I have been a general contractor for over 32 years. Torx and sq drive both work great. My favorite is sq drive because 90% of the time the number 2 driver is all you need. With torx you have T30, T25, T20, T15 & T10. I literally have 22 different driver tips in my truck to deal with different faster styles.
I live in Canada so Robertson is a no brainer. Cheap, available everywhere here, works perfectly, and can't get over the fact that the screws just stick to the bit, allowing you to drive screws in awkward places with only one hand. I don't mind torx though, I like them too. They're just on the expensive side and it seems there are way too much different sizes available, requiring a whole set of bits and screwdrivers, whereas a #2 Robertson is the only thing you need the vast majority of the time, with occasional #1's.
The worry perhaps isn't the variety of bit sizes, because they are supposed to sit quietly in their boxes, but that you've always misplaced the one you need just now - and it's always the one you need that is gone. It's sad we don't have the Robs here, No 2 is quite universal they say - a huuuge pro.
I don’t dislike this guy, but he’s one of the most long-winded tool guys on TH-cam. I’ve seen him give 3 minutes of info in a 25+ minute video multiple times.
It's because TH-cam won't pay out unless your video is over 10 mins. If it's shorter they can't monetize it with ads. The guy has nothing to say but spreads it over 10 mins to get paid.
Coming from the automotive world Torx is hands down the best. I’ve been using the Torx wood fasteners for all my wood working projects and never had half the problems that I had with Phillips.
Ever consider using the torque limiting clutch on your drill? That eliminates the over tightening issue, and then use a torx to avoid crappy Phillips fasteners
That's what I do. I guessimate on the lower torque side and slowly increase if needed. Another big thing is to use the lower speed "driver" mode on your drill instead of the higher speed "drill" mode.
I agree 100%, and I use the same technique, and torx screws. But I think maybe Phillips heads were designed that way before slip clutches were on drivers. If all that was used was crappy straight slotted screws, the slip clutch wasn't needed since the driver would cam out no matter what. I despise slotted screws and I don't understand why they are still made. Serious question- is there a valid reason?
@@papageo52 things I can think of: easy of production (saving money=more profit ) and the ability to turn them with a Swiss army knife or a small coin or whatever. That being said, they are hateful! Terrible! Problem is that in electronics and such they cannot be easily replaced by torx. Posidrive in wooden constructions on the other hand are very easy to replace when they (finally) get out.
Ah, come on. Don't bother me with your modern millennial high-tech stuff. I am screwing in my screws since 1901 with a flat head. Just learn the skill. These young generations - they are always just being lazy, lazy and lazy.
I find I can reload Roberson screws way faster then Torx. Also, I find they grip the bit better. I appreciate the simplicity of the design. Torx shines when it comes to longer screws such as timber lock type fasteners. To sum it up. Robertson for everyday production work and Torx for high torque applications. There is only one trade where Philips screws are relevant and it’s Drywall. They take drywall mud better then and other screw type.
No wonder why pretty much all construction workers here in Canada use Robertson. No need to hold the screw, it just stick by itself on the bit, allowing you to drive it with one hand in awkward places
I also like star drive best... IN GENERAL... I like to buy nice screws that I know I can reuse later. BUT! I don't build houses, i make temporary work benches, tables, shelves, carts, they're made from cheap lumber and need to stay tightly together when in use but also need to be able to be disassembled. This video could have prevented me from wasting $30 of 4×4 lumber (2014 prices, probably $3000 now) and a significant time of measuring and cutting when i failed to put a pilot hole deep enough and broke a screw off between two pieces.
As a tech guy, I can't disagree more. Torx T5-T10 srrip far too easily. Additionally the driver bits strip out far too easily. Flat head all the way for me.
I've noticed this with tech screws, i think they use them for aesthetic reasons and such, but then it's almost like the screws are made of lead they're so easy to ruin.
@@shivermeshoes small torex and Philips bits too. I've rounded so many heads trying to get screws secured. Flat heads may take some extra work to center and prevent cam out, but at least there's enough metal that I won't strip the slot or break the bit.
As a Seahawk powertrain technician and jet engine mechanic, I can say your reference to deliberate camout to prevent damage to aircraft rings true. It was covered in basic jet A school. I was completely surprised to see that was the tip that saves time and money, probably because I have known it for 30 years.
As a Seahawk Airframes tech, I hated trying to remove phillips screws from the old aluminum tipcaps. Spent a lot of time drilling those out, much easier with the new composite tipcaps and panhead screws.
Boeing specified years ago the superior Tri-Wing for aircraft panels. I can't tell you how many times I've had to use a impact driver to remove stuck screws. Sometimes that didn't work either and resorted to drilling off the head.
Cam-out as a safe method of preventing over tightening is nonsense. The damage to the part surface due to cam-out and tool slip is too easily done. European Pozidrive heads perform much better if you insist that a self centering design is required
Torx, Hex, and square screws are the best and the only thing I want to use. Flat heads should only be used in combination heads like on breakers to get extra torque. but torx is my favorite.
I've started hating allen bolts (hex). The ones on my bike aren't deep enough, so I have stripped a couple out.. I'm going to have to drill them out (dont dare take a dremel that close to my fairings to slot and back them out) and replace them...
I routinely take out old corroded flat heads on boilers from the turn of last century. God I flip my shit every time.. I usually end up cutting it with the sawzall. Or my favorite, bashing it with the lump hammer.
Dang... didn't know that it's supposed to cam out. I'll admit to splitting boards and over driving screws past the other side of materials at times using Robertson and torx screws. This just forced me to learn how to predrill, countersink and use the correct settings on my tools, as well as refining my technique for all of the above. Rarely use Phillips other that drywall these days.
@@Mtaalas Henry Ford did use the fact that they can out in his car building lines. You drive them till they can out and you're good to go. But whether or not John Thompson designed them to cam out, I don't know
It’s a feature designed by companies that make Phillips #2 reduced for drywall screws. The smaller reduced size makes perfect cam outs with any damage to the screw head or bit
Phillips cam-out is actually quite useful on assembly lines where they have everything calibrated. It'll just stop driving once it's in, no extra steps needed.
I am a drywall contractor, and when I set up stairwells with plank systems screwed to the wall with 2-4s or 2-6s and I am considering my life and well-being to depend on that plank system, I pre-drill a hole for the screw and always, always always use torx screws, that Way I can feel it tightening up or not and this know for a surety if I hit a stud which is critical and I always use Overkill and I have found I can use the same screws over and over
Been around tools a long time, but never considered “intentional cam-out”. Excellent safety feature because I have had to enlarge pilot holes because of it. Top notch vid my friend. Actually proof that there IS useful info on TH-cam.
I prefer Torx screws, but unfortunately they are at least 4-5x more expensive than a Robinson screw here in Canada. So I usually end up going with Robinson. I'd won't touch a Philips screw unless it's for very low torque applications like drywall. Great video!
After remodeling 2 aparmtents, I've worked with all 3 types. I'd rate them: 1: Torx (Never had any issues with cam out, and bit always feels very secure). 2: Robertson (although the bit looses the fastener much more often than with torx, it's still better than Phillips. 3: Phillips. The worst, just a lot of cam out and there is too much of a variation when choosing the right bit.
That philips "feature" was probably made before drills had clutches. I'm guessing they cam out at a specific torque and the chances of that being the right torque for you are probably pretty low. Torx is superior in every way
One of the reasons I like torx the most, is that it's shaped like an optimal gear, so nearly the entire perimeter of the "tooth" is in contact with the opposing tooth. This also means that you can use the next size of torx bit down if you're in a pinch, even if it's a lot harder on the bit/screw. Robertson's, on the other hand, have no curvature to them, so only the point of the square makes contact with the inside of the screw, which can lead to them wearing out quicker than other screws. But it's pretty much a non issue, and Robertson's are infinitely better than Phillips (and I don't have my life when I see a house filled with them like I do with Phillips), and I believe that torx are quite a bit better than Robertson's
@@johnoberle9750 I bought my first one from Cooper tools in my home town so i had bits to use in my then brand new on the market Makita 7.2 volt cordless drill. mid to late '80's. . i've never been without one since.
I have worked my entire professional career (1977 - 2019) in high end consumer, industrial, military and aerospace design engineering, hands down my favorite screw recess is the allen (hex) socket. I've had allen wrenches break, but I have never had a cam-out with one. As far as security screws, my pick is the center post tork recess. I am somewhat embarrassed to admit that I have shoved a Phillips driver clean thru my hand when it cammed out on me. It might not have happened if the head could have broken off from the screw. For what it is worth, I did the same thing with a Robertson. Ouch.
Where I used to work, We would always use a allen hex head screws. They never cam-out. I've even put a cheater bar on a allen bolt. The best bolt you can use is a allen head bolt.
You must be really old Stephen, haha. Yeah me too since about 1978 till now, geez that sounds so long. I used to change CV joints with the allen sockets and they would cam out when filled with old grease and used over and over. We started changing them out with torx and that worked better, although sometimes harder to clean. I have noticed many European car manufacturers wen to torx on many of their parts as well.
The problem is that a lot of people, especially in framing/carpentry use impact drivers which don't have clutches. I prefer phillips for framing just for that purpose. Use torx for everything else.
@@inibrius5380 Great. Those impact drivers are only recent. How about the last 100 years where they wasnt common? Even then I think they have impacts now that have digital clutches, and impacts are a lot easier to control.
@@inibrius5380 most professional grade impacts nowadays have different settings to stop you from driving the fastener with too much torque, even if you got a older one idd rather get a few clicks from my impact than fight with phillips or have a completely cammed out screw that im gonna have to replace if it needs to be removed. Dont most framers use nail guns anyway?
I can appreciate the point you're making about a possible reason cam out "can be " beneficial but I usually just adjust the clutch ( if I have one ). Maybe the original thought concept was for tools that didn't have an adjustable clutch? I also just thought the Phillips Head design was at first meant as a improvement over the Slot Head & nothing more.
I thought I saw once the original patent application describe the Phillips head being impossible to cam out. Cam out can be violent and possibly damaging and should be avoided when working on aircraft. However, I agree with this video. Using cam out as a warning sign of something being off is a good tip.
I would argue that each of them has their own unique application and should be thought about being used in those specific situations to maximize their benefit.
100%. Philips were intended for soft metals (aluminum and brass), where cam out can protect against stripping threads. Easier to replace a fastener than the threaded pieces being fastened. Sometimes you don't have the option of tapping to a larger size, and that would take longer than replacing the fastener, anyway.
Torx and Robertson are my favorite followed by hex. Phillips are as much a pain as the straight slot. Cam-out and stripping are way too common for both.
I've taken alot of things apart you are correct quite often the torks and fill-up screws were snapped off in the work,none of the flat head screws were probably done by hand .
Unfortunately, his yelling is what turned me off. I enjoy the channel. I do occasionally watch a video now and then. The constant yelling is a MAJOR turn off. Thank you Vince for everything you do. Please take no offense. It's just me.
Introduced to square drive trim head screws in 1998 installing window shutters and molding jamb assemblies. I prefer them strongly in any application. Really glad receptacle terminal screws have the square drive option! Hey, you forgot the pozidrive!
I have been woodworking for quite a few years and yes I have went thru a lot of screw types, and when I found the torx that was the end of using any others.
Just adjust the torque setting on the tool to avoid any cam out. Mission critical work settings will have the tools that have this. Plus most driver tools have this feature now anyway.
The guy that built the deck on my house used Robertsons and when I had to replace decking on it they were stripping out left and right. I have several drills and all have a clutch but these things were so soft. I ended up pulling them all out and replacing them with Torx and not one problem with cam out. I have never used my vice grip so much as I had to manually unscrew the Robertsons when they stripped. I won't use a single sloted fastener with a drill driver. Ever. Good video.
They all strip after 3 years. Hopefully the deck is built to not need repairs too soon. Prices will make people change methods of fasteners and installs like blind nailing.
@@christopherleemcn3776 We got it all back together finally and ended up using Camo system with their screws and regular deck boards pertained on both sides.
Canadian here, and I own an original Robertson screwdriver. I’ve been using Robertson screws for decades. Back in the 1960’s, most screws were slotted. As Robertson screws became widely available at hardware stores, they largely replaced slot screws (thank God!). Phillips screws were mostly used in electronics and imported goods and never gained much of a foothold over Robertson. Recently, I was building a bunkhouse and ended up buying some Torx construction screws. I found they were more subject to cam out and wear than my Robertson construction screws, which I was able to used over and over again without much problem. The Torx screws also didn’t stay on the driver as well. So, for me, it’s Robertson all the way!
I love star drive/Torx screws! Most are designed to self-drive into wood these days, reducing the need for a pilot hole. I've never once split a board with them.
I use what works best for my project and dont bitch about having to change heads. T15 and t20 for cabinet screws. T25 for general construction. Square drive on pocket holes. Philips on drywall. Hex heads on lag bolts and self tappers (torx if i get to use headloks). And flathead on electrical if i have to. Gotta be flexible to get things done.
First came across Robertson when working in the recreational vehicle field as most all fasteners used in them are Robertson. They stay on the bit, drive well and are easy to get out when rust or have had debris crammed in. I prefer them over torx because of the latter. I remove more torx when doing decking on trailers and you have to spend way too long to clean the crap out of all the little sides and then it strips or breaks. With a Robertson it usually in only takes air or a small flathead screwdriver to remove debris, they hardly ever strip however they will also break. Still like driving torx as well and sometimes better than Robertson depending on the job. Phillips can take a hike, any tradesman worth his salt will be able to drive whatever fasteners he has properly.
Were you working on recreational vehicles made by Bombardier? Sea-Doo, Ski-Doo, Can-Am etc? The Robertson head is common in Canada since it was invented here. So I'm wondering if Bombardier used them in their products.
@@Free-g8r Pretty much all brands use robertson fasteners. Airstream uses less than others only because they are riveted together. Even companies who generally build enclosed box style trailers use them. I suppose it may have to do with the vast majority of them being built in the Midwest mostly starting with carpenters.
Funny but just today I replaced a bunch of Philips screws with the eqivilent Robertson because the Philips make the simple task of fastening a magnetic catch to a cupboard a time-consuming, painful experience. I'm okay with Torx as well but Robertson screws and drivers are more common here. Absolutely love the fact that the screw stays on the bit long enough to get it in the screw-hole and that driving the screw to completion is easy without over-driving or cam out. It's no contest. BTW, how often do you encounter slotted screws these days? lol
I'm a big fan of the sotted screw, when you charge by the hour, for the screwdriver slips and slides it also damages the ends as one applies force, gotta love it. A building center tried to give me w boxes of slotted approval 5k quantity in each box.
Totally agree, slotted screws are where it's at, ya know...if you're a man. Real men understand that the very first design is always the best design, before stupid improvements ruins it. I try to use all the same stuff my grandad used like slotted screws & sheep gut condoms. Did stuff fall apart all the time? Sure it did, due to not being able to drive home the slotted screws, which were all very short with super soft heads, but he always had plenty of siblings & children to lend a helping hand to put it all back together again, due to the sheep gut condoms. The good ol' days....thems was better times!!
I am a recent convert to Robertson. The advantage of the Phillips is it cams out and stops overdriving in soft timber. My philosophy now is that screws from about 35mm below, use Phillips. Above that size use the Robertson to take advantage of the higher drive torque without the annoying camming out. I think there is room for both fasteners.
Using long small diameter wood screws (finish screws - stainless versions) in both Robertson and Torx drive I have to say that Torx wins. I've never had the Torx version cam out but the Roberston has often cammed out and ruined the square in the head causing great difficulty in removing partially driven screws as well as later removal of fully driven screws to replace components.
Robertson generally comes in 3 sizes Green handle is smallest, Red is medium and most used and Black which is larger than medium. If you camed out of a Robertson, chances are good the screw- head was not clean or you had too small of a screwdriver. Rust and schmoo has got to be picked out with a small nail usually is enough and then the proper screwdriver is hammered into the opening. It won't cam out.
@@bunzeebear2973 That's a lot of work to simply drive a screw. I've never had to hammer a torx bit into a screw and the only times I've had to do that with Phillips is when they're full of paint.
I run Phillips as a diyer because that's what I started with and I have multiple 5 pound boxes of Phillips head screws. Now my dad spent years as a contractor and went from Phillips to square and finally torx. Once a year I spend a week working around his house doing as many things as I can for my 79 year old parents. First thing I do is fill a pocket with driver bits because I will need them all, I spend more time switching bits then I do anything else. Last summer I replaced a PVC outdoor water line and needed phillips, square 2 and 3, and 2 sizes of torx to remove the 5 clamps holding the pipe to a wood wall. When I put the new line up I used Phillips from my stash.
They work good for outlets because people paint over them all the time and they are easy to scrape out. These days they are usually combined with Phillips. They also look more appealing on an outlet cover because it's harder to damage them, when people see them the know they have to use a screw driver which means you're less likely to damage the paint on the screw
Funny how impact drivers are loved for driving in screws into wood, especially philips screws due to the tools axial impacts, which actually have the effect of undoing the cam-out feature of philips screws by axial impacts. in other words: "use impact driver to reduce cam out of the fastener technology which was specifically designed to cam out under high torque".
Very interesting history and I appreciate the information. I also was surprised by the conclusion about the benefits of camout to prevent damage to material and even having fastener breakoff in your work material. I appreciate the work you put into assembling the video and making it interesting.
Nothing like a torx fastener. Having said that, Phillips DEFINITELY has a wider range of options, period. Slotted still has it's place for switch plate covers and receptacle covers. Oh, and as pry bars and chisels. Phillips also still dominates the jobsites with drywall and metal stud fasteners. Thank you for the topic, Vince. Peace and God bless! 😁👍✌
I like that the Robertson screws are very snug in their design. A few years ago however, I had to pull out a bunch of Roberston screws from an old childrens' play set that were rusted and it was a pain in the butt. When they get rusted the fit gets really tight and it takes time to get the driver bit into and out of the Roberson socket. I live in VA and I think that most Americans are gravitating towards the Torx hexagonal screw type. It is a great balance of grip (low cam out) and easy-in-easy-out. Phillips screws are going out of style thank god.
*Carpenters:* "Oh good, my Philips head stopped me from splitting this board." *Electricians:* "Impact go BRBRBRBRBRBRBRB" Great video Vince, honestly never thought about this but it makes a lot of sense!
Well duh, as the arbiter of electricity... My tools need to have as much power as I do.... UNLIMITED POWWAHHHH!!!!!!!! MUAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!
This would have made me spit my coffee legit. "Impact go brbrbrbrbrrbrbbrrbrb" LOL cmon man its too true. I think it's true for every other trade other than carpenters.
I kinda like the star bit i rarely need to do any kind of home improvement and have some fine motor issues so the fact that the bit stays in and i dont need to put a lot of force on the drill is a huge plus for me
I really enjoyed the history lesson along with this, and basically it all boils down to there is no one right fastener, use the one that best fits the job and the tool
@@risto9991 well, its good to have opinions, though I think Vince made a good point when mentioning assembly of aircraft on the soft aluminum. better to cam out the screw than to mess up the frame. Fanboy a screw, that is a new one.
Good job with the screws. Even better conclusions. I had not put your conclusions into our manufacturing thought process, only the pressure vs setting of the screw. Your video gave me a good idea of what to make some issues better. Thank you. Good work.
Great info that makes sense👍 I use torx and phillips all day long in my profession of building wooden gazebos and playsets and I also occassionally use the square drive robertson screw as well. I use phillips and robertson screws of varying lengths up to 6" and T40, T30, and T25 torx head lags of varying lengths up to 8" x 5/16 diameter. I will say that the torx head is the king of applicable torque which isnt surprising given its name, but I imagine the phillips screw will hang around for a long time as its the cheapest to make and buy and therefore reduces the cost of a build project. Since the tech of driving tools has come such a long way the advantage of safety camout for phillips is no longer necessary with clutched or torque adjustable driving drills and impacts imo. The last saving grace for phillips is theyre cheaper then robertson or torx. I suppose if cost wasnt a consideration then Id chose torx every time.
I like the school of thoughts here. -Torx for assembly lines. (makes sense, much less tiring to play with torx when you know what you're doing) -Square (f off patterson, its sq2 now, perfect for DIY when you need lots of torque EX: deck screws) -Phillips for everything else like servicing, low torque applications where cam out is desired instead of over-torquing and damaging threads, heads or surfaces. Im glad I watched this, I came pretty much to this conclusions but mine was sq2 for less cam out, pretty much the same. Torx is just too fancy for the DIY i am. If the prices where the same Id probably go torx instead of everything else. After breaking bolts on car wheels I realised I had enough strength to chill the f out lol P.s: That being said, if any experts reading, are phillips screws also made cheaper since it's engineered for low torque? I had several philips screws of all kinds (drywall, wood) snap on me while I was torquing it, always in the same spot too right after the head about 0-5mm down. My guess is that since they were designed for low torque the manufacturers put less material on these to reduce costs. I rarely had a square screw snap like that but its do-able for sure if you don't pre-drill where needed.
For sure homie I smashed the like! I tell this to the crew but not in such a engineering way but from experience, I tell them basically what works better for you in the application at hand. I love all options and trying out new or old methods and now with the newer cordless power tools we have more alternatives, God bless you and your channel keep up the great work straight spitting knowledge, peace out stay up!
yep, taking apart the entertainment center that were left in the new home we bought… all square and 30% of them has cam outs due to stripping. Torx forever.
I find torx stips out more in my experience and it usually fubars bot tool and fastener, most of the torx i deal with though are t10 and smaller though
If I'm worried about over torquing my screw, I will set the torque setting on my driver tool to avoid that. The advantages of Torx or Roberts drive is so great that I can exercise a bit of care to not over torque the screw.
Recently repaired a fence with square bits (Robertson's) was really grateful for the self hold and reduced cam out. There was some wobble on some screws but honestly was a pleasure, I really enjoy torx and like the fact that torx bits can double as a hex for Imperial sizes when you only have metric hex bits. And I really wish drill screws for steel would change from Phillips to either torx of square. But considering that the head often breaks off with high force probably best to keep it as is. I hate seeing flat head screws, but you can put more force into electric terminals that Phillips. The 1 type I really hate is pozi. In my opinion the worst screw head.
As I've gone on I've grown more to hate Phillips and to like flatheads. No stripping is nice but it's just me. Also helps when you don't have a screwdriver and just a coin
The Robertson screw was invented in Canada over a decade before Phillips. The tendency of Phillips screws to cam out was considered an advantage in manufacturing to prevent overdriving.
I definitely use all three in my handyman and electrical service work. I love the squares with the electrical panel covers and the circuit breakers. I carry a mix of all purpose Phillips head screws and sheet metal screws for variety of light duty fastening. And I tend to use the star heads or torx for heavy duty fastening, Especially all types of lumber work.
Im so glad you made this video! I feel like so few people understand this about philips screws. Also there is no "best fastener" there is only the best fastener for a specific job.
I've used all of these types of heads and I've never had issues with the hex head screws. I've had people round out the square heads and the philips is just crap altogether.
The only true way to round a square head is if the fastener was crap to begin with. I have had way more Robertsons break than strip Of course you can find crappy fasteners with any head..
Thanks for making a video on this Vince... As I have explained this in detail quite a few times some of which have been in the comment section of your videos and I don't always explain things very well so a video was needed and you are always the right person for that!
This may have been more helpful in the past, but isnt this a specific feature built into drill drivers with 'screw' functions? You switch to the screw function, set your torque lower or higher depending on the fastener material and the material you want to fasten to and voilà, problem solved while still using a superior drive head (square or star)!
@@PatTheRiot I don't think he was talking about impacts though, just the adjustable clutch on virtually every cordless drill irrespective of price. That's why they're called drill/drivers. Amusing when you forget to switch back to drill mode too.
One of the best advantage, even over the incredible keeping screw force of Robertson system is the need of only 3 screwdrivers for most if not all use , green, red and black. Most of the time I discard Torks, Phillis and slotted used screw.
For me: Flat Slot - the worst....nothing but hatred for that Philips - fine for screws that are 2 inches or less in length Anything 2.5+ in length I prefer Torx....Robertson is OK too
I learned something today. Philips were designed to cam out when the torque required to turn the screw reached a certain point. That would explain why the only Philips heads you see on a job site (home construction) are on drywall screws. Despite the special drivers used by installers this design feature provides a back up to not over driving the screw too deep… which is messy in drywall. Up here in Canada, where the Robertson was invented, we are pretty happy with them. Have used torx on a couple of decks though and really liked them.
The Philips also cams out once the screw is seated, so it is not over-torqued by the automatic tool inserting it. This is essential for installing many things, like drywall. Drywall screws and drywall guns work together to use the cam out to limit not only the depth, but also the torque helps to make the bit ready to slip. Torx and square have advantages and disadvantages. Square will take more torque before stripping. Torx is easier to align a tool onto a partly inserted fastener, and does not require a deep head. Thus, construction screws for fastening wood are better in square, where they need to drive until sunk without pilot holes, and Torx is better on cars and small metal assemblies where that alignment is a help, the screw head is shallow, and torque is normally controlled by the insertion tool.
What always blows my mind is that the screws that hold a electrical socket trim plate in are the only screws who's screwdriver bit will kill u if u slip.
Robertson is my preference. If you’ve ever tried to extract a corroded torx fastener or one caked with paint you know how impossible it is. A square drive is easy to clean out the hole with a pick, or a small flathead or by just jamming the Robertson bit into the head.
Hmm... I have to agree with this reasoning. This honestly make a lot of sense. Working with metals and Taps and dies you never really know when a tap wears out of spec. If the screw breaks not a big deal. But if the the part the screw is fastened to is ruined do to it snapping in the part, You now have to rework the part off the assembly line. if that is even possible considering how large different trade equipment gets. There is a reason automated machines and factory station hand tools these days have over torque sensors and limits. Phillips screws were designed for assembly line workers with old power tools. Wow, the first torque wrench was invented in 1931 and the Phillips screw was invented 1932. That's a quick leap in logic right there. Some days I wish people would just explain why they believe in stuff. Thank you VCG for explaining this better and opening my mind to the real reason. You get a like sir!!!!!!
Vince did give some history about the three screw head types but there was nothing about what the title claims. I feel like most of the videos I watch on this channel are like that.
There is also a variation of the Pphilips with a shallower angle used traditionally on drywall skrews. It is about 15 degrees shallower that forces philips drivers out. Here in Canada Home hardware sells a good driver. If I remember they were called power drive until Philips used that trade name. Because of the variations available with Philips type screws that few people are aware of I now try to use Robertson as it is simple to use and even in an emergency resharpen! Try it just once and you will be amazed as to how fast you will be working!
I have been a general contractor for over 32 years. Torx and sq drive both work great. My favorite is sq drive because 90% of the time the number 2 driver is all you need. With torx you have T30, T25, T20, T15 & T10. I literally have 22 different driver tips in my truck to deal with different faster styles.
also robertson doesnt strip very often comparably
The small T10 T9 usually get over torqued and stripped. I don’t see the R2 or R1 getting stripped very often
Don't forget T27!
Thanks friend! 👍🙏
@@husher5142 stripping out is user error. Too litte pressure applied from the back of the screw.
I live in Canada so Robertson is a no brainer. Cheap, available everywhere here, works perfectly, and can't get over the fact that the screws just stick to the bit, allowing you to drive screws in awkward places with only one hand. I don't mind torx though, I like them too. They're just on the expensive side and it seems there are way too much different sizes available, requiring a whole set of bits and screwdrivers, whereas a #2 Robertson is the only thing you need the vast majority of the time, with occasional #1's.
The worry perhaps isn't the variety of bit sizes, because they are supposed to sit quietly in their boxes, but that you've always misplaced the one you need just now - and it's always the one you need that is gone. It's sad we don't have the Robs here, No 2 is quite universal they say - a huuuge pro.
I don’t dislike this guy, but he’s one of the most long-winded tool guys on TH-cam. I’ve seen him give 3 minutes of info in a 25+ minute video multiple times.
Lmao hahahah so damn true!!!!
yeah the word salad makes me lose interest right away
I think vince used to do infomercials?? It takes real talent to fill 2 hours of show at 3am with such a simple sale item....🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪
It's because TH-cam won't pay out unless your video is over 10 mins. If it's shorter they can't monetize it with ads. The guy has nothing to say but spreads it over 10 mins to get paid.
@@bloopbleepnothinghere ohhhhh that changes everything then! Thanx for the info
Coming from the automotive world Torx is hands down the best. I’ve been using the Torx wood fasteners for all my wood working projects and never had half the problems that I had with Phillips.
Best thing about torx is if you accidentally slip the socket you can just bash the bolt head with a soft hammer and you get most of the shape back
Torx can handle more torque but is more sensitive to corrosion than Robertson. Especially in automotive work I hate coming across rusty torx screws.
Worst is pozi and flathead in my experience
I have jsut recently came to this insight as well. Hands down the best.
Come on.. it's just a Philips with one more slot! Come over to the Robertson side! :)
Gotta hate those long flathead screws in ceiling light fixtures. 😤
Or flat tips on hard to reach old cabinetry
Luckily they are mostly in older fixtures the new are all Philips, at least in my experience
@@israelschnitzler8477 just a little bit ago, I took out flat tip screws out of hung up old cabinetry. It was a pain to take them out.
Agreed. Why they still do this I will never know.
The pain in the ass is it’s hard to use power tools on them since they don’t ever want to stay centered.
Ever consider using the torque limiting clutch on your drill? That eliminates the over tightening issue, and then use a torx to avoid crappy Phillips fasteners
That's what I do. I guessimate on the lower torque side and slowly increase if needed. Another big thing is to use the lower speed "driver" mode on your drill instead of the higher speed "drill" mode.
I agree 100%, and I use the same technique, and torx screws. But I think maybe Phillips heads were designed that way before slip clutches were on drivers. If all that was used was crappy straight slotted screws, the slip clutch wasn't needed since the driver would cam out no matter what. I despise slotted screws and I don't understand why they are still made. Serious question- is there a valid reason?
@@papageo52 things I can think of: easy of production (saving money=more profit ) and the ability to turn them with a Swiss army knife or a small coin or whatever. That being said, they are hateful! Terrible! Problem is that in electronics and such they cannot be easily replaced by torx. Posidrive in wooden constructions on the other hand are very easy to replace when they (finally) get out.
Yeah, that deliberate cam-out was a useful feature before clutches were common, but it's just horrendous now.
Ah, come on. Don't bother me with your modern millennial high-tech stuff. I am screwing in my screws since 1901 with a flat head. Just learn the skill. These young generations - they are always just being lazy, lazy and lazy.
My girlfriend was handing me tools while I was working under her car. I asked for a screwdriver and she said "do you need a plus or a minus?" 🤣
That’s pretty funny
I find I can reload Roberson screws way faster then Torx. Also, I find they grip the bit better. I appreciate the simplicity of the design.
Torx shines when it comes to longer screws such as timber lock type fasteners.
To sum it up. Robertson for everyday production work and Torx for high torque applications.
There is only one trade where Philips screws are relevant and it’s Drywall. They take drywall mud better then and other screw type.
No wonder why pretty much all construction workers here in Canada use Robertson. No need to hold the screw, it just stick by itself on the bit, allowing you to drive it with one hand in awkward places
Torx is best. I won't last until he gets to the point lol
I also like star drive best... IN GENERAL... I like to buy nice screws that I know I can reuse later. BUT! I don't build houses, i make temporary work benches, tables, shelves, carts, they're made from cheap lumber and need to stay tightly together when in use but also need to be able to be disassembled. This video could have prevented me from wasting $30 of 4×4 lumber (2014 prices, probably $3000 now) and a significant time of measuring and cutting when i failed to put a pilot hole deep enough and broke a screw off between two pieces.
Agreed. T25 supremacy. Square drive is ass and so is phillips or any other 4 pointed fastener
As a tech guy, I can't disagree more. Torx T5-T10 srrip far too easily. Additionally the driver bits strip out far too easily. Flat head all the way for me.
I've noticed this with tech screws, i think they use them for aesthetic reasons and such, but then it's almost like the screws are made of lead they're so easy to ruin.
@@shivermeshoes small torex and Philips bits too. I've rounded so many heads trying to get screws secured. Flat heads may take some extra work to center and prevent cam out, but at least there's enough metal that I won't strip the slot or break the bit.
found Torx and never looked back, specially the rough ones, they even grab concrete
Slot fasteners are hands down the worst, I will die on this hill
They’re ok for adjustments but other than that I hate them.
Agreed. Phillip's can majorly suck too
@@robludwigsen7831 too many different almost Phillips. Japanese hit, German positive.
I dont think anyone is going to argue that
You don’t need to die, nobody is going to fight you
As a Seahawk powertrain technician and jet engine mechanic, I can say your reference to deliberate camout to prevent damage to aircraft rings true. It was covered in basic jet A school. I was completely surprised to see that was the tip that saves time and money, probably because I have known it for 30 years.
As a Seahawk Airframes tech, I hated trying to remove phillips screws from the old aluminum tipcaps. Spent a lot of time drilling those out, much easier with the new composite tipcaps and panhead screws.
Boeing specified years ago the superior Tri-Wing for aircraft panels. I can't tell you how many times I've had to use a impact driver to remove stuck screws. Sometimes that didn't work either and resorted to drilling off the head.
Cam-out as a safe method of preventing over tightening is nonsense. The damage to the part surface due to cam-out and tool slip is too easily done. European Pozidrive heads perform much better if you insist that a self centering design is required
Torx, Hex, and square screws are the best and the only thing I want to use. Flat heads should only be used in combination heads like on breakers to get extra torque. but torx is my favorite.
Sorry I like my square drive breaker, neutral and ground buss terminals. They make me feel safe.
@@Sparkeycarp Yeah when i said flat heads on breakers as in the combination screws.
I could not agree more, i find flat head and Phillips screws to be annoying and refuse to buy them
I've started hating allen bolts (hex). The ones on my bike aren't deep enough, so I have stripped a couple out.. I'm going to have to drill them out (dont dare take a dremel that close to my fairings to slot and back them out) and replace them...
@@AlanDike i meant outer hex not allen screws. Allen screws are terrible when they're cheap.
He is absolute right!
Torx for torquing tighter and Philips For lighter and torque sensitive items. I worked on jets, I know
As long as it's not a flat head.
Except on electric trim plates 😂
Seriously! Why do they still make flat had screws for other than real light duty applications or for looks?
I routinely take out old corroded flat heads on boilers from the turn of last century. God I flip my shit every time.. I usually end up cutting it with the sawzall. Or my favorite, bashing it with the lump hammer.
The only right answer
been removing 4” flat head toggle bolts in a demo, about 15 per channel… its been a PITA
Dang... didn't know that it's supposed to cam out. I'll admit to splitting boards and over driving screws past the other side of materials at times using Robertson and torx screws. This just forced me to learn how to predrill, countersink and use the correct settings on my tools, as well as refining my technique for all of the above. Rarely use Phillips other that drywall these days.
It's not meant to cam out, this is an urban legend and there's no proof that it's a deliberate feature.
@@Mtaalas Henry Ford did use the fact that they can out in his car building lines. You drive them till they can out and you're good to go.
But whether or not John Thompson designed them to cam out, I don't know
It’s a feature designed by companies that make Phillips #2 reduced for drywall screws. The smaller reduced size makes perfect cam outs with any damage to the screw head or bit
Team Torx all the way. Phillips head is annoying but the worst is the flat slotted fasteners
Phillips cam-out is actually quite useful on assembly lines where they have everything calibrated. It'll just stop driving once it's in, no extra steps needed.
Which will never die...try unscrewing a torx with a dime.
Why, I have torx drivers, bits, wrenches.
I am a drywall contractor, and when I set up stairwells with plank systems screwed to the wall with 2-4s or 2-6s and I am considering my life and well-being to depend on that plank system, I pre-drill a hole for the screw and always, always always use torx screws, that Way I can feel it tightening up or not and this know for a surety if I hit a stud which is critical and I always use Overkill and I have found I can use the same screws over and over
I call Phillips screws "thumpers" for the sound they make when the bit slips.
Been around tools a long time, but never considered “intentional cam-out”. Excellent safety feature because I have had to enlarge pilot holes because of it. Top notch vid my friend. Actually proof that there IS useful info on TH-cam.
I prefer Torx screws, but unfortunately they are at least 4-5x more expensive than a Robinson screw here in Canada. So I usually end up going with Robinson. I'd won't touch a Philips screw unless it's for very low torque applications like drywall. Great video!
After remodeling 2 aparmtents, I've worked with all 3 types. I'd rate them: 1: Torx (Never had any issues with cam out, and bit always feels very secure). 2: Robertson (although the bit looses the fastener much more often than with torx, it's still better than Phillips. 3: Phillips. The worst, just a lot of cam out and there is too much of a variation when choosing the right bit.
Torx is my preferred head, although I've had more torx screws that were machined improperly and slow you down.
That philips "feature" was probably made before drills had clutches. I'm guessing they cam out at a specific torque and the chances of that being the right torque for you are probably pretty low. Torx is superior in every way
That's supposed to be the thing. Before your machines could control for torque the screw prevented it. It's useless today.
Strong words. I can think of ways that other heads are better.
I heard that was actually a myth and there is nothing in the patent stating anything that hinted at that.
Just a bullshit excuse for a flawed design.
@@gitarmac I'd love it if that was just a bs myth
But when using in a impact and price
Robertson/square when I'm in Ontario and star/torx when I'm in Pennsylvania.
Got the best picquic multi screwdriver made. In 🇨🇦. In Sault Ste Marie MI.
@@johnoberle9750 invented in British Columbia, Canada. great screwdriver.
One of the reasons I like torx the most, is that it's shaped like an optimal gear, so nearly the entire perimeter of the "tooth" is in contact with the opposing tooth. This also means that you can use the next size of torx bit down if you're in a pinch, even if it's a lot harder on the bit/screw.
Robertson's, on the other hand, have no curvature to them, so only the point of the square makes contact with the inside of the screw, which can lead to them wearing out quicker than other screws.
But it's pretty much a non issue, and Robertson's are infinitely better than Phillips (and I don't have my life when I see a house filled with them like I do with Phillips), and I believe that torx are quite a bit better than Robertson's
@@skxj been buying the great Picquik multi bit screwdrivers from Canada. Best multi bit screwdriver on the market. Quality bits.
@@johnoberle9750 I bought my first one from Cooper tools in my home town so i had bits to use in my then brand new on the market Makita 7.2 volt cordless drill. mid to late '80's. . i've never been without one since.
I have worked my entire professional career (1977 - 2019) in high end consumer, industrial, military and aerospace design engineering, hands down my favorite screw recess is the allen (hex) socket. I've had allen wrenches break, but I have never had a cam-out with one. As far as security screws, my pick is the center post tork recess.
I am somewhat embarrassed to admit that I have shoved a Phillips driver clean thru my hand when it cammed out on me. It might not have happened if the head could have broken off from the screw. For what it is worth, I did the same thing with a Robertson. Ouch.
Where I used to work, We would always use a allen hex head screws. They never cam-out. I've even put a cheater bar on a allen bolt. The best bolt you can use is a allen head bolt.
Feel welcome to the Stigmatti.......
Once working on a bike and tried to remove one it was so stuck it did cam-out.
You must be really old Stephen, haha. Yeah me too since about 1978 till now, geez that sounds so long. I used to change CV joints with the allen sockets and they would cam out when filled with old grease and used over and over. We started changing them out with torx and that worked better, although sometimes harder to clean. I have noticed many European car manufacturers wen to torx on many of their parts as well.
I will forever hate single slots....especially after yesterday when I sliced my finger with the bit. 🙂
Down with slotted
Because of this comment I’m calling slotted heads “widow makers” from now on.
That’s definitely happened to me before!
You never driven a Philips bit into your palm? I did. lol
@@danl.4743 I have too lol
I've built alot of decks & used all 3 types of screws , for me I love the torx !!!!! Thank you for your show !! You do a great job !!👍👍🍺🍺
That is because you have never tried Robertson.
I dont need a bit that cams out when my drill has a clutch that tells me if im applying too much force. It aint 1970 yall
This
The problem is that a lot of people, especially in framing/carpentry use impact drivers which don't have clutches. I prefer phillips for framing just for that purpose. Use torx for everything else.
This the way
@@inibrius5380 Great. Those impact drivers are only recent. How about the last 100 years where they wasnt common? Even then I think they have impacts now that have digital clutches, and impacts are a lot easier to control.
@@inibrius5380 most professional grade impacts nowadays have different settings to stop you from driving the fastener with too much torque, even if you got a older one idd rather get a few clicks from my impact than fight with phillips or have a completely cammed out screw that im gonna have to replace if it needs to be removed. Dont most framers use nail guns anyway?
I can appreciate the point you're making about a possible reason cam out "can be " beneficial but I usually just adjust the clutch ( if I have one ). Maybe the original thought concept was for tools that didn't have an adjustable clutch? I also just thought the Phillips Head design was at first meant as a improvement over the Slot Head & nothing more.
I thought I saw once the original patent application describe the Phillips head being impossible to cam out.
Cam out can be violent and possibly damaging and should be avoided when working on aircraft.
However, I agree with this video. Using cam out as a warning sign of something being off is a good tip.
I would argue that each of them has their own unique application and should be thought about being used in those specific situations to maximize their benefit.
100%. Philips were intended for soft metals (aluminum and brass), where cam out can protect against stripping threads. Easier to replace a fastener than the threaded pieces being fastened. Sometimes you don't have the option of tapping to a larger size, and that would take longer than replacing the fastener, anyway.
Absolutely right!
Except phillips ones. Seriously. Every cheapest of cheapest screwdriver has torque limiter.
Torx and Robertson are my favorite followed by hex. Phillips are as much a pain as the straight slot. Cam-out and stripping are way too common for both.
I've taken alot of things apart you are correct quite often the torks and fill-up screws were snapped off in the work,none of the flat head screws were probably done by hand .
I like how quiet and reserved he is. 😂😂
🤣🤣🤣
🤣🤣
Vinnie Mays here!
Unfortunately, his yelling is what turned me off. I enjoy the channel. I do occasionally watch a video now and then. The constant yelling is a MAJOR turn off. Thank you Vince for everything you do. Please take no offense. It's just me.
@@bobmullen1645 and me!!!
Introduced to square drive trim head screws in 1998 installing window shutters and molding jamb assemblies. I prefer them strongly in any application. Really glad receptacle terminal screws have the square drive option! Hey, you forgot the pozidrive!
After one full minute I just had to escape.
I have been woodworking for quite a few years and yes I have went thru a lot of screw types, and when I found the torx that was the end of using any others.
Just adjust the torque setting on the tool to avoid any cam out. Mission critical work settings will have the tools that have this. Plus most driver tools have this feature now anyway.
I kinda knew that but never about the safety mechanism to cam out but never put it to words as you have , good job sir.
It's wonderful when it strips as you're trying to get the fastener out. That's always fun.
So when your Philips screw cams out, and you stab a hole through your aluminum part when your driver hits it, did it really save anything?
The guy that built the deck on my house used Robertsons and when I had to replace decking on it they were stripping out left and right. I have several drills and all have a clutch but these things were so soft. I ended up pulling them all out and replacing them with Torx and not one problem with cam out. I have never used my vice grip so much as I had to manually unscrew the Robertsons when they stripped. I won't use a single sloted fastener with a drill driver. Ever. Good video.
They all strip after 3 years. Hopefully the deck is built to not need repairs too soon. Prices will make people change methods of fasteners and installs like blind nailing.
@@christopherleemcn3776 We got it all back together finally and ended up using Camo system with their screws and regular deck boards pertained on both sides.
Never had issues unless they were rusted out.
Canadian here, and I own an original Robertson screwdriver. I’ve been using Robertson screws for decades. Back in the 1960’s, most screws were slotted. As Robertson screws became widely available at hardware stores, they largely replaced slot screws (thank God!). Phillips screws were mostly used in electronics and imported goods and never gained much of a foothold over Robertson.
Recently, I was building a bunkhouse and ended up buying some Torx construction screws. I found they were more subject to cam out and wear than my Robertson construction screws, which I was able to used over and over again without much problem. The Torx screws also didn’t stay on the driver as well.
So, for me, it’s Robertson all the way!
I love star drive/Torx screws! Most are designed to self-drive into wood these days, reducing the need for a pilot hole. I've never once split a board with them.
Depends on how fresh/dry the wood is
I use what works best for my project and dont bitch about having to change heads. T15 and t20 for cabinet screws. T25 for general construction. Square drive on pocket holes. Philips on drywall. Hex heads on lag bolts and self tappers (torx if i get to use headloks). And flathead on electrical if i have to. Gotta be flexible to get things done.
First came across Robertson when working in the recreational vehicle field as most all fasteners used in them are Robertson.
They stay on the bit, drive well and are easy to get out when rust or have had debris crammed in. I prefer them over torx because of the latter. I remove more torx when doing decking on trailers and you have to spend way too long to clean the crap out of all the little sides and then it strips or breaks. With a Robertson it usually in only takes air or a small flathead screwdriver to remove debris, they hardly ever strip however they will also break.
Still like driving torx as well and sometimes better than Robertson depending on the job.
Phillips can take a hike, any tradesman worth his salt will be able to drive whatever fasteners he has properly.
Were you working on recreational vehicles made by Bombardier? Sea-Doo, Ski-Doo, Can-Am etc?
The Robertson head is common in Canada since it was invented here. So I'm wondering if Bombardier used them in their products.
@@Free-g8r Pretty much all brands use robertson fasteners. Airstream uses less than others only because they are riveted together. Even companies who generally build enclosed box style trailers use them. I suppose it may have to do with the vast majority of them being built in the Midwest mostly starting with carpenters.
Best "Ring That Bell" pitch I have ever seen. Absolutely loved it!
Funny but just today I replaced a bunch of Philips screws with the eqivilent Robertson because the Philips make the simple task of fastening a magnetic catch to a cupboard a time-consuming, painful experience. I'm okay with Torx as well but Robertson screws and drivers are more common here. Absolutely love the fact that the screw stays on the bit long enough to get it in the screw-hole and that driving the screw to completion is easy without over-driving or cam out. It's no contest. BTW, how often do you encounter slotted screws these days? lol
I'm a big fan of the sotted screw, when you charge by the hour, for the screwdriver slips and slides it also damages the ends as one applies force, gotta love it.
A building center tried to give me w boxes of slotted approval 5k quantity in each box.
Totally agree, slotted screws are where it's at, ya know...if you're a man. Real men understand that the very first design is always the best design, before stupid improvements ruins it. I try to use all the same stuff my grandad used like slotted screws & sheep gut condoms. Did stuff fall apart all the time? Sure it did, due to not being able to drive home the slotted screws, which were all very short with super soft heads, but he always had plenty of siblings & children to lend a helping hand to put it all back together again, due to the sheep gut condoms. The good ol' days....thems was better times!!
Torx all the way imo,thank u guys 👍
I am a recent convert to Robertson. The advantage of the Phillips is it cams out and stops overdriving in soft timber. My philosophy now is that screws from about 35mm below, use Phillips. Above that size use the Robertson to take advantage of the higher drive torque without the annoying camming out. I think there is room for both fasteners.
Using long small diameter wood screws (finish screws - stainless versions) in both Robertson and Torx drive I have to say that Torx wins. I've never had the Torx version cam out but the Roberston has often cammed out and ruined the square in the head causing great difficulty in removing partially driven screws as well as later removal of fully driven screws to replace components.
It's a feature! They're instant security screws! 😂
Robertson generally comes in 3 sizes Green handle is smallest, Red is medium and most used and Black which is larger than medium. If you camed out of a Robertson, chances are good the screw- head was not clean or you had too small of a screwdriver. Rust and schmoo has got to be picked out with a small nail usually is enough and then the proper screwdriver is hammered into the opening. It won't cam out.
@@bunzeebear2973 That's a lot of work to simply drive a screw. I've never had to hammer a torx bit into a screw and the only times I've had to do that with Phillips is when they're full of paint.
I run Phillips as a diyer because that's what I started with and I have multiple 5 pound boxes of Phillips head screws.
Now my dad spent years as a contractor and went from Phillips to square and finally torx. Once a year I spend a week working around his house doing as many things as I can for my 79 year old parents. First thing I do is fill a pocket with driver bits because I will need them all, I spend more time switching bits then I do anything else. Last summer I replaced a PVC outdoor water line and needed phillips, square 2 and 3, and 2 sizes of torx to remove the 5 clamps holding the pipe to a wood wall. When I put the new line up I used Phillips from my stash.
Why do slotted/flat head screws still exist? I hate them...
They work good for outlets because people paint over them all the time and they are easy to scrape out. These days they are usually combined with Phillips. They also look more appealing on an outlet cover because it's harder to damage them, when people see them the know they have to use a screw driver which means you're less likely to damage the paint on the screw
@@Doctrtony yeah those are still terrible reasons just blabbery imo
They look best on exposed work...
They are a huge pain in the ass though.
It’s great for those who won’t have a tool on them all the time. I can tighten using a knife blade or coin.
Aesthetics. Any other screw doesn't look right on something that's supposed to look vintage because only slotted existed at one point.
Funny how impact drivers are loved for driving in screws into wood, especially philips screws due to the tools axial impacts, which actually have the effect of undoing the cam-out feature of philips screws by axial impacts. in other words: "use impact driver to reduce cam out of the fastener technology which was specifically designed to cam out under high torque".
Very interesting history and I appreciate the information. I also was surprised by the conclusion about the benefits of camout to prevent damage to material and even having fastener breakoff in your work material. I appreciate the work you put into assembling the video and making it interesting.
Never thought about phillips camming out by design. It is to stop us knuckleheads from screwing things up more than we already do! Brilliant!!
Nothing like a torx fastener. Having said that, Phillips DEFINITELY has a wider range of options, period. Slotted still has it's place for switch plate covers and receptacle covers. Oh, and as pry bars and chisels. Phillips also still dominates the jobsites with drywall and metal stud fasteners. Thank you for the topic, Vince. Peace and God bless! 😁👍✌
Amen!
I like that the Robertson screws are very snug in their design. A few years ago however, I had to pull out a bunch of Roberston screws from an old childrens' play set that were rusted and it was a pain in the butt. When they get rusted the fit gets really tight and it takes time to get the driver bit into and out of the Roberson socket. I live in VA and I think that most Americans are gravitating towards the Torx hexagonal screw type. It is a great balance of grip (low cam out) and easy-in-easy-out. Phillips screws are going out of style thank god.
*Carpenters:* "Oh good, my Philips head stopped me from splitting this board." *Electricians:* "Impact go BRBRBRBRBRBRBRB" Great video Vince, honestly never thought about this but it makes a lot of sense!
Well duh, as the arbiter of electricity... My tools need to have as much power as I do.... UNLIMITED POWWAHHHH!!!!!!!! MUAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!
Torx plus a good impact will get you through any material, no matter how deep you should have stopped.
This comment is so true. I think my name gives a clue as to which of those trades I hail from😅
@@dandersonanza facts
This would have made me spit my coffee legit. "Impact go brbrbrbrbrrbrbbrrbrb" LOL cmon man its too true. I think it's true for every other trade other than carpenters.
I kinda like the star bit i rarely need to do any kind of home improvement and have some fine motor issues so the fact that the bit stays in and i dont need to put a lot of force on the drill is a huge plus for me
I really enjoyed the history lesson along with this, and basically it all boils down to there is no one right fastener, use the one that best fits the job and the tool
Yes there is. Torx is the right one. There is not a single thing better in other screw types. Only worse properties
@@risto9991 well, its good to have opinions, though I think Vince made a good point when mentioning assembly of aircraft on the soft aluminum. better to cam out the screw than to mess up the frame. Fanboy a screw, that is a new one.
Good job with the screws. Even better conclusions. I had not put your conclusions into our manufacturing thought process, only the pressure vs setting of the screw. Your video gave me a good idea of what to make some issues better. Thank you. Good work.
Great info that makes sense👍 I use torx and phillips all day long in my profession of building wooden gazebos and playsets and I also occassionally use the square drive robertson screw as well. I use phillips and robertson screws of varying lengths up to 6" and T40, T30, and T25 torx head lags of varying lengths up to 8" x 5/16 diameter. I will say that the torx head is the king of applicable torque which isnt surprising given its name, but I imagine the phillips screw will hang around for a long time as its the cheapest to make and buy and therefore reduces the cost of a build project. Since the tech of driving tools has come such a long way the advantage of safety camout for phillips is no longer necessary with clutched or torque adjustable driving drills and impacts imo. The last saving grace for phillips is theyre cheaper then robertson or torx. I suppose if cost wasnt a consideration then Id chose torx every time.
Love this guy’s enthusiasm!! Keep up the good work bro 👍 love ❤️ from England 🏴
Just a wee observation ... the screw shown at 5:32, the one with the dot, is a JIS screw( Japanese Industry Standard.
I like the school of thoughts here.
-Torx for assembly lines. (makes sense, much less tiring to play with torx when you know what you're doing)
-Square (f off patterson, its sq2 now, perfect for DIY when you need lots of torque EX: deck screws)
-Phillips for everything else like servicing, low torque applications where cam out is desired instead of over-torquing and damaging threads, heads or surfaces.
Im glad I watched this, I came pretty much to this conclusions but mine was sq2 for less cam out, pretty much the same. Torx is just too fancy for the DIY i am. If the prices where the same Id probably go torx instead of everything else. After breaking bolts on car wheels I realised I had enough strength to chill the f out lol
P.s: That being said, if any experts reading, are phillips screws also made cheaper since it's engineered for low torque? I had several philips screws of all kinds (drywall, wood) snap on me while I was torquing it, always in the same spot too right after the head about 0-5mm down. My guess is that since they were designed for low torque the manufacturers put less material on these to reduce costs. I rarely had a square screw snap like that but its do-able for sure if you don't pre-drill where needed.
For sure homie I smashed the like! I tell this to the crew but not in such a engineering way but from experience, I tell them basically what works better for you in the application at hand. I love all options and trying out new or old methods and now with the newer cordless power tools we have more alternatives, God bless you and your channel keep up the great work straight spitting knowledge, peace out stay up!
Robertson for general fixing like window catches, brackets. It is readily available here in NZ.
Torx all the way. Square head strips (cam out) as does phillips. Don't get me started on slotted.
yep, taking apart the entertainment center that were left in the new home we bought… all square and 30% of them has cam outs due to stripping.
Torx forever.
Back in 2006 torx buts sucked. I sank thousands with a cheap corded drill. Sucked big time. Wish they were phillips
I find torx stips out more in my experience and it usually fubars bot tool and fastener, most of the torx i deal with though are t10 and smaller though
@@NoahMTSpensley found the same deal in the smaller torx screws and bits. The tiny splines on the driver bits just shear off
If I'm worried about over torquing my screw, I will set the torque setting on my driver tool to avoid that. The advantages of Torx or Roberts drive is so great that I can exercise a bit of care to not over torque the screw.
Recently repaired a fence with square bits (Robertson's) was really grateful for the self hold and reduced cam out. There was some wobble on some screws but honestly was a pleasure,
I really enjoy torx and like the fact that torx bits can double as a hex for Imperial sizes when you only have metric hex bits.
And I really wish drill screws for steel would change from Phillips to either torx of square. But considering that the head often breaks off with high force probably best to keep it as is.
I hate seeing flat head screws, but you can put more force into electric terminals that Phillips.
The 1 type I really hate is pozi. In my opinion the worst screw head.
As I've gone on I've grown more to hate Phillips and to like flatheads. No stripping is nice but it's just me. Also helps when you don't have a screwdriver and just a coin
The Robertson screw was invented in Canada over a decade before Phillips. The tendency of Phillips screws to cam out was considered an advantage in manufacturing to prevent overdriving.
I definitely use all three in my handyman and electrical service work. I love the squares with the electrical panel covers and the circuit breakers. I carry a mix of all purpose Phillips head screws and sheet metal screws for variety of light duty fastening. And I tend to use the star heads or torx for heavy duty fastening, Especially all types of lumber work.
Absolutely AWESOME video and discussion. I love deep dives like this one into the "why" of all things :)
Glad you enjoyed it!
Screws seem like a mundane addition to a toolchest but happen to be critical!
Im so glad you made this video! I feel like so few people understand this about philips screws. Also there is no "best fastener" there is only the best fastener for a specific job.
I've used all of these types of heads and I've never had issues with the hex head screws. I've had people round out the square heads and the philips is just crap altogether.
The only true way to round a square head is if the fastener was crap to begin with. I have had way more Robertsons break than strip Of course you can find crappy fasteners with any head..
Thanks for making a video on this Vince... As I have explained this in detail quite a few times some of which have been in the comment section of your videos and I don't always explain things very well so a video was needed and you are always the right person for that!
This may have been more helpful in the past, but isnt this a specific feature built into drill drivers with 'screw' functions? You switch to the screw function, set your torque lower or higher depending on the fastener material and the material you want to fasten to and voilà, problem solved while still using a superior drive head (square or star)!
That's an excellent comment.
Good view but at the same time extremely narrow even still in 2021. Not everybody has a 200$ impact. Especially ones that didn't exist 10 yrs ago.
Yes! Even my Milwaukee impact has 3 settings, and the newer model has a 4th setting specifically for sheet metal screws.
@@PatTheRiot I don't think he was talking about impacts though, just the adjustable clutch on virtually every cordless drill irrespective of price. That's why they're called drill/drivers. Amusing when you forget to switch back to drill mode too.
One of the best advantage, even over the incredible keeping screw force of Robertson system is the need of only 3 screwdrivers for most if not all use , green, red and black. Most of the time I discard Torks, Phillis and slotted used screw.
But we have clutches in drills these days! I’d prefer to set my clutch than it cam out and chew the head of the fastener
Or worse, chew up the cabinet you're screwing together
I have destroyed projects using torx screws. I still love torx but you may well be right about camming out being a feature
For me:
Flat Slot - the worst....nothing but hatred for that
Philips - fine for screws that are 2 inches or less in length
Anything 2.5+ in length I prefer Torx....Robertson is OK too
Retired electrician, Robertson has been used in Canada fore decades, one of my faves!
@vcg, torx all the way. I only use grk fasteners now, over kill for many home uses but they will hold better then most.
I learned something today. Philips were designed to cam out when the torque required to turn the screw reached a certain point.
That would explain why the only Philips heads you see on a job site (home construction) are on drywall screws. Despite the special drivers used by installers this design feature provides a back up to not over driving the screw too deep… which is messy in drywall.
Up here in Canada, where the Robertson was invented, we are pretty happy with them. Have used torx on a couple of decks though and really liked them.
Love the point that Phillips cam out is deliberate to prevent damage. I use this feature often and redrill a larger pilot or deeper countersink often.
The Philips also cams out once the screw is seated, so it is not over-torqued by the automatic tool inserting it. This is essential for installing many things, like drywall. Drywall screws and drywall guns work together to use the cam out to limit not only the depth, but also the torque helps to make the bit ready to slip.
Torx and square have advantages and disadvantages. Square will take more torque before stripping. Torx is easier to align a tool onto a partly inserted fastener, and does not require a deep head. Thus, construction screws for fastening wood are better in square, where they need to drive until sunk without pilot holes, and Torx is better on cars and small metal assemblies where that alignment is a help, the screw head is shallow, and torque is normally controlled by the insertion tool.
What always blows my mind is that the screws that hold a electrical socket trim plate in are the only screws who's screwdriver bit will kill u if u slip.
The one I use for most is a combination of Phillips that has also square socket head in the middle.
I only use straight bits when I strip out a Phillips and need to cut a groove in it 😂😂🤭
Robertson is my preference. If you’ve ever tried to extract a corroded torx fastener or one caked with paint you know how impossible it is. A square drive is easy to clean out the hole with a pick, or a small flathead or by just jamming the Robertson bit into the head.
Gotta admit i didn't know what those square bits in my bit kit were until now. 😂
🤣🤣👍🏻
Hmm... I have to agree with this reasoning. This honestly make a lot of sense. Working with metals and Taps and dies you never really know when a tap wears out of spec. If the screw breaks not a big deal. But if the the part the screw is fastened to is ruined do to it snapping in the part, You now have to rework the part off the assembly line. if that is even possible considering how large different trade equipment gets. There is a reason automated machines and factory station hand tools these days have over torque sensors and limits. Phillips screws were designed for assembly line workers with old power tools. Wow, the first torque wrench was invented in 1931 and the Phillips screw was invented 1932. That's a quick leap in logic right there. Some days I wish people would just explain why they believe in stuff. Thank you VCG for explaining this better and opening my mind to the real reason. You get a like sir!!!!!!
This might be the most wasted 10 minutes I've ever given away.
Most of this channels videos are clickbait
I’m 1 minute and 18 seconds in and saw this comment. Thanks for saving me 9 minutes!
9:28. Arghhh. I’m out.
Vince did give some history about the three screw head types but there was nothing about what the title claims. I feel like most of the videos I watch on this channel are like that.
@@panhandlemtb4308 just the comment i was looking for 👍👋
There is also a variation of the Pphilips with a shallower angle used traditionally on drywall skrews. It is about 15 degrees shallower that forces philips drivers out. Here in Canada Home hardware sells a good driver. If I remember they were called power drive until Philips used that trade name. Because of the variations available with Philips type screws that few people are aware of I now try to use Robertson as it is simple to use and even in an emergency resharpen! Try it just once and you will be amazed as to how fast you will be working!
Torx all day baby. Torx with my Makita XDT16?
Torx screws practically will themselves into the wood.
I rarely click Like on videos (even though I do like a lot of them), but you asked in an engaging way, so there you go.