Armada's Twitlonger
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- A couple of days ago, Super Smash Bros. Melee God Armada started making somewhat cryptic tweets in regards to his retirement from Melee. No one was quite sure what might have been going on, but Armada finally came forward with a Twitlonger about the abuse he received.
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Hbox's mom tweeting at Armada is the most wholesome thing lmao
Isn’t she always?
Yeah but it cracks me up that she called him the most genuine person in the community. Does she know something about HBox we don't!? DUN DUN DUNNNNN
What did she say?
Hbox's mom is the most wholesome thing everytime she appears
HBox’s mom is definitely too cool!! 😊
Didn't think bromances could have toxic ex-brofriends but here we are.
Bro 💀
Literally a Toxic and Drunk ex-boyfriend
💯
Dont make it weird
@@Sidney_TSG I second this sentiment
I think what you both went through is the opposite of each other, the hate you had was a high flame that was hot. Armadas is like a coal that never went out and started fire.
@@debeb5148 Read it again.
@@mascape92 Thank you for pointing me back at it, I read more closely. Makes more sense now
@@debeb5148 Can you explain it to me? I don't fully get it
@@paul_particularlyunhappynut The hate Melee fans had for Hungry Box was like a wildfire, destroying everything in its path before being contained, whereas the hate for Armada is like the endless coal fire burning under Centralia, PA (the ghost town that inspired the foggy Silent Hill)
This community will never fail to spawn an endless supply of pointless controversy, toxicity, and cringe.
The majority of the community isn’t involved in these incidents.
MvC2 has swearing, name calling, salty money matches, and it has like no drama compared to Melee. Its like toxically non-toxic. Everything is up front. Whereas Melee has the shiny professional veneer, but backroom brawls.
@@fourkambuchas8546 This community still spawns this kinda shit. Its adults who play a childrens party game competitively. Obviously this much cringe and drama comes up
@@fourkambuchas8546 "Hey the majority of people arent murderers so why bother with the few who are?"
Like really, what a stupid fucking comment.
THOUSANDS of people reply to this shit in seconds.
You really think that people only like/watch one player? The same people doing this shit are the same people who are in other streams acting civil.
I can say without a doubt that some of the top melee personas have the absolutely most toxic fans with usually nothing to even back their point up with. They are like rabid dogs trained to slander, attack, degrade and troll anyone their overlord streamer/player deems unfitting. This isnt even a Mang0 thing. Its a smash thing. Most of the top personas are all guilty of it in the last few years. I cant actually go enjoy chat in streams anymore because its always mean spirited and defeating the point of any sportsmanship.
@@ytcmbt2505 yeah cringe and drama and bad things happen everywhere, it’s not just in smash believe it or not
I feel like a lot of eSports are still relatively young so people don't realize, it's totally normal to retire after a decade or so of competing at the highest level. The amount of time, effort, and mental energy it takes to continually play at such a high level is insane. Imagine if people accused Michael Jordan of being "scared" of young up and comers and not being able to hang when he decided to retire? Because that's basically what's happening here. Armada had a great career, solidified himself as the best player during that era of melee, and retired after he accomplished all he set out to do. Let the man live his life in peace and show him the respect he's rightfully earned.
You answered your statement yourself. Amads competed for a lot of years and he retired as THE BEST MELEE PLAYER of that era. Many still consider him the best of the best.
Mang0 has never reached that level. He is super good, he has competed forever, won Evo, but he is not the best and has never been. That eats him alive because he is an egotestical douche. His fanbase has to tryhard so much the "mang0 is the goat" yet we all know he is not. He is not even 1# in the rankings... he recently started to win to go up the ranks, but before? he got 11# placed. Not even top 8# but his community says what? Mang0 is the best.
Armada make up some good points in here regarding mang0 toxicity
@@Yokai_Yuri Why are you trying to pour gas on the fire lol
Mango had a time when he was the best!
The fact you mentioned Michael Jordan seems really unaware. Using past legends as a reference point or commenting on how theyd stack up today is incredibly common in nearly every type of competition. Comparing Lebron to MJ or MJ to players that came before him is a staple of ESPN. This is normal and expected behaviour but, people sending death threats to Armada is completely uncalled for and unexcusable.
@Hiraeth Sure, people argue all day and night about who's better, LeBron or MJ. It doesn't mean it's worthwhile. The conclusion is and always has been: you can't compare the two. This happens a lot with various sports (Hank Aaron vs various modern home run record challengers, Muhammad Ali vs Tyson, etc.) It's fun to think about but ultimately a fruitless discussion. These players played in different eras with different metas, technologies, and training methods available to them.
Mang0 seems obsessed with establishing that he's the overall GOAT but that's simply impossible to establish. All he ends up doing is getting the more extreme segments of his fanbase to harass Armada and tarnish his legacy.
You know what happens in professional sports when these discussions come up? The players usually show a great deal of respect to the other person they're being compared to and leave it at that.
@@Yokai_Yuri armada a pussy mango the goat😂😂😂😂😂😂
Hbox has such "Content Brain" and I don't know if I love it or hate it
what does this mean
@@BasedCowboy Armada talks about getting harassed for years and HBox's immediate reaction is to call for a boxing match.
The grind never stops
That's why we are watching this in the first place. He knows what he is doing.
Squidjenkins
"for some people in the scene Mango can't do anything wrong"
TRUE. Armada was just spitting facts.
HBox personally is VERY familiar with this.
@@coolyeh1017 so true.
Hbox and Mango are basically franchised names at this point. Their followers and "stans" will literally sabotage their own favorite player in attempts to make others look bad.
Honestly the community of smash perpetuates hate more than the players.
You cant just like someone for being good at the game anymore. Now its politics.
It's like that for every noteworthy melee player. They all have their hardcore fans. Leffen has been abusing this to harrass others for years.
Armada just sounds salty that he’s no longer relevant. Face it, him and M2k quit melee to try and capitalize off ult and become big streamers. They sold out and failed, so for that they rightfully get grief.
@@zogbogbean2464 Mango, Leffen and HBox are far bigger sellouts than Armada.
The way I see it, I think Armada is completely valid here, and it's important to note that the solution is not dramatic at all. Nobody needs to be cancelled. Mango can just clear the air here and let Armada live in peace, no skin off of anyone's back. Anything else would create sides, where I think most would take armada's side. Even if Armada didn't give the whole truth, anything he could've said about a game doesn't warrant this level of hate.
based
unfortunately mango cant just clear the air. Mango is gonna continue his narrative.
mango's apology tweet was pretty weak, but if he just did the bare minimum that a lot of youtubers and streamers do and reminded his fans regularly not to flame people he talks trash about, it'd show he took it serious and would help to curb stuff like this happening in the future
@@fridaynightpizza7158 how was it weak he said we’ve both handled it bad which is true. Apologized for death threats, and would rather talk privately man to man. Also I think just telling chat does nothing, I’ve seen him say that it’s not like it stops them
The Community is till allowing Leffen to stay, so I don#t expect any actual consequences for bad behaviour anymore
IBDW and mew2king already talked about this and they both agree that Armada retiring had nothing to do with players improving as he almost quit in 2013, IBDW explains how it was just bad timing and because of slippi everyone improved a lot, and I think Mang0 knew that wasn’t true but said it anyways which I think is wrong and just low tbh
I think the problem is that Mang0 is OBSESSED with being considered the GOAT at this point, and there are still not-insignificant #'s who still consider it to be Armada, so consciously or not he's always looking for ways to show it's him, and this unfortunately leads him to try to drag other people's legacy. That's my read anyways, obviously I don't know the guy.
@@danielurban3416 The fact that he brings up Armada into the GOAT debate every time he proclaims himself as the GOAT tells me that Mang0 probably knows that Armada is still the GOAT but doesn't wanna admit it due to his giant ego.
@@danielurban3416 ken will always be goat
@@veffiesdda965 Honestly I'm a Mang0 fan but I was floored in the PGStats Top 100 video they had the audacity to say "Armada has a positive head to head record on all his contemporaries" and "never got worse than fifth at a major" and they still chose Mang0 as #1 (who has a losing record against Armada _and_ Hungrybox, and is known to buster out and lose to lower ranked players on occasion). Armada was the "perfect" melee player imo. He had almost no weaknesses - immaculate punish game, tight neutral, everything was so flowcharted... He was brutal to watch and dismantled most opponents effortlessly.
I get that other people like Mang0 for the GOAT title for his longevity, embodiment of the 'spirit' of melee, etc., which are things I value too. But the stats are always going to be in Adam's favor no matter how long Mang0 plays, and Mang0 knows it.
@@winterlogical PG stats is like "Armada has the most impressive achievements...... but Mang0's the GOAT". lmao
This same community allows Leffen to stick around. I don’t think this will effect Mango too badly. Controversy fades in about three weeks for these goldfishes
Except if you're unpopular
Leffen should have been chased the fuck out of this community years ago. It's a crime that it still hasn't happened.
facts, they treated hbox like shit....
@@ameenjones7300 I feel like that's why Hbox isn't chanting that he was the goat when he was. Because the swedes constantly virtue signaling and talking shit. I see it so clearly now.
@@noisescape1 Even worse, he has a massive fanbase that still acts like he does nothing wrong or that he's improved since the past even though he really hasnt that much.
He's kinda just been grandfathered in as a shitty POS and so nobody really pays attention anymore when he's acting hella toxic.
Back then, he just wrote the following:
"...I also don't think the meta have changed that much. Melee is quite old and the more optimized it gets the less change will happen year after year"
I think a big portion of the community only heard Mang0's excessive stream-reaction to their twitter beef, but didn't read the twitter beef itself. I think this twitlonger is, all in all, pretty reasonable.
Well, it's not like ground breaking techniques, tricks or other things are getting discovered. It's been a good couple of years since someone actually discovered something gamechanging in Melee. The meta, therefore, can't change that much to begin with.
@@n3uro84 That's not true, meta can change without new tech being discovered. Decision making can change, new set-ups can be found, it's not that cut and dry
@@Bladieblah The term "Meta" in gaming stands for "Most efficient tactic available". Which means that in a game that doesn't see any new discoveries or updates, can't have a meta that changes too much. New setups CAN be found, but as I said, it's been a while since a new setup was found... That is my whole point.
@@n3uro84 I've never heard that acronym before and I don't believe many people have either. I'll go with it for now but I don't think it's an acronym.
Back to the main point, when a game is fresh in the first year, the meta will change a lot despite no updates or discoveries. Simple strategy optimization for different scenarios, counterplay to strong staple strategies. That can all happen, and mostly happens, without discovery of new tech or gameplay changes. Strategy changes can happen with the existing tools since it's just a huge back and forth, one that continues to this day.
As for examples, slide offs being used more is a somewhat recent development
@@n3uro84 search it up that’s not what meta means. it’s not an acronym. people just made that up afterwards and people like you just spread it because it sounds good and makes sense but nonetheless it’s not true
Bro joining competitive melee is like getting a gym membership. When you join, you can't leave.
You can check out any time you like
But you can never leave
* solo starts*
So like the Yakuza
Yeah
Makes sense, it's a really fun game
@@supernaturaltychoon3164 I can't tell if ur joking or not, but just to be safe, I'm gonna say that we aren't talking about the yakuza game.
I’m not privy to the extent Mango has shit talk armada over the years but one thing I do agree with is that, like many public figures/people with a decently large following, mango can be very irresponsible when it comes to being aware of the sway he has over the fans’ opinions. A moment of tactlessnesses on his part can easily morph into hate and vitriol from the masses. He’s free to speak his mind but it’s important to be aware of that at least
I dunno if he's always drunk but he acts like it.
@@nathanlevesque7812Mang0? Drunk? Never
thAt's thE ManG0!
@@nathanlevesque7812 it’s one of the reasons he has the large following he has lol
I agree it's preposterous how he can self proclaim himself as the goat when in my memory mango couldn't fk with armada in bracket in his prime. I say this as someone who was usually disappointed because I was rooting for mango back then.
How will this effect the Pikachu Up-Air hitboxes??
Most important question tbh
Lmaoooo
Jeez man i feel bad for armanda hes not even in the scene anymore let the man rest.
He brought all this on himself with his BS comments about the meta. Completely invalidating the hard work of every melee player and then crying when he gets called out for it. Armada just has paper skin.
@@heron22wading But he is right. The meta has not changed that much. Melee has a huge problem and that is the fandom over reacts or overrate anything the lead players say. If the lead players says "dudeeee the meta is so hot and different" people will go about and defend that ( look at the remarks and opinion of this same very video for reference) Armada's opinion is the opinion of a player and not any playet, he was the best melee player in his era and possibly the best melee player of all time. He knows what he is speaking.
The community as a whole is fairly ignorant on how melee( the game works) they just think is just wave dash and that's it. Melee Meta has not changed drastically. just a little bit. Basically it is more optimization 🤷🏻♂️.
anyways Armada > Mang0
@@Yokai_Yuri Meta hasn't changed much but a Yoshi is winning majors lol
@@Vextos I wouldn't say that aMSa - one singular player - improving to the point where he can win super majors reflects a massive meta change in the whole scene. That being said, the meta has no doubt changed. However, Armada was being very clear in the twitlonger about what he actually meant about what he said about the meta. He was not trying to invalidate the hard work of players that have improved since 2018, people just misunderstood what he meant. Anyone making the argument that he "deserved the hate" is full of shit.
@@Vextos do you know what "meta" means
2023 off to a weird start.
My prediction ? Mango continues to act like a man child and nothing changes.
Look up his tweet about this, you would be suprised.
Problem is die hard mango fans will keep making death threats because of his man child behavior
Not only did he respond objectively right, he gave a good side to it too that he didn't like how he was portrayed.
Mango reached out and tried to clear the air, Armada ignored him. Armada is the baby in this situation.
4:10 yo he deadass doesnt notice he's doing the accent at first lmao
how will this affect Armada's legacy
still da GOAT
Not a thing
But can he beat Steph Curry?
@@epyons8411 he was the best for a long time what are you talking about
I believe he meant that it won't have an effect on his legacy. Do you disagree, or did you just misunderstand?
hbox I know it's got a template, but you need to drop the links to twitlongers you talk about and other stuff like that in the description
And kinda random but based on my last comment I just wanted to say that you have inspired people. At least myself. How you managed to become one of the best players of all time while going through everything you did is a story of legend.
But how will it affect the Samus - Sheik matchup ?
how will the word “have” affect Armada’s legacy?
Makes him look like a cry baby bitch bro this drama is like 7-10 years too late
It have a very large effect
Hbox: "Editor, cut that out..."
Editor: "Haha... no..."
Imagine this making rounds but Leffen still walks around after the ZeRo incident
The fact that Leffen hasn’t been canceled off the face of the earth in general is astounding
@Empiar Mr.Clearasil needs to GO TO-DAY!
I disagree. I'm just not convinced that the majority of people wouldn't have done the same, so I don't hold it against him.
What's the zer0 incident with leffen?
@@MrGtgguy you think most people would try to force people not to do a wellness check on a suicidal man?
you're sick
Solid 10 on that one. Been convinced for years that Mang0's "trash talking" just went way past the point of normal toxicity. I know nothing about Armada as a person, but honestly I'm very much inclined to believe it all.
We need that Chessboxing match. Hbox v Leffen / Mang0 v Armada. That would be such a wild showdown LMAO
Nah just throw em all in there at once as a free for all
@@primecalibur and turn on items
@@thezerowulf2046 now it's a chair fight 🦍🪑
@@thezerowulf2046 hahhaha yeah absolutely. Free for all with items. Ludwig Smashdown Cage Match 😂😂
Can't wait to flip on Telemundo and watch that mfer with my abuelita
I think it's also very important to note that mang0's twitch channel has the option to 'fudge' someone for channel points which times them out. It's excruciatingly common for anyone with an outside opinion, even if joking, to get 'fudged'. This can be used to effectively silence any blowback he has when he throws stray hands at people for genuinely no reason. Because "dude it's just mang0 being mang0 don't get so butthurt". If you watch mang0's twitch he even routinely says "Who said that? Fudge that guy." albeit jokingly at times, but it still sets a mob mentality up as the status quo even outside of 'just joking' scenarios.
I've been watching mang0 for some time and Armada is right, you can't call mang0 out. He'll call you a Jabroni before going on a tirade about his achievements, you'll get fudged if it's on twitch. mang0's always been a bit of a dink, but I've noticed he's been progressively getting worse about it as if it's 2010-2015 still.
This is just insane to me. Almost every stream I’ve watched has this option to redeem for channel points. And yes, streamers in their own stream will always and should always have complete control over who can speak in their own stream. This is not silencing, there’s a million other places people will always be free to say whatever they to whoever they want. But not in a chat to someone streaming from their own house of their own free will. This all just feels so melodramatic and overblown. Is Mango a dick sometimes? Sure. Does he need to be “called out” and this behavior need to be “canceled and shamed and eradicated”, like no. This is a competitive community. People talk shit in sports. It’s intense. There’s high stakes. The world doesn’t need self indulgent morality police swarming anytime someone dares to talk a little shit or fuck around.
I'm gonna head this with an apology about three paragraphs below this. I decided to respond to you but also more clearly draw where I actually stand with mang0 at the same time just in case anyone else comes across these comments. TLDR I agree with a lot of what you typed, and I'm not really on a side, in my initial post I just decided to highlight some things that can get out of hand.
I used the word 'can' before talking about silencing because I agree that streamers and their moderators should have complete control over their chat, and even that these things could be handled other places, but people very well -could- just silence things they either don't want to read, or silence specific people they decided they don't like. This was like a year ago and I haven't seen it since, so it's not a current issue or anything, I'm just bringing this up as an example. I forget what the guy said, but he got fudged for it, and every time his fudging wore off and he said anything, fudged again. People have gotten a lot better about what they fudge but it's still an option for people to be vigilantes, which takes some control out of the streamer and moderator's hands. But again, people have gotten a lot better about it since it isn't a new thing to do anymore (and hasn't been for some time).
Handling things elsewhere is an option but in some instances, like twitter, that's where mang0 gets his Jabroni stories from. I can't say for sure, obviously, how many instances of his Jabroni stories do come from there, but I know for a fact he goes on rants about some messages he gets at times that -feel- like he's parading the unnamed person around like an idiot. Obviously there's the factor a lot of, and maybe none of these stories are genuinely meant to be a jab at people, but it's also playing into these morality police. What is a joke, what isn't? I don't want mang0 to be cancel-canceled, myself. Hell I laughed pretty hard when mang0 said "Cody's a little crack-head so he just comes running at me." during the Mainstage interview, competitive communities do have a lot of smack-talk, I'm not going to deny that, but it just feels like half the time it really isn't needed. I'm not about to say I watch every other smasher they don't talk crap, but the ones I do watch or at least when I'm watching them, they don't talk half as much smack as mang0 does.
Also I just want to point out for a moment, when I type mang0's a dink, I mean that more light-heartedly, like yeah he's a jerk but he can also be pretty wholesome too. To me dink is like low hostility and dick is high hostility. He throws hands but not all that harshly either. Hell, normally I don't respond to this kind of stuff, because again, I agree with the morality police swarming comment, I just think there's some on both sides of this. mang0's not a saint, that's kind of his whole brand, and I love him for it at times.
Mang0s a 30 year old alcoholic who plays video games for a living anyone looking up to him is delusional
Why wouldn't he? Nothing's enforced. Look at Leffen. No one is making him go away, and the people refusing to excommunicate him aren't excommunicated themselves. The community needs to put the boot on the neck of their players and both remind them of their place in this world, and make them feel gratitude for it.
"ugly anger" is a really good phrase, it captures the shame it involves
When?
The drama in the Smash Community is exactly why it's so hard to fully 100% get behind it. A bunch of 30+ year old children playing a children's party game without the party aspect. The scene bred toxicity over the last couple of decades and this is just the end result. I really don't see it ever getting any better unfortunately. Maybe the next generation will prove me wrong.
lol u ok man
100% spot on.
I think that Armada is being as mature as he can be in this situation. He just wants to fucking live in peace. He deserves that. Despite the fact that he hasn't been a public melee figure in so long, he's still getting shit from the Mango crowd. There are children, and there are adults.
It seems like Technicals was right all long
The ultimate generation is mostly drama free. They do not do the shit this melee guys do.
But how will this effect the global trout population?
Finally, some sense in this madness!
Finally, someone who understands what actually matters
after reading the whole twit longer I think I'm gonna eat less trout now, so.... up
This is sure to affect the global trout population
This is making me embarrassed to be a melee fan. At least Zain admitted he was becoming too obsessed with rankings but almost all other top players are so overly protective of their "legacies"
I kinda get them to be honest. They have spent like 15+ years of their lives to it.
Imagine being an Ultimate fan. Everyone hates everything except their own opinions!
The scene would be boring without that. I'm a Marth player and there's a reason I don't root for zain js
@@itscoolthough419but that was their choice. And with every choice, you have to be prepared for certain implications
Zain quickly became Mango/Leffen 2.0 after rising to the top, trying to adopt a streamer personality and all that, hard to watcg
People trying to downplay what Armada went through just know there are people that would take their lives for this type of harassment. I don't think Mango is 100% responsible for his fans actions, but when you foster hatred for years within your community over one person this is the result. And for that I think Mango was in the wrong.
Mango did not foster anything, people just take stream banter the wrong way.
@@TheVoidNoob Nah, that wasn't just banter. I tune into Mang0's stream every now and then, and he would shit on Armada whenever he had the chance. If you really couldn't see the bad blood then you're being delusional or trying to downplay what Mango did.
@@yamikamisama9166 I disagree with you. Mang0 is 100% banter and doesn’t promote actual hate. Most of his followers can read the room and understand that it’s suppose to be a fun stream. Because he jokes around about Armada doesn’t mean there’s “bad blood” because Mang0 can be seen cracking jokes about everyone. If Armada felt the wrong way about them he should’ve spoke to Mang0 in private and Mang0 would’ve stopped.
@@yamikamisama9166 btw I’m not saying Armada doesn’t have a right to feel the way he does because he totally does. All I’m saying is that nobody is in the wrong here. Mang0 didn’t have malicious intent and Armada has a right to express himself, but personally I do believe they should’ve handled it in private
@YamiKamiSama yeah man I watch Mangos stream once in a blue moon so like no yeah he's just spewing hate /s lmao if armada or one of his shills like you could just post some clips of mangos stream and prove it then I'll be happy to agree with you
I don't know how many more smash-related twitlongers I can handle
ngl i love mang, but Armada is still in his head.. There was a point around a year or 2 ago when he would mention Armada in his stream 20-30 times a day, and that lasted for moooooonths. He still brings armada up from time to time, and never says anything positive about him whatsoever.
Again this is coming from a Mang0 fan and 2+year twitch sub, a man who is banned in Leffens chat for posting mang0 emotes after a mang0 summit victory. However not even I can deny mang0 is borderline obsessed with armada, and the thought that some ppl consider armada the goat.
Also the only reason mang0 is cool with you now and not adam is at least in part due to the fact your name is Juan, ie rac1zm
Glad to see at least some members of the mango nation have a clue. Ty for carrying your community on your shoulders, smart mango fans seem to be a dying breed.
Reminds me of when Mang0 was playing against a Peach and everything he did and said was a condition by Armada. "I thought you were gonna do X. Adam would've done X there." kind of thing.
If theres one thing we in the smash community can be sure of, whether the games get updated or not, theres always new content to be had.
😂
Armada will always be the GOAT, and nothing will change my mind. You could basically count on one hand the number of times that he missed Grand Finals over, what, a four or five year stretch? He had a two-three year stretch where he didn't lose anyone not named mango, Leffen or Hbox. He completely shut out several characters/ players. He never sandbagged, he never took a game off, he made the BEST players in the world scratch, and fight, and claw for every percent.
You’re so delusional but go off
@@foundinthesauce8895 you're the delusional one that is COPING
@@yamikamisama9166 yea man for sure Armanda def the goat
He couldn't do it anymore though. The meta changed and the goat will change too
I feel like the best thing Mang0 can do is just say that he is sorry and leave it at that, is not like he is the same from so many years ago. Like you said, many things happened
I think there's a disconnect between what Mang0 say's and what his audience understands. I mean this in the nicest way (which still isn't nice) but his audience suffers from an inability to understand basic competitive trash talk because most of them were nerds that didn't play sports growing up. I don't think Mang0 is legit "trying" to belittle Armada he's just trying to bait him to play again because Mang0 just wants to play against the best players he can. However, I think his audience tends to not understand the intent and takes it literally, and instead of understanding it's for a competitive reason they go on a weird and borderline unhinged K-pop stans level of idiocy and harassment. Should Mang0 clarify his intent? Hell yeah, he needs to understand his audience can be insanely stupid. Should he be solely blamed because almost none of his fans understand basic sports trash talk? Nuh, that's on them to go outside and realize you can shit-talk someone while respecting their skill.
You nailed it. Also Armada is acting the same way as Mangos fans. It's just banter because Mango wants him to play again and Armada is taking it as trash talking. Mango is not responsible for what his fans say or do because he never told them to do that.
i dont watch mango but as a certified Insanely Stupid person i can confirm that's plausible for at least some of his audience.
i'm the same way--i get heated and passionate and emotional at the drop of a hat. and that's on me, i'm working on it but that's difficult and part of my nature.
I think Armada seems to be guilty of that disconnect as well, calling Mango out for being a toxic asshole rather than just focusing on his fans not understanding what he's meaning to say.
@@TheVoidNoob banter with someone who isn't necessarily your friend doesn't always work out
@@beardalaxyCould it be a culture thing?
Armada should come out and say 'all I know is from when I went first in rankings in 2015 until I retired, it was me and Hbox fighting for first place, and Mango was hiding behind beer'.
Well now he's hiding behind retirement while the battle of the real goat is still going down.
@@debeb5148 completely braindead take.
@@BloodyYTNamingNonsense Not at all. Hbox statistics wise is going to take over eventually if he gets a good streak of wins in the coming years. And when it happens, it's going to cut his ego into two
@@BloodyYTNamingNonsense What's more braindead is criticizing Mango's drinking habits when Armada used to drink and talk shit on Americans.
@@debeb5148 drinking isn't a problem when you don't pretend it's why you aren't winning. And in any case, Armada was winning whenever he was actively playing.
This is dumb. Armada is grown ass man. This could've ended literally the same month he retired or anytime in between if he actually confronted Mang0 to stop. Armada saying that within all these years that he never had the chance to say something about this is extremely doubtful. What gave him the ability to "finally" not only confront Mang0 but publicly shame him. I think this is even more malicious than what Mang0 did because this truly feels like the intent is more emotionally-driven and malicious, quite different from Mang0. This should've been a private matter, anything like this should always be a private. Armada is a grown ass man(or at least he should be). This is dumb.
And y'know. Armada's no Saint either. I only just recently started going back to his old moments, like when he was on commentary, and he talked mad shit about Americans. Mad fucking shit. Yet Mango is an asshole, a terrible person, and a liar.
When people say "Oh Armada handled it maturely." No. He ran to Twitter instead of going straight to the source.
Yeah literally at any point if armada picks up the phone and calls Mang0, this shit ends in a day. It's pretty telling that the only evidence Armada submitted about trying to reach out to Mang0 was a tweet he tagged him in
Hbox vs Leffen boxing will be the most ultimate match ever fought
How will this affect Hbox's ad revenue?
$$$
Booming rn lmfao
I’m not deep in melee drama/competition but I’ve been casually following since 2012. It blows my mind that anyone could send a death threat to Armada over something as inane as this drama.
internet people will send death threats if you dislike their favorite flavor of poptarts
I was sent a death threat on TH-cam just for responding to a guy.
I think Armada is pointing out a major problem with the Melee community that's been around for a long time, it's that toxicity is given a pass if you're a cool player to watch. Truthfully, I've always thought Mango was a douchebag. He reminds me of that kid in your class that openly sleeps all the time, drinks monsters, talks shit about his Mom, but for some reason is a popular kid. I had enough of that in high school, don't need it IRL.
Dudes named Kyle reading this: :(
But high school is IRL?
forgot to mention wins EVO more times than he does his own homework
That's oddly specific
Same. I always thought that guy was an asshole
Hbox's and mang0's relationship is like Goku and Vegeta over time.
They respected each other very much when they used to play, it just really felt like since there wasn't nobody pushing back mang0 keep "joking" and it went too far
It didn't go too far it's just people taking it too seriously
@@TheVoidNoob I don’t think Mang0 said anything that would be considered going too far but like Armada said it was just super constant and felt unnecessary. Mang0 probably didn’t really think he was being hurtful because he enjoys goofing and that’s his personality you can see that with Scar Toph S2J Lucky and the crew they all joke at each other’s expense nothing personal. But Armada isn’t apart of that crew and probably doesn’t understand that Mang0 is just poking fun lightheartedly and doesn’t seriously disrespect or dislike Armada.
At this point I'm disconnected from the melee scene entirely as a viewer. Though I might go watch some aMSa clips after seeing some comments here because I loved that guy's gameplay with Yoshi, gotta be some of the coolest innovative tech I could tell had so much potential when I saw it in action. But from what I remember, box had to be one of the true emotional tanks of the scene, taking all the hate and negativity thrown his way and turning himself into a rock for others in the scene to grasp onto. The lack of maturity and ego inflation I'm seeing from both sides of the conversation in this drama comparatively is pretty evident here. I feel like there was a lot of animosity that formed surrounding Melee, being at the top of your game or being called a failure and pathetic by the rampant community. Mango obviously needs to learn how to be more considerate towards others, and making others look bad and not doing any kind of boundary setting for his community is probably not the way to get there. Armada making a twitlonger for the death threats and general community message is definitely fair and it was worded well despite the evident bitterness. I sympathize with the struggle and understand how it feels to be berated online. But including beef with mango instead of just addressing mango privately about those specific points is putting some seriously disgraced pride on public display. Using social media validation as a substitute for clearly much needed therapy is not a good idea. Talk to a professional about these kind of issues you're having in your life, not twitter. That's just my take though.
I can't believe Mango turned out to be a Dark Triad :c
Jokes aside, hope they can move forward professionaly and/or amicably
"I hate being a drama goblin but - it's juicy"
This is why Hbox is my goat
I love to hate him, or I hate loving him?
Ive been singing Hbox's praises since 2014(when I got into the scene) in So Cal. And I want to say that Mang0's impact on the community has been so good for so many storylines. But almost exclusively negative in so many aspects. I was an extremely active Norwalk player around this time. And the consensus was that Hbox had no skill and "played lame" and was a bad person. Literally, these people didn't even know Hbox. One guy I knew got Hbox to sign his console, and literally kept saying this opinion anyways without really exchanging more than a few words with him, and honestly, Mang0 is like 99% of that problem.
I liked Hbox as a dude, but I really hated his play style. Anyone that just runs the clock and hangs off the edge is always annoying as hell and I want to see them lose lmao but I didn't hate him as a human nor did I convince myself he "sucked"
Mango is immature and always has been. He’s fun to watch but it’s no surprise he’s toxic for Armada! And considering how many times I’ve heard Mango say he hates Hbox, Mango should grow up already.
Edit: Saw what Mango said on Twitter and was as civil as anyone could be. That I respect.
Now did you see his video response? Even more well handled.
We're going to need that tier list Jaun.
How does this affect Armada’s legacy?
Idk, but it's definitely affecting Messi's legacy
@@Dizastermaster.but how will it affect Lebron’s legacy?
This comment was made 19 minutes ago but it says the video was made 11 minutes ago
@@joz1302 armada is coming to multiversus. He will be a +2 mu for Lebron.
Aaaaaaand I continue to not understand why people love Mango so much.
I like the actual mang0, the old mang0 was a douche, but he has changed for the better
Dad!Mang0 is actually cool, that's why his recent streams is better.
Back in the days though, he's a massive douche to other people for being lucky he could make a living by playing a game while being a dropout. It's like having a child actually changed him.
I don't understand how people love Armada when he was around that toxicity when he played too. But the victim status makes you all forget that. Bro smeared Hbox like Leffen did back in the day. He was part of all the hate. Now all the sudden tho he's innocent.
I wish I was born earlier, I was only 15 back in 2016. I would have liked to have today's perspective 5 years ago. Idk lol
@@debeb5148 It's definitely possible I missed it, but I don't remember Armada being toxic ever, just awkward. I was 26 in 2016 and pretty involved in the community. But I was a PPMD Mew2King fan so its possible I didn't have enough eyes on Armada then. I didn't care for Mang0 though, he has always been an ass.
@@FluffLBunny Yeah you missed it, and that's ok. I missed it too, and I was younger at the time. He made toxic comments when he was drunk on some occasions, like he was commentating with D1 and he was talking absolute shit on Americans. It was banter you'd see from Leffen or Mango actually, and now all the sudden he can't handle what's going on now.
He smeared Hbox with Leffen back in those 2016 days too. "Reasons to Dislike Hbox" "Why I hate Jigglypuff" it was clear as daylight, and not a person gave a fuck. And it's not like Armada was toxic every second of the day. I'm just saying that he contributed.
It’s sad that it’s gotten bad enough that Armada feels the need apologize for some comment he made on the meta three years ago. I really wish the smash community could move on from toxicity so it could be taken more seriously.
To be fair, grown adults playing a kids party game dead seriously at tournaments will probably never be taken seriously by the general public
@@sailgoat4733 It will be, esports are already embraced by millions of people and that number will only grow :)
Bruh, Armada needs to apologize to Hbox too for the hate he also spreaded back in 2016. But nooooo, he's the victim. He created this environment too before he left lmfao
Tell us something we didn't already know...
The sky is blue,
The sun is bright
Mango is an a$$hole...
I think anyone that has seen mangos behavior over the last decade already knew this lol.
I remember Mango banning someone in Twitch-Chat for saying "I love Armada". Now i know why. I think Mango should learn to be grateful for his skills in Melee and his ability to be "effortlessly cool" Instead of shitting on other people who do not have those traits.
mangoTYPERS I'll have you know he puts a bunch of effort in to being cool
Mango is a cool guy but he's just like any other cool person ever. I dont know why people dick ride him that nuch i thought it was like irony/a meme 🤷♂️ .
*effortlessly drunk
Mang0 is only effortlessly cool to people who have no friends
Effortlessly cool? He has mad “peaked in high school” energy lol
I can see it now.
Ludwig Smashboxing Tournament:
Hungrybox vs. Leffen
Dr. Alan vs. Ken Chen
Armada vs. Mango
Which one is the main event?
Saw myself in chat at 16:45
Mango is just melees version of XQC, a prick that every child loves
Thumbnail looks like Armada doing this from jail 😂😂😂
The fact that HBox is mourning Mang0 and Armada's bromance shows he's a fan of Melee just like the rest of us.
Yeah that shit sucked.
So in the FGC either run the set or shut up, Armada if you want to shut mango up, gotta go beat um. No one cares about your legacy in a video game. Either pick the controller up again, or just move on with your life. That twit longer was weird as hell.
@[GD] [GD] meh just my opinion, he obviously cares what other people think of him,.
I care about his legacy, and so do all the people sending support his way.
Your comment is beyond clueless, as Armada's skill or Mango's skill is not a factor in the discussion. So run a set for what? Go shove that set up your ass and try to pay attention to what the issue is next time.
Seeing any of the old gods still having beef is like watching your divorced parents still fighting over weekend visitation.
I would kill to see M2K slap the controller out of Leffen
once you get old you notice some things are just not worth putting effort into especially if it's something negative.
Esam vs Technicals Smash Boxing
Armada 100% stopped playing because he didn't WANT to keep up the grind to be no. 1. That is his own problem.
Mango is a real life Cartman from South Park. If you go against him, he will make you regret it. He also never takes full responsibility for his actions.
Him taking half the blame to this is the closest Armada is going to get to an apology and that just sucks.
He shouldn’t take full responsibility for the extreme degenerate trolls that take his shit talking to extremes. That’s ridiculous. He never told any of his fans to send death threats
Melee is gonna need it’s own justice system soon. Bring out mr game and watch for this one, we need a judge in here
yeah some people tried that and then people in that justice system got ousted for being bad individuals then the whole thing shut down.
At least Armada has the balls to say Mango is just a terrible person. He's funny. He's a good dad. He's also a toxic manchild who gets away with everything because his viewers enabled him to the point that he never had to grow up. You almost feel sorry for the guy.
You are delusional every top player has an ego lmao, even Armada has said some bullshit about Hbox when Hbox was getting trashed on by everyone.
yea hes been such a pillar in the community that people let him get away with basically anything. Im surprised hbox didnt say anything else, im assuming he just wants to move past it but mango almost did to him what he has done to armada. Actually if anything, i feel like the hate hbox got in this community was considerably worse. It was multiple people that started it with hbox 100% it wasn’t just mango but their rivalry definitely sparked a ton of it.
Mang0 treated Hbox way worse than he treated Armada. That being said, if they put it in the past, there’s no reason to reignite that fire.
I feel bad for the hate armada will get for this, the melee community not only encourages this kind of hate, but thrives on it. we had so many years of people rallying behind leffen because people enjoyed having someone to hate, and everyone was so quick to pull the trigger on hax.
The way I see it, mango is gonna get even bigger from this and armada will be fully pushed out from the community, not because it's mango, but because people love to hate
I would love to see a tag team boxing with hbox and armaba vs mang0 and Leffen
Leffen would immediately SD
@@thereconracoon3715 I'm imagining that he just clocks himself in the head and gets knocked out
He's lucky m2k isn't there to 6-0 him
Lmao. All these four people have beefed with each other at one point or another.
@@RIStar-ds7wr make it a Free-for-All then, it woule honestly be glorious.
Someone in the chat at the end said it pretty well I think; "Armada is saying what every non Mango fan is thinking for a long time"
Honestly, If you take someone not involved in smash, it's easy to see Mango objectively. Is he an asshole? Yes. Is he toxic? yes. That's also a part of his appeal. He's cool to kids that aren't cool.
The thumbnail with the orange hoodie looks like a mugshot and he's in jail. 🤣
this whole 'war' has gotten to a point where mango just keeps talking shit as he always has and Armada hasnt gotten a footing to reply from. when an 'ego' has the chance to grow and nothing to hold him back said 'ego' becomes a tumor the the ones catching the flack and that person being armada. i dont think mango is out to hurt armada its just his way to try and get him back to melee. but armada being the 'emotional' kind of guy tried to ignore it but mango being the ego-type just occassionally keeps bashing bashing bashing without thinking of what it does to armada. and eventually you get this the emotional-guy just cant take it anymore after years and years of sucking it up thinking it would die down, and the the ego-guy just keeps ramping up trying to downplay the REIGN armada had over him to keep his ego up to par. this isnt a war this is just a weirdly set up rivalry that died down and 1 player wants to ignite the other but the other doesnt and just accepts the bashing and eventually cant take it anymore. 1 insecure guy vs 1 sensitive guy voilá... drama
you cant push someone for years then call them sensitive if they respond.
I agree mango was being super harsh for no reason. I get that’s his personality to an extent but he could really use a huge chill pill
bullies are popular because of cultural follies
more popularity = more immunity
the more immune they get the more they escalate
@@Shabeast Yes you can. It's what I am seeing in this comment section.
Could be mango is just an a$$hole lol
This is crazy.
I wonder how this will affect the melee community
Mango? A friend of Leffen, being toxic? No! Please, it isn't so?!
They're not really friends as much as people think they are, he shit talks leffen probs more than Armada
What??
@@plipplop3684 I heard a mango fan mention that he brought up Armada like 20-30 times a stream one point
Armada seems like a much more emotionally mature person than Mang0
Mango obviously took it too far but an emotionally mature person doesn’t wait for years to respond with an essay
@@ceeb830 twitlongers are almost always stupid as hell lol
@@ceeb830 he ignored it for years as the situation kept getting worse and worse and the hate kept building and building. Of course he’s gonna address it. What’s immature is whining and shit talking someone for no real reason and refusing to own up to your mistakes because of ego. I don’t think you know the first thing about maturity
@@ceeb830 it was death by a thousand cuts. he had to tell the whole story from the beginning instead of calling it out at every turn and he explained why it happened now.
@@ceeb830 responding with an essay is plenty emotionally mature at face value 🤷♀️
2013 hbox AMA energy except it's 10 years later and it's from a gdamn 30 year old now instead of a kid still in college
Even if he left out of fear, he deserves respect. Being at the top for that long means you’ve earned it.
Still ain't the goat anymore lol.
Why would you diminish your legacy just to show that you’re not scared?
After seeing PP and Cody play on unranked, I think a top 5 player from 2016 could be in top 15 today with just a bit of practice, so I have to agree that the meta hasn't changed that much at the top since 2018, it just feels like there are more players at the top now.
Bruh even armada specified that he was only referring to the meta not changing much pre-slippi in 2020. The last 2-3 years changed things a massive amount
@@deeepblue yeah I'm aware, my point was that seeing how quickly someone like PP can become competitive on slippi, I think the meta hasn't changed so much that top players can't adapt their play styles from 2018 or even 2016.
Not even close, netplay isn't an end all be all like offline is. Pp wouldn't even break top 20 imo. Armada wouldn't. Too harsh competition I think
@@debeb5148 armada and pp would both be top 20 easy if they just took some time to get caught up on the meta
@@Masaru_kun I'd love to see it happen, but I especially doubt Armada would with the ego he has got.
that happens to the best, that´s why it happened to armada and hbox
6:29 HBox is so damn content-pilled lmao. Always on the lookout for great content.
This isn't even that much drama. It's just how it is. Mang0 always shit talks armada. I think mostly it's to try and coax him out of retirement. But I can see why his community would then run wild with it and then harass armada because of it.
>>But I can see why his community would then run wild with it and then harass armada because of it.
Yeah this is really the core of the issue. Anyone familiar with Mango's style of content will know that sensationalism and emotion are a big part of what he does. Kind of like pro wrestling bravado, and almost none of it is meant to be taken seriously. But it seems a sizeable portion of his audience doesn't really get that and will take it at face value as word of law.
This is a problem that pops up often with many popular content creators and it's an interesting one without a clearcut solution. It's reasonable enough to say that the creator should bear more responsibility for the situation, but what form does it take to handle it responsibly?? Should mango have to offer a disclaimer immediately any time he says something goofy? I don't know what the answer is
@@joshuapaul8580 he needs to tell fans that do crazy shit to cool the fuck off and not harass people just because he ribs them on stream. It’s honestly not that hard to not send somebody death threats, especially if your reasons were like “you stopped playing a video game”.
I honestly think armada’s reaction was infinitely more dramatic than it needed to be, nothing mango said was really even a “lie”. It’s conjecture and psychoanalyzing at worst, shit talking at best. The only narrative here is the idea that mango is spreading mass misinformation instead of just ribbing a former competitor.
Guys, stop defending Mango. The guy needs to grow up. He acts like an 18 year old. It's getting weird. Don't enable his childish behavior.
Yeah mango shit talks everyone and he doesn’t rly care about how fans run with it.
@@bigboy2217 he does tho but that doesn’t stop anyone lol. And yeah I agree it’s not rly a lie even after his reconfirmation of what he meant I can still read it of him disrespecting current players lol
The Melee community is stuck in 2001, the world around it has changed but, the stubborn dedication to an never give in that has kept it alive has also doomed it to never grow from what it was back then.
Ever heard of slippi?
Armada put his time in and work he made the knights bow to his will. Show some respect
He quit the game when the heat got too hot
I get the impression that Armada and Mang0 is something that never really went out and stuff gets added to cause flare ups. HBox and Mang0 blazed then brunt out.
When i saw HBox and Mang0 is cool nowadays to the point that they even went to a game together, surprises me knowing that they had a massive beef. Then i realized that they have clashed so many times and eventually realized their hate is stupid and became friends.
Armada and Mang0, however. Never got the chance to make amends since Armada quit competing in Melee and Mang0 spouted bullshit about the whole situation while drunk.
@@RenShinomiya121 Also made it difficult that Mang0 and Armada never really had as many chances to meet together in person. Armada leaving the game and also tend to sleep early so he doesn't hang out with fellow competitors as much as other competitors who stay out very late (Armada did this when he was younger though). Add to the physical distance it leaves little opportunity for Mang0 and Armada to settle their difference like how HBox mostly calmed down his beef with Leffen (you will see them joke and hang out together at some tournaments) or the infamous Mang0/Hbox feud (it was pretty nasty pre-2017).
@@RenShinomiya121 Not only did they not get a chance to make amends, but I bet Mango feels kind of slighted that for a long time, him and Armada went back and forth, and as Armada was really giving Mango the sauce he just stopped competing and ended up being positive on wins against Mango. He's got that highly competitive spirit, so not having a chance to get back at your rival is a pretty hard pill to swallow. Only way he sees it happening is if he pushes Armada's buttons so much that it motivates him to come back to try to prove he's still better than Mango is, so that Mango can be pushed harder and take him out.
Dear smash community, delete your twitter now. It’s just toxic and amounts to the drama of a high school soap opera
"SSBM's Most Toxic Player Tier List" - coming soon???
Honestly, the real reason is because Armada is the real GOAT of the game and Mango's ego cannot handle it. It doesn't go further than that
@@debeb5148 And? He has the best consistency of the history of the game, unlike mango. And if you lose to a scrubish strat you are the scrub, not the guy who does it
@@debeb5148 Delusional. Nearly no one will hold a top 5 minimum result for more than a decade ever again.
Armada is relevant because he is the GOAT, simple as that. No matter what you think in your american centric head.
@@debeb5148 Disrespectful ? When it's been Mango shitting on him for the most part and he just answered ONCE ? Lol. Man you gotta be 9 or something, or you must have Mango's dick so far down your throat you can't realize how retarded you are
I know this a year old, but at an opportune time, I would like to see the tier list of players who treated you badly, history on that era was documented from the side who bullied you essentially, I’d like to hear your side the other end of it. (basically the era before hbox won evo)
I called out Mango and got permanently banned from his chat. He's a bit of a tyrant tbh
Someone should send the timestamp of Hungry box talking about the boxing event potential to Ludwig
Smash boxing, 3 stock followed by a 3 min round. First to 3peat rounds or KO wins
Don’t give Ludwig any more ideas
This is so weird because as the biggest Mang0 fan, I still think Armada in his prime would whoop Mango.
This type of dialogue reminds me of smashboards to be honest. Actually seems more tame than smashboards