Nothing has made me more accepting of transwomen in female sports than hearing the arguments people make against it. I used to think it wasn't fair but if that was the case really why would people need to keep lying about it?
Not to mention sports are inherently unfair. Theres nothing fair about sports. And what these anti trans sports people dont realize is cis athletes can have biological advantages as well. Like michael phelps abnormal wide wingspan. Being like 7 feet tall as a basket ball player. Theres so many things that biologically give people advantages and yet no one is crying about how the nba should separate players by height, even tho the taller players have a biological advantage over shorter players. But at the end of the day we know no one gives a shit about woman sports its all about oppressing trans people, trans women in particular. Because trans women having an advantage is beside the point unless we separate all sports by height, muscle mass, hormone levels, etc etc. the point of sports was never to be a fair evenly matched game so idk where people get that from
I mean trans people have been competing in women’s sports for more than 2 decades. This fact debunks all transphobic claims made about women’s sports. Yet this fact is also directly ignored. And i mean transphobes will NEVER address this fact and just pretend they didnt hear it… every. Single. Time.
It's genuinely disturbing that the first thing that trans people or people with gender dysphoria have to meet, the first thing they have to deal with the most before they get to walk into that doctors office, is "people" like this, who have zero clue about anything they talk about, and get to destroy the very few resources they have.
Hey, 5 months later: former collage level swimmer here, there's no difference in technique between the 200m and 500m freestyle. Both are are inferior to the 400m Butterfly.
guy ends up arguing both for trans people in sports of their gender, but he also agrees with us that a trans youth should not be forced to go thru their cis puberty if they dont want those permanent changes
I've noticed that, more often than not, the transphobes you debate against attempt to "front load" their talking points with a Dunning-Kruger level of understanding about things like Biology, Psychology, genetics, etc., as a post-hoc justification for what essentially amounts to little more than a "I can always tell" framework for their arguments. You really need to start callin' these guys out for that. It would save you a lot of time and effort. Just ask them: If we lined up 20 women, and out of the 20, one of them is Trans, are you saying that _You_ would always be able to pick that Transwomam out of that line-up just by looking at them?
yes, their argument is always ultimately aesthetic. they would be far more honest if they stopped trying to dress it in "sciencism" and just admitted they find it icky. Like the whole mental health thing/cause and effect thing this guy brings up early - guess what? it doesn't matter. "mental" health is real health, and there's no rule you fight mental health issues with purely mental/talk therapies. All that argument really seeks to do is trivialize mental health. you can tell because the next thing out of their moth is always about depressed people "just trying" sleeping more or working out. they think they get a win by making transness "mental" because that somehow cheapens or trivilaizes it. So the answer to "isn't it mental?" should be, "I don't know and it doesn't matter. I have doctors that guide what I do. I'm not required to make you an MD to get my rights."
Whats fun is every single time “we can always tell” is tested, they fail hard. 99 percent of the “i can always tell” cult once had a crush on a trans woman and had a mental breakdown when they found out she was trans. Im not even joking. The majority of these clowns got butthurt they were attracted to trans women and their insane emotional instability caused them to pivot hard into transphobeville.
Why do people bring up showering in middle and high school? When I was in middle school in the aughts that shit was rusted over and sectioned off - I never was forced to shower around and in front of people I didn't know. Are there places in the US that still do this?
Not that im aware of. Our showers were clean and worked great… almost NOBODY ever showered there and nobody was “forced” to do anything along that line. Transphobes are stupid
he keeps trying to bring up track but he doesnt even understand those. he said the sprint and the long jump are dif, bro i did do track, thrower here. usually the long jumpers on these small teams were also sprinters. the begining of the long jump is an all out sprint.....................................
39:38 What, Micheal Phelps literally won just about every category. That's why he's the most decorated Olympian of all time. He couldn't have picked a worse example.
To the old boomer who doesn't know the difference between 100yrd, 200yrd, 500yrd, 1000yrd swimming. Its the amount of distance. So when she won first in 100, and missed in 200. She was bad at swimming 200 yards compared to swimming 100 yards? Or was the swimmer competing against her just picking up the pace to get in front of her? My bet is on the latter
Some notes, because the guy did bring up some fair points that were brushed aside. When he was yapping about 'breaking reality' and 'why should I accept their subjective take', he was making a very valid point but you needed to realise that he was (semi-unintentionally) poking flaws with 'gender' as a concept. Gender _is_ silly, it is arbitrary nonsense, but this applies to _ALL_ people who use gender; the winning move is to get him to realise that cisgender people do this, too. Trans people aren't the ones asking for gender, they're just asking for equal access while they're forced to live under it; they don't want to be gendered, they just want to be less uncomfortable when they're forced to be gendered. The move is not to defend cisnormativism but to help the person realise that _we all want this arbitrary crap to stop._ The problem is that cisnormativism is baked into us before we're critically-aware, and that causes transphobes to push what they claim to hate. This is also why he was confused about trans people without gender dysphoria, because he doesn't have a position where genderlessness makes sense, it's just not a logical possibility to him. You said 'not in the human experience' but I fear that this isn't a sound argument for the same reason people bring up 'the female nature' or 'the woman experience'. Not only is this all arbitrary association, but it's a branch you needn't even go down when cisnormativism is rejected. If we're gonna allow 'this boat is a woman and pink is a female colour', then we can allow ghostgender and rock-self in the same way.
@@gingersasquatch94 no they are most definitely a low tier troll with no life whatsoever, join the live and you can join in on making fun of this desperate little excuses of a troll.
Guy is not open to actual understanding of what the other party is saying. However If most cis men went on a date with a woman and she turned out to be a transwoman they would likely have a problem with it. We cannot ignore this Truth. I dont have a solution this is just the situation.
Why is that more of a problem than finding out you aren't compatible with someone in any other way? Also, easy fix, just say you're transphobic, and trans people won't want to date you either!
The solution is hard because it requires generations of people to stop teaching their kids that trans women are magically men and that makes you gay… somehow… as a gay man myself im so confused as to why the weak have a problem with trans women. Its a sad reality that men are the weakest in society.
which dude, cause I see the host bringing up sources and stuff, I checked out his source document and yeah, I'd say he's using logic. Or do you mean the guy you agree with, because you don't wanna change.
![เปิด อาณาจักร หมื่นล้าน "สาระตั้ม" l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3XE0nPF4YkQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Nothing has made me more accepting of transwomen in female sports than hearing the arguments people make against it.
I used to think it wasn't fair but if that was the case really why would people need to keep lying about it?
Not to mention sports are inherently unfair. Theres nothing fair about sports. And what these anti trans sports people dont realize is cis athletes can have biological advantages as well. Like michael phelps abnormal wide wingspan. Being like 7 feet tall as a basket ball player. Theres so many things that biologically give people advantages and yet no one is crying about how the nba should separate players by height, even tho the taller players have a biological advantage over shorter players. But at the end of the day we know no one gives a shit about woman sports its all about oppressing trans people, trans women in particular. Because trans women having an advantage is beside the point unless we separate all sports by height, muscle mass, hormone levels, etc etc. the point of sports was never to be a fair evenly matched game so idk where people get that from
Fr. It always boils down to they don't want trans people to win anything. They want to see them as less than.
I mean trans people have been competing in women’s sports for more than 2 decades. This fact debunks all transphobic claims made about women’s sports. Yet this fact is also directly ignored. And i mean transphobes will NEVER address this fact and just pretend they didnt hear it… every. Single. Time.
😂😂😂 he really thought comparing being trans to being an astronaut was a good argument
The dude sounds like a transphobic elf trying to trap you in some riddle, so maybe he can be an elf
He sounds short enough for it to be true
I'm trans , I've totally SHATTERED reality , reality is my bytch 😂😆
I love being trans and “breaking reality.” It’s a cool superpower 😭😭
I wish I could break reality 😂 I can only do jump kicks
I love my trans people. Continue to "break reality" while these transphobic clowns live in a miserable one
It's genuinely disturbing that the first thing that trans people or people with gender dysphoria have to meet, the first thing they have to deal with the most before they get to walk into that doctors office, is "people" like this, who have zero clue about anything they talk about, and get to destroy the very few resources they have.
the NCAA mandated 12 months before Lia could swim in the women's division. Lia was on HRT 2.5 years before she swam in the women's division.
Hey, 5 months later: former collage level swimmer here, there's no difference in technique between the 200m and 500m freestyle. Both are are inferior to the 400m Butterfly.
guy ends up arguing both for trans people in sports of their gender, but he also agrees with us that a trans youth should not be forced to go thru their cis puberty if they dont want those permanent changes
I've noticed that, more often than not, the transphobes you debate against attempt to "front load" their talking points with a Dunning-Kruger level of understanding about things like Biology, Psychology, genetics, etc., as a post-hoc justification for what essentially amounts to little more than a "I can always tell" framework for their arguments. You really need to start callin' these guys out for that. It would save you a lot of time and effort. Just ask them: If we lined up 20 women, and out of the 20, one of them is Trans, are you saying that _You_ would always be able to pick that Transwomam out of that line-up just by looking at them?
yes, their argument is always ultimately aesthetic. they would be far more honest if they stopped trying to dress it in "sciencism" and just admitted they find it icky.
Like the whole mental health thing/cause and effect thing this guy brings up early - guess what? it doesn't matter. "mental" health is real health, and there's no rule you fight mental health issues with purely mental/talk therapies. All that argument really seeks to do is trivialize mental health. you can tell because the next thing out of their moth is always about depressed people "just trying" sleeping more or working out.
they think they get a win by making transness "mental" because that somehow cheapens or trivilaizes it.
So the answer to "isn't it mental?" should be, "I don't know and it doesn't matter. I have doctors that guide what I do. I'm not required to make you an MD to get my rights."
Whats fun is every single time “we can always tell” is tested, they fail hard. 99 percent of the “i can always tell” cult once had a crush on a trans woman and had a mental breakdown when they found out she was trans. Im not even joking. The majority of these clowns got butthurt they were attracted to trans women and their insane emotional instability caused them to pivot hard into transphobeville.
Why do people bring up showering in middle and high school? When I was in middle school in the aughts that shit was rusted over and sectioned off - I never was forced to shower around and in front of people I didn't know. Are there places in the US that still do this?
Not that im aware of. Our showers were clean and worked great… almost NOBODY ever showered there and nobody was “forced” to do anything along that line. Transphobes are stupid
Man that caller was a nightmare to listen to. I dont think he knows.... Anything.
I really hope people rewatch the debates they take part in lol
If you look up the definition of disingenuous. It's just a picture of this guest
This dude sounds like 🤓 personified
He tried to get into eugenics like 20 seconds into the call lmao
I’m pretty sure this is the same guy that tried to debate HasanAbi and got absolutely rekt
You know shit is getting real when the triple-dog-dare is invoked!🍿🥤
Right!!😂
I feel like the Crux of so many of these it is arguments comes down to "okay so what's your fucking point?"
he keeps trying to bring up track but he doesnt even understand those. he said the sprint and the long jump are dif, bro i did do track, thrower here. usually the long jumpers on these small teams were also sprinters. the begining of the long jump is an all out sprint.....................................
39:38 What, Micheal Phelps literally won just about every category. That's why he's the most decorated Olympian of all time. He couldn't have picked a worse example.
Michael Phelps only won in what he was good at, you know, swimming.
I hear the Vorlo guy on tiktok in his voice and now i cant unhear it.
Sensei LaDew? HOW FORTUITOUS
The silence…… I must scream
This guy's just chicken and waffles all over the place!!
Lia won the 100 meter in the Ivy League comp, Lia won the 500 meter in the NCAA's and came in 8th in the 100 meter in the NCAA's
Jovan so tired of this kind of bull 😂
To the old boomer who doesn't know the difference between 100yrd, 200yrd, 500yrd, 1000yrd swimming. Its the amount of distance.
So when she won first in 100, and missed in 200. She was bad at swimming 200 yards compared to swimming 100 yards? Or was the swimmer competing against her just picking up the pace to get in front of her?
My bet is on the latter
Some notes, because the guy did bring up some fair points that were brushed aside.
When he was yapping about 'breaking reality' and 'why should I accept their subjective take', he was making a very valid point but you needed to realise that he was (semi-unintentionally) poking flaws with 'gender' as a concept. Gender _is_ silly, it is arbitrary nonsense, but this applies to _ALL_ people who use gender; the winning move is to get him to realise that cisgender people do this, too. Trans people aren't the ones asking for gender, they're just asking for equal access while they're forced to live under it; they don't want to be gendered, they just want to be less uncomfortable when they're forced to be gendered.
The move is not to defend cisnormativism but to help the person realise that _we all want this arbitrary crap to stop._ The problem is that cisnormativism is baked into us before we're critically-aware, and that causes transphobes to push what they claim to hate. This is also why he was confused about trans people without gender dysphoria, because he doesn't have a position where genderlessness makes sense, it's just not a logical possibility to him.
You said 'not in the human experience' but I fear that this isn't a sound argument for the same reason people bring up 'the female nature' or 'the woman experience'. Not only is this all arbitrary association, but it's a branch you needn't even go down when cisnormativism is rejected. If we're gonna allow 'this boat is a woman and pink is a female colour', then we can allow ghostgender and rock-self in the same way.
Ngl, I thought that was a woman the whole time until about min 36 😂
I lost it when he said puberty makes men more jacked. Bruh sounds like he's 5'6" and 90lbs soaking wet
27:54 has this dude never exercised in his life?
Sus
Jovan you got your ass kicked on this one! So bad you had to refer to insults. I'd delete this video if i were you. 😂🎉
@@BSTRIZZELS Bot or troll? The world may never know.
@@gingersasquatch94 no they are most definitely a low tier troll with no life whatsoever, join the live and you can join in on making fun of this desperate little excuses of a troll.
Guy is not open to actual understanding of what the other party is saying. However If most cis men went on a date with a woman and she turned out to be a transwoman they would likely have a problem with it. We cannot ignore this Truth. I dont have a solution this is just the situation.
Many cases they harm them :/
Those men are problems
Why is that more of a problem than finding out you aren't compatible with someone in any other way?
Also, easy fix, just say you're transphobic, and trans people won't want to date you either!
The solution is hard because it requires generations of people to stop teaching their kids that trans women are magically men and that makes you gay… somehow… as a gay man myself im so confused as to why the weak have a problem with trans women. Its a sad reality that men are the weakest in society.
I mean he had pretty bad argument but Jovan also had terrible argument in the lia thompson section of the debate
Please elaborate lol
@@violetrapture3776 elaborate on a random comment I made over 2 months ago? No, I don't think I can.
@@TheRealBrit I thought so
@@violetrapture3776 sorry for not being able to remember a random argument from months ago I guess but I have other things going on in my life.
Then why respond?
dude is just using logic, having a conversation lol idk wtf ya'll are mad bout, calling him names just cause he doesn't agree with you... clap
Just go home
which dude, cause I see the host bringing up sources and stuff, I checked out his source document and yeah, I'd say he's using logic.
Or do you mean the guy you agree with, because you don't wanna change.
Please grow from here :)
Cope harder
I love seeing me in the comments being ruthless 😂