@@M16xblowDRO I'd bet you on it. If you look at Cammisa's own channel for example there is a video "Jason Cammisa on the Ford Mustang Shelby GT350 - Vintage Motor Trend Ignition Full Episode 142" which is exactly the same format.
This! Hagerty really is the gold standard for online automotive content! I don't always watch car stuff, but when i do, it's almost exclusively hagerty, because the videos are just expertly made and entertaining.
I used to collect Fieros; They were fun to drive, got close to 30 MPG with the V6, and handled like 1980s sports cars. I had both automatic and manual transmissions and had a blast driving them. And you know what? None ever caught on fire.
I had Toyota MR2 first gen. It got better mileage, handled far better, was much more reliable just an overall better car. My brother had fieros. My first one was my favorite, the 1986 in white.
Get out of here Mr. Anecdotal Evidence. Nobody cares if the Fieros you drive didn't catch fire. They still held the record for most car fires between 1984 - 1987 at a rate of over 20 per month, *or more than 20 times greater than the brand with the second highest car fire count.* With that being said, I think you should also start collecting Ford Pintos. You and bad decisions seem to go hand-in-hand.
They finally got it right the last year, and GM pulled the plug. The Fiero could have been so much more, and it was one of the best-looking vehicles GM ever made.
I bought the last pontiac....soltice....2009 convertible 5 speed turbo. black an silver, used with 35,000 miles for $15,000 in 2012. I still have it. Best car I ever had, and I've had 22 cars.
1980s GM at its worst! Really... they just built garbage back then. The Fiero was the only ray of hope for GM. And while Jason mentions the Corvette team was worried about the Fiero, I don't think that's true. I think it was the Firebird team. With better handling in 1988 and performance able to match the Trans-AM GTA, those Pontiac guys were worried about Firebird sales much more than Chevrolet with the Corvette was.
@@ChristianLanctot They were more concerned will killing anything that could take the Vette (like the Opel GT) than they were with making decent cars. The Corvette was a joke until they ripped off Ferrari's suspension.
Car was beyond misunderstood. Bought my 84 15 years old. Then 17 bought my 88 formula. When I was 25 dad and I put a 3800 supercharged motor in. 41 now, I still own the car. Absolutely a blast to drive
The Buick Reatta was another one that was misunderstood but now reviewers and collectors are giving it lots of praise. The Fiero has a lot of aftermarket performance goodies.
@@ChrisTallant What part of Michigan? I'm in Saginaw. The Reattas are out there but there weren;t a lot of them made. People have them because it was upscale people that bought them. I know of two that are in Tulsa Oklahoma as we speak. Look what Buick Grand Nationals are going for.The Mustang SVO is another one.
My favorite episode so far! I lost my license at 16 in 1991 for reckless driving (100 mph in a 55 zone) in my mother's 87 5 speed GT, identical to the one in this video. I drove it all the way through undergrad until it locked up due to me not keeping up with the 1 quart per week oil loss my senior year. I bought another 87 GT in 2000 (on a 0% interest credit card) but wasn't really able to afford it as a 2nd vehicle at the time and had to let it go. I have owned lots of fun cars since (WRXs, C5 Corvette, 3000 GT, 2nd Gen GTO, RX8) and the Fiero's launched my love of cars. I never got more compliments than owning those two GTs. And never had more fun on a back road. Great trip down memory lane. And thanks Jason for showing this car some love verses all the hate from people who never drove one. Thanks!
Ok, so you and I are Brothers. Lost my license at 17 doing 100 in a 55. Owned Many WRX's, have a C5 Z06 now, lust after Fiero's and,................. Ah heck, we are all car guys, what can be said, lol.
I Think I can relate!?!? I chased my girlfriend at 2am, through Long Beach California in Her 87 2M4 in 1987. Our first big adventure was a trip to Las Vegas, to a Fiero Car Club Event for the weekend. Another couple fallowed us all the way back from Vegas to Huntington Beach So I Could etch a Fiero Emblem in their back Window, They were from Above San Francisco. My oldest son(26) got an 88 Formula for graduation from High School in 2015, proceeded to drive it through L.A. Traffic to San Diego then to Seattle Washington while I towed My Wife's '87 on a trailer. My Son is now in College, Getting His Mechanics Certification and building Fieros, we presently have 9, 5 belonging to Family and 4 He's building for other Fiero Car Club members!?!!😉😊👍👍👍
Still love my 1988 Fiero Gt. So much so I stuffed a 3800SC into it several years ago. I always get the Fire comments at car shows :) When they ask if mine has I just tell them it catches fire all the time and I just keep rebuilding it. LOL! It was a fun car with the 2.8 but its a really fun car with the L67 in it now. Good times!
That's the exact swap I had in mind when I bought an 86 GT back in 2004 or so. Just didn't have the finances to really be having a second car and taking on the project so eventually sold the car. These days I wish it was still around so I could do that swap.
@Deezildennis absolutely but he'll while it's out add some bolt on. Just sucked that they were only paired with a 4t65e-hd that could barely handle stock power. A stick shift l67 would be loads of fun.
First car I ever bought with my own money was an 85 Fiero. 27 years and 3 other Fieros later there's a fully redone 86GT with a healthy fuel injected small block sitting in my shop. Finally built the car I couldn't ever afford when I was younger. Unfortunately I barely have time to drive it because being an adult sucks sometimes.
Funny thing that....Once owning and driving a Fiero, it seems to get in your blood. While I've never driven a Fiero with a V8 in it, I would love to. I've owned and had a Fiero as my primary driver since 89....now 35 years. My mechanic has made me solemly promise to pass it onto him when I finally do slide into that Big Fiero with a Pontiac 401 V8 in the sky, idling and ready to roll! BHE
Thank you for this video. The Fiero was the car that turned me into a car guy for life. Growing up in a working class town with a notable lack of exotic cars, the Fiero looked like nothing else, and as a 10 year old, I was less concerned about the lackluster performance. I still think the end of the line Fiero GT is a good looking car even in this era.
a new set of rims and you'd think the car was released a few years ago. I've had teens think it was a recent car. Their minds are blown when they find out mine is 34 years old.
I grew up in the eighties in Puerto Rico and we had tons of Fieros, most of the time people would try and convert them to a Lamborghini Countach. Miss those days.
The Fiero was such an admirable goal, even if it fell short of consumer desires. Also, whatever they were smoking to claim the Iron Duke could get 40+ mpg must have been some truly psychedelic substance.
@@ImmortanDan The postal workers who drive them I talk to consider it a mercy killing 😛 Among other numerous inconveniences with such an old platform, driving around in the summer with no AC gets old.
@@MediumHalf So I heard. The new mail truck's more efficient with the A/C at full blast than the old one was while not having one at all, but somehow that's apparently a bad thing.
The Iron Duke 2.5 "Tech 4" was a very inexpensive and very ancient pushrod engine that was cheaper to build than the 1.8 OHC. It was extremely efficient, with tame cam timing, 9.2:1 compression and decent low-end torque (134lbf.-ft.), which allowed taller gearing. Real-world highway fuel economy approached 40MPG, even with the 3-speed automatic. The rocker cover was stamped steel and used a bead of RTV as the gasket. The sparse bolt pattern and flexibility of the stamped cover allowed leaks to develop - and combined with the reduced sump capacity, made running low on oil highly likely unless owners checked and topped up their oil frequently. The V6 was also ancient and inexpensive but was a much better engine, and Pontiac did an excellent job tuning the exhaust note to a nice burble that gave the car a radically different personality. The 60 degree layout gave it better balance than the 2.5, and it had 50% more power pulses per revolution, resulting in reduced vibration and smoother power delivery. It had a wider powerband with 48 more HP & 36lbf.-ft. more torque.
Yeah, despite some of the info in the video. I have a 5spd 85 2m4, it's not fast, but it's fun in the same way an early Miata is, and looks fantastic. (I prefer the notchback and the early front end, which is what I have) With the 5spd I get well over 40mpg on the highway. I'm sure the 4 speed manual would be a lot worse to drive, but I've always had good experiences with the extra gear. It keeps up with traffic just fine, and goes fast enough to get you from one corner to the next.
@@TrulyZer0 The Iron Duke four cylinder is an engine widely employed and is the primary engine installed in the mail carrier & delivery vehicles where speed is not considered nor is essential. Also, while not commonly known, this same engine is often employed for routine tasks....being used in fork lifts is a prime example. I once rigged up an Iron Duke to my wife's sewing machine, but it thrashed the bobbins too much! I think, if the truth were known...she's a speed freak and wound it up so much it fried the sewing needle! My neighbor and friend's wife delivers the mail along the back country roads. She tells me she and other mail carriers such as herself relish meeting each other along back roads far out of town and drag racing each other from mailbox to mailbox to figure out who buys lunch! Of course, they have to be careful about how much they drink for lunch, as far too much mail is already being misdelivered. BHE
I learned how to drive a manual on my best friend's Fiero two days before I left for basic training. I had a lot of fun putting his car through its paces on the mountain roads where we grew up. This car will always hold a special place in my heart.
I dropped into a dealership to have a close look at the Fiero, and was asked if I would like to take one for a test drive. Silly me said yes, even though I had only driven one car before, which was the car I drove to obtain my drivers license, which of course was also an automatic transmission. Meanwhile, the dealership was surrounded with super steep hills with intersections half way up the hills. Somehow I manged to drive without any problems, even when I had to stop at a red light at one if those nasty steep hill intersections. How I managed not to stall or drift backwards at the red light, is still a mystery to me. In all my driving over the many years, I have not encountered any other hills that were that steep.
Same here. My friend owned one and that's the car I learned to drive a stick in. We had a blast in that car. He sold it to another friend and we all continued to have a blast in it. Good times.
@@davidhollenshead4892 I have had a Fiero as my primary driver since '89. Just yesterday, drove it 420 miles to retrieve a computer I had inadvertantly 'left' from my last visit to "my wife's" home 110 miles north of San Francisco. I am fast closing in on 83 and would love to see this resolved before I join this large I met her in 2008, while on a solo motorcycle trip and two years later, we wed. All of this time we have been maintaining a marriage while living 210 miles apart, but have both tired of the drive, and in a couple of months are finally going to combine households. I'm now 82, but will NOT mention her age, as she would 'clout' me with a golf club wood she reserves for driving away the errant bears and especially, cougars!
I picked up a low mile 85 Fiero GT last year for a car event and out of all my cars my kids love it the most. It’s the slowest of them all but they love the in seat speakers, the pop up headlights and it’s sporty design. All things that I liked when I was 9 and saw one in the dealer showroom. So I guess from a child’s perspective it is an awesome car.
I received an '86 Fiero as a graduation gift when I was 18 in 2008. The vehicle literally turned me into a car nut. Every time I drove it I was dreaming different ways to make the performance match the styling. These vehicles are unsung heroes of the hotrodder world!
Another stellar example of why Jason Cammisa has become my favorite Automotive journalist. I don't even care if the information is correct (and I'm sure it is) because he nails presentation every single time. So much fun!
It's not correct. The 3 quart thing was an error, not an intentional change to the Iron Duke. The fire thing was way, way overstated; very few actually caught fire and there are still 84s all over the place. Idiots setting their cars on fire for TH-cam clicks do not count. The issue with the con-rods was ONE batch, not all 84s.
@@JackBurtonPCE1986 facts! And any 84 in 87 was recalled and fixed. But an easy thing to do was get a stick with the safe moved to be full at four quarts
Loved the Fiero. As a service advisor on commission in a Pontiac dealership, the Fiero was the only recall that I can remember actually paying good money. When we got slow, I would cruise the used car lots, go in and tell the owner about the great free recall I could do on the Fiero on the lot. Did pretty well. BTW, hope you didn't actually burn one. The burning plastic panels gave off a toxic smoke that would make you very sick. Our techs were instructed that at the first sign of smoke, drop what you are doing and push it outside. Fond memories.
I've had the pleasure of meeting Jason like a decade ago. Through and through a REAL car guy. I still see him occasionally as I am pretty sure he's the only one driving an E30 touring around here. Glad to see his videos doing well and and much deserved
Pontiac teamed with Hall & Oates for the Fiero's release. There was a promo cassette with their greatest hits on it which featured both Daryl & John standing next to a bright red Fiero SE, & their Big Bam Boom tour of 1984-85 was sponsored by the Fiero. Fieros were also on display at their live concerts that year.
As a proud and happy owner of a Fiero, I have never gotten the negative views from folks. I remember the mid 80's. I remember the garbage on the road...from everyone. If they were engineered well (Celica) they rusted right before your eyes. If they had power...the couldn't handle a curve. If they drove like a dream (fast with great handling) they were a nightmare to fix/maintain (Big $$$). My 2M4 SE 5spd is just plain FUN! May not be fast...but it is fun. Especially on a curve laden road. If I ever moved back to the midwest, I would be bored to tears on those loooooooong flaaaaaaaaaat str88888888 roads. Unless I get my dream Fiero...a 1988 T-Top with a Series 1 Supercharged 3800 in the back of it.
Garbage on the road? Perhaps just the cars you got to drive. The 928 was an exceptional car, as was the rest of Porsche's water cooled mid engine lineup. As were the Fox base Mustangs, which weren't perfect, but were fun to drive.
@@d.e.b.b5788 See above with "if it drove like a dream they were a nightmare to fix/maintain". Porsche would fit that category as well, no matter how fun or reliable it is.
I knew a guy many years ago who had your dream car. Plus custom leather. And no, I'm 100% certain he would never sell it (if the car still exists). He was about as attached to it as Arnie was to Christine. I got to ride in it once. It was way nicer than I thought it would be. The car I mean. He was pretty nice too. The fire reputation, and the plastic body panels with mid-engine placement led a lot of people to think it was a deathtrap. Somewhat unfairly I think (somewhat).
@@kathrynck Yea, seems almost everyone has a story about a death which makes a car taboo. These days it is anything made by Kia or Tesla. The last FWD GM minivans are a big no in our house after a friend and her son perished in one.
ls swap a fiero gt, give it a track ready suspension, some lightweight bbs wheels, and some pilot sport 4S tires, and you've got yourself a tiny terror
I had a 1979 Pinto I bought new in the fall of 1978. Put 193k miles on it over the course of 5 years in college. I drove back and forth from Wisconsin to N.C. dozens of times. Fantastic and reliable car.
My car at 17 was a 1985.5 Fiero GT with a 4 speed manual (same color as this example here). It is what made me fall in love with cars. I miss you, Pontiac...
Thanks for this video. My first car out of college was an 86 SE, 2M6. Fun to drive, and it looked pretty good, too. Got it above 120 a couple times. ("No, Officer Dalton, never on Tennessee roads") One of my friends described it: "Imitation Italian Sports Car - right down to its name"
I love the Fiero despite it's flaws. Such an interesting story and it looks really cool! I really want to own one someday because my mental state is very questionable. Great video, guys!
I recently got one as a project. Between it and my Suzuki Samurai- I have quite the odd and quirky pair of vehicles that I will inevitably sink too much time and money into.
@@tykokavaak5784 The Samurai was very popular here in Puerto Rico when it came out. People that live in the island's boonies have a knack for them and refuse to sell them. It's rare to see a ratty Samurai nowadays. Either they are rotary-powered or restored or modernized.
Love mine. Super interesting to work on and it’s just such a fun car. Wouldn’t recommend getting one as your daily but as a fun cheap little project that stands out, the Fiero is a good move!
I drove an 84 with the iron duke. Even though the car had various issues I managed to drive it 130,000 miles and sold it to the neighbor kid. Who drove it years after. It consistently got 33mpg or more on regular unleaded.
It's nice to see some love for the Fiero, at least, the '88 V6 GT. I've always had a soft spot for it, and that red-trimmed V6 engine looked really, really awesome. I love when fun, interesting, attainable cars get some limelight (as he did with the Golf GTI). Jason's segments are the best thing about Hagerty.
the suspension upgrade for 1988 was actually the suspension that was originally designed for the car, the X car suspension it used from 1984-87 was a concession Pontiac had to make in order to get the car made. Also the prototype cars were designed with small aluminum v8s, so the engine compartment was actually large enough for V8 swaps.
My 1977 F-10 Datsun actually did get 52 mpg. We had it shipped over when stationed in Hawaii. Gas prices were high. We filled the tank for $4 every week and toured Oahu every day after work. I miss that car. It ran with high mpg for nearly 20 years over 280,000 miles.
I ha a 1980 Datsun truck...black and silver with roll bars, foglight racks, the whole deal. lasted 300,000 miles and actually drove it into the ocean and it still ran. 40 mpg, 5 speed. That thing was industructable.
My uncle has one of these with a 350, and it’s one of the coolest cars I’ve ever had the privilege to ride in. Is it the best handling car? No, is it the fastest car? No (even though it has an oversized engine) but the sound and the absurdity of it having an American V8 makes me love it. It might even be the car I learn manual on!
You sir have a talent for discussing cars and what there pro and con of cars. My only wish, these videos were longer and more in depth. Keep up the good work brother. God bless you
I had an 84 and 86! Man, I LOVED THE FIERO! It was the first car I ever bought. It was just so cool and fun to drive. I bought both used, and if I had any mechanical ability at all back then, I would have kept them a lot longer. It’s rare to see one today, but I still want every one I see. ❤
I've owned three Fieros as my primary driver since '89. Right now an 88 Fiero GT is my primary driver and in about a week my wife and I driving 550 miles to take advantage of three night's free stay at my favorite casino in Laughlin, NV. My two 86's with the four cylinder routinely got 40 mpg, but my 88 V6 5spd is more like high 20's....but it does have a 12 gal tank vs the 10 gal of the 86's.
In the early 90's I worked at a gas station when service bays were common. The mechanic had a reputation of being a Fiero specialist. He always told me how hard it was to do the most basic service because of the tight engine bay. I never saw him complain about any other car as much. We always had 3 or 4 in the parking lot at a time.
@@davee5384 my hands are large and I never had a problem doing anything on my 85 GT. I still have it but it now has a v8 4.9 which is lighter than the v6 and provides 300 hp.
@@earlrissel4454 That makes it even harder to work on, but kudos for going with the 4.9 unlike most who are going straight for the northstar. Still great sleeper power, but less problematic!
That's BS, they were not that cramped and in fact it was very easy to get to where you needed to in the engine. If you had to get really deep, it was very easy actually, because you could unbolt the engine cradle from the chassie and lift the car right up with the engine and transmission together sitting on the ground and you could do anything you needed and then put the chassie back down and bolt it right backup... How do I know this? Because I owned a Fiero for many years and did this very thing myself
I remember the '88 Fire GT. It was a beautiful car with ample room for a 6'4" person like me. Good video showing how GM again failed to produce something good until cancelling it.
My first car purchase was an 85 GT and was one of the BEST cars I ever owned !!!!!I I put over a 160K on it and it was still running great. I had swapped out the shocks for some KYB's and for the time ....the handling was great and it was fast !!!!! I was in my 20's and had some the best times of my life in that car. The only thing that failed was a fuel pump at 80K. The Fiero GT will always hold a special place in my heart !!!!!!
My first new car was a 1984 Pontiac Indy Fiero. Only about 2000 of those were built out of the more than 100,000 1984 Fieros, which was the most successful new car introduction in Pontiac history. It cost me $16,500 out the door (about $47K in 2022 dollars). Had the 4 speed transaxle with the Iron Duke, with the swoopy front end and deck lid wing that would appear on the GT version in 1985. My engine was replaced under warranty because it drank and burned coolant. The recall of all four cylinder Fieros was interesting. GM didn't change the oil pan. But they gave you a sticker to put in the owner's manual to cover the original 3 quart oil capacity specifications. The new sticker read 4 quarts, and they gave you a new dipstick that would indicate full after you basically overfilled it a quart more than the original spec. Car and Driver said another thing when the Fiero launched. They called it "what the 1984 Corvette should have been." Magazine tests had 0 to 60 mph times between 10.9 and 11.6 seconds for the Iron Dukes, which got renamed Tech IV. I still have the Indy pace car decals and the license plates Nevada "INDY" and California "84 INDY" and fondly remember the Pontiac magazine ads showing the Fiero was selected to be the pace car for the 1984 Indianapolis 500: "This year for the first time, all 34 cars at the Brickyard will be mid-engined." (Unlike my Indy pace car replica, the actual pace car was powered by a Super Duty version of the Iron Duke that wasn't available as a Fiero option.)
Even though it wasn't powerful, I still loved my Fiero 2M4, the first car I bought. It was already old when I got it, but it was still bringing me joy. It was even great in the snow. My best MPG ever was 36MPG
Another slice of enjoyment delivered by Jason. I grew up with a 1988 Fiero GT 2.8/auto and it proves the adage that whenever GM finally gets a product right, it kills it. It may not have been a match for my L98 Formula Firebird, but it was an excellent car by the standards of the times.
My dad bought an '88 GT just after I finished high school. Quick and handled well. Way fun. I never understood the bad rep that they had, but then I never drove any of the earlier cars either.
I really like my -88 fiero formula. The history of it is so interesting and special. Its just a shame it never got to be what they intended. Originally it was supposed to have the -88 suspension and a new v6. Theres so many fun things about it like the fact that the designer in secret sized the engine bay to fit a v8. Or the fact that it had higher crash rating than a Saab 900 and the highest rating for T-bone crash (one reason for the weight of the car). They also made a 4 seater prototype for -89. It just goes on and on 🙂 The story of the -84 pace car is also just an amazing piece of auto history.
I have an 88 formula and people love it or hate it. Awesome history and development even if it lacked in areas. Steering wheel offset to center for rack and pinion and other mechanical features contribute to the feel of the car. Driving a slow car fast can be alot of fun
@Jeremie West My '84 Indy Fiero taught me about lift throttle oversteer when I took a highway exit ramp (with a recommended 25 mph speed) at over 70 mph, and lifted off the gas mid-corner. The car instantly broke loose and spun around, ended up facing backwards. I used to be young and stupid. Now I'm older.
My dad‘s best friend is a mechanical engineer and he worked for GM in the 1980s in R&D. I remember at the time him showing us pictures and telling us all about how they actually put a 5.7 L V8 in a 1987 Fiero GT and on the track and the skid pad it outperformed the Corvette by every single metric that was used to measure a car‘s performance. They also built another version where they borrowed everything necessary from the Buick Grand National “parts bin” (so to speak) and turbocharged the 2.8L V6 on another prototype and that one beat out the V8 car they had built and it wasn’t even intercooled. That turbo V6 Fiero punished the Corvette so badly that the higher-ups at General Motors immediately pulled the plug on the idea and told them they would never build that performance version of the Fiero because it would crush Corvette sales if they did. Now the aftermarket has learned what the engineers knew all along. ✌️
A 2.8 V6 Fiero was way nicer than anyone had a right to expect for how it was built and the fact it was just off-the-shelf GM economy car components. A lot of people switched out the Iron Duke for the 2.8 or one of the later 60-degree V6 designs, which was fairly easy to do since they had identical bell housing.
I've owned and used a Fiero as my primary driver since '89. The first two were 86's 5 speed/ four cyl and I put about 100K on each one. Then, my wife located an 88 with only 20K on it and now has 77K. It had belonged to a Pontiac dealer, who, because it was the last year made, placed it on his showroom floor for seven years, then took it as his own personal car, moved it to Florida drove it only when he was on vacation. I bought it in 2013, flew back to MN and drove it home. My first two had the Iron Duke 4 cyl/5 speed and routinely got 40 mpg. My 88 has the V6/5sp and I have to drive it really conservidly to attain 30 mpg....but it does have a two gallon bigger tank. (12 gallons) In about two days, am going to drive it 550 miles to visit my favorite casino in Laughlin NV....have a three night's free stay there awaiting me. BHE
I'm often tempted to find an '88 Formula (GT was pretty hideous) and drop in a 3600 V6 or maybe a Northstar. The V8 Northstar is supposedly an easier fit! Then go hunting. A true sleeper.
@@joebob1538 The 4.9 Cadillac HT motor will also fit. Keep in mind that the Crapstar had numerous problems in addition to the sketchy head bolt design.
@@joebob1538 I'm fast closing in on 83 and pretty much drive my 88 Fiero V6 5 speed fairly conservatively as I want it to last and celebrate my 100th birthday by driving it. However, when I'm in the mood to ''go hunting", I open my back storage room and break out my custom made motorcycle with the Chevy 327 in it. It's been a little while since I've had it out and lately I find myself more and more ready to 'fry' another tire. The local heat all know me (my father was once the Chief of Police) and, as long as I don't get ''too out of line" ignore me and look the other way....once in a while even wave! BHE
I've owned an 85 V6 Fiero since 2012, and I have enjoyed a decade of frustration, laughs, tears, road trips, autocross, and a quite significant amount of wrenching. One this is for sure, it sure is a fun car. Not the best, but it doesn't need to be.
Nice, I’ve always loved the idea of one but it seems than an mr2 is much less troublesome, - any pointers on your thoughts on a fiero vs a 2nd of 3rd Gen mr2?
unfortunately you are in the minority of Fiero owners who don't think its the greatest gift to man and the second coming of Christ himself. good on you. I have an 86 and love it but I think i'd have to be on fentanyl to say that it's better than my 1994 Corvette. People need to appreciate it for what it is, not what it was "planned for" because even the promised 50mpg wasn't attainable; its not gonna outperform an LT1/LT4 nor a fucking Ferrari 360.
The Fiero (specifically the fastback) has been my dream car for a long time. I finally managed to pick one up this spring, and I couldn't be happier. That said, the fires were only prominent in the first model year cars, and potentially some 85s (only those with the Iron Duke). The 2.8L V6s did not have fire issues, so I take offense to you 'burning' that beautiful one behind you!
It's been my dream car since I could drive too. I seriously want an 88 GT with a Formula front bumper. Shame the second Gen never got put in production. I bet it would have done significantly better than projected.
@@HamburgerHelperDeath it's hard to tell, tbh. I have the V6 (it was the 4 cylinder that they tried to get to 50mpg), and I don't daily the car (all my driving is spirited). I could probably manage to get 300-350km/tank.
@@GrimmOutlook626 My friends parents had a Fiero when I was 17. My friend borrowed their car and I don’t know why but we were parked and smoking some weed. I spilled the bong and we had to deep clean the stinky water. Once we were done cleaning the carpet on the passenger side, we hadn’t completely dumped the old water out of the bong and I spilled the bong again! We cleaned up and his parents never knew. We sprayed that sent in it that car wash places have.
@@ka3097 I guess I mean my four-door 1971 Ford Torino was nicknamed the luff macheen I think 16 miles per gallon was the most you could ever get out of it on the highway that s*** was expensive to drive but you know you do what you had to do
@Andy Gadd personally I'd find an x 19. Had some friends that would let me borrow theirs for first dates... never failed to impress. Marroon red, hard top convertible what a car (when it actually ran; Fix It Again Tony is truth.).
@@ka3097 302 V8 in the love machine could go over 135 miles an hour floored I mean you just punch the accelerator and off you went I miss that rust-bucket
My Grandfather owned an '88 Fiero GT and despite the many drawbacks It could hang with cars that were well beyond its pedigree or cost and that made it so special...
I've had two 2m4. I had them both in the 90s. I loved them both. My all time favorite car. Hulki Aldicachi the Hungarian born designer who led the team for GM at The Art Center College for Design in Pasadena is why I wanted to become an automobile designer when I was young. The Fiero remains an achievable mid engine sports car. I never had any 'fire' issues. That was a glitch on the earliest model that was totally resolved.
I had a Fiero , drove straight through from Kalamazoo Michigan to Conroe Texas . Never shut the engine off , fueled up with the car running - 36 hours awake . It rained all the way there .
Must qualify for some kind of record. In a few days I'm driving my 88 540 miles to my favorite gambling casino in Laughlin, but am not trying to establish any kind of record.
@@AsylumSaint Surely you must have some sound reasoning to support your outandish statement? If you're gaining elevation above sealevel, then you are going uphill. If you are losing elevation, then you are going downhill...couldn't be any simpler than that.
@@AsylumSaint Michigan is a big state and Texas is a much bigger state, with varying points of altitude in both. So, it depends on the elevation at the starting point as compared to the elevation at the finishing point whether or not you have traveled either uphill or downhill....with a third possibility of no overall altitude change at all. BHE
That was an awesome retrospective, but you left out what a sensation the car was when it came out. I actually remember the first time I saw one, a white one that our high school gym teacher bought. Kids at school crowded around it like Michael Jackson was inside. It was nuts.
I remember the first time I gave my daughter a ride in my 1986 V6 4 speed Fiero. She was amazed at how comfortable it was. Sadly that was long ago and the Fiero is now just a memory. A very very GOOD memory though.
Words cannot convery how much I love my manual '88 Pontiac Fiero GT. It is so fun to drive a slow car fast. Sure, it can't hold a candle to most everything these days, but boy can that car turn. I take 20mph curves at 70+ and the tires don't even squeal. And you can get a two seater midengined classic in great condition for $9k or less. What's not to like? Thanks Jason!
@@RedonkaBert I test drove an 84 back like 15 years ago and the handling was so bad and it was one of the slowest car I'd ever driven! Got to drive an 88 GT a few years ago and it drove like a dream.
1st car in 1993 was a Fiero; followed by a Scirocco. Both odd. Both special with a lasting impression that is difficult to describe but i think Mr. Cammissa knows exactly what i mean.
As usual, just when a manufacturer gets their product sorted, the bean-counters kill it! Not so much because of the price it is likely to sell for, but they're worried about taking sales away from another product-line, instead of thinking along the lines of stealing sales from competing companies!
Honestly it was a beautiful car especially the newer look in the late 80’s. And yeah it caught on fire but so did the Lamborghini Miura and yet it’s still a legend today. And watching the driving at the end showed even though the steering has play like ANY car from the era, it still turned and handled very sharply. Thanks again Jason!!!
It was only the 2M4 that had the fire issue. The GTs and 2M6 with the V6 didn't have this issue. They made a design mistake where the exhaust was too close to flammable parts , the fix was a Heat shield. I would never own the 4 banger version. My 87 GT had all the bugs worked out they got rid of the 4 speed transmission for a Getrag Muncie 5 speed.
My dad owned two Fieros he loved, an 84 and 88. He then had a GT-2 class race car based on the look of a Fiero. I enjoyed this video as a way to better understand the car that was a passion of my late father. Thank you.
I had a 1988 and man that car was fun af to drive, late at night i would go tearing around the city (Syracuse) and just wail on it through every side street and neighborhood, skidding around corners, doing donuts in the intersections... I was an 18 yr old terror, then sadly, mine was stolen after only 10 months of ownership... No dealer had another GT with a manual available, they just had automatics... so they led me to buying my first Camaro... an IROC-Z, Today I am too tall, too old, and too many joint problems to cram my 53 yr old butt into a fiero but I wouldn't mind having one just to have as a driveway ornament.
I’m a die-hard VW guy, and not much of a GM fan. I bought a Fiero last summer on a whim, figured I’d tidy it up a bit and sell it. Now I have three Fieros.
If Hagerty ever wanted to review a more modernized Fiero with a supercharged 3800 to see how a faster Fiero would do, I'd be willing to let you pound on mine for a bit just to see if it gives you a more favorable opinion of the car.
I loved the late model GT with the V6. The headrest speakers, the looks, and it was a blast to drive! My Dad serviced one for a friend so I got to drive it quite a few times. It was really cool and rarely needed major service. The earlier models had a lot of problems, but they worked out most of the bugs in the last few years.
My dad bought me a scale Fiero GT when I was born in 1985. I promised myself that I would own one someday. After I move to another country, found one same color, same body style, with 350,000 kms and I had to buy it. Unfortunately my dad stayed in my home country and I didn’t have a chance to have a ride with him. Love my Fieros, 1985 GT and 1986 GT. Beautiful aesthetically.
I remember where I was when I first saw this car upon it's debut. We were on the 101 freeway here in CA back in the 80's driving up to my parents house in Ventura. I saw this awesome car driving along side of us, and wondered what new Italian import was this? I kept speeding up, and slowing down to keep the car in view, and never did figure out what it was. Only later did I find out it was ours, and I still think it was a great design! 😎👍✌☃🎄🤶🎅
I owned a 1991 Lotus Elan, and it was a 4 cylinder turbo Lotus-Isuzu engine that averaged 44mpg, mostly in the city! This car had phenomenal gas mileage, so I don’t doubt the Fiero has 50mpg.
My 1st car was a used Cavalier Z-24. My 2nd was a used '85 Fiero GT. I had way more fun in the Fiero! Mine was a bit special. it was repainted in a Toyota white and i had the catalytic converter removed. it was very loud and friends tell me that flames would shoot out the mufflers. I used to get VIP parking at many clubs back then as even the bouncers thought it was a Ferrari. Especially since it was so loud. I lived at the bottom of a hill; when i came home late at night i used to shut off the engine and coast down the hill directly into my parking spot so not to wake my parents and my neighbors.
Funny you mentioned that. We had a bad ice storm, the roads were covered in a thick layer of ice. Nobody was going anywhere. But my Ferio had no problem driving on ice! Since I had the only vechicle capable, I wound up shutttling everybody at my work home that day. One person at a time, of course. Yeah, we tried to fit two people in the passinger seat, but that wasn't going to happen. I was the hero that day🙂
My 87 GT did not like slippery roads at all! That engine always wanted to spin me around in the snow it didn't matter how careful I was maybe it was the 5 speed Getrag Muncie transmission ? It had so much power going to those huge rear tires they were More like snowboards and the heavy end always wanted to lead . It's just how inertia works.
I also had an 85 Fiero that I traded in for a 90 Corvette in 1993! The Fiero did just fine in the Ohio winters. I had to add a Blazer though once I bought the Corvette!
My friend Matt back in the High School had a 2M4. We had too much fun in that thing. Just don't rev it like a MR2. Now I have 2 and looking for a LS4 for a swap. It's what a Fiero should of always been. See you in my rear view mirrors.
Loved my Fiero. Had a 1988 Fastback. 5 speed manual transmission and got over 30 mpg. Rear wheel drive worked great in the snow in Colorado. If only I hadn't drove under a POS pickup truck. Fiero was so fun to drive and handled great.
Since '89 a Fiero has been my primary driver....and I recently turned 82. In less then a week, I'm making the 540 mile drive to Laughlin, NV, for a three nights free stay at my favorite casino...unless it warms up and I decide to ride my motorcycle!
My cousin, a professional mechanic, would have writers put into his contracts to ensure he would never work on a Fiero. He could not stand working on them. It made me think differently about them as an impressionable young kid. As an impressionable old kid, this video has me thinking differently about them again. Thanks JC!
As a mechanic myself I find them very easy. I drop the entire rear cradle, you can do this with a floor jack… and do an entire engine swap in only a hour or so.
At one point in my automotive career , I was a team leader at a Pontiac dealership. One member of my team could pull the cradle and drivetrain out of a Fiero in less than 30 minutes. We found that one of the most annoying job on a Fiero would be removing the fuel tank.
@@brendansmith1217 he was a very talented mechanic and often poached from the places he worked. Ended up in a career position with Toyota and hasn't had yo touch another make since.
I saw several pretty cool looking custom builds based on Fiero with lowered roof and LS swapped from Vette (and even Northstar from Caddy) including Vette axles and gbox. If such creation is well tuned all together it might be one of best budget fun sportscars ever....In fact those pioneers built by themselves what took GM half century to achieve.....Heroes!
My dad‘s best friend is a mechanical engineer and he worked for GM in the 1980s in R&D. I remember at the time him showing us pictures and telling us all about how they actually put a 5.7 L V8 in a 1987 Fiero GT and on the track and the skid pad it outperformed the Corvette by every single metric that was used to measure a car‘s performance. They also built another version where they borrowed everything necessary from the Buick Grand National “parts bin” (so to speak) and turbocharged the 2.8L V6 on another prototype and that one beat out the V8 car they had built and it wasn’t even intercooled. That turbo V6 Fiero punished the Corvette so badly that the higher-ups at General Motors immediately pulled the plug on the idea and told them they would never build that performance version of the Fiero because it would crush Corvette sales if they did. Now the aftermarket has learned what the engineers knew all along. ✌️
In the late 80's and through the 90's there was a guy in North Dakota that became the go-to guy for Olds Quad 4 swaps into the Fiero. I wonder how many of those conversions still exist?
Probably has to do with the transverse setup. (coming from a fwd car) my guess the swap involved the whole drivetrain including the gearbox, and maybe more.
Thanks to Hagerty for this episode. I have two 88 Fiero GT’s and an 86 GT and have Hagerty insurance. They are very fun cars to drive and I think they have a very unique styling. The 40th anniversary is coming up in Pontiac Michigan this summer. I’m sure there is going to have a big turn out. Thanks again for the great story.
I loved my Fiero(s). The things mentioned here are mostly true if not a little nuanced. What wasn’t mentioned though is that the Fiero still has a large social group of followers and enthusiasts. We had a specialty shop in Huntsville, AL, where they could do almost anything, including taking the best parts from a loved car that was wrecked in an accident and rebuilding it on a junk chassis, something the Air Force is still doing on its B-52 strategic bombers. I’m an old coot now and out of the community but in my day we had conventions in Florida, meets at Daytona, and Swap Meets in Alabama. Thirty years later there is still a fan club and the engine mods since the Iron Duke and V-6 have crammed that little engine compartment so tight you can’t get your hand in there. The internet fostered an active community on how to fix anything. The early year Fieros had their problems but by 1988, they were free and clear and ready to earn some bucks but GM, curse them, nipped it. I remember the night I heard it announced on CNN. Shocked. It really deserved a little better PR from columnists.
Still got a totally original 1988 GT with the 2.8L, 5 speed and her name is Lucy with less than 90K on the clock. She comes out for a drive maybe 4 times a year, mostly for a car show or the Christmas Parade. Yes I love this car and will own it even after they outlaw 93 octane...Thanks Jason for the great review of the American Mid-Engine that would have been something else completely incredible if only it made it to 1989...P.S., ya got a new subscriber out of the video!
88 GT Fastback was the best. New suspension and upgrades. I had an 87 GT 5 speed (Maroon and Silver exterior) that was totaled when a lady hit me coming through a red light. Hold on to that 88, prices are up on the 88 cars.
@@martydeeks1891 She's won 4 car shows for most original and as far as the parades, Key West has a parade for everything. To each their own...I enjoy her.
Mom bought a 1984 base model new when I was 16. The thing had manual with 185/70 tires and handled like a race car compared to the 79 Thunderbird 302ci traded for it. In 110,000 miles of some teenage hard driving it had minimal issues, other than a head gasket I replaced. Ate oil only one time when trying to keep up with Atlanta traffic on the way to spring break, after that only 70mph cruise speed with no issues, I blamed the tremendous understeer on Ralph Nader, but in the snow the car was a blast to steer with the throttle and went through the deepest stuff compared to previous cars of rear drive. The sunroof compartment was a great place to store a 12 pack as the police only looked in the trunk and couldn't see how the hood opened or that it even could. Sold it running fine 11 years later, even the factory tape deck didn't eat a cassette. Regreted not keeping it. Did get a ticket for having three people in it in Illinois, but got away with 5 people at home (2 sitting out the sunroof). At 6'1" & 5'10" I don't know how me and my girlfriend Jenny had sex in it so many times, but then my 79 Trans Am back seat seems like it'd be impossible these days too. Hope all is well Jenny.....and Kathy you too.
The Fiero was an amazing car that was done dirty several times by GM executives (and its hideous interior). Imagine if the car would have initially been released the way the engineers envisioned it, without all the issues and the lackluster powertrain and suspension. They would have sold so many cars and the 2nd Gen looked so good, it was scary, with a clear Pontiac design line together with the Firebird/Trans Am of the time.
I had an 84 4 speed car and I got around 25mpg with it. I swapped in a 5 speed from an ‘86 (surprisingly easy to do) and got…25mpg. It was a $300 car with a $75 junkyard transmission so it was a wallet-friendly swap. I had a good time with it.
When I was in elementary school, my dad owned a Fiero…I was in love with that car! Speakers in the seats, just two seats…he would drive me all over LA with it. Though I work on planes now (my dad is still an auto mechanic, has been for over 50 years), it was the dad’s Fiero that gave me the car guy bug.
I bought the 88 Fiero GT in 1988 and owned it for 13 years. It's still one of my favourite cars and was a pleasure to drive it fast. It's too bad the Fiero didn't got a successor. I would have bought it right away.
It was a cool car, especially for the eighties. I had always wanted one, and hoped they would but the Quad4 HO in it, it would have been a helluva fun car with 180hp and a 5 speed.
Great fun, immensely entertaining and dead nuts accurate! Thanks for another terriffic episode. I recall chasing one of the prototypes early one morning in early spring 1983 on rural two-lanes outside Detroit trying to get a better look. This car managed to come to market and thrive due to some brilliant engineering and beautiful design - and despite the idiotic mishandling and maybe even a little intermural sabotage of the project by the corporate suits who couldn't figure out what they had. Good stuff, guys!
I once owned an '85 Fiero 2M4. It wasn't the fasted car, but it sure turned heads. It handled great and could corner "like it was on rails'. It never caught fire (I dutifully had any recall work performed). It was a lot of fun to drive and I really enjoyed the car, but it was a bear to work on that engine as a shade-tree mechanic. Regardless, by 1990 it was a little worse for the wear. It started to develop transmission slipping, the interior was starting to wear excessively and the door panels started to warp a bit from sun exposure (despite having tinted the windows from the very beginning.). Once the A/C developed issues and needed a replacement compressor, I decided to trade it in.
These are some of the best automotive videos on TH-cam. Also, does anyone else recognize who's "interviewing" Jason at the beginning? Nice subtle crossover 😅
Yep I have owned 3 of them yes I had the first year car the 4 banger red with 4 speed trans, really needed that 5th gear! After 2 years I moved on to a GMC Truck then in 88 buddy bought the 88 Car let me drive it and it was like night and day compared to the org. I kept the truck but I went out and bought one just like in the video loved that car I was broke but still loved it. Many years later did the whole family thing kids and collage thing last year searching on FB market place saw one same colors year and in fairly good shape I got the interior freshened up it needs the same for the engine its next on the list but the car looks great and brings back to get memories.
I have a 3.8 Supercharged engine from a Gran Prix GTP in mine with an intercooler. It's a fun car in a straight line, but even with suspension mods and a big brake kit there is one thing I can't mod......the weight. It's a tiny car, but made from Detroit steel in Pontiac Michigan it will never be a lightweight sports car. My 2015 WRX which is a full size sedan weighs just a little more than a tiny two-seater "sports" car. Still, when that supercharger whine kicks in and beats a base Corvette at the drag strip it's pretty awesome. I've had so many WTF looks at the drag stip from new car owners as my 80s economy car beats them.
If the Fiero would have got the 2.0 liter turbo and 5 speed manual Pontiac put in the Grand AM in 1988, it would have become as iconic as the Buick GNX or GMC Syclone/Typhoon. I had the Grand AM and my neighbor had a Gold GT Fiero and it was a discussion we had many times.
These specials with Jason are the best part of the Hagerty channel. Jason is just awesome.
Fr, I don't even watch Hagerty if he's not the narrator
Jason who??? 🤣
@@mike_reves I think he means John Cryer/Adam Sandler
100% Jason is the best !
best part about it can he get a top gear show
Hagerty really out here creating the golden era of automotive journalism.
I think these are old motor trend videos unless I'm misremembering.
@@androiduberalles definitely not
@@M16xblowDRO I'd bet you on it. If you look at Cammisa's own channel for example there is a video "Jason Cammisa on the Ford Mustang Shelby GT350 - Vintage Motor Trend Ignition Full Episode 142" which is exactly the same format.
@@androiduberalles these are brand new videos, those ignition videos have a different format and feature a younger looking Jason
This! Hagerty really is the gold standard for online automotive content! I don't always watch car stuff, but when i do, it's almost exclusively hagerty, because the videos are just expertly made and entertaining.
I used to collect Fieros; They were fun to drive, got close to 30 MPG with the V6, and handled like 1980s sports cars. I had both automatic and manual transmissions and had a blast driving them. And you know what? None ever caught on fire.
which was better auto or manual?
I had Toyota MR2 first gen. It got better mileage, handled far better, was much more reliable just an overall better car. My brother had fieros. My first one was my favorite, the 1986 in white.
Yes, the V6 was the only one to have.
Get out of here Mr. Anecdotal Evidence. Nobody cares if the Fieros you drive didn't catch fire. They still held the record for most car fires between 1984 - 1987 at a rate of over 20 per month, *or more than 20 times greater than the brand with the second highest car fire count.* With that being said, I think you should also start collecting Ford Pintos. You and bad decisions seem to go hand-in-hand.
@@SergeantExtreme He was just lucky
They finally got it right the last year, and GM pulled the plug. The Fiero could have been so much more, and it was one of the best-looking vehicles GM ever made.
I bought the last pontiac....soltice....2009 convertible 5 speed turbo. black an silver, used with 35,000 miles for $15,000 in 2012. I still have it. Best car I ever had, and I've had 22 cars.
Yea, the Vettes aren't awesome right & Camaros as well. GM rules!
GM seems to do this time and time again. the bean counters always win out over the passionate engineers and designers.
1980s GM at its worst! Really... they just built garbage back then. The Fiero was the only ray of hope for GM.
And while Jason mentions the Corvette team was worried about the Fiero, I don't think that's true. I think it was the Firebird team. With better handling in 1988 and performance able to match the Trans-AM GTA, those Pontiac guys were worried about Firebird sales much more than Chevrolet with the Corvette was.
@@ChristianLanctot They were more concerned will killing anything that could take the Vette (like the Opel GT) than they were with making decent cars. The Corvette was a joke until they ripped off Ferrari's suspension.
I would totally watch a con movie with Jason in the lead role...
Hagerty, make it happen!!!
For real. Any sort of car related movie with Jason is a day 1 must watch.
There’s that one with adam sandler called uncut diamond that I’ve heard is pretty good.
Yeah, driving a Fiero. 😎😉
This would be absolutely amazing
The Michigander Job
Car was beyond misunderstood. Bought my 84 15 years old. Then 17 bought my 88 formula. When I was 25 dad and I put a 3800 supercharged motor in. 41 now, I still own the car. Absolutely a blast to drive
The Buick Reatta was another one that was misunderstood but now reviewers and collectors are giving it lots of praise. The Fiero has a lot of aftermarket performance goodies.
@@edwardskoda2409 I saw a Reatta in Tulsa Oklahoma.. without rust. I stared at it for almost 20 minutes before the owner asked me what I was doing....
@@ChrisTallant LOL, What did you tell him?
@@edwardskoda2409 “Sorry, I’m from Michigan, most of these went back to the earth like Mother Nature intended. But gorgeous car!”
@@ChrisTallant What part of Michigan? I'm in Saginaw. The Reattas are out there but there weren;t a lot of them made. People have them because it was upscale people that bought them. I know of two that are in Tulsa Oklahoma as we speak. Look what Buick Grand Nationals are going for.The Mustang SVO is another one.
My favorite episode so far! I lost my license at 16 in 1991 for reckless driving (100 mph in a 55 zone) in my mother's 87 5 speed GT, identical to the one in this video. I drove it all the way through undergrad until it locked up due to me not keeping up with the 1 quart per week oil loss my senior year. I bought another 87 GT in 2000 (on a 0% interest credit card) but wasn't really able to afford it as a 2nd vehicle at the time and had to let it go. I have owned lots of fun cars since (WRXs, C5 Corvette, 3000 GT, 2nd Gen GTO, RX8) and the Fiero's launched my love of cars. I never got more compliments than owning those two GTs. And never had more fun on a back road. Great trip down memory lane. And thanks Jason for showing this car some love verses all the hate from people who never drove one. Thanks!
Ok, so you and I are Brothers. Lost my license at 17 doing 100 in a 55. Owned Many WRX's, have a C5 Z06 now, lust after Fiero's and,.................
Ah heck, we are all car guys, what can be said, lol.
I wouldn’t call this video “love”
I Think I can relate!?!? I chased my girlfriend at 2am, through Long Beach California in Her 87 2M4 in 1987. Our first big adventure was a trip to Las Vegas, to a Fiero Car Club Event for the weekend. Another couple fallowed us all the way back from Vegas to Huntington Beach So I Could etch a Fiero Emblem in their back Window, They were from Above San Francisco. My oldest son(26) got an 88 Formula for graduation from High School in 2015, proceeded to drive it through L.A. Traffic to San Diego then to Seattle Washington while I towed My Wife's '87 on a trailer. My Son is now in College, Getting His Mechanics Certification and building Fieros, we presently have 9, 5 belonging to Family and 4 He's building for other Fiero Car Club members!?!!😉😊👍👍👍
My dream project, if possible, would be a Fiero GT, with a 3.8 l Buick Grand National transplant !
@@russelllewis224 Love it! The definition of 'Murica right there.
Still love my 1988 Fiero Gt. So much so I stuffed a 3800SC into it several years ago. I always get the Fire comments at car shows :) When they ask if mine has I just tell them it catches fire all the time and I just keep rebuilding it. LOL! It was a fun car with the 2.8 but its a really fun car with the L67 in it now. Good times!
A mildly built L67 really transformed these cars and the L67 is one of my fave gm engines.
That's the exact swap I had in mind when I bought an 86 GT back in 2004 or so. Just didn't have the finances to really be having a second car and taking on the project so eventually sold the car. These days I wish it was still around so I could do that swap.
@@repnatl Hell even a bone stock L67 swapped fieros are stupid quick.
@@grumpychocobo Grab one up. They aren't getting any cheaper.
@Deezildennis absolutely but he'll while it's out add some bolt on. Just sucked that they were only paired with a 4t65e-hd that could barely handle stock power. A stick shift l67 would be loads of fun.
First car I ever bought with my own money was an 85 Fiero. 27 years and 3 other Fieros later there's a fully redone 86GT with a healthy fuel injected small block sitting in my shop. Finally built the car I couldn't ever afford when I was younger. Unfortunately I barely have time to drive it because being an adult sucks sometimes.
Funny thing that....Once owning and driving a Fiero, it seems to get in your blood. While I've never driven a Fiero with a V8 in it, I would love to.
I've owned and had a Fiero as my primary driver since 89....now 35 years. My mechanic has made me solemly promise to pass it onto him when I finally do slide into that Big Fiero with a Pontiac 401 V8 in the sky, idling and ready to roll! BHE
Thank you for this video. The Fiero was the car that turned me into a car guy for life. Growing up in a working class town with a notable lack of exotic cars, the Fiero looked like nothing else, and as a 10 year old, I was less concerned about the lackluster performance. I still think the end of the line Fiero GT is a good looking car even in this era.
a new set of rims and you'd think the car was released a few years ago. I've had teens think it was a recent car. Their minds are blown when they find out mine is 34 years old.
@@BobSchmidt
I think the only external giveaway that it's an old car is the pop-up headlights.
I grew up in the eighties in Puerto Rico and we had tons of Fieros, most of the time people would try and convert them to a Lamborghini Countach. Miss those days.
The Fiero was such an admirable goal, even if it fell short of consumer desires. Also, whatever they were smoking to claim the Iron Duke could get 40+ mpg must have been some truly psychedelic substance.
I had an 86 5-speed with the Iron Puke. If I granny drove it, I could get 36MPG.
And that boat anchor still lives on in the remaining LLVs in the USPS fleet
@@MediumHalf And it's what's been killing them off too
@@ImmortanDan The postal workers who drive them I talk to consider it a mercy killing 😛 Among other numerous inconveniences with such an old platform, driving around in the summer with no AC gets old.
@@MediumHalf So I heard. The new mail truck's more efficient with the A/C at full blast than the old one was while not having one at all, but somehow that's apparently a bad thing.
The Iron Duke 2.5 "Tech 4" was a very inexpensive and very ancient pushrod engine that was cheaper to build than the 1.8 OHC. It was extremely efficient, with tame cam timing, 9.2:1 compression and decent low-end torque (134lbf.-ft.), which allowed taller gearing. Real-world highway fuel economy approached 40MPG, even with the 3-speed automatic. The rocker cover was stamped steel and used a bead of RTV as the gasket. The sparse bolt pattern and flexibility of the stamped cover allowed leaks to develop - and combined with the reduced sump capacity, made running low on oil highly likely unless owners checked and topped up their oil frequently.
The V6 was also ancient and inexpensive but was a much better engine, and Pontiac did an excellent job tuning the exhaust note to a nice burble that gave the car a radically different personality. The 60 degree layout gave it better balance than the 2.5, and it had 50% more power pulses per revolution, resulting in reduced vibration and smoother power delivery. It had a wider powerband with 48 more HP & 36lbf.-ft. more torque.
Yeah, despite some of the info in the video. I have a 5spd 85 2m4, it's not fast, but it's fun in the same way an early Miata is, and looks fantastic. (I prefer the notchback and the early front end, which is what I have)
With the 5spd I get well over 40mpg on the highway. I'm sure the 4 speed manual would be a lot worse to drive, but I've always had good experiences with the extra gear. It keeps up with traffic just fine, and goes fast enough to get you from one corner to the next.
I'm curious about the Quad4 in the Fiero. My friend loved the Quad4 in his parents Grand Am.
The Chrysler 2.2 was better in every way, the Iron Duke was an obsolete turd for much of its lifespan.
The Chevy 2.8 V6 is a legendary motor. They are bulletproof.
@@TrulyZer0 The Iron Duke four cylinder is an engine widely employed and is the primary engine installed in the mail carrier & delivery vehicles where speed is not considered nor is essential.
Also, while not commonly known, this same engine is often employed for routine tasks....being used in fork lifts is a prime example.
I once rigged up an Iron Duke to my wife's sewing machine, but it thrashed the bobbins too much! I think, if the truth were known...she's a speed freak and wound it up so much it fried the sewing needle!
My neighbor and friend's wife delivers the mail along the back country roads. She tells me she and other mail carriers such as herself relish meeting each other along back roads far out of town and drag racing each other from mailbox to mailbox to figure out who buys lunch! Of course, they have to be careful about how much they drink for lunch, as far too much mail is already being misdelivered. BHE
I learned how to drive a manual on my best friend's Fiero two days before I left for basic training. I had a lot of fun putting his car through its paces on the mountain roads where we grew up. This car will always hold a special place in my heart.
I dropped into a dealership to have a close look at the Fiero, and was asked if I would like to take one for a test drive. Silly me said yes, even though I had only driven one car before, which was the car I drove to obtain my drivers license, which of course was also an automatic transmission. Meanwhile, the dealership was surrounded with super steep hills with intersections half way up the hills. Somehow I manged to drive without any problems, even when I had to stop at a red light at one if those nasty steep hill intersections. How I managed not to stall or drift backwards at the red light, is still a mystery to me. In all my driving over the many years, I have not encountered any other hills that were that steep.
The Fiero was a decent car, which was competitive to imported sports cars in it's price range...
Same here. My friend owned one and that's the car I learned to drive a stick in. We had a blast in that car. He sold it to another friend and we all continued to have a blast in it. Good times.
@@davidhollenshead4892 I have had a Fiero as my primary driver since '89. Just yesterday, drove it 420 miles to retrieve a computer I had inadvertantly 'left' from my last visit to "my wife's" home 110 miles north of San Francisco. I am fast closing in on 83 and would love to see this resolved before I join this large
I met her in 2008, while on a solo motorcycle trip and two years later, we wed. All of this time we have been maintaining a marriage while living 210 miles apart, but have both tired of the drive, and in a couple of months are finally going to combine households. I'm now 82, but will NOT mention her age, as she would 'clout' me with a golf club wood she reserves for driving away the errant bears and especially, cougars!
I picked up a low mile 85 Fiero GT last year for a car event and out of all my cars my kids love it the most. It’s the slowest of them all but they love the in seat speakers, the pop up headlights and it’s sporty design. All things that I liked when I was 9 and saw one in the dealer showroom. So I guess from a child’s perspective it is an awesome car.
They can be great cars with the 3800sc engine swap
I received an '86 Fiero as a graduation gift when I was 18 in 2008. The vehicle literally turned me into a car nut. Every time I drove it I was dreaming different ways to make the performance match the styling. These vehicles are unsung heroes of the hotrodder world!
Another stellar example of why Jason Cammisa has become my favorite Automotive journalist. I don't even care if the information is correct (and I'm sure it is) because he nails presentation every single time. So much fun!
I hope it's an '88.
It's not correct. The 3 quart thing was an error, not an intentional change to the Iron Duke. The fire thing was way, way overstated; very few actually caught fire and there are still 84s all over the place. Idiots setting their cars on fire for TH-cam clicks do not count. The issue with the con-rods was ONE batch, not all 84s.
@@JackBurtonPCE1986 facts! And any 84 in 87 was recalled and fixed. But an easy thing to do was get a stick with the safe moved to be full at four quarts
@@thesovietvorona1007 Yep. Mine's got the updated 4 qt dipstick.
@@JackBurtonPCE1986 sames
Loved the Fiero. As a service advisor on commission in a Pontiac dealership, the Fiero was the only recall that I can remember actually paying good money. When we got slow, I would cruise the used car lots, go in and tell the owner about the great free recall I could do on the Fiero on the lot. Did pretty well.
BTW, hope you didn't actually burn one. The burning plastic panels gave off a toxic smoke that would make you very sick. Our techs were instructed that at the first sign of smoke, drop what you are doing and push it outside. Fond memories.
Second only to Volvo in crash test results among all mass produced vehicles sold in The U.S. during its manufacturing run.
I've had the pleasure of meeting Jason like a decade ago. Through and through a REAL car guy. I still see him occasionally as I am pretty sure he's the only one driving an E30 touring around here.
Glad to see his videos doing well and and much deserved
Pontiac teamed with Hall & Oates for the Fiero's release. There was a promo cassette with their greatest hits on it which featured both Daryl & John standing next to a bright red Fiero SE, & their Big Bam Boom tour of 1984-85 was sponsored by the Fiero. Fieros were also on display at their live concerts that year.
As a proud and happy owner of a Fiero, I have never gotten the negative views from folks. I remember the mid 80's. I remember the garbage on the road...from everyone. If they were engineered well (Celica) they rusted right before your eyes. If they had power...the couldn't handle a curve. If they drove like a dream (fast with great handling) they were a nightmare to fix/maintain (Big $$$). My 2M4 SE 5spd is just plain FUN! May not be fast...but it is fun. Especially on a curve laden road. If I ever moved back to the midwest, I would be bored to tears on those loooooooong flaaaaaaaaaat str88888888 roads. Unless I get my dream Fiero...a 1988 T-Top with a Series 1 Supercharged 3800 in the back of it.
Garbage on the road? Perhaps just the cars you got to drive. The 928 was an exceptional car, as was the rest of Porsche's water cooled mid engine lineup. As were the Fox base Mustangs, which weren't perfect, but were fun to drive.
@@d.e.b.b5788 See above with "if it drove like a dream they were a nightmare to fix/maintain". Porsche would fit that category as well, no matter how fun or reliable it is.
I knew a guy many years ago who had your dream car. Plus custom leather.
And no, I'm 100% certain he would never sell it (if the car still exists). He was about as attached to it as Arnie was to Christine.
I got to ride in it once. It was way nicer than I thought it would be. The car I mean. He was pretty nice too.
The fire reputation, and the plastic body panels with mid-engine placement led a lot of people to think it was a deathtrap. Somewhat unfairly I think (somewhat).
@@kathrynck Yea, seems almost everyone has a story about a death which makes a car taboo. These days it is anything made by Kia or Tesla. The last FWD GM minivans are a big no in our house after a friend and her son perished in one.
ls swap a fiero gt, give it a track ready suspension, some lightweight bbs wheels, and some pilot sport 4S tires, and you've got yourself a tiny terror
I had a 1979 Pinto I bought new in the fall of 1978. Put 193k miles on it over the course of 5 years in college. I drove back and forth from Wisconsin to N.C. dozens of times. Fantastic and reliable car.
My car at 17 was a 1985.5 Fiero GT with a 4 speed manual (same color as this example here). It is what made me fall in love with cars. I miss you, Pontiac...
I feel i should mention Ronald Finger's Fiero restoration, was quite the rollercoaster. He did an amazing job
Yeah, its the only thing missing in this video
Thanks for this video. My first car out of college was an 86 SE, 2M6. Fun to drive, and it looked pretty good, too. Got it above 120 a couple times. ("No, Officer Dalton, never on Tennessee roads") One of my friends described it: "Imitation Italian Sports Car - right down to its name"
Crazy Jimmy is still confused.
The amount I've learned from JC and then claimed I've known for years is borderline criminal. Keep up the great work!
I love the Fiero despite it's flaws. Such an interesting story and it looks really cool! I really want to own one someday because my mental state is very questionable.
Great video, guys!
I recently got one as a project. Between it and my Suzuki Samurai- I have quite the odd and quirky pair of vehicles that I will inevitably sink too much time and money into.
Buy two Fiero's so you have enough good parts to build a nice one...
I've always liked how they looked. I'm also touched in the head, so I wouldn"t mind owning one neither. 😄
@@tykokavaak5784 The Samurai was very popular here in Puerto Rico when it came out. People that live in the island's boonies have a knack for them and refuse to sell them. It's rare to see a ratty Samurai nowadays. Either they are rotary-powered or restored or modernized.
Love mine. Super interesting to work on and it’s just such a fun car. Wouldn’t recommend getting one as your daily but as a fun cheap little project that stands out, the Fiero is a good move!
I drove an 84 with the iron duke. Even though the car had various issues I managed to drive it 130,000 miles and sold it to the neighbor kid. Who drove it years after. It consistently got 33mpg or more on regular unleaded.
It's nice to see some love for the Fiero, at least, the '88 V6 GT. I've always had a soft spot for it, and that red-trimmed V6 engine looked really, really awesome. I love when fun, interesting, attainable cars get some limelight (as he did with the Golf GTI). Jason's segments are the best thing about Hagerty.
Buddy of mine had one! Great LITTLE car!! We stuffed 6 people in one and drove 20 miles to a concert!
the suspension upgrade for 1988 was actually the suspension that was originally designed for the car, the X car suspension it used from 1984-87 was a concession Pontiac had to make in order to get the car made. Also the prototype cars were designed with small aluminum v8s, so the engine compartment was actually large enough for V8 swaps.
My uncle has one with a 350 in it so… yeah it will fit small blocks 😂
GM does this all the time. Just when they finally get a car right, they kill it.
88s drive great, but getting suspension parts is not always fun.
@@BobSchmidt breaks are a pain too...
The 88 update was part of the X-11 package originally IIRC. Not sure why it wasnt done, but originally the car wasnt really powered enough to need it.
My 1977 F-10 Datsun actually did get 52 mpg. We had it shipped over when stationed in Hawaii. Gas prices were high. We filled the tank for $4 every week and toured Oahu every day after work. I miss that car. It ran with high mpg for nearly 20 years over 280,000 miles.
I ha a 1980 Datsun truck...black and silver with roll bars, foglight racks, the whole deal. lasted 300,000 miles and actually drove it into the ocean and it still ran. 40 mpg, 5 speed. That thing was industructable.
My uncle has one of these with a 350, and it’s one of the coolest cars I’ve ever had the privilege to ride in. Is it the best handling car? No, is it the fastest car? No (even though it has an oversized engine) but the sound and the absurdity of it having an American V8 makes me love it. It might even be the car I learn manual on!
You sir have a talent for discussing cars and what there pro and con of cars. My only wish, these videos were longer and more in depth. Keep up the good work brother. God bless you
I had an 84 and 86! Man, I LOVED THE FIERO! It was the first car I ever bought. It was just so cool and fun to drive. I bought both used, and if I had any mechanical ability at all back then, I would have kept them a lot longer. It’s rare to see one today, but I still want every one I see. ❤
I've owned three Fieros as my primary driver since '89. Right now an 88 Fiero GT is my primary driver and in about a week my wife and I driving 550 miles to take advantage of three night's free stay at my favorite casino in Laughlin, NV.
My two 86's with the four cylinder routinely got 40 mpg, but my 88 V6 5spd is more like high 20's....but it does have a 12 gal tank vs the 10 gal of the 86's.
In the early 90's I worked at a gas station when service bays were common. The mechanic had a reputation of being a Fiero specialist. He always told me how hard it was to do the most basic service because of the tight engine bay. I never saw him complain about any other car as much. We always had 3 or 4 in the parking lot at a time.
Truth. Specially if it had the v6. If you had hands bigger then a pre teen girl, just changing the back spark plugs was... not fun.
@@davee5384 my hands are large and I never had a problem doing anything on my 85 GT. I still have it but it now has a v8 4.9 which is lighter than the v6 and provides 300 hp.
@@earlrissel4454 That makes it even harder to work on, but kudos for going with the 4.9 unlike most who are going straight for the northstar. Still great sleeper power, but less problematic!
That's BS,
they were not that cramped and in fact it was very easy to get to where you needed to in the engine. If you had to get really deep, it was very easy actually, because you could unbolt the engine cradle from the chassie and lift the car right up with the engine and transmission together sitting on the ground and you could do anything you needed and then put the chassie back down and bolt it right backup...
How do I know this? Because I owned a Fiero for many years and did this very thing myself
Sounded like that dude really liked Fierros
I remember the '88 Fire GT. It was a beautiful car with ample room for a 6'4" person like me. Good video showing how GM again failed to produce something good until cancelling it.
My first car purchase was an 85 GT and was one of the BEST cars I ever owned !!!!!I I put over a 160K on it and it was still running great. I had swapped out
the shocks for some KYB's and for the time ....the handling was great and it was fast !!!!! I was in my 20's and had some the best times of my life in that car.
The only thing that failed was a fuel pump at 80K. The Fiero GT will always hold a special place in my heart !!!!!!
My first new car was a 1984 Pontiac Indy Fiero. Only about 2000 of those were built out of the more than 100,000 1984 Fieros, which was the most successful new car introduction in Pontiac history. It cost me $16,500 out the door (about $47K in 2022 dollars). Had the 4 speed transaxle with the Iron Duke, with the swoopy front end and deck lid wing that would appear on the GT version in 1985. My engine was replaced under warranty because it drank and burned coolant.
The recall of all four cylinder Fieros was interesting. GM didn't change the oil pan. But they gave you a sticker to put in the owner's manual to cover the original 3 quart oil capacity specifications. The new sticker read 4 quarts, and they gave you a new dipstick that would indicate full after you basically overfilled it a quart more than the original spec.
Car and Driver said another thing when the Fiero launched. They called it "what the 1984 Corvette should have been." Magazine tests had 0 to 60 mph times between 10.9 and 11.6 seconds for the Iron Dukes, which got renamed Tech IV.
I still have the Indy pace car decals and the license plates Nevada "INDY" and California "84 INDY" and fondly remember the Pontiac magazine ads showing the Fiero was selected to be the pace car for the 1984 Indianapolis 500: "This year for the first time, all 34 cars at the Brickyard will be mid-engined." (Unlike my Indy pace car replica, the actual pace car was powered by a Super Duty version of the Iron Duke that wasn't available as a Fiero option.)
Could you imagine if the Fiero had survived GM mis-management and the 2nd Gen Fiero had been built and paced Indy again?!?!?
I had the same car, I had to put a new motor in I wasn't told about that recall all on me, but I still loved that Indy , my plates said Indy 84👍
Even though it wasn't powerful, I still loved my Fiero 2M4, the first car I bought.
It was already old when I got it, but it was still bringing me joy. It was even great in the snow.
My best MPG ever was 36MPG
Another slice of enjoyment delivered by Jason. I grew up with a 1988 Fiero GT 2.8/auto and it proves the adage that whenever GM finally gets a product right, it kills it. It may not have been a match for my L98 Formula Firebird, but it was an excellent car by the standards of the times.
My dad bought an '88 GT just after I finished high school. Quick and handled well. Way fun. I never understood the bad rep that they had, but then I never drove any of the earlier cars either.
I really like my -88 fiero formula. The history of it is so interesting and special.
Its just a shame it never got to be what they intended.
Originally it was supposed to have the -88 suspension and a new v6.
Theres so many fun things about it like the fact that the designer in secret sized the engine bay to fit a v8.
Or the fact that it had higher crash rating than a Saab 900 and the highest rating for T-bone crash (one reason for the weight of the car).
They also made a 4 seater prototype for -89.
It just goes on and on 🙂
The story of the -84 pace car is also just an amazing piece of auto history.
I have an 88 formula and people love it or hate it. Awesome history and development even if it lacked in areas. Steering wheel offset to center for rack and pinion and other mechanical features contribute to the feel of the car. Driving a slow car fast can be alot of fun
The panels-on-spaceframe design proved it could be done, and the Saturn was born
@Jeremie West My '84 Indy Fiero taught me about lift throttle oversteer when I took a highway exit ramp (with a recommended 25 mph speed) at over 70 mph, and lifted off the gas mid-corner. The car instantly broke loose and spun around, ended up facing backwards. I used to be young and stupid. Now I'm older.
My dad‘s best friend is a mechanical engineer and he worked for GM in the 1980s in R&D. I remember at the time him showing us pictures and telling us all about how they actually put a 5.7 L V8 in a 1987 Fiero GT and on the track and the skid pad it outperformed the Corvette by every single metric that was used to measure a car‘s performance. They also built another version where they borrowed everything necessary from the Buick Grand National “parts bin” (so to speak) and turbocharged the 2.8L V6 on another prototype and that one beat out the V8 car they had built and it wasn’t even intercooled. That turbo V6 Fiero punished the Corvette so badly that the higher-ups at General Motors immediately pulled the plug on the idea and told them they would never build that performance version of the Fiero because it would crush Corvette sales if they did. Now the aftermarket has learned what the engineers knew all along. ✌️
A 2.8 V6 Fiero was way nicer than anyone had a right to expect for how it was built and the fact it was just off-the-shelf GM economy car components. A lot of people switched out the Iron Duke for the 2.8 or one of the later 60-degree V6 designs, which was fairly easy to do since they had identical bell housing.
I've owned and used a Fiero as my primary driver since '89. The first two were 86's 5 speed/ four cyl and I put about 100K on each one. Then, my wife located an 88 with only 20K on it and now has 77K. It had belonged to a Pontiac dealer, who, because it was the last year made, placed it on his showroom floor for seven years, then took it as his own personal car, moved it to Florida drove it only when he was on vacation. I bought it in 2013, flew back to MN and drove it home. My first two had the Iron Duke 4 cyl/5 speed and routinely got 40 mpg. My 88 has the V6/5sp and I have to drive it really conservidly to attain 30 mpg....but it does have a two gallon bigger tank. (12 gallons)
In about two days, am going to drive it 550 miles to visit my favorite casino in Laughlin NV....have a three night's free stay there awaiting me. BHE
I'm often tempted to find an '88 Formula (GT was pretty hideous) and drop in a 3600 V6 or maybe a Northstar. The V8 Northstar is supposedly an easier fit!
Then go hunting. A true sleeper.
@@joebob1538 The 4.9 Cadillac HT motor will also fit. Keep in mind that the Crapstar had numerous problems in addition to the sketchy head bolt design.
@@joebob1538 I'm fast closing in on 83 and pretty much drive my 88 Fiero V6 5 speed fairly conservatively as I want it to last and celebrate my 100th birthday by driving it.
However, when I'm in the mood to ''go hunting", I open my back storage room and break out my custom made motorcycle with the Chevy 327 in it. It's been a little while since I've had it out and lately I find myself more and more ready to 'fry' another tire.
The local heat all know me (my father was once the Chief of Police) and, as long as I don't get ''too out of line" ignore me and look the other way....once in a while even wave! BHE
I've owned an 85 V6 Fiero since 2012, and I have enjoyed a decade of frustration, laughs, tears, road trips, autocross, and a quite significant amount of wrenching. One this is for sure, it sure is a fun car. Not the best, but it doesn't need to be.
Same! 85 V6 with the 4 speed manual!
Is it true one has to de-mount the engine mounts to change spark plugs on a V6 Fiero?
@@revilopendleton4720 not at all. The rears are more of a pain to get to but it's all on top
Nice, I’ve always loved the idea of one but it seems than an mr2 is much less troublesome, - any pointers on your thoughts on a fiero vs a 2nd of 3rd Gen mr2?
unfortunately you are in the minority of Fiero owners who don't think its the greatest gift to man and the second coming of Christ himself. good on you.
I have an 86 and love it but I think i'd have to be on fentanyl to say that it's better than my 1994 Corvette. People need to appreciate it for what it is, not what it was "planned for" because even the promised 50mpg wasn't attainable; its not gonna outperform an LT1/LT4 nor a fucking Ferrari 360.
The Fiero (specifically the fastback) has been my dream car for a long time. I finally managed to pick one up this spring, and I couldn't be happier.
That said, the fires were only prominent in the first model year cars, and potentially some 85s (only those with the Iron Duke). The 2.8L V6s did not have fire issues, so I take offense to you 'burning' that beautiful one behind you!
Congratulations on achieving your dream! That is a great feeling. Wishing you many years of happy motoring and thrilling twisties. Cheers!
It's been my dream car since I could drive too. I seriously want an 88 GT with a Formula front bumper. Shame the second Gen never got put in production. I bet it would have done significantly better than projected.
What kind of gas mileage do you get?
@@HamburgerHelperDeath it's hard to tell, tbh. I have the V6 (it was the 4 cylinder that they tried to get to 50mpg), and I don't daily the car (all my driving is spirited).
I could probably manage to get 300-350km/tank.
@@GrimmOutlook626 My friends parents had a Fiero when I was 17. My friend borrowed their car and I don’t know why but we were parked and smoking some weed. I spilled the bong and we had to deep clean the stinky water. Once we were done cleaning the carpet on the passenger side, we hadn’t completely dumped the old water out of the bong and I spilled the bong again! We cleaned up and his parents never knew. We sprayed that sent in it that car wash places have.
First car I ever owned was an 86 Fiero. I haven't loved a car more since. Man I miss that car.
@@ka3097 I guess I mean my four-door 1971 Ford Torino was nicknamed the luff macheen I think 16 miles per gallon was the most you could ever get out of it on the highway that s*** was expensive to drive but you know you do what you had to do
@Andy Gadd personally I'd find an x 19. Had some friends that would let me borrow theirs for first dates... never failed to impress. Marroon red, hard top convertible what a car (when it actually ran; Fix It Again Tony is truth.).
@@ka3097 302 V8 in the love machine could go over 135 miles an hour floored I mean you just punch the accelerator and off you went I miss that rust-bucket
My Grandfather owned an '88 Fiero GT and despite the many drawbacks It could hang with cars that were well beyond its pedigree or cost and that made it so special...
I've had two 2m4. I had them both in the 90s. I loved them both. My all time favorite car. Hulki Aldicachi the Hungarian born designer who led the team for GM at The Art Center College for Design in Pasadena is why I wanted to become an automobile designer when I was young. The Fiero remains an achievable mid engine sports car. I never had any 'fire' issues. That was a glitch on the earliest model that was totally resolved.
I had a Fiero , drove straight through from Kalamazoo Michigan to Conroe Texas . Never shut the engine off , fueled up with the car running - 36 hours awake . It rained all the way there .
Must qualify for some kind of record. In a few days I'm driving my 88 540 miles to my favorite gambling casino in Laughlin, but am not trying to establish any kind of record.
@@AsylumSaint Surely you must have some sound reasoning to support your outandish statement? If you're gaining elevation above sealevel, then you are going uphill. If you are losing elevation, then you are going downhill...couldn't be any simpler than that.
@@AsylumSaint Michigan is a big state and Texas is a much bigger state, with varying points of altitude in both. So, it depends on
the elevation at the starting point as compared to the elevation at the finishing point whether or not you have traveled either uphill or downhill....with a third possibility of no overall altitude change at all. BHE
That was an awesome retrospective, but you left out what a sensation the car was when it came out. I actually remember the first time I saw one, a white one that our high school gym teacher bought. Kids at school crowded around it like Michael Jackson was inside. It was nuts.
Hagerty is producing the best automotive content on the entire platform right now. Thank you for this!
agreed!
Except for that Integra video. The new Integra does not do 6.7 0-60 it's more like a 7.5
Pretty sure that was Thomas from Throttle House as the unseen interviewer at start???
@@sports2hedz542 yes, confirmed by Jason
@@mikedockal8978 🥰 love that colab
I remember the first time I gave my daughter a ride in my 1986 V6 4 speed Fiero. She was amazed at how comfortable it was.
Sadly that was long ago and the Fiero is now just a memory. A very very GOOD memory though.
Arguably the most underrated show on TH-cam
It’s a Holiday when we get an episode!
Can’t wait for next Jason episode
Bithead 1000 is arguably the most under rated show on U Toob - when it comes to video games.
I had a 4 cylinder fiero, I bought it cheap drove it for several years and traded it . Was a lot of fun to drive, never broke down.
Was it really 50mpg?
I guy that I knew stuffed a small block 350 into one and made it about a 400 hp car. I think that he is dead now.
Had an '88 Fiero, handled like a dream cornering.
Words cannot convery how much I love my manual '88 Pontiac Fiero GT. It is so fun to drive a slow car fast. Sure, it can't hold a candle to most everything these days, but boy can that car turn. I take 20mph curves at 70+ and the tires don't even squeal. And you can get a two seater midengined classic in great condition for $9k or less. What's not to like? Thanks Jason!
The 88's put the 84-87 to shame
I've left so many faster and more modern cars in the dust when I hit a winding road in my 88GT.
@@RedonkaBert I test drove an 84 back like 15 years ago and the handling was so bad and it was one of the slowest car I'd ever driven! Got to drive an 88 GT a few years ago and it drove like a dream.
1st car in 1993 was a Fiero; followed by a Scirocco. Both odd. Both special with a lasting impression that is difficult to describe but i think Mr. Cammissa knows exactly what i mean.
As usual, just when a manufacturer gets their product sorted, the bean-counters kill it!
Not so much because of the price it is likely to sell for, but they're worried about taking sales away from another product-line, instead of thinking along the lines of stealing sales from competing companies!
Wrong! It wasn’t profitable.
@@ThrowAway-md9zx So sorry to hear that!
Honestly it was a beautiful car especially the newer look in the late 80’s. And yeah it caught on fire but so did the Lamborghini Miura and yet it’s still a legend today. And watching the driving at the end showed even though the steering has play like ANY car from the era, it still turned and handled very sharply. Thanks again Jason!!!
I'm Curious to see if people treat the Tesla with the same disdain after all their Battery Fires!?!?
It was only the 2M4 that had the fire issue. The GTs and 2M6 with the V6 didn't have this issue. They made a design mistake where the exhaust was too close to flammable parts , the fix was a Heat shield. I would never own the 4 banger version. My 87 GT had all the bugs worked out they got rid of the 4 speed transmission for a Getrag Muncie 5 speed.
My dad owned two Fieros he loved, an 84 and 88. He then had a GT-2 class race car based on the look of a Fiero. I enjoyed this video as a way to better understand the car that was a passion of my late father. Thank you.
I had a 1988 and man that car was fun af to drive, late at night i would go tearing around the city (Syracuse) and just wail on it through every side street and neighborhood, skidding around corners, doing donuts in the intersections... I was an 18 yr old terror, then sadly, mine was stolen after only 10 months of ownership... No dealer had another GT with a manual available, they just had automatics... so they led me to buying my first Camaro... an IROC-Z, Today I am too tall, too old, and too many joint problems to cram my 53 yr old butt into a fiero but I wouldn't mind having one just to have as a driveway ornament.
I love it when you hear Thomas Holland as the interviewer. Go Team Hagerty and Throttle House! =)
Glad i am not hallucinating then. I thought to myself, yup, that's Thomas from TH.
I also thought the same thing. 🤣🤣
I was like that HAD to be Thomas.
I’m a die-hard VW guy, and not much of a GM fan. I bought a Fiero last summer on a whim, figured I’d tidy it up a bit and sell it.
Now I have three Fieros.
My uncle had 4 of these, they'll always have a place in my heart
This is probably the best Fiero back story videos I've seen. Well made and very enjoyable to watch!
If Hagerty ever wanted to review a more modernized Fiero with a supercharged 3800 to see how a faster Fiero would do, I'd be willing to let you pound on mine for a bit just to see if it gives you a more favorable opinion of the car.
I loved the late model GT with the V6. The headrest speakers, the looks, and it was a blast to drive! My Dad serviced one for a friend so I got to drive it quite a few times. It was really cool and rarely needed major service. The earlier models had a lot of problems, but they worked out most of the bugs in the last few years.
The speakers in the seat were 84-85 only. The late model GTs were dash and B-pillar speaker mounted
My dad bought me a scale Fiero GT when I was born in 1985. I promised myself that I would own one someday. After I move to another country, found one same color, same body style, with 350,000 kms and I had to buy it. Unfortunately my dad stayed in my home country and I didn’t have a chance to have a ride with him. Love my Fieros, 1985 GT and 1986 GT. Beautiful aesthetically.
I remember where I was when I first saw this car upon it's debut. We were on the 101 freeway here in CA back in the 80's driving up to my parents house in Ventura. I saw this awesome car driving along side of us, and wondered what new Italian import was this? I kept speeding up, and slowing down to keep the car in view, and never did figure out what it was. Only later did I find out it was ours, and I still think it was a great design! 😎👍✌☃🎄🤶🎅
I owned a 1991 Lotus Elan, and it was a 4 cylinder turbo Lotus-Isuzu engine that averaged 44mpg, mostly in the city! This car had phenomenal gas mileage, so I don’t doubt the Fiero has 50mpg.
I had the Honda CRX. It could get 50 on the highway with the wind. Really nice car overall, and lots of space despite being a 2 seater.
My 1st car was a used Cavalier Z-24. My 2nd was a used '85 Fiero GT. I had way more fun in the Fiero! Mine was a bit special. it was repainted in a Toyota white and i had the catalytic converter removed. it was very loud and friends tell me that flames would shoot out the mufflers.
I used to get VIP parking at many clubs back then as even the bouncers thought it was a Ferrari. Especially since it was so loud. I lived at the bottom of a hill; when i came home late at night i used to shut off the engine and coast down the hill directly into my parking spot so not to wake my parents and my neighbors.
Loved my 85 Fiero GT. Handled great and the V6 in that light car made it plenty fun to drive. Was even far better in the snow than you'd think.
I agree about it getting around good in the snow. I had an 86 gt in 1988 in North Dakota )
Funny you mentioned that. We had a bad ice storm, the roads were covered in a thick layer of ice. Nobody was going anywhere. But my Ferio had no problem driving on ice! Since I had the only vechicle capable, I wound up shutttling everybody at my work home that day. One person at a time, of course. Yeah, we tried to fit two people in the passinger seat, but that wasn't going to happen. I was the hero that day🙂
I owned two fieros an 84 and 87 loved them both. wish i had kept my 87
My 87 GT did not like slippery roads at all! That engine always wanted to spin me around in the snow it didn't matter how careful I was maybe it was the 5 speed Getrag Muncie transmission ? It had so much power going to those huge rear tires they were More like snowboards and the heavy end always wanted to lead . It's just how inertia works.
I also had an 85 Fiero that I traded in for a 90 Corvette in 1993! The Fiero did just fine in the Ohio winters. I had to add a Blazer though once I bought the Corvette!
My friend Matt back in the High School had a 2M4. We had too much fun in that thing. Just don't rev it like a MR2. Now I have 2 and looking for a LS4 for a swap. It's what a Fiero should of always been. See you in my rear view mirrors.
Loved my Fiero. Had a 1988 Fastback. 5 speed manual transmission and got over 30 mpg. Rear wheel drive worked great in the snow in Colorado. If only I hadn't drove under a POS pickup truck. Fiero was so fun to drive and handled great.
All that rear drive weight certainly helped. MR2's are the same way according to what I've heard others say.
Since '89 a Fiero has been my primary driver....and I recently turned 82. In less then a week, I'm making the 540 mile drive to Laughlin, NV, for a three nights free stay at my favorite casino...unless it warms up and I decide to ride my motorcycle!
There's actually a guy on the TDI forums who turned his Fiero into the 50mpg commuter it was meant to be with a 1.9 vw TDI engine swap.
Yep, I own that car TDI Fiero, gets 57 MPG. I still have it. It runs great.
@@CoolBlue87GT Yeah that's got to be one of the coolest TDI swaps. I wonder if anyone has tried on an MR2?
My cousin, a professional mechanic, would have writers put into his contracts to ensure he would never work on a Fiero. He could not stand working on them. It made me think differently about them as an impressionable young kid. As an impressionable old kid, this video has me thinking differently about them again. Thanks JC!
As a mechanic myself I find them very easy. I drop the entire rear cradle, you can do this with a floor jack… and do an entire engine swap in only a hour or so.
At one point in my automotive career , I was a team leader at a Pontiac dealership. One member of my team could pull the cradle and drivetrain out of a Fiero in less than 30 minutes. We found that one of the most annoying job on a Fiero would be removing the fuel tank.
Cars are easy to work on..sounds like a poor mechanic.
I didn't realize there was a universe where employees have contracts and get to choose what they will and won't work on.
@@brendansmith1217 he was a very talented mechanic and often poached from the places he worked. Ended up in a career position with Toyota and hasn't had yo touch another make since.
Jason is simply the best! He has taken car reviews to a whole new level.
I saw several pretty cool looking custom builds based on Fiero with lowered roof and LS swapped from Vette (and even Northstar from Caddy) including Vette axles and gbox. If such creation is well tuned all together it might be one of best budget fun sportscars ever....In fact those pioneers built by themselves what took GM half century to achieve.....Heroes!
My dad‘s best friend is a mechanical engineer and he worked for GM in the 1980s in R&D. I remember at the time him showing us pictures and telling us all about how they actually put a 5.7 L V8 in a 1987 Fiero GT and on the track and the skid pad it outperformed the Corvette by every single metric that was used to measure a car‘s performance. They also built another version where they borrowed everything necessary from the Buick Grand National “parts bin” (so to speak) and turbocharged the 2.8L V6 on another prototype and that one beat out the V8 car they had built and it wasn’t even intercooled. That turbo V6 Fiero punished the Corvette so badly that the higher-ups at General Motors immediately pulled the plug on the idea and told them they would never build that performance version of the Fiero because it would crush Corvette sales if they did. Now the aftermarket has learned what the engineers knew all along. ✌️
In the late 80's and through the 90's there was a guy in North Dakota that became the go-to guy for Olds Quad 4 swaps into the Fiero. I wonder how many of those conversions still exist?
Why that engine??
Probably has to do with the transverse setup. (coming from a fwd car)
my guess the swap involved the whole drivetrain including the gearbox, and maybe more.
@@600wheel It was a good fit. The Quad-4 was supposed to go into a "1.5-gen" Fiero in 1990.
@@600wheel Why that engine? Light weight, 190 hp, proven race history.
@@dubdaze68 excellent a fiero wheelie
The "shift" light going on at the end is giving me flashbacks. Hated that thing.
Thanks to Hagerty for this episode. I have two 88 Fiero GT’s and an 86 GT and have Hagerty insurance. They are very fun cars to drive and I think they have a very unique styling. The 40th anniversary is coming up in Pontiac Michigan this summer. I’m sure there is going to have a big turn out. Thanks again for the great story.
So YOU’RE the one hogging all the Fiero GTs! j/k, you’re my new best friend, call me every 15 minutes, I want to be just like you if I grow up.
I loved my Fiero(s). The things mentioned here are mostly true if not a little nuanced. What wasn’t mentioned though is that the Fiero still has a large social group of followers and enthusiasts. We had a specialty shop in Huntsville, AL, where they could do almost anything, including taking the best parts from a loved car that was wrecked in an accident and rebuilding it on a junk chassis, something the Air Force is still doing on its B-52 strategic bombers. I’m an old coot now and out of the community but in my day we had conventions in Florida, meets at Daytona, and Swap Meets in Alabama. Thirty years later there is still a fan club and the engine mods since the Iron Duke and V-6 have crammed that little engine compartment so tight you can’t get your hand in there. The internet fostered an active community on how to fix anything. The early year Fieros had their problems but by 1988, they were free and clear and ready to earn some bucks but GM, curse them, nipped it. I remember the night I heard it announced on CNN. Shocked. It really deserved a little better PR from columnists.
Still got a totally original 1988 GT with the 2.8L, 5 speed and her name is Lucy with less than 90K on the clock. She comes out for a drive maybe 4 times a year, mostly for a car show or the Christmas Parade. Yes I love this car and will own it even after they outlaw 93 octane...Thanks Jason for the great review of the American Mid-Engine that would have been something else completely incredible if only it made it to 1989...P.S., ya got a new subscriber out of the video!
88 GT Fastback was the best. New suspension and upgrades. I had an 87 GT 5 speed (Maroon and Silver exterior) that was totaled when a lady hit me coming through a red light. Hold on to that 88, prices are up on the 88 cars.
I'm sorry but that made me laugh that is not parade car material
@@martydeeks1891 She's won 4 car shows for most original and as far as the parades, Key West has a parade for everything. To each their own...I enjoy her.
My first car was a 85’ with the V-6. I loved it. Thanks for this video JC! I really enjoyed it.
Jason should win awards with all of his shows. Simply amazing content!
Mom bought a 1984 base model new when I was 16. The thing had manual with 185/70 tires and handled like a race car compared to the 79 Thunderbird 302ci traded for it. In 110,000 miles of some teenage hard driving it had minimal issues, other than a head gasket I replaced. Ate oil only one time when trying to keep up with Atlanta traffic on the way to spring break, after that only 70mph cruise speed with no issues, I blamed the tremendous understeer on Ralph Nader, but in the snow the car was a blast to steer with the throttle and went through the deepest stuff compared to previous cars of rear drive. The sunroof compartment was a great place to store a 12 pack as the police only looked in the trunk and couldn't see how the hood opened or that it even could. Sold it running fine 11 years later, even the factory tape deck didn't eat a cassette. Regreted not keeping it. Did get a ticket for having three people in it in Illinois, but got away with 5 people at home (2 sitting out the sunroof). At 6'1" & 5'10" I don't know how me and my girlfriend Jenny had sex in it so many times, but then my 79 Trans Am back seat seems like it'd be impossible these days too. Hope all is well Jenny.....and Kathy you too.
The Fiero was an amazing car that was done dirty several times by GM executives (and its hideous interior). Imagine if the car would have initially been released the way the engineers envisioned it, without all the issues and the lackluster powertrain and suspension. They would have sold so many cars and the 2nd Gen looked so good, it was scary, with a clear Pontiac design line together with the Firebird/Trans Am of the time.
I had an 84 4 speed car and I got around 25mpg with it. I swapped in a 5 speed from an ‘86 (surprisingly easy to do) and got…25mpg. It was a $300 car with a $75 junkyard transmission so it was a wallet-friendly swap. I had a good time with it.
When I was in elementary school, my dad owned a Fiero…I was in love with that car! Speakers in the seats, just two seats…he would drive me all over LA with it. Though I work on planes now (my dad is still an auto mechanic, has been for over 50 years), it was the dad’s Fiero that gave me the car guy bug.
I bought the 88 Fiero GT in 1988 and owned it for 13 years. It's still one of my favourite cars and was a pleasure to drive it fast. It's too bad the Fiero didn't got a successor. I would have bought it right away.
Solstice. 20 years too late and front engine, but still...
Had to comment on how good that Fiero sounds at the end. Impressive.
It was a cool car, especially for the eighties. I had always wanted one, and hoped they would but the Quad4 HO in it, it would have been a helluva fun car with 180hp and a 5 speed.
I am convinced these episodes are among the best content on TH-cam. Like top 5. Now, can we get an episode on the '90 300ZX TT?
I wish these episodes were a little bit longer 😅 they’re soooooo good
I’m not even a car guy but I absolutely loved the style and story telling on this video. Great stuff.
Great fun, immensely entertaining and dead nuts accurate! Thanks for another terriffic episode. I recall chasing one of the prototypes early one morning in early spring 1983 on rural two-lanes outside Detroit trying to get a better look. This car managed to come to market and thrive due to some brilliant engineering and beautiful design - and despite the idiotic mishandling and maybe even a little intermural sabotage of the project by the corporate suits who couldn't figure out what they had. Good stuff, guys!
I'm thrilled the Fiero made it to Revelations with Jason Cammisa. Because like it or not, it was kind of iconic.
I once owned an '85 Fiero 2M4. It wasn't the fasted car, but it sure turned heads. It handled great and could corner "like it was on rails'. It never caught fire (I dutifully had any recall work performed). It was a lot of fun to drive and I really enjoyed the car, but it was a bear to work on that engine as a shade-tree mechanic. Regardless, by 1990 it was a little worse for the wear. It started to develop transmission slipping, the interior was starting to wear excessively and the door panels started to warp a bit from sun exposure (despite having tinted the windows from the very beginning.). Once the A/C developed issues and needed a replacement compressor, I decided to trade it in.
These are some of the best automotive videos on TH-cam. Also, does anyone else recognize who's "interviewing" Jason at the beginning? Nice subtle crossover 😅
Yep I have owned 3 of them yes I had the first year car the 4 banger red with 4 speed trans, really needed that 5th gear! After 2 years I moved on to a GMC Truck then in 88 buddy bought the 88 Car let me drive it and it was like night and day compared to the org. I kept the truck but I went out and bought one just like in the video loved that car I was broke but still loved it.
Many years later did the whole family thing kids and collage thing last year searching on FB market place saw one same colors year and in fairly good shape I got the interior freshened up it needs the same for the engine its next on the list but the car looks great and brings back to get memories.
I have a 3.8 Supercharged engine from a Gran Prix GTP in mine with an intercooler. It's a fun car in a straight line, but even with suspension mods and a big brake kit there is one thing I can't mod......the weight. It's a tiny car, but made from Detroit steel in Pontiac Michigan it will never be a lightweight sports car. My 2015 WRX which is a full size sedan weighs just a little more than a tiny two-seater "sports" car. Still, when that supercharger whine kicks in and beats a base Corvette at the drag strip it's pretty awesome. I've had so many WTF looks at the drag stip from new car owners as my 80s economy car beats them.
If the Fiero would have got the 2.0 liter turbo and 5 speed manual Pontiac put in the Grand AM in 1988, it would have become as iconic as the Buick GNX or GMC Syclone/Typhoon. I had the Grand AM and my neighbor had a Gold GT Fiero and it was a discussion we had many times.