Yes I like a neat clean area and I always admire when other contractors leave and make it look like they were never there that's what always impresses me about them
Jeff just happened to be "surfing" through vids n came across ur outlet repair tips. Awesome !!! Dont have similar problem but acquired knowledge just in case. Dig ur COOL handy tool bag N dat CRAZY portable vac ! Relieved u placed a link for both ! Kudos for this upload. Anticipating ur next one. Peace
Thank you for all of your video contributions Jeff, I was unaware of the those spacers being available, glad I watched this one, this was off topic of what I usually watch from you (engineering observations).
Hey Jeff, I'm one of your 'neighbors' from the nearby community of Parkside - and I really like your vids. My townhouse, built in 1984, needs a replacementof an original grey plastic J box. I've got the wires disconnected from the receptacle, have an "old" J box on order from Amazon, but I'm wondering how to dismantle the older J box to pull it out from the wall, without breaking the wall and without the wires falling behind the wall. I've searched for and have found NO vids demonstating this. Please consider making a video on the subject. Since I've subscribed, I'll receive the notification when you (hiopefully) publish it. Many thanks, Jeff!
BTW - It would probably be easier if the receptacle would be at the end of the line, it would have fewer wires to deal with, but mine has 3 blk and 3 wht wires, plus ground wire ! Big mess, little space, wires coming into box from several ports.
I've come across this issue many times over the years when doing DIY outlets. But what I did was put tiny washers over a longer screw and then screwed the outlet snug against the box. It worked well for me.
Great tips Jeff! I like metal outlet cover instead of plastic and those spacers are an excellent idea,never knew they existed before your video,so thanks!
That was a great video. I just subscribed. You spoke very clearly and I love how though you used the extender ring and it didn’t quite work, I like how you showed us step by step to fix this. Because sometimes things do not go right with us home guys just trying to save $200 by not having an electrician fix this.
Really appreciate you Jeff. I bought a new build home and the builders refused to fix some of my outlets that had this exact issue. They said it's "normal". I'm so glad I came across your video and you also linked the parts!!! Look forward to more of your content!! Thanks again Jeff!!!
Great video! This just goes to show how sloppy the work was in the production of these homes. Over-sized dry wall hole, incorrectly mounted plastic outlet box (mounted at an angle and loose and not secure). The only way to positively secure loose outlets is to fix the dry wall and close up the gap opening so the two tabs on the receptacle have something to be mounted to. For a house in escrow, no contractor will do that type of repair but certainly worthwhile for the homeowner to do afterwards.
You mentioned another option was to use some kind of adhesive, but I couldn't understand the name. Could you share that? (Great video btw. Just subscribed to your channel.) I did a complete re-wire of my 120-year-old house. and the first outlets When I started, I cut outlet holes too big. Now I've got 5 loose outlets. I'll fix this weekend. Yay!!!
I have been using those handy spacers for years. The ones I get are the bright yellowish ones. I have used small washers, lengths of small diameter copper tubing and metal strapping that comes in steel and copper. It comes coiled in a box and has holes in it already, you can fold it up to make it thicker, there is some that comes in plastic material as well. You usually use it for hanging pipe, etc. Don't know why they do it but the boxes are supposed to be mounted out from the studding so it ends up being flush with the drywall/wallboard. But it gets mounted flush with the studding instead. That box being so loose and being installed wrong. So many like that I have just removed them and installed new. Yeah it's a lot more work but I always feel better about it afterward.
Yes, and the boxes that have the mounting bracket on them, should be positioned so that once mounted tot he stud, it ensures that the outlet will project out far enough to be flush with the front face of 1/2" thick drywall.
Just ran across and watched this video, i'm glad that you made this video, Jeff. I didn't know that those spacers and even that box extender were available. Thank you!
Thanks for the info and for showing more than one way to solve the problem. About to repair 2 outlets (yes I will turn off the power first😊) and replace the covers as well.
Hi Jeff my question to you is I need to replace my outlet plate I dont think I can cut the power I did discover that there is a type of screwdriver that is safe for energized equipement would you recommed I use it ( it it should insulate you against the voltage found in your home ? ) thoughts please thank you
I use screwdrivers from Milwaukee that are insulated screwdrivers that protect up to a 1000 V. But I still always turn off the power today outlet. It's never a good idea to play with it live
As an apprentice, one solution you're taught is to coil bare solid copper wire, around the 6/32 mounting screw ... helps maintain grounding continuity as well.
That's what I did in my house when the box is metal and set back a bit. It does improve grounding contact surface area, but the box must be metal and already grounded to the electrical panel. 14 gauge wire works well.
I always carry extra 14 gauge wire for this reason...After removing the top screw, I place the screw flat against the box and eyeball (measure) the distance between it and the dry wall...Let's say it's one quarter inch...I take a piece of 14 wire and wrap it around the shaft of a small screw driver, then cut 1/4 inch section and place it on the screw after feeding it back through the top hole...then I screw it all the way in and repeat for the bottom screw if necessary...The wire acts as a spacer or washer and the receptacle will not sink back into the wall...
Land the plane. Some good points for a rental property or mediocre presentation. Pull the grey box...Re wire with remodel box and tabs to secure to Sheetrock. I see how it works and will now not move in the wall. Not optimum but it did work. If the end user is good with it and you can live with it - Rock on!!!
I have been doing the wire shim for years. I remember discovering one on a job done by another electrician and I have been doing it ever since. Dislike running to the store or buying stuff if I can. :)
Thanks for the videos. The box is probably next to a stud. You could have toe nailed a couple screws inside the box and into the stud first, than used the outlet spacers. Even if the box was metal you could have predrilled holes for the screws. They also make nylon Wall plates that are considered unbreakable.
You can't toenail these, because these are thin metal studs. It's hard enough trying to screw in straight on into the stud, but coming at an angle is impossible. Maybe if it were wood life would be better
Yes we normally do that that also but in this case it's a metal stud and there's absolutely no way on heaven hell or earth you're going to get any screw to go through that plastic at the angle that you would have to get it into to get into the stud and then get it to spin in place an cut through the steel stud it's virtually impossible you have to be directly head on 90 degrees perpendicular to the stud to get a screw to penetrate or even a drill bit as well if you were going to try to do a pilot hole
@@jeffostroff I disagree...pre-drill the hole, then drive the screws into the metal stud. Easy Peasy. And I realize you were showing the box extender for demonstration purposes, but it really is not a good option for overcut boxes. Shims work great as long as the workbox is secured (won't move), and that you don't shim too much that it causes a safety issue by bringing the side wired connections beyond the workbox opening. With all that said...thanks for the video. It's always great to hear others opinions and suggestions.
Hi, using a non contact tester, I show both white and black as hot, also a large area of the wall from the box up 30" and to the side about 20" this happens to every box on this circuit, Also all along the ceiling to the light. The outlet's work fine, and test good for the correct wiring. I checked all neutral and hot appear to be correctly wired. Note they are using 4 wire cable to include the switch. Note the tester works correctly on other circuits, 3 wire, only the black shows hot and I have to get really close to the other circuits to see they are hot. I only have the issue with this one breaker.
They should not both be hot. Sometimes what happens when wiring switches is they will use the white wire to run from the switch up to a light for example or from the switch to an outlet but there should be like a black piece of tape on the end of it or something to indicate that it's not the neutral so cannot diagnose from the description but you may have to open all switch and outlets on the circuit and inspect the wiring. Does outlet test show correct wiring? My preference is use red wire for switches to eliminate confusion
@@jeffostroff the outlet test shows it's wired correctly, The both wire's may not be hot, when I place the non contact tester anywhere around the outlet and wall show it's hot, even 24" away from the outlet's. I will get a volt meter and actually check both wirer's for voltage. The positive non contact test no where near the outlet is puzzling to me.
@@jeffostroff I checked this again with another non contact tester, the white isn't hot but the wall area still shows as hot from the switch up the wall to the light. One suggestion is that since this shows up as the wooden wall and ceiling heading from the outlet to the light that there may be a nail through the wire causing leakage in this area. The first 3 outlet's in this series all teat good, No issues with leakage into the wall.
I own my own place but am temporarily renting another residence and the landlord doesn't have a maintenance and he has some loose outlets. I haven't took the covers off to see exactly why its moving but one of them I fear is a loose box itself. I know for a fact he wouldn't want to repair it. I personally would just cut a 12x16 section and use a palm nailer to set the nails back securely and maybe use some type of adhesive in the holes if the nails are a little loose still. Let it set and box the sides and patch the drywall. Is that really up to firecode just sandwiching the plate and box against the drywall? That may secure it but idk if that is up to code
Usually what we do is go to home depot and buy the blue remodel boxes, and what those are are plastic outlet boxes that have 2:00 a.m. on the back that once you stick it into the hole and the wall, that you use a screwdriver to start screwing this yet are screwing the screw until it pulls the arm tight against the back of the drywall you do this for both arms. Then you have a nice snug Box that is really the better way to do it.
Great video, love electrical how-tos. Next time bite the bullet and fix the box itself, or do what I really want to see, outlet box refit/upgrade. All my boxes are micro-sized and whenever I want to upgrade the outlets I struggle with fitting in the new GFCI or dual AFCI/GFCI (or just better quality) outlets. Thanks Jeff and slow down on the content! I haven't finished watching "engineering disaster mission impossible" yet! :-)
I wanted to put in new remodel boxes also, I might make my own mock up drywall and do a video on it anyway. Friends were 100% out of cash, could not afford even getting more boxes, and with this house, we don't know what other surprises awaited us inside the wall. Can't just remove the outlet box that is loose, as it is attached to metal studs before drywall goes up, so it is pinched into place behind drywall. Only way to remove old box is slice up the drywall, which now requires 3 layers of drywall mud, sanding, repainting, more time labor money, and we had our backs against the wall with timing and getting things done.
You could just pry out the old box and put in a blue plastic remodel box. Also since the top grounding hole is broken, change the outlet out too. I like to use the more flexible commercial plastic plates especially on uneven walls.
The problem is these are metal studs, so the outlet boxes are attached to the front of the studs, and the drywall goes on top, no way to pry them out, they have to be cut out. Several switches in their townhouse the drywall mud bump around the switches was so poorly feathered that the plastic plates crack from the stress of screwing them in under pressure over these humps.
No you can't easily slide that outlet in fact you can't slide it at all, because it is screwed into the metal studs and the screws are behind the drywall so you can't even get those screws to loosen the outlet and move it away that's why we use this black plastic Shim spacers to do the trick for us without having to be invasive or without having to remove the outlet or the box and also remember in some cases you wouldn't be able to move the outlet anyways because the electricians put just enough wire to get the outlet to exactly where it is and there's no slack for you to even be able to move the outlet box if you wanted to
I like how he showed a case that was not easy, required a lot of trial and error, and ended up greatly improved but not perfect. That's what I think most of us would probably deal with in a situation like this. Far too many DIY channels give easy examples that give the false impression to the average DIYer that the project is easy; only for them to hit a snag and not be able to solve it.
Yes and when you look at the videos on Lowe's and Home Depot those are filmed in like Disney World type perfect environments where nothing ever goes wrong in sort of la la land and every hole is cut perfectly square and every electrical outlet box was installed perfectly by people that actually knew what they were doing
Could you show how to keep the box from coming out of walk. House is almost 90 years an recently went to unplug a cord and whole inside came out. Inside is metal.
Are you saying the outlet box itself is loose? Is it blue plastic like this one with the 2 arms? www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-1-Gang-20-cu-in-Blue-PVC-Old-Work-Electrical-Switch-and-Outlet-Box-B120R/202077323 If it is like this one, get a Philips head screwdriver, find the Philips head screw on those 2 arms, and tighten it down.
Bought a house in Atlanta years ago where the inspector found no problems with the outlets. Go to plug vacuum in and the outlet goes in breaking the plate. The place had another layer of sheet rock added and all of the boxes were recessed. I spent hours removing plates and inserting those plastic spacers just to get all of the outlets usable. All home inspectors are not necessarily good inspectors. At least there were no outlet problems found when I sold the house.
Ok yes I've used the "RACO" PLATES and I've used the plastic shims that you've used here. But I will tell of yet another trick that I've used many times successfully and that is take a scrap piece of #12 AWG solid wire and twist it into a curlyQ works exceptionlly well with old 1½" thick plaster
Hey Jeff, just saw this video. I don't think any outlet installed in the 70's in Florida had the drywall around it cut right😂, I see this same problem all the time down here. Won't be publicly sharing my quick fix though😂😂😂
Really I'd replace the box in that situation. Not that hard with experience. With that being said I'm an experienced electrician so your method would be good enough for the average home owner.. Good video.
I got news for you every single outlet in that place should be replaced! Normally when I take over a foreclosed property I replace every switch and outlet whether they need it or not but this was a friend's house and they had no money whatsoever to pay for anything else
What about when the tubes inside the box are broken so screws won’t hold the outlet in place. Plastic box with busted screw receptacles. Is there a fix?
I use a homemade spacer. When you purchase wire shelving they give you plastic anchors for drywall. These anchors are white & they’re pretty long, I never use them, because I always drill into the studs to hołd shelves. I cut these to the length I need and these work perfectly. Thanks...Jim
But dont the metal coverings conduct electricity if sparks thereby increasing chances of getting shocked if touch the outside of plug? My plug outlet seems loose in sense that when plug appliance chord in it doesnt stay plugged in well and it sparks! It also melted 2 room heater chords! Does it need a new outlet? Thanks
Every outlet in my apartment is like this and it drives me nuts. I dont want to tell my LL cause the electric guys they call come in, punch holes or damage the the walls and just leave. They leave their mess for ME to clean up, and leave me to tell my LL that they punched holes and damaged the walls. No professionalism. You just gave me a great weekend project.
Hate to say it but you are wrong about using the "ears" on the outlet holding the outlet steady by being on the outside of the wall. In fact, you have probably noticed that the outer parts of the ears are scored, allowing them to be partially broken off. The pieces that are broken off become spacer washers. The electrical box was probably not mounted right to begin with, that's where the trouble began. Most often the box is held to the wall by nails or screws into the stud. It's kind of hard to drive the nails into the stud some more. I've found that sometimes after removing the outlet, can drill holes in the metal or plastic box and drive screws into the studs. Once this is done the outlet can be put back into the box. If it is resessed too much, those little washers can be used as spacers to set the proper amount of protrusion of the outlet. Once it's screws are tightened down, the outlet should be rigid. When the plate is installed, the outlet should be flush with the plate and not wiggle. I've been referring to boxes that are used pre-construction. If the boxes were installed post construction, that's a different story, the box still has to be tightened up somehow, for another day.
I used a single gang box in my kitchen that mounts to a stud on the short side because it had to be mounted horizontally (above counter on half wall). The box is super loose and obvious mostly on the opposite side from stud. Basically the edge on opposite of stud pulls out. Any tips for that?
It is hard to attach to the stud like that unless there is no drywall in the way. I use these homedepot.sjv.io/15gjkd PVC Old Work Electrical Outlet Box (1-Gang with tabs that clamp on the back of the drywall and you screw it down, best outlets ever.
You should still use the spark ring. Per the NEC 314.20 In Wall or Ceiling. In walls or ceilings with a surface of concrete, tile, gypsum, plaster, or other noncom- bustible material, boxes employing a flush-type cover or faceplate shall be installed so that the front edge of the box, plaster ring, extension ring, or listed extender will not be set back of the finished surface more than 6 mm (1⁄4in.).
You know that's a good point and too bad that the builders don't use adjustable boxes because we see this all of the time and the time and there are only a few cents more for a Box that you use a Philip's screwdriver to turn an adjustment screw that pulls the outlet Box flush with the front edge of the dry wall.
yes, works well with wood studs. With metal studs 100% impossible to get a screw to go in at an angle, it just walks around all over the metal stud. Can't even pilot hole drill at that angle.
I use small washers that I place over the screw and then tighten ... the washers wedge between the box and the back of the outlet. You can adjust the number to "time out" depth.
Yes those metal face plates are so nice and rigid that they don't budge and they'll never crack and snap on you like the cheap 99 cent plastic outlet plates that you buy at Home Depot and Lowe's
I will check all conductors in the box even after you cut the breaker off because I ran into a situation with three hot feeds off of different circuits
I turned all of my outlets 180degrees, with the grounds up. I was told to do this by a home inspector who said that it is safer in case a metallic object would happen to fall behind a plug that wasn't fully inserted. Seems like a lot of factors would have to align themselves before it could actually cause a problem, but it actually gave me a good excuse to replace all of the cheap plastic covers with metal ones.
Hi, I found your video while searching through a problem I'm having. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think this particular video addresses my issue. My outlet has two plugs like the one shown in this video. The top one, however, lets say I plug something in kind of heavy, like an electric toothbrush that has a box-shaped plug vs just a regular plug, it hangs most of the way out once I let go and eventually may fall out. I don't think it even stays in far enough to get a charge. This only happens to my top plug, so I've been stuck with basically only one usable plug on my 2-plug panel. The bottom one holds onto things ok, and again, it's just anything plugged in on top falls out. What's the fix for this one? Do you have a video on it as well or did this video cover that and I just didn't seem to catch onto that?
Your only fix here is to replace the receptacle because once it gets so loose like that that it can't hold items then it's time to replace it that probably has happened from people yanking on it over the years sometimes with vacuum cleaners and I've seen people do this where they've broken the prongs on the plug on their vacuum cleaner because they're always yanking them out of the wall
Drive a screw through one side of the box into the stud. Using needlenose pliars, bend the ears on the top in toward the box to take up the slack. Install new plate.
You can't drive a screw through the side of these boxes into these studs because the studs are thin gauge metal an at that angle from a narrow single gang box it's virtually impossible to even get a drill bit to go through I'm not sure head on into the metal it's a fool's errand even trying. You would have better luck pulling out the whole box after cutting open the drywall an installing a new box.
Foundation of the project is a secure box.... Plastic cover plate cracked because the box was not secure, appliance was plugged in And the receptical gave ground,.... the plastic couldn't support the inward force and done... Metal plate is a good option when box is not secure.
@@jeffostroff I like metal plates as well, but aren't they more expensive than the plastic? My point was,... if the box was secured properly in the first place, the original plate would still be in place, unbroken, ... and you would have not had to fix it.
I have an outlet that I recently upgraded to a GFCI, but the box was so old that it broke off of the stud entirely and is held in place with the rigidity of the wire running to it. I managed to get everything done and it works, but it is incredibly loose and since it's a brand new GFCI outlet it holds onto everything you plug into it like a vice grip which makes it easy to pull the whole outlet with the box out by about half an inch. This is obviously not good in a bathroom. What do I do in this instance?
Do what I have had to do many times. Cut into the drywall, install a new box the right way and patch up the drywall. OR...if you can get the old box out of the existing hole, go to home depo and buy a 1-Gang 20 cu. in. Blue PVC Old Work Electrical Switch and Outlet Box that you slip into the hole in the drywall, and it has 2 wings that flip out and you tighten it against the back side of the drywall by screwing it in. See it here: homedepot.sjv.io/e41yWg
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the video I used standard parts used by the pros every single day and in the end the repair worked and it worked very well nice and snug and tight and not moving anywhere
That's one way. If the box is against a stud, I'd drill a couple of holes in the side of the box and drive some wood screws through those holes into the stud to keep the box from moving around. If no stud, I'd replace the electrical box with a PVC PVC Old Work electrical box that clamps itself to the drywall.
If you alter a box by shooting screws through it youve altered the box and it wont pass code. Its a no biggie but the inspector already saw it so hes gonna check.
Yup, some guys are really cheap and have told me they fuse to spend the money! Really, $5 to outfit an entire room with them, and some case you really have no choice, especially with warped drywall.
Oh and someone made the comment about turning the reciptcale over with the ground upside down. I was taught that you only put them in upside down if you were A from Australia or B if your were making a dedicated run for from a generator.
Yes putting the outlets in upside down stemmed from the idea that if somebody should drop something metal down on a plug that isn't plugged in all the way, the metal would hit the ground lead first since it's upside down and nothing would happen but this is just such a far fetched scenario
Yes you probably shorted something with the multimeter, or maybe some wiring was done wrong in the outlet causing it to short. You should be able to replace the fuse.
Too many comments to go through....just wondering why (in case I missed it) when you put in the shims on the top screw, you didn't use the screw hole and went above it in the valley between the ears? Mistake?
We just moved into an old apartment. It is not the plate cover that is loose but the actual holes don't hold the plug firmly. I plugged in my phone charger, barely moved the cord and the plug fell out. I can barely touch it or pull on it and it falls right out. Why? What can I do about it?
Alison, unfortunately you have no choice, the outlet itself must be replaced, they are only $3 though! Make sure you upgrade the replaced outlet to conform to current NEC electrical codes and get a tamper proof outlet. If you are not comfortable dealing with the wiring, then call in an electrician or well qualified handy person.
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Good information...thumbs up simply for "Whoever put this outlet in was clearly drunk".
Do you have the link to the outlet covers? Thanks! Also, thoughts on these spacers?
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0897QVYFL
you put the top screw in the wrong hole.
@@nicholassheehan2070 However worked on the outlet before stripped the screws so I had to come in at it from an angle
I have a lot of these loose outlets and it drives me nuts
I like how you showed you cleaning up at the end... far too many electrians, plumbers, or just "handy men" just leave a mess. Great video!
Yes I like a neat clean area and I always admire when other contractors leave and make it look like they were never there that's what always impresses me about them
yeah many new home builder electricians leave pile of dust in the socket area.
Jeff just happened to be "surfing" through vids n came across ur outlet repair tips. Awesome !!! Dont have similar problem but acquired knowledge just in case. Dig ur COOL handy tool bag N dat CRAZY portable vac ! Relieved u placed a link for both ! Kudos for this upload. Anticipating ur next one. Peace
The previous person who used the long screws to fasten the outlet knew you were going to use shims so the long screw came in handy.👀👍🏽
Yup, it's funny they didn't know to use the shims, but people think you solve this problem just by getting long screws.
😂lol
Thanks!
Thanks for sharing the love Victor!
Thank you for all of your video contributions Jeff, I was unaware of the those spacers being available, glad I watched this one, this was off topic of what I usually watch from you (engineering observations).
Glad to help Kat!
Hey Jeff,
I'm one of your 'neighbors' from the nearby community of Parkside - and I really like your vids.
My townhouse, built in 1984, needs a replacementof an original grey plastic J box. I've got the wires disconnected from the receptacle, have an "old" J box on order from Amazon, but I'm wondering how to dismantle the older J box to pull it out from the wall, without breaking the wall and without the wires falling behind the wall. I've searched for and have found NO vids demonstating this.
Please consider making a video on the subject. Since I've subscribed, I'll receive the notification when you (hiopefully) publish it.
Many thanks, Jeff!
BTW - It would probably be easier if the receptacle would be at the end of the line, it would have fewer wires to deal with, but mine has 3 blk and 3 wht wires, plus ground wire ! Big mess, little space, wires coming into box from several ports.
Excellent explanation of the loose electrical outlet problems and how to correct them without replacing the box.
I've come across this issue many times over the years when doing DIY outlets. But what I did was put tiny washers over a longer screw and then screwed the outlet snug against the box. It worked well for me.
I opened up my neighbor's outlet and found a dozen 8-32 nuts the electrician used for spacers.
Great tips Jeff! I like metal outlet cover instead of plastic and those spacers are an excellent idea,never knew they existed before your video,so thanks!
Awesome, glad to help out!
That was a great video. I just subscribed. You spoke very clearly and I love how though you used the extender ring and it didn’t quite work, I like how you showed us step by step to fix this. Because sometimes things do not go right with us home guys just trying to save $200 by not having an electrician fix this.
Glad it was helpful!
Great video Jeff. I’ve ran across loose outlets before but didn’t know what you could do to fix them, till now. Thanks for the education....
You bet, hope it works out for you next time you encounter one!
Really appreciate you Jeff. I bought a new build home and the builders refused to fix some of my outlets that had this exact issue. They said it's "normal". I'm so glad I came across your video and you also linked the parts!!! Look forward to more of your content!! Thanks again Jeff!!!
Thanks for the tips, Appreciate the production quality too, great video and audio.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video! This just goes to show how sloppy the work was in the production of these homes. Over-sized dry wall hole, incorrectly mounted plastic outlet box (mounted at an angle and loose and not secure). The only way to positively secure loose outlets is to fix the dry wall and close up the gap opening so the two tabs on the receptacle have something to be mounted to. For a house in escrow, no contractor will do that type of repair but certainly worthwhile for the homeowner to do afterwards.
You are correct
You mentioned another option was to use some kind of adhesive, but I couldn't understand the name. Could you share that? (Great video btw. Just subscribed to your channel.) I did a complete re-wire of my 120-year-old house. and the first outlets When I started, I cut outlet holes too big. Now I've got 5 loose outlets. I'll fix this weekend. Yay!!!
I have been using those handy spacers for years. The ones I get are the bright yellowish ones. I have used small washers, lengths of small diameter copper tubing and metal strapping that comes in steel and copper. It comes coiled in a box and has holes in it already, you can fold it up to make it thicker, there is some that comes in plastic material as well. You usually use it for hanging pipe, etc.
Don't know why they do it but the boxes are supposed to be mounted out from the studding so it ends up being flush with the drywall/wallboard. But it gets mounted flush with the studding instead. That box being so loose and being installed wrong. So many like that I have just removed them and installed new. Yeah it's a lot more work but I always feel better about it afterward.
Yes, and the boxes that have the mounting bracket on them, should be positioned so that once mounted tot he stud, it ensures that the outlet will project out far enough to be flush with the front face of 1/2" thick drywall.
Just ran across and watched this video, i'm glad that you made this video, Jeff. I didn't know that those spacers and even that box extender were available. Thank you!
Those spacer combined with the metal plates are a godsend!
Loved this🥰 There can be so many diff issues that go wrong. Great tutorial. 😸
Thanks, I'm glad you liked it!
Thanks for the info and for showing more than one way to solve the problem. About to repair 2 outlets (yes I will turn off the power first😊) and replace the covers as well.
Glad I could help thanks for watching Joe
Just use jiffy clips.fix it right.
Thank you! The box extender trick worked great for me
You're welcome!
Thank you! And it wasn't my fault for yanking the plug!!
Thanks, I'm glad you liked it! Alma!
Very impressed! Learned something new! Thanks!!!!
Glad to hear it!
Hi Jeff my question to you is I need to replace my outlet plate I dont think I can cut the power I did discover that there is a type of screwdriver that is safe for energized equipement would you recommed I use it ( it it should insulate you against the voltage found in your home ? ) thoughts please thank you
I use screwdrivers from Milwaukee that are insulated screwdrivers that protect up to a 1000 V. But I still always turn off the power today outlet. It's never a good idea to play with it live
Great video, thanks. I usually run in 2 screws through the box and into the stud at an angle. Seems to work well.
works good on wood, but these are thin metal studs and you have to drill head on. Impossible task.
Thank you very much😊 I was able to do it all by myself🤗
You are welcome 😊
Very good information to solve the issue. I would suggest not to jump around in the video, stay focus and to the point. Thanks
Ok, thanks
That was bad ass , I appreciate you sharing this much info. THANK YOU
Thanks, I'm glad you liked it!
I was looking at spacers last week. What a coincidence.
Great minds think alike
Happy wholesaling!! Great video.
Dude, this video helped so much! Thank you!!!
Glad to hear it!
As an apprentice, one solution you're taught is to coil bare solid copper wire, around the 6/32 mounting screw ... helps maintain grounding continuity as well.
That's what I did in my house when the box is metal and set back a bit. It does improve grounding contact surface area, but the box must be metal and already grounded to the electrical panel. 14 gauge wire works well.
I always carry extra 14 gauge wire for this reason...After removing the top screw, I place the screw flat against the box and eyeball (measure) the distance between it and the dry wall...Let's say it's one quarter inch...I take a piece of 14 wire and wrap it around the shaft of a small screw driver, then cut 1/4 inch section and place it on the screw after feeding it back through the top hole...then I screw it all the way in and repeat for the bottom screw if necessary...The wire acts as a spacer or washer and the receptacle will not sink back into the wall...
that's a good idea, wire shim!
Land the plane. Some good points for a rental property or mediocre presentation. Pull the grey box...Re wire with remodel box and tabs to secure to Sheetrock. I see how it works and will now not move in the wall. Not optimum but it did work. If the end user is good with it and you can live with it - Rock on!!!
I like this. Way more solid approach than the spacers which will compress.
The shims are code approved and wire wrapped around the screw is not approved Learn to do it right the 1st time quit being a hack
I have been doing the wire shim for years. I remember discovering one on a job done by another electrician and I have been doing it ever since. Dislike running to the store or buying stuff if I can. :)
Thanks for the videos. The box is probably next to a stud. You could have toe nailed a couple screws inside the box and into the stud first, than used the outlet spacers. Even if the box was metal you could have predrilled holes for the screws. They also make nylon Wall plates that are considered unbreakable.
You can't toenail these, because these are thin metal studs. It's hard enough trying to screw in straight on into the stud, but coming at an angle is impossible. Maybe if it were wood life would be better
Nice tips. Also, I've put a screw through the box to secure it the stud.
Yes we normally do that that also but in this case it's a metal stud and there's absolutely no way on heaven hell or earth you're going to get any screw to go through that plastic at the angle that you would have to get it into to get into the stud and then get it to spin in place an cut through the steel stud it's virtually impossible you have to be directly head on 90 degrees perpendicular to the stud to get a screw to penetrate or even a drill bit as well if you were going to try to do a pilot hole
@@jeffostroff I disagree...pre-drill the hole, then drive the screws into the metal stud. Easy Peasy. And I realize you were showing the box extender for demonstration purposes, but it really is not a good option for overcut boxes. Shims work great as long as the workbox is secured (won't move), and that you don't shim too much that it causes a safety issue by bringing the side wired connections beyond the workbox opening. With all that said...thanks for the video. It's always great to hear others opinions and suggestions.
Hi, using a non contact tester, I show both white and black as hot, also a large area of the wall from the box up 30" and to the side about 20" this happens to every box on this circuit, Also all along the ceiling to the light. The outlet's work fine, and test good for the correct wiring. I checked all neutral and hot appear to be correctly wired. Note they are using 4 wire cable to include the switch. Note the tester works correctly on other circuits, 3 wire, only the black shows hot and I have to get really close to the other circuits to see they are hot. I only have the issue with this one breaker.
They should not both be hot. Sometimes what happens when wiring switches is they will use the white wire to run from the switch up to a light for example or from the switch to an outlet but there should be like a black piece of tape on the end of it or something to indicate that it's not the neutral so cannot diagnose from the description but you may have to open all switch and outlets on the circuit and inspect the wiring. Does outlet test show correct wiring? My preference is use red wire for switches to eliminate confusion
@@jeffostroff the outlet test shows it's wired correctly, The both wire's may not be hot, when I place the non contact tester anywhere around the outlet and wall show it's hot, even 24" away from the outlet's. I will get a volt meter and actually check both wirer's for voltage. The positive non contact test no where near the outlet is puzzling to me.
@@jeffostroff I checked this again with another non contact tester, the white isn't hot but the wall area still shows as hot from the switch up the wall to the light. One suggestion is that since this shows up as the wooden wall and ceiling heading from the outlet to the light that there may be a nail through the wire causing leakage in this area. The first 3 outlet's in this series all teat good, No issues with leakage into the wall.
Gotta say one last thing.....really do like the outtro music you have👍🏻👍🏻
THK Jeff! I have the same problem where I live, and now know how to fix it 😎.
Great deal Juan, you'll have it fixed in no time!
I own my own place but am temporarily renting another residence and the landlord doesn't have a maintenance and he has some loose outlets. I haven't took the covers off to see exactly why its moving but one of them I fear is a loose box itself. I know for a fact he wouldn't want to repair it. I personally would just cut a 12x16 section and use a palm nailer to set the nails back securely and maybe use some type of adhesive in the holes if the nails are a little loose still. Let it set and box the sides and patch the drywall. Is that really up to firecode just sandwiching the plate and box against the drywall? That may secure it but idk if that is up to code
Usually what we do is go to home depot and buy the blue remodel boxes, and what those are are plastic outlet boxes that have 2:00 a.m. on the back that once you stick it into the hole and the wall, that you use a screwdriver to start screwing this yet are screwing the screw until it pulls the arm tight against the back of the drywall you do this for both arms. Then you have a nice snug Box that is really the better way to do it.
Great video, love electrical how-tos. Next time bite the bullet and fix the box itself, or do what I really want to see, outlet box refit/upgrade. All my boxes are micro-sized and whenever I want to upgrade the outlets I struggle with fitting in the new GFCI or dual AFCI/GFCI (or just better quality) outlets. Thanks Jeff and slow down on the content! I haven't finished watching "engineering disaster mission impossible" yet! :-)
I wanted to put in new remodel boxes also, I might make my own mock up drywall and do a video on it anyway. Friends were 100% out of cash, could not afford even getting more boxes, and with this house, we don't know what other surprises awaited us inside the wall. Can't just remove the outlet box that is loose, as it is attached to metal studs before drywall goes up, so it is pinched into place behind drywall. Only way to remove old box is slice up the drywall, which now requires 3 layers of drywall mud, sanding, repainting, more time labor money, and we had our backs against the wall with timing and getting things done.
When you said "clearly drunk", I felt that. The dude who did my kitchen was a drunk and now here I am trying to fix this issue.
YEs, this happens too much down her ein FL
Thank you for video, I got what I needed
You're welcome!
Thank you Jeff for this video. This is one project I need to do.
You can do it!
You could just pry out the old box and put in a blue plastic remodel box. Also since the top grounding hole is broken, change the outlet out too. I like to use the more flexible commercial plastic plates especially on uneven walls.
The problem is these are metal studs, so the outlet boxes are attached to the front of the studs, and the drywall goes on top, no way to pry them out, they have to be cut out. Several switches in their townhouse the drywall mud bump around the switches was so poorly feathered that the plastic plates crack from the stress of screwing them in under pressure over these humps.
You can easily slide that outlet side ways through the arc shield with out cutting anything.
Thank you for your video
No you can't easily slide that outlet in fact you can't slide it at all, because it is screwed into the metal studs and the screws are behind the drywall so you can't even get those screws to loosen the outlet and move it away that's why we use this black plastic Shim spacers to do the trick for us without having to be invasive or without having to remove the outlet or the box and also remember in some cases you wouldn't be able to move the outlet anyways because the electricians put just enough wire to get the outlet to exactly where it is and there's no slack for you to even be able to move the outlet box if you wanted to
Outlet spacers made by ideal are sold at Home Depot work great
Yes those are the outlet spacers we used, bought them at Home Depot.
I like how he showed a case that was not easy, required a lot of trial and error, and ended up greatly improved but not perfect. That's what I think most of us would probably deal with in a situation like this. Far too many DIY channels give easy examples that give the false impression to the average DIYer that the project is easy; only for them to hit a snag and not be able to solve it.
Yes and when you look at the videos on Lowe's and Home Depot those are filmed in like Disney World type perfect environments where nothing ever goes wrong in sort of la la land and every hole is cut perfectly square and every electrical outlet box was installed perfectly by people that actually knew what they were doing
Could you show how to keep the box from coming out of walk. House is almost 90 years an recently went to unplug a cord and whole inside came out. Inside is metal.
Great video, I have a question my oulet is loose but inside it has 2 plastic arms how do I get it tight?
Thank you.
Are you saying the outlet box itself is loose? Is it blue plastic like this one with the 2 arms? www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-1-Gang-20-cu-in-Blue-PVC-Old-Work-Electrical-Switch-and-Outlet-Box-B120R/202077323 If it is like this one, get a Philips head screwdriver, find the Philips head screw on those 2 arms, and tighten it down.
@@jeffostroff thank you for replying is white but same principle, 2 flanges one on top one on bottom at opposite corners. Is thigh now.
Thank you.
the outlet spacers are a life saver
Yes, these are the DIYer's best shot at repairing this issue
👍🏼🗽Greetings from NYC. Thanks you just up'd my home improvement game . 😂
Thanks for watching and glad to help up your game!
Maybe I lack patience, but I feel like videos like these could be done in 3 minutes.
Good to know for next time, less talk more work
i have that problem right now old house im going to get me some spacers i just have to figure out how much to roll up thanks
You are on the right track for the fix!
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Glad it was helpful!
Bought a house in Atlanta years ago where the inspector found no problems with the outlets. Go to plug vacuum in and the outlet goes in breaking the plate. The place had another layer of sheet rock added and all of the boxes were recessed. I spent hours removing plates and inserting those plastic spacers just to get all of the outlets usable. All home inspectors are not necessarily good inspectors. At least there were no outlet problems found when I sold the house.
Thanks for sharing they should find stuff like that by testing outlets with a plug in outlet tester
Always good to learn something new thank you
Our pleasure!
Ok yes I've used the "RACO" PLATES and I've used the plastic shims that you've used here. But I will tell of yet another trick that I've used many times successfully and that is take a scrap piece of #12 AWG solid wire and twist it into a curlyQ works exceptionlly well with old 1½" thick plaster
Yes another electrician mentioned that yesterday he said he does that all the time as well
Didn’t know about metal plates or the spaces. Thanks!
Glad to help
Thanks jeff
Glad to help henry!
Saving money and time is one thing!! Do it right is doing it right!!!!!
yup
Hey Jeff, just saw this video. I don't think any outlet installed in the 70's in Florida had the drywall around it cut right😂, I see this same problem all the time down here. Won't be publicly sharing my quick fix though😂😂😂
You're the one that gets me is nobody ever covered up any outlets before they spray painted them so the wires always got painted
@@jeffostroff did you see that the electricians bag you linked to in this video is $35 @Amazon, normally around $70.
Really I'd replace the box in that situation. Not that hard with experience. With that being said I'm an experienced electrician so your method would be good enough for the average home owner.. Good video.
I got news for you every single outlet in that place should be replaced! Normally when I take over a foreclosed property I replace every switch and outlet whether they need it or not but this was a friend's house and they had no money whatsoever to pay for anything else
What about when the tubes inside the box are broken so screws won’t hold the outlet in place. Plastic box with busted screw receptacles. Is there a fix?
i used small metal washers ,may 3 or 4 for each screw..will now look into outlet spacers. thx
Good, the outlet spacers are much more effective, and I can't tell you how many washers or nuts I've seen at the bottom of outlets.
Thanks! This was great and exactly what I was looking for.
Glad it was helpful!
The wire spacer can use in the wall in the ceiling anywhere you need space an plus it insulates your long screwfrom touching any current in the boxes
I have tried all the solutions, but so far these plastic spacers work the best for me
I use a homemade spacer. When you purchase wire shelving they give you plastic anchors for drywall. These anchors are white & they’re pretty long, I never use them, because I always drill into the studs to hołd shelves. I cut these to the length I need and these work perfectly. Thanks...Jim
Great adaptation! Anything that shims that space will work, washers, nuts, plastic.
Great video. I learned a lot.
Glad it was helpful!
But dont the metal coverings conduct electricity if sparks thereby increasing chances of getting shocked if touch the outside of plug? My plug outlet seems loose in sense that when plug appliance chord in it doesnt stay plugged in well and it sparks! It also melted 2 room heater chords! Does it need a new outlet? Thanks
The screws that hold the plate onto the receptacle ground the plate. Also the plate is painted which ads insulation
Every outlet in my apartment is like this and it drives me nuts. I dont want to tell my LL cause the electric guys they call come in, punch holes or damage the the walls and just leave. They leave their mess for ME to clean up, and leave me to tell my LL that they punched holes and damaged the walls. No professionalism.
You just gave me a great weekend project.
You'll feel much better when you see how easy it was to fix it yourself.
Hate to say it but you are wrong about using the "ears" on the outlet holding the outlet steady by being on the outside of the wall. In fact, you have probably noticed that the outer parts of the ears are scored, allowing them to be partially broken off. The pieces that are broken off become spacer washers. The electrical box was probably not mounted right to begin with, that's where the trouble began. Most often the box is held to the wall by nails or screws into the stud. It's kind of hard to drive the nails into the stud some more. I've found that sometimes after removing the outlet, can drill holes in the metal or plastic box and drive screws into the studs. Once this is done the outlet can be put back into the box. If it is resessed too much, those little washers can be used as spacers to set the proper amount of protrusion of the outlet. Once it's screws are tightened down, the outlet should be rigid. When the plate is installed, the outlet should be flush with the plate and not wiggle.
I've been referring to boxes that are used pre-construction. If the boxes were installed post construction, that's a different story, the box still has to be tightened up somehow, for another day.
I used a single gang box in my kitchen that mounts to a stud on the short side because it had to be mounted horizontally (above counter on half wall). The box is super loose and obvious mostly on the opposite side from stud. Basically the edge on opposite of stud pulls out. Any tips for that?
It is hard to attach to the stud like that unless there is no drywall in the way. I use these homedepot.sjv.io/15gjkd PVC Old Work Electrical Outlet Box (1-Gang with tabs that clamp on the back of the drywall and you screw it down, best outlets ever.
You should still use the spark ring. Per the NEC 314.20 In Wall or Ceiling.
In walls or ceilings with a
surface of concrete, tile, gypsum, plaster, or other noncom-
bustible material, boxes employing a flush-type cover or
faceplate shall be installed so that the front edge of the box,
plaster ring, extension ring, or listed extender will not be
set back of the finished surface more than 6 mm (1⁄4in.).
You know that's a good point and too bad that the builders don't use adjustable boxes because we see this all of the time and the time and there are only a few cents more for a Box that you use a Philip's screwdriver to turn an adjustment screw that pulls the outlet Box flush with the front edge of the dry wall.
I also add a couple of bugle head screws through the side of the box, into the stud. That stiffens up the box.
yes, works well with wood studs. With metal studs 100% impossible to get a screw to go in at an angle, it just walks around all over the metal stud. Can't even pilot hole drill at that angle.
I use small washers that I place over the screw and then tighten ... the washers wedge between the box and the back of the outlet. You can adjust the number to "time out" depth.
Yes, I have seen others do that as well. I worked on some outlets where the previous guy used tiny hex nuts
The lose box is still lose? The extra large face plate is holding it (for now) ?
Thank you.
Yes those metal face plates are so nice and rigid that they don't budge and they'll never crack and snap on you like the cheap 99 cent plastic outlet plates that you buy at Home Depot and Lowe's
What is the link to the metal wall plate
I will check all conductors in the box even after you cut the breaker off because I ran into a situation with three hot feeds off of different circuits
Great video great tips, thanx
Glad it was helpful!
I turned all of my outlets 180degrees, with the grounds up. I was told to do this by a home inspector who said that it is safer in case a metallic object would happen to fall behind a plug that wasn't fully inserted. Seems like a lot of factors would have to align themselves before it could actually cause a problem, but it actually gave me a good excuse to replace all of the cheap plastic covers with metal ones.
yes we've seen a few people do this.
The upper receptacles ground plug had molded plastic cracked off. Is that ok per code?
I always prefer to have a fully intact outlet, so I would replace it
I hope you put that top screw in the correct hole on the receptacle.
Hi, I found your video while searching through a problem I'm having. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think this particular video addresses my issue.
My outlet has two plugs like the one shown in this video. The top one, however, lets say I plug something in kind of heavy, like an electric toothbrush that has a box-shaped plug vs just a regular plug, it hangs most of the way out once I let go and eventually may fall out. I don't think it even stays in far enough to get a charge. This only happens to my top plug, so I've been stuck with basically only one usable plug on my 2-plug panel. The bottom one holds onto things ok, and again, it's just anything plugged in on top falls out.
What's the fix for this one? Do you have a video on it as well or did this video cover that and I just didn't seem to catch onto that?
Your only fix here is to replace the receptacle because once it gets so loose like that that it can't hold items then it's time to replace it that probably has happened from people yanking on it over the years sometimes with vacuum cleaners and I've seen people do this where they've broken the prongs on the plug on their vacuum cleaner because they're always yanking them out of the wall
Drive a screw through one side of the box into the stud. Using needlenose pliars, bend the ears on the top in toward the box to take up the slack. Install new plate.
You can't drive a screw through the side of these boxes into these studs because the studs are thin gauge metal an at that angle from a narrow single gang box it's virtually impossible to even get a drill bit to go through I'm not sure head on into the metal it's a fool's errand even trying. You would have better luck pulling out the whole box after cutting open the drywall an installing a new box.
Thank you so much for your video!
You are so welcome! Hope it solves your loose outlets
Great video 👍
Glad you enjoyed it thanks for watching!
Hey Jeff where can you pick up those spacers for electrical outlet
Here it is, Outlet Spacers (5-Pack): amzn.to/2U7SlUe we had the link in the video description, along with the other tools we used in this video.
Hey Jeff thanks for that link to amazon for the spacers
Foundation of the project is a secure box.... Plastic cover plate cracked because the box was not secure, appliance was plugged in And the receptical gave ground,.... the plastic couldn't support the inward force and done... Metal plate is a good option when box is not secure.
I normally use metal plates in all my remodel projects
@@jeffostroff I like metal plates as well, but aren't they more expensive than the plastic? My point was,... if the box was secured properly in the first place, the original plate would still be in place, unbroken, ... and you would have not had to fix it.
I have an outlet that I recently upgraded to a GFCI, but the box was so old that it broke off of the stud entirely and is held in place with the rigidity of the wire running to it. I managed to get everything done and it works, but it is incredibly loose and since it's a brand new GFCI outlet it holds onto everything you plug into it like a vice grip which makes it easy to pull the whole outlet with the box out by about half an inch. This is obviously not good in a bathroom. What do I do in this instance?
Do what I have had to do many times. Cut into the drywall, install a new box the right way and patch up the drywall. OR...if you can get the old box out of the existing hole, go to home depo and buy a 1-Gang 20 cu. in. Blue PVC Old Work Electrical Switch and Outlet Box that you slip into the hole in the drywall, and it has 2 wings that flip out and you tighten it against the back side of the drywall by screwing it in. See it here: homedepot.sjv.io/e41yWg
@@jeffostroff Thank you you're amazing.
Metal Pipe collets (sleeves) over the 6/32 screws cut to size works permanently. Not into plastic spacers.
Yes those can work nice also
Just use jiffy clips. If the box moves. If box don't move just us two 6/32 screws behind the rec holds the rec out keeps from moving.
The video is so wrong.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the video I used standard parts used by the pros every single day and in the end the repair worked and it worked very well nice and snug and tight and not moving anywhere
That's one way. If the box is against a stud, I'd drill a couple of holes in the side of the box and drive some wood screws through those holes into the stud to keep the box from moving around. If no stud, I'd replace the electrical box with a PVC PVC Old Work electrical box that clamps itself to the drywall.
Yes we love to use those blue boxes with the drywall clamps
If you alter a box by shooting screws through it youve altered the box and it wont pass code. Its a no biggie but the inspector already saw it so hes gonna check.
I love metal plates. Totally worth the $1 price tag (retail).
Yup, some guys are really cheap and have told me they fuse to spend the money! Really, $5 to outfit an entire room with them, and some case you really have no choice, especially with warped drywall.
If connections go bad metal plate will conduct electricity to your body
Oh and someone made the comment about turning the reciptcale over with the ground upside down. I was taught that you only put them in upside down if you were A from Australia or B if your were making a dedicated run for from a generator.
Yes putting the outlets in upside down stemmed from the idea that if somebody should drop something metal down on a plug that isn't plugged in all the way, the metal would hit the ground lead first since it's upside down and nothing would happen but this is just such a far fetched scenario
I was trying to measure A with my multi meter the fuse blew up can I still replace it with a new socket ? Or is it a bad idea.
Yes you probably shorted something with the multimeter, or maybe some wiring was done wrong in the outlet causing it to short. You should be able to replace the fuse.
@@jeffostroff ooh thanks I appreciate it
Too many comments to go through....just wondering why (in case I missed it) when you put in the shims on the top screw, you didn't use the screw hole and went above it in the valley between the ears? Mistake?
thread in outlet box was stripped, so I needed more of an angle for the screw to grab
@@jeffostroff Gotcha. I didn't hear a reason in the video and being an electrician, I was like , what is he doing??? LOL
My 17 year old house had the same issues. What was the problem? People hired to build homes who were picking crops a week ago
Yes that seems about right
Those black rubber spacers are essential.
Yes that is what ships up the gap and limits the front to rear movement of the outlet.
We just moved into an old apartment. It is not the plate cover that is loose but the actual holes don't hold the plug firmly. I plugged in my phone charger, barely moved the cord and the plug fell out. I can barely touch it or pull on it and it falls right out. Why? What can I do about it?
Alison, unfortunately you have no choice, the outlet itself must be replaced, they are only $3 though! Make sure you upgrade the replaced outlet to conform to current NEC electrical codes and get a tamper proof outlet. If you are not comfortable dealing with the wiring, then call in an electrician or well qualified handy person.
I put small hex nuts..works for me