About the pause incident: Funnily enough, during one of the summits (5, I believe) Leffen was playing Axe on ironman and Scar was on commentary and Leffen accidentaly paused 'cause he thought he had lost his last stock, but then he made the recovery. Instantly, Leffen SDed because of the pause and Scar screamed "THAT'S RIGHT LEFFEN" frame perfectly. Best moment of Smash right there
@@jerdups5077 no, come on. You can hate IC's all you want, but the irl tactics are just grimy as fuck, espeically in a money match. I mean it's fucking hilarious, but I definitely can't empathize with him.
Interestingly enough I played a friendly with Armada at Pound 4 on the same 0.9 setup before the historic and controversial Armada/Silent Spectre set. It was a Peach ditto where he clobbered and 4 stocked me. Last stock I did a F-throw where he survived at 200%. The Unsolved Mystery for me was I wondered for years how he survived that F-throw!
About HBox’s Evo 2013, in his commentary on EmpLemon’s documentary, he said he plays Best of 3s different than Best of 5s. According to him, he takes more risks in Best of 5s, which is another big reason he got angry about the rule change and upset about the loss.
Also In the video where he watched the documentary with EmpLemon he mentioned that the smashboards thread said it was best of 5 for winners finals and when he mentioned it to Mr. Wizard he was disrespectful.
@UltimateShamrock yeah I never noticed until the twitter one. Dude definitely leans towards entertaining (for lack of a better word) opposed to informative documentaries.
I was in a final round replay situation in MvC3... I had actually already begun a match on Smash64 that was interupted so I can replay the semi final match in MvC3 because the tournament organizer (my opponent) forgot semis were supposed to be 3/5 instead of 2/3. I lost the replay and was so flustered I went 0-3 in loser finals and just quit the Smash 64 tourney. Replays are NEVER the answer. Dude shook my hand, admitted defeat, then one of his friends was like "oh but 3 out of 5" way after the fact. It's so demoralizing to have a win removed from your record, total BS.
In my locals is like that, i picked a stage where i actually did, the dude asked the host if i can do that, he answer that if both players agree, and proceed to make me choose another stage, at least both know what was happening.
I feel like with the coaching and the "going back to same stage" issue it is the responsibility of the opponent to recognize these rule violations, as they are visible, and call a TO. With the 0.9 knockback it isn't visible, so it is not the competitors responsibility to call it out. IMO the entire set should have been replayed
@@karlcossaboon7072 nah bro, there is straight up the Mike Haze rule that says no screaming or doing other actions to distract your opponent during a match
@@davidolinger3948 Maybe, this should apply to the crowd too (obviously not them making noise that would be ridiculous) they shouldn't be hanging all over players to the point where they can't turn without running into someone.
@@freddiesimmons1394 It would be TO discretion, but most TOs would probably say something as small as chewing gum is fine and tell John Numbers to just deal with it.
It's difficult to pronounce three correctly. We say "tre" in Swedish, with the R rolled. Armada is from Gothenburg where the R's are rolled like in Scottish. That's probably why he pronounces it the way he does!
@@tonysoprano4883 its a flick of the tounge on the front part of your mouth ( the t sound) followed by closing your throat and forcing a little air, making the r-r-r-r-r-r-r sound but keeping it at 1 r
I really enjoy Armadas accent in his english it reminds me of my great grandma to a degree (not exactly the same) but, she was born and raised in Finland. But, yeah the "three" always stands out to me and you hear it frequently because, of "best of 3" "game 3" "3 stocks left" "JV 3" its got lots of opportunities to come up.
@@TheO416 Yeah, I think my pronunciation of "three" is pretty good. As a non native English speaker, /th/ is hard as it is and followed by an /r/ makes it even harder. Most Swedish people say "free" though.
@@graywarden8340 I'm not sure if you've seen a lot of videos where Armada talks but that's just cause of his Swedish accent. He also pronounces brother as brudder haha
according to zero for the smash 4 clip, 3 matches happened potentially with the knockback set to 0.9 including one with zero vs dabuz in which afterwords dabuz had indeed said something was up with the knockback before the entire situation
EDIT: Turns out the Fortune clip is actually an overblown joke. Wish clips like these weren't made popular when they give bad reputations. This really sucks. Yeah... Fortune is the worst, unplugging your controller is a forfeit anywhere else.
@@TylerDonald-b2x That's... Exceptionally rough. Looked it up, Spring of 2022 or so. Very few details around about it, probably for the better there's not too much talk and gossip about it. Looked more into the infamous controller/pause incident too, and it seems like it was actually a hugely overblown joke in a "$5 tournament". That really, really, sucks. Outta context clips are the actual worst it seems, and Fortune here is an innocent victim. Fuckin' A.
@@TylerDonald-b2xMy replies keep getting deleted. Time to keep it simple. Thank you for informing me. It is a shame that things have happened this way.
@@bradl.602 I don’t believe it was a practical joke. What’s funny about it? Why go to that extreme? It’s more likely he thought he was cunning and found a loophole to pull out a win. It’s a convenient hindsight justification said after the fact to save face. Also the kind of lies people invent out of pity. Where was the pity when he was alive?
I don't know him as a person but, that was fucking low. Seriously disgraceful I had a step brother that would do the same kind of shit my entire childhood real scumbag.
@@ThePsychicTrainer I think he changed his name for that reason. I think if he genuinely learned from that, people should learn to let it go. It's grimey AF but it doesn't define him as a competitor if it was an isolated incident.
- Armada siding with Leffen thing of pausing and Leffen enforcing the rule, is the right call. Regardless if it was an accident or on purpose , if there are rules about the "pause", they should be enforced. And Leffen even let it go once , but Scar been Scar, spamming the start button...... - Replaying sets should not be a thing as Armada mention, the one who won , is under pressure of losing what they already achieved. Furthermore, it encourage the "losing player" to ask for a "replay". It is their fault for letting it happen or for not realizing it. - The Hungrybox one , Mr.Wizard screwing players and not even addressing a proper apology. - Well I guess what happen in Hungrybox in 2013, they gave it back to him in 2017 as a favor. - Fortune been a scumbag and having bad sportsmanship. - The 0.9 Smash 4 scenario pretty much killed Komirikiri smash career, he just got so fed up. - MikeHaze with the Mario Party tactic in that money match.
Komo had better results after that match with Cloud and was one of the top players in Smash 4. He was so good that he could beat Captain Zack with Roy. He only quit because he wanted to focus on school
The komo situation is very different imo There's a difference between something happening You seeing it and not saying anything or having a suspicion that can only be seen once playing the game and seeing the launch rates at death %
Two wrongs don't make a right. Giving Hbox this one means that they now owe Sfat one. Then they'll owe whoever gets screwed over by poor rule implementation the next time, and so on.
Henry Returns I think that Armadas point about replaying sets should stand for the Evo 2017 Hbox case. If the players dont speak out about the violation of the rules, and the match is played, the match is counted.
The 2013 one is bad but it does not make the 2017 situation okay at all..... what about Sfat? Besides even if you wanna compare it straight of, Hbox was still down in 2013 while he for sure should have been DQd in 2017. With that taken into account he still could have lost both sets with a best case scenario being winning one (which he still did). But yeah, 2 wrong things does not make 1 right, even less when different players are involved
According to ZeRo he and one of the people he faced noticed that certain moves weren't killing which means this was a problem for probably the whole tournament and that the ethical decision was to replay everything, but it would put everything else massively behind schedule.
Armada's reaction videos are the best reaction videos. Goes into so much more depth then what you usually see he isn't simply watching it and saying one or two not so meaningful things.
i believe that to change the launch rate in smash four you have to go into another part of the rules menu, similar to ultimate, so it is very likely it was changed intentionally
In regards to the second video, I 100% agree with you. It's just like in tennis reviews, if you want to challenge a call you have to do it immediately, you can't play the point out and then challenge once you lose the point.
People also forget that ZeRo VS Dabuz, the set before Komo/Zack was played on 0.9 too. I'm guessing if they replayed the set then Dabuz would argue his set should be replayed too. IIRC D1 even starts reading a tweet that points this out and then he stops himself
No I agree with the .9 shit because how are you supposed to know it’s on .9 when it’s been there on the set up for a while. It’s kinda like EVO, where you’re expected to change the rules every time. The whole set should’ve been replayed.
"There's nothing in the rules saying I can't infinite chaingrab!" "Yeah, and there's nothing in the rules saying I can't scream in your face whenever you do it!"
10:16 My friends and I have a rule in monopoly. If you land on someone's property, and they don't notice, you don't pay rent. Its to keep everyone engaged and to keep the game going a bit longer. If you don't notice someone pick a stage they won on, and try to do a take back, its too late, turn changed, you can't charge them rent anymore
24:49 This is an example of something you can't bring up before the match begins. Theoretically he may have been able to say something earlier in the set, but then again he might have not been sure.
You wouldn't know to check before the set starts, but he still had 3 chances (in between each game) to check before losing. Fortunately, this controversy gave way to an expressed rule about checking game settings before going through a set, so if the TOs fuck something up, the player should now know to do everything they can to make sure it's fixed
scar was 100% at fault here cause he paused 2 times WHILE HAVING 2 STOCKS. what made me mad that day was that he also witch hunted leffen on twitter the same hour and never apologized afaik. the people's champ? more like the sour griefer if you ask me. rules are rules and leffen + ice was on the right by going with the rules. the moment the pauses happen you see leffen playing footsies vs sfat and that was a clear disruption. mistakes happen once but he paused twice! just imagine YOU are the player/victim of that, put aside usa vs europe and see it from a competetive point, let me guess you would have let it slip cause he's the people champ right?
If it was 4 random and unknown players, people would've said some shit along the lines of "Damn, that fucking blows, but rules are rules" instead of the childish behavior they actually pulled. I like all four of those players, but Scar and the crowd were childish af that day.
Man that last one, I would have definitely put that under harming your opponent some way by screaming in their ear. I've had that happen, that shit hurts.
The thing with .9 in that instance is that it only benefit Bayonetta. She can literally kill you at any % and the added weight only makes her combos harder to escape. The SDI for the ladders might've also been affected considerably.
On the HBox coaching thing, the rules say that there's no coaching outside of pools. Except from what I have been told Evo pools go into a new set of pools basically until you get to finals so it's very unclear where coaching is supposed to stop.
I know leffen got a lot of hate for calling the pause, but imo he shouldn't have. Even though it was accidental, scar was pausing while ice and leffen were attempting to combo sfat and it disrupted them, and that's why the rule was put in place.
If you're wondering what Armada thinks about the Leffen vs Chu replay he made a video about it when it happened: th-cam.com/video/Sv9JUWnb0FY/w-d-xo.html The tldr of it was that he wouldn't have wanted to replay the set because it was vanilla Melee. If he won he would've DQ'd himself if they wanted a replay and if he lost he would've ran off stage for every stock. The lesson I've learned is know the rules while you're playing and refuse to play before talking to a TO. Also, when you lose and didn't call a rule breaking situation out that's on you and the results should stand. If you lose and need to replay you're the one who allowed it to happen and although you may win the replay it's unacceptable that your opponent needs to pay due to your mistake.
@Armada (i love u armada, i dont blame you for not agreeing with me cuz maybe you didnt consider the implications about the following topic) i legit think that if the damage/launch ratio being wrong gets noticed after a game, thats not necessarily the players fault and its a way bigger deal than the map/stage pick rules cuz it messes with the game in ways you arent supposed to get used to in practice, unlike map disadvantage, so i really really think that as long as the damage ratio gets noticed before its literally too late to replay, it should be replayed. imagine if a major grand finals was set to like 1.2 or 0.8 (or even 1.1 or 0.9 right) or some worse bullshit , and you notice right after game5 of the first set, it would kind of be ridiculous to not replay, especially if the person who won winners final ends up winning the first set in grand final (aka winning the grand final through winners bracket) on wrong dmg ratio, it would be completely fukin outrageous to not just replay the fucking set cmon bro you know im so goddam right. exception for lack of time left for the event: single match tiebreaker or whatever you wanna call it (or like if you have to do a replay of grand finals at a later date/event due to time constraint or whatever the fuck, competitive integrity is so important man, especially with cash prizes, just pay out 2nd place winnings to both grand finalists and give the rest to the winner once you can hold the delayed final, again, im so correct that it hurts)...
Those were "new" when it happened. We hadn't today's mindset back then, so even if the decisions taken seems dumb for today you also have to think that in the hurry you can do bad choices. That doesn't mean we aren't allowed to say those were bad decisions, because they are. The purpose of this video is to have documentation about what not to do and how to handle awkward situations.
Honestly, the same stage thing is so confusing for me. It's the only rule that I forget about all the time, can't decide which side I'm on, and see nobody talk about.
My problem with the idea of not replaying at least something in the 0.9 launch rate situation is that you can’t really call it out because it is something super quick and affects every game. It’s different from stage ban because you have a very easy time knowing what stage you are allowed to go back to. If there was a very obvious indicator of the launch rate then it shouldn’t be replayed, but there isn’t it is hidden in the rules and can’t be identified easily
So cringe how people think Leffen was wrong for the stock thing. HE PAUSED MULTIPLE TIMES AND CAUSED THEM TO DO TEAM DAMAGE. That's literally inarguable and I'm sure Scar regretted it tbh.
I feel like a 0.9 or modified knockback scenario should be an entire set replay. I agree with you when it comes to stage banning and the players needing to know the tournament rules. In that case you need to call it out before the match starts. But even an experienced top player may not immediately notice the knockback is modified, and it can only actually be verified after a match (in most case it will probably take numerous matches to even notice enough to check). In the komo-zack set it would be even more important, since 0.9 knockback would heavily influence Bayonetta's combos. If modified knockback is found to be on at any point during a set, it should be an immediate restart. That's my opinion, at least.
Hbox asked the TO if coaching was allowed they said yes then after the fact is was not allowed so the person doing the inspecting didn’t actually say anything you can see the TO standing by crunch
What was the “0.9” scenario armada was part of? I remember seeing something a while back about it, but I don’t remember who was involved or what happened
Silent spectre vs armada was played with that knockback and Armada ended up losing the set. If I remember this well it was the same tournament that armada ended up losing his final set to a non top 6 player for a long time being Amsah
Pause turned off should be a rule itself. So if a match has pause turned on and someone pauses the whole game should be played over as the settings were wrong from the start and the person who turned pause on again, if so, should be held responsible and DQd. I think even the person who brought/set up the set up should be held responsible if they never turned pause off. Scar obviously thought it was turned off before the set because it SHOULD be. That said as it is now it's up to the players to check the settings before the game so Scar unfortunately deserved to lose that stock.
I 100% disagree with games being reset because there's no way in hell anyone would agree to drop any sort of stock lead because of an oversight, especially if no one noticed until well into a match. Hell, even if the match was even and was only a minute or two in, simply restarting the match could throw off one player or give the other player new confidence artificially. Just look at what happened during the Super Bowl between the Ravens and 49ers: half the lights in the stadium went out and it caused such a momentum shift that the 49ers almost won the game despite being down by quite a bit prior to the power outage.
I have PTSD, if Mike Haze did that shit to me in a mildly stressful tournament setting it would have turned on a very dangerous reaction. That shit is not funny.
I think that it's pretty fair to let the players decide to take the pause stock. I think the rule is to make sure that you can't pause on purpose to disrupt the rhythm of the game. So then it's up to the opposite player if they think that the pause gave them an unfair advantage or not. If the other player doesn't think so, then it's up to them. I feel like the current rule is pretty reasonable.
So what about social pressure that was brought up? The TO/rule set should indeed be the deciding factor, not people potentially feel the need to accept something cause they will get tons of hate otherwise The player in the situation at hand should never be the one to decide themself
I disagree because people have an inherent need to feel "liked" and that could cloud their judgement. It should be black and white enforced. To me it does not make sense to enforce a rule in one game and in another game just ignore it.
heavy heavy disagree at 2:00 Look at homie stocks, in torunament theres no pressure for you to homie stock even if theres a divide in the perception of people. Leaving it up to the players wouldnt cause much peer pressure.
I think pause/stock should not be the situation for doubles when pause is a necessary part of gameplay--at least unless a hack of the game allows for a different control for stock transfers. It's clearly a different situation than singles where pause serves to do nothing but interrupt.
Your points of view are always on point Armada, i've followed the fgc in general since the days of mlg , wcg and bbb/evo. You would do a good commentator not just for melee.
TK is wrong for using the bodied sign after Komo lost the runback, you shake hands after a good set and that was not a good set. You could clearly tell by komos body language that the sonic F throw should’ve killed.
so that first clip, scar paused twice and was it leffen who paused the 3rd time? if leffen was gunna enforce that pause rule someone should of made him do it as well after all he did pause
@@shady8045 thats not what the title says. My comment was in response to all the pedophilia allegations or w.e. I dont remember this comment was 4 years ago bro
Doesn't matter if both players violated the rules, hbox did it first, therefore the match was forfeit as soon as it happened. No further official game could take place. What a stupid ruling
I don’t know who did the setup, but in a doubles match where a start button has an honest to god purpose, why blame the player and not the to’s? That’s a fucked up way to do things.
Launch rate and UFC are really hard to tell, especially when you're focused on your gameplay. I don't really think those games should stand. Not really same example as not remembering a no-coaching rule imo
the bayonetta vs Sonic aftermath scenario with the saltiness and stuff doesn't make sense.. cause bayonetta won before AND after the knockback being .9 .. so technically got 4 - 1
About what you said in the beginning Armada about no matter what if you pause you loose a stock. I have a question for that. In a tournament i was in. The HDMI cable was bad and our screen went black. I paused the game on instinct. This happened twice. We continued playing and the TO's said it was okay and we'll let this slide. Would you then say that my stock would need to be taken? I am genuinely curious about this because this has been bugging me for so long now. This was also before covid so this was an in person event. Not online. If anyone has any opinions about this. Please tell me
Imagine the narrative if SFAT soloed Leffen and Ice
greatest 2v1 in melee history if it happened
Very hard to 2vs1 in smash
that woulda been the most god tier shit
Imagine u win 1m$, never gonna happen just like sfat
@@Pantherocroco :/
About the pause incident: Funnily enough, during one of the summits (5, I believe) Leffen was playing Axe on ironman and Scar was on commentary and Leffen accidentaly paused 'cause he thought he had lost his last stock, but then he made the recovery. Instantly, Leffen SDed because of the pause and Scar screamed "THAT'S RIGHT LEFFEN" frame perfectly. Best moment of Smash right there
Scar has the most frame perfect commentary
This was such a funny moment. Years of salt erased for Scar that day.
Leffen being consistent with his own code, not much more to say
@@Wingsaber You can call him a prick (my favorite player tho) but never a hypocrite
@@dhaxiskhadhammer lol overall funny but kinda sad
"This doesn't happen in my country"
"Well, now it did"
Leffen is the living embodiment of the comeback you make up in the shower
Pretty sure anyone would reply like that.
@@Shminx no, Leffen is a BAMF who does not give fugg about stupid pride
@@Shminx I think you're just upset dude
Kody347 my man, you really salty at that when it’s such a good reply to a racist comment?
@@lightbrand_ .........................racist
ok..............
MikeHaze screaming while being chaingrabbed will never not be the funniest shit in the world, no matter how wrong it is
Also, it's hard not to empathize with Mike when he's playing against the most degenerate character in the history of Smash Bros, across any game
@@jerdups5077 no, come on. You can hate IC's all you want, but the irl tactics are just grimy as fuck, espeically in a money match. I mean it's fucking hilarious, but I definitely can't empathize with him.
@@jerdups5077 brawl icies WAY worse
eloc the turtle that _was_ brawl ICs (that he was talking about)
Jer Dups He chose to play competitive Brawl and you think you can empathize? Lol
Good guy SFAT for handshakes tho
MetroYeti I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who noticed that, although I never noticed it beforehand when I watched the set
The grimiest thing about Fortune's whole shit is that he didn't even need the stock, he was ahead
That Fortune guy... I dont know enough english to insult him properly.
Just curse him out in whatever language you know
according to other people hes a really nice guy
@@apaul7502 He was joking around, supposedly. The commentators were the ones that blew it out of proportion
@@staviersss8039 If he was joking then why did he not just say so?
Allan Vuic Was it Omni commentating? Might explain the drama lmao
Interestingly enough I played a friendly with Armada at Pound 4 on the same 0.9 setup before the historic and controversial Armada/Silent Spectre set. It was a Peach ditto where he clobbered and 4 stocked me. Last stock I did a F-throw where he survived at 200%.
The Unsolved Mystery for me was I wondered for years how he survived that F-throw!
The launch rate was set to 0.9 most likely
maybe the launch rate was at 0.9, that would explain why he lived fthrow at %200
THE LAUNCH RATE WAS SET TO 0.9!! THAT'S WHY HE LIVED!!!
Maybe it was because the launch rate was set at 0.9 that might explain how he lived at that %
About HBox’s Evo 2013, in his commentary on EmpLemon’s documentary, he said he plays Best of 3s different than Best of 5s. According to him, he takes more risks in Best of 5s, which is another big reason he got angry about the rule change and upset about the loss.
Also In the video where he watched the documentary with EmpLemon he mentioned that the smashboards thread said it was best of 5 for winners finals and when he mentioned it to Mr. Wizard he was disrespectful.
@UltimateShamrock yeah I never noticed until the twitter one. Dude definitely leans towards entertaining (for lack of a better word) opposed to informative documentaries.
I'm a bit surprised the EVO grand finals Bayo ditto wasnt here.
CaptainZach killed Smash4
And also Ultimate did too but we don’t talk about that
I feel kinda bad, what a sad way for a game's final tournemnt to go
@@johnnycrash4892 wasnt even close to the final tournament and imo i found it hilarious and a big fuck you to the crowd that was flaming them all day
@@bbqseitan7106 Leo saved ult from bayo being op again
That wouldbe the most controversial thing in Tr4sh history, not smash ;)
im sorry but replaying the game 5 v m2k is complete bs, if you played the match and bring it up after you lost thats grime
also i feel so bad for hbox losing to wobbles like that
@@TheBimmsterhe should have known from the other sets, him forgetting is on him
I think ChillinDude89s life would’ve been nothing but Ws if he beat Leffen that day
RIP Chillin, he ain’t dead but pray for him anyway
you scared me for a sec
I was in a final round replay situation in MvC3... I had actually already begun a match on Smash64 that was interupted so I can replay the semi final match in MvC3 because the tournament organizer (my opponent) forgot semis were supposed to be 3/5 instead of 2/3. I lost the replay and was so flustered I went 0-3 in loser finals and just quit the Smash 64 tourney.
Replays are NEVER the answer. Dude shook my hand, admitted defeat, then one of his friends was like "oh but 3 out of 5" way after the fact. It's so demoralizing to have a win removed from your record, total BS.
For me with that awful stage rule the standard should be, that if both players agreed to return to that stage then there is no problem.
Gentleman's Rule
In my locals is like that, i picked a stage where i actually did, the dude asked the host if i can do that, he answer that if both players agree, and proceed to make me choose another stage, at least both know what was happening.
The .9 launch rate is 100% the organizer's fault. Either replay the entire set or give compensation to both players.
I feel like with the coaching and the "going back to same stage" issue it is the responsibility of the opponent to recognize these rule violations, as they are visible, and call a TO. With the 0.9 knockback it isn't visible, so it is not the competitors responsibility to call it out. IMO the entire set should have been replayed
It actually is a rule now,
Mike Haze rule
Its a real thing
if ur talking about the stage rule thing
many people know that as
Dave's Stupid Rule
it has the name with good reason too
@@karlcossaboon7072 nah bro, there is straight up the Mike Haze rule that says no screaming or doing other actions to distract your opponent during a match
@@davidolinger3948 Maybe, this should apply to the crowd too (obviously not them making noise that would be ridiculous) they shouldn't be hanging all over players to the point where they can't turn without running into someone.
@@davidolinger3948 I once played John Numbers and he had the audacity to tell me to spit out my gum because he finds gum distracting. Does that count?
@@freddiesimmons1394 It would be TO discretion, but most TOs would probably say something as small as chewing gum is fine and tell John Numbers to just deal with it.
Gotta love the way he says three
Tdrdrdreee
It's difficult to pronounce three correctly. We say "tre" in Swedish, with the R rolled. Armada is from Gothenburg where the R's are rolled like in Scottish. That's probably why he pronounces it the way he does!
@@tonysoprano4883 its a flick of the tounge on the front part of your mouth ( the t sound) followed by closing your throat and forcing a little air, making the r-r-r-r-r-r-r sound but keeping it at 1 r
I really enjoy Armadas accent in his english it reminds me of my great grandma to a degree (not exactly the same) but, she was born and raised in Finland. But, yeah the "three" always stands out to me and you hear it frequently because, of "best of 3" "game 3" "3 stocks left" "JV 3" its got lots of opportunities to come up.
@@TheO416 Yeah, I think my pronunciation of "three" is pretty good. As a non native English speaker, /th/ is hard as it is and followed by an /r/ makes it even harder. Most Swedish people say "free" though.
I love your reaction content. It's so nice to see your extra opinions and inputs to help flesh out and explain some of the things in the videos.
This video would look real different if it were made two weeks later.
I love how he says "According to me" at 2:24
When you have to have an mla bibliography: "according to me, 2020"
3:25
I love how he says "In a best of three"
@@graywarden8340 I'm not sure if you've seen a lot of videos where Armada talks but that's just cause of his Swedish accent. He also pronounces brother as brudder haha
No f*rries
according to zero for the smash 4 clip, 3 matches happened potentially with the knockback set to 0.9 including one with zero vs dabuz in which afterwords dabuz had indeed said something was up with the knockback before the entire situation
Its not an armada Video if there is no smacking followed by a "uuuh"
i love the ice climbers one, man yells in pain and agony over smash brawl
EDIT: Turns out the Fortune clip is actually an overblown joke. Wish clips like these weren't made popular when they give bad reputations. This really sucks.
Yeah... Fortune is the worst, unplugging your controller is a forfeit anywhere else.
He committed suicide not long afterwards
@@TylerDonald-b2x That's... Exceptionally rough. Looked it up, Spring of 2022 or so. Very few details around about it, probably for the better there's not too much talk and gossip about it.
Looked more into the infamous controller/pause incident too, and it seems like it was actually a hugely overblown joke in a "$5 tournament". That really, really, sucks. Outta context clips are the actual worst it seems, and Fortune here is an innocent victim.
Fuckin' A.
@@TylerDonald-b2xMy replies keep getting deleted. Time to keep it simple.
Thank you for informing me. It is a shame that things have happened this way.
@@bradl.602 I don’t believe it was a practical joke. What’s funny about it? Why go to that extreme? It’s more likely he thought he was cunning and found a loophole to pull out a win. It’s a convenient hindsight justification said after the fact to save face. Also the kind of lies people invent out of pity. Where was the pity when he was alive?
Looks like we need a part 2
Lol if this means what I think it means
David Ramirez it do
but now theres too many moments
2:57 The player said "Woooow" at the same as the commentator lol
lmmfao the exact same time too
Fortune is a good example of entitlement, regardless that it was done as a joke.
I don't know him as a person but, that was fucking low. Seriously disgraceful I had a step brother that would do the same kind of shit my entire childhood real scumbag.
No real person interested in true competition would ever want to win in that fashion, pretty sad.
Honestly I feel bad for Fortune, no matter what he does he's always going to be remembered for that one scumbag moment lol
@@ThePsychicTrainer I think he changed his name for that reason. I think if he genuinely learned from that, people should learn to let it go. It's grimey AF but it doesn't define him as a competitor if it was an isolated incident.
He shouldn’t have doubled down over and over. He would have been fine if he admitted it as a joke right away. He didn’t, so it’s not a joke.
- Armada siding with Leffen thing of pausing and Leffen enforcing the rule, is the right call. Regardless if it was an accident or on purpose , if there are rules about the "pause", they should be enforced. And Leffen even let it go once , but Scar been Scar, spamming the start button......
- Replaying sets should not be a thing as Armada mention, the one who won , is under pressure of losing what they already achieved. Furthermore, it encourage the "losing player" to ask for a "replay". It is their fault for letting it happen or for not realizing it.
- The Hungrybox one , Mr.Wizard screwing players and not even addressing a proper apology.
- Well I guess what happen in Hungrybox in 2013, they gave it back to him in 2017 as a favor.
- Fortune been a scumbag and having bad sportsmanship.
- The 0.9 Smash 4 scenario pretty much killed Komirikiri smash career, he just got so fed up.
- MikeHaze with the Mario Party tactic in that money match.
Komo had better results after that match with Cloud and was one of the top players in Smash 4. He was so good that he could beat Captain Zack with Roy. He only quit because he wanted to focus on school
The komo situation is very different imo
There's a difference between something happening
You seeing it and not saying anything or having a suspicion that can only be seen once playing the game and seeing the launch rates at death %
Two wrongs don't make a right. Giving Hbox this one means that they now owe Sfat one. Then they'll owe whoever gets screwed over by poor rule implementation the next time, and so on.
Henry Returns I think that Armadas point about replaying sets should stand for the Evo 2017 Hbox case. If the players dont speak out about the violation of the rules, and the match is played, the match is counted.
The 2013 one is bad but it does not make the 2017 situation okay at all..... what about Sfat?
Besides even if you wanna compare it straight of, Hbox was still down in 2013 while he for sure should have been DQd in 2017.
With that taken into account he still could have lost both sets with a best case scenario being winning one (which he still did).
But yeah, 2 wrong things does not make 1 right, even less when different players are involved
if i was hbox, at next evo, every minute or so id ask "hey did the rules change?" just to annoy them
"Damn talk to him, son" what a brudder
Hbox recently talked about he and Crunch asked a TO for clarification and they OKed it
According to ZeRo he and one of the people he faced noticed that certain moves weren't killing which means this was a problem for probably the whole tournament and that the ethical decision was to replay everything, but it would put everything else massively behind schedule.
Armada's reaction videos are the best reaction videos. Goes into so much more depth then what you usually see he isn't simply watching it and saying one or two not so meaningful things.
I'm not one for reaction content usually but this is so much more than that
An unplugged controller is a forfeit, friendly reminder.
i believe that to change the launch rate in smash four you have to go into another part of the rules menu, similar to ultimate, so it is very likely it was changed intentionally
I'm not sure on Wii U, but on 3DS the option is on the normal rules menu
Wait at 13:06 that’s definitely Stumblebee in the background standing up with the Evo shirt and glasses.
In regards to the second video, I 100% agree with you. It's just like in tennis reviews, if you want to challenge a call you have to do it immediately, you can't play the point out and then challenge once you lose the point.
People also forget that ZeRo VS Dabuz, the set before Komo/Zack was played on 0.9 too. I'm guessing if they replayed the set then Dabuz would argue his set should be replayed too. IIRC D1 even starts reading a tweet that points this out and then he stops himself
Zero said the he was gonna replay it if they said them to do it but they went only for last game.
Dabuz vs who?
"He claims the knockback was at 0.9"
Armada: First time?
No I agree with the .9 shit because how are you supposed to know it’s on .9 when it’s been there on the set up for a while. It’s kinda like EVO, where you’re expected to change the rules every time. The whole set should’ve been replayed.
I really wanted to see the Hax vs Mewtwoking set where they have a disagreement about neutral starts
Why don’t we just turn off pause 🤷♂️
Most matches have Pause turned off
Nowadays it’s always disabled.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
"There's nothing in the rules saying I can't infinite chaingrab!"
"Yeah, and there's nothing in the rules saying I can't scream in your face whenever you do it!"
10:16 My friends and I have a rule in monopoly. If you land on someone's property, and they don't notice, you don't pay rent. Its to keep everyone engaged and to keep the game going a bit longer. If you don't notice someone pick a stage they won on, and try to do a take back, its too late, turn changed, you can't charge them rent anymore
mike haze screaming is how anyone feels inside when getting wobbled im crying so good
24:49 This is an example of something you can't bring up before the match begins. Theoretically he may have been able to say something earlier in the set, but then again he might have not been sure.
You wouldn't know to check before the set starts, but he still had 3 chances (in between each game) to check before losing. Fortunately, this controversy gave way to an expressed rule about checking game settings before going through a set, so if the TOs fuck something up, the player should now know to do everything they can to make sure it's fixed
scar was 100% at fault here cause he paused 2 times WHILE HAVING 2 STOCKS. what made me mad that day was that he also witch hunted leffen on twitter the same hour and never apologized afaik. the people's champ? more like the sour griefer if you ask me. rules are rules and leffen + ice was on the right by going with the rules. the moment the pauses happen you see leffen playing footsies vs sfat and that was a clear disruption. mistakes happen once but he paused twice! just imagine YOU are the player/victim of that, put aside usa vs europe and see it from a competetive point, let me guess you would have let it slip cause he's the people champ right?
Most people in the crowd hated Leffen for this and were on Scar's side. So he was indeed the PEOPLES champ.
If it was 4 random and unknown players, people would've said some shit along the lines of "Damn, that fucking blows, but rules are rules" instead of the childish behavior they actually pulled. I like all four of those players, but Scar and the crowd were childish af that day.
Man that last one, I would have definitely put that under harming your opponent some way by screaming in their ear. I've had that happen, that shit hurts.
The thing with .9 in that instance is that it only benefit Bayonetta. She can literally kill you at any % and the added weight only makes her combos harder to escape. The SDI for the ladders might've also been affected considerably.
On the HBox coaching thing, the rules say that there's no coaching outside of pools. Except from what I have been told Evo pools go into a new set of pools basically until you get to finals so it's very unclear where coaching is supposed to stop.
100% agree with Armada's thoughts on the no pausing rule as is. It definitely shouldn't be up to the individual players, that's horribly unfair.
Didn't know Scar was one of those "my country" guys. lol
what are those guys like?
@@Brandovichie never fun
@@firelifeblizzard8782 they are based
@@anasazilespider5574 based? based on what?
@@KevinsYeah on their country lmao
biggest controversy is you leaving in your prime comeback
I know leffen got a lot of hate for calling the pause, but imo he shouldn't have. Even though it was accidental, scar was pausing while ice and leffen were attempting to combo sfat and it disrupted them, and that's why the rule was put in place.
5:46 this is why I like leffen lmao
If you're wondering what Armada thinks about the Leffen vs Chu replay he made a video about it when it happened:
th-cam.com/video/Sv9JUWnb0FY/w-d-xo.html
The tldr of it was that he wouldn't have wanted to replay the set because it was vanilla Melee. If he won he would've DQ'd himself if they wanted a replay and if he lost he would've ran off stage for every stock.
The lesson I've learned is know the rules while you're playing and refuse to play before talking to a TO. Also, when you lose and didn't call a rule breaking situation out that's on you and the results should stand.
If you lose and need to replay you're the one who allowed it to happen and although you may win the replay it's unacceptable that your opponent needs to pay due to your mistake.
@Armada (i love u armada, i dont blame you for not agreeing with me cuz maybe you didnt consider the implications about the following topic) i legit think that if the damage/launch ratio being wrong gets noticed after a game, thats not necessarily the players fault and its a way bigger deal than the map/stage pick rules cuz it messes with the game in ways you arent supposed to get used to in practice, unlike map disadvantage, so i really really think that as long as the damage ratio gets noticed before its literally too late to replay, it should be replayed. imagine if a major grand finals was set to like 1.2 or 0.8 (or even 1.1 or 0.9 right) or some worse bullshit , and you notice right after game5 of the first set, it would kind of be ridiculous to not replay, especially if the person who won winners final ends up winning the first set in grand final (aka winning the grand final through winners bracket) on wrong dmg ratio, it would be completely fukin outrageous to not just replay the fucking set cmon bro you know im so goddam right. exception for lack of time left for the event: single match tiebreaker or whatever you wanna call it (or like if you have to do a replay of grand finals at a later date/event due to time constraint or whatever the fuck, competitive integrity is so important man, especially with cash prizes, just pay out 2nd place winnings to both grand finalists and give the rest to the winner once you can hold the delayed final, again, im so correct that it hurts)...
"Don't quote me on that" -armada
Wait, that's illegal!
I appreciate someone following the rules, they are there for a reason. Good on Leffen
Those were "new" when it happened. We hadn't today's mindset back then, so even if the decisions taken seems dumb for today you also have to think that in the hurry you can do bad choices. That doesn't mean we aren't allowed to say those were bad decisions, because they are.
The purpose of this video is to have documentation about what not to do and how to handle awkward situations.
AKA
Hindsight 20/20
I wished Armada would not show the part starting from 22:59 till 29:46
Honestly, the same stage thing is so confusing for me. It's the only rule that I forget about all the time, can't decide which side I'm on, and see nobody talk about.
My problem with the idea of not replaying at least something in the 0.9 launch rate situation is that you can’t really call it out because it is something super quick and affects every game. It’s different from stage ban because you have a very easy time knowing what stage you are allowed to go back to. If there was a very obvious indicator of the launch rate then it shouldn’t be replayed, but there isn’t it is hidden in the rules and can’t be identified easily
“Ranning behind” haha, i love u Armada
Well I bet I could tell you the next most controversial one 😔
So cringe how people think Leffen was wrong for the stock thing.
HE PAUSED MULTIPLE TIMES AND CAUSED THEM TO DO TEAM DAMAGE.
That's literally inarguable and I'm sure Scar regretted it tbh.
I feel like a 0.9 or modified knockback scenario should be an entire set replay. I agree with you when it comes to stage banning and the players needing to know the tournament rules. In that case you need to call it out before the match starts. But even an experienced top player may not immediately notice the knockback is modified, and it can only actually be verified after a match (in most case it will probably take numerous matches to even notice enough to check). In the komo-zack set it would be even more important, since 0.9 knockback would heavily influence Bayonetta's combos. If modified knockback is found to be on at any point during a set, it should be an immediate restart. That's my opinion, at least.
the sg fortune moment always gets me
21:45 I think in some kind of rule it should say that unsportsmanlike behavior should DQ'd
Some of the best reaction tech chases to the best reaction videos. Keep it up!
Hbox asked the TO if coaching was allowed they said yes then after the fact is was not allowed so the person doing the inspecting didn’t actually say anything you can see the TO standing by crunch
What was the “0.9” scenario armada was part of? I remember seeing something a while back about it, but I don’t remember who was involved or what happened
Silent spectre vs armada was played with that knockback and Armada ended up losing the set. If I remember this well it was the same tournament that armada ended up losing his final set to a non top 6 player for a long time being Amsah
"Well this is obviously not ok...
but it is funny" 🤣🤣🤣🤣
LMAO at scars hand going for instinctual hand shake only to be like oh fuck no
26:00 Is that Asmongold in the bottom right corner next to Armada?
Pause turned off should be a rule itself. So if a match has pause turned on and someone pauses the whole game should be played over as the settings were wrong from the start and the person who turned pause on again, if so, should be held responsible and DQd. I think even the person who brought/set up the set up should be held responsible if they never turned pause off. Scar obviously thought it was turned off before the set because it SHOULD be. That said as it is now it's up to the players to check the settings before the game so Scar unfortunately deserved to lose that stock.
Horrible idea lol. Anyone can mess with the settings mid tournament.
Just have UCF bake in no pause or hold pause to pause.
I 100% disagree with games being reset because there's no way in hell anyone would agree to drop any sort of stock lead because of an oversight, especially if no one noticed until well into a match. Hell, even if the match was even and was only a minute or two in, simply restarting the match could throw off one player or give the other player new confidence artificially. Just look at what happened during the Super Bowl between the Ravens and 49ers: half the lights in the stadium went out and it caused such a momentum shift that the 49ers almost won the game despite being down by quite a bit prior to the power outage.
I have PTSD, if Mike Haze did that shit to me in a mildly stressful tournament setting it would have turned on a very dangerous reaction. That shit is not funny.
Armada's lookin good with long hair!
I think that it's pretty fair to let the players decide to take the pause stock. I think the rule is to make sure that you can't pause on purpose to disrupt the rhythm of the game. So then it's up to the opposite player if they think that the pause gave them an unfair advantage or not. If the other player doesn't think so, then it's up to them. I feel like the current rule is pretty reasonable.
So what about social pressure that was brought up?
The TO/rule set should indeed be the deciding factor, not people potentially feel the need to accept something cause they will get tons of hate otherwise
The player in the situation at hand should never be the one to decide themself
I disagree because people have an inherent need to feel "liked" and that could cloud their judgement. It should be black and white enforced. To me it does not make sense to enforce a rule in one game and in another game just ignore it.
heavy heavy disagree at 2:00 Look at homie stocks, in torunament theres no pressure for you to homie stock even if theres a divide in the perception of people. Leaving it up to the players wouldnt cause much peer pressure.
Leffen only got hate for the pause incident because he's Leffen, if it was literally any other player no one would've cared.
I think pause/stock should not be the situation for doubles when pause is a necessary part of gameplay--at least unless a hack of the game allows for a different control for stock transfers. It's clearly a different situation than singles where pause serves to do nothing but interrupt.
No one:
MikeHaze: AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!
Your points of view are always on point Armada, i've followed the fgc in general since the days of mlg , wcg and bbb/evo. You would do a good commentator not just for melee.
I liked the vid the moment Armada disagreed with TKBreezy on his "Bodied" sign!
That was the right callout!
TK is wrong for using the bodied sign after Komo lost the runback, you shake hands after a good set and that was not a good set. You could clearly tell by komos body language that the sonic F throw should’ve killed.
so that first clip, scar paused twice and was it leffen who paused the 3rd time? if leffen was gunna enforce that pause rule someone should of made him do it as well after all he did pause
No because Scar was the one who interrupted the match.
@@SMFizzy well yeah doesnt matter that it was to enforce a rule leffen still paused he should be held to the same standard hes enforcing upon others
Can somebody refresh my memory on who the "5 Gods of Melee" were? Idk, but this vid just made me think of them, but I can't remember all of them.
Armada, M2king, Mango, Hbox, Plup
Not Plup, although he is insanely good. PPMD
Well that didn't age well
Fr tho lol
what happened?
@@cedricbateman4663 A bunch of sexual assault/rape allegations were made on a whole bunch of pro players in smash and kids were involved. Google it.
@@SeriousPersonnot to sound tasteless but how is that relevant. The compilation was specific tournament moments.
@@shady8045 thats not what the title says. My comment was in response to all the pedophilia allegations or w.e. I dont remember this comment was 4 years ago bro
I don't understand why scar was using borrowing stocks as an excuse when sfat was on his last stock anyway.
I want to do that now. Before every game... stop and ask if there have been any rule changes since the last game.
The other teammate must've paused second just to continue the game. But he was too late
i would always accidentally change it to coin match in the settings lol
Doesn't matter if both players violated the rules, hbox did it first, therefore the match was forfeit as soon as it happened. No further official game could take place. What a stupid ruling
I don’t know who did the setup, but in a doubles match where a start button has an honest to god purpose, why blame the player and not the to’s?
That’s a fucked up way to do things.
Launch rate and UFC are really hard to tell, especially when you're focused on your gameplay. I don't really think those games should stand. Not really same example as not remembering a no-coaching rule imo
How about this, if there was a smash anime and the main character was playing a villain that paused would he take the stock? hell no
the bayonetta vs Sonic aftermath scenario with the saltiness and stuff doesn't make sense.. cause bayonetta won before AND after the knockback being .9 .. so technically got 4 - 1
About what you said in the beginning Armada about no matter what if you pause you loose a stock. I have a question for that. In a tournament i was in. The HDMI cable was bad and our screen went black. I paused the game on instinct. This happened twice. We continued playing and the TO's said it was okay and we'll let this slide. Would you then say that my stock would need to be taken? I am genuinely curious about this because this has been bugging me for so long now. This was also before covid so this was an in person event. Not online. If anyone has any opinions about this. Please tell me