I'm surprised you've brushed over the 4th difference, the boilers, as dual boilers vs HX is one of the larger reasons for the price gap between the two and should be a big deciding factor for anyone considering choosing between these two machines, at least imo. It's also the reason behind the steaming power difference you noted.
@@thinkertinkering3853 So there are two sections of the video on the pump difference but too much to expect something on the boiler difference; the main internals of the machine? I compared these exact two machines a year ago and the deciding factor to go with the Bianca was the dual boiler. I assumed the point of the video was to help folks make their mind up when choosing between the two and the cost/benefit of the differences.
I agree with you, the most important difference is the dual boiler, it gives you a much more stable temperature, which and up to better shot if you know what you are doing with the machine. I’ve owned a Rocket Cellini which is an HX, then an R58 which is duaboiler, and finally a GS3 which is obviously a dual boiler but with a saturated group. Saying that upgrading to something more than a Bianco is imo totally wrong, temperature stability is key for great extraction, and I simply never had the shot quality that I have on my GS3 on my previous machines. Also a thing REALLY important to consider is the water, you should at least use distilled water with Third Wave Water or Perfect Coffee Water, or do your own blend, but trust me, it will change everything. That could be a great topic for you to talk about in a video. Cheers!
I think a heat exchanger is actually more difficult to use especially for a newb, dual boiler you set the temp and you get pretty consistent temp, with a HX you never know what you're getting. No need to do cooling flushes. IF you do get an Apartamento or similar E61 HX machine, definitely go for the brew group temp gauge mod, it's inexpensive and will help you learn quicker what temperature your water is coming through at!
Another video by Xris lets goo! It's really nice seeing your face from time to time! Great video, great machines, great watch, great research, great color grading (even tho you missed the last few seconds at 12:08 lol) I enjoyed the comparison. Looking forward to hearing what your favorite flow or pressure recipes are. Thank you for sharing!
3:28 the bit about the scale not sliding on lelit is really arbitrary. for those of you who don't know, that acaia scale comes with protective strips that you stick on yourself, either on the sides vertically, or on the top and bottom horizontally. if the assessment of a drip tray changes depending on your choice of where to stick the protective strips, not sure if it's useful at all.
And the winner is Bezzera Aria😄. The price is spot on, and it is a better choice. Dual bolier, total control of the preinfusion and the extraction , compact in size, excellent creamy coffe (if done right), can be used with the internal tank or plumbed, you can choose the PID version or basic version (without PID). What else? I am shocked that there are no reviews about it on YT. it's a beautiful and effective machine.
Thank you for the detailed reviews! I'm shopping around for what machine to upgrade to and I love the look of the Appartmento more than everything else near that price point, but r/espresso makes it out like it's a hunk of junk that always breaks which was discouraging given the price point and popularity. These videos offered helpful feedback to consider in my upgrades :)
Bianca is just way overpriced here in the US. In my country, it sells around only 15500 RMB (less than 2300 dollars) after tax. So again, Bianca is a very good machine but does not belong to the 3000 dollar price range. If you live in US, you are paying to get this machine Edit: I'm talking about Bianca V3, the most recent model, please don't say it sells cheap in other countries because it's V2 or V1. It's the latest model. And according to Reddit, in German, Bianca v2 is sold at 1799€ (1,830 dollars)
Is it possible to buy one on Germany and ship it home to the US? Or - if one happens to be on vacation in Germany - buy one - and bring it home on the airline without paying some huge tax at customs???
Yeah, I don't see myself ever buying a Bianca V3 when the Profitek Pro 600 is available for $2,400. It has all the same features except for the automation.
@@hokie85ee eu has different plugs than US... Also there is possibly other differences in the Powerlines (Watt and Volt) It usually not possible to use Electronic maschines which were prepared for the european household in the US or the other way around...
I like Lelit however their own retailer doesn’t recommend because of build quality. Another owner says he never uses flow control. Local Italian retailer said temp stability is the key to good espresso.
Fun fact: The flow paddle doesn’t actually adjust the pressure of the water coming out of the machine, it only adjusts the flow (volume) being pushed through the puck.
I’m curious - If you were to do try and do an espresso trailer for parties/weddings. Which would you recommend? Or what do most people buy? Dual boiler or heat exchange?
100% agree. You will enjoy the machine longer with the PID. I went through this same decision point 3 years ago. I ended up with the Anna's big sister, Glenda, for a few hundred dollars more and love it. But - - think an Anna would be just as nice.
This isn’t actually true unfortunately. That only works with a rotary pump, which isn’t available on the Appartamento. If you were to step up to the Mozzafiato/Giotto, the vibratory pump versions also cannot pre-infuse, while the rotary pump can.
what does anyone here think about the idea of a great lever machine for 1/2 the price of the Bianca? Something like a La Pavoni or Elektra, Ponte Vecchio, or even in the same price bracket as a Bianca with the Quick Mill? Seems to me the Bianca is a great machine; the appeal perhaps is mostly flow control with the paddle as other machines in this price have dual boiler and pid. However, going the lever route gives even more control arguably than the paddle on a Bianca right? A La Pavoni new can be had for about $1,400 which is 1/3rd the price of the Bianca. What am I missing? Is it a simple manner of some not wanting to do everything with the shot manually and the Bianca positioning itself as an automatic with flow control using the paddle? Is that worth 3 times more the price?
Speaking of lever machines, the Flair58 is like $500 and gives you full flow control. With the built-in heating element you don't have the bother of the pre-heating workflow needed for previous Flair models. Paired with a good pouring kettle you can have temperature control too. IMO the Flair58 offers the best price performance of any setup- if you are willing to trade in the consistency of a machine. As a bonus it is easy to put away to save counter space too.
The Rocket sits in a bit of a weird place for me - it's an expensive machine that's still a heat exchanger, lacks many of the higher-end features, needs modification straight out of the box, etc. I either go for something cheap, adequate and/or modifiable or straight to something that's like the Bianca - truly high-end, properly built, feature-rich, offering precise control and consistency. I'd rather be held back by my 200 or 400$ machine than my 1800$ machine. It just doesn't make sense to me. I would much rather get the Breville/Sage Dual Boiler for half the price (or 1/4 the price if buying used) if budget is a thing.
Have you ever found a way to make the temperature surfing on the Appartamento less annoying? Mine idles way too hot so I always need to flush at least 300-400 millilitres..
I had to contact Rocket support about this because it was also overheating and tripping the shut off. Basically I just had to swap out the pressure switch and RC filter and it seemed to do the trick. The old switch was round and the new one is squared. I do still notice minor temp surfing but not nearly as bad. Much more stable now. Rocket support was very helpful.
Thanks for the review! really enjoyable I have been looking into getting a Rocket apartmento but have since discovered the likes of the Bianca and the profitec 400. Would you be able to give any advice on which machines build quality is going to out last and in general the best option for a beginner to buy? (I'd prefer to buy a machine once than need to upgrade in a year or two)
I found it weird that you didn't mention the Decent at 11:00. It's about the same price point and can do things that the Bianca can't. Not saying either one is better (each has pros and cons), but saying there aren't better machines than the Bianca at this price point isn't very accurate in my opinion.
That's a good point - I feel like the Decent is a very niche machine still with a small support group versus larger companies like Rocket or Lelit, but that's just my own opinion. The Decent would be a wonderful machine I'm sure!
After much (by that I mean borderline obsessive levels of) research into which espresso machine I wanted to upgrade to, from my really cheap crappy one, I decided on the Lelit Bianca. As someone who is really just a beginner (after years of not understanding the limitations of my crappy machine) part of this decision was about choosing a machine that I wouldn’t likely be wanting to upgrade again from in a few years, once I’ve learned a lot more, and I think the Bianca not only fits the bill but is pretty much unmatched in it’s price bracket for the level of features it has - I would have to spend a substantial amount more on something like the Profitek Pro 700 and then further cost to add flow control. However one BIG point that really sold the flow control to me (which many overlook in reviews) is that as a beginner it gives you the ability to kind of ‘rescue’ a shot that would otherwise pour too quickly and under extract (which I’ve done way too many times and no doubt will when experimenting in future)
There are more options than just the Bianca at that price point and below. The Profitec 700 has all the same features and superior build quality. Or there is the 600 dual boiler variant that is the vibratory pump version which saves a ton of money if you don’t need the option of plumbing in with a rotary pump.
In Europe at least it makes little to no sense from a features standpoint to buy those machines. The bianca can be easily found in Europe for 1.9k, while those two machines you mention easily exceed the 2k, one of them without flow control and the vibe pump. I can see why in the states it would be a trickier decision between the pro600 and the bianca, although even in that case, if you wanted flow control you'd get near Bianca pricing, but with a vibe pump, which tbh is completely fine. I guess that I think that the "superior build quality" is just a luxury thing that really doesn't affect the usability or the reliability of the machine, and therefore can't really understand why people would pony up more money for same or less features.
Hi Xris. Just wondering about using the Lelit in a small commercial space. I've spoken to retailers who have told me that these machines are good for long term use and will need a lot of maintenance. Would you find this to be true? If so, what would you recommend for a commercial machine with one group head?
Let me share some of my thoughts. This kind of E61 machines are not convenient in commercial environment. 1. The stainless steel casing will drive you crazy. You will need to clean it frequency. 2. The volume of drip tray is too small, unless you drill a hole are connect it with a pipe. 4. They are not volumetric. You will find volumetric is very helpful in commercial setting. In imo, simple hx machine is not a problem in commercial setting. As said, volumetric is more important. There I suggest you yo think about machine like Nuova Simonelli Appia Life, Sanremo Zoe.
Was waiting for this video! Do you steam on Bianca with 2 holes or 4? I've swiched from 2 to 4 and i m really strugling to make microfoam, was wondering if you experienced anything like that?
yes! big difference - helps with clean group heads and even water dispersion for better extraction (I also sell them so I'm a little bias) - if interested be sure to visit my etsy store! (etsy.com/shop/mochamondaysbyxris)
I really love the channel. What do you recommend as a great starter setup? I'm thinking breville bambino plus 1zpresso jmax to get my feet wet. Then I can upgrade the bambino down the line, and the grinder further down the line. Would that be a decent starting point?
Thanks for the review, I'm currently in the market of purchasing an espresso machine. I watched tons of videos on comparisons between some of the brand names in espresso machines. I really liked the looks of these E61 machines, however the turn off was the heat up time. Most are heat exchanger machines but the Lelit being a dual boiler machine, doesn't that speed up the heating process? The dual boiler machines like Breville dual boiler and the Oracle Touch with dual boilers was said to have heated up water pretty quickly. Any advice is appreciated.
I’ve been a coffee blogger for 7 years and I occasionally get coffee sent at no charge. You’re getting $3000+ espresso machines sent for free??? I’m using the wrong medium! In fact after paying for my website hosting, I lose money every year lOl I suck
Sounds like you’re asking how much time he lets it warm up. I have a Rocket Mozzafiato with vibratory pump similar to the Appartamento, and while the boiler will get up to pressure in 15-20 minutes, you really want to let it warm up for about 30 minutes so the group head can also get up to temp.
But is it worth 1300 dollars extra. Flow control can be put on rock temp gauge can be put on a rocket. But. You need a pid. I still think lelit is overpriced. That’s just my opinion.
I feel like if you're gonna pay 3k for a machine, the Decent is the clear choice. You can do all the PID and flow control stuff on the Decent, but way better and more repeatably.
Problem with espresso machines is that they are also centerpieces of your coffee bar/kitchen. I can see that many people wouldn't want such a futuristic device with a tablet on top as their main espresso maker for that reason alone.
I fear when Decent goes out of business you will have a machine that is run by software that has no support when it fails. I need a machine anyone can fix.
I would like to begin by saying I really enjoyed your video. I also like your sense of style with regards to your coffee bar setup. I was surprised that you needed to do a Google search to explain the difference between a vibratory pump and a rotary pump. The Google definitions were so superficial compared to the differences in a practical day-to-day basis. That being said, I look forward to seeing other videos from you. And I would love to know where you got your coffee bar piece of furniture. It's one of the nicest I've ever seen.
I actually want to get the bianca , i already have the marax. But i only got 1 question for u? MOST people review this machine fail to talk about. If they do maybe ,many people dont want to buy. Do you really your actually brew temperature ? So far lelit have done finally with a proper scace device only on marax. Lelit has tested it with other scace device but finally they bought the real scace device i mean the original one. I think is called scace 2. After the test it shows that tge group head thermometer does not measure tge actually brew temperature , the scace measure 1.5 degress celcius less then the group head Thermometer. So this mean we have to add 1.5 degree celcius to the group head thermometer. That mean i been brewing a lower temperature . So far only 1 reviewer did the test with the original scace . A german reviewer can really understand but look watch the video , i understand alot. Just for your info . Great u tube 👍
you're aware that distribution does nothing, zero, to the puc. If you wdt you're already doing both removing clumps and distributing coffee around ready to be tamped.
Wow, that's a noisy rotary pump machine (Bianca). I have a rotary pump E61 machine (heat exchanger, not dual) and it's super quiet compared to that. Adding flow control to the Apartmento is cheap to do. Only about $200. The real difference is the dual boilers. Only duals have true temperature control.
Yep...I agree. That Bianca must have had some panelwork vibrating somewhere. I have a V3 Bianca and the first thing I noticed after upgrading from a vib pump hx machine was how much quieter it is. The sound bite in the video didn't do it justice at all.
Awesome videos! What distributer do you recommend for Rocket What tamp do you recommend for the rocket? What portafilter do you recommend for the rocket? Sorry for all the questions but you definitely know your stuff!!
I always like the vids where thousands of dollars are spent on machines, equipment, toys, gadgets, fine tuning scales and stopwatches and organic coffee; then, after precisely pulling the perfect shot into a perfect espresso cup they pour in hot foaming milk, diluting the coffee, changing its texture and taste.
IMHO the Lelit Bianca V3 is super overrated. It's suffocatingly small, and also looks cheaply made. Compared to similar E61 espresso machines, the Lelit is about 10 pounds lighter. And most importantly, the max flow rate the machine is capable of is 7g/s. A $400 Gaggia Classic can get you that type of flow rate. A Profitec Drive and/or ECM Synchronika has a stock flow rate of 11g/s. And with the flow control knob you can get up to 25g/s in either one of those machines. That's much closer to commercially rated machines. The Lelit Bianca has too weak of a rotary pump, and flimsy build quality for a $3K espresso machine.
I'm surprised you've brushed over the 4th difference, the boilers, as dual boilers vs HX is one of the larger reasons for the price gap between the two and should be a big deciding factor for anyone considering choosing between these two machines, at least imo. It's also the reason behind the steaming power difference you noted.
Seriously, you're expecting too much out of a casual level espresso enthusiast TH-camr
ouch
yes! i knew that was the reason behind the steaming power but perhaps i did glance over that aspect a bit 😅
@@thinkertinkering3853 So there are two sections of the video on the pump difference but too much to expect something on the boiler difference; the main internals of the machine? I compared these exact two machines a year ago and the deciding factor to go with the Bianca was the dual boiler. I assumed the point of the video was to help folks make their mind up when choosing between the two and the cost/benefit of the differences.
I agree with you, the most important difference is the dual boiler, it gives you a much more stable temperature, which and up to better shot if you know what you are doing with the machine.
I’ve owned a Rocket Cellini which is an HX, then an R58 which is duaboiler, and finally a GS3 which is obviously a dual boiler but with a saturated group. Saying that upgrading to something more than a Bianco is imo totally wrong, temperature stability is key for great extraction, and I simply never had the shot quality that I have on my GS3 on my previous machines.
Also a thing REALLY important to consider is the water, you should at least use distilled water with Third Wave Water or Perfect Coffee Water, or do your own blend, but trust me, it will change everything. That could be a great topic for you to talk about in a video.
Cheers!
Lelit Bianca cost more than $4000 in Canada.....
I think a heat exchanger is actually more difficult to use especially for a newb, dual boiler you set the temp and you get pretty consistent temp, with a HX you never know what you're getting. No need to do cooling flushes. IF you do get an Apartamento or similar E61 HX machine, definitely go for the brew group temp gauge mod, it's inexpensive and will help you learn quicker what temperature your water is coming through at!
For a big price though. More maintenance etc
@@Maybaby1959 single boiler or lever machine is even simpler. Dual boiler isn't that much more complicated than hx it's just a single boiler x2
@@BensCoffeeRants Single boiler + Saturated Grouphead + PID = best
Another video by Xris lets goo! It's really nice seeing your face from time to time!
Great video, great machines, great watch, great research, great color grading (even tho you missed the last few seconds at 12:08 lol)
I enjoyed the comparison. Looking forward to hearing what your favorite flow or pressure recipes are.
Thank you for sharing!
3:28 the bit about the scale not sliding on lelit is really arbitrary. for those of you who don't know, that acaia scale comes with protective strips that you stick on yourself, either on the sides vertically, or on the top and bottom horizontally. if the assessment of a drip tray changes depending on your choice of where to stick the protective strips, not sure if it's useful at all.
And the winner is Bezzera Aria😄. The price is spot on, and it is a better choice. Dual bolier, total control of the preinfusion and the extraction , compact in size, excellent creamy coffe (if done right), can be used with the internal tank or plumbed, you can choose the PID version or basic version (without PID). What else? I am shocked that there are no reviews about it on YT. it's a beautiful and effective machine.
Hello - curious if you have the Aria and what you think of it? Today I do see some good videos on it. Appears to be a game changer.
Maybe a better choice then the Rocket but certainly not better that the Bianca
Thank you for the detailed reviews! I'm shopping around for what machine to upgrade to and I love the look of the Appartmento more than everything else near that price point, but r/espresso makes it out like it's a hunk of junk that always breaks which was discouraging given the price point and popularity. These videos offered helpful feedback to consider in my upgrades :)
Keen to see Apartmento vs MaraX - seem to be in same class / profile range.
Bianca is just way overpriced here in the US. In my country, it sells around only 15500 RMB (less than 2300 dollars) after tax. So again, Bianca is a very good machine but does not belong to the 3000 dollar price range. If you live in US, you are paying to get this machine
Edit: I'm talking about Bianca V3, the most recent model, please don't say it sells cheap in other countries because it's V2 or V1. It's the latest model. And according to Reddit, in German, Bianca v2 is sold at 1799€ (1,830 dollars)
Is it possible to buy one on Germany and ship it home to the US? Or - if one happens to be on vacation in Germany - buy one - and bring it home on the airline without paying some huge tax at customs???
Yeah, I don't see myself ever buying a Bianca V3 when the Profitek Pro 600 is available for $2,400. It has all the same features except for the automation.
@@hokie85ee eu has different plugs than US... Also there is possibly other differences in the Powerlines (Watt and Volt) It usually not possible to use Electronic maschines which were prepared for the european household in the US or the other way around...
I like Lelit however their own retailer doesn’t recommend because of build quality. Another owner says he never uses flow control. Local Italian retailer said temp stability is the key to good espresso.
Fun fact: The flow paddle doesn’t actually adjust the pressure of the water coming out of the machine, it only adjusts the flow (volume) being pushed through the puck.
Could you also do Lelit Bianca vs Flair 58!
Potentially!
I would also be interested in that comparison!
@@itsxris What is better the flair 58 or the Bianca for espresso, Thanks
Would love to know to!
Great review!
I’m curious - If you were to do try and do an espresso trailer for parties/weddings. Which would you recommend? Or what do most people buy? Dual boiler or heat exchange?
What about the Flair 58 vs the Bianca? Thanks
what do you think about rocket appartemento tca vs bianca?
Definitely going to need to pickup one of those smart plugs!
Very cool video, many thanks. I am always curious as to how the Bianca performs: I’ve got my eye on it, from afar at this stage :)
Serie nera has a metal cup rack and an insulated steam wand as the regular appartamento does not.
Nice video! The pid availability is the one reason why I'm considering the lelit Anna over the Silvia.
100% agree. You will enjoy the machine longer with the PID. I went through this same decision point 3 years ago. I ended up with the Anna's big sister, Glenda, for a few hundred dollars more and love it. But - - think an Anna would be just as nice.
Yo yo the rocket appartamento has preinfusion. You just turn the level 45 degrees.
This isn’t actually true unfortunately. That only works with a rotary pump, which isn’t available on the Appartamento. If you were to step up to the Mozzafiato/Giotto, the vibratory pump versions also cannot pre-infuse, while the rotary pump can.
what does anyone here think about the idea of a great lever machine for 1/2 the price of the Bianca? Something like a La Pavoni or Elektra, Ponte Vecchio, or even in the same price bracket as a Bianca with the Quick Mill? Seems to me the Bianca is a great machine; the appeal perhaps is mostly flow control with the paddle as other machines in this price have dual boiler and pid. However, going the lever route gives even more control arguably than the paddle on a Bianca right? A La Pavoni new can be had for about $1,400 which is 1/3rd the price of the Bianca. What am I missing? Is it a simple manner of some not wanting to do everything with the shot manually and the Bianca positioning itself as an automatic with flow control using the paddle? Is that worth 3 times more the price?
Speaking of lever machines, the Flair58 is like $500 and gives you full flow control. With the built-in heating element you don't have the bother of the pre-heating workflow needed for previous Flair models. Paired with a good pouring kettle you can have temperature control too. IMO the Flair58 offers the best price performance of any setup- if you are willing to trade in the consistency of a machine. As a bonus it is easy to put away to save counter space too.
Looking forward to some workflow Wednesdays with the bianca. Im sure you could do several with different flow profiles
Rocket has pre-infusion also.
Nice video! Good middle ground is the Profitec pro500 with flow control added. HX is just fine for pulling 3-5 back to back milk drinks.
no HX machines could do 2-3 back to back shots.
@@calvintran8691 Why not.. By the time you clean the portafilter and refill and tamp the pressure has long recovered
The Rocket sits in a bit of a weird place for me - it's an expensive machine that's still a heat exchanger, lacks many of the higher-end features, needs modification straight out of the box, etc. I either go for something cheap, adequate and/or modifiable or straight to something that's like the Bianca - truly high-end, properly built, feature-rich, offering precise control and consistency. I'd rather be held back by my 200 or 400$ machine than my 1800$ machine. It just doesn't make sense to me. I would much rather get the Breville/Sage Dual Boiler for half the price (or 1/4 the price if buying used) if budget is a thing.
Exactly the video that I needed :) Nice Panerai btw!
Can the Lelit’s flow control knob and mains be installed on the Rocket?
Have you ever found a way to make the temperature surfing on the Appartamento less annoying? Mine idles way too hot so I always need to flush at least 300-400 millilitres..
using a temperature gauge to monitor temps via cooling flushes, may still use a lot of water but at least it'll tell you the estimated temperature
I had to contact Rocket support about this because it was also overheating and tripping the shut off. Basically I just had to swap out the pressure switch and RC filter and it seemed to do the trick. The old switch was round and the new one is squared. I do still notice minor temp surfing but not nearly as bad. Much more stable now. Rocket support was very helpful.
So witch is the best?
Thanks for the review! really enjoyable
I have been looking into getting a Rocket apartmento but have since discovered the likes of the Bianca and the profitec 400. Would you be able to give any advice on which machines build quality is going to out last and in general the best option for a beginner to buy? (I'd prefer to buy a machine once than need to upgrade in a year or two)
Look into the Decent machines if you want something to upgrade to after the Bianca :D
I found it weird that you didn't mention the Decent at 11:00. It's about the same price point and can do things that the Bianca can't. Not saying either one is better (each has pros and cons), but saying there aren't better machines than the Bianca at this price point isn't very accurate in my opinion.
That's a good point - I feel like the Decent is a very niche machine still with a small support group versus larger companies like Rocket or Lelit, but that's just my own opinion. The Decent would be a wonderful machine I'm sure!
The Decent is a fair bit more overall.
But yeah it's significantly better imo
How would you compare the Bianca to a ECM (Elektronika)?
how are these copared to the "LA MARZOCCO li mini"?
After much (by that I mean borderline obsessive levels of) research into which espresso machine I wanted to upgrade to, from my really cheap crappy one, I decided on the Lelit Bianca. As someone who is really just a beginner (after years of not understanding the limitations of my crappy machine) part of this decision was about choosing a machine that I wouldn’t likely be wanting to upgrade again from in a few years, once I’ve learned a lot more, and I think the Bianca not only fits the bill but is pretty much unmatched in it’s price bracket for the level of features it has - I would have to spend a substantial amount more on something like the Profitek Pro 700 and then further cost to add flow control. However one BIG point that really sold the flow control to me (which many overlook in reviews) is that as a beginner it gives you the ability to kind of ‘rescue’ a shot that would otherwise pour too quickly and under extract (which I’ve done way too many times and no doubt will when experimenting in future)
i miiiiiight be able to snag the pp700 to compare soon!
this is Biance V1 ! not 2
There are more options than just the Bianca at that price point and below. The Profitec 700 has all the same features and superior build quality. Or there is the 600 dual boiler variant that is the vibratory pump version which saves a ton of money if you don’t need the option of plumbing in with a rotary pump.
In Europe at least it makes little to no sense from a features standpoint to buy those machines. The bianca can be easily found in Europe for 1.9k, while those two machines you mention easily exceed the 2k, one of them without flow control and the vibe pump.
I can see why in the states it would be a trickier decision between the pro600 and the bianca, although even in that case, if you wanted flow control you'd get near Bianca pricing, but with a vibe pump, which tbh is completely fine. I guess that I think that the "superior build quality" is just a luxury thing that really doesn't affect the usability or the reliability of the machine, and therefore can't really understand why people would pony up more money for same or less features.
good mentions - I'd love to test one of those options someday!
Profitec has worse flow control though.
But you can do a preinfusion on appartamento Xris🤨
How about the power consumption of this machine. Since it is a dual boiler i assume much more power needed to heat up
I'm looking to upgrade my bezzera bz07, what machine should I be looking at?
Hi Xris. Just wondering about using the Lelit in a small commercial space. I've spoken to retailers who have told me that these machines are good for long term use and will need a lot of maintenance. Would you find this to be true? If so, what would you recommend for a commercial machine with one group head?
Let me share some of my thoughts. This kind of E61 machines are not convenient in commercial environment.
1. The stainless steel casing will drive you crazy. You will need to clean it frequency.
2. The volume of drip tray is too small, unless you drill a hole are connect it with a pipe.
4. They are not volumetric. You will find volumetric is very helpful in commercial setting.
In imo, simple hx machine is not a problem in commercial setting. As said, volumetric is more important. There I suggest you yo think about machine like Nuova Simonelli Appia Life, Sanremo Zoe.
Thank you for the nice videos. What smart plug are you using? Thanks
link in description!
Very nice and professional comparison 😊
Was waiting for this video! Do you steam on Bianca with 2 holes or 4? I've swiched from 2 to 4 and i m really strugling to make microfoam, was wondering if you experienced anything like that?
I found that as well, and 2 holes is too slow, I ended up getting a 3 hole tip.
Hey! What is the smart plug that you have your machines hooked up to? Do you like it?
linked in description! love em
@@itsxris have you had any issues with the 15A rating on the plug? do they sell 20A versions?
Thoughts on the puck screen. I’ve not been using one though my machine has a pre-infusion. Doesn’t it make any difference?
yes! big difference - helps with clean group heads and even water dispersion for better extraction (I also sell them so I'm a little bias) - if interested be sure to visit my etsy store! (etsy.com/shop/mochamondaysbyxris)
I really love the channel. What do you recommend as a great starter setup? I'm thinking breville bambino plus 1zpresso jmax to get my feet wet. Then I can upgrade the bambino down the line, and the grinder further down the line. Would that be a decent starting point?
that would be solid!
Bianca vs Breville Dual Boiler ? BDB price seems to be rising like crazy ~ 2500 cad here.
Thanks for the review, I'm currently in the market of purchasing an espresso machine. I watched tons of videos on comparisons between some of the brand names in espresso machines. I really liked the looks of these E61 machines, however the turn off was the heat up time. Most are heat exchanger machines but the Lelit being a dual boiler machine, doesn't that speed up the heating process? The dual boiler machines like Breville dual boiler and the Oracle Touch with dual boilers was said to have heated up water pretty quickly. Any advice is appreciated.
it heats up fast enough id say, id go for the bianca ;)
@@itsxris yeah...on the verge of pulling the trigger
@andrew chan hi Andrew!
Thanks for these videos,
Any recommendations for a coffee machine to start a new coffee shop with?
Appreciated
In Germany the price of the Lelit is just 300€ more but not that much...
I’ve been a coffee blogger for 7 years and I occasionally get coffee sent at no charge. You’re getting $3000+ espresso machines sent for free??? I’m using the wrong medium! In fact after paying for my website hosting, I lose money every year lOl I suck
Could you tell how much time you leave the Appartamento for heating up in the morning before you use it?
using a smart plug, yes
Sounds like you’re asking how much time he lets it warm up. I have a Rocket Mozzafiato with vibratory pump similar to the Appartamento, and while the boiler will get up to pressure in 15-20 minutes, you really want to let it warm up for about 30 minutes so the group head can also get up to temp.
@@mfaj7 Thanks Mark! That was indeed what I wanted to know. 🙂
Plus you can plum on R
No you can’t plumb a vibe pump machine.
Excellent review
Got a open-box bianca v2 in a local ship near me for $2,500. couldn't be happier :P
PID, dual boiler, flow control, rotary pump and cheaper. Its enough for me to conclude.
But is it worth 1300 dollars extra. Flow control can be put on rock temp gauge can be put on a rocket. But. You need a pid. I still think lelit is overpriced. That’s just my opinion.
I feel like if you're gonna pay 3k for a machine, the Decent is the clear choice. You can do all the PID and flow control stuff on the Decent, but way better and more repeatably.
Problem with espresso machines is that they are also centerpieces of your coffee bar/kitchen.
I can see that many people wouldn't want such a futuristic device with a tablet on top as their main espresso maker for that reason alone.
I fear when Decent goes out of business you will have a machine that is run by software that has no support when it fails. I need a machine anyone can fix.
Too much electronics. It will be a nightmare in repairs.
I would like to begin by saying I really enjoyed your video. I also like your sense of style with regards to your coffee bar setup. I was surprised that you needed to do a Google search to explain the difference between a vibratory pump and a rotary pump. The Google definitions were so superficial compared to the differences in a practical day-to-day basis. That being said, I look forward to seeing other videos from you. And I would love to know where you got your coffee bar piece of furniture. It's one of the nicest I've ever seen.
appreciate the feedback! its called the render sideboard by modway
Dual boiler, PID, Flow Control, Rotary Pump...
Like comparing apple with lemon...
I actually want to get the bianca , i already have the marax. But i only got 1 question for u? MOST people review this machine fail to talk about. If they do maybe ,many people dont want to buy. Do you really your actually brew temperature ? So far lelit have done finally with a proper scace device only on marax. Lelit has tested it with other scace device but finally they bought the real scace device i mean the original one. I think is called scace 2. After the test it shows that tge group head thermometer does not measure tge actually brew temperature , the scace measure 1.5 degress celcius less then the group head Thermometer. So this mean we have to add 1.5 degree celcius to the group head thermometer. That mean i been brewing a lower temperature . So far only 1 reviewer did the test with the original scace . A german reviewer can really understand but look watch the video , i understand alot. Just for your info . Great u tube 👍
You would have to calibrate it with a scace to get 100% accurate brew temp displayed. It can be done, the boiler:displayed temp offset is adjustable.
you're aware that distribution does nothing, zero, to the puc. If you wdt you're already doing both removing clumps and distributing coffee around ready to be tamped.
Lelit Bianca and Rocket Appartamento it doesn't cost $3,000, but also about $1,700
Flow control alone crushes the rocket, the possibilities are endless.
Jah what machine do you have ??
Great video! Do the DECENT DE1 pro next! haha
I don't think the Bianca costs that much. I got mine last year for around $1800.
Wow, that's a noisy rotary pump machine (Bianca). I have a rotary pump E61 machine (heat exchanger, not dual) and it's super quiet compared to that. Adding flow control to the Apartmento is cheap to do. Only about $200. The real difference is the dual boilers. Only duals have true temperature control.
Yep...I agree. That Bianca must have had some panelwork vibrating somewhere. I have a V3 Bianca and the first thing I noticed after upgrading from a vib pump hx machine was how much quieter it is. The sound bite in the video didn't do it justice at all.
Buy an ECM machine. German engineering, Italian flair, always the best
Nice comparison though I think you spent needless effort explaining things like prep workflow, preinfusion, etc. that isn’t part of the comparison
1st place goes to ecm synchronika
Not with it’s me too, box ticking functional awful flow control.
Awesome video dude. I'd love to pick up a Bianca, and it's one of the few machines that in Japan isn't insanely overpriced.
rocket no doubt about it !!
Awesome videos!
What distributer do you recommend for Rocket
What tamp do you recommend for the rocket?
What portafilter do you recommend for the rocket?
Sorry for all the questions but you definitely know your stuff!!
"However I dont have to lube any of the machine knobs"... teeheehee hee
So buy this one
Apples and oranges
かっこいい！ Wow‼ It's a nice video, I also watched past videos. thank you . from Japan
Yayyyyyyyyy....two more machines I can't afford
I don't know the reason why you are comparing Appartamento with Bianca. It is more comparable to Mara in range of price and features.
Lubing knobs is a productive use of time….
I always like the vids where thousands of dollars are spent on machines, equipment, toys, gadgets, fine tuning scales and stopwatches and organic coffee; then, after precisely pulling the perfect shot into a perfect espresso cup they pour in hot foaming milk, diluting the coffee, changing its texture and taste.
I too, enjoy those vids. Don't gatekeep coffee preferences ;)
Dang…that’s a nice portafilter
💯
I like your review, ideally you want to focus more on the machine than your face, after all this is about the machine.
hey guess what? the youtube channel is called Xris. guess what else? my name is Xris.
A month Ok. That is a quick disclaimer fast talking low patience doode
IMHO the Lelit Bianca V3 is super overrated. It's suffocatingly small, and also looks cheaply made. Compared to similar E61 espresso machines, the Lelit is about 10 pounds lighter. And most importantly, the max flow rate the machine is capable of is 7g/s. A $400 Gaggia Classic can get you that type of flow rate. A Profitec Drive and/or ECM Synchronika has a stock flow rate of 11g/s. And with the flow control knob you can get up to 25g/s in either one of those machines. That's much closer to commercially rated machines. The Lelit Bianca has too weak of a rotary pump, and flimsy build quality for a $3K espresso machine.
ECM Synchronika is significantly better than these imo. Better build , power , and aesthetically superior.
What do you mean by power? Both machines have their positives and negatives.
😂.
Rocket price after 6 years including repair service $6000
Lelit is cheap quality. I would avoid
Not true, they have cut costs in some smart places to hit a price point sure. They have put the budget where it counts.
Non technical. Waste of time