This is a great topic! it would be nice to have James go even more in-depth into how to develop a rehab protocol, what kinds of exercises he thinks are helpful, how many sets/reps per day/week, etc. Thanks!
Thank you very much for this video, when I started climbing last year I suffered immensely with elbow pain and I had to do this sort of... balancing act of still training but not pushing it too far. My climbing friends who got me into the sport did not suffer the same issue so I had no idea what or why I was having this problem. Over time I found holding a heavy weight in a standing bicep curl position and then slowly lowering it seemed to ease the pain and rehabilitate it to a point where it was no longer an issue but I had no idea why. Coming back to climbing after lockdown I have felt phantoms of that same issue, it is really reassuring and valuable to me to know this isn't just a me thing and that ecentric exercise is something that would naturally be considered to try and address it. Thanks a lot Lattice
i've suffered from both tennis and golfer's elbow on both of my elbows ... took almost 6 months off from lifting weights because of it ... still was having pain in my elbows .. started to do stretching exercises, massaging, and icing ... my elbows feel so much better and started lightly lifting again ... and now almost back to my normal routines and i continue to ice, stretch, and massage after lifting weights
I still come back to this video since elbow tendinopathy is my biggest weakness in climbing. I wish it was about an hour longer, more in depth, and included specific rehab guides for different stages of the injury. Hope you guys will dive in again!
This video came out just days after I got my first climbers elbow and I had no idea what it was. I was wondering why it started hurting and you gave me the answer. Perfect timing and thanks alot. Cheers!!
Most important thing to do about golfer's elbow is, of course, to not get it. How? One easy way to avoid it: always take the time to carefully warm up, whether that's for climbing, for strength training, for doing pull ups, for hang boarding. And warm up extra for bouldering. Seems obvious but so many people are terrible about warming up--it's not fun, it takes a while, and most of the time you skip it it doesn't matter. Until it does. So if you're in your street clothes out wherever, and you feel like showing your buds how easy it is to pull yourself up to some random ledge, maybe think twice.
I want to share my experience with golfers elbow as well. So first of all it very complex injury and requires a lot of exercise from different muscles groups. My first and I think most important advice is: find a good physio therapist and let him asses what is wrong with you, and what muscles you need to exercise to gain more power. Please, don't rely just only on youtube videos. Me personally I have to work out not just only elbow but also back, shoulder and chest muscles to overcome this pain. I took me almost 3 months to start feeling comfortable with my elbow again but it still requires lot of exercise and stretching. I still can't climb the level as I was was used to before but it's getting better. You just need to keep going and it will definitely get better
I would love to see a video about elbow pain that's caused by nerve compression, rather than tendon or muscle damage. How do tell one from the other? Is it always clear cut, or can nerve-related pain sometimes present like tendon pain? How can one correct technique/posture to prevent and/or rehab it? What type of rehab exercises should we (not) do? At what point is rehab no longer sufficient, and what can be done then? E.g., surgery?
> can nerve-related pain sometimes present like tendon pain? I'm not a doctor, your mileage may vary, but - yes. The GP diagnosed tendonitis in both my elbows, and it ended up being really stubborn even after physio work. It would also flare up in my wrist and down to some of my finger joints even without any load (for months), which is what eventually tipped off another physio that it was some kind of light nerve compression issue. An ultrasound of my right elbow and wrist confirmed that there was no visible damage there. Shoulder opening work helped in my case, as well as progressively loading these eccentric curls. Anyway, be sure to check with your physio! They can assess whether you have thoracic outlet syndrome, which can require surgery in the most acute cases.
@@alexaverbuch1 my physio is not a climbing specialist and didn't have specific homework to suggest, so I looked around. Couldn't get much out of (reverse)tyler twists, saw Dave McLeod advocating the eccentrics and tried it out with the smaller kettlebells at the gym. It 1-didn't hurt more after a set 2-seemed to help over time, so I stuck with them :)
Thank you for making this! It would be really interesting if you could make a similar video about common shoulder injuries. Such as shoulder impigement, rotatorcuff tears etc 👍🏻
Whenever I get any sort of pain in any sport I do. I always try to really think about myself biomechanically even though I'm no expert. It's very fascinating for me to the point i'll possibly pursue a career in the topic. Just so happens I was getting pain yesterday, close to the elbow coming from my tricep side. So thanks for the helpful video :)
Such an excellent video with great content. Is it possible to make another video where it shows the progression from the moment of the injury to the way back in the game? Thank you very much for all this remarkable work!
Hi there !! Great ample explanation of golfers elbow. I’m a Kittesurfer, and this is a comun issue. Specially when jumping… The motion mirrors the climbing movement 😳 !!! Lots of my Kiter friends do suffer from this!!! What work for me, “Arnica inyección” brought the inflation down, and now I stretch from shoulders down and tórax. Is getting Better 👍. Need to start strengthening. Any advice How ?….
this is brilliant, my fave talk on this so far, mostly because it totally aligns with my own experience and opinions (bit of cognitive bias there i guess haha) but stretching and eccentrics never really helped, sometimes i even realized were making things worse. However hangboarding and progressive controlled loading and strengthening other muscles in the chain solved problems I had for over a year in very short amount of time, both golfers and tennis elbow.
I'm not even a climber, I'm just a regular guy who tries to do pullups. But every time I get stronger, my golfer's elbow also gets worse, and I end up having to rest so long that I get weak again. The pain always seems to be sitting in the tendon going from the ring-finger and I haven't found any video talking about when the pain is isolated in this way... This video had some interesting points about the top part of the pullup doing the damage, but unfortunately no detail about how or why, and how to prevent or fix it...
A rehab series would be ideal: ive been plagued with PIP joints issues for years and tried a lot of different things which havent really helped. Atm it hurts to clench my fist with pain all round the pip joint
I would like to know more about common wrist issues and ways to prevent them from developing. Awesome video, however it would have been nice to explain tendinopathy more in depth concerning the breakdown of collagen fibers :) also using simple diagrams with views from inside the body would have helped as well. Keep up the good work =)
@James Dazhong Cook thanks, but I am still a bit confused about the "lotus" thing; I have found this guy though: tomrandallclimbing.wordpress.com/2012/11/23/golfers-elbow-a-possible-solution/ does it resembles this?
Agreed. They said progressive loading is likely the best fix but I have so many questions about what that means. Does that mean to start with low weight and increase over a number of sets to a max load? Or does it mean to do the 1st workout at low load, then increase the load each workout? Is pain good? From Dave McLeod's content I've learned that pain is good (to a point) and that's the path to healing because you are creating inflation in the tendon.
Could someone please post a link to the video of the stretching exercise that they are referring to (Lying on the stomach, stretching the muscles "above and below" (around 22:50 of this vid)?
Great video as usual! I suspect I developed golfers elbow after switching my gym climibng routine from endurance-lead climbing to powerful limit-bouldering and also changed my HB routine from high volume low intensity to small volume high intensity. I'm pretty sure this change in intensity is the cause for my current pain but Im not sure what should I do now: get back to my previous routine or continue the current one and just add the rehab exercises and stretches. Currently the pain is not really intense and it kind of fades away after a couple of days of rest, but I really want to address this right because I heard so many scarry stories about this issue.
The question is can you or should you continue climbing at lower intensity if your elbow hurts? Or should you stop right away to climb and rest for how long? Till the pain is gone?
It's completely personal to the individual. We've very rarely seen the best approach to be to stop completely - in most cases this is a poor choice. But..... we can't comment directly for you as we don't know your personal circumstances! In almost all cases with golfer's elbow it's a training load issue (remember this is a function of volume AND intensity)
maybe a dumb question but does this mean I am not supposed to rest? like i can still do my pull up exercises and stuff like that as long as its not causing the pain to be worse?
I experienced this first hand while in lockdown. I spent all of my time climbing outside for at least a good few months, and my elbow pain all but completely went away. As soon as the gyms re-opened, on my first session back inside I could feel my elbows flare up again. I think it has a lot to do with the indoor specific style of climbing in gyms. Climbing outside, even while bouldering, you're moving more delicately between bad holds, whereas indoors, you're aggressively shock loading your arms while latching really good holds with really good friction. Moral of the story is; climb outside more and do more pushups.
Great content. It would be even better if you could maybe link some of the corresponding research papers. E.g. in this case about 'eccentric excerises beeing outdated''.
I always thought the issue is a matter of imbalance between agonistic and antagonistic group of muscles. If one load the "climb" muscles a lot (and frequent) and forget about training antagonistic muscles, the pain starts to show up. At around 12:30 James shows exactly the exercises for antagonistic muscles. Has anything about that been mentioned? Correct if I am mistaken. Really enjoy these videos.
Awesome episode! Would love to see something similar for meniscus injuries. I have torn the menisci in both of my knees - underwent surgery for one of them and the other was not so bad. Most of the time it's ok now, but every now and then, if I do a lot of moves with heavy load on the knees, it gets a bit painful for a day or so. Also, I tend to avoid high risk moves - specifically heavy load on acutely bent knees.
Could you expand a bit of the importance of exercises where the elbow goes through bending? It's mentioned briefly but not explained. I've been doing eccentrics flexor wrist curls + rotation for the pronator teres, but it is actually biceps-heavy motions that flare it up, not any of the wrist stuff. Do other kind of curls have a place? (Can not find anything clear on the Web, my physio did recommend various curl variations that involve brachyalis and bracchioradialis )
Great video! Tom, you're a badass. Got a question. I've been dealing with golfers elbow on and off for about two years now. It all started with an overeager attempt at one arm pull ups. Since then, if I flex my forearm and rotate my hand or bicep curl with a weight above 20 pounds, there is very audible cracking and popping. Due to the current state of healthcare in the US, I cannot afford to see a doctor. Is this common? Should I be worried? No pain with the cracking, and some elbow pain has subsided with your stretching technique, flexbar exercises, ect... But cracking is loud as ever.
We’ve got more coming on the injury and physio stuff for sure... 😊
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For the German-speaking audience I can recommend checking out www.target10a.com/magazin/2016/11/20/behandlung-des-kletterellenbogens-golferellenbogen/ which gives a concise explanation and treatment options. And do read the comments! For me the only thing that really helped (but then within two weeks after I started it) was flossing (see 1st comment).
While this was interesting it was also very frustrating. It took a long time not to explain anything. What is a tendonopathy? or more specifically what is this tendonopathy? We didn't get an explanation. What causes the pain? What needs to be put right? There was a lot of talk about loading but no explanation or demonstration how. A (possibly) useful stretch was mentioned, but no demonstration. I think if you are going to do pieces like this you need to remember how detail obsessed climbers tend to be, especially when it comes to health and well being and most especially when it comes to injury and rehab. Please do a follow up (heavy on the detail).
Exactly my thoughts as well. Having watched dozens of simialr videos, 27 mins of this gave me no information :( (thank god I already knew about the stretch ahah). However, James mentioned that the bending of the elbow movement might be a pattern to rehab as well, which is seldom mentioned but very interesting I think. I would love a follow up video where all these points are actually explained in detail (I hope this video was not just a plug to go to their practices, that would be disappointing).
Yes, it would be great to see the actual moves and workouts; eccentric / concentric and isometric. I ve had this problem on my right elbow for 5 years now and would be grateful for this! :)
th-cam.com/video/_iMueqiCsVI/w-d-xo.html This takes a longer but I think He explains a lot of what you can actually do. I didnt see the whole video, i followed the timesstamps of one of the first comments: 1) Take ownership of the injury (8:10) 2) Be strong. Strengthen (condition) body, esp upstream arm/shoulder. (10:36) 3) Develop awareness. Note & listen to how your body feels. Adjust volume/intensity or session type accordingly. (13:27) 4) Don't stop moving. Maintain steady level of fitness/activity without typical 'Western' prolonged sedentary tenancies (17:25) 4.5) Difficulty of identifying causal factor. Sometimes change of routine/scenery can help. Trial and error methodology. (21:32) 5) Rest professionally. Top quality sleep, nutrition, reduce life stresses (22:56) 6)Respect your circadian rhythm. Increase quality and duration of sleep. (23:16) 7) Keep training. Possibly do more! (25:36) 8) Do heavy resistance training all the time! Incl typical eccentric wrist curls with heavy load (some pain might be required) and high frequency (daily!) and possibly more modern evidence of isometrics. (28:21) 9) If its not working, keep searching and try again however its tricky to decide timescale for each protocol. Lots of the data is weak/uncertain, such a nuanced issue. (34:24) 10) Tendons are made from what goes into your mouth. Nutrition. Collagen synthesis from Glycine, Proline and Vit C (comments on the recent hype train for this) but he relies on mostly eats whole foods (39:05)
Personally I think the quadratus lodborum is overlooked, the lats connect to the arm at the hummers and over laps this muscle. Thus meaning you cant fully extend through the lats into the shoulders and arm. the internal and external rotation with the bicep is flexed is going to cause so .uch tension on the muscles
I'll share my experience here as it may help others: I first got golfers elbow from increased bouldering intensity over a 1-month period where I was focused on V10 projects. I tried everything I could rehab the right elbow - stretching to increase mobility range, shoulder work, bicep work, eccentric forearm/bicep excercises, isometrics, 3 months rest, rolfing, icing, PT etc. It's hard to say what helped most, but I had very noticeable differences immediately with rolfing - but it's expensive. If you do that try to get some tips for myofascial release that you can do yourself at home. I think the mobility work and PT improved my body mechanics in general which facilitated healing. I adapted my climbing technique to direct more load toward the core muscles and less on the elbow which helped a lot. In this way, roof climbing is much easier than face climbing since you can hang from straight arms and work the core. I also found that rest didn't help at all for this injury since chronic tendon injuries do not heal without loading. Heavy loads are key. After 1 year I recovered my right arm. The clincher was a trip to a sport climbing area with long enduro pitches which I up-climbed and down-climbed every time all the way up to my on-sight grade, even down-cleaning routes on lead. I think the down-climbing helped because of the eccentric loading which helped to balance me out. I did deep massage on the forearm and stretching every climbing day in the evening. If I did not do this I would have pain the next day and would not be able to climb. The final thing that helped (maybe the most) was to wrap medical tape around my arm at the elbow. The way I do this is go right over the bony point where the elbow pain is and make the tape sorta loose when the arm is straight. This allows blood flow to be unrestricted most of the time. Then when the elbow bends and the tendon gets that compressive loading the tape gets really tight and supports the tendon. This helped me tremendously and is better than any gadget I could find on the market. After a few weeks I didn't need the tape anymore, and I was able to project hard routes once again. Relief! The bad part is that I increased my training significantly because I was so psyched - and I injured my left elbow creating a similar golfer's elbow on the left side while training some 1-arm pull-ups about 2 weeks after my right elbow had recovered. I took the same approach to rehab. However, for whatever reason that side has taken FOREVER to heal. I'm now 2.5 years into recovery and I think I'm finally getting through it, but wow. Once again the tape has been very helpful, as has down-climbing. The forearm eccentrics may have helped at first but now they don't seem to do anything. The thing that has helped me with the left side in the end is progressive loading which I do through bouldering. I've been bouldering easy grades a lot, up and down-climbing, up to the point of slight pain / discomfort in my elbow. I think it is helpful to get to the point of some pain. I try not to push through the pain too much though, and make sure to rest 2 days after until the pain has subsided. I found that I set myself back by 2 months of progress when I climbed hard back to back days and created too much pain. The better approach is to fully recover between sessions and then push it again. I took this approach up to v6, then weeks later v7, then weeks later v8, then weeks later v9, etc. V10 is my project grade and I'm now back to climbing at that level. I should also mention that I took a 6 month rest and it did nothing to help me. When I began climbing again the pain was the same as before. You have to climb through the pain in a progressive way, and supplement that with good rehab that targets the specific causes in your body - often shoulder issues and climbing technique issues but also mobility issues. I should also say that my right elbow has had no issues since the initial recovery. I just wanted to mention that in case you are 6 months into rehab and loosing hope... There is definitely hope to recover and make that recovery permanent, but it takes dedication and incredible patience. Hope this helps somebody.
Thank you for sharing your experience, that helps and gives an idea what to do. I have a similar experience, that resting doesn't help. Maybe it is the chronical memory in the brain if a pain lasts too long. Now I use a BRACCO arm strap and that mostly avoids pain during loading. Stretching also helps. I can load my elbow, but with loading palm up I have some pain. Normal easier climbing on holds makes no pain. .
@@brunodm1573 no I have not. Assuming you're talking about acupuncture, I think it could help facilitate healing at a certain stage. I asked a climbing specific PT about it, and he recommended that it could be useful but only after larger issues such as technique, flexibility, and proper biomechanics were addressed. It would not be the first stage or only treatment. There's another technique which uses a needle to rapidly poke a bunch of holes in the tendon to stimulate healing and recovery by creating an acute injury at the tendon. I asked an orthopedic doctor about that and he said it would likely work, but it has a 6 month healing time from the procedure itself, similar to surgery. He only recommended it after other options were tried. I also learned about a treatment that was developed in Spain where they do targeted electro therapy using a needle where they stimulate the tendon with an electrical impulse. I've heard anecdotally that it works quite well for climbers elbow (medial tendinopathy) and the recovery time is days, not months. It may take multiple sessions to fully heal. However, I never had a chance to try that procedure. If I could have made it happen when I was in Spain I would have definitely tried it. Here's an article that talks about what I understand to be the Spanish procedure: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4283658/
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I've had similar success (after nothing else helped) with flossing which seems to be what you are doing with the medical band. Check out e.g. th-cam.com/video/GZG_9O_mAgM/w-d-xo.html for a demonstration. I continue to regularly floss my elbows and it also helps with general forearm strength endurance, at least in my case.
Thanks for trying to save some people some time. These guys talked about almost everything else you could fit into 30 minutes, besides "how did I get this pain" and "how do I get rid of it". In their defense, there are 1000 videos on YT about this, all different, and they all might be useless. Could be what the doctor says "that hurts, stop doing that".
Thanks Lattice Training! This is quality content! Would it be possible to talk with James about shoulder problems and possible solutions in future videos? Im particularly interested in the climber‘s back (shoulder alignment).
Hi Lattice, thanks for the video. Well done on your run Tom. I just wanted to add something I've not heard people talk about and get your thoughts on it. I had golfers for a long time, saw a super climbing physio, did all the exercises, but it didn't get better. After a long time I realised that I was sleeping with the bad arm on full lock, hand under my head pretty much all night every night. When I trained myself to sleep with a straight arm and not stress the tendon things quickly got better, I continued with the exercises and luckily it hasn't returned. The physio said this makes sense and I wonder how many other climbers are sleeping in the same way, unknowingly stressing the tendon all night. This may be complete mumbo jumbo so it would be interesting to hear your thoughts....
Interesting video, but in terms of generalized advice for medial elbow tendinopathy: What would be the top three or five exercises James would recommend, with what kind of starting weight and what kind of progression?
@@LatticeTraining He had some general comments on exercises or approaches he's not very fond of or he considered outdated, so I thought there might be something he could actually recommend in general terms. I understand it'd be best to talk to him personally, but I'm probably not the only one living in a different country. It also seemed like not all professionals in the field seem to be as up to date as he is, so his opinion would be interesting as opposed to someone else who might be local but not as well informed. Looking forward to more content on recovery and body care for climbers!
I'd appreciate learning more about repetitive stress injuries, prevention, recognizing warning signs, home care, who to see for treatment, etc. Gotta say a bit bummed that his definition of tendinopathy was "when a tendon becomes tendinopathic." didn't clear much up for me. I've also heard the term tendinosis. Is that the same as tendinopathy? But really enjoyed this content, I've been desperately googling how to heal my achy arms, and its nice to get advice from a reliable source.
I'm no expert but tendinopathy is just a more general term. 'Pathia' is latin for sickness. Disorders with the suffix '-itis' refer to inflammation while '-osis' refers to an increased buildup of something. In the case of Tendinosis I believe it refers to an increase in certain collagen fibers.
I've heard it explained as a degeneration of the tendon. I think the crucial distinction is that it's not an inflammation so things used to treat inflammation are not relevant like it was once thought.
Hey there, like James I'm a Physio and a climber so I might be able to explain. Tendinopathy: a tendon provoking pain for whatever reason. This is more of a generalized term. Tendinitis: a tendon where there's an active inflammation present. This means all signs of inflammation: redness, heat, swelling, pain, and decreased function. Technically tendinitis could be considered tendinopathy but tendinopathy isn't necessarily tendinitis. "ITIS" = inflammation. Tendinosis: is a chronic version of tendinitis wherein the tendon tissue has adapted to chronic inflammation. If you suffer from this you might experience chronic pain and weakness. Treatment for a tendinosis is different, takes longer, and is often more painful than for tendinitis. Because you need to force the body to create healthy well-aligned tendon tissue again. Your physio can differ tendinitis from tendinosis based on the time you've had your complaints, how they've progressed, and how you've treated them or not. An ultrasound exam could also help to make a certain diagnosis. Hope this helps!
Thanks so much, this was great. We are fortunate to have specialists who are passionate about constantly learning the new and improved research. That being said, I officially have to make rehab changes! As much as I would like to fly to the UK for personal training, I would love if you all had suggestions or resources for other Physios and climbing rehab specialists in the USA? I live in the Midwest and finding professionals educated in climbing injuries is dang rare.
Thank you for sharing!! Another common climber inconvenience is finger numbness due to compressed medianus nerve? In this context, how do you best prevent and treat this trouble, by stretching forearm flexors or by using small foam roller or ball? May you give some comments. Thanks.
I've watched a lot of Golfer's Elbow content, and this is the first time I've heard anyone acknowledge flexing the elbow as a function of those tendons. I believe my current condition could be caused by either a one-off climbing session, or by my aerial circus practice, which recruits a lot of the same things (Much more so than the more classic causes of Golfer's elbow.) It's refreshing to hear golfer's elbow examined through a climbing lens Most of the pain to do purely with wrist flexion has now calmed down for me, and now the majority of pain comes when flexing the arm from a near-straight position, or a combination of that with wrist flexion (E.g. a full-range dumbell curl). If anyone has any advice/progressions for addressing that specific area of difficulty, I'd love to hear about it.
I got golfers elbow within my first 3 weeks of climbing haha. Bought a beast maker and trained on that twice a day along with climbing every other day. Complete and utter recipe for disaster! Luckily I must’ve caught it somewhat early and it went away within 10 days or so of complete rest. Safe to say I took it extremely easily when I returned!
One year of frustration experiencing this issue with one elbow and then the other. Finally, direct forearm extensor work -- very light reverse curls with slow eccentric -- fixed the problem for me. Ever since, I have done direct forearm work in a regular gym. I also use a light pair of dumbbells to warm-up my arms and shoulders prior to indoor climbing. So far so good!
I've had tennis elbow for years from climbing. Can't get rid of it and i've been stuck at v3ish ever since. Even having 3 months off wasn't enough to recover. Would love a video on that :D
This is a really good expert video on the subject. There is SO MUCH RUBBISH on TH-cam about golfer's elbow and it's great to see an expert with up to date knowledge on the injury and appropriate rehab.
More like this! Great video Any advice for turf toe as a result of climbing? had a foot pop on a small hold and hyper-extended my big toe. worried about loading it on small feet going forward.
Kinesio Taping the gulfers elbow gave me a lot oft support for climbing and training sessions alike. I felt it reduced the pain, supported the loading and made me more aware of too much strain applied to the elbow. I wasn’t sure if it was a thing - it would have been nice to hear your opinion on it!
Please do a video on lateral elbow tendinopathy and provide more details about appropriate progressive loading. Great content here. Thanks!
This is a great topic! it would be nice to have James go even more in-depth into how to develop a rehab protocol, what kinds of exercises he thinks are helpful, how many sets/reps per day/week, etc. Thanks!
Props for vid/sound caliber. Nice to see technical quality as well as content quality.
Thank you very much for this video, when I started climbing last year I suffered immensely with elbow pain and I had to do this sort of... balancing act of still training but not pushing it too far. My climbing friends who got me into the sport did not suffer the same issue so I had no idea what or why I was having this problem. Over time I found holding a heavy weight in a standing bicep curl position and then slowly lowering it seemed to ease the pain and rehabilitate it to a point where it was no longer an issue but I had no idea why.
Coming back to climbing after lockdown I have felt phantoms of that same issue, it is really reassuring and valuable to me to know this isn't just a me thing and that ecentric exercise is something that would naturally be considered to try and address it. Thanks a lot Lattice
i've suffered from both tennis and golfer's elbow on both of my elbows ... took almost 6 months off from lifting weights because of it ... still was having pain in my elbows .. started to do stretching exercises, massaging, and icing ... my elbows feel so much better and started lightly lifting again ... and now almost back to my normal routines and i continue to ice, stretch, and massage after lifting weights
I'm going through this now, been off the gym for about 2 months
I still come back to this video since elbow tendinopathy is my biggest weakness in climbing. I wish it was about an hour longer, more in depth, and included specific rehab guides for different stages of the injury. Hope you guys will dive in again!
This video came out just days after I got my first climbers elbow and I had no idea what it was. I was wondering why it started hurting and you gave me the answer. Perfect timing and thanks alot. Cheers!!
Well... that's the best video I've seen on golfer's elbow by a long way. Thanks very much.
Trips me out that you guys don't have more subs, content is always on point! More home training board videos and more stuff like this please!!
Yes, some very useful content here. Seems quite a complex subject, so some insight from a trained professional much appreciated. ☺️
Never had Golfer's Elbow but this was fascinating all the same.
Great stuff. James and the guys at SCC are ace. Helped me out loads.
Most important thing to do about golfer's elbow is, of course, to not get it. How? One easy way to avoid it: always take the time to carefully warm up, whether that's for climbing, for strength training, for doing pull ups, for hang boarding. And warm up extra for bouldering. Seems obvious but so many people are terrible about warming up--it's not fun, it takes a while, and most of the time you skip it it doesn't matter. Until it does. So if you're in your street clothes out wherever, and you feel like showing your buds how easy it is to pull yourself up to some random ledge, maybe think twice.
I dislocated my elbow and I have a similar condition, this video helps a lot.
What about the pain in the elbow on the other side? Could you make a video about that issue?
I want to share my experience with golfers elbow as well. So first of all it very complex injury and requires a lot of exercise from different muscles groups. My first and I think most important advice is: find a good physio therapist and let him asses what is wrong with you, and what muscles you need to exercise to gain more power. Please, don't rely just only on youtube videos. Me personally I have to work out not just only elbow but also back, shoulder and chest muscles to overcome this pain. I took me almost 3 months to start feeling comfortable with my elbow again but it still requires lot of exercise and stretching. I still can't climb the level as I was was used to before but it's getting better. You just need to keep going and it will definitely get better
I would love to see a video about elbow pain that's caused by nerve compression, rather than tendon or muscle damage.
How do tell one from the other? Is it always clear cut, or can nerve-related pain sometimes present like tendon pain?
How can one correct technique/posture to prevent and/or rehab it?
What type of rehab exercises should we (not) do?
At what point is rehab no longer sufficient, and what can be done then? E.g., surgery?
> can nerve-related pain sometimes present like tendon pain?
I'm not a doctor, your mileage may vary, but - yes. The GP diagnosed tendonitis in both my elbows, and it ended up being really stubborn even after physio work. It would also flare up in my wrist and down to some of my finger joints even without any load (for months), which is what eventually tipped off another physio that it was some kind of light nerve compression issue. An ultrasound of my right elbow and wrist confirmed that there was no visible damage there.
Shoulder opening work helped in my case, as well as progressively loading these eccentric curls.
Anyway, be sure to check with your physio! They can assess whether you have thoracic outlet syndrome, which can require surgery in the most acute cases.
thanks for sharing, @sl3600. in your case, why were eccentric curls included as part of the rehab?
@@alexaverbuch1 my physio is not a climbing specialist and didn't have specific homework to suggest, so I looked around. Couldn't get much out of (reverse)tyler twists, saw Dave McLeod advocating the eccentrics and tried it out with the smaller kettlebells at the gym. It 1-didn't hurt more after a set 2-seemed to help over time, so I stuck with them :)
Thanks for all that useful information,
could you talk about the wirst too?
Thank you for making this! It would be really interesting if you could make a similar video about common shoulder injuries. Such as shoulder impigement, rotatorcuff tears etc 👍🏻
massaging with a theragun helped me a lot
Whenever I get any sort of pain in any sport I do. I always try to really think about myself biomechanically even though I'm no expert. It's very fascinating for me to the point i'll possibly pursue a career in the topic. Just so happens I was getting pain yesterday, close to the elbow coming from my tricep side. So thanks for the helpful video :)
This is very usefull. Thanks for sharing it. Please keep up with other climbing related issued. Shoulder Problems, Brachialis, Knees, Fingers, etc
how does this vid rip on the most normal forearm stretch and then allude to a preferred stretch but not actually show it or link it anywhere..
Such an excellent video with great content. Is it possible to make another video where it shows the progression from the moment of the injury to the way back in the game? Thank you very much for all this remarkable work!
Hi there !!
Great ample explanation of golfers elbow.
I’m a Kittesurfer, and this is a comun issue. Specially when jumping… The motion mirrors the climbing movement 😳 !!!
Lots of my Kiter friends do suffer from this!!!
What work for me, “Arnica inyección” brought the inflation down, and now I stretch from shoulders down and tórax.
Is getting Better 👍. Need to start strengthening.
Any advice How ?….
this is brilliant, my fave talk on this so far, mostly because it totally aligns with my own experience and opinions (bit of cognitive bias there i guess haha) but stretching and eccentrics never really helped, sometimes i even realized were making things worse. However hangboarding and progressive controlled loading and strengthening other muscles in the chain solved problems I had for over a year in very short amount of time, both golfers and tennis elbow.
I'm not even a climber, I'm just a regular guy who tries to do pullups. But every time I get stronger, my golfer's elbow also gets worse, and I end up having to rest so long that I get weak again. The pain always seems to be sitting in the tendon going from the ring-finger and I haven't found any video talking about when the pain is isolated in this way... This video had some interesting points about the top part of the pullup doing the damage, but unfortunately no detail about how or why, and how to prevent or fix it...
Thank you 🙏🏼
Quality content ! I'd love to see finger injuries video in this same format.
A rehab series would be ideal: ive been plagued with PIP joints issues for years and tried a lot of different things which havent really helped. Atm it hurts to clench my fist with pain all round the pip joint
Great video nicely done ! Very helpful thanks guys keep em coming.
I would like to know more about common wrist issues and ways to prevent them from developing.
Awesome video, however it would have been nice to explain tendinopathy more in depth concerning the breakdown of collagen fibers :) also using simple diagrams with views from inside the body would have helped as well. Keep up the good work =)
I have actually used the lying on the stomach stretch I think it helps quite a lot
also releases pain
How this stretching look like? Any link?
@James Dazhong Cook thanks, but I am still a bit confused about the "lotus" thing; I have found this guy though: tomrandallclimbing.wordpress.com/2012/11/23/golfers-elbow-a-possible-solution/
does it resembles this?
Would love to see more details on progressive loading. And would I be able to do progressive loading exercises as prehab?
Agreed. They said progressive loading is likely the best fix but I have so many questions about what that means. Does that mean to start with low weight and increase over a number of sets to a max load? Or does it mean to do the 1st workout at low load, then increase the load each workout? Is pain good? From Dave McLeod's content I've learned that pain is good (to a point) and that's the path to healing because you are creating inflation in the tendon.
Thanks great content and timely for me, also Tom's more recent stretch video which I'm starting today in the van
Could someone please post a link to the video of the stretching exercise that they are referring to (Lying on the stomach, stretching the muscles "above and below" (around 22:50 of this vid)?
Great video as usual!
I suspect I developed golfers elbow after switching my gym climibng routine from endurance-lead climbing to powerful limit-bouldering and also changed my HB routine from high volume low intensity to small volume high intensity. I'm pretty sure this change in intensity is the cause for my current pain but Im not sure what should I do now: get back to my previous routine or continue the current one and just add the rehab exercises and stretches.
Currently the pain is not really intense and it kind of fades away after a couple of days of rest, but I really want to address this right because I heard so many scarry stories about this issue.
The question is can you or should you continue climbing at lower intensity if your elbow hurts? Or should you stop right away to climb and rest for how long? Till the pain is gone?
It's completely personal to the individual. We've very rarely seen the best approach to be to stop completely - in most cases this is a poor choice. But..... we can't comment directly for you as we don't know your personal circumstances! In almost all cases with golfer's elbow it's a training load issue (remember this is a function of volume AND intensity)
maybe a dumb question but does this mean I am not supposed to rest? like i can still do my pull up exercises and stuff like that as long as its not causing the pain to be worse?
I experienced this first hand while in lockdown. I spent all of my time climbing outside for at least a good few months, and my elbow pain all but completely went away. As soon as the gyms re-opened, on my first session back inside I could feel my elbows flare up again. I think it has a lot to do with the indoor specific style of climbing in gyms. Climbing outside, even while bouldering, you're moving more delicately between bad holds, whereas indoors, you're aggressively shock loading your arms while latching really good holds with really good friction. Moral of the story is; climb outside more and do more pushups.
good point. Downclimbing helps a lot too
Great content. It would be even better if you could maybe link some of the corresponding research papers. E.g. in this case about 'eccentric excerises beeing outdated''.
Is taping for pulley injuries helpful/what is good pulley recovery practice?
I always thought the issue is a matter of imbalance between agonistic and antagonistic group of muscles. If one load the "climb" muscles a lot (and frequent) and forget about training antagonistic muscles, the pain starts to show up. At around 12:30 James shows exactly the exercises for antagonistic muscles. Has anything about that been mentioned? Correct if I am mistaken.
Really enjoy these videos.
Awesome episode! Would love to see something similar for meniscus injuries. I have torn the menisci in both of my knees - underwent surgery for one of them and the other was not so bad. Most of the time it's ok now, but every now and then, if I do a lot of moves with heavy load on the knees, it gets a bit painful for a day or so. Also, I tend to avoid high risk moves - specifically heavy load on acutely bent knees.
Look up KneesOverToes guy. 👍
Excited for this episode! Checked my sub box at just the right time :)
I‘ve struggling with this right now - on both sides and enjoyed the video a lot! I guess I need few weeks off 😭
Steven Weisbach not so sure about that. Check out Tyler Nelson at Camp 4 Human performance. His rehab exercises are excellent
@@krankedjj thanks buddy. I'll have a look
Could you expand a bit of the importance of exercises where the elbow goes through bending? It's mentioned briefly but not explained. I've been doing eccentrics flexor wrist curls + rotation for the pronator teres, but it is actually biceps-heavy motions that flare it up, not any of the wrist stuff. Do other kind of curls have a place? (Can not find anything clear on the Web, my physio did recommend various curl variations that involve brachyalis and bracchioradialis )
Hey Tom, did you end up doing a video of your stretching technique?
What about resting ??? Could that help or keep climbing at low loads and increasing progressively is the way ?
Appreciate this!!
Great video! Tom, you're a badass.
Got a question. I've been dealing with golfers elbow on and off for about two years now. It all started with an overeager attempt at one arm pull ups. Since then, if I flex my forearm and rotate my hand or bicep curl with a weight above 20 pounds, there is very audible cracking and popping. Due to the current state of healthcare in the US, I cannot afford to see a doctor. Is this common? Should I be worried? No pain with the cracking, and some elbow pain has subsided with your stretching technique, flexbar exercises, ect... But cracking is loud as ever.
Do you have anything on climbing with shoulder injuries or just simple common shoulder issues?
We’ve got more coming on the injury and physio stuff for sure... 😊
For the German-speaking audience I can recommend checking out www.target10a.com/magazin/2016/11/20/behandlung-des-kletterellenbogens-golferellenbogen/ which gives a concise explanation and treatment options. And do read the comments! For me the only thing that really helped (but then within two weeks after I started it) was flossing (see 1st comment).
thanks much! helped :)
The body is very adaptive to change, just not rapid change. Lack of recover and proper progression contributes to acute injuries and chronic pain.
great vid
What was the stretch when you laid on your stomach or whatever??
So, a bit of everything and nothing in particular was said.
Well that’s an f I haven’t even been climbing that long and I have climbed elbow and now I need to do load my elbow tendon
I put tape on it
I actually know much more climbers with tennis elbow (including myyself) rather than golf elbow
30 minutes talking in what you can get explained in 2 minutes, I really don't see the value in this
Real interesting topic but it looks like a boring talkshow to me
blah blah blahhhhhhhhh!!!!!
A whole video telling you nothing . Well done.
While this was interesting it was also very frustrating. It took a long time not to explain anything. What is a tendonopathy? or more specifically what is this tendonopathy? We didn't get an explanation. What causes the pain? What needs to be put right? There was a lot of talk about loading but no explanation or demonstration how. A (possibly) useful stretch was mentioned, but no demonstration. I think if you are going to do pieces like this you need to remember how detail obsessed climbers tend to be, especially when it comes to health and well being and most especially when it comes to injury and rehab. Please do a follow up (heavy on the detail).
Got the exact same feeling. Especially how should I be doing the loading of the tendons?
Exactly my thoughts as well. Having watched dozens of simialr videos, 27 mins of this gave me no information :( (thank god I already knew about the stretch ahah). However, James mentioned that the bending of the elbow movement might be a pattern to rehab as well, which is seldom mentioned but very interesting I think. I would love a follow up video where all these points are actually explained in detail (I hope this video was not just a plug to go to their practices, that would be disappointing).
Yes, it would be great to see the actual moves and workouts; eccentric / concentric and isometric. I ve had this problem on my right elbow for 5 years now and would be grateful for this! :)
th-cam.com/video/_iMueqiCsVI/w-d-xo.html
This takes a longer but I think He explains a lot of what you can actually do.
I didnt see the whole video, i followed the timesstamps of one of the first comments:
1) Take ownership of the injury (8:10)
2) Be strong. Strengthen (condition) body, esp upstream arm/shoulder. (10:36)
3) Develop awareness. Note & listen to how your body feels. Adjust volume/intensity or session type accordingly. (13:27)
4) Don't stop moving. Maintain steady level of fitness/activity without typical 'Western' prolonged sedentary tenancies (17:25)
4.5) Difficulty of identifying causal factor. Sometimes change of routine/scenery can help. Trial and error methodology. (21:32)
5) Rest professionally. Top quality sleep, nutrition, reduce life stresses (22:56)
6)Respect your circadian rhythm. Increase quality and duration of sleep. (23:16)
7) Keep training. Possibly do more! (25:36)
8) Do heavy resistance training all the time! Incl typical eccentric wrist curls with heavy load (some pain might be required) and high frequency (daily!) and possibly more modern evidence of isometrics. (28:21)
9) If its not working, keep searching and try again however its tricky to decide timescale for each protocol. Lots of the data is weak/uncertain, such a nuanced issue. (34:24)
10) Tendons are made from what goes into your mouth. Nutrition. Collagen synthesis from Glycine, Proline and Vit C (comments on the recent hype train for this) but he relies on mostly eats whole foods (39:05)
Personally I think the quadratus lodborum is overlooked, the lats connect to the arm at the hummers and over laps this muscle. Thus meaning you cant fully extend through the lats into the shoulders and arm. the internal and external rotation with the bicep is flexed is going to cause so .uch tension on the muscles
I'll share my experience here as it may help others: I first got golfers elbow from increased bouldering intensity over a 1-month period where I was focused on V10 projects. I tried everything I could rehab the right elbow - stretching to increase mobility range, shoulder work, bicep work, eccentric forearm/bicep excercises, isometrics, 3 months rest, rolfing, icing, PT etc. It's hard to say what helped most, but I had very noticeable differences immediately with rolfing - but it's expensive. If you do that try to get some tips for myofascial release that you can do yourself at home. I think the mobility work and PT improved my body mechanics in general which facilitated healing. I adapted my climbing technique to direct more load toward the core muscles and less on the elbow which helped a lot. In this way, roof climbing is much easier than face climbing since you can hang from straight arms and work the core. I also found that rest didn't help at all for this injury since chronic tendon injuries do not heal without loading. Heavy loads are key.
After 1 year I recovered my right arm. The clincher was a trip to a sport climbing area with long enduro pitches which I up-climbed and down-climbed every time all the way up to my on-sight grade, even down-cleaning routes on lead. I think the down-climbing helped because of the eccentric loading which helped to balance me out. I did deep massage on the forearm and stretching every climbing day in the evening. If I did not do this I would have pain the next day and would not be able to climb. The final thing that helped (maybe the most) was to wrap medical tape around my arm at the elbow. The way I do this is go right over the bony point where the elbow pain is and make the tape sorta loose when the arm is straight. This allows blood flow to be unrestricted most of the time. Then when the elbow bends and the tendon gets that compressive loading the tape gets really tight and supports the tendon. This helped me tremendously and is better than any gadget I could find on the market. After a few weeks I didn't need the tape anymore, and I was able to project hard routes once again. Relief!
The bad part is that I increased my training significantly because I was so psyched - and I injured my left elbow creating a similar golfer's elbow on the left side while training some 1-arm pull-ups about 2 weeks after my right elbow had recovered. I took the same approach to rehab. However, for whatever reason that side has taken FOREVER to heal. I'm now 2.5 years into recovery and I think I'm finally getting through it, but wow. Once again the tape has been very helpful, as has down-climbing. The forearm eccentrics may have helped at first but now they don't seem to do anything. The thing that has helped me with the left side in the end is progressive loading which I do through bouldering. I've been bouldering easy grades a lot, up and down-climbing, up to the point of slight pain / discomfort in my elbow. I think it is helpful to get to the point of some pain. I try not to push through the pain too much though, and make sure to rest 2 days after until the pain has subsided. I found that I set myself back by 2 months of progress when I climbed hard back to back days and created too much pain. The better approach is to fully recover between sessions and then push it again. I took this approach up to v6, then weeks later v7, then weeks later v8, then weeks later v9, etc. V10 is my project grade and I'm now back to climbing at that level. I should also mention that I took a 6 month rest and it did nothing to help me. When I began climbing again the pain was the same as before. You have to climb through the pain in a progressive way, and supplement that with good rehab that targets the specific causes in your body - often shoulder issues and climbing technique issues but also mobility issues.
I should also say that my right elbow has had no issues since the initial recovery. I just wanted to mention that in case you are 6 months into rehab and loosing hope... There is definitely hope to recover and make that recovery permanent, but it takes dedication and incredible patience. Hope this helps somebody.
Thank you for sharing your experience, that helps and gives an idea what to do.
I have a similar experience, that resting doesn't help. Maybe it is the chronical memory in the brain if a pain lasts too long.
Now I use a BRACCO arm strap and that mostly avoids pain during loading. Stretching also helps.
I can load my elbow, but with loading palm up I have some pain. Normal easier climbing on holds makes no pain.
.
Thanks for taking the time to explain. It shows your level of patience! Your description is really helpful.
Have you ever tried dry needling?
@@brunodm1573 no I have not. Assuming you're talking about acupuncture, I think it could help facilitate healing at a certain stage. I asked a climbing specific PT about it, and he recommended that it could be useful but only after larger issues such as technique, flexibility, and proper biomechanics were addressed. It would not be the first stage or only treatment. There's another technique which uses a needle to rapidly poke a bunch of holes in the tendon to stimulate healing and recovery by creating an acute injury at the tendon. I asked an orthopedic doctor about that and he said it would likely work, but it has a 6 month healing time from the procedure itself, similar to surgery. He only recommended it after other options were tried. I also learned about a treatment that was developed in Spain where they do targeted electro therapy using a needle where they stimulate the tendon with an electrical impulse. I've heard anecdotally that it works quite well for climbers elbow (medial tendinopathy) and the recovery time is days, not months. It may take multiple sessions to fully heal. However, I never had a chance to try that procedure. If I could have made it happen when I was in Spain I would have definitely tried it. Here's an article that talks about what I understand to be the Spanish procedure: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4283658/
I've had similar success (after nothing else helped) with flossing which seems to be what you are doing with the medical band. Check out e.g. th-cam.com/video/GZG_9O_mAgM/w-d-xo.html for a demonstration. I continue to regularly floss my elbows and it also helps with general forearm strength endurance, at least in my case.
12:26: Isolated Wrist Curls & Top loaded Wrist Rotation
14:51 Isometric, Eccentric or Concentric exercises? Answer: Progressive Loading
16:22 Progressive Loading Example
Ty you're a boss
Hero
Thanks for trying to save some people some time. These guys talked about almost everything else you could fit into 30 minutes, besides "how did I get this pain" and "how do I get rid of it". In their defense, there are 1000 videos on YT about this, all different, and they all might be useless. Could be what the doctor says "that hurts, stop doing that".
Thanks Lattice Training! This is quality content!
Would it be possible to talk with James about shoulder problems and possible solutions in future videos? Im particularly interested in the climber‘s back (shoulder alignment).
Felix Hermes we’ll have a chat to him!
Very informative video, can you make one on the tennis elbow as well?
rohr zange we may do!
@@LatticeTraining Please do!!!
@@LatticeTraining I assume "we may do" is code for "we will, but we want to keep the suspense". If not then, yes, please do! :)
I would also be really interested in the difference between Tennis and golfer elbow and how to treat it :)
@@LatticeTraining would be really nice if you did it.
It seems to be common in climbers too now. Even more so in Boulderers
lot of talk to say nothing... jesus christ
Hi Lattice, thanks for the video. Well done on your run Tom.
I just wanted to add something I've not heard people talk about and get your thoughts on it. I had golfers for a long time, saw a super climbing physio, did all the exercises, but it didn't get better. After a long time I realised that I was sleeping with the bad arm on full lock, hand under my head pretty much all night every night. When I trained myself to sleep with a straight arm and not stress the tendon things quickly got better, I continued with the exercises and luckily it hasn't returned. The physio said this makes sense and I wonder how many other climbers are sleeping in the same way, unknowingly stressing the tendon all night. This may be complete mumbo jumbo so it would be interesting to hear your thoughts....
Definitely agree with this! I used to always sleep on my side and learning how to sleep on my back allowed my injury to heal overnight (haha).
Interesting stuff but I'm don't feel like there was any solution in the video. It seems like the solution is preventative.
Interesting video, but in terms of generalized advice for medial elbow tendinopathy: What would be the top three or five exercises James would recommend, with what kind of starting weight and what kind of progression?
Michael Markefka you’d need to talk to James about that. Always specific advice needs to be individualised 🤓
@@LatticeTraining He had some general comments on exercises or approaches he's not very fond of or he considered outdated, so I thought there might be something he could actually recommend in general terms. I understand it'd be best to talk to him personally, but I'm probably not the only one living in a different country. It also seemed like not all professionals in the field seem to be as up to date as he is, so his opinion would be interesting as opposed to someone else who might be local but not as well informed.
Looking forward to more content on recovery and body care for climbers!
Love the physio content, a series on common climbing ailments would be fantastic. Can never know to much 🙌
I'd appreciate learning more about repetitive stress injuries, prevention, recognizing warning signs, home care, who to see for treatment, etc.
Gotta say a bit bummed that his definition of tendinopathy was "when a tendon becomes tendinopathic." didn't clear much up for me. I've also heard the term tendinosis. Is that the same as tendinopathy?
But really enjoyed this content, I've been desperately googling how to heal my achy arms, and its nice to get advice from a reliable source.
I'm no expert but tendinopathy is just a more general term. 'Pathia' is latin for sickness. Disorders with the suffix '-itis' refer to inflammation while '-osis' refers to an increased buildup of something. In the case of Tendinosis I believe it refers to an increase in certain collagen fibers.
I've heard it explained as a degeneration of the tendon. I think the crucial distinction is that it's not an inflammation so things used to treat inflammation are not relevant like it was once thought.
Hey there, like James I'm a Physio and a climber so I might be able to explain.
Tendinopathy: a tendon provoking pain for whatever reason. This is more of a generalized term.
Tendinitis: a tendon where there's an active inflammation present. This means all signs of inflammation: redness, heat, swelling, pain, and decreased function. Technically tendinitis could be considered tendinopathy but tendinopathy isn't necessarily tendinitis. "ITIS" = inflammation.
Tendinosis: is a chronic version of tendinitis wherein the tendon tissue has adapted to chronic inflammation. If you suffer from this you might experience chronic pain and weakness. Treatment for a tendinosis is different, takes longer, and is often more painful than for tendinitis. Because you need to force the body to create healthy well-aligned tendon tissue again. Your physio can differ tendinitis from tendinosis based on the time you've had your complaints, how they've progressed, and how you've treated them or not. An ultrasound exam could also help to make a certain diagnosis.
Hope this helps!
Thanks so much, this was great. We are fortunate to have specialists who are passionate about constantly learning the new and improved research. That being said, I officially have to make rehab changes! As much as I would like to fly to the UK for personal training, I would love if you all had suggestions or resources for other Physios and climbing rehab specialists in the USA? I live in the Midwest and finding professionals educated in climbing injuries is dang rare.
He didn’t tell the actual excercises to do. Just talks about the common ones that aren’t as good
when I am bending the elbow I get a painful click, irriation, what does that mean?
It’s just right. I've been struggling with it for a long time
Thank you for sharing!! Another common climber inconvenience is finger numbness due to compressed medianus nerve? In this context, how do you best prevent and treat this trouble, by stretching forearm flexors or by using small foam roller or ball? May you give some comments. Thanks.
I also wanted to ask if anyone has experienced numbness and tingling in the little finger and ring finger after some time with the ulnaris problem
I've watched a lot of Golfer's Elbow content, and this is the first time I've heard anyone acknowledge flexing the elbow as a function of those tendons.
I believe my current condition could be caused by either a one-off climbing session, or by my aerial circus practice, which recruits a lot of the same things (Much more so than the more classic causes of Golfer's elbow.) It's refreshing to hear golfer's elbow examined through a climbing lens
Most of the pain to do purely with wrist flexion has now calmed down for me, and now the majority of pain comes when flexing the arm from a near-straight position, or a combination of that with wrist flexion (E.g. a full-range dumbell curl). If anyone has any advice/progressions for addressing that specific area of difficulty, I'd love to hear about it.
So what are the preventative solutions???? I feel like I just watched a casual convo with no real advice.
I got golfers elbow within my first 3 weeks of climbing haha. Bought a beast maker and trained on that twice a day along with climbing every other day.
Complete and utter recipe for disaster! Luckily I must’ve caught it somewhat early and it went away within 10 days or so of complete rest. Safe to say I took it extremely easily when I returned!
Great video I have actually suffered with this for a while
How about a video how to achieve that perfect bronze sun tan Tom Randall has.
One year of frustration experiencing this issue with one elbow and then the other. Finally, direct forearm extensor work -- very light reverse curls with slow eccentric -- fixed the problem for me. Ever since, I have done direct forearm work in a regular gym. I also use a light pair of dumbbells to warm-up my arms and shoulders prior to indoor climbing. So far so good!
I've had tennis elbow for years from climbing. Can't get rid of it and i've been stuck at v3ish ever since. Even having 3 months off wasn't enough to recover. Would love a video on that :D
Would love to know more about Cubital Tunnel Syndrome as compared to Golfers Elbow. I hope you read this!!!
Is there a golfers knee injury? I feel the same symptoms for my knee and my doctor had a hard time diagnosing this
This is a really good expert video on the subject. There is SO MUCH RUBBISH on TH-cam about golfer's elbow and it's great to see an expert with up to date knowledge on the injury and appropriate rehab.
More like this! Great video
Any advice for turf toe as a result of climbing? had a foot pop on a small hold and hyper-extended my big toe. worried about loading it on small feet going forward.
Really enjoyed that video! More details regarding that topic would be really appreciated!!
Kinesio Taping the gulfers elbow gave me a lot oft support for climbing and training sessions alike. I felt it reduced the pain, supported the loading and made me more aware of too much strain applied to the elbow.
I wasn’t sure if it was a thing - it would have been nice to hear your opinion on it!
When should I begin to load the elbow ? Worried it will make it worse
could stretching help a misdiagnosed nerve pinch?
Face pull + arched pull ups, if your shoulder is not alined.
Unfortunatelly, not very usefull video.
How to load