You can also use parallel compression if for example you wanted a heavier compressed sound overall, but still want the attack of the original drums to come through.
Yes, there are many techniques out there, but I would say the drum compression adds punch to the drums and glues them together at the same time. This is just what I found so far.
Simple, Good Examples, Quick to demonstrate and compare and contrast. Enough detail to inform me, not too long to make me feel intimidated or bore me. Excellent video, Joe. I now feel informed to why I should pay more attention to my attack and release times on my bus compressors. cheers !
I am JUST NOW dealing with the problem of losing all the punch of tracks once I compress them, and I couldn't figure out why. This is fantastic advice, thanks!
I enjoyed this video. Definitely a great way to get nice punchy drums. I have also run into situations where the drums are TOO punchy. I've solved this by doing the exact opposite - fast attack, med release. Just to smooth the top out a little bit, around 2dB GR.
Awesome advice !!! I did it and it really made a nice difference. Wow, when you slowed down the attack time the kick really came through... see 3:24 Boom-a-licious
I partly disagree. This may apply to some occasions but there are times when you need that compressor to catch the initial transients so that the sustain gets brought up to give the drums a fuller sound. With a slow attack the level of the sustain is evened out and it "rings" for more time, but the overall level of the sustain relative to the level of the attack remains roughly the same. That said, I haven't mixed enough drums to be sure about anything. P.S. Love your videos Joe!(your music too)
Should the ratio be higher for this? Eg. a 3.5:1 ratio with -10 to -20db threshold, 30ms attack and 100ms release, soft knee? Trying to find the perfect combination
Thanks for the video. A quicker way is to select the "punch" preset from the SSL comp, which you'll notice are set to pretty much the exact settings you ended up with, with the exception of the threshold.
Wow, Ive always done the opposite just by habit. Being taught that in order to have punchy drums use a fast attack...But this just opened my eyes to not go by the "Rules" but listen and do what sounds best.
thank you so much! finally got more or less basics of compression but still had questions about mix bus comp settings on drums. On forum someone advised for keeping the transients/punch, to keep the original sound and blend in with squashed parallel compression. Is there any rules/standarts for that?
For makeup gain in general, do you all try to match the volume bypassed exactly? I admit i sometimes set it smidge above the bypassed volume to give it some oomph. Or is that bad?
I matching before and after the plugin . I did used 3 or 10attack time and slower release for my kick and sounds best i will try faster release it's logical but also what sounds good sounds good
Maaaan, I tried this just 30 seconds after watched your video and this really fucking works. Plus, the drums in your mix are very well recorded. Thanks for posting @Joe Gilder
So what's a happy medium to compress for loudness? I know this is a very general statement, but I feel like I have a pretty good amount of knowledge about mixing and mastering, yet I can't seem to get my tracks as loud (with as much punch) as commercial records. Pretty frustrating :/
Note! it doesn't mean that you should never use fast attack and release on you kick for example! if your kick has harsh and aggressive attack its better to use fast attack and release to make it softer and rounder, its always depend on what exactly you need from your compressor and decide why you need it. Its very easy to make the sound worst! Bus compressor works better when the sounds is already balanced before.
exactly. The best way to compress a drum bass is parallel compression. That way you don't lose the transients that are important for impact of the drums, and you still can get very powerful drums by blending in the parallel heavily compressed drums.
So basically sounds like the fast attack squashes it took quick therefor loosing a lot of snap and body the drums have? Being over compressed by being compressed too fast.
Yeah, and further to that some styles of compressor don't really lend themselves to a buss either. I've never had great lick using 1176-style Comps on drum busses either. Something about big iron VCAs, or really clean optos lend themselves better to drums
Not trying to be a contrarian for the sake of it, but truth is 1-3 ms Attack time is very common on a drum bus. in this case your just compressing it too much. I often do about 1-3 (almost never 4 or above) db of compression but also turn the mix to around 45-65% depending on how it sounds. I then sometimes add another with a longer attack, often around 30-55 but sometimes as high as 150-200 ms, again never really compressing over 2-3db, again paralleled at 50-60% (often times this isn't necessary as your likely to add a limiter at some point but i like the sound of an extra slow attack compressor somewhere in the mix). I suppose it depends on your sound and whether you've applied individual compression to the tracks that are being summed. I'd like to proven wrong but I've been doing this for years and I can't seem to not.
unfortunately waves's bus comp has that blanket quality. you should give duende bus a try and see if you like it. it sounds more airy and open. ain't using something else since. i like the E& G channel from waves tho.... and the g channel is even smoother. anyways waves is a very good alternative if you don't have the duende and both are getting ssl aproval
+Joe Gilder Good to hear, I almost always put the SSL on my percussion bus as well as the mix bus. Just love the SSL. Superb glue, color and punch and transients come through really well.
How many bus tracks do you typically use? 4-5? One for drums, pianos, guitars, bass? Is it smart to use the SSL Buss on your mastering track, or should I just use a limiter? Also, would this have the same effect if I sent all my tracks to a aux send instead of bus? Edit: Just watched another one of your videos. Didn't realize it was a "master buss compression".It's your master
I knew, that fast attack time kills the drum sound. When I tried to compress a complete mix and tried to find a setting, what matches the best, finally I had attack and release at a value about a quarter of the maximal value.
By the way, I did it this way: Setting ratio and threshold to extreme values Comparison of processed and non processed signal Adjusting attack and release till the processed signal sounds most similar to the original Adjusting threshold and ratio to normal values. And now the difference is, that the compressed version makes details better audible, some instruments sounds longer.
I'm confused. If the main (not only, but main) purpose of using a compressor is to even out the transients with the rest of the track, then why use a compressor at all if it doesn't attack the transients fast enough? Why use a compressor at all if you're not going to tame the transients? If you're missing the transient then you're just compressing the softer parts now, right? And if so, that's what you would use an expander for, right? Why not just leave the track as it was? Thanks in advance.
A 100 ms attack still compresses the signal. It just doesn't compress the first 100 ms of the transients. Compression is still happening, it's just happening later, giving it a different sound. Theory is great and all, but theory won't help you get a good mix if you don't sit down and mess with a compressor and listen for the differences in sound. :)
Thanks for your input. I'm definitely already "sitting down and messing with compressors" etc. I'm working and practicing nonstop with all types of compressors, including the one showcased in this video. And despite my repetitive attempts at employing trial and error while using my ears, I like to visit youtube channels such as yours to get more insight. These kinds of youtube channels can be useful to me for understand WHY something works rather than just trying to move knobs on my own and seeing what they do when i listen. I'm hoping to understand more clearly. Regarding the "100 ms attack"... you're saying it will start attacking the signal after 100ms. That part of the signal is often the part of the transient that was already quieter than the initial transient in the first place, right? So I'm wondering why are we using a compressor in this case? It seems we are missing the loud part and then compressing the part that was already softer (after 100ms)... so we are increasing dynamic range (expanding) instead of reducing (compressing) dynamic range. So i'm just confused on the theory of why we are using a compressor if the end result is to expand the dynamic range rather than compress or reduce it. I'm hoping for theoretical understanding. I already HEAR the difference and like it. But I want to understand what's really happening. Sorry for my horrifically long-winded response. Just want to understand. I appreciate your insight and your channel.
but the balance can be easily fixed by working on individual tracks, he seemed to have left the tracks dry and started working on the buss first, I always feel like it is better to work on the balance while mixing the drum tracks and use the bus to add thickness and do some tiny eq fixes :-) if you squeeze comp on the buss, anything else you do in the tracks will not be as definite and clear
Hello Folks, I'm now irritated that this video is talking about Attack Time slowly, Chris Lord Alge or Warren Huart say in every interview at compression the attack time should be fast, which is the right one nowgone, and what's the difference, thank you in advance for your help and keep rocking!🎙🎸💯🤘😎
Depending on what you want to achieve. Awesome sound: slower attack. Want to tame the peaks more? - faster attack (louder mix but you loose punch) To solve the problem: use compression to taste and apply saturation.
Joe Gilder Music I am still learning. I have released few tracks, i make electronic music and my guess is i am the very rare out there that don't use compressor at all. It's just because i don't know fully how to use it. So i think it's better not to use it than make mix sound bad. I always make my quiet parts too loud when i use master bus compressor, but i will learn. Great video btw and have a very productive year 2017 :)
Nah punchy drums are great for hard rock but don't always work for every song. Could try a little bit of reverb or compress with a lil quicker attack time and lower threshold.
JimijaymesGuitarist snare was a beast. had to turn the attack all the way to the right on my 1176. still hardhitting but I think that should do it. pretty uncommon (Alt. Metal track - by the way)
.30 or 30 ms? Could be a number of things: Could be the drum recording themselves. Could be that the drums don't need compression. Could be you need to compress the kick by itself.
go into the kick and manually dip the transient with volume automation.. i tend to use volumeshaper 4 for that.. or you can also try some type of plugin like transient shaper and lower the attack settings, only on the kick track while the drum bus comp is on.. tweak to se fit
Use a Clipper. Then you get a nice and completely non-dynamic pancake. Happy cooking your drums! :) yes, peaks/transients are important, but whatever rocks your boat. It's not my music. :P He asked how to get rid of the peaks. Clipper is the right answer. There are many clippers, like GVST one, but if you use The Glue you just have to turn it on and boost the volume until you're satisfied with the sound.
The tech answer is to use a limiter. It is very possible that the biggest peak in the transient is inconsistent in volume. Clipping the signal will sound pretty good as well and control the peak
You can also use parallel compression if for example you wanted a heavier compressed sound overall, but still want the attack of the original drums to come through.
Yes, there are many techniques out there, but I would say the drum compression adds punch to the drums and glues them together at the same time. This is just what I found so far.
Simple, Good Examples, Quick to demonstrate and compare and contrast. Enough detail to inform me, not too long to make me feel intimidated or bore me. Excellent video, Joe. I now feel informed to why I should pay more attention to my attack and release times on my bus compressors. cheers !
I am JUST NOW dealing with the problem of losing all the punch of tracks once I compress them, and I couldn't figure out why. This is fantastic advice, thanks!
I enjoyed this video. Definitely a great way to get nice punchy drums. I have also run into situations where the drums are TOO punchy. I've solved this by doing the exact opposite - fast attack, med release. Just to smooth the top out a little bit, around 2dB GR.
Straight to the point. Love it. No b.s. intros. I'm a subscriber now.
Awesome advice !!! I did it and it really made a nice difference.
Wow, when you slowed down the attack time the kick really came through... see 3:24
Boom-a-licious
Love the video. This would be a great place to use the A/B thing on the plugin.
this video was enough to make me subscribe to your channel. can't wait to watch more of them
Joe - your videos are always so incredibly helpful. thank you
Very clever explanation Joe, this kind of video helps more than just sharing ratios and milliseconds. Cheerios!
Thank u Joe! This simple tip totally changed my drums. Im going back to my old mixes and adjust also. U da Man!
I partly disagree. This may apply to some occasions but there are times when you need that compressor to catch the initial transients so that the sustain gets brought up to give the drums a fuller sound. With a slow attack the level of the sustain is evened out and it "rings" for more time, but the overall level of the sustain relative to the level of the attack remains roughly the same. That said, I haven't mixed enough drums to be sure about anything. P.S. Love your videos Joe!(your music too)
I think for that you should use upwards compression.
Great job Joe. A nice quick and effective video
Should the ratio be higher for this? Eg. a 3.5:1 ratio with -10 to -20db threshold, 30ms attack and 100ms release, soft knee? Trying to find the perfect combination
Thanks for the video. A quicker way is to select the "punch" preset from the SSL comp, which you'll notice are set to pretty much the exact settings you ended up with, with the exception of the threshold.
Great I was looking for this advice.Thank you
GREAT video Joe!!!!!!!!!! This is a mistake I have made a few times. I'm going back to some tracks and try a slower attack!!!! Thanks Joe!!
Great video. I think I liked a 10ms attack time a bit better than 30ms.
Great tip and video, thank you
I'd like to see your take on mix bus compression with the SSL Comp.
Wow, Ive always done the opposite just by habit. Being taught that in order to have punchy drums use a fast attack...But this just opened my eyes to not go by the "Rules" but listen and do what sounds best.
Joe do you have compression on any of the drum tracks before the bus ?
does this apply to fast trap (rap trap, no edm trap) aswell, in regards to the attack and release time
thank you so much! finally got more or less basics of compression but still had questions about mix bus comp settings on drums. On forum someone advised for keeping the transients/punch, to keep the original sound and blend in with squashed parallel compression. Is there any rules/standarts for that?
Two dislikes? Why do people hate? Great work, this helped.
Would a snap track do the same thing, without having NO compression on initial transients?
what if im mixing trap music at 120 bpm or150 is it still too fast
This is the best lesson about drums compression.
so do u put a compresser on the drums themselves and the bus channel too?
in the beginning he shows us the settings..all drums go to a bus (drum bus) where he first has a ssl eq and than the ssl bus compr. inserted !! :-)
I think he put compressors between the mics and the drum skins while he's tracking
I know, I wanted to know if by bus he means subgroup. I'm not sure what the term bus is, that's it
When he says bus compression, he refers to the drums subgroup, right?
For makeup gain in general, do you all try to match the volume bypassed exactly? I admit i sometimes set it smidge above the bypassed volume to give it some oomph. Or is that bad?
I matching before and after the plugin . I did used 3 or 10attack time and slower release for my kick and sounds best i will try faster release it's logical but also what sounds good sounds good
Maaaan, I tried this just 30 seconds after watched your video and this really fucking works. Plus, the drums in your mix are very well recorded. Thanks for posting @Joe Gilder
Nice!!!
Wow you're right, the slower attack opens up the drum tracks. Thanks for sharing.
You're welcome. Can be a real game-changer for sure.
So what's a happy medium to compress for loudness? I know this is a very general statement, but I feel like I have a pretty good amount of knowledge about mixing and mastering, yet I can't seem to get my tracks as loud (with as much punch) as commercial records. Pretty frustrating :/
Note!
it doesn't mean that you should never use fast attack and release on you kick for example!
if your kick has harsh and aggressive attack its better to use fast attack and release to make it softer and rounder, its always depend on what exactly you need from your compressor and decide why you need it.
Its very easy to make the sound worst!
Bus compressor works better when the sounds is already balanced before.
+KuxVibes Music Good point.
Fast attacks are what you want on your paralleled kicks.
exactly. The best way to compress a drum bass is parallel compression. That way you don't lose the transients that are important for impact of the drums, and you still can get very powerful drums by blending in the parallel heavily compressed drums.
Thank you!
i dont think i ever compress percussion w/o using parallel compression.
Great tip here thanks man!!! im glad I found this vid really needed to know that
So basically sounds like the fast attack squashes it took quick therefor loosing a lot of snap and body the drums have? Being over compressed by being compressed too fast.
Exactly
Yeah, and further to that some styles of compressor don't really lend themselves to a buss either. I've never had great lick using 1176-style Comps on drum busses either. Something about big iron VCAs, or really clean optos lend themselves better to drums
Thank you, Joe! :D This video totally deleted some of my question marks :D
😊
where did you get the "one headlight" stems? hahah xD
Not trying to be a contrarian for the sake of it, but truth is 1-3 ms Attack time is very common on a drum bus. in this case your just compressing it too much. I often do about 1-3 (almost never 4 or above) db of compression but also turn the mix to around 45-65% depending on how it sounds. I then sometimes add another with a longer attack, often around 30-55 but sometimes as high as 150-200 ms, again never really compressing over 2-3db, again paralleled at 50-60% (often times this isn't necessary as your likely to add a limiter at some point but i like the sound of an extra slow attack compressor somewhere in the mix). I suppose it depends on your sound and whether you've applied individual compression to the tracks that are being summed. I'd like to proven wrong but I've been doing this for years and I can't seem to not.
Brilliant!! Why does all the best advice seem so obvious once you Know it? Thanks!!
Haha. For some reason we like to over-complicate things.
unfortunately waves's bus comp has that blanket quality. you should give duende bus a try and see if you like it. it sounds more airy and open. ain't using something else since. i like the E& G channel from waves tho.... and the g channel is even smoother. anyways waves is a very good alternative if you don't have the duende and both are getting ssl aproval
Great tut, Joe ! Right on ! Do you use the SSL comp on your drum bus as well as the mixbus, i.e. multiple instances of the SSL comp in your project ?
+Are Grongstad Yep I've done that before
+Joe Gilder Good to hear, I almost always put the SSL on my percussion bus as well as the mix bus. Just love the SSL. Superb glue, color and punch and transients come through really well.
A link for the vst download?
www.waves.com
How many bus tracks do you typically use? 4-5? One for drums, pianos, guitars, bass? Is it smart to use the SSL Buss on your mastering track, or should I just use a limiter? Also, would this have the same effect if I sent all my tracks to a aux send instead of bus?
Edit: Just watched another one of your videos. Didn't realize it was a "master buss compression".It's your master
Awesome video btw! I am trying to look for the right one to answer all of my questions
I knew, that fast attack time kills the drum sound. When I tried to compress a complete mix and tried to find a setting, what matches the best, finally I had attack and release at a value about a quarter of the maximal value.
By the way, I did it this way:
Setting ratio and threshold to extreme values
Comparison of processed and non processed signal
Adjusting attack and release till the processed signal sounds most similar to the original
Adjusting threshold and ratio to normal values.
And now the difference is, that the compressed version makes details better audible, some instruments sounds longer.
Excellent tip!
I'm confused. If the main (not only, but main) purpose of using a compressor is to even out the transients with the rest of the track, then why use a compressor at all if it doesn't attack the transients fast enough? Why use a compressor at all if you're not going to tame the transients? If you're missing the transient then you're just compressing the softer parts now, right? And if so, that's what you would use an expander for, right? Why not just leave the track as it was? Thanks in advance.
You’ll have to just try it and listen for yourself.
But there’s a reason compressors allow you to have slow attack times.
Thanks for the response. I'm trying things. But I'm more interested in the theory behind it and hoping for an explanation from someone.
A 100 ms attack still compresses the signal. It just doesn't compress the first 100 ms of the transients. Compression is still happening, it's just happening later, giving it a different sound. Theory is great and all, but theory won't help you get a good mix if you don't sit down and mess with a compressor and listen for the differences in sound. :)
Thanks for your input. I'm definitely already "sitting down and messing with compressors" etc. I'm working and practicing nonstop with all types of compressors, including the one showcased in this video. And despite my repetitive attempts at employing trial and error while using my ears, I like to visit youtube channels such as yours to get more insight. These kinds of youtube channels can be useful to me for understand WHY something works rather than just trying to move knobs on my own and seeing what they do when i listen. I'm hoping to understand more clearly. Regarding the "100 ms attack"... you're saying it will start attacking the signal after 100ms. That part of the signal is often the part of the transient that was already quieter than the initial transient in the first place, right? So I'm wondering why are we using a compressor in this case? It seems we are missing the loud part and then compressing the part that was already softer (after 100ms)... so we are increasing dynamic range (expanding) instead of reducing (compressing) dynamic range. So i'm just confused on the theory of why we are using a compressor if the end result is to expand the dynamic range rather than compress or reduce it. I'm hoping for theoretical understanding. I already HEAR the difference and like it. But I want to understand what's really happening. Sorry for my horrifically long-winded response. Just want to understand. I appreciate your insight and your channel.
Thank you, Joe! :D Btw, can this technique be used at the same time as there's some NY compression on the kit, or will that just be overkill?
Not sure. Try it and see!
+Joe Gilder • Home Studio Corner Tried it. It does seem to work, i cant hear any negative effects, so :)
Awesome vid, Joe! Thanks!
I knew from the title that it would be about the attack. Sounds good in solo but kills the balance.
but the balance can be easily fixed by working on individual tracks, he seemed to have left the tracks dry and started working on the buss first, I always feel like it is better to work on the balance while mixing the drum tracks and use the bus to add thickness and do some tiny eq fixes :-) if you squeeze comp on the buss, anything else you do in the tracks will not be as definite and clear
This works for vocals too btw
Awesome👊🏽💯
Good video man. Respect
You are correct.
i really want g master , to bad i have to purchase the fuckin mastering pack
nice tip.
Nice tip...thanks
Hello Folks, I'm now irritated that this video is talking about Attack Time slowly, Chris Lord Alge or Warren Huart say in every interview at compression the attack time should be fast, which is the right one nowgone, and what's the difference, thank you in advance for your help and keep rocking!🎙🎸💯🤘😎
Depending on what you want to achieve. Awesome sound: slower attack. Want to tame the peaks more? - faster attack (louder mix but you loose punch) To solve the problem: use compression to taste and apply saturation.
I'd use a quick attack on a parallel bus, so you get both benefits.
impressive!
This is great.
Thanks Bure!
gr8 im goona try it and test it :)
I wouldn't call it a mistake. We did this intentionally to all of Peter's drum parts because he sucks.
Thanks!! =)
mind = [explosion!]
I never use compressor. I just do more damage to my tracks with it.
Whatever works for you. I find there are some sounds I can't get without compression.
Joe Gilder Music I am still learning. I have released few tracks, i make electronic music and my guess is i am the very rare out there that don't use compressor at all. It's just because i don't know fully how to use it. So i think it's better not to use it than make mix sound bad. I always make my quiet parts too loud when i use master bus compressor, but i will learn. Great video btw and have a very productive year 2017 :)
cool
Ow! My face
?
Because the drums are so punchy ;D
Yes he does, It's the same thing :)
Your release is way too quick, going to end up pumping the compressor.
am I the only fucking one whos drums are too punchy?
Lower dat threshold
Nah punchy drums are great for hard rock but don't always work for every song. Could try a little bit of reverb or compress with a lil quicker attack time and lower threshold.
JimijaymesGuitarist snare was a beast. had to turn the attack all the way to the right on my 1176. still hardhitting but I think that should do it. pretty uncommon (Alt. Metal track - by the way)
+The Great Western Trendkill u could try a transient shaping plug-in... this could soften em up
Dude me too! I always find myself limiting the drum bus or the 2bus really hard at the end of the mix because of how pokey the drums sound.
People are crazy with the compression... Don't just use your ears--feel the music in your body!
Doooope!!!!
Off 2:06 vs On 2:43
No difference
When I leave a .30 attack leaves a very sharp transient on the kick - how do I eliminate these peaks after compressing the drums?
.30 or 30 ms? Could be a number of things: Could be the drum recording themselves. Could be that the drums don't need compression. Could be you need to compress the kick by itself.
Joe Gilder Music It's .30 and the Kick is processed already and transient appears only after drum bus compression.
go into the kick and manually dip the transient with volume automation.. i tend to use volumeshaper 4 for that.. or you can also try some type of plugin like transient shaper and lower the attack settings, only on the kick track while the drum bus comp is on.. tweak to se fit
Use a Clipper. Then you get a nice and completely non-dynamic pancake. Happy cooking your drums! :) yes, peaks/transients are important, but whatever rocks your boat. It's not my music. :P He asked how to get rid of the peaks. Clipper is the right answer. There are many clippers, like GVST one, but if you use The Glue you just have to turn it on and boost the volume until you're satisfied with the sound.
The tech answer is to use a limiter. It is very possible that the biggest peak in the transient is inconsistent in volume. Clipping the signal will sound pretty good as well and control the peak
cool