THE LEDGE TRUMP EXPLOIT
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- In Smash Ultimate, Collision Boxes exist when you hang on the ledge, even when invulnerable. In this video, I explain how this affects the meta.
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BACK TO THE LAB AGAIN!
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Did y'all also notice it's really hard to trump people quickly?
Yes...especially online...
Actually yes, but I've been using Sticky Ledge Run to make trumping easier: twitter.com/aperfectcreatio/status/1257702731260796928?s=19
Bowser Jr has a very hard time with the quick fastfall timing. I think DK and WFT have trouble with it as well.
I noticed SDing constantly with ICs when going for it. Traumatized me away from even attempting it
I one time ledge attacked the same time hitting Wolfs down smash as robin and it traded and i died......
I feel like one of the clunkier parts of this game is when you “stick” to a platform when you try to run off of ledges.
Probably the most clunky, annoying part
Yeah platforms suck
@@dubudubu2442 in a platform figher :c sucks
It's so clunky and annoying. Not to mention it prevents platform cancels, which were one of the coolest techs from the older games.
edit: I meant *edge cancels*, not platform cancels. My bad.
the DevName for runnign off is called RunFall
you only RunFall if you are on the edge,
No Fsmash buffered
and holding forward.
so if you just tap forward, you'll dash edge.. you need to hold forward to RunFall.
here's a tip: when you try to ledgetrump, always input jump while doing it so that if you do it successfully, the jump won't come out because of grabbing lag, but if you miss it, you'll instantly jump and come back to stage, so there's not rly any risk taken trying to get the ledgetrump
Can someone translate this for me in spanish?
@@poncholuna123 google translate?
This could potentially buffer jump from ledge online.
@@poncholuna123 El consejo es presionar salto luego de hacer el gesto para ledge trump. Si te sale el ledge trump, no saltarás por la animación de colgarte. Si no te sale, saltarás de inmediato y puedes volver al stage evitando mucho riesgo.
@@fernandobanda5734 Muchas gracias Fer!
omg this makes so much sense now wtf!!!! Ty gimr!!! I was practicing mad trumps because it was so frustrating to never get them in tournament and miss crucial kills... but i never tested against characters hanging there zzzzz
Beefy mate?
QB for Duelist Pro but instead of Snake and C4 you have a whole bunch of ledges to grab and it turns into a ledgetrump battle
Stay beefy vyQ
Explains how Leo is so good at ledge trumping in bracket.
he seems to do it more with lucina than joker it seems tho
but lucina probably has it easy too I have no idea
and also hes leo so... yeah
How much you wanna bet he knows about these differences already lol
@@liamcoulter9627 I can beat him
@@n13475 lmao
We are blessed that we have Gimr, did not know this lol
I've never sat through the outro. And now i have to do it every time. I love the outro so much XD
He better keep the outro in all his videos because I need it like I need air 😂
Fake fan
Fake fan then
Hussein Rizk I’m sorry what? I don’t understand why the word love is related to your sexuality and why you seem to think that’s funny
Ew why does this have so many likes. Yall are whack
GimR: "I realized the character doing the trumping also affects how hard it is."
Me: "So, Joker has it easy then?"
GimR two seconds later: "And, of course, with Joker-"
Me: *_*already starts laughing in Joker main_**
that exact thing happened to me too lmao
Why does Joker have it easy?
looks a lot easier for fastfallers, with wario it's harder to do than for chrom/roy/joker
And of course, Pac-Man is the hardest character to ledge trump. Like a Yoshi main said "Is amazing how randomly good this character (Pac-Man) is".
@@Niceguyhidden Joker is a more polished character in every regard. Everything works for him
As a Mario main, thanks for pointing this out, il stick to run off cape.
Sweet, in other words, I should go back to playing Mario.
You clearly didn't watch the video 😅
Lmao sick edit
@@JTPlayzGamesMore Well no, It was still more tech to learn since I never bothered with ledge trumping normally, I didn't even know how.
Then I remembered I haven't played Mario in a while when he got to that portion and its easier with him.
@@captanblue well your original was looks like I got more tech to learn and if anything this vid showed not to even bother with it due to inconsistency until he posts the new vid on Thursday
@@JTPlayzGamesMore thanks for clearing up what the original was I was confused
Opponent:
*I have the high ground*
Me, a Pac-Main at the ledge:
i HaVe ThE hiGh gRoUnD
Let me guess the solution: dash to ledge > pivot skid right before the very end > hold left joystick towards offstage > runoff animation cancelled with zero momentum > now you can trump pacman. Or roll to edge > same thing as above. Or dash grab. All these work for me when trumping pacman. Also dash attack but to a lesser degree
I KNEW IT! I was losing my mind because I could trump consistently but as soon as I tried trumping an actual character I would mess up a lot more and I couldn't figure out why.
Me: Watching this video.
You Tube: Hey, I recommend you to watch *this* video.
Me: But, I am watching it 🤨.
Funny thing is that I started practicing this tech a month ago with joker and I thought i just would get the timing wrong when doing it with other characters. Wow, turns out it’s just easier lol
I swear Gimr looks like a hostage begging for his freedom in every single video.
"Please send help before they getup attack me"
@@autumnshinespark XD
So first it's "please don't punch me" now it's that?
8.0 patch notes be like "removed collision boxes from characters while grabbing the ledge when invulnerable"
"And obviously characters that can grab the ledge with B moves don't have to worry about this"
Oh Mario, I love you so much.
"it's gonna be a lot of fun" while talking about the arms character... oh the innocence...
LMAO LITERALLY ME CHECKING RECENT COMMENTS FOR THIS HAHA
This explains why Ridley has an S-tier ledge trump. He is fast, heavy and has an amazing ledge snap range, which would mean that he doesnt care about the collision of the hanging character at all when going for a trump.
damn the weird character collisions break so many things in this game. They really need to let us pass through characters again.
It's not "broken" because it's different.
This is why the Smash community's mentality is duckshit. They just kneejerk and look at everything that isn't 1:1 exactly the same as *insert game here*
@@Robbie_Haruna It's just not as fun bro you don't need to over-analyze it.
Let's say a friend doesn't like pineapple on pizza. You serve him a pizza and as much as he'd wanna enjoy it, the pineapple bits ruin it for him. So he tells you, but you proceed to serve him pizza with pineapple every single time.
You BOTH know that you could easily enjoy the pizza if it wasn't for this annoying liitle thing. That's what Ultimate feels like. And the people saying "just accept that the game feels like dogshit or don't play it" seem like they don't understand how business and feedback works.
@@benjaminratthe9904 The game doesn't feel like dogshit though. That's just people exaggerating for the sake of it.
Exaggeration is a major tell for someone who can't actually come up with a decent criticism without exaggerating something x10.
The problem is people who see any mechanical changes then just knee jerk bash them because how dare a different game not just be a complete copypaste of the previous ones, (and this isn't just an Ultimate Problem, Smash fans have always been horrible about this.)
and yes, the removal of running through has caused issues on certain moves not connecting properly, but almost every complaint is "I have to do X in a different way than the last game," which is just bitching about something being different rather than being bad, (because too many smash players would rather moan about something rather than just learn that X behaves differently now and adapt (like any good player does.)
Frankly, despite a handful of fucky interactions, I prefer the lack of running though opponents. It's a welcomed indirect nerf to fast characters (who have pretty much always been overly dominant, and who are generally benefited the most by the other universal changes in Ultimate.)
Robbie Haruna The new collision physics are just plain bad, you sausage. The smash community can live without wavedashing, thats not actually what we care about. We just want the game to not feel clunky and sloppy i.e. increased character collision, the shitty buffer system, trouble falling off/through platforms, etc. Listen man, we are on a Gimr video, clearly both of us play this game every day. We love this game, and so does everyone else in this comment section whether they would like to admit it or not. We just want the little things that can ruin the experience to be changed. When i dash grab into a shielding bowser point blank and it WHIFFS, im not mad because “it wouldnt have whiffed in smash 4,” im mad because it should NEVER HAVE WHIFFED IN ANY GAME EVER
OH YEAH PACMAN REALLY NEEDED THAT
I always thought the difficulty in doing the "instant" trump is based on the character's fall speed. Also something I discovered is that the way to PREVENT the collision box from affecting your trump is to go for the trump AS they're grabbing the ledge, but before they're completely attached to it. It's pretty much the only way I could get a "floaty" character like Sonic to ledge trump anyone reliably (and the timing is quick enough to get his slower aerials to actually connect in time).
Besides Joker, Ice Climbers can ledge trump PAC-man with ease as well. They are also, hands down, the best at ledge trumping due to setups like the Big D allowing for kill confirms that most characters simply lack.
I’ve always noticed this but thought it was nerves too. Thanks for labbing and clarifying this.
Holy crap, something I've been doing before GimR found it? He explains it much better though so I can practice to make the execution better. Thanks man. The hero we need but don't deserve.
you can also trump someone by running off, tapping diagonally down and quickly return the stick to neutral. i find doing this so much easier, i don't know why i find it easier tho. it is what it is.
Oh so basically the new collision physics make this game needlessly complicated and cause nothing but jank??? Thank you sakurai, thank you so much for this fun new mechanic, i too love whiffing my dash grabs from point blank range.
Pivot grab?
You manage to find the craziest, most obscure tech/exploits.
Good shit 💪🏾
Pacman now s tier
Great vid GimR! I'm actually super impressed that you found out something this important before anyone else. Props man.
On one hand, its a crime Gimr only has 100kish subs. On the other hand, I'm glad to be part of the 100kish who know the tech he tells us about
I like how he takes the natural logical step a competitor would think of for counter play and goes further into the tech and it’s applications to show how it can be used
Collision is like one of my favorite things in this game. Love getting edge guarded by body block
Yeah but what about get up attack tho?? Oh, wait... he kinda covered that...
Ok GimR, I'll let it pass this time
Characters with a tether grab can RAR > short-hop > grab off the ledge to trump, abit harder than a normal trump at close distance, but more consistent
Just a little thing I wanted to say: Being invincible isn't the same as being intangible. Invincible state has collision, like when you respawn from the platform, intangible state doesn't, like rolling or spotdodging .
There's also a method of ledge trumping not quite sure if its useful for Pacs case but you can ledge trump the same way and if you miss the ledge trump its not as bad (fall to death, have to waste Up-b to get back to ledge, get punished with X move). Its basically you just do the ledge trump as you showed, but you just jump at the end. Be careful not to hold jump otherwise you'll get a ledge jump.
Istill don’t understand how you don’t have more subs. Major key channel for competitive players imo.
I'm pretty sure ZSS has it hard trying to ledgetrump in this game because she falls fast, has a small ledgesnap detection range behind her, and runs off of ledge at a large distance by default. Some ZSS labbers have found it easier to position yourself teetering off of ledge, start with your joystick up (if you don't have tap jump on), roll it to forward to walk off of the ledge, and then flick it back to the stage. This is obviously a bit more obvious and slower than dashing, though.
Nobody but gimr finds this shit out, he truly is the biggest brain when it comes to the logistics of the game, bravo! 👏🏻
Just to clarify, you can buffer jump during your fastfall as an option select. If u miss ur ledge trump u just jump back on stage. If u get the trump the jump doesn’t come out and u execute the bair
Just for a quick mind game option, I think it could be really good for a character like palu against pac man to purposely fail a ledge trump. If pac man has already run out of vulnerability (or will soon) you can run off stage and begin the fastfall, but instead of actually going to ledge you continue passed it while hitting pac man with a bair
The other time collision boxes are still interactable during invuln is when Lucina breaks a shield, the moment where the character flys up in the air they are invulnerable but you can still jump up and body block or "push" them off the stage. Very useful for killing people at zero who get caught shielding at the ledge.
Yet another consequence of the new character collision system. I really don’t understand what compelled the team to implement it when it’s very clearly creating more problems (implying there were any to begin with) than it’s solving.
I totally forgot the Arms character was even going to be in the game.
It's back to the lab with Gimr, and you too. Go test this out with your Characters. For real, man, do it
EdibleAsbestos yeah I play falco and Ike, it’s way easier to do with Ike...
What?! I never thought that collision exists with characters on ledge
So this explains why I get ledge trumped constantly by joker and Lucina
@GimR's Lab , I struggle with ledge trumping, but my typical method to do it easily is to fox trot into the ledge, then 180 the stick. I realize in my mistakes, when I fail it's because I'm not fully holding towards ledge with the 180 motion. I am able to do this consistently against Pac-Man in training mode. This is with Snake though.
Somewhat related, and works against pac-man: For Zelda, I like to summon a phantom while my opponent is moving towards ledge, as plenty of people do. But then I full-hop teleport to ledge. If you time it well, both drifting in and away during the trump will be hit by the phantom, getting some early KOs.
It won't work more than twice in a match, if your opponent has any sort of brain, but often can be unexpected enough to give you an edge.
“But this doesn’t affect b moves that grab ledge.”
*Laughs in Mario side B*
*guh huhs in Banjo down b*
@@AHGavInDaUSA A comment above says that you can side-B without wasting a wonderwing btw
Another thing to keep in mind is ledge trumping varies for every character, depending on run speed, some easier or more difficult than others
Back to the ledge again oh no
With Chrom (and other characters), you can roll to the ledge and hold shield, keep holding away from the stage, and drop shield to automatically trump. Super consistent trumps! A lot like the marth killer in melee. :y
I N S T A N T T E T H E R T R U M P G A N G
Me watching this as a joker main gave me my daily dose of serotonin so thanks for that.
So youre tired now?:D
DAMN THAT'S WHY IM STRUGGLING AT APPLYING IT OUTSIDE OF TRAINING
This is very interesting, can't wait for the counterplay video to come out. Great stuff as always, thanks GimR
Hi GimR! Thank you for the great content!
TLDR I'm wondering how hard ledge trumping is with Mythra/Pyra, hoping it's easier than average and might have decent followups/would be worth learning, thoughts?
(long version : You make ledge trumping sound so hard until you mention Joker haha. I just bought a switch and the game basically only to play Pyra/Mythra, and I was wondering how hard and how relevant it would be to learn ledge trumping on them (on each, I guess? maybe only worth on one of them?).)
Love how your videos are really precise and clear, and I was hoping to find a "visual" of the input/timing of ledge trumping and your video had just that and it helped so much! Cheers!
Damn that’s kinda sick.
Someone should make a tier list/graph for every character
4900 variables goodluck
You can probably check each character's Discord. I'm sure players are going to test it for each of their characters
Why is it that most tech tend to make degenerate characters even more degenerate, lmao
Dude right? Joker, Mario and Pac Man as examples made my stomach turn
@@user-ox3ov2qt5o Pacman is literally impossible to edgeguard, turns out he can safely stall on the ledge too
Thank you so much. I could never Trump as little Mac vs DK you're a genius. Also let me guess the "solution" dashtoward ledge > Dash away from ledge > then hold in the other direction again? Even if this isn't something you thought of it could still be useful.
Lucas can DJCZ back to ledge which makes this a lot easier, you don’t have to worry about hit boxes since his tether always grabs ledge
Thank GODDESS! I thought I was the only one having problems ledge trumping people in a real match when I’ve been consistently practicing and getting it in training mode
Damn and Nairo really be doing it perfectly out of instinct. What a beast
Banjo gang rise up, we got b reverse rear egg
perfect video
I was just yesterday getting super frustrated at the fact that i couldnt reliably ledge trump characters when they were hanging there, but i could do it every time when it was an empty ledge.
this makes sense to me now
yes
Olimar's eyes open
Ah yes,
valuable information
I found this a few months ago. While practicing stuff on olimar. You can footstool some characters.
Awwwww yis, gimme that tech
10/10 informational
This is similar in concept to wavedashing off the edge to grab the ledge.
I noticed this when trying to ledge trump in training mode and I couldn’t find a good answer online, thanks 💪
Another reason to hate collision boxes... Hopefully the quirks of this mechanic are addressed in the future.
Thank you esam’s brother
Thank you for your amazing lab work Gimr!
Half Circle back. Remember that.
This explains a lot. Thanks gimr!
Another video coming out Thursday?
Heck yeah
I love your videos they’re very helpful but I wish I could do this with cloud I’ve been trying to practice this for a very long time before you put this video out and I could barely get it now it makes sense I have to fast fall you’re my initial dash off ledge and then Jack I stick around to the other side to get it but I can’t do this in a real match like I tried to run off the ledge and tried doing this and I will get punished
Dang, I guess I can't ledge trump till Thursday.
*laughs in sonic spring recovery*
Mario mains can ignore this video
I love watching this channel even though I can’t get to elite smash
If your ~4900 number was from multiplying 70•70 I would like to politely point out that this would count many matchup pairs twice. Instead, you want to sum from 1 to 70, which is (70•71)/2, which is about 2500.
I’m also realizing that this is hardly relevant to the video but here’s the comment for anyone that was bothered by it XD
Don't ever get a hat, dude. I love your shiny head.
I main Pikachu and he has always had a fast ledge grab. So I been doing this more often lately. Good video!
OMG I thought it was just me being bad in real matches. I can get it pretty consistently in training but I couldn't do it very well when I put a CPU on the ledge and had no idea why.
*laughs in tether*
Mario got privileges
i noticed this day 1, but i didn't realize it was due to certain characters, thought it was just the game so I didn't go for ledge trumps anymore
The more I watch your Vids, GimR, the better I become.
Cloud can ledge trump with his Up-B pretty easily
it’s more efficient to run off the stage and immediately hold down and in for instagrab in my experience
aside from that good stuff
This is one of the first things I ever labbed
Came into this video pretty sure I wouldn’t learn anything.... I was wrong
it's a good day to be a Pacman main
Weird I just thought about gimr like a hour or two ago and this uploads