Games Workshop Deleting ENTIRE ARMIES for Age of Sigmar
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
- Games Workshop is getting rid of Beasts of Chaos, Bonesplitterz, a WHOLE mess of Stormcast Eternals - and more! WHY?
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In short, their business model is that every 3-6 years you rebuy all the books and half or more of your miniatures collection. It’s essentially a subscription model.
GW has just done it slower than other games, so it took longer to became this annoying. I quit MTG when they sped up set rotations. Priced out of another buying for another hobby. At least old stuff can still work with our homies 🤷♂
That's been the policy since the early 90's
It's too much to keep up with.
Even if finances aren't a problem, building and painting that much plastic every few years is just an unreasonable time investment for most people.
@@travis8106I think this is the real reason thing.
@@lopoa126 play Commander like a normal person. Lol Eternal format ftw!
"We can not keep producing the same miniatures forever."
*Rereleases the old world**
. . .
Thats flawed logic. They stopped making those models for 8 years
You should see the production date on some of my WH40k Ork sprues….
@@thinkabouthelogic I have Warp Spiders
@@James-xb7qc and they are using the same exact molds. this issue isnt production for them, its warehouse space. so they are removing these new models...for space for old old models
@@autumnlotus6250 There is nothing easier for a massive corporation than to rent an extra warehouse.
Plus, they can always let the independent retailers stock their stuff over there instead (something they recently announced will not be as common as it was before).
Stormcast Eternals not quite as Eternal as first thought
Sigmar lied :D
Stormcast Temporaries
This is my favourite comment thread in a while.
They were just Space Marines without any guns so all & all I do not see this as a lost but instead a win. Now GW just get rid of Age of Sigmar completely and that would be perfect.
@@chestersleezer8821 umm okay
Historical gamer here to remind you that it's unlikely your WW2 US infantry or Tiger tanks are going to be removed when Bolt Action 3.0 arrives. But I don't see why the GW news surprises anyone, AoS was only made to replace and invalidate Old World models, and Primaris to replace Marines, etc. Any gamer that played GW since the 80's has seen this countless times. Nice vid as always.
I've been at this since '87 myself and I largely agree with you that this is more of the same. However as a warcry player, having half of the options to play the game simply vanish is quite confounding. If this isnt a sign of the (non)future of warcry, then I dont know what is. It was the one thing that made me look at GW again. So much for that.
not interested in real world scenarios - thank you.
This hits hard. Reminds me of how the pewter terminators and tactical marines I poured my heart and soul into painting back when I was in college 30 years ago look pathetic standing next to current Space Marine models. 😩
@@nutellanorbert2799Neither am I, my gaming group don't recreate real battles or such. Bolt Action is just a really solid game system (based ona an earlier 40K edition and written by two former GW game designers) that has a fantastic model range that doesn't date. The publishers, Warlord, don't mess their customers around or frequently change the rules. If you're really hung up about the shape of the tokens you're pushing around your pretend battlefield then you're missing out on some solid gaming systems. BA players often play US vs US for example, just as 40K players play SM vs SM. It's just one list vs another with solid rules.
Great point!
"We can not keep producing the same miniatures forever. Now, here you are the same Bretonnian men at arms from your childhood at unbelievable 2024 prices! You can't have it anyways, because it's permanently out of stock. But hey, we know you'll buy it because y'all plastic junkies, so stay tuned for more updates!" -And they are right...
Also: "we can't continue to sell and support every model we ever made indefinitely" ... yeah and nobody asked for that anyway. But models that came out literally less than six years ago? You know, the posterboys (and girls) from LAST EDITION? Just off the charts crazy.
*Catachans and Warp Spiders entered the chat*
I feel like Old World is part of a conspiracy of some inside job at GW to get people to buy Highland Miniatures models and 3d stls.
nice try..they have about the same costs as they had when they where discountinued.
@@casualgaming2351 60smth bucks for 3 mounted men at arms still qualifies as unbelievable 2024 prices to me. The way GW manages their production costs is their problem; it's still way too expensive for me, the consumer. Perhaps I'm too broke for them.
"Games Workshop is the most Unfriendly Consumer Company Ever"
GW: "Hold my beer..."
Will someone please turn off the lights when they leave the GW corporate building 😉
Given that i survived having a massive stroke 3-15-2022 I think I’ll survive whatever happens in the future
All you need to do is make a list of all the war game publishers and miniatures manufacturers that no longer exist this is the nature of business GW is creating a crisis to drive up the prices and control the supply and demand this is a perfect time for people to get into 3d printing and the “ one page rules realm of gaming there are things like Prismacast miniatures which don’t need to be painted and the resin miniatures come pre colored and they are extremely wear resistant if you haven’t seen them yet you should look it up
GW squatting models that are less than 2 years old is actually insane.
Not really. They care nothing about players. It’s all about $$$$. 🤦
And you folks are silly enough to go along with it 😆😂🤣
@@sirrathersplendid4825 congratulation. You finally found out that all companys are not you friend but are in it for the money. Wait until you find out that rain is wet..it will blow your mind XD
@@casualgaming2351- I’ve never bought a single GW model in my life. There’s far more interesting stuff out there.
@@sirrathersplendid4825thanks for the sage advice. Welcome to capitalism son.
@@mattjek828 - I’ve got nothing against capitalism. GW makes gorgeous models that people love and are happy to buy. It’s the built-in obsolescence that I despise, along with WH’s terrible over-complex game system, which deliberately is never improved, but simply gets a makeover every few years so that more copies can be sold to gullible punters.
"this is the new schedule of events every 3-6 years and this will be the new normal" you made me realise i should just quit gw models and get a good 3d printer
Don’t even get me started on the “six-year index plan” I think they’re following now. I hope I’m wrong. Thanks for watching!
Those models are better sculpted too.
I've recently gotten back into wargaming after 20 years away. Naturally I looked at GW stuff first, but in the end decided on getting a resin printer and started playing some OnePageRules. It's been fun and nice to not spend $40 on a single, human-sized mini. Naturally it hasn't paid for itself yet with the initial investment in the printer, but I love the flexibility of it all and it will definitely become cheaper over time as I print more and more minis for me and my friends.
You won’t regret the switch.
I gave up on GW with the death of the WHFB, nver looked back since, and seeing this it was a good idea
1page rules is looking really good about now.
and 3d printing
Hopefully this does for 1page that 4th ed DnD did for Pathfinder.
Keep in mind Sacrosant Stormcast were in all the starter boxes for AoS in 2nd edition. Which means that the models they're leaving without support were their advertised way into the hobby less than 3 years ago to the day. If you'd got an AoS starter in April 2021, all those SCE models are turning obsolete now.
I think it's disrespectful that they decided to delete the ENTIRE Sacrosant chamber. Some models there are barely six years old.A lot of time and money went into collecting and painting them. A real shithouse move.
I think they wanted to yeet the old chunk design of SE along with any redundant units because there were a lot of redundant units. Sadly, sancrosant didn't look that chunky and could have been distinct units in their own right, but sadly, GW weren't creative in how the units functioned. So, the redundant mage warriors had to go : /
My army was filled with Sequitors and sacrosancts so my 2k list is less than 500 points now.
@@Mike69917 Why make redundant units in the first place? The cynical answer is that they can declare the old one redundant and force you to upgrade.
Being officially supported for competitive play and afterwards supported through legend-rules does not equal to "delete" models.
@@Mike69917 If they wanted to yeet old design, why some terrible 1st edition stormcast models were left untouched? Garbage dracoth models, for one? Why delete really nice, 2nd edition sacrosant chamber most people agree was excellent looking and pretty much saved stormcast from being seen as slow, boring, ugly army and made them popular?
TLDR; I fell in love with the Beasts of Chaos as a kid, it was the first army I got, and GW nuked it.
Back in the early 00s I was a young kid who loved sci-fi and fantasy. My parents would take me to the local book store and the magazine section had White Dwarf. I was never allowed to buy the magazine, but I would always look at the cover in amazement. I will never forget the cover that had Beastmen fighting against Dwarfs. I loved the beastmen look and, to my young mind, they were the perfect enemy to good. Fast forward to September 2018. I finally had a real job, making real money, and I had just gotten into 40k back in august. My LGS announced the pre-order for Beast of Chaos in AoS2e and I snatched up everything released that initial weekend. Later on I bought a second Start Collecting box to flesh out the army. All throughout 2e BoC was ok at best. I had fun with it, but I would either barely win by playing the objective or I would get tabled by the better armies immediately. AoS 3e destroyed the army. They slapped that book together just to keep up with the release cycle. Now my army isn't even valid.
I don't want to switch to The Old World. I'm tired of giving GW my money...problem is, OPR Age of Fantasy Regiment is the ONLY game I can find that actively supports "Beastmen". Every other rank and flank game has effectively ignored them. I've gotten through several editions of 40k and AoS. I've had my complaints but my models were (mostly) usable across editions. I didn't think I could be more disappointed in GW, but I was wrong...
In Kings of War, you can run them as The Herd.
@@geoffreypotter836 The Herd is the worst faction in KoW and if you click the "shop the range" button on the KoW page for The Herd, it directs you to the Forces of Nature page. Mantic doesn't care about Beastmen. The Herd is a hold over from when WFB died and KoW started.
Yes, Kings of War, 9th Age, Warhammer Armies Project.... there are quite a few alternatives for you out there, just pick your poison. Just get away from GW and start spreading better games.
Go to The Ninth Age!
I sit here painting my Beasts of Chaos knowing they will next year sit on a shelf, never to be played again - and I think with it my interest in AoS.
I use my beastman army to play warlords of Erewhon!!
Very fun game very quick and enough, army unit choices and rules to have a blast
Join us here in the old world, friend. :)
Welcome to Games Workshops Guys. As somebody who played Warhammer Fantasy back in the days, I feel your pain but I am not surprised.
Come back to the old world!
@@timiturret148i was a big Fantasy player but never really bought into AoS thank god
Any coincidence that Games Workshop hired a "fear of missing out" director last year?
Not at all.
Which is why I summon 3D printing to HORRIFIED the director.
The thing on spikebits? That was satire, it wasn't real
They started a race to nowhere against themselves. So much new releases so fast, they have to ditch not so old models way sooner than usually.
That was probably the plan all along. The weekly release and schedule they do is so ridiculous that it's not sustainable.
@@Nobleshield Not sustainable, that's the key. It's not sustainable for them and definitely not for the consumer either.
@@WolfwoodXIIIBut, sadly, it's been working for them for years. 40k was on a downward spiral in 7th edition, and thanks to GW's smoke and mirrors 8th edition killed all competition overnight.
@@Nobleshield yeah, sad but true. Thing is, can this last much longer?
@@WolfwoodXIIIthe amount of disenfranchisement they create by doing this would lead me to believe that this is most certainly not sustainable.
Seems like a good time for people to finally give one page rules a try
OpR sounds interesting I wonder how long they will exist before they disappear 🫠
GW "We've made so many models over the years and we can't support them all. This entire range from 2011-2015 is going to have to stop." Meanwhile, I'm sitting here building my T'au Hammerhead dated 2001 on the sprues.
From a practical perspective I can understand the wanting to trim production branches and dial down the amount they need to make, but that also seems very much like a planning/scheduling failure on the part of GW. If this isn't a deliberate "our kits are now semi-limited edition" move to push higher sales per unit, it is a the very least inept on the part of managment.
Yeah that's the nice thing about playing xenos. Pretty much every xenos faction is too popular to retire but just unpopular enough that anything you buy for them will likely stick around forever due to lack of constant churn of new models. I wouldn't touch space marines or especially SCE now with a 10 foot pole.
Poor beasts of chaos. They're really the biggest losers in this whole thing. You can always proxy in your old SCE models as newer stuff, and skaven is getting a range refresh to replace these older sculpts, but beasts of chaos are just screwed unless you wanna switch over to Old World.
It's always about money. It's no coincedence that most third party stockists can't get stock. GW are going back to focing as much of the sales through themselves as they can, without annoying the few third party guys that are big enough to make a noticable noise.
Anything to keep customers anxious and willing to PAY NOW! while they still can.
This is emotional manipulation, largely of kids.
Psychological abuse.
@@Zakon673 I agree about xenos, but let's face it: the old models they keep producing see their prices going crazy anway, just take a look at the Ravager or, well, the Hammerhead. These models shouldn't see their prices going that crazy for old kits, this is artificial inflation.
Yep, this feels like an entirely self inflicted problem - there’s too much duplication in the Stormcast line? Well maybe they don’t need a whole new line of minis for every edition… maybe one of the elf ranges, or Cities of Sigmar, or Kharadron, or any of the other new factions could have been a new edition release instead of more Stormcast?
This doesn’t change much for me in reality, but if the minis have a limited lifespan in GW’s own game, it’s just removing the reason for buying the official GW minis and rules at all.
This was the last push I needed to fully embrace miniature-agnostic gaming.
Ive heard it said in other hobbies that "if it's 'to expensive,' you're not the intended audience." Seems like more and more, I'm not GWs intended audience. Thankfully, there are other options.
There are options like using a 3D printer to print your own figurines.
At this point they seem to only want the worst people as their core market. Guess they deserve each other.
@Knowbody42 there is also excessive book bloat with GW. I love their sculpts, but haven't bought anything in quite a while
If you steal stuff from GW they let you get away with it btw.
Yeah. I've always been intrigued by Warhammer, but never actually got into the hobby. The more and more I hear, seems like my money would be better spent elsewhere. 🤷♂
There is nothing stopping you and your group of friends from continuing to play 3rd edition AoS for the rest of time. I know people that STILL play 5th edition 40k with 5th edition army lists and models and have a great time.
AoS 1e after the points came out is a lot of fun. Just use all those old models and the free pdfs and it's pretty much balanced against itself.
As my beard greys and my hair slowly disappear- the more I understands the Grognards of my youth:
"We have the books and the models, GW holds no power over how or _what_ we play. Screw the new edition, we're starting a Mordheim campaign."
Well; friendship over with WH, now Malifaux/OPR/Zona Alfa/Gaslands/LotR/ Bangerrang/Stargrave/Frostgrave/Majestic 13 is my new best friend.
I can't wait to get into Gaslands, $2 for a hot wheels car... and I'm free to make it look like whatever I want.
@@TravisHi_YT It's fun, just remember to agree on the scale before hand 😆
It was a bit weird having a team of 1/72 cars against my friend's 1/43th
Don't forget Reign in Hell and Space Station Zero.
@@edwardclay7551 I see your _Regin In Hell_ + _Space Station Zero_ and I raise you one: Night Thirst!
@velentr Yeah, I love that one, too.
Couple of years ago when I started thinking towards how I would spend my retirement years, I looked back on all the hobbies I'd enjoyed in previous years but never had the time to jump all-in on them. Painting miniatures was one of those hobbies. So last year I also got the itch to maybe start playing games with the models I was painting. Up until that point, I was only painting very expensive models. Why not join the crowd and drain my bank account? I balked when my research revealed all the ways Games Workshop works their con. Here's an interesting analogy that summarized GW's business model to me. Most of us own a car because we need a car. Now imagine what it would be like if you had to replace the car every two or three years. We would still buy cars because we need a car. I don't understand why gamers are drawn to GW even though they (we, sorry!) realize we're being ripped off. We just don't know how badly. I don't have a problem with a company making expansions that enhance and make their games and products more fun to play. That's fine. But when a company waits until people have invested thousands of dollars and then declares their system null and void, then you have a con. A grift. Stop selling the drug people need, but when they're sweating out their withdrawals, they are waiting beside us holding a shiny needle filled with an all new drug.
I still paint miniatures, but I print them for a fraction of the cost.
One Page Rules is free. And a couple of bags of plastic army men is about 15 bucks on Amazon.
This decision by GW has honestly killed my Hype to get into 4th Edition AOS.
AND I WAS THE TARGET, RIGHT?
I was warming up to Stormcast, I was loving the new direction the Minis looked, I loved the new Paintjob leaving towards a more Classical Fantasy Look.
HOOK LINE AND SINKER FOR ME!
I even wanted to get the new Box for BOTH armies.
But is this how its going to be? I am paying 200-something Dollars and paint my Minis, just to play a handful of games a year and then be forced to DISCARD THEM ALL to buy it again?
No. Fuck that.
Support Independant, Miniature Agnostic Games. I am begging you. Warhammer is not the only game.
GW is actively burning good will at this point, and the straws are breaking at increased pace.
First time?
Hear, hear. Seriously wtf is going on with this company, they ruined 40k, now they're destroying AoS...
Mantis Games is one of my go to and they have their own version of Warhammer Fantasy and 40K
I’m very much for finding new, and old rules sets for miniatures. There are plenty of miniatures agnostic games like One Page Rules we can use to play with using discontinued models with. There’s also Oldhammer. I’m building up a couple of Firstborn Marine armies, both Blod Angels and Dark Angels, with load outs legal for 2nd edition 40k and also 3rd to 7th edition 40k and all swap units and loadots within units out depending on which edition of the game I plan on playing that day. One Page Rules also seems appealing as I mentioned earlier. I’ve got so much Firstborn stuff that I just don’t frankly feel like trying to shoe horn into future editions of the game using counts as or some other bullshit. I’ll still buy th occasional new model for tenth and such moving forward but only if I can get them for a good deal on the aftermarket.
Nothing stopping you and your friend from playing an earlier edition of AoS, or even making old warsrolls compatible with the new game on your own.
It just won’t be tournament legal…. Which isn’t the downside you might think it is.
GW: We're deliberately stoking FOMO
Me: Damn that's crazy *prints a whole army of Highland minis*
They have great sculpts. I’m there with ya.
Keep your models and switch to OPR games, guys 7 gals; don't let a corporation dictate your fun.
OPR is all I play now, great fun!
Why is switching to OPR is better than using Warhammer Legends? Honest question, I think OPR is great.
Agreed!
Got to say, with my Bonesplitterz being nuked it did prompt me to check out OPR.
@@KnightSquire In my experience is way more problematic to convince people to switch to OPR games than making them accept playing against Warhammer Legends or proxies in regular GW games, that's why I asked. I'm playing The Old World with pdf armies, specifically Vampire Counts and Lizardmen, and it's great. I've also proxied stuff with my orks since 3rd edition of 40k, never been a problem as well.
I bought the Dominion boxset for my granddaughter and I to put together and paint. She chose the Stormcast and now I need to check if any of her units will be affected. Update: looks like her armies are safe. She is five, so I am sure she wouldn't care either way.
I guess they were stormcast temporaries
If you collect posterboys be ready to accept the fact that you have a subscription army, applies both for 40k and AoS.
I'm still using Rogue Trader figures and the second edition rule book.
This is the way! Amen!
@@Seelenschmiede”don’t cross the IP streams”
The idea of "churn" for GW products is something I would support if it meant replacing older models with new models. But what GW seem to be doing is replacing the most sold models with new replacement models. They did it with space marines and now Sigmarines, It's all of the disadvantages of "churn" with none of the advantages.
As someone who has worked in the Free2Play mobile games space "churn" is a powerful mechanic that you can use to keep a game interesting and drive sales, when done correctly. The risk with "churn" is that it gives players an off ramp every time you force them to make a new purchase, you also create a barrier for returning players to re-engage with the game.
What GW should be doing is looking at the Meta, and taking armies that are old and underperforming and focus their new content there. Every few months an updated army should be released and meta shifts. This allows you to capture the whales as they will buy whatever that months meta is, you will also catch the dolphins as they will be running multiple armies and at least one of their army's will get updated that year. The Minnows will be able to benefit as they will have one army and it will only get updates once every two years and as the meta shifts every few months they will move up and down the ranking without needing to make a purchase keeping it interesting and encouraging purchases of models to counter that months meta.
Tbh them discontinuing the newer warcry warbands makes me wonder how serious I should take gw. The point of these expensive models was always that you could buy them and still play with them for years(or decades!). If they are willing to just discontinue models that are a few years old then whats the point.
You're being far more charitable than you should be about this. Those of us who got out years ago still look on with sorrow at the abuse newer players have to endure to enjoy the wargaming hobby. GW is the most abusive of the companies in this space, but they are not the only ones.
The most shocking thing to me apart from the Beast culling is the removal of the entire SCE Sacrosanct range all at once. Those are the models that were introduced in AoS 2nd edition - you know, less than six years ago - and probably have brought many people into AoS in general and SCE in particular. They also have quite a distinct style to previous and later SCE sculpts, so chances are people like THEM, but not the rest of SCE too much. And now GW just gave them the biggest of all middle fingers.
P.S.: Not only are the Plague Monks apparently still around for months (or even years), but so are the Night Runners. And that kit is from the 1900s!
Please don't refer to the 90s like that
@@thejesusaurus6573 Terrifying, isn't it? ;_;
This is why I play Kings of War - having been a GW fan since the very beginning and seeing the cycle of profiteering over and over.
Fyreslayers homies sweating, they know they're next.
Lol they only have like 4 kits. What exactly can they do?
@@Andrew-yl7lm they can kill the entire range. thats exactly what they can do. same for KO
You’re probably right. GW seems to want a clear split between AoS and TOW and Dwarfs are certainly in The Old World. KO? Not sure. They won’t port to TOW but I know a lot of people wish they’d just go away.
Dispossessed are next, they're whfb kits. Fyreslayers and KO are AoS original factions.
They probably wouldn't get rid of both Slayers and KO, that's all their dwarves. They would keep at least one faction.
I'm highly religious person, and today I'm grateful to my God more than ever for saving me from becoming addicted to tabletop games.
Seriously, I would ruin all my health and mental strength if I worried about such things.
However, I enjoy reading books, collecting and building miniatures -and I will continue to do so!
P.S: I still think that Warhammer Age of Sigmar is the best setting ever made by Games Workshop. Simply because GW in all other cases shows its extreme ignorance in history and politics, physics and technology. So let them keep making cool mythological epics!
I love the Warhammer IP but Games Workshop is one of the most shortsighted companies I know of. They are only interested in short term profits & spewing out new items one after another. They really dont care if you find your purchases worthwhile for years or only a month or two. I have always wanted to try the table top game a try but I really think I would get more worth out of my money by digging a hole in the ground & throwing some cash in it then taking a piss rather than buying into the table top game.
That's what happens when you answer to stockholders. Your only goal as a company is more profit. Every quarter. Every decision is only for the movement of the stock price upwards.
Saw this coming years ago. I've never had the budget to chase the up to date meta and I got tired of watching my favored play style with Dark Eldar, then Chaos and then Necrons become increasingly difficult to have fun with or in the Dark Eldar's case, not able to be legally played anymore (RIP Baron Sathonyx).
So I got out. I'm, one of the guys who made the transition over to Battletech and I didn't realize then how happy I would be with the shift:
*I have always wanted full combined arms integration available to me, which 40k has never really supported universally for each faction. Where in 40k there were roadblocks everywhere keeping me from doing things my way, the answer in Battletech has 99% of the time been "Yes, you can do that." And without sacrificing a huge chunk of monthly income to do so.
*Full theater of war integration. In Battletech you could seamlessly have a battle that starts between ships in space, progresses to escorting dropships to the planet, making landfall, and then deploying your ground forces, combating blue water naval assets and even fighting in all manner of adverse battlefield conditions.
I still love a lot of the models made by GW, but I'm not collecting armies from them anymore. I can't afford it and if I could I don't have the inclination to have to update my army every few years potentially with a full overhaul.
No Sacrosanct, no party. 😢
For real though, as someone who came into AOS in second edition this is hugely disappointing. The stormcast the way I enjoy them are getting put to bed and the models are only 6 years old. That's crazy and puts me off buying other armies just in case.
...and yet, CATACHANS!!!! 🤷🏻♂️
@@jonesfigures Right? Make it make sense.
Perhaps they can discontinue about 100 Space Marine sculpts. That should free up some capacity.
They already did.
FOMO is the new business model of GW...
(Fear Of Missing Out)
Fear Of Idiots Who Doesn´t Know Business (FOIWDKB) more like it.
I eventually got over FOMO, and now I play non GW games. And that's what GW are actually scared of, people taking their money elsewhere. I wonder how long it'll take them to realise they are the ones doing the pushing away?
literally every gaming/hobby company does this though lol. FOMO doesnt work on most people, its just people have gotten so far out of hand with collecting models and armies that they feel they have to constantly juggle them around when new stuff drops. GW is luxury many wont experience and for those that do, the addiction gets out of hand for some who think they can afford to have 8-10 armies at a time and find time for them all before new models and refreshes occur that remove the ones they have.
@@foreverfornever1124 - There are plenty of good hobby companies left, ones that keep their entire range in stock or produce on a regular rotation or on demand. Most of them cater for historical gamers.
I have definitely considered getting into historical gaming. Anyone know a good one yo start with?
GW pushing to be employee of the month for one page rules
No doubt the real reason they are replacing or retiring these models (especially in the case of the Stormcast Eternals) is because AOS 4E box sets will feature a bunch of new Stormcast Eternal models that they want you to purchase. A new edition of AES or 40K is always a cash grab. There is only one thing GW cares about. The almighty dollar. Certainly not it’s customers.
So they’re un-bloating the range just to re-bloat it. Lol.
@@grahamcarpenter691 As always in the last ten years... Just look at the bloat in the Necromunda ruleset, overlapping things in books and never updating the old ones, making it impossible to play without house ruling...
surely the almighty pound, no?
Unfortunately that's life. So many of these sigmarines seem like copies of others they blend together. Many of those big monsters are awesome didn't know they existed. Nice video. Keep up the good work.
The Stormcast stuff I get - lots of models that are very hard to tell apart, and are functionally very similar (which probably makes it a bit confusing for new players). The Skaven too, as those models are really old and they seem to be aim of an update. However, the Warcry Stuff I don’t get - those models are on the whole fantastic! It’s a real shame to see them go.
best case scenario is that theyre cutting the lines to make better combi kits, it would be if chaos warriors were split into 4 different boxes, one for halberd, greatweapons, twohand weapons, and shield. on a logistical level that really annoying to keep 4 different boxes in stock, rather than just one combi kit
Throwing out the entire ruleset, codices, campaignbooks and all every few years just before it shapes up to resemble a somewhat finished game always seemed so insanely stupid to me. Now they are doing it to model ranges.
Stormcast are out, buy new Stormcast next month! Infinite Warhammer, eating itself to be made anew!
Not stupid at all from GW’s perspective. (Hint:$$$)
It’s the players that are stupid for putting up with GW’s antics.
@@sirrathersplendid4825 I do think its stupid. Its greedy, soulless and moraly bankrupt, like any big company. I also dont think its mainly on the players. Warhammer is a wargaming titan and probably the first contact with the hobby for most people. By the time you realize you are being exploited you already have 2000pts of half painted toy soldiers and the sunk cost fallacy sets in.
I recomend anyone who just plays GW stuff to take a quick look on a page like Wargame Vault and pick any ruleset that jumps at them and just give it a try.
Don't worry the fans will still buy
@@sirrathersplendid4825 Warhammer is how most people get into the hobby. I dont blame anyone looking at Warhammer and thinking its kinda neat, then a few years down the line they cant keep up with the game and are sitting on 2000pts of half painted toy soldiers. Its designed that way. And i do think its stupid. I blame the greedy company, not the consumer.
Anyone just playing GW stuff, i recomend going to Wargame Vault or the like, and just pick any game system that jumps out at you and give it a try. Self contained, made for fun of the game, small scale wargames, actually intended to be played.
@@tankbwoy- I agree with you. To a point. The best thing about Warhammer is that it gets people gaming, and that’s a huge service to the hobby. But you’d imagine people would learn from their mistakes and see they’re being taken for a ride. The game itself is terrible and absolutely not for casual gamers. Best thing would be to ignore the constantly changing GW game and use an independent rules system that works and gives an enjoyable game.
I think it was a mistake on GW:s part to just cancel Stormcast miniatures if they plan replacements.
The reaction would have gotten at least better for that range if they:
1. Previewed all new Stormcast miniatures that replace an old miniature.
2. Made the "cancellation of production" post with images that show miniatures that gets removed together with their new replacement.
(All minis will probably not have a replacement but it will look a lot less disastrous)
Personally don't know AoS good enough so have a few questions
Q1. Would it make any difference to get game rules if you use an old mini if it has the same base as its new replacement?
Q2. Do they have any cover rule where you look for an arm sticking out from a wall or similar situation?
Q3. Does the miniature height matter in any way to the game rules?
Can’t wait till they start doing this to 40K to try an sell us the same miniatures but with new sculpts 2 years later …..
Primaris 2, Space Marine boogaloo?
@@The_Blackshield Now with nurff guns and super soakers!
@@ThePlayplay64 That's the Desolator Squad, isn't it?
@@The_Blackshield yeah, but i still need my super soakers!
I expect Rhinos to disappear soon. Right now there's only a couple of units that can even go in one, won't be long before that number is zero.
I'll never understand how people can keep getting cuckold by GW and then ask for more. Except for Slaanesh players, that at least checks out.
"Aah, you were at my side, all along.
My true mentor...
My guiding Anycubic”...
That a Bloodborne reference?
@@scottlarmore5038That is indeed.
I am guided by the herald Elegoo of Shenzhen.
Moonlight Greatsword references? This, I was not expecting.
They squatted my entire Sacrosanct chamber army. Which was the only reason i bought into Age of Sigmar because i actually loved the Stormcast wizards.
I cant even with GW right now. Im glad i am working on Frostgrave/Stargrave/Space Station Zero and Reign in Hell projects atm.
Never thought I'd see the day when GW would publish a "Why You Should 3d Print And Play Other Games" article on their website, but here we are
When I got into Magic the Gathering, I got in with the full knowledge of what the set cycle was. That cards rotate out of standard, and into Modern or Extended etc. Magic's rules do not change in a shockingly huge way, so my cards are always at least playable. I can take a deck, of however old it is, join games at a shop and have fun. If I join something advertised as Standard, I know I need a more recent deck.
But this AOS thing is different. Warhammer's rules change enormously between editions, and if a unit is not supported, your unit is basically gone forever. Warhammer Legends is where units go to die. We all spend different amounts of time painting, but I guarantee even the fastest painter spent more time painting than any of us did in the process of opening a pack of Magic cards. To have all that time spent painting a unit, just for the unit to go defunct so GW can go "Hurr hurr sale number go up!!" just feels awful.
There are going to be many people who walk away from the hobby in disgust over this, and I do not blame them one bit.
This right here is why I've not bought anything from GW in years. I dont get to play often, so I'd buy stuff to use "one day" but by the time I ready to assemble and use them, that game has gone the way of the dodo.
I’m with you. I swore off buying GW minis when they killed Fantasy.
AOS has consistently been the one game that GW makes that I've been interested in (largely due to the incredible quality of their sculpts), but I'm with ya, Uncle Atom. The level of churn that GW has embraced over the past two years really feels like they aren't building anything for sustainability of keeping people in the hobby. They've adopted something similar to the practices you see video game companies use for free-to-play games; They see players as a temporary customer that you can get a certain amount of money from as long as they live in the GW ecosystem. You build as much engagement as possible so people feel a compulsion to spend, but eventually that interest falls off and people punch out. It's not necessarily a bad business practice (as they make *a lot* of money and are the largest and most popular tabletop wargaming company in the world) but it's hard to build long-term customer loyalty when you *only* consistently chase the new customer.
I'm OK with models that are 20+ years old being retired to legends, but stuff that is less than decade old? That's really not acceptable. As usual, GW's actions will piss off and drive away more of its existing playerbase and they'll need to cast an increasingly wider net to keep chasing that infinite growth that publicly traded companies believe so earnestly in.
At this point, I think they practically see their customers the way the imperium does the psykers that are sacrificed to the golden throne.
be real...there will be a very VERY small 0. percentage that will stop because of this. Most poeple will just complain for the sake of complaining and still playing(and still complain)
@@casualgaming2351 You should more carefully examine what happened with WHFB, AoS, and TOW.
@@stevenschnepp576 thats the reason I have written this.. Because I am long enough in this hobby to know that every boycott is only one release/trailer announcement away from being over. Even when GW was at there lowest in 2014/2015 they where still far ahead of any company on the market.. And when you look at there numbers of the years since then.. Most...if not all of these "boycotters" came back. And toy can be sure.. If the sales numbers for these models would be good enough... They would not have put them on the list.
I was looking to get into War Cry with the new box, but now they've gone and gutted all my friends armies...
GW may conduct its business as it pleases, of course. But a high cost of entry doesn't pair well if a feeling of impending doom and lack of support for an army/cardgame/jet fighter game/miniature titans game/PvE adventure games.
If I had to guess, I would say GW’s real motivation for getting rid of all of those Stormcast units is so they can replace them with more diverse models.
The Warcry stuff got me. Unmade have been unavailable for a while in my market, and now I'm importing at a premium price. Sucks.
The Warcry warbands are something they should do as quarterly rotating made to order sale where they put a few of them up and then make enough to fulfill orders. That way if someone wants a particular one, it will come around and eventually be available, but they don't have to keep them in stock.
I'm in the same boat. Waiting months for Splintered Fang, never got them.
I'd like GW to ditch the no model, no rule policy and go back to a paradigm of smaller number of data-sheets with more flexible wargear options. The majority of the hobby is not playing competitive games, but building an army over time. Building a collection over time is what they should try to make more interesting.
They have a decent app now and could very easily generate datasheets containing only the chosen options in your army list, you could could even add photos of your own models. They could also offer an official print on demand option for physical copies of custom data sheets!
The answer wasn't, "delete half the SigMarines."
You could have focused on factions who needed some love😢
I think the Sigmar-ines have deleted units counting more entries than certain arrmies.
I dont play Aos, but the "high elves/sisters of khaine/wood elves probably have less units than the deleted heros of the sigmarines.
Just another reason why I'm glad my game group switched to one page rules
And now AOS players know how the warhammer fantasy players felt.
It's even funnier a second time!
There are AoS players who are whfb players. This is only a fraction of AoS which has 24 factions. We can keep playing with these models the same way TOW players play Legacy Factions.
The removal of the Beasts of Chaos from Age of Sigmar is entirely the fault of the "fantasy players". Who shouted "bring back the old World"? If this hadn't happened, everyone would have played Age of Sigmar and been happy.
Old Worlds FTW
@Vasily_Kotickovitch yeah.. OK, well, that's not true. It's just GW being GW. The old world has beastmen and savage orcs, which are the old names for those factions, and they exist throughout the history so will fit at the earlier time point, so they could have easilly kept them as multi use kits. And as they are very different styles and settings, many fantasy players would never start AoS, it's just not their cup of tea (or mine). If you like it, cool, have fun. I hope they continue the factions you like.
This is the second time this has happened to me, back in the late 90, GW released their dogs of war army book just before Christmas, I was instantly drawn to this faction and for Christmas I asked my parents to buy me just these models, it’s all I wanted and all i got that particular year, nevertheless on Christmas morning I was extremely happy when i realised that my parents had bought me every single box set released just a couple of months before and eagerly started painting them to get them on the table, i think it was around February that I remember picking up my white dwarf and realised ( shockingly) that GW had decided to change tack and essentially stop supporting this faction with them now being used as allies to other armies instead, needless to say I was in abject horror at what had happened and that my new army was not essentially useless, forward many years and the release of beasts of war army book gets released… wow, instant love, yes,this is it, this is my old world faction, I loved these models and started to buy box after box, eventually accumulating 3000 points worth of these monstrous minis, then comes the end times, but wait i hear you say, all is not lost for a new game has reached us, AOS is here, yes I have to change the bases to the new round bases but this is not a deal breaker ( it actually took me ages and was a complete pain on the bottom) but I got there eventually, now I’m being told that my 3000 point hoard is no longer useable and needless to say I’m crestfallen, hundreds of hours and well over a thousand pounds down the drain just like that, maybe im just unlucky or maybe GW just doesn’t give a dam about it’s customers (I’ll leave you to decide) but either way I’m done with GW, I shan’t be buying from this company anymore , not 1 penny, not 1 mini, not once, not ever again, GW can take a small jump off of a big cliff as far as I’m concerned, and I’ve been spending my money on GW products since the mid 80’s when they had Maurader miniature in the store and have given this company thousands of pounds of my money for the best part of 40 years. F GW and their appalling treatment of their long term customers, I’m finished with them
No no...by all means...fire-sale your models because someone told you to not have fun...
Fellow viewers...I have been playing since late 2nd...I still have some of those models in play to this day.
I have 4-5 full 2k proxy armies using "dead" models...GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO HOBBY!!! Bet those Liberators that are "Gone" will be replaced by skinnier, multi-unit boxes with the same "hammer+shield" load out...so....your old dudes are definitely still valid.
just stop giving the gee-dub money to reward their dumb decisions (to drain your wallet) 🤘🤠
As usual, great vidya!
As someone who has been at an arms-length when it comes to Warhammer for a few years now, moves like these only make me glad that I decided to step away. Nothing sucks more than knowing that the army that you so lovingly built, painted, and played with will become essentially an army of proxies in a game they helped launch.
Great move GW, saved me the effort of caring again.
So the sort of old stuff is going away to make room for the really old stuff to come in and none of it will you be able to obtain due to shortages great strategy G.W
Reminder that's there's plenty of other wargames that actually respect the time and money you put into them. Its not 1980 anymore, you don't have to keep getting ripped off by Games Workshop
Isn't it like with some of the factions in The Old World? GW released free rules for them but said they are not viable for competitive play...and nobody cared what they said. These factions are played at tournaments everywhere regardless.
Thats because those armies are still being made
Not where l live. If it is legends people won't play against it. And l am talking tournaments, l don't pkay in those. Simple store games , w40k or AoS .
Yup it is. People can still play with these in 4th edition.
@@mogwaiman6048 Nobody wants to play the "Legends" rules, these rules cost less than the pixels that are built.
@@Vasily_Kotickovitch it's no different than people playing as Legacy Factions in TOW.
They did EXACTLY the same when they killed off Epic. No notice, no grace period, just gone.
It was was utter BS and he reason I walked away from GW.
GW will keep doing this so long as there are enough people willing to enable them
Where does it end? Now I have to mentally debate the likelihood the things I buy will be unsupported before I purchase anything.
A lot of us WHFB players reached the same conclusion years ago - which is why we never got into AoS.
It doesn't. Play one page rules instead.
This is why my friend group decided to stick with 40k 9th. We all know the rules, some of us only got our book 6 months before 10th came out, and there’s no point in shelling out more and more money, especially since the rules for 9th are now set and balanced.
I don't buy GW figures to play, I buy them to paint up and their figures are very nice. I have already ditched their paints and moved to AK, but this announcement makes me want to find quality miniatures from another company and walk away from GW altogether. I have been collecting on and off for 40 years, but I think this has made me really consider calling time on GW, basically because of how they have been operating lately.
Imagine how disappointed a person from 2010 would be if you told them what GW would become in this modern day.
Yeah, I think I made the right choice to find other hobbies. I still like to feel the pulse of the hobby, that I left behind, just to see if it gets better or see what interesting things happen. Oh well. Going the way of Firstborns. "Thanks for buying the models. Now buy these. Oh, those old ones are nice shelf pieces huh, because that's all that they'll ever be now."
"Don't worry - Archaon still has uses for Darkoath savagers"
It's as if GW think we are c*nts or something.
I left WH, then came back... but now I remembered why I left in the first place.
There are plenty of other miniature games if you want to keep up the hobby but not support GW.
@@piercecosmo Yeah thanks genius. We needed you to tell us that.
Irrelevant when you are halfway into a collection of minis and GW squats the remaining collection you haven't completed yet.
@@SpaceMarine_ This is the same for me, left after the end times, disgusted with AoS but saw some new light emerging in AoS 2 and 3 and now the same like destruction of factions ... Sad ... Bought frostgrave 2nd edition book this week ... This will be my new direction mini agnostic gaming
I got out of my abusive relationship with GW years ago.
But what scares me a bit is that other companies, like Privateer Press, tend to follow the crazy ideas of GW.
After the announcement I was pondering the thought of buying a box of Corvus Cabal...well screw me for waiting a couple of hours and checking my finances if I can afford it just to see that the kits are already sold out...
Effin' scalpers man. They moved in on the Skaven almost immediately as well. i just wanted one Ikkit...
Look into finding a friend with a printer and look up Heroes Infinite, The Crows Who Stole Christmas. Pretty expensive stls, printing them is also not cheap, but the models themselves are pretty nice. I have a thing about having all my Warcry warbands consist of different models, so I'll mix the plastics with those guys. Just seriously check the scale, Ragin Heroes/Heroes Infinite (two branches of the same company) sometimes work on a 35-40mm scale. Even more bloated than GW.
unfortunaly corvus cabal are sold out for weeks now :(
@@casualgaming2351 yeah, some of the kits must have been written off from the get-go...
You're probably better off without burning the money on it.
"We can't continue to sell and support every model we've ever made..."
Tell that to the goddamn Warp Spiders you refuse to update but still hock for ridiculous prices, GW hacks!
Nah, it's always about money. They want people to suffer from FOMO so they buy stuff they don't need. That stock price has to keep going up. Also why third party stockists can't get stock. GW makes more on direct sales. Were heading back to the bad old days.
Closest thing GW could do to having the models bio degrade after 5-6 years.
@@piotrjeske4599 please dont give GW that idea!
Geez how can we not consider the idea of just releasing these models as 3D printables? GWs production issues would be gone overnight if they figured this out.
It's really disingenuous of the to say they can't keep new stuff in production when they're literally bringing back dozens of even older old world kits. At least the beasts are just moving over to the tow range, not being discontinued outright. Its the fans of orcs and stormcast I feel sorry for.
Warcry is what worries me most though. That's my favourite gw game these days, and pretty much the last one I'm playing. My group treat all games as mini agnostic and don't care about gw's pronouncements about what's official or not, so this won't affect us too much. Still I feel sorry for those who do like tournament play.
Remember when GW said they wouldn't squat OG Space Marines?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
I get the idea, I truly do, of balance, ranges, etc.
Afterall, with new Players entering, one can only hold supply for SO LONG until it becomes impossible.
I myself do not want ANY player to feel like they are getting the short end of the stick just because a Miniature that might be good for their army is suddenly not on sale anymore, or the need to seek out specific miniatures for this reason.
However, when SCEs came with the new Age of Sigmar, the ballooning amount of Units was so staggering, it is kind of incredible to see them all get wiped out.
Updating the Models, and keeping them Playable would be so incredibly better.
Who the fuck cares if my Stormcast with a Horn is a Knight Ventriliquist or whatever. just let us Proxy them and be done.
But that obviously wont force players to buy entirely new armies for HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS so its easier to scrap kits THAT ARE DAMN NEAR NEW just for the sake of a "refresh"
I thought allowing you to proxy old models which don't have rules anymore as something they resemble "close enough" was a common practice in the hobby? I actually thought they even allowed that at official tournaments, they didn't care so much about how old the plastic/resin/metal was as long as it was *their* plastic/resin/metal.
OK, GW, now give Space Marines the Stormcast treatment.
Definitely glad I resisted the urge to pick up the Scaven when I did. If there's new prints coming out, the second hand market is gonna be ripe with deals I expect.
Not likely. There will probably be people rushing to pick up the old sculpts, and some will pay through the nose to get the ones they wanted. Oldhammer stuff can go for quite a bit, especially as the supply becomes limited.
indeed you are correct. Smart perosn right here. Thats the goal of any hobby, make it as cheap and accessable as you can.
"I will just sell my old minis on ebay" TO WHOM
TO WHOM???
The Miniatures are undesirable, any competitive player will avoid them, so who are you supposed to sell your Stormcast and Beastmen minis to? Hardcore Enthusiasts? Diehard 3rd Edition Players?
Beast of Chaos is safe since they are shuffled to The Old World™ the Stormcast however...
People who like the minis and play OPR :)
Maybe players of One Page Rules? I've got a Tempest of Souls box, fully complete, sitting in my room. That I had every intention of using for Age of Fantasy, even BEFORE this all went down. I've also been eyeing a bunch of 2nd ed Stormcast sculpts on the secondary market, because they've been cheap for a while.
Don't know if that's going to stay the same...
To Aquaman
Collectors, I guess?
They did this to 40k right before the release of 10th edition; original dreadnoughts, pretty much all of the Firstborn range, and a whole bunch of literally new plastic kits they released for Horus Heresy and 40k less than a year before that were suddenly thrown into Legends. “Hi, but this $150 new heavy tank. Hey, you know that tank you spent $150 on six months ago and probably still haven’t finished painting yet? Don’t bother, you can’t use it anymore.” Way to kick your player base in the pills GW. And you wonder why people who’ve stuck with you for decades are jumping ship…
I have heared from the owner of my local hobbystore that he cannot even order some model ranges from GW, for example on the warhammer homepage you can order the old world Bretonnian stuff, but he cannot order anything from the range right now. Other hobbystores in Vienna can only order parts of the range. It is really hard to get everything together for a reasonable price. I mean I will definitely proxy all the metal units. Maybe I will buy a set of damsels, because I don't have proxies for them, but the yeoman cavalry or the questing knights etc. they are far too expansive to buy enough for a unit!
Same for eastern europe. Can order some of the patrol/venguard boxes, the w40k/AoS "starters" (but not leviathan or this will be mind blowing Dominion). Ordering HH or any specialist games requires the ordering of those previous boxes (but good luck selling the new tyranid or marine patrol). Faction specific boxes can only be ordered (exeption is vanila marines/stormcasts, but not everything from those lines) when a new codex is out, after that period you get the "out of stock". Sometimes the "out of stock" is months. To get the first boxes of squat terminators we had to wait 12 months, and by then most people got them online/3d cast.
weird. Our store in germany can order anything of the normal products he wants(including the olld world boxes) Yout store owner should speak to his sales contact with GW. Because this sound like an overside by the salesperson
Try looking in the Reaper range for Damsel substitutes, if you don't want something 3d-printed.
It sucks but why sell your miniatures to game stores are wholesale prices when you can sell direct for their inflated retail prices.
I don't defend the decision and people need places to play games and I support game stores but it is easy to see the short sighted money motivation to limit stock to retailers.
GW loving the rotation scam that Magic made acceptable to people, without realizing that you can just change rules in minis games if you get broken stuff, so it's a lot harder to justify "this needed to leave standard" for something, especially now that very few people actually buy physical codex books (9th Guard player here, I'm not bitter. Wait, yes I am).
I was expecting them to nuke part of the stormcast range and the old skaven but I didn't expect it to be THIS extensive.
I know amongst my gaming group it is making many hesitant to play AoS 4.0 as some of us have lost big parts of our armies. I played Wood Elves back in the day and watched them get split into two armies ( Sylvaneth and Cities of Sigmar) ,then push the Wood Elves completely to Olde World. Also, for 40k, we play a lot of the legends stuff because we have the older models. It's almost as if GW sees their customers as short attention span consumers that just need to buy the next best thing!
Sorta related… When MKVI of Warmachine came out it didn’t take in my community, and a only a few of us are still playing MkIII, so I’m kinda sad that I don’t play Warmachine as often with as many people, and no more tournaments of a game I really loved… …but things change, there’s new blood and excitement around Combat Patrol and some dabbling in Marvel Crisis Protocol and Star Wars Legion,
We’ll see… we’ll see…
This is why we need a non-profit community rule set that is curated and organize by players. It worked really well for Epic.
Never played AOS but this type of thing is common for GW. The turn over is just getting much faster though. I think 3d printing would actually be a good thing for GW in the long run as well as the collectors. If they had any sense GW would have regional hubs that print on demand and they would only use plastic for the flagship box sets. They need to get with the times.
thats the main problem though, GW refuses to outsource other companies to make their products, and drag their asses to evolve their own production operations. Why it took them this long to develop another warehouse is beyond me. That should have started before 9th edition 40k and they wouldnt be in this situation. A similar situation would be Bandai who being the smart people they are finally gained a US based production sight to help with the Western audiences of their products
Never happen because of the loss of control over the IP. Those files would get out into the wild because someone wants to share and pow, GW loses a ton of money.
@@clamus68 Recasters and 3d replicas already exist.
@@stevenschnepp576 I know they do, but not GW sanctioned STLs, which is what the OP was taking about.
My happiness for switching to One Page Rules increases on at a monthly pace. Sounds like it might even get more frequent than that soon!
Oh no. I would care if only I didnt play OPR and 3d print anyways lol.
Come one come all folks. Here at the OPR "F**ck GW" club we dont discriminate your models regardless if they are plastic, resin or metal (unless they are radioactive) if they are old or new. You can play all your models fren and if they don't have rules we will make the rules!
ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE. They didnt need to banish these models, they could have simply stopped producing them, while still supporting them with rules updates for official play, and then give permission to players to 3D print them. This would solve several issues with the discontinuation of models. First, it wouldn't anger the players that are currently using these models. Second, GW wouldnt have to keep manufacturing outdated sculps and maintaining enormous amounts of SKUs, the players would manage that themselves. Third, this would give players that are running these figures a reason to buy the new rulebooks. There are definitely hardcore GW players out there that will quit all GW games forever because their beautifully painted $3000 army is no longer playable. I play casually, never in tournaments, because frankly, the GW games tournament players I have encountered are not fun. I did however always buy the new rules books.... until now. This move is only going to cost them money.
And this is the reason I am playing 4th edition of 40k. I dont care about GW shenanigans
I told my gaming group 5+ years ago that GW was going to be retiring models and factions more regularly and they acted like I was crazy, but even then, I couldn't see them supporting everything when they're releasing 5+ kits a week. With that many new releases, something's gotta go. I'm honestly surprised it took them this long to really do it.
Might get me some of the AoS 4.0 models. Playwise it is currently OPR all the way. Army level, skirmish. Relaxed and fun, no meta-chasing.
hen you must be new to OPR...When Lust Demons where the best army all tournaments where 60-70 % this army). As long as there are tournament people will chase the Meta
@@casualgaming2351 that is true. Luckily, I do not play in any tournaments, hence it is more casual fun 🙂 Cheers
@@MrLeviathan40k thats the best way to look at it. I like to play tournaments too..but there are far to many people out there who have build there whole existence arounfd beeing the best in a game with little plastic soldiers.