Hey Walter I was a huge fan of yours before when I only know about the knife making. Now that I know you're also involved with Firearms I'm even a bigger fan now. All your videos are easy to understand and easy to learn from. I have a feeling that you were a teacher at one point. Anyway, I'm the owner of Dynamic Combat Solutions in NJ. We are a certified gunsmith shop that are also certified cerakote applicators. I can appreciate you taking the time to do this video. One thing you might wanna know that they really don't teach you unless you get certified is that every cerakote color has different strengths and weaknesses. There's a tech sheet available on their website so you know which color is better for abrasion, lubricity, so on and so forth. Also, another thing most ppl don't know about cerakote is that even after the baking process is over it can take up to 5 days for the cerakote to fully cure at 100%. I've been learning so much off of you just wanted to give back a little. Lol
It's important to note that Duracote specs a substantial "full cure" time(I think 3 weeks). Not sure if you addressed that but since the cerakote was baked to full cure, the test would have been skewed.
FINALLY an scientific comparison of various gun finishes. THANK YOU! The baked-on Burnt Bronze Cerakote on my Browning X-Bolt Pro DOES wear and scratch off. BUT how about the non-baked Cerakote type "C" v.s. Durakote??
Another DIY method is high-heat engine enamel, some of which you can bake on in your home oven. I repainted a shotgun several years ago with engine enamel (IIRC it was Rustoleum, but it might've been DupliColor), and it held up _really_ well. About as cheap as any other spray paint, but comes in quite a few colors. The stuff I used was baked on in my oven, but it was easy and I don't remember it smelling. For 2-part finishes, you may be able to use PreVal sprayers if you don't have a sprayer/compressor setup. PreVals aren't terribly expensive as long as you're not painting a bunch of stuff, and can even be found at places like Michael's and other hobby stores. A PreVal is basically just a spray can of propellant with a siphon tube on the bottom, and a mixing jar that screws on. Lastly, a 2k auto urethane might be something else to look into. You can now get 2k auto paint in spray cans, from SprayMax. It's an expensive option (about $25-$30 per can), but is going to be measurably more durable than regular spray paint. Another downside to SprayMax is that it's a one-shot deal: once you puncture the inner catalyst cylinder, you've only got 12-18 hours to use whatever you want to use: after that, it'll be cured, whether you use it all or not. The upside is that it's available in literally any color you can get a paint code for, and it's fully cured within 24 hours. It also comes in various gloss levels, and they also make clears (they work over most other paints), single-stage (color+clear in one), 1k (non-catalyzed) color coats, and a couple of 2k primers. One important note: 2k auto paints typically contain isocyanates, which are a Very Bad Thing to inhale (see: the Bhopal Disaster) and 2k paint particles will cure in your lungs.
I have been a knife maker for over 35 years. I just started using Cerakote and now you have produced this video. While I subscribe to using the best (usually denoted by high prices) and Cerakote certainly elaborates on their product and it's toughness. It is very nice to see your opinions and confirmation of this product. I do use an airbrush and I do go for a wet finish which they claim is 1mm. I think either is OK IMHO. Thanks for the video! Nicely done.
Another great video. Surface prep can't be stressed enough. I've had many knives coated by professionals. I used to get them done by a gunsmith until he passed away. He did great work and they held decently. I had another couple done by a local gun store by their smiths and the coating came off after a couple times in their new kydex sheath. So not all cerakote applicators are equal.
Hey Walter, great video. Do you think you could do an updated competition? Let's skip the "rattle can" choices since we all know that'll never hold up to any two-part product. But since it's been a few years since this challenge there are several other products that include Gun Kote, Alum-Hyde, etc. Plus the Dura-coat 2-part spray can application as well. Just an idea for another video, and you might throw in a "rust" challenge and see how long the coats take to break down in a "high rust" environment. Just an idea, great job and appreciate the hard work. Keep the fires hot.
As always, impressive levels of integrity from you Walter. Of all the aspects of your channel that I appreciate, this one thing is foremost in my mind. Bravo!
hey man. i made my first knife today. basically i have learned from no other place than this channel. it turned out better than i expected during the work due to lack of tools, but what i learned from you is that i can ho at it with a filw and a rasp and so i did. i wanna thank you for the knowledge. id love to support u on patreon but im a student so i have a lot of things to pay for anyway. please keep making these videos, i really enjoy the quality and the qork you put in to it. im sure i am not the only one who thinks so. :)
I've not used the bake on Cerikote, but have used there air dry, had a M14 barreled action I didn't want to pull the barrel to fit in the oven. The air dry takes about a week to fully cure, but it's held up wonderfully on my M14 and on a Veltor fiberglass stock. I've used DuraCoat and it wasn't nearly as tough. My pick is either flat engine paint for ease of re-aplication(think rough use combat knife), or Cerikote for shear durability.
I've used KG Guncoat pretty extensively. It's a moly-resin finish with a baking step. I did a subdued finish on my duty sidearm over 10 years ago. Aside from definite holster wear and heavy use (I'm a weapons instructor, so a LOT of rounds, handling and holster presentations) the finish is still fairly good.
a while ago i reminded you of your promise of making this vid,and here it is,and its verry well done. i think im gonna do one with spray paint,since i honestly dont have another option and laziness has nothing to do with it ;)
Your wear test is actually pretty squared away. I can say some of the old MIL STD testing isn't really too far off from this type of thing. I was a process engineer on some military wire harnesses about 25 years ago. One of the tests the wiring had to pass was for the wiring marking, which is hot stamped into the insulation. The military standard calls for a Pink Pearl eraser to be rubbed over the wire markings X many times in a single direction; the markings had to be legible from X number of inches away. That's MIL STD testing!!
That "dragger thingy" I would call a "sled." While I cannot give a direct comparison to your testing I have found, as have others here, that some oven time with paint helps a lot with abrasion resistance. Small parts cured at around 200F for an hour have a much more robust finish. Let them get dry to the touch before popping them into the oven. With most of the paint's solvents flashed off before baking the house will not stink. Best to do this when the significant other isn't around so you don't have to explain yourself.
You said you followed instructions and I believe you. But, the resin coating shouldn't have been that thin. The surface temperature should be kept up, baking to about 140 degrees or so for about 10 minutes between thin coats. The heat burns off the liquid carrier and leaves the colored resin. The final bake sets it. It also helps with the resins to use a clear coat to extend the life of your finish.
I am more familiar with the grand dad of these finishes...GunKote sold by Brownells. Few people kn ow that this was originally an automotive product made by Kal-Gard. I found out the first time I used it that just because you bake one of these coatings it is NOT fully cured!! I found that if you use it right away it would chip or scratch. Leave it 3 days and it was 90% harder (a guess at the %). 3 WEEKS later the stuff is nearly indestructible!! I have a couple 10/22 receivers and one barrel that are almost 10 years old and they look like they were just done pretty much. While these rifles are cared for they are not babied. I think this same principle probably applies to at least most of these products. Thanks for the review but I sure wish you had used the product that probably inspired the others. Been around at least 30-35 years and was revolutionary when it came out.. Thanks for what you did do but you did not say how long you let it cure.
Vincent Brennan You are correct! I have applied cerakote professionally for 8 years, even after curing one hour at 300f it takes about 21 days to get near maximum hardness. I have tried most other coatings, but can't beat Cerakote.
I was really surprised moly did so poorly. After shooting 100+ rounds of moly in a m&p 40 it took me two days to clean the barrel. I ended up taking a bore brush and chucking it into a drill. I learned so much from that experience like never shoot moly in a pistol, and thank God for Melonite.
I've found that on carbon steel for the best durability and adhesion of cerakote, prep, garnett blast, parkerize, then cerakote and bake. The second most durable I've found on carbon steel is prep, garnett blast, parkerize, then kg gunkote and bake. Duracoat is alot more durable if you'll prep, garnet blast, parkerize, then duracoat and let cure at least 2 weeks before assembly. On carbon steel the parkerizing specifically zinc acts as a primer to give the paints something to grab onto. Aluminum oxide just smooths out the surface and makes it slick. Garnett media is what you want. On non carbon steel metals including aluminum any of the finishes I just mentioned are more durable using kg kphos coating after the prep and garnet blasting and then baking the said finish on. Duracoat can even be baked on at lower temps for longer.
the two part coatings only have a 'pot life' of hours but you should be able to place it in the refrigerator to extend the 'pot life' like you can do with automotive paint and or epoxy resins
cool test, thanks. for firearms I understand completely the need to coat them with whatever stuff but concerning knives I always feel coating has something comparable to applying nail polish on your toe nails: looks fine for some while (if one likes that) but doesn't add function nor keeps it in the long run really the fungus away. And once you start to apply you have to refresh the polish once in a while, since damaged coating doesn't look nice, nor does it in anyway protect. I love the natural patina on carbon steel blades, for me a decades old carbon steel knife simply has to have it, else it must be a museum piece and never in use. And when I am again too late to oil one of my billhooks I use the most simple solution: sanding and applying rust converter ... maybe that isn't as good as professional burnishing but it is very cheap and gives a nice black finish ;-) but ok, seeing that video here, I would most probably use cerakote ... too bad that it has to be heat treated else I could recommend it also to my wife ...
Firearms Finish Showdown, Got to love it First I don't work for any of the companies you tested here I may own stock in one but I don't know for sure. I have used both of the rattle cans you tested for firearms, Kylon caused one issue but that was my fault. On DuraCoat It remember it likes to be soaked in acetone then baked to gas off the acetone, but someone on youtube said he would spray on slightly warm metal. I looked at this one brand once so I remember what I read and saw. Seems like they all have some process steps that could trip you up, if your followed a standard application process. So if you didn't do this you missed a few major step. Getting rid of small amounts of solvents can be key to a good coating. I worked metal cleaning for 15 years degassing metal was often a critical step after you used solvents of any kind. Also you said you didnt' have a way to measure coating thickness we used masking tape and put down a square when the edge vanished we had some where near 3-5 mils We used a lot of coatings mostly just paints and the one single thing I remember was surface preparation was key, but always a little different depending on the job and materials. We did some bluing, painting, and epoxy coatings and all these are like a colonoscopy if you don't get the prep right, you get to do it all over again. Had to get that joke in, but it is truth
Interesting and informative, thank you Walter. I have used Duracoat on a couple M-14 SOCOM's with good results, but I must say I was using a coat of clear over a base coat of color so two coats instead of one, and twice the time and price too. I have no complaints about the result tho.
"A general note about finishes generally." Is this just in general, generally speaking, generally? That had me laughing my but off for a while. Please tell me that was accidentally on purpose, Walt.
Personally i dont think i need 100% accuracy result , more importantly i know Cerakote is the way to go. Thanks for your effort in doing this video. We know its not easy.
theres a credit card sized paint thickness reader. You spray the surface then use the reader to determine the thickness of the coating and adjust from there. I forget what thats called...
Thanks for the test, one of the better comparisons I've seen. Much better than the random guy who has a sample of duracoat and cerakote and then tries to scratch them with a tool in hand. I have a project in mind which i may go with Duracoat, mainly due to it's complimentary product Durafil. - Bondo for guns.
I've used krylon on my guns for detailed patterns for years, put on a few coats and the only big scratches thus far have been from a car crash. The stuff works, and it's cheap.
Looks like the way to go with Cerakote and Duracoat would be to wait until you have several blades ready for coating and do them all at once so that you don't waste product.
Testing wet mils with this type of paint would be virtually impossible.... so the free credit card style wet mil gauge that you get won’t be of any use the only way to get a reading on this type of coating would be a digitital dry mill gauge maybe a really high end rolling manual gauge due to these coatings being less than 1 mil definitely no more than 2 mils over the profile of the surface for sure. Industrial coatings for tanks ,pipes ...etc are at the low end 10 to 12 mils finished dry reading and that’s usually with 2 to 3 coatsdepemd9ng on the solids percentage of the 2 part epoxy . But at same time if your not testing the profile before you paint you can’t really really know how accurate your coatings thickness is the difference in media and preparation to the tooth /profile of a surface is as important as the coating for sure. , former N.A.C.E certified coatings inspector hehe
Aluminum Oxide Sandpaper will remove metal if given enough time and pressure. How is this in any way indicative of regular, every day use of a knife, firearm, or painted object? It's an interesting watch, but doesn't prove much.
Good for military uses which they are designed for. Wear marks do not matter. Infact they break the profile in a camouflaged scenario. You don't worry about this. With knifes they simply stop reflection. If you are a soldier. With say a combat knife, the paints would do. How many times would you draw the knife to use on the enemy? You can always re spray it. Buy a can of spray dura coat if you want it to last. As for civilian uses with knives. It's not really needed buy a can of K99 grease to keep your knives from rusting.
Very very interesting video, thank you for testing that for us. While its results were not amazing and I'm not sure I would ever wanna use that on my guns or knives, I think Krylon did pretty good for its price. I practice martial arts and I have a pair of decent sai, but they came with a really bad paint finish that scratches everytime i contact a surface. I think I'm gonna try Krylon and see how it goes. Can't be worse than the factory one.
For general and personal use, I have found Krylon does a great job, and should I need to re-apply it, it is quick and easy. That said, if a person was to sell the products (be they firearms or knives) I would not recommend Krylon. It does (as you said) a fantastic job given its ease of use and cost of application, but it is not a production and long lasting coating.
That was really helpful! I used appliance epoxy paint for a knife and it is pretty crappy. I suppose it would be time to get some cerakote once I get a compressor :(
Damn informative video, Walt. Great stuff, sir. P.S. Have you tried shifting the lighting to one side or the other so you don't look like a young Willy Nelson, Walt? Or is the squint gonna be a trademark type thing, sir?
How would you classify Aluma-Hyde II from Brownells? It comes in a rattle can and they recommend you heat the object to be coated with a hair dryer or heat gun.
I would be curious how a controlled rust finish would hold up? Also would it be worth the effort? It's generally considered fairly tough for a firearms finish. Granted this process wouldn't work on stainless steel (depending on the stainless). However on carbon steels used in knife and gun manufacture it shouldn't be a problem to apply. The only other down side I can figure if you can call it that would be a lack of options for colors. That being black and rust red. The color would be a non issue for me since function is more important than form to me.
powder coating is basically just melted plastic and can be too thick for actions and moving parts or where fitment is important. you also have to have a dedicated oven/space for it so that might not always be an option for some people.
kydex rub tool or coated steel on the same coated steel rub test would be nice to know. and chip test to banging it against the gun safe. and a baton wood test.
it just depends what you're doing. soldiers and SOF troops both use the most field expedient method which is the spray paint. its easy to apply, its easy to remove its effective enough, and isnt chomed so it doesnt shine in the sun. and the final reason that usually trumps anything else....it's cheap. i have 4 seasons where i live and three of them have different color schemes. The difficulty of changing the colors of cerakote and duracoat makes it far less versatile, and far more expensive than spray paint.
Correct. For general personal use, Krylon would be more than fine. Its cost, ease of application and "touch up/change" makes it ideal. That said, if you SELL your items..... not so much.
Are you planning to test other protections such as diamond-like carbon (DLC) and titanium nitride (TiN) or are they too expensive for small scale knife makers to use?
Hey Walter I was a huge fan of yours before when I only know about the knife making. Now that I know you're also involved with Firearms I'm even a bigger fan now. All your videos are easy to understand and easy to learn from. I have a feeling that you were a teacher at one point. Anyway, I'm the owner of Dynamic Combat Solutions in NJ. We are a certified gunsmith shop that are also certified cerakote applicators. I can appreciate you taking the time to do this video. One thing you might wanna know that they really don't teach you unless you get certified is that every cerakote color has different strengths and weaknesses. There's a tech sheet available on their website so you know which color is better for abrasion, lubricity, so on and so forth. Also, another thing most ppl don't know about cerakote is that even after the baking process is over it can take up to 5 days for the cerakote to fully cure at 100%. I've been learning so much off of you just wanted to give back a little. Lol
You're awesome man. I love that you put out real info, point out the gray areas, and just try to educate without hype.
It's important to note that Duracote specs a substantial "full cure" time(I think 3 weeks). Not sure if you addressed that but since the cerakote was baked to full cure, the test would have been skewed.
That sandstorm joke was great
I wish there were firearm reviewers that were as thorough and funny as you. Great job.
*Perfect. Very useful test. Confirms my earlier opinion about painting knife blades with paint. Thank you 🙂*
FINALLY an scientific comparison of various gun finishes. THANK YOU! The baked-on Burnt Bronze Cerakote on my Browning X-Bolt Pro DOES wear and scratch off.
BUT how about the non-baked Cerakote type "C" v.s. Durakote??
Another DIY method is high-heat engine enamel, some of which you can bake on in your home oven. I repainted a shotgun several years ago with engine enamel (IIRC it was Rustoleum, but it might've been DupliColor), and it held up _really_ well. About as cheap as any other spray paint, but comes in quite a few colors. The stuff I used was baked on in my oven, but it was easy and I don't remember it smelling.
For 2-part finishes, you may be able to use PreVal sprayers if you don't have a sprayer/compressor setup. PreVals aren't terribly expensive as long as you're not painting a bunch of stuff, and can even be found at places like Michael's and other hobby stores. A PreVal is basically just a spray can of propellant with a siphon tube on the bottom, and a mixing jar that screws on.
Lastly, a 2k auto urethane might be something else to look into. You can now get 2k auto paint in spray cans, from SprayMax. It's an expensive option (about $25-$30 per can), but is going to be measurably more durable than regular spray paint. Another downside to SprayMax is that it's a one-shot deal: once you puncture the inner catalyst cylinder, you've only got 12-18 hours to use whatever you want to use: after that, it'll be cured, whether you use it all or not. The upside is that it's available in literally any color you can get a paint code for, and it's fully cured within 24 hours. It also comes in various gloss levels, and they also make clears (they work over most other paints), single-stage (color+clear in one), 1k (non-catalyzed) color coats, and a couple of 2k primers. One important note: 2k auto paints typically contain isocyanates, which are a Very Bad Thing to inhale (see: the Bhopal Disaster) and 2k paint particles will cure in your lungs.
One thing you didn't mention was even tho it wasn't a lab specific testing. You did apply each according to the directions. Loved the vid.
Mr Sorrels , may I state that this test was much more realistic and useful than most others out there ! Thank you for your videos !
That.. is a lot of strokes. I applaud your stick-to-itiveness!
I have been a knife maker for over 35 years. I just started using Cerakote and now you have produced this video. While I subscribe to using the best (usually denoted by high prices) and Cerakote certainly elaborates on their product and it's toughness. It is very nice to see your opinions and confirmation of this product. I do use an airbrush and I do go for a wet finish which they claim is 1mm. I think either is OK IMHO. Thanks for the video! Nicely done.
Another great video. Surface prep can't be stressed enough. I've had many knives coated by professionals. I used to get them done by a gunsmith until he passed away. He did great work and they held decently. I had another couple done by a local gun store by their smiths and the coating came off after a couple times in their new kydex sheath. So not all cerakote applicators are equal.
Hey Walter, great video. Do you think you could do an updated competition? Let's skip the "rattle can" choices since we all know that'll never hold up to any two-part product.
But since it's been a few years since this challenge there are several other products that include Gun Kote, Alum-Hyde, etc. Plus the Dura-coat 2-part spray can application as well. Just an idea for another video, and you might throw in a "rust" challenge and see how long the coats take to break down in a "high rust" environment. Just an idea, great job and appreciate the hard work. Keep the fires hot.
As always, impressive levels of integrity from you Walter. Of all the aspects of your channel that I appreciate, this one thing is foremost in my mind. Bravo!
Great video. I think the dragger-thingey term you're looking for is "Sled"...
hey man. i made my first knife today. basically i have learned from no other place than this channel. it turned out better than i expected during the work due to lack of tools, but what i learned from you is that i can ho at it with a filw and a rasp and so i did. i wanna thank you for the knowledge. id love to support u on patreon but im a student so i have a lot of things to pay for anyway. please keep making these videos, i really enjoy the quality and the qork you put in to it. im sure i am not the only one who thinks so. :)
Problem with this test is that Duracoat, has a cure time of up to 4 weeks plus. Cerakote is 1 week. In less he waited for full cure.
I've not used the bake on Cerikote, but have used there air dry, had a M14 barreled action I didn't want to pull the barrel to fit in the oven. The air dry takes about a week to fully cure, but it's held up wonderfully on my M14 and on a Veltor fiberglass stock. I've used DuraCoat and it wasn't nearly as tough. My pick is either flat engine paint for ease of re-aplication(think rough use combat knife), or Cerikote for shear durability.
Another great video, thanks for all the hard work by moving the camera for the dragger thingy!
Thanks for the video... I like your straightforward candor regarding your testing process.
That testing jig you built has a name. It is "crockmeter" and it is used in industry exactly for this - for testing the wear resistance of coatings.
That's a load of crock!
LOL :D
Well the load all depends on the weight applied. ;)
I've used KG Guncoat pretty extensively. It's a moly-resin finish with a baking step. I did a subdued finish on my duty sidearm over 10 years ago. Aside from definite holster wear and heavy use (I'm a weapons instructor, so a LOT of rounds, handling and holster presentations) the finish is still fairly good.
I appreciate you doing all the work you do for changing all the camera angles... LOL and thanks for doing this! Your amazing
was hoping u would test powder coating, but glad to see this test, thanx a lot
I appreciate you doing this.
Great video Walter! keep up the good work! your channel Rocks!
Excellent video as always... I admire your patience...
a while ago i reminded you of your promise of making this vid,and here it is,and its verry well done.
i think im gonna do one with spray paint,since i honestly dont have another option and laziness has nothing to do with it ;)
Your wear test is actually pretty squared away. I can say some of the old MIL STD testing isn't really too far off from this type of thing. I was a process engineer on some military wire harnesses about 25 years ago. One of the tests the wiring had to pass was for the wiring marking, which is hot stamped into the insulation. The military standard calls for a Pink Pearl eraser to be rubbed over the wire markings X many times in a single direction; the markings had to be legible from X number of inches away. That's MIL STD testing!!
"tears of a virgin in a saudi arabian sandstorm" AHAHAHHAHAHAHA
Walter Sorrels - 2K16. 😂
That was a colorful similie ;)
One of the best things Walter said in a video.
Did he pass away? I hadn't heard.
XD could you give the timestamp for that
That "dragger thingy" I would call a "sled." While I cannot give a direct comparison to your testing I have found, as have others here, that some oven time with paint helps a lot with abrasion resistance. Small parts cured at around 200F for an hour have a much more robust finish. Let them get dry to the touch before popping them into the oven. With most of the paint's solvents flashed off before baking the house will not stink. Best to do this when the significant other isn't around so you don't have to explain yourself.
This really helped me and saved me time.
Thank you so much, Walter! Excellent video.
Walt,
Really well done video sir. Thank you.
You said you followed instructions and I believe you. But, the resin coating shouldn't have been that thin. The surface temperature should be kept up, baking to about 140 degrees or so for about 10 minutes between thin coats. The heat burns off the liquid carrier and leaves the colored resin. The final bake sets it. It also helps with the resins to use a clear coat to extend the life of your finish.
I am more familiar with the grand dad of these finishes...GunKote sold by Brownells. Few people kn ow that this was originally an automotive product made by Kal-Gard.
I found out the first time I used it that just because you bake one of these coatings it is NOT fully cured!! I found that if you use it right away it would chip or scratch. Leave it 3 days and it was 90% harder (a guess at the %). 3 WEEKS later the stuff is nearly indestructible!!
I have a couple 10/22 receivers and one barrel that are almost 10 years old and they look like they were just done pretty much. While these rifles are cared for they are not babied. I think this same principle probably applies to at least most of these products.
Thanks for the review but I sure wish you had used the product that probably inspired the others. Been around at least 30-35 years and was revolutionary when it came out..
Thanks for what you did do but you did not say how long you let it cure.
Vincent Brennan You are correct! I have applied cerakote professionally for 8 years, even after curing one hour at 300f it takes about 21 days to get near maximum hardness. I have tried most other coatings, but can't beat Cerakote.
Really nice test video.
I was really surprised moly did so poorly. After shooting 100+ rounds of moly in a m&p 40 it took me two days to clean the barrel. I ended up taking a bore brush and chucking it into a drill. I learned so much from that experience like never shoot moly in a pistol, and thank God for Melonite.
Oh, I have one of those 4 rail hand guards on my varmint AR15. It's like holding onto a band saw blade.
Would love to see a video like this on knife handle materials like G10
I learned about Molly resin nothing else was a surprise
good stuff walter
Nice to see someone who knows how explain objective verses subjective empirical data verses anecdote....
I've found that on carbon steel for the best durability and adhesion of cerakote, prep, garnett blast, parkerize, then cerakote and bake.
The second most durable I've found on carbon steel is prep, garnett blast, parkerize, then kg gunkote and bake.
Duracoat is alot more durable if you'll prep, garnet blast, parkerize, then duracoat and let cure at least 2 weeks before assembly.
On carbon steel the parkerizing specifically zinc acts as a primer to give the paints something to grab onto.
Aluminum oxide just smooths out the surface and makes it slick. Garnett media is what you want.
On non carbon steel metals including aluminum any of the finishes I just mentioned are more durable using kg kphos coating after the prep and garnet blasting and then baking the said finish on.
Duracoat can even be baked on at lower temps for longer.
Cool Walter,Thank You...
Great video! I've been looking for something like this!
the two part coatings only have a 'pot life' of hours but you should be able to place it in the refrigerator to extend the 'pot life'
like you can do with automotive paint and or epoxy resins
cool test, thanks.
for firearms I understand completely the need to coat them with whatever stuff but concerning knives I always feel coating has something comparable to applying nail polish on your toe nails: looks fine for some while (if one likes that) but doesn't add function nor keeps it in the long run really the fungus away. And once you start to apply you have to refresh the polish once in a while, since damaged coating doesn't look nice, nor does it in anyway protect.
I love the natural patina on carbon steel blades, for me a decades old carbon steel knife simply has to have it, else it must be a museum piece and never in use. And when I am again too late to oil one of my billhooks I use the most simple solution: sanding and applying rust converter ... maybe that isn't as good as professional burnishing but it is very cheap and gives a nice black finish ;-)
but ok, seeing that video here, I would most probably use cerakote ... too bad that it has to be heat treated else I could recommend it also to my wife ...
Thanks for sharing your knowledge ... Great videos
love your channel and love your projects
Firearms Finish Showdown, Got to love it First I don't work for any of the companies you tested here I may own stock in one but I don't know for sure. I have used both of the rattle cans you tested for firearms, Kylon caused one issue but that was my fault. On DuraCoat It remember it likes to be soaked in acetone then baked to gas off the acetone, but someone on youtube said he would spray on slightly warm metal. I looked at this one brand once so I remember what I read and saw. Seems like they all have some process steps that could trip you up, if your followed a standard application process. So if you didn't do this you missed a few major step. Getting rid of small amounts of solvents can be key to a good coating. I worked metal cleaning for 15 years degassing metal was often a critical step after you used solvents of any kind. Also you said you didnt' have a way to measure coating thickness we used masking tape and put down a square when the edge vanished we had some where near 3-5 mils We used a lot of coatings mostly just paints and the one single thing I remember was surface preparation was key, but always a little different depending on the job and materials. We did some bluing, painting, and epoxy coatings and all these are like a colonoscopy if you don't get the prep right, you get to do it all over again. Had to get that joke in, but it is truth
I love these videos, Thank you so much, Walter...Lynn....or Ruth...
Interesting and informative, thank you Walter. I have used Duracoat on a couple M-14 SOCOM's with good results, but I must say I was using a coat of clear over a base coat of color so two coats instead of one, and twice the time and price too. I have no complaints about the result tho.
"A general note about finishes generally." Is this just in general, generally speaking, generally? That had me laughing my but off for a while. Please tell me that was accidentally on purpose, Walt.
I think you misunderstood.... he said "A general note about finishes General Lee." ;)
Rip Walter, I will miss your videos 😢
Very interesting! Thank you!
Brad
Personally i dont think i need 100% accuracy result , more importantly i know Cerakote is the way to go. Thanks for your effort in doing this video. We know its not easy.
I'm not asking you to do more work, but it would be interesting to see a salt spray corrosion resistance test.
How about, sanding sled?
Great test. Really appreciate it. Too bad you didn't get to use Gun-Kote. It is supposed to be pretty good too.
Great info!
theres a credit card sized paint thickness reader. You spray the surface then use the reader to determine the thickness of the coating and adjust from there. I forget what thats called...
Thanks for the test, one of the better comparisons I've seen. Much better than the random guy who has a sample of duracoat and cerakote and then tries to scratch them with a tool in hand.
I have a project in mind which i may go with Duracoat, mainly due to it's complimentary product Durafil. - Bondo for guns.
ive had some pretty good luck with alumahyde 2 from brownells. comes in a spraycan and is epoxy based
I've used krylon on my guns for detailed patterns for years, put on a few coats and the only big scratches thus far have been from a car crash. The stuff works, and it's cheap.
This is Awesome! Thanks!
Thanks
Sorrell's finish testing sled.
Looks like the way to go with Cerakote and Duracoat would be to wait until you have several blades ready for coating and do them all at once so that you don't waste product.
Any paint or especially industrial coatings supplier can give you a mil gauge. Don't let them charge you for it, they get them by the box. :)
Testing wet mils with this type of paint would be virtually impossible.... so the free credit card style wet mil gauge that you get won’t be of any use the only way to get a reading on this type of coating would be a digitital dry mill gauge maybe a really high end rolling manual gauge due to these coatings being less than 1 mil definitely no more than 2 mils over the profile of the surface for sure.
Industrial coatings for tanks ,pipes ...etc are at the low end 10 to 12 mils finished dry reading and that’s usually with 2 to 3 coatsdepemd9ng on the solids percentage of the 2 part epoxy .
But at same time if your not testing the profile before you paint you can’t really really know how accurate your coatings thickness is the difference in media and preparation to the tooth /profile of a surface is as important as the coating for sure.
, former N.A.C.E certified coatings inspector hehe
i LOVE the new music!!!
Aluminum Oxide Sandpaper will remove metal if given enough time and pressure. How is this in any way indicative of regular, every day use of a knife, firearm, or painted object? It's an interesting watch, but doesn't prove much.
Good for military uses which they are designed for. Wear marks do not matter. Infact they break the profile in a camouflaged scenario. You don't worry about this. With knifes they simply stop reflection. If you are a soldier. With say a combat knife, the paints would do. How many times would you draw the knife to use on the enemy? You can always re spray it. Buy a can of spray dura coat if you want it to last. As for civilian uses with knives. It's not really needed buy a can of K99 grease to keep your knives from rusting.
Love your videos
Robert Hurley
spray paint is good on a rifle if you want to change it with the seasons.
Could you please do a video about making serrations?
you look like a mix between John Mcenroe and John McCain.
fastsofaracing ...that'd be funny if he was constantly yelling like John MacEnroe
please do a fillet knife tutorial
i usualy blacken my blades by burning oil to it. not something everyone likes but i like it. gives that "old world" feel to it.
I like the look of oil blackened blades as well, but that process does not add any significant rust protection to a high carbon blade.
Very very interesting video, thank you for testing that for us.
While its results were not amazing and I'm not sure I would ever wanna use that on my guns or knives, I think Krylon did pretty good for its price. I practice martial arts and I have a pair of decent sai, but they came with a really bad paint finish that scratches everytime i contact a surface. I think I'm gonna try Krylon and see how it goes. Can't be worse than the factory one.
For general and personal use, I have found Krylon does a great job, and should I need to re-apply it, it is quick and easy. That said, if a person was to sell the products (be they firearms or knives) I would not recommend Krylon. It does (as you said) a fantastic job given its ease of use and cost of application, but it is not a production and long lasting coating.
Should have tried KG gun kote. It's what I use on all my knifes and firearms
Hey Walter, what about making a scuba diving knife?
nice video
That was really helpful! I used appliance epoxy paint for a knife and it is pretty crappy. I suppose it would be time to get some cerakote once I get a compressor :(
Love the hoppes comment lolol
Damn informative video, Walt. Great stuff, sir.
P.S. Have you tried shifting the lighting to one side or the other so you don't look like a young Willy Nelson, Walt? Or is the squint gonna be a trademark type thing, sir?
Allumahyde-2 gives you the ease of rattlecan application, with the durability of duracote or ceracote... and it's cheaper.
Good upload! Thanks! But are you supposed to heat treat the krylon paint finish if you use it on a knife blade?
How would you classify Aluma-Hyde II from Brownells? It comes in a rattle can and they recommend you heat the object to be coated with a hair dryer or heat gun.
I would be curious how a controlled rust finish would hold up? Also would it be worth the effort? It's generally considered fairly tough for a firearms finish. Granted this process wouldn't work on stainless steel (depending on the stainless). However on carbon steels used in knife and gun manufacture it shouldn't be a problem to apply. The only other down side I can figure if you can call it that would be a lack of options for colors. That being black and rust red. The color would be a non issue for me since function is more important than form to me.
as always good stuff. if you ever do this again maybe throw in powder coat
powder coating is basically just melted plastic and can be too thick for actions and moving parts or where fitment is important. you also have to have a dedicated oven/space for it so that might not always be an option for some people.
Will baking the coating take the temper out of my knife?
kydex rub tool or coated steel on the same coated steel rub test would be nice to know.
and chip test to banging it against the gun safe.
and a baton wood test.
love your t shirt
I use fire resistant paint that needs to cure in oven,,,works like a charm.
2000 ° header paint works great !!
great video, thanks for taking the time.
and is that your AR?
Very, very nice vid. Have you ever used powder coating on a knife? Thanks!
it just depends what you're doing. soldiers and SOF troops both use the most field expedient method which is the spray paint. its easy to apply, its easy to remove its effective enough, and isnt chomed so it doesnt shine in the sun. and the final reason that usually trumps anything else....it's cheap. i have 4 seasons where i live and three of them have different color schemes. The difficulty of changing the colors of cerakote and duracoat makes it far less versatile, and far more expensive than spray paint.
Correct. For general personal use, Krylon would be more than fine. Its cost, ease of application and "touch up/change" makes it ideal. That said, if you SELL your items..... not so much.
Are you planning to test other protections such as diamond-like carbon (DLC) and titanium nitride (TiN) or are they too expensive for small scale knife makers to use?