I love your quilts. And I'm thankful for the content of this video for it explains exactly how to increase the warmth required in a winter climate, including the right use of sleeping pads. Well done!!!
You guys should make a smaller version of your quilts to use similar to Rumpl, but I know you guys would do it better and make them layerable with your other quilts!!
So true! I been layering quilts for years, both on the ground with top quilts, and then also stacking underquilts for my hammocks. Sure, there's a little extra weight for the two bags in the cold but depending on where I am, I'll likely have a pulk so this becomes kind of a non-issue and makes sure I enjoy the trip more. I don't have a synthetic outer tho, definitely this inspires me to look into it as an option.
How do you tell the temp on down bags? I got these amazing thick, lofty, vintage eddie bauer down bags from my Dad, he had them in the 60's....I was thinking of slipping the down bag in a synthetic, forest service firefighter, cool bag I have.
Already have a big pocket built-in... it's called a foot box. I put my phone, power bank, InReach, and water filter in a small stuff sack, sometimes I add a hand warmer in there too, then I toss it in my footbox for the night. Easy Peasy.
Jack Stephenson taught this example of thermodynamics in his Warmlite catalog in the 1970s and 1980s. His bag design had a thick, down insulated mattress, and two zippers on each side to use one, or two down quilts of two thicknesses, with built-in vapor barriers all around, keeping your body's moisture out of the down. I had one, but it was too heavy for warm weather use. They are still made, though Jack sold the company years ago. In extreme cold, without use of a vapor barrier, it's common for frost to form at the point where the outside chill lowers the moist heat coming from your body below the freezing point. Iow: What he said - only differently 😊 Physics makes the natural world make sense.
I need space to move when I sleep, thus my reason for buying your quilt. Can I combine 2 quilts? If so, should one be synthetic and the other down, or can they both be the same material?
I always put the closed cell foam pad on the bottom. It isn't going to lose air pressure from being exposed to the colder surface, and it protects an inflatable pad. If it's going to be minus 20 or lower, I don't use an inflatable. They tend to get brittle in those temps. A thick open cell foam paired with a closed cell foam tends to be most resilient in those temps.
Awesome video!!! Been looking for answers to this exact problem for so long, it's great to finally get some answers. I'm planning on double thru-hiking in 2021 and since I'm not incredibly fast I'm planning on the potential of hiking in February-December depending on a number of factors. I'm considering a 30 degree down mummy paired with a 30 degree synthetic quilt to deal with the cold and condensation during the coldest time periods. 2 questions: 1.) if I go with a wide quilt, will I still be able to use that independently during the summer even though it will be significantly larger than a bag I would typically use or will the extra material cause me issues beyond the extra weight. 2.) how do I know the temperature sleep rating of combining a bag and quilt, e.g. Does a 30/30 rating handle 0 degrees?
I find it humorous that people who are ( considering ) a thru hiking experience are just now considering a quilt . Ultralighting is key to any backpacker , and quilts are just one of the essential's to it .
Enlightened Equipment Sorry. I was just throwing that option out there. I know some people use them with positive results. Seems like it would save more weight/mass than two bags. I suppose it’s like anything else, just have to try it.
Many quilts these days have the hydrophobic down.. Hammock underquilts are also fully down and do not require 'synthetic' double layering.. I think the same principal goes for top quilts.. In winter conditions for example when the temperatures are doing between -5 and -10 degree in Celsius, you should be able to layer 40f and 20f down topquilts and be comfortable.. Down allows for the most breathability slowing heat down to escape and keeping that timing/flow perfect, and thus is making sure u do not use more energy than needed, it holds warmth just long enough before evaporating and so there should be no moisture buildup in the down layers that is not flowing and might conduct frost in the winter.. However synthetic insulations usually have hard times breathing and therefore creates and holds moisture more easy and enables to conduct frost is my understanding, rendering that layer a problem if u ask me!? And if the down layers somehow (for example using too hot ratings that day) allows frosting like synthetic usually does, the down will also just keep its insulation value like synthetic, when it is the treated hydrophobic down, so no trade off there.. Though adding a thin blanket on top of the down layers or sleeping bag liner, could help to catch the frosting that might occur on the top fabric when the area outside your sleep system is freezing.. However you could use a winter sock for hammocks (and or bugnet), that creates a small micro climate outside your sleeping bag layers, so that area is not sub zero anymore and and helps against avoiding possible quilt frosting.. I think you can also achieve that when you have a compact/small double walled tent, so by making your quilt layer system as breathable as possible while being warm with minimal energy and thus minimal moisture for the conditions you are in (down is the way to go for that) it should be able to heat the area surrounding you.. Just make sure the area is not to big to heat, because the more energy you will lose and will not be able to heat it.. When u achieve this sort of external climate barrier, u are only losing minimal energy for heating yourself and the condense should be frosting and hanging from your tent/sock/tarp, rather than on top or inside your quilts.. It is a true balancing game keeping breathability, heat and moist ratios perfect, it also is a personal pursuit for everyone - nobody and no sleep system or conditions are the same and are always dynamic.. Things like weight, volume, price, availability, durability and versatility are also key triangles to consider.. Just trying to add some philosophy, hope it might help someone.. 900 cuin hydrophobic RDS goose down all the way - cheers!
Tim please slow down the the speed of your speech so we don't have to rewind the video serval times to pick up & process what you are saying. If you are anxious or nervosos to get the video over take a few minutes to settle down before starting to record. Thanks for the video we appreciate the knowledge being passed.
You can change the speed of the playback. Click the "gear wheel" settings icon bottom right. Also useful to speed up really slow talkers. Works on PC and tablet. Have not tried on a phone but I think it works there, too.
I love your quilts. And I'm thankful for the content of this video for it explains exactly how to increase the warmth required in a winter climate, including the right use of sleeping pads. Well done!!!
you guys make killer quilts...the warmth rating is just right..YOU explain it all so well..good stuff
Happy to hear that Brett, thanks for the support! Happy Trails!
You guys should make a smaller version of your quilts to use similar to Rumpl, but I know you guys would do it better and make them layerable with your other quilts!!
This was awesome been trying to figure out a way to effectively make quilts work at really low temps thanks for explaining it perfectly
You can add a bivy and a sleeping bag liner
So true! I been layering quilts for years, both on the ground with top quilts, and then also stacking underquilts for my hammocks. Sure, there's a little extra weight for the two bags in the cold but depending on where I am, I'll likely have a pulk so this becomes kind of a non-issue and makes sure I enjoy the trip more. I don't have a synthetic outer tho, definitely this inspires me to look into it as an option.
Nice video, I was considering doing this to augment my Enigma 30.
If you do, let us know how it works out for you. Happy Trails!
Hey Thanks great info really appreciate all the help
How do you tell the temp on down bags? I got these amazing thick, lofty, vintage eddie bauer down bags from my Dad, he had them in the 60's....I was thinking of slipping the down bag in a synthetic, forest service firefighter, cool bag I have.
You need to add an interior pocket for phones or batteries please. Thanks
Already have a big pocket built-in... it's called a foot box. I put my phone, power bank, InReach, and water filter in a small stuff sack, sometimes I add a hand warmer in there too, then I toss it in my footbox for the night. Easy Peasy.
Jack Stephenson taught this example of thermodynamics in his Warmlite catalog in the 1970s and 1980s. His bag design had a thick, down insulated mattress, and two zippers on each side to use one, or two down quilts of two thicknesses, with built-in vapor barriers all around, keeping your body's moisture out of the down. I had one, but it was too heavy for warm weather use. They are still made, though Jack sold the company years ago. In extreme cold, without use of a vapor barrier, it's common for frost to form at the point where the outside chill lowers the moist heat coming from your body below the freezing point.
Iow: What he said - only differently 😊
Physics makes the natural world make sense.
I need space to move when I sleep, thus my reason for buying your quilt. Can I combine 2 quilts? If so, should one be synthetic and the other down, or can they both be the same material?
Getting geared up for winter trips, and I’m looking to pair my regular/wide down Enigma 20* with a 30* APEX Convert, also regular/wide.
I always put the closed cell foam pad on the bottom. It isn't going to lose air pressure from being exposed to the colder surface, and it protects an inflatable pad. If it's going to be minus 20 or lower, I don't use an inflatable. They tend to get brittle in those temps. A thick open cell foam paired with a closed cell foam tends to be most resilient in those temps.
This is excellent and very relevant to some recent reading that I’ve been doing. Covered even more than I expected. Thanks so much! :)
Happy to hear that Jeremy! Keep an eye out for more Tim Talks in the future. Happy Trails!
Awesome video!!! Been looking for answers to this exact problem for so long, it's great to finally get some answers. I'm planning on double thru-hiking in 2021 and since I'm not incredibly fast I'm planning on the potential of hiking in February-December depending on a number of factors. I'm considering a 30 degree down mummy paired with a 30 degree synthetic quilt to deal with the cold and condensation during the coldest time periods.
2 questions:
1.) if I go with a wide quilt, will I still be able to use that independently during the summer even though it will be significantly larger than a bag I would typically use or will the extra material cause me issues beyond the extra weight.
2.) how do I know the temperature sleep rating of combining a bag and quilt, e.g. Does a 30/30 rating handle 0 degrees?
I find it humorous that people who are ( considering ) a thru hiking experience are just now considering a quilt .
Ultralighting is key to any backpacker , and quilts are just one of the essential's to it .
I find it humorous that you responded to a two year old question.
@@Greg-tk3sf Take the video down if you want different results
Not my video
was NOT prepared for that opening shot lol
wow. best video on sleep systems i've ever seen
Great tips thanks mate
Summer bag/quilt and a sleep system liner?
I am sorry but you will need to be more clear with your question.
Thanks.
Jenna
Enlightened Equipment Sorry. I was just throwing that option out there. I know some people use them with positive results. Seems like it would save more weight/mass than two bags. I suppose it’s like anything else, just have to try it.
Gotcha! Thanks.
Many quilts these days have the hydrophobic down.. Hammock underquilts are also fully down and do not require 'synthetic' double layering.. I think the same principal goes for top quilts..
In winter conditions for example when the temperatures are doing between -5 and -10 degree in Celsius, you should be able to layer 40f and 20f down topquilts and be comfortable.. Down allows for the most breathability slowing heat down to escape and keeping that timing/flow perfect, and thus is making sure u do not use more energy than needed, it holds warmth just long enough before evaporating and so there should be no moisture buildup in the down layers that is not flowing and might conduct frost in the winter.. However synthetic insulations usually have hard times breathing and therefore creates and holds moisture more easy and enables to conduct frost is my understanding, rendering that layer a problem if u ask me!? And if the down layers somehow (for example using too hot ratings that day) allows frosting like synthetic usually does, the down will also just keep its insulation value like synthetic, when it is the treated hydrophobic down, so no trade off there.. Though adding a thin blanket on top of the down layers or sleeping bag liner, could help to catch the frosting that might occur on the top fabric when the area outside your sleep system is freezing.. However you could use a winter sock for hammocks (and or bugnet), that creates a small micro climate outside your sleeping bag layers, so that area is not sub zero anymore and and helps against avoiding possible quilt frosting.. I think you can also achieve that when you have a compact/small double walled tent, so by making your quilt layer system as breathable as possible while being warm with minimal energy and thus minimal moisture for the conditions you are in (down is the way to go for that) it should be able to heat the area surrounding you.. Just make sure the area is not to big to heat, because the more energy you will lose and will not be able to heat it.. When u achieve this sort of external climate barrier, u are only losing minimal energy for heating yourself and the condense should be frosting and hanging from your tent/sock/tarp, rather than on top or inside your quilts.. It is a true balancing game keeping breathability, heat and moist ratios perfect, it also is a personal pursuit for everyone - nobody and no sleep system or conditions are the same and are always dynamic.. Things like weight, volume, price, availability, durability and versatility are also key triangles to consider.. Just trying to add some philosophy, hope it might help someone.. 900 cuin hydrophobic RDS goose down all the way - cheers!
Not to be rude, but "philosophy is useless." Physics, please.
@@cumuliform All writen out of experience 'physics' no thanks needed, sleep well..
Tim please slow down the the speed of your speech so we don't have to rewind the video serval times to pick up & process what you are saying. If you are anxious or nervosos to get the video over take a few minutes to settle down before starting to record. Thanks for the video we appreciate the knowledge being passed.
You can change the speed of the playback. Click the "gear wheel" settings icon bottom right. Also useful to speed up really slow talkers. Works on PC and tablet. Have not tried on a phone but I think it works there, too.