Masculine and feminine buckets?!? (Gender Debate)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
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In any debate about trans inidividuals… the moment someone brings up “masculinity and femininity” ask them how do we empirically measure what is masculine and what is feminine.
Exactly. If definitions of gender were so determinate, then why do people always have insecurities about their masculinity and femininity in the first place?
Listening to this guy talking about kids "Choosing" to need gender affirming care sounds like someone blaming a kid for getting cancer and forcing their parents to choose to give a minor chemotherapy.
Dude's like those parents who think every action of a child is a choice.
"Why did you choose to have an outburst like that?"
"Why did you choose to have bad grades?"
All that stuff and they physically cannot think about the possible underlying causes of issues in their life
Cis entitlement on full display.
You will NEVER know what’s in my pants unless I tell you. And I’ll never tell you unless I feel I can trust you.
@@shahbazilyas576 in a perfect world, which this is not
@shahbazilyas576 the problem is you have no genitalia. The person going to bed with you isn't obligated to know what's in someone's pants. A woman having a dick isn't thought of as as horrific as a dude having a mangled crotch. If the partner doesn't like penis on a woman or vagina on a man, then that's their preference and they can just not have sex
Caller doesn't have an intention to learn. Doesn't even try to be informed after Jovan tried to teach and educate. I wish I had the patience of Jovan
Guess his metaphor didn't really hold water.
DAM! Wait-
Holy shit.
@@TEETHHHHH lol go sit in the corner 😂
Ba-dum tishhh
😂
I get seizures from my epilepsy. Should I not take meds so my body can naturally go thru regularly having seizures? People are fucking dumb
There's an incredibly small number of people I've seen naked, and there's a slightly larger number of people whose sex-related chromosomes I know about, thanks to biology classes. It's much easier to trust what people say about themselves, honestly.
How DARE you TRICK ME into finding you ATTRACTIVE! You are TRICKING people just by EXISTING! 🙄 his argument basically...... But at the same time "We can always tell" 🙄🙄
The “yo momma” didn’t hit the way he wanted it to
Exactly, because what if Jovan's mom has an intersex condition, that still allowed her to give birth? What if, transphobes?
It was pretty cringe 😂
It hit a bit better than his definition of "female" "A female is someone who was born female"
Absolutely not, but damn was Jovan's silence after that so much more impactful😂
i love how he starts by saying some people just don’t want to have their mind changed or whatever and then goes on to be just as stubborn and annoying as anyone with these opinions
Transphobe:
"There are only two options of ice cream"
Waiter:
"Sir, we offer more than two kinds of ice-cream. What will it be?"
Transphobe:
"TWO!! THERE ONLY EXIST TWO!!"
I never understood when transphobes say "there's only 2 genders" MOST trans ppl aren't claiming there are more than 2, they're just saying, socially, they wanna live as the one opposite from the one they were assigned at birth
"At the end of the day there is only two and at the end of the day you know that there are only two. Only two." - well, guess it must be true then
Where the hell was he even going with that metaphor. Javon congratulations on having that amount of patience because you had a better chance debating a brick wall.
Oh that ending was pure brilliance 🤣
The way transphobic people, specifically cis-het men, always bring up the idea of being “tricked” or “led on” by a trans person is so…interesting to me. I don’t know where it stems from but I feel like it’s always the example at the tip of their tongue.
i feel like it’s internalized homophobia, they cannot allow themselves to be attracted to transwomen because they think we’re men. when we’re not. these cis-het men will not heal until they let go of the homophobic shit their dads and uncles spewed growing up
They run under the assumption that all women are cis, and they get angry at the idea of having to think about it
@@analogicparadox *they get angry about having to think in general 👍
@@TEETHHHHHAnd the more questions you ask, the more frustrated and stuck in their bigotry they get because god forbid their neurons start firing in their brain for even one second.
@@kianaolive cis het men are often socialized to think that everything revolves around their identity. they see femininity as a performance put on to attract cis het men, not as a natural way of being or a performance done for other women. so when they see a trans girl being feminine, they assume it’s also a performance for men.
they think the only value in femininity is in how it attracts and serves men.
“you just wanna do the word play stuff” it’s almost like the convo is about how words are used and what they mean.
Lmfaoooo Jovan did somethung ive always wanted to do at the end there
The ending though 😂😂
Starting on the whole "buckets" bs almost broke me
Man really started out by saying “we live in a society”
The best part of this video 46:49
Gotta love the cognitive dissonance to deny homophobia to a “simple disagreement”
Jovan is so patient, damn, I was almost throwing my phone at the wall.
Caller keeps complaining about "the wordplay game" they're supposedly doing despite the fact that he argues how trans people are by definition not the gender they identify as🤦♂️
Im more baffled with what he considers and adult female or properly ca0able of holding children
Thank you Jovan ❤
The part where they're talking about healthcare for trans kids is instructive; and the caller inadvertently demonstrates the whole bigot position: according to them the kid can't choose because their brain hasn't developed, but when J suggests it's the parents making the decision he responds by saying they shouldn't force it on the kid. So who can make the decision? No one according to bigots, because despite whatever equivocal language they wrap it up in they do not think ANYONE should be allowed to transition.
Can you imagine if we applied this impossible standard to any other form of paediatric medicine?
Iconic ending ✨
The "should reveal what they have" argument is dumb for one very simple reason: there are a ton of different human bodies that may or may not turn off some people.
What about cis women who had a single or double mastectomy?
What about cis men who had their testes removed due to illness?
What about people with birth defects?
What about amputees?
The list could go on and we could also include people who had reconstructive cosmetic surgeries or who have invisible implants and prosthetics.
Not being attracted to certain bodies is fine, but being fixated on that is very, very weird. And I say that as someone who used to be fixed on that and had to do a lot of introspection about it to better myself.
I am 5 minutes in and they make it so confusing to know what on earth they are actually talking about. The constant switching between masculine and feminine pronouns for the same example, the switching between trans woman to man to looking like a woman. There is just zero consistency in their own head I genuinely have trouble trying to understand if they are talking about a trans man or trans woman in their example
Ah, the bucket debate.
Babies are the best example of gender since boys and girls are raised as girls until puberty starts, which is show through out history
This caller, like a lot of others, sound as if they were attracted to someone and found out that the person they were attracted to was trans. He sounds like he fears being made fun of by his peers for being attracted to someone they deem unacceptable.
dude lost me at the end there i just started thinking about homestuck
This was a wild stream for buckets
I
H8
Him
Sooooooo Much 17:43 🤯 31:05 his 🧠 hurts
The guest really thought he did sum at 27:20
22:09 I’m sure the caller farts lmao
WHAT WOULD KARKAT SAY ABOUT THIS
"word play" my brother in christ, you are discussing the WORDS man/woman and male/female 💀
Jovan gets *DESTROYED* by the densest element on the periodic table
I will say, the bucket analogy could have been repurposed pretty easily to help him understand the bimodal model of sex. Add a third bucket called “androgyny” and there’s actually something there.
Too bad caller was too dumb to ever consider any of that lol
I don’t know what argument is worse this 🪣 theory or the gender 💉theory I heard Artemis & Demi & a couple others argue against last night.
"pass a law" 😂😂😂 unconstitutional acts are not law.
The caller might have unchecked CTE
Best. Ending. Ever.
Hey jovan, id like to point out species are kinda social constructs and arbitrary, for example we breed with neanderthals and other hominids and have fertile offspring yet we consider them a different species to us
You're clearly new here
The caller has a point.
if his point was ignorance, sure.
A point in stupidity, yeah
If the point is "this is my impression of someone who's wrong" then yes.
If his point is being completely clueless than yeah.
Trans women are not women...
They are. Gender is a spectrum because it was made by people, that’s why it’s only a term used on humans.
Gender and Sex are not independent from on another... One influences another...
you should make less youtube comments and read a book 😂 fucking DUNCE
@@MafiaPyrothey are connected but they are not the same. Woman/man is a social term, exists only in humans. Female and male is biological sex only and exists in all species that reproduce sexually. Therefore you can have a female dog but you don’t have a woman dog.
Of course, you won't have a term such as a "woman dog" because that isn't the term that would be used to describe an adult female dog. "Woman" is exclusive to human beings... Plus, "women dog" is redundant. We don't say "women human." We just say "woman"...
The term the term that is analogous to "woman" for dogs is "bitch". It is used in both scientific and everyday contexts to refer to adult female canines.
"bitch" = adult female canines... "woman" equals adult human female...
I wish I was in the live for this 🥲 cause wow