Regi: other region have lower ping, so their player are better. Now we import them into our server, so they will play on our level. This is how we are going to close the gap.
@@jeffhill3976 They even got shit like in house now, it is less than 10 ping, riot has done everything they can to help NA. Use that fucking 6 millions dollar and invite high elo player around the world come play in house with them, they could have the best in house solo q in the world. Instead, let's waste 6 millions on a washed up player and keep complaining.
@@iamkailong what you mean Riot has done everything for NA? It's literally common knowledge that up till 1,5-2 years ago Na teams wasn't even allowed to scrim outside the set times, could not use tournament server for non official riot events, no in houses and until the collegiate league any amateur league were closed down. Historically RIOT has cucked na harder than any other major region playing the game. Not saying this is the main reason their region doesn't deliver but the opposite of ur point is true
@@elimtvreborn2031 NA team are allows to scrim whenever and whoever they fucking want. It is the teams and player decided that they only scrim on certain time. Tournament? Now they can already do all that, and what's the result? Dl they got any better tournaments, discover more talents through those? In house is something that only NA got, which the pros say they wanted and say it would make them better. And whats the result? Oh amateur league closed down, you know why? Regi say we need franchise, we need a academy system. No more relegation, no more need amateur league. Na say they don't want relegation, so they got franchise system. NA say they want import rules so they don't need to play against Chinese team, they got that. NA say they want more imports as they are not completitive, now they got the oce region. NA say they want best of 3, they got it. They want Best of 1 back? Got it. Riot literally makes all their rule around NA, and you say what again? Tell me which region got better treatment than NA. LCK got their own fucking league system canceled because they need to follow NA LCS system. Are you kidding me?
To be fair there is like some scary one tricks in like gold low plat that can destroy you in lane as long as your jungler ignores you, but you know, throw the game as soon as they have to think about more than just playing their kit.
On the point about LS saying people on reddit following him around to trash talk him, I remember a few years ago on stream, LS talked about a guy from reddit who has been trash talking him for like 15 years. He literally pulled up old starcraft forums from when he was a player and the same guy, exact same username as his reddit username, was shit talking him back then. Now the guy followed him to league and is shit talking him on the league reddit. Insane. LS called him a cyberstalker.
@@Cuggaconroyfan30001 I mean to be fair it's pretty easy to follow someone on social media and be notified when a person you follow posts something lol. Less so back when it was forums, but it has become increasingly easier to follow across all social media platforms.
Honestly I think these guys have done more for the CLG fanbase with just people memeing that they are CLG fans than CLG have done in the last 3 or 4 years
It feels like whenever a new player gets added to a NA roster that team just hard resets on how to play league before starting the slow process of relearning things.
An interesting way that the import rule could be changed is that ANY rookie doesnt count towards an import slot, and defining a rookie by playing x amount of games(in my head equalling to a split and a half) in a professional league, where by professional I mean the top league in any region that can qualify for worlds. Would love to here opinons on this
Interesting idea. But import rules wouldnt only change for NA but also for China. Where a change like that would propably lead to Chinese teams only taking in more Korean rookies. For NA this would propably mean that national talent would decrease even further because teams would just scout in IRLs in Europe, where talent is more refined than in Academy anyway. Also a split and a half isnt really a rookie anymore.
No. This is the worst this is why G2 ceo made that comment in the first place. They are destroying other regions system just make NA great. EU and Korea academy and amateur players are expected to start from the very bottom with low salary so that they will still try their hardest to improve. Imagine Zeus and Oner going straight to NA as rookies. Their development will just get damaged because they are learning from garbage infrastructure that is NA then teams in korea have to sacrifice getting b tier players as sub just fill out the spots that they left. They are basically destroying 2 regions at the same time.
Yo the VOD reviews this week were super amazing and legit. I felt like I learned more than usual from listening to the analysis. Another best episode yet, love the show guys, thanks for the content
I hate the Ping argument so much. If it is literally the biggest problem with your players, then fricking move to chicago and put the LCS Studio there. I get 20 ping. It is solvable, just freaking leave LA.
True. Also i dont really get the issue. It should be solvable via technical infrastructure right? But yeah simply move LCS and Academy to Chicago or even if you really care about talent development, move Academy to Korea or Europe to have them practise on a better ladder.
Plus the players can take part in in-houses but they just won't. They struggled to get 10 players to play most of the time and half of those were academy players. Also how is ping supposed to be an argument for imports? I don't get it. Are the Korean and Chinese players going to bring their infracstructure with them? Did Swordart arrive with a shit ton of fibre optics and a server in his luggage? The ping is going to stay the same no matter how many non resident players the orgs bring in.
@@SuperBiggy17 well its only solvable to a point with infrastructure. Internet can only get so fast and ping is more a measure of distance than internet speed. They have dropped ping for 65 from LA to Chicago down to 50 ish with better tech, but you will never get 20 ping over the rocky mountains. just not gonna be a thing. the only solution would be to divide the player base into east/west which riot has very clearly said they won't do.
There is one thing I'd love for you guys to touch on - In regards to the import rule, one thing that just sounds very disingenuous from Regi and other owners is to try and focus the narrative on the competitive side, but really there is a big business incentive to them to remove the import rule. Salaries in LCS are very high and there is crazy inflation from import players who have resident status. I'm going to use Impact as an example, but there are several in this case (Jensen, Santorin, Huni, etc...) I think we can argue that Impact is amongst the better top laners in LCS. Very solid player overall. I know there are differences (especially in career achievments), but one could argue that Odoamne is at least in the same skill range as Impact. However, for an NA team to get a player of that calibre being resident, the price is massively inflated to the point of being unsustainable. So, as time went by, Riot kept changing the rules to what counted as an NA resident and the players that got the status are like rare diamonds inflating the price. You think EG wouldn't want to get Odo for his Rogue salary instead of Impact on his actual salary? And my point is, these are business decisions, because they need to be competitive to get the sponsors, but being competitive got too expensive, so in my opinion (AND IT'S JUST MY OPINION, I KNOW FUCK ALL) this whole thing comes from that need. Instead of adapting the business model, they want to the industry to change so that their business model makes sense. It's the equivalent of rotating a house to screw a lightbulb in. The fans would appreciate if there was some transparency there, because anyone who has been following league for a long time saw this coming when Immortals came to the game and massively raised LCS salary standards. We all want the best for the players, but if you're an org and you made that decision, live by it or adapt. Don't come up with some bullshit about being a global org, or that the server is not big enough, or that you want to develop talent. They want to be profitable, as they should being a business, and LCS / Riot is not there to save them from bad business decisions.
is there a spotify version of this season of facecheck? I would love to listen to it while on a walk but I can only find old videos spread across multiple accounts on spotify
Yeah either go to LS' vods on twitch since you can listen to it with your phone locked, or if you have an android phone download youtube vanced where you can also lock your phone and just listen to this video.
Doms reasoning,”Closer shouldn’t be to blame if he’s playing Olaf” Blaber legit dominates and runs over every team on that champ fam. Even Jankos with his old ass hands popped off on Olaf.
I keep saying this every time the import rule is brought up. NONE of the LCS owners are ready to conduct the level of business that they're headed for. Look at how they handle trades, look how they handle free agency, look how they handle young talent, look how they handle THEMSELVES. The orgs don't want to empower the players because it's detrimental to THEM. Can you imagine an NFL or NBA situation when big players routinely move both during and after the season in the LCS? Dealing with a potential salary cap is another thing that the LCS owners aren't ready for, they CANT compete with China for top tier imports from the LCK and EU players would rather go be on a potential superteam than go slum it in NA unless they're frustrated or it's their last shot. It blows my mind how mentally unprepared and greedy these owners are.
Funnily enough NA owners are whining about import rules, when they literally got a whole Region for free who now count as residents. I wonder what if they will ever realise there problems are not mainly the low talent pool, but poor infrastructure and mismanagement of teams and player development.
@@FMD-FullMetalDragon but to be fair is not the owners or riot job to change the NA culture and they don't have the time anyways, league will die before they see the result
@@FMD-FullMetalDragon This is true but we have also previously seen LPL and LCK players say that they would prefer how NA does things in regard to being a bit looser and having more free time. In LPL they have very little free time, the game is their life. LCK not as much but still they take it very seriously. Not that NA doesn't take it seriously, but they aren't as strict in NA with training, soloq, scrims, etc. They practice and put work in, but they value free time more than most other regions. This, coupled with all the other issues, holds them back. Maybe it's just time to accept that you have to take the good with the bad, you have more time to live your life but you won't ever be on their level because instead of going out to have a drink or play Fall Guys with buddies they are playing soloq...on 15 ping lol.
@@MacguffinsTV its not even about free time mainly. Which btw is not the cultural problems people are talking about. Do you really think G2 doesnt do free time like they do in Asia? The problem is team structure in NA and culture of critique. People cant deal with failure und negative critique. You always have to comfort these guys.
@@SuperBiggy17 "This, coupled with all the other issues"...smh nobody said it was mainly due to this, just that it is another aspect of what holds NA back...
That EDG vs IG team fight was fucking beautiful my god. I only ever watched LCS because it had the personalities I find fun to watch. But my god, I know how bad LCS is but this IG 8th-9th place teams really put things into perspective. They can legitimately win LCS no cap lmao
Did you mean something else because pretty sure Japanese Master tier player with 100k player base is not the inflated as Korean Master tier player with at least 2m? Or wdym
facecheck is probably the only thing in the community that's keeping me sane, reddit and twitter have become un-browsable. The only place you can find reason and solace is facecheck. Before it was one of those sources i skimmed through for some content. Now i barely even spend time on either of those two sites and this show has become the only thing in league I look forward to after a game week, which I also watch in full. Please keep doing what you're doing for as long as possible, it is appreciated.
Surely as the import rule is a global rule other regions should have a say in the rule. Also if the rule gets lifted thats atleast 20 players in na who are getting subbed or dropped meaning 20 players at least from around the world will be moved effecting every single team they get taken from. This only benifits na surely
if other regions can’t afford to pay their players what they deserve, and NA as a region ends up being improved as a result who cares? The imported players get to play in an actually competitive league with a great salary. And it’s not like every team’s talent pool will be drained, i can guarantee the majority of foreign players want to stay in their regions. I mean look at the relationship between china and korea in league. China is to the Koreans what NA is to EU/KR. A league with a lot of money that isn’t at home. Only difference is China has gotten better teams that don’t need imports while NA hasn’t. There’s no downside to another competitive league that will offer good salaries man. Teams will build new brands with new players, more money will come into the leagues, and the NA server may become competent even.
@@liche414 So poorer teams that develop players well also don't deserve to win?? You wouldn't have teams like Damwon winning World's then. Not every team has massive budgets like NA
@@captainkrajick Actually with LCK franchising that poor team problem won't happen anymore. Not to mention Damwon is now sponsored by KIA. As for poorer teams developing players, what is wrong with not poor teams developing players? Iy may be a cool narrative, "poor team wins worlds", but the players and the majority of the viewers could care less about that. And as I said before, the majority of foreign players will stay in their region. It takes more than money to make someone leave the country they were born and raised in, especially when they're young.
Love the show and watch every week, good podcast to listen to whilst doing my boring as fuck 9-5. Was wondering if you all have considered doing a LEC podcast, I know at least 2/3 of the hosts watch the LEC and I'm sure based on viewership numbers for leagues a lot of viewers of this podcast also watch LEC games
I think part of the problem with teams watching the other team do dragon can be traced back to the issues teams have defending chokes around dragon. If teams don’t set up properly, the other team might be getting away with fights that they have no business taking and therefore think that it’s ok to be hanging out by the dragon. Thanks for calling these two points out - they really do seem like not-very-hard macro points that are causing a lot of trouble for NA teams.
If Excel was in LCS instead of LEC they would be second place alongside 100T. They lose early games but have just mastered how to draft for the late game and ease of execution
Last two year there was ridiculous narrative that Europe is number 2 region and LCK number 3, despite the fact that last two worlds won by china had 2 koreans in each team. I really think g2 is awesome team, but its only 1 legit team in Europe right now. But to put europe as number 2 region after LCK managed to win 5 worlds in a row, and yet LPL won worlds with koreans, thats ridiculous.
dude last worlds people were legit insane lol. yes lck looked weaker last year overall except damwon, but every korean time made it out of groups right?? while mad lions died in play-ins and rogue in groups. (to any eu fans im not shitting on eu, but the region only has one world champion level team in G2)
Finally someone said it, NA teams refuse to see any other objective asides from baron and dragon on the map. They take dragon, go take a turret, they take baron, you cant contest? try to take a turret? ive seen countless times in NA where a team took baron and the other team was in prime position to trade an inhib for it but they based to try to contest for baron. Made no sense.
49:00 I remember this insane ward in S5 that lasted the first 25 minutes of the game in the enemy jungle. Such a good ward and I haven't seen any NA team do it since.
I remember last season's summer finals in LPL JDG and TES were fighting over a red buff for 4-5 mins at the start of the game and although it looked like silver macro it was actually insane what was going on, like red team's top had prio and could tp while the wave mid was pushing to red team so the mid laner could stay in the fight without losing too much so the red team could keep on forcing. And that's just basic analysis which shows that their level of macro and micro ofc is insane.
The Owners refuse to consider the most impactful reality on NA which is American Culture as a whole. They refuse to look into how to use it to their advantage.
I was hoping if you can do power rankings for Jungle and Support because these 2 roles are the most abstract to evaluate. you can't just look numbers to decide. Thank you if you decide to choose that :)
I really wish LS would explain the personality those good NA players from starcraft was like. He said they were different but didn't tell us why or how. i really liked his culture take.
Totally agree with Some about teams just standing and watching the enemy team take the dragon. And what infuriates me even more is instead of fighting for the dragon, they start the fight after the objective is already gone.
Honest question for Dom and LS. Do you think that there are enough knowledgable retired pro league players for NA teams to able to hire on and teach some of the fundamental basics to the Academy players
One point I haven’t heard talked about regarding Import rule is won’t we inherently be permanently behind all other regions if import rule gets lifted? How are we going to compete with LCK & LPL to take the top players. We’ve seen plenty examples of these players opting to stay in home regions regardless of money NA can throw, it feels like we would doom any chance of NA developing our own talent while simultaneously taking scraps from others
My personal take on why the NA pro LoL falls off is the single game setup, as opposed to the best of 3 most other competitive regions use. It makes our draft phase and overall adaptability worse
I'd be interested hear what you guys think about the 10 LCS teams ability to even pay for a full team of imports if the rule truly is lifted in it's entirety. I'm sure TL, TSM, EG and C9 could get the money together for whatever roster they wanted if it looked like they actually had a shot at landing the players. GG, Flyquest and the rest of the league though? I am not a professional in this realm nor will I ever claim to know how everything works but I'd imagine the process for even having a conversation to offer an international player a contract costs a decent amount of money by itself, not counting the actually salary you're also paying that player. If this rule actually ends up getting lifted, then my perception is that we're going to see a massive rise in necessity for good talent scouting and development in the same capacity as other traditional sports where NA and more specifically the USA performs very well at internationally(basketball, track and field, swimming, volleyball). Our system and infrastructure of coaching and accessibility to correct information pivotal to meaningful improvement at a competitive level in those sports is likely one of the most developed in the world. I believe a similar infrastructure in North American E-sports is necessary if we ever expect to see consistent international success. Teams with lower budgets will still struggle to acquire the best international talent simply because of budgeting issues so their only options are to scout internally within the confines of "domestic NA players(NA, OCE)". If I am completely uninformed here then I apologize for my ignorance. I'm just a fan of the LCS that wants to see the region do well in general.
On the topic of culture: It’s not just NA vs LCK culture, it’s literally North American vs Korean culture, North American vs China culture The fact of the matter is that Asian Culture is 5 to 10 times more competitive, in every way. It’s hard to tangibly display, but look st the school systems, look at the pressure put on kids by parents. The culture of society itself is fundamentally different, and riot + esports owners can’t change that. That being said I dont want the import rule removed, I just wanted to clarify the “culture argument” Thats also not to say there arent hyper competitive NA players, but then comes the “people you’re playing against aren’t as good/ have the aforementioned drive” It’s no single issue. You can have DoubleLift’s drive and still not be top tier Korean becayse of your soloq games quality. Regions can just be fundamentally unequal because of the standard for “drive to get better” is.
Sure, but last year C9 dropped so hard that they didn't make worlds after many opportunities. Over all, all teams are quite below that other major regions and getting cought by minor regions in performance.
@@aeowinh ^^^ This. Gotta keep it a bit current. Remember how dominant C9 were last year in the spring and we celebrated them as one of the most dominant teams in LCS history - we have to hold the accountable as well when they collapse just a split later and fail to make worlds.
Even if we are unable to no longer produce NA talent, that doesn’t change the fact that most of the growth and marketing we have now from NA lCS, came from the connection the fans had with the OG players, and national play mattered. Now, everyone is trying to speed run to worlds, because national play holds 0 meaning.
I can kinda see an argument where CLG fight that first drag u showed because it doesn't seem like there's that big of a deficit, as they have similar items to their opponents, their 2 carries are up and CS and are close to their lane opponents in terms of power level, and they're only down 2 tier 1's. I don't think it was the right call to fight given the situation, execution and lack of setup beforehand, but from their perspective they're probably thinking "If we pick Nid and watch for Kai'sa we probably win the fight"
Regi: other region have lower ping, so their player are better. Now we import them into our server, so they will play on our level. This is how we are going to close the gap.
Our players are just shit
Our players arent good now. But if the ping was 5-15 in 3 years we will have competitive players.
@@jeffhill3976 They even got shit like in house now, it is less than 10 ping, riot has done everything they can to help NA. Use that fucking 6 millions dollar and invite high elo player around the world come play in house with them, they could have the best in house solo q in the world. Instead, let's waste 6 millions on a washed up player and keep complaining.
@@iamkailong what you mean Riot has done everything for NA? It's literally common knowledge that up till 1,5-2 years ago Na teams wasn't even allowed to scrim outside the set times, could not use tournament server for non official riot events, no in houses and until the collegiate league any amateur league were closed down.
Historically RIOT has cucked na harder than any other major region playing the game. Not saying this is the main reason their region doesn't deliver but the opposite of ur point is true
@@elimtvreborn2031 NA team are allows to scrim whenever and whoever they fucking want. It is the teams and player decided that they only scrim on certain time. Tournament? Now they can already do all that, and what's the result? Dl they got any better tournaments, discover more talents through those? In house is something that only NA got, which the pros say they wanted and say it would make them better. And whats the result? Oh amateur league closed down, you know why? Regi say we need franchise, we need a academy system. No more relegation, no more need amateur league.
Na say they don't want relegation, so they got franchise system. NA say they want import rules so they don't need to play against Chinese team, they got that. NA say they want more imports as they are not completitive, now they got the oce region. NA say they want best of 3, they got it. They want Best of 1 back? Got it. Riot literally makes all their rule around NA, and you say what again? Tell me which region got better treatment than NA. LCK got their own fucking league system canceled because they need to follow NA LCS system. Are you kidding me?
Another week another facecheck does not get better than this!
IWDominate gets to HighElo because he is scared of facing up against the gigabrain Silver to Plat players who comment on reddit.
To be fair there is like some scary one tricks in like gold low plat that can destroy you in lane as long as your jungler ignores you, but you know, throw the game as soon as they have to think about more than just playing their kit.
@@MrPerlew nah u can get high diamond off only being a god in lane good gold players are a myth
@@jasonsnitch naw seriously, if you were actually that good you would just play enough to climb.
gud take my challenjor
@@jasonsnitch you need time to climb skin rewards are unlock in gold for decent number of people there isn't any motivation to climb beyond gold
On the point about LS saying people on reddit following him around to trash talk him, I remember a few years ago on stream, LS talked about a guy from reddit who has been trash talking him for like 15 years. He literally pulled up old starcraft forums from when he was a player and the same guy, exact same username as his reddit username, was shit talking him back then. Now the guy followed him to league and is shit talking him on the league reddit. Insane. LS called him a cyberstalker.
man how do you have so much time to do that lmao what a loser that person is.
Thats crazy, I don't know where he can find all that time to harass LS like that.
@@iplayfoofee3547 its so wild man like we get it you want to fuck LS but this is the wrong way to go about it lmfao
@@Cuggaconroyfan30001 I mean to be fair it's pretty easy to follow someone on social media and be notified when a person you follow posts something lol. Less so back when it was forums, but it has become increasingly easier to follow across all social media platforms.
@@MacguffinsTV yeah man and like thats cool but who has all the time to hate someone that much?
You guys memeing on CLG is going to make me a fan of them lmfao
There's a video there... stay tuned...
Bruv honestly lol
I've since followed their twitter and like everything they post...cuz I feel bad.
Honestly I think these guys have done more for the CLG fanbase with just people memeing that they are CLG fans than CLG have done in the last 3 or 4 years
Nice, enjoy!
Yo, this podcast SHOULD be put on spotify. It's so much easier to listen to these on spotify over youtube.
Just get TH-cam premium. Life is good here
@@wilkinlow I have Spotify premium because it’s shared with me. I don’t want to pay for YT premium :)
Nah youtube is better. I cumm for the comments
@@Ihateironyanddumbusernames it’s not hard for them to upload to both 🙃
It’s not a black and white situation.
52:56 LMAO
wait what? crazy to see u here :0 , i
wait a minute, i listen to your stuff
worst part, thats how tsm lost vs dig, just, giving it away while staying around
crackhead pov
Man you guys could not post facechecks at a better time. Gives just enough time for the WoW weekly reset to patch
Who the shit asked?
@@banster7809 I asked
@@banster7809 I also in fact asked.
Came here to ask him this
@@banster7809 I asked
It feels like whenever a new player gets added to a NA roster that team just hard resets on how to play league before starting the slow process of relearning things.
Im offended that LS said that about Mortal Kombat. But hes also right.
Dgon's laugh at 2.30 is what I came here for
i like the way he laughs, he laughs like he has a million dollars!
that or someone told him NA is going to win worlds
@@weixia5577 huehuehuehuehuehue uwu
"It doesn't matter it's Damonte" Perks is a savage.
52:25 Dom is getting a lesson plan ready for the LCS
An interesting way that the import rule could be changed is that ANY rookie doesnt count towards an import slot, and defining a rookie by playing x amount of games(in my head equalling to a split and a half) in a professional league, where by professional I mean the top league in any region that can qualify for worlds. Would love to here opinons on this
Really interesting idea, although maybe a split and a half might already be too much
@@elouanbarois1275 the idea was basically so they didnt get thrown in for a game or 2 and have their rookie status taken due to it
Interesting idea. But import rules wouldnt only change for NA but also for China. Where a change like that would propably lead to Chinese teams only taking in more Korean rookies. For NA this would propably mean that national talent would decrease even further because teams would just scout in IRLs in Europe, where talent is more refined than in Academy anyway.
Also a split and a half isnt really a rookie anymore.
So that the LCS can just buy out ERL talent?
No. This is the worst this is why G2 ceo made that comment in the first place. They are destroying other regions system just make NA great. EU and Korea academy and amateur players are expected to start from the very bottom with low salary so that they will still try their hardest to improve. Imagine Zeus and Oner going straight to NA as rookies. Their development will just get damaged because they are learning from garbage infrastructure that is NA then teams in korea have to sacrifice getting b tier players as sub just fill out the spots that they left. They are basically destroying 2 regions at the same time.
Yo the VOD reviews this week were super amazing and legit. I felt like I learned more than usual from listening to the analysis. Another best episode yet, love the show guys, thanks for the content
dom is actually becoming one of the best league analysts out there, props
Just came to say, We appreciate you dGon, you a real one for all the shit you do.
I hate the Ping argument so much. If it is literally the biggest problem with your players, then fricking move to chicago and put the LCS Studio there. I get 20 ping. It is solvable, just freaking leave LA.
True. Also i dont really get the issue. It should be solvable via technical infrastructure right? But yeah simply move LCS and Academy to Chicago or even if you really care about talent development, move Academy to Korea or Europe to have them practise on a better ladder.
Plus the players can take part in in-houses but they just won't. They struggled to get 10 players to play most of the time and half of those were academy players. Also how is ping supposed to be an argument for imports? I don't get it. Are the Korean and Chinese players going to bring their infracstructure with them? Did Swordart arrive with a shit ton of fibre optics and a server in his luggage? The ping is going to stay the same no matter how many non resident players the orgs bring in.
This. Especially This.
@@SuperBiggy17 well its only solvable to a point with infrastructure. Internet can only get so fast and ping is more a measure of distance than internet speed. They have dropped ping for 65 from LA to Chicago down to 50 ish with better tech, but you will never get 20 ping over the rocky mountains. just not gonna be a thing. the only solution would be to divide the player base into east/west which riot has very clearly said they won't do.
Exactly they act like they couldn’t just move the LCS to NY or Chicago
There is one thing I'd love for you guys to touch on - In regards to the import rule, one thing that just sounds very disingenuous from Regi and other owners is to try and focus the narrative on the competitive side, but really there is a big business incentive to them to remove the import rule. Salaries in LCS are very high and there is crazy inflation from import players who have resident status. I'm going to use Impact as an example, but there are several in this case (Jensen, Santorin, Huni, etc...)
I think we can argue that Impact is amongst the better top laners in LCS. Very solid player overall. I know there are differences (especially in career achievments), but one could argue that Odoamne is at least in the same skill range as Impact. However, for an NA team to get a player of that calibre being resident, the price is massively inflated to the point of being unsustainable. So, as time went by, Riot kept changing the rules to what counted as an NA resident and the players that got the status are like rare diamonds inflating the price. You think EG wouldn't want to get Odo for his Rogue salary instead of Impact on his actual salary?
And my point is, these are business decisions, because they need to be competitive to get the sponsors, but being competitive got too expensive, so in my opinion (AND IT'S JUST MY OPINION, I KNOW FUCK ALL) this whole thing comes from that need. Instead of adapting the business model, they want to the industry to change so that their business model makes sense. It's the equivalent of rotating a house to screw a lightbulb in. The fans would appreciate if there was some transparency there, because anyone who has been following league for a long time saw this coming when Immortals came to the game and massively raised LCS salary standards. We all want the best for the players, but if you're an org and you made that decision, live by it or adapt. Don't come up with some bullshit about being a global org, or that the server is not big enough, or that you want to develop talent. They want to be profitable, as they should being a business, and LCS / Riot is not there to save them from bad business decisions.
Caps has better results with both fnc and g2 in the last 3 years than the whole lcs in the last 5 years. 3 quarters 3 semifinals and 2 finals.
is there a spotify version of this season of facecheck?
I would love to listen to it while on a walk but I can only find old videos spread across multiple accounts on spotify
Go to LS vods on twitch
Yeah either go to LS' vods on twitch since you can listen to it with your phone locked, or if you have an android phone download youtube vanced where you can also lock your phone and just listen to this video.
Or get youtube premium.
We need more Kangaroo analyst in face check! That was amazing when you came out of replay to the kangaroo
Doms reasoning,”Closer shouldn’t be to blame if he’s playing Olaf”
Blaber legit dominates and runs over every team on that champ fam. Even Jankos with his old ass hands popped off on Olaf.
I keep saying this every time the import rule is brought up.
NONE of the LCS owners are ready to conduct the level of business that they're headed for. Look at how they handle trades, look how they handle free agency, look how they handle young talent, look how they handle THEMSELVES. The orgs don't want to empower the players because it's detrimental to THEM. Can you imagine an NFL or NBA situation when big players routinely move both during and after the season in the LCS? Dealing with a potential salary cap is another thing that the LCS owners aren't ready for, they CANT compete with China for top tier imports from the LCK and EU players would rather go be on a potential superteam than go slum it in NA unless they're frustrated or it's their last shot. It blows my mind how mentally unprepared and greedy these owners are.
Funnily enough NA owners are whining about import rules, when they literally got a whole Region for free who now count as residents. I wonder what if they will ever realise there problems are not mainly the low talent pool, but poor infrastructure and mismanagement of teams and player development.
Their problem is that they won't ever consider how American Culture plays a factor in how NA plays.
@@FMD-FullMetalDragon but to be fair is not the owners or riot job to change the NA culture and they don't have the time anyways, league will die before they see the result
@@FMD-FullMetalDragon This is true but we have also previously seen LPL and LCK players say that they would prefer how NA does things in regard to being a bit looser and having more free time. In LPL they have very little free time, the game is their life. LCK not as much but still they take it very seriously. Not that NA doesn't take it seriously, but they aren't as strict in NA with training, soloq, scrims, etc. They practice and put work in, but they value free time more than most other regions. This, coupled with all the other issues, holds them back. Maybe it's just time to accept that you have to take the good with the bad, you have more time to live your life but you won't ever be on their level because instead of going out to have a drink or play Fall Guys with buddies they are playing soloq...on 15 ping lol.
@@MacguffinsTV its not even about free time mainly. Which btw is not the cultural problems people are talking about. Do you really think G2 doesnt do free time like they do in Asia?
The problem is team structure in NA and culture of critique. People cant deal with failure und negative critique. You always have to comfort these guys.
@@SuperBiggy17 "This, coupled with all the other issues"...smh nobody said it was mainly due to this, just that it is another aspect of what holds NA back...
Dom is literally running a weekly 12 step program for the LCS
Maybe this way some of the coaches might actually learn something
At this point I'm just watching LCS to keep up with Facecheck. This show is too good.
A really cool video to do with in-depth analysis would be like lane states and jungle states. Maybe similar depth as the skarner one?
That EDG vs IG team fight was fucking beautiful my god. I only ever watched LCS because it had the personalities I find fun to watch. But my god, I know how bad LCS is but this IG 8th-9th place teams really put things into perspective. They can legitimately win LCS no cap lmao
England is my city moment for dgon
"4k handpicked GM players"
"I dont think we have 4k people above Master"
this broken me 😂
There isn't a large enough player base to support it. You get elo inflation the larger player bases become
Did you mean something else because pretty sure Japanese Master tier player with 100k player base is not the inflated as Korean Master tier player with at least 2m? Or wdym
facecheck is probably the only thing in the community that's keeping me sane, reddit and twitter have become un-browsable. The only place you can find reason and solace is facecheck. Before it was one of those sources i skimmed through for some content. Now i barely even spend time on either of those two sites and this show has become the only thing in league I look forward to after a game week, which I also watch in full. Please keep doing what you're doing for as long as possible, it is appreciated.
Thanks for your comments FBI.
Surely as the import rule is a global rule other regions should have a say in the rule. Also if the rule gets lifted thats atleast 20 players in na who are getting subbed or dropped meaning 20 players at least from around the world will be moved effecting every single team they get taken from. This only benifits na surely
NA wanna go full pay to win and seems to be the only region constantly crying about it.
if other regions can’t afford to pay their players what they deserve, and NA as a region ends up being improved as a result who cares? The imported players get to play in an actually competitive league with a great salary. And it’s not like every team’s talent pool will be drained, i can guarantee the majority of foreign players want to stay in their regions. I mean look at the relationship between china and korea in league. China is to the Koreans what NA is to EU/KR. A league with a lot of money that isn’t at home. Only difference is China has gotten better teams that don’t need imports while NA hasn’t. There’s no downside to another competitive league that will offer good salaries man. Teams will build new brands with new players, more money will come into the leagues, and the NA server may become competent even.
@@liche414 So poorer teams that develop players well also don't deserve to win?? You wouldn't have teams like Damwon winning World's then. Not every team has massive budgets like NA
@@liche414 Getting paid what they deserve. NA is throwing 10x what players deserve and still losing. Swordart worth 3m? Huni salary?
@@captainkrajick Actually with LCK franchising that poor team problem won't happen anymore. Not to mention Damwon is now sponsored by KIA. As for poorer teams developing players, what is wrong with not poor teams developing players? Iy may be a cool narrative, "poor team wins worlds", but the players and the majority of the viewers could care less about that. And as I said before, the majority of foreign players will stay in their region. It takes more than money to make someone leave the country they were born and raised in, especially when they're young.
Lol between LS screen shotting reddit posts for content and IWD skarner typr ranta this quickly becoming the most fun league related content
Move the LCS stage to Chicago. Should lower the practice ping by at least 20 to 30 since that's where the core servers are located.
I had 16 ping when I lived in Chicago
Seriously though covid is the prime time to move. If lcs or teams are serious they would have moved there already
I literally spit my tea all over when Dom said that CLG is tied for 10th place LMAO
Cant believe dom and LS don't get that dragon is contested by staring contest. That's how a real region plays
52:55 Thats why I fucking love Dom
Love the show and watch every week, good podcast to listen to whilst doing my boring as fuck 9-5. Was wondering if you all have considered doing a LEC podcast, I know at least 2/3 of the hosts watch the LEC and I'm sure based on viewership numbers for leagues a lot of viewers of this podcast also watch LEC games
Longer episodes or we riot
I think part of the problem with teams watching the other team do dragon can be traced back to the issues teams have defending chokes around dragon. If teams don’t set up properly, the other team might be getting away with fights that they have no business taking and therefore think that it’s ok to be hanging out by the dragon. Thanks for calling these two points out - they really do seem like not-very-hard macro points that are causing a lot of trouble for NA teams.
Man you guys smashed this facecheck yet again! This show has really become THE truth of LCS
If Excel was in LCS instead of LEC they would be second place alongside 100T. They lose early games but have just mastered how to draft for the late game and ease of execution
"We didn't talk about damonte mages!"
"It will still be relevant next week"
Papa smithy denies this statement xD
Last two year there was ridiculous narrative that Europe is number 2 region and LCK number 3, despite the fact that last two worlds won by china had 2 koreans in each team. I really think g2 is awesome team, but its only 1 legit team in Europe right now. But to put europe as number 2 region after LCK managed to win 5 worlds in a row, and yet LPL won worlds with koreans, thats ridiculous.
dude last worlds people were legit insane lol. yes lck looked weaker last year overall except damwon, but every korean time made it out of groups right?? while mad lions died in play-ins and rogue in groups. (to any eu fans im not shitting on eu, but the region only has one world champion level team in G2)
Finally someone said it, NA teams refuse to see any other objective asides from baron and dragon on the map. They take dragon, go take a turret, they take baron, you cant contest? try to take a turret? ive seen countless times in NA where a team took baron and the other team was in prime position to trade an inhib for it but they based to try to contest for baron. Made no sense.
40:30 Facecheck
1:03:57 Facecheck
49:00 I remember this insane ward in S5 that lasted the first 25 minutes of the game in the enemy jungle. Such a good ward and I haven't seen any NA team do it since.
That JG tier list kinda shows that MarkZ doesn't know how a jungler is supposed to play lol
amazing video guys!
I remember last season's summer finals in LPL JDG and TES were fighting over a red buff for 4-5 mins at the start of the game and although it looked like silver macro it was actually insane what was going on, like red team's top had prio and could tp while the wave mid was pushing to red team so the mid laner could stay in the fight without losing too much so the red team could keep on forcing. And that's just basic analysis which shows that their level of macro and micro ofc is insane.
That's an exceptionally good thumbnail!
Dam im happy someone finally brought up the NA entitlement on the import situation
The Owners refuse to consider the most impactful reality on NA which is American Culture as a whole. They refuse to look into how to use it to their advantage.
Damn, dgon’s drip has returned back to normal, sadge
I was hoping if you can do power rankings for Jungle and Support because these 2 roles are the most abstract to evaluate. you can't just look numbers to decide. Thank you if you decide to choose that :)
If the LCS import rule is removed then the LCS should be refranchised. No reason NA Owners should get protection whilst NA players don't.
Hey man, will this show ever go on spotify??
52:55 is what youre here for
Love this episode! Keep it up
This is honestly the best show; please never stop making it!
26:13 the reason MarkZ put broxah 9th and not 10th is because he's a nice guy
Such a good show
I really wish LS would explain the personality those good NA players from starcraft was like. He said they were different but didn't tell us why or how. i really liked his culture take.
Thank you Dgon for the explanation :'D
just looking out for us smol brains
The boys are back for another banger let's go!
Totally agree with Some about teams just standing and watching the enemy team take the dragon. And what infuriates me even more is instead of fighting for the dragon, they start the fight after the objective is already gone.
Am I the only one who finds it funny that they use the TL Dardoch photo to represent Dignitas
2011 Starcraft era was an awesome time in esports
Did u know those colossus were halluc?
Idra was the original mald
holy fuck i got scared when i saw a mouse change the video quality after i just did it lmao.
Honest question for Dom and LS. Do you think that there are enough knowledgable retired pro league players for NA teams to able to hire on and teach some of the fundamental basics to the Academy players
Good thing dGon wasn't sipping his drink when Dom mentioned u/gaggedanddrooling
monkaW
He spilled a drink anyway
One point I haven’t heard talked about regarding Import rule is won’t we inherently be permanently behind all other regions if import rule gets lifted? How are we going to compete with LCK & LPL to take the top players. We’ve seen plenty examples of these players opting to stay in home regions regardless of money NA can throw, it feels like we would doom any chance of NA developing our own talent while simultaneously taking scraps from others
Dgon is shadyy with that comment on damonte's mages 😂
anyone know where i can find the previous seasons of Facecheck? this prob the best League podcast out there
IWDominate's channel, go to playlists for the facecheck playlist. The show used to be with locodoco and Zirene though instead of LS.
i don’t follow ls at all but i like his hair like that. looks really good 👍
I love how much more intellectually superior LS and Dom is over that little doofus Dgon. It’s Kawaii!
This content actually slaps.
MORE EMILY!!!
As long as we don't send TSM, yes.
We've been in 40% of all MSI Finals! :)
Wait there's going to be an MSI?
My personal take on why the NA pro LoL falls off is the single game setup, as opposed to the best of 3 most other competitive regions use. It makes our draft phase and overall adaptability worse
I'd be interested hear what you guys think about the 10 LCS teams ability to even pay for a full team of imports if the rule truly is lifted in it's entirety. I'm sure TL, TSM, EG and C9 could get the money together for whatever roster they wanted if it looked like they actually had a shot at landing the players. GG, Flyquest and the rest of the league though?
I am not a professional in this realm nor will I ever claim to know how everything works but I'd imagine the process for even having a conversation to offer an international player a contract costs a decent amount of money by itself, not counting the actually salary you're also paying that player.
If this rule actually ends up getting lifted, then my perception is that we're going to see a massive rise in necessity for good talent scouting and development in the same capacity as other traditional sports where NA and more specifically the USA performs very well at internationally(basketball, track and field, swimming, volleyball). Our system and infrastructure of coaching and accessibility to correct information pivotal to meaningful improvement at a competitive level in those sports is likely one of the most developed in the world. I believe a similar infrastructure in North American E-sports is necessary if we ever expect to see consistent international success.
Teams with lower budgets will still struggle to acquire the best international talent simply because of budgeting issues so their only options are to scout internally within the confines of "domestic NA players(NA, OCE)".
If I am completely uninformed here then I apologize for my ignorance. I'm just a fan of the LCS that wants to see the region do well in general.
I can't wait until a team in NA just buys V5's roster or LNG's roster, puts them in NA and goes to worlds. Fun future or what?
lol, cant like a team just because they are Asian? Congrats, youre cringe
@@koolaiddude7685894 who said anything about liking or disliking anything or anyone here? :)
Gotta love Iceland dude!
On the topic of culture: It’s not just NA vs LCK culture, it’s literally North American vs Korean culture, North American vs China culture
The fact of the matter is that Asian Culture is 5 to 10 times more competitive, in every way. It’s hard to tangibly display, but look st the school systems, look at the pressure put on kids by parents. The culture of society itself is fundamentally different, and riot + esports owners can’t change that.
That being said I dont want the import rule removed, I just wanted to clarify the “culture argument”
Thats also not to say there arent hyper competitive NA players, but then comes the “people you’re playing against aren’t as good/ have the aforementioned drive”
It’s no single issue. You can have DoubleLift’s drive and still not be top tier Korean becayse of your soloq games quality. Regions can just be fundamentally unequal because of the standard for “drive to get better” is.
All I got to say is that LCS world results is C9. When was the last time TSM TL got out of ground
2019 MSI when TL made it to finals?
Sure, but last year C9 dropped so hard that they didn't make worlds after many opportunities. Over all, all teams are quite below that other major regions and getting cought by minor regions in performance.
@@aeowinh ^^^ This. Gotta keep it a bit current. Remember how dominant C9 were last year in the spring and we celebrated them as one of the most dominant teams in LCS history - we have to hold the accountable as well when they collapse just a split later and fail to make worlds.
“Sounds like NA has a chance there”
From US: that was fire.
Can anyone tell me if this is on some podcast app? iTunes/Spotify etc? I love their show and it’s be great to listen at work
I feel like I would care more if we had better ping, allowing us to actually succeed at higher levels.
Feels like NA is handicapped constantly.
The main problem with NA is the people with decision-making power. I don't see how the import rule is gonna change that.
I'm really happy that I quit this awful game but I still keep up with facecheck. Awesome podcast you guys I love the new idea that dom proposed
Thank mr spongebob avatar sogginess.
@@dgon4997 Haha you responded, that made my day bro
LS going weyln, "So I created a copy of his base on my private server"
Isn't LCS already some kind of mini LEC at this point?
Even if we are unable to no longer produce NA talent, that doesn’t change the fact that most of the growth and marketing we have now from NA lCS, came from the connection the fans had with the OG players, and national play mattered. Now, everyone is trying to speed run to worlds, because national play holds 0 meaning.
the quality of the video is...uff
I am addicted to Facecheck Sadge
Perfect time boys
Is anyone else having quality issues? The video looks incredibly low resolution even at 1080p. Everything is fuzzy and text is barely legible
I can kinda see an argument where CLG fight that first drag u showed because it doesn't seem like there's that big of a deficit, as they have similar items to their opponents, their 2 carries are up and CS and are close to their lane opponents in terms of power level, and they're only down 2 tier 1's. I don't think it was the right call to fight given the situation, execution and lack of setup beforehand, but from their perspective they're probably thinking "If we pick Nid and watch for Kai'sa we probably win the fight"