H-D Pan America VS BMW R 1250 GS | The Heavyweight ADV Battle
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ต.ค. 2024
- The Heavyweight Adventure Bike Battle we’ve been waiting for : Harley-Davidson Pan America versus BMW R 1250 GS. Does the Pan America have what it takes to eat into the GS’s market share? Let's find out!
#PanAmerica #R1250GS #AdventureBikes
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They didn't even mention Harley's automatic ride height adjustment while stopping. A great option for shorter riders.
The ride height adjustment works awesome. At 5:10 with short legs I sometimes have my toes down instead of my full foot on the BMW, but when the pan America stops it just sits right down, then picks right up as you go off. A real game changer that I am sure will appear on other brands soon.
@@threx0194 It's really incredible that the Pan America actually has some new innovations, in such a competitive market. The variable valve timing, the hydraulic valve lifters that don't need valve adjustments, and the automatic ride height. And the styling of the engine, and fit and finish of the engine. The engine is actually part of the overall look of the bike. The headlight also provides much better light potential, because it's a full light bar. The Harley engineers deserve a ton of praise, and they are obviously extremely good engineers.
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the ride height gizmo cost extra? It's not on the standard bike at all.
Great Idea from H-D though, saves you from needing a ladder to get on!
H-D also has 2 accessory seats available, one for longer inseams and another for shorter; the stock seat is in the middle.
Each of the 3 seats has 2 ride height positions, standard and low. It looks like between the adaptive ride height suspension on the Special, along with the available seats and installed height option, the Pan America has a broad range of available seat heights.
@@stuartgreenfield6302 It is a $1000 option.
Really excited for HD to get into this sport - I'll stick with my GS but I can't wait to get some waves from more HD riders and my day will be made to see folks standing up on a Harley. Welcome to the woods, Harley - good on you and I hope you knock this out of the park!
More like standing up in there garage garage floor!
Agreed. I'm a new GS owner but I'm digging the PA as well. (my wallet isn't digging it, that's for sure)
@@fulltilt151 Why? The HD is a bit cheaper...you could have saved enough for a new helmet.
@Baldspot
You're probably right,but that being said,---k them.
@@dr.bherrin oh no, I didn't buy new. My GS is '15.
I bought the Pan America Special. I know of the quality of the BMW and its proven reliability. Harley has dealerships close by and this was the main factor in buying this adventure/touring bike. I feel very comfortable on the bike and am still getting a feel for the bike.
gotta love the 2 year unlimited mile warranty! Have fun on that machine
I BROUGHT THE HARLEY DAVIDSON PAN-AMERICA FOR ONE MAIN REASON. " EXPENSE " ! WHEN IT COMES TO SERVICE AND REPAIRS, BMW MOTORCYCLES CAN BE JUST AS COMPLICATED AND EXPENSIVE AS THE CARS TO SERVICE . THE HARLEY DAVIDSON TO ME , STANDS UP TO THE GS QUITE WELL AND DOES THE SAME THING FOR LESS MONEY. I OWNED A BMS GS 1250 AND TO ME, A DUAL SPORT BIKE IS A " DUAL SPORT BIKE" . IT'S ALL ABOUT THE NAME YOU WANT TO PAY FOR AND WITH BWM, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE PAYING FOR. SURE YOU GET NICE AMENITIES BUT YOU'RE PAYING A DOUBLE DOLLAR FOR THEM TOO. TRY THE HARLEY DAVIDSON PAN-AMERICA. I BET YOU'LL LOVE IT ! ALL BMW IS GOING TO DO IS ADD MORE FEATURES AND OPTIONS TO THE GS AND ALL THAT'S GOING TO DO IS SEND THE PRICE TO THE MOON FOR A DRESSED UP DIRT BIKE; AND IF YOU NEVER GO IN THE DIRT, THEN WHY PAY ALL THAT MONEY. UNLESS OF COURSE, YOU JUST HAVE TO HAVE THE NAME BMW.
Personally, not interested in the H-D. I'll take the GS any day. Shaft drive, the best suspension architecture in class.... and over 40 years of proven capability / reliability in the field. However, well done H-D for an innovative addition to your line up. I'm sure it'll be a hit for you - especially at home in the US. Any success in the ADV class is a win for all of us and its great to see H-D bring over 100 years of tradition and experience to the table. Oh.... and not needing any valve maintenance ? Thats awesome !
Maintenance is a huge factor in any gas engine, much rather be doing less maintenance then more maintenance
I ended up buying the HD PAS and will not look back. Thanks Harley Davidson for a great motorcycle
I bought the Harley-Davidson Pan America and I love it. Th small differences in sophistication are not even noticed or missed . I live in Montana where dealerships are few and far between but I have a better chance of service with the Harley-Davidson. BMW dealership is a long way from hear, about eight hours and three for the Harley. The U.S. has Harley dealers all over the place. The Pandemic has killed many of them but there are still many left. The Harley just makes more sense for me. If I lived in Europe I may go with the GS.
A really good review. I’ve taken the gamble and ordered a Pan Am S. I nearly bought a GS Adventure in January but the pan with the addition of laced wheels and adjustable ride height is still £2500 less and has all the same tech, plus you lose about 15% power with shaft drive and about 5% with chain. I’ve equipped the Pan with all the luggage, sat nav Is free compared to £600 on the BMW. All of the reviews on TH-cam so far are giving the Harley a good rating. It looks as if the Pan will not be any better than the beemer but will cost a lot less. You really need to ask yourself if you’re considering a BMW, what am I getting for roughly 15% more in cost fully equipped 😳
I've ordered the Pan America last February. I'm changing my Street Glide Special for the RA1250S .. I should receive my unit this May . Can't wait to ride it! ..
The Pan AM S and GS Adventure are not equals. The GSA had a nearly 9 gallon fuel tank and comes with full armor plus the all the mounting hardware for hard bags from the factory just to name a few things.
Not knocking the Pan Am S but that is not a proper comparison as they are not equal. The Pan Am has a much higher center or gravity which is very noticeable when compared to the GS. The Pan Am is gutless below 3500 rmp but the GS has grunt down low where you need it when off roading. The Pan Am gives of a good amount of engine heat and sends it to your feet, predominantly the right foot. I own a 18 BMW R1200GS Rallye which is comparable to the Pan Am S and I just solo tested the Pan Am S today for 30 miles in the Arizona desert. Harley certainly did a great job from the gate but my opinion it needs more refinement and I'm not interested in being a beta test subject.
@@roadrash76 Have you been riding a Pan Am ?
Beemers are brilliant bikes. But when you talk torque and horsepower you need to note that shaft drive reduces horsepower by 15-20% hence BMW worked on torque. Chain drive you lose 4-5% power so you don’t on balance need the same level of torque. It’s all about the adventure bike experience, each bike delivers it differently and it’s down to personal choice.
@@TwoGoTouring yes I have. I did a solo ride in the AZ desert this weekend
The only way to know is to ride both in some serious dirt. Numbers on paper aren't the whole story. I own a 2018 1200 GSA, a great bike. But the Harley's narrower profile inline V, chain drive and 150HP makes for an interesting comparison. Looks pretty good!
I personally like the looks of the Harley better. But, I'd gladly ride either one.
Looks of the Harley, this thing fell out of the ugly tree and then hit every branch on the way down.
A couple things stand out. Harley bikes are known for having the most aftermarket parts availability, compared to other companies. American companies are going to create a huge selection of very high quality aftermarket accessories, and engine upgrades for the Pan America. This is going to make long term ownership a better investment, because the aftermarket parts will assure long term popularity and an upward trend in popularity over time, similar to the Hayabusa or other Harley cruisers. And the other thing is chain drive sprockets, allow easy gear ratio changes. Changing to a 20 tooth smaller sprocket on the rear, could turn the bike into an all day interstate cruiser, at 78 mph. This drastic change is something possible with sprockets, and not possible with shaft drive. I personally think motorcycles have way too low of gear ratios from the factory, and changing to higher gears seems required for anyone who is serious about highway driving.
Just watched a owner review. He was riding at 65 mph in 5th at 3800. I think 6th will put you in the 80mph range at 4k rpm or less. That's less than 50% of redline which is the same for the big touring bikes. The owner stated that the engine does start "feeling busy" or wound up until 4800 rpm which would be well into the 90's. Sounds like it should be fine in long rides. He also commented that the airflow behind the windscreen was very calm at 65. That's a bunus on long rides.
Shaft drive Outlast 2 B they are attached to who are you kidding
After market parts is really important. Extremely hard to find any aftermarket parts for my Tiger 1200 😕
Confession time !! With two weeks left until I picked up my Pan Am I cancelled the order. A group of us got the demonstrator out for a trial. 3 bikes … a GSA, Pan and Ultra ( which doesn’t count here ). The rear seat passenger comfort was terrible for the three ladies we had with us. All of them agreed there was an over reliance on the grab rails for any sort of braking and the rear foot pegs are rear set. My wife has been on many bikes and just said …. I couldn’t go touring on it and all three of the ladies agreed and they are seasoned, fit pillions.
So I now have a new GSA and love it 👍
Other than passenger comfort, what did you think of the PA? For me that's not of importance, my wife has her own machine. I have a KTM 1290 SA and a BMW 1600GTL. I would be replacing the KTM. The wife definitely doesn't like the KTM, but loves the BMW. I love both, but travel single on the KTM. The test rides I've done on the PA, definitely liked the bike. Safe travels.
I’m sticking with my BMW. I sat on the Pan Am. That was all I needed to know.
Both are really nice bikes. I went with the Tiger 1200 for my adventure bike.
PanAm offers Adaptive ride height. It lowers seat up to 2" when stopped. Combine that with the reach seat in the low setting and seat is 4" lower than stock. Easily lower than the GS.
Yeah, I was surprised they didn't mention that in the comparison.
Adaptive ride height is only available on the higher price level.
@@craigweyna9063 still, claiming the BMW is better for shorter riders without so much as a mention of this innovation is a massive error in a comparison test suggesting he barely even skimmed the specs and made a video.
Seemed somewhat biased to me. Most have commented that the PanAm's traction/stability control and adjustability is top notch yet the reviewer automatically threw a biscuit to the beloved one. More power, less weight. 10x the number of dealers/service locations and more evenly distributed throughout the USA. It's becoming an easy decision for me since I plan to travel nationwide on mine.
@@burbman56 - we already travel nationwide on BMWs and we don't need a dealer on every other corner to support us. In fact, the only time I've visited a dealer other than my home dealer is just to stop in and see what they have. That said, the PanAm is a great first effort from HD and I hope it does well. Yes I have ridden one and I am not ready to give up my GSA at this point. All the best and I hope to see you on the road/trail.
Will the new kid on the block beat the granddaddy of them all? As one who will be purchasing a large ADV bike in the near future, right now I'm leaning toward the Pan America even though I have always wanted a GS. The adaptive ride height feature of the HD is a real game changer for me (5' 10" tall on a good day). I also like the cheaper price overall and the lower maintenance cost of the HD (yes to hydraulic valves!). Congratulations, Harley Davidson, for building what should be a winner for the Motor Company.
Great posted.
I am a long time HD 48 owner and recently owned GSA 1250.
First I did not like the look of HD Pan America, then when I see it by naked eyes, I totally changed my mind and about to get one ( if my wife gives me a yes ).
I hope you own the PA by now
I’m a longtime GSA owner and recently took out a Pan America when the factory test ride fleet came to my area.
The bike surpassed my expectations.
The engine power is the smooth with lots of mid and top end power. The transmission is probably the smoothest shifting in its class…..amazing for a HD.
The comfort level is beyond any of my GS’s. The seat was extremely comfy, although I felt the windscreen could have been better.
I now have a deposit down on what will be my first HD.
How was the level of heat from the engine?
@@bukweet Living in Texas, I specifically wanted to find that out myself. Unfortunately it was a cool day in the low 50’s, but I let it idle until the fan cycled on. Most of the heat from the fan seemed to exit on the left side. I feel like the fan will throw some heat, but as far as heat while riding, the verdict is still out.
I did notice plastic wind deflectors on each side of the radiator, so maybe heat management has been addressed.
Have never heard a bigger BS than this. And I say this both as a long GSA owner and a HD owner.
@@grzegorzgrotkowski6575 Well, I’ve owned several. My first new BMW was a 2003 R1150GS Sport, I believe it was only made in 2003. This bike is a rare one, it only came in one color (sun yellow), and was no ABS.
I bought this bike from the old BMW of Fort Worth dealership back when it was ran by Perry (RIP) and Mary Bushong. I never had the surging issue reported by many on the single spark 1150 oilhead.
My next new BMW was an 2004 Orient Blue K1200GT. I really liked that bike, the “flying brick” motor was about as smooth as an electric motor. I once rode it from Tx to LA, up the PCH to Monterrey, and back to Tx (5,000 mi).
Next, I had a twin spark 1150RT. Great bike, but I never really liked the feel of the servo brakes. Next, I had a bought a new 2009 R1200GSA hexhead with ESA.This was the last year of the screw adjustment valves, before the camhead came out in 2010. No problems other than the famous fuel level strip failure every 12-24 months (BMW acknowledged and warrantied this part for 12 years!).
Next, I had a R1200GSA “wet head”. Plenty of recalls, but a good bike. I test rode a R1250GS shiftcam, but after being soured by so many recalls, I decided to buy a Multistrada Enduro, which ended up being the right decision since I would have gotten caught up in the Hayes brake recall fiasco.
Yeah, I’ve had my share of BMW’s.
@@grzegorzgrotkowski6575 Have you actually ridden a Pan America? If not, don’t pass judgment until you do.
Take a look at all the reviews on TH-cam, I’ve yet to find a negative one.
One of the better reviews is from the guy that runs AdvRider.com (screen name Baldy). He, like me is a longtime BMW rider, so see what he says about the bike.
th-cam.com/video/8u_TxONXIro/w-d-xo.html
Been riding motorcycles for 50 years, own two now and just ordered my third. Test road both, could not tell that much of a deference between the two, ordered a PAS because it was cheaper comparably outfitted and believe it or not the BMW dealer acted like I was bothering him and treated me like sh**, never thought in a million years Id say the HD dealer treated be better but damn if it didn’t happen
HD Pan America also has the feeling of a cruiser bike, which is good motivator for someone who is reluctant to switch to adventure bikes.
Honestly very interested in the Harley, If I can afford it, I would definetly buy it
At least you qualify for the Harley in one category. You "definitely" can't spell.
@@jimbob7559 English isnt my native language. But I see you also had to edit your reply, so I guess you ain't much better. Go troll somewhere else.
Don’t buy a Harley lol
@@sandorboga1302 I didnt
BMW is a real legend and I really love it. But the new comer is a real challenge to him. Pan Am is a beauty❤️❤️
Took a good demo ride yesterday. Not ready to give up my R1250GSA, but a formidable first effort from HD. We'll see how it evolves and what support HD gives the segment in the coming years.
I’ll never ride an adventure bike , due to the bike exceeding my capabilities , however ; I love this new Harley . I’m very excited for them to make this work !
Check out the much smaller ADV bikes. The new KLR is a single cylinder and comes with paneers. Not all of them are 1200 mL monsters
A review cant be taken serious when there is no ride on a real bike. Good to know the configuration.
One thing to keep in mind is the size of the dealer networks in the USA. Harley has a massive presence all over the country. BMW does not. I was very happy about that when, in central Indiana, a piece of road debris removed the rear caliper of my Road King and shredded the tire. Three hours later, I was on my way. Poorer, but on my way.
Not only the HD dealer network, also the massive indy shop shop network.
H-D owner here. Harley is definitely the better looking bike, but the bimmer has the market cornered. Harley will have to over deliver on all features and maybe even use predatory pricing methods to steal BMWs customer base. Not to mention create a culture similar to BMWs adventure crowd. Great review. My next bike is a BMW R 1250 RS
Initial sales and comments here and throughout the internet indicate that they are well on their way to taking some Bimmer business away. Initial allotments are all sold out at the 3 dealerships near me. They are selling faster than they can make them. The dealer in my town sold theirs on pre-order deposits before they arrived.
Better looking bwaaaaa haaaaaa haaaaaaa
Excellent comparison. I will still go with BMW as for some reasons I don't like the looks of HD
Looks? Ok you do understand what is really important in life.......
@@stephennault1442 Come on, we are not the same! We care for the looks too!
While we can't all have the same tastes, there is always choice. Some will like it and I will guess many won't. Heck, there were a few people out there that though the Pontiac Aztek was a good looking vehicle. Those few who liked it didn't save it. With the front end detracting so much from the rest of the bike's good looks, the bike would have to blow away the competition for it to be desirable to me..
I just purchased the 2022 pan America, i love this bike, i have several makes and models. i give the pan America a 12 on a fun factor, power, nimbleness, on a scale of 1-10
Both are really nice bikes. I went with the Tiger 1200 for my adventure bike.
Great comparison. Actually in the process of deciding whether to buy a 1250GS or a Pan America. The PA is looking more preferable as its a unique bike & the special is so much cheaper than the equivalent GS. Prior to this I would neve have considered buying a Harley so they are doing something right then.
@@MagSidious Thanks for asking the question.Well I brought a Pan America & literally having ridden it for under 600 miles regretted buying it. Now that is not to say its a bad bike ,but given it was new to HD I kept reading about the problems other owners were experiencing ,& indeed mine broke down after riding it for only 27 miles , I began to worry & decided to part exchange it for a Fatboy. I brought this because I was now in the HD clan & had made some good friends. One of the first lessons I learnt through this whole process is not to believe all you read about Harley riders.Anyway long story short I also didn't like this & sold it back to the dealer. So by now the pool of money I had when I brought the PA had greatly reduced which meant realistically I was back in the used bikes market. Having regretted selling my 2008 GS I knew I wanted another and I have ended up with a 2018 plate 1200gs. OK not the 1250 but I am glad to be back on one because I like the low down torque abd it's whole character. It's something the PA didn't have for me. But all that said I am not now going to slate the PA as its a good bike but it just didn't do it for me.
It's now been sone months so given the money I have wasted its great that my wife is now talking to me again. Stay safe.
@@MagSidious Your the first person I have discussed the PA with that thinks like I do it's a great looking bike. I have yet to see a photo of it that does it justice. I should also have added earlier that inn comparison to the GS when I bought it it was less money so that also influenced me in buying it. This years model it is a lot more expensive. It seems just like I was you are worried about it going wrong but let's put this into some sort of perspective. The one I brought was the first ever PA so there was always going to be issues with it.Ok mine broke down & the dealer very quickly dealt with the problem. Where I brought mine from they sold quite a few and I only know of one that seemed to have various issues. A group of the buyers have taken them off road without having any issues as well. I only used mine on road and it was plenty fast enough with great handling but one of the issues for me was that I once again had to worry about keeping the chain lubed which I find a pain. As for the speed in Sports mode the PA just wanted to fly whereas my GS I get more enjoyment in having the low down torque. Another thing I didn't like about the PA is where the battery is located as its low down and I wonder whether you could damage it if your riding off road. Why I don't know but I just prefer having an hydraulic clutch instead of a cable that the PA has. But all that said by the time you buy yours it would have been out several years so most of tge small problems should have been ironed out.And as much as I like my GS there is no more iconic bike than a Harley. Park it by a GS & everyone would be looking at the Harley. The other asset of riding a Harley is that you are able to attend so many rallies wherever you live in the world. Although I lost financially I certainly gained when it come to making new biker friends. Yes of cause I am limited to what ride outs I can go on & many keeping ridiculing me for riding a Beemer but it's all in good fun. You also got to remember that whatever bike you own if you go on to any forum there will be someone moaning about its reliability. I hope this will assist you in making a decision when you do come to buy one and I would just add that aged 71 I intend to ride as long as I am able to whatever make of bike it may be.
I tryed the panam....and a was amazed. Ordered one at sight
Just out of curiosity, I'm also on the market for an adventure bike, What did you not like about the BMW1250GS when you tried it?
@@fritzpohl too heavy,less power and bad for short people.
Harley PA has automatic lowering suspension at lower speed and it could get you 4 inches lower than the standard so you couldn't lose control.
Hate the beak on the GS,but it's shaft drive is a huge plus over the competition.
Agreed 👍 the front end looks so much better on the Harley
We definitely need a lot more side-by-side comparisons and reviews.
I would take the Pan America over the BMW. The Brakes on the BMW had all kinds of issues in 2020, this was the main reason I told the dealer to sell me the 2020 KTM 1290 Super Adventure that was sitting next to the BMW's lol.
They recalled all of them and are replacing them with Brembos. From a reliability standpoint KTM wouldn’t be even my 5th choice.
@@bizzfo haven’t had any issues with mine but ya their track record sucks they are just now getting in the game ya know, with all the mx, motogp, Dakar list goes on. Ya who would want that track record...should have gotten the slow and expensive BMW to take to the coffee shops instead!
Just a bit of bias in this review. I’m guessing the narrator had just bought a new GS.
Haha maybe Rust Bucket 93! I went with the Tiger 1200 but both these bikes are really nice!
So I own harleys, bmw’s, KTM’s and Yamahas. I test rode both the Panamerica and the GS today both 2021. I am sorry to say that the Pan does not compare to the GS. It felt clunky and buzzy and weird. The GS is much more balanced and refined. I am no BMW fanboy but the only thing that is as good, maybe better is the Ktm1290 SA
There both really nice bikes! But I decided to go with the Tiger 1200 Rally Explorer. For many reason but one reason being the 3 year unlimited mileage warranty from Triumph.
Man I love the front clip on the Harley awesome
That's what got me. Just got mine yesterday
This is the review I've been waiting for. I am trying to decide which of these two are my next bike. I think the BMW is the better looking bike, but have been a loyal HD rider for years. I am going to test drive the Pan America on Wednesday, and I have a friend who is going to let me ride his GS for comparison. So many things to consider. Thanks for posting this video, nice job.
Yes between the GS and the Pan Am, it would be very personal choice. Both are great bikes. Both have their pros and cons
Which one did you get?
@@edtotman2952 I ended up with the Pan America. I am very happy with the bike, I just wish I could get the accessories. I just got the Mosko Moto Reckless 80 soft bags to use until my Panniers come in next year.
Did big sur from LA last week. My buddy and I, mine r18 and his rented Pan America. We switched the bikes a few times. This is my over a 100 a mile on open road, twisties, and city drive thoughts:
👍
Less vibration
Punchy
Snappy (very very fast bike)
Seat can be lowered for city and back up
Nimble
Looks sexy (subjective)
👎
Heavy
Gets really hot (medium rare between your inner thighs in city)
Side kick stand sucks!
Non keyless entry (2021)
Wind screen vibrates a bit...
Handguards are of low quality
Price-
I have a new Harley cvo love it. also a BMW 1250 gs. I test rode the HD it is slightly faster in a drag race. That is where it ends the BMW is sooo much more refined, more low end grunt. The BMW travels at 6mph at idle in first gear and never wanted to stall. I did the same test with the HD its Idle speed was 9 mph and wanted to stall. so going thru the rough stuff slowly the BMW is like a jeep in low granny gear. The brakes are far better and the BMW especially the rear with its twin piston caliber. the stand up position is better on BMW. on the HD you really halt to reach for the bars and just don't feel right slouched over to reach them. suspension again BMW wins with its telelever front set up. The bike stays level with no front end dive. The HD is a nice bike again I loves HD and have owned many. But the BMW with its 40 years of refinement wins this one. IMO.
As soon as I get my Street Glide paid off I’m buying a Pan America Special with all options and retire my KTM 530 EXC-R
Good luck grabbing a test ride on the Pan American. We won't have any at dealerships around here until the middle of June.
Going to demo ride the PA today. Woot. Enjoyed the comparison but wished it also included the KTM 1290
Good luck to you Vern. Do let us know your thoughts and experience of the PA demo ride! ✌️
The demo rides were great & a fun relaxed event. I wish I could have rode in sport mode but I completely understand and would do the same if I were MoCo. Even in street mode done right WOT would lift the front wheel on two of the shifts so great fun power to weight. A speed shifter option in sport mode would not be for the inexperienced.
Having owned many dirt bikes I thought the pegs were an inch or two behind normal position. You could still easily stand on them just seems they should have been forward more. Seat was great. Low speed off idle torque seemed a bit soft for off road maneuvering which felt more like a little too much computer engine management.
No major complaints or nags this would be a really fun cool bike to own. Oh sound, she is really quiet. The SE pipe is expensive & still quiet but has much better sound and saves a lot of weight. Looking forward to what the aftermarket comes up with for this. Last trails and all the off road fun type riding they show on videos would be a blast as would say something like a poker run being fun different and still Harley cool. Lol and with plenty of power to easily put in on the vast majority.
BMW has the better design, but, it's a BMW, which means it's JUNK. I have owned 2 BMWs (neither one a GS) and both fell apart on me. BMW build quality is absolutely AWFUL. I hope H-D did a better job, and I'm waiting for someone to break one. IMO however, both these bikes are simply way too big and heavy to be good adventure bikes, and the price tags are absurd. I currently ride a 2017 KLR650. It is my fourth KLR650, and I just love these bikes. You can buy THREE of them for the price of one of these huge monstrosities.
Nice job hd
I drove both I have to tell you the Harley did an amazing job on this new model they are just one click away behind the GS and I believe that on the second model up they might surpass the Beamer which is currently the kink and the gold standard
3 years from now: remember when Harley tried to make an adventure bike? 😂
The years later and they are still selling...
I'm not sure this is a very accurate comparison. The automatic ride height adjustment is a game-changer for shorter riders. Also, the Harley is significantly less expensive than the BMW. The base prices are similar, but no one buys a BMW at base price. You actually have to add on the crash plates, ride, engine guards, etc., on the BMW to equip it the way a stock Pan America special is equipped. That makes it more expensive. I've ridden both, and the Pan America in my opinion is better suited for really knarly off-road adventures. The BMW is more protected and more comfortable for road touring. Both will do either competently. The Pan America certainly had significant new model issues, especially coming out during the Pandemic and suffering significant supply chain issues. in addition, there was an extremely steep learning curve for the dealerships. Even today, you need to choose a technician specifically fully trained on the Pan America in order to receive competent service. This partially negates the advantage of the ubiquitous Harley dealerships. It may be much harder to find a BMW motorcycle dealership, but on the other hand the GS is extremely well known by all of their techs when you do find one. The Pan America also takes a hit extremely well. I think it's simply a more plush, more powerful, and more diverse Africa Twin. The thinness of the bike makes it more like the Africa Twin than the GS adventure. That being said, the Africa Twin is a legend and extremely reliable. It may have significantly less power than the Pan America or the GS Adventure, but it still has more power than 99.9% of riders will ever use. After riding all three I don't think one is "the best". They're just different and each excels in its own way.
Both bikes look great. I am long time Beemer fan
In Europe the GS is the best selling bike, I’ve had three and I’d buy another, good effort HD but the front is so ugly and it needs shaft drive, I’ll stick with my GSA😀
@@BaronvonOldenbiker Naa, the front is iconic, looks exactly like a MZ ES 175/2 Trophy. An hommage of capitalism to the long forgone socialist eastgerman experiment. Make the DDR great again ---
The Beemer is ugly
Agreed. The HD is looks better in person than it does in pictures but that front light is horrible.
I am going to buy the Harley.
Guess you are blind
@@catd11ng74 If you were facing me you chickenshit Internet Rambo, I don't think you would say that.
Go get it! What is holding you back?
@@fritzpohl Nothing, I did buy one last August. The hold up was availability. I ordered my Pan America and got it in 6 weeks.
Although you mentioned that the BMW has a slightly lower seat height you don't mention that the Harley has suspension that lowers when comming to a stop for shorter riders, although this is only on the top model. My money is still with the BMW in this shootout although I will stick with my Super Tenere cheers. 😁👍🏼
I prefer the Pan Am look to the GS, so I brough the Pan Am and I'm more than happy with it.
I'm in the market for a new adventure bike.. trying to track down a Honda Africa.. not sure if this Harley does it for me or not...
I want that Harley
Go get it!
Many of these reviews I see on TH-cam, read the same information on the brochure and website. If you are a seasoned rider and had your share of the two wheel world, would like to see in depth analysis of the nuts and bolts. They show you professional or highly experienced riders doing hooplas on these motorbikes that most riders don’t do or attempt for many reasons including damages and the expensive costs to repair. It does give an overall surface comparison between the two for its value.
Response 3 years later…. To the doubters. Yes the Harley has been successful and is still around in 2024.
I test rode the PA. It’s a great bike but I’d have to change some things to make it work for me and I didn’t walk away feeling like I had to have it. If H-D makes a sport tourer from this platform, I’ll take another look. It’s got the beans, just wasn’t comfortable and it needs better luggage options.
it is not a sport tourer but an adventure bike. Completely different type of machine.
@@laflammr I know the difference, I own a ST, but like the GS, the RT is made on the same platform. Something to consider. It wouldn't be difficult for HD to do. It probably would still have the seat to peg issues for me, but the wind protection should be better. A ST usually comes with luggage too.
@@my.motorrad that is great. How does it compare off road with the competition. I am only interested in adv not touring If I want touring I will buy a touring bike. Not a adv bike. The PA was built for off road.
@@laflammr Most adv bikes aren’t taken off road and at worst most that are probably see just gravel roads. to put it another way, you’re an outlier. FWIW? I’ve done the Apache Trail with my RT. It’s not optimal, but it will do it. As far as the PA goes, I imagine the same demographic usage will apply.
@@my.motorrad ok, I did not look at it that way., because some of my friends are off road maniacs and to them the BMW is the cream of the crop. I just assume that someone buying an adv would go off-road. My mistake.
I owned a Buell Ulysses with the HD thunderbolt engine and it was one of my favorite bikes. I'm sure HD learned a little about adventure bikes from Buell.
There is no better allroad bike then the GS.
Ride a Pan Am and get back to me.
Yes, BWM is the best, americans can stick to their 'choppers' and racing in circle
@@joshrandall5297 did ride the PA last week, a good bike. But my gsa is still a better allroad bike.
@@mastaization we don't do boxes.
Africa twin forever
Didn't mention the adaptive suspension that senses weight and adjusts accordingly for specific load and ride
I just bought a new pan America today!
the HD is intriguing and the looks are awesome, but personally I'd prefer shaft drive vs chain
I've ridden both bikes and my choice is the pan america...it's much more more agile and more powerful.
When do shaft drives fail on the side of the road? Way superior to chain for this duty.
54Rocketeer I’m glad my Tiger 1200 has a shaft drive. One reason I went with the Tiger 1200 is because of that. Both these bikes are nice though.
Excited to ride this bike, but please STOP comparing to the GS....
the GS1250, Tiger1200, Tenere 1200 are in a league of their own... SHAFT DRIVE.
and why i love my 2016 ST...
Point is the new PA is a chain so its direct competition is KTM1290, Ducati 1250, and even the smaller Vstrom, and a few others.
I rode a Vstrom for almost 80k miles then bought a low mileage Yamaha ST as my first shaft bike and love it SO much.
Already ridden it almost 40k miles and dont regret it one second. Chain maintenance sucked so bad.
Now.. for those that scream I'm not a true off roader, I live on a 15 mile grave/dirt rd and do packed fire lanes, love gravel roads and hard creek crossings so somewhat off road but never any soft mud or anything i get stuck in in because I usually ride alone and no way can I get it out alone...
I did heavy off road with the KLR years ago and after getting my first DL1000 buried in a muddy creek the first time out on a HEAVIER bike i learned my lesson.
I do know TWO guys that actually go off-road on there big heavy 1200's but they are together and have 30 years off-road experience. 95percent of all 1200 (big) ADV riders will never do any serious off road riding and thats ok. So for me, going back to a chain is not something i want to do. I just think of how often chain maintenance HAD to be done because of dusty gravel roads .. uggghh.
Good video.
HD all the way.
Go get it! I heard that the HD colors are far far superior than those that BMW has to offer!
The Harley is vanishingly rare on the UK. Most brand devotees are still stuck in the middle-aged renegade cowboy Harley fantasy of earlier decades....
But both Harley's and GS BMWs seem here to be exclusively the domain of older riders who get more pleasure from blipping the throttle at a red light than from riding.
What has happened to motorcycling?
After taking a PA for a ride yesterday I am very impressed. My major concern is the location of the radiator, voltage regulator and the battery. They are positioned right behind the front tire. I know they have an optional skid plate and guard for the radiator but the radiator guard will still allow smaller stones and debris to constantly pound on it. It would be horrible to be out in the wilderness with a packed radiator and the engine overheating or even worse puncturing it. The BMW's radiators are well up and out of the way of the front tire. What are your thoughts about the location of the PA's radiator and should I be as concerned as I am. The HD is new and unproven. I have always lived by waiting to buy the first year of anything to allow the bugs to get worked out. After riding the PA I really want to get it though. I am going to try to schedule a ride on the BMW to compare.
Harley is done and good riddance
While up front cost may be more, the cost of ownership for the BMW made the decision for me in favor of a GS when I bought back in 2020. Looked at a couple Harley's but the amount of dealer service they require is formidable. They let you roll some of the scheduled service into the price of the bike but geeze, why do their bikes need wrenched on so much? That said, were I buying again, I'd have to look hard at the new Pan America but the jury is out until they have an ownership track record. BTW, BOTH of those bikes are a challenge off-road due to their size and weight. I'd choose a single-cylinder something for serious off-roading.
The dealer was promoting their service for touring/cruiser bikes. The service intervals can be performed by the user and maintain warranty. It's simple stuff. 1000 mile breaking oil change and inspection, then 10k service and every 10k after that with 5k oil changes. It's just inspections and fluid changes until you need breaks or tires. The BMW requires valve adjustment at 12k with 6k fluid changes. I'd do mine at 5k anyways. Seems pretty similar to me.
Im taking a GS1200 to the salvage yard with only 35K street miles. The GS is wore out in almost every part. PS: I got plenty of degrees on maintenance, I know how to fix/maintain stuff, one CAN"T on the BMW! BMW has no support in parts, service and dealers in USA. The HD just have to build a good smart bike, every town has a HD dealer for parts, service and help. For the hell and money loss BMW has gave me, I wish the HD great success and wish BMW to go bankrupt!
The only way you could break a GS at 35000 miles would be by abuse and neglect.
And rest assured BMW will never go bankrupt
Lol!! If anyone will go bankrupt it will be hd. Their finances have not been good in many years. Why! Because you can buy a 40 year old hd or a brand new and they look almost the same. Almost sound the same. Almost vibrates the same, almost the same colors, almost the same handling. And they brake down the same. And finally when hd at last released a new model the pan america it's one of the ugliest bikes ever built.
Great video. A buddy of mine is looking at a bucket list trip to dead horse AK. He is a BMW guy and I know nothing about adventure bikes.
This info helps.
Ride safe
How much is the Pan american going to cost?
Adaptive Ride Height, self-adjusting valves, and dealer network give the edge to the Harley. You gave seat height advantage to BMW, but failed to mention Harley's Adaptive Ride Height. You call yourself a reviewer?
There is no edge! BMW sold 1,200.000 (one point two million ) GS bikes .
Harley has an automatically adjusting suspension.
BMW has it for about 10 years, and had plenty of opportunity To evolve and fin tune it.
Hopefully when HD took those BMW R1200GSA to their R&D department and retro engineered them to fit their factory tooling, they copied at least a little bit of the genius that is the GS's suspension.
don't forget, BMW is perfecting its product for over 40 years, there is a lot of exepitional German engineering available to them and they can afford to contract it.
Another great video, great passion for motorcycles, I love adventure bikes & love the BMW gsa ! Agree harley pan American will have to prove itself in real world conditions 👍
If only my lottery numbers whould come in
Please, be as honest as you possibly can!
If you would win the lottery, and from the bottom of my heart I hope you do, would you buy yourself a Chevy, a Ford, a Chrysler, a Dodge or would you buy a Lamborghini, a Porsche, an Audi, a BMW, or a Mercedes?
The student will become the new master.
I hope that Harley can perform, because looks really ugly !
Rode the PanAm at Expo East. its scary fast. Easily hitting 100 in 4th gear... But both the GSA and the PanAm require high octane fuel....Africa Twin can run on the crappy gas you can get in any station, in any country.... Plus, its a Honda.... winner, winner... chicken dinner.
Seems a bit biased toward Harley?
I thought the opposite.
@@ModernNeandertal We all need a motorcycle that works for us and feels right first ride I ride many BMW RS motorcycles now still own 3
I have changed my mind its a new style of front end and what with ride ht adjust, I like it better the more I see it; but I think choice of colour schemes could be better,
No quickshift on the PA. Really a mistake. Not enough wind protection and too small for people bigger than 1,80mtr. PA display is great. Less plastic fantastic than the BMW. I cancelled the PA order and bought the GS Adventure. No regrets. The PA’s delivery is delayed and still not available. Mine was set for end march this year, so sold the Vrod. But still no PA in the Netherlands.... I love the BMW
For sure PA was already available 1 month ago in the Netherlands. Quickshifter no dealbreaker for me, and will surely come aftermarket.
No comparison the BMW is in an entirely different league, Harley Davidson needs to stick to marketing their road road couches. What an embarrassing attempt. 🤪
My 18 year old BMW just finally had its first mechanical issue (ABS module) ever. Once HD has me convinced they have similar reliability, I might consider one. My other concern is getting any type of service in the lair of the Village People; I bet shops will extend preferential treatment to their bread and butter cruiser clientele, and I avoid that crowd like they’re radioactive.
Every dealer I've been to has already sold their initial allotment of PanAm's and they are STOKED to welcome new clientele. We'll see. H-D dealers outnumber other dealers by a large margin. My town is 80k in size and we have a really nice dealership and there are 3 more dealers withing 80 miles of me...and I live in a rural area of the country.
HD are a reliability nightmare, it's become more of a lifestyle company. The amount of plastic and poor build quality on Harleys is a joke.
Bmw will continue to not only own the adventure bike category,but will never stop making them.i can't say the same about harley the boat anchor davidson
How does harley believe they can break into the market with an unproven machine, at BMW prices? Let's see in a couple years how it stacks up to the BMW!
I just hate to clean and lube the chain after a rainy day. I don t think in terms in feeling and user expérience those 2 are comparable.
Nothing can compare to a Harley
Miss with the best die like the rest
Dude!!!! YOU DID NOT TEST THEM! WTF are you comparing, by reading specs?
How are they even on paper when the GS so clearly leads in almost every way, as you said throughout the video. It's a nice first year attempt by Harley, but no where near enough to take on the big dog!!!! And no, I don't own one.....yet!
both are good looking bikes,
my only concern, will H-D bike roast my leg ......
Ridden both and yes, the PA roasted my leg. That's in the UK where it's never very hot.
If you break a BMW shaft drive your either very good and needs to get a more "off road" focused machine, or your a idiot and should rather not ride a bike.
Pan America makes more sense 🔥
This was a pretty crummy inaccurate review that failed to mention a lot of features and many should get their information from reviewers who actually get the bikes in their hands instead of those using HD’s and BMW video promotions.
Las gs son caballos d batallas hay muchos videos de motoviajeros en gs dan vuelta al mundo.
En arg los motos de turismo son ktm yamaha honda benelli bmw entre otras marcas nacionales
Both tecno shit boxes that will struggle with serious dirt work and cost a fortune to own and run One fall on these things and your stranded and broke from repair costs.
The adjustable ride height kibuk on the Harley is it really all that useful and other Adventure bikes we do the same thing people seem to forget that the 710 are Yamaha is leading the clash in sales 4 less than half the price of any of the overblown adventure bikes Airhead BMW we're going around the world back in the 50s and 60s when you didn't have cell phones at satellite tracking and high-tech anyting and if you met people from other countries going around the world on their motorcycles they too were probably on BMW's street bikes of course the British Empire stretched around the world and so did their motorcycles and in the old days and still today and a lot of places you can't get a high-tech bike service but if you have a old British bike they all use the same electric same points same carburetor same tires same Wheels so if you needed anything you could probably get towed to a little shop and it all Bs a manual that I have I looked up my mother's native country and sure enough in Malta there is a BS a dealership no address just next to Christ Church you see the church steeple you know where the bike shop is and the English bike manufacturers at Shops all over the world when you're going off Road Simplicity lightweight and reliability are more important than sheer horsepower that you cannot use in the woods
For the similar price I'll take the one with shaft drive