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If botting wasnt such a massive problem in classic I feel like GDKP would be a very fair way of handing out loot. Sadly I cant be fine with someone ''earning'' an item if they acquired the gold through botting or even buying botted gold. Lets be real here, most people that have the gold to pay these ridiculous prices probably didnt earn it in a fair way.
Yup. Someone who's got 10,000g they earned legitimately has put in the work. They've done gathering, crafting or more dailies then I can imagine ever doing. They've probably put in as much or more work then many raiders ever have, so getting items with that gold isn't an offensive concept. They've paid their dues, one way or another. But with the botting? Its not legit. At all. Doesn't matter if you were the one botting or if you bought the gold - you didn't truly earn that. Which is what GDKP's are full of - botted and bought gold. So I won't touch them with a barge pole on either end - I could be a pumper and get paid, but I'd be just another part of the problem if I did.
The fact that I could spend my entire day of playing every day doing the best possible gold farming methods, and still not be able to keep up with people who just bought gold was really disheartening
Thats where you're wrong, I personally know at least 20-30 people that have started off as carries, got many characters to attend these raids with as carries, got mad gold for said raids and can now afford to buy an item for tens of thousands of gold on a fresh character because they've earned that gold. Not saying you're completely wrong, just saying theres another side to it.
@@mikeyrajcevski2624 You seriously just said that with a straight face? You know all these people who "earned" gold as a carry and then spent that gold on a fresh character earned "mad gold" that was spent by someone who bought botted gold. The circle goes all the way around and there's no point where you can say you participated and didn't touch something dirty at some point. TLDR : That earned mad gold is still bought gold. The fact that it changed hands means literally nothing.
@@mikea.6696 still doesnt matter , bots just raise inflation so if u work on a proffesion you would make the same amount of gold as u wouldve made without the bots(gold x inflation), only problem is if you are raw farming gold so whatever
Original vanilla WoW, I remember how cool it was to see someone in full T1 or T2 in Ironforge, then finally after working my way up through a 40man raid team I had my own Giantstalker mixed with Dragonstalker set with Rhok'/Lok'delar and I felt like a true baller. There was nothing like that since those days for me, but I only played original vanilla through WotLK. I'm glad I never got into a GDKP hustle raiding milieu.
I remember that too. I remember when I just stared at a full T1 geared hunter with Rhok’Ledar and Lok’Ledar in Auberdine when I was level 16 and I said hello and he replied hello to me and I was excited!
I remember having the AQ mixed stats set on my druid along with the other feral pieces from AQ. Along with the zg raptor. Looked so good. And was so powerful in PvP. Got em again in Classic. Still nothing that look as good as that set on a tauren.
The bossfights for the T1-T2 sets in vanilla were a way easier task than clearing a raid on mythic difficulty prenerf. Vanilla was easy,but the players were worse, and u had a lot less information (hundreds of wow sites, youtube videos, twitch streams etc) than nowadays.
So true, it sucks the soul out of the game and everything now has a money value behind it. Yes we pay for a service for entertainment to ActiBlizz but when that entertainment turns into a bank investors as the focus vs just enjoying the game, same sad result, not a game anymore.
When we talk about what killed MMO's (particularly WoW) we talk about many different things, but very few (if any) people ever mention the biggest thing that killed MMO's (and WoW) - the players. The players did absolutely everything they could to bypass as much of the game as possible, to skip it all, and just get right to the very final part.
It was the creators job to not let the players ruin the game and they failed. Players will always try to optimize and min max, as much as I hate it and I conciously avoid it myself nowadays, it's a natural behavior. In fact we strive to be better than we were and than others in many things and gaming isn't different. What WOW needed was a serious company behind it to understand this and to plant a strong foot in the ground as to not allow the playerbase to break the game. Things like nerfing leveling services through dungeon runs, putting in place serious anti botting systems and imho even disabling trading of dropped loot, gold or both into dungeons as to avoid or minimize GDKP's. But alas they didn't and WOW became a dumpster fire.
Which is just a stunning display of mental illness. Because endgame comprises barely a single digit percent of vanilla WoW's content. Players rushed through 96% of the game to just...sit around and wait to do the rest of the 4% lol. And THEN they complain about how boring it is. "Just spam the same skill over and over again WTF". I swear MMO culture needs to be studied by psychologists
@@gabzsy4924 Social engineering is certainly a thing. But there's only so much devs can do when the entire gaming industry encourages this type of cancerous behaviour nowadays.
This also killed TBC before it was released again it was doomed. I raided into Naxx at 60 in OG, my eyes were more open to the treadmill as I played into 70, and I really found not raiding to be a great value for the time spent vs what raids I seen an the terrible behavior or raiders at the time. The heroics done below raid gear levels were fun and there were a ton of them.
@@gabzsy4924 I think the problem was the creators doing this to the detriment of the average player. Such as running a buddy through SM for 1-2 levels to help push past a questing lull is now not doable. Instead the casual player just quits at 34 or w/e.
As someone who's played a hunter class as my main for over 10 years now, seeing a warrior walk away with a legendary bow grinds my gears. And he probably did it for the flex and nothing more. Just because he could due to how much gold he had. Probably bought it all too.
I did a few GDKP. I hated it. It feels like I'm part of a big crime ring helping obviously TOS breaking accounts get geared, only to be sold off or to pretend they earned it all. Wasn't worth the gold at the end and unless you also buy gold you'll never get an item at a reasonable price. I saw blues in ZG and AQ20 break 4 digits.
For me I think gold received from wow tokens should be 'black gold' that can only be spent on vendors and not be tradeable to players or used on the auction house. (Crafting things to sell would be the workaround, like jewel panthers) And people paying to get carried should also be actioned similar to piloting. They didn't earn those mounts or gear, they just sat there and was dead for every fight. (however would be fine if no gold was transferred)
I also did some GDKPs in each instance of classic, but found the raid lead teams usually were pretty toxic. I'm a healer and there is rarely much for me to mess up, so I was never the target, but again and again, GDKP leads were massive assholes for the smallest of mistakes (unless of course someone was carrying a lot of gold). Hypocrites as well, since they would penalize others' cut for making mistakes, but not their own lead team if they messed up. It attracts the kind of person that lives WoW and defines themselves through it, often not a fun environment to raid in.
The second big problem of the current prevalence of GDKPs, besides gold buying, is their inaccessibility to new players. Someone who joined the game in a later phase of an expansion and just hit level cap literally cannot get into a GDKP, without gold buying. You obviously cannot join as a booster, as you don't have any items yet, but if you want to join as a buyer, you need to prove beforehand that you have thousands, if not tens of thousands of gold that you could spend. Which is almost impossible to acquire in any reasonable time, outside of GDKPs. Now all of this would not be so bad if people could just go to SR runs instead. But while I feel like the current wrath phase is a bit better in this regard, in the later vanilla classic phases and in pretty much all of TBC, those were pretty much non-existent. I can understand the frustration that many, many people voiced in forums, on reddit and in in-game chat, that once they hit 70 in TBC, the game became a toxic, gatekeeping mess. As it was literally impossible for a fresh 70 in dungeon blues to get into any pug run. Even most guilds weren't running alt runs of the previous raid tiers, as it was way more lucrative to just make a guild-organized GDKP with half guild and half pugs with fat wallets. I don't mind GDKP as a concept. It's not for me, as I, too, very much subscribe to 'farm gold for raiding, not raid to farm gold'. But I do very much mind how prevalent it has become. I genuinely hope that the changes to how you can acquire the previous tier's raid loot, that blizzard is planning, are going to make GDKPs less appealing to people. I think they should have their place, but next to SR runs, not instead of them.
Then don't join GDKP runs if you can't. There's plenty of regular runs going on. It's like trying to get into a billionaires club with 5 bucks in your pocket and greasy shirt from your work at McDonalds.
Oh cmon, get 10k and get into on gdkp naxx and you are well geared. I stay around the 10k and dont want the guild drama shit again for the 3 time. I do 1 25 gdkp run every second week or something like that and never bought a single gold for realmoney in classic. Ppl will buy gold even without Gdkp like it was 15 years ago
@@dsaweaa883 So, imagine you just join wow, because all your friends tell you it's amazing, and you do all the leveling and have a great time. Now you hit 80 and you really want to raid. And the first thing people tell you to do is 'just get 10.000 gold first'? Ofc it is doable if you've played classic for years and have a healthy bank, but my point is about new players.
When I did GDKP raids back in Wrath the regulars would vote and bring in a couple of people for carries. That way some newbies could get their gold up and use it next week.
I never even heard of GDKP til classic, I had no idea it was going on during the original, though I do remember hearing a few mentions here and there of raid loot being auctioned but I neve really thought anything of it, figured it was just isolated occurrances over the really valuable stuff. It really calls into question how so many complain about goldselling/farming bots all over the place when the same idiots are obviously buying gold to pay for these exorbitant GDKP bids. Of course classic's infested with bots, because YOU keep buying their gold.
Maybe it depends on the server. Back than I only knew about sell runs for the Amani War Bear which was 1k at my server in 2007/08. But I never heard about GDKP runs either when I quit wow at the end of WotLK. Nowadays this plague is everywhere.
This is a classic example (pun intended) of people taking a bribe and looking the other way. Blizz takes their cut of a sub fee, players get their faster loot and gold, and anyone who wants to actually, you know? PLAY THE F'ING GAME LEGIT is left in the cold, and the game ultimately suffers from it, people quit MUCH faster, and yeah. . . this is the human condition that thrives to short cut, backhand and destroy everything pure lol. I complain about it all the time in videos. I get crapped on for my opinions on MMORPG subreddit, the mods over there remove my posts for no good reason, talk trash, mute and soft ban my account lol. . . the problem with the MMORPG genre i'm starting to find out, is not just devs, it's many of the people that play MMORPG's in the first place. They hate the current state of things, they long for the past, and at the same time want to get rid of EVERY. SINGLE. Inconvenience or grind in their way. They call it antiquated garbage, or a product of a bygone era when dev tools were trash. I read it over, and over again. They are their own worst enemies lol.
I haven’t been able to play wow for a while now since Uni and a child. But I love watching your videos and get that feeling I used to have with all my friends exploring wow and just having fun. Enjoy the Azeroth for me!
I've seen it and had a clue of what it was for years but never had it actually explained to me this thoroughly. Appreciate your contact man! Edit: I just normally clear content I'm over geared for drunk for entertainment and emblems 🤷
I could see the point of gdkp if it wasnt for the massive amount of bots in the game and rmt, but as the situation is, people just want cut from the rmt money and then use it or swipe their credit card
I played WoW at launch through wotlk. The mentality of the playerbase was completely different back then. I can clearly remember people and guilds actually be frowned upon and be called out, because they had some sort of rmt going for getting raid loot or pvp ratings. There was actually a huge social trade-off like that. If you "bought" your gear and ratings and people knew about it, the communities were so close-knit and name/race changes weren't a thing for most of the time. So, you might be running around in top of the line gear, but everyone actually laughed at you, because you bought it all. WoW and it's appeal was literally made by the community, by their social rules. When this community eroded and degraded, the whole fun core loop you describe was destroyed fundamentally.
The problem is that nowadays, the snowflake whiners from 14 years ago that cried "but i paid for the game why can't i fullclear easily?!" are the main demographic. A bunch of wannabe-has-beens that are now living out their power fantasies they couldnt achieve in their teens.
As much as I'm not a fan of gold buyers (or sellers), I thoroughly enjoy doing GDKPs. The idea that I get to raid (which is fun to me), and either walk out with some upgrades, or walk out with some gold, is really nice.
i also enjoy, that i can focus more on the things, that are fun for me in wow --> raiding. i dont need to do useless farming, i can just go for something close to pre-raid BiS within a week or 2 and then join a gdkp already as carry/normal player. getting paid, sometimes i lose some gold, sometimes i win some. in the end, i get my characters geared without having to worry about prepare/dailys/whatever. that stuff would change a bit, if there wasnt botted gold floating all around, but the idea still stands. i actually like the idea of gdkps, because they mostly create communities instead of guilds. you still have your raiding times, if you cant come for one raid, well theres another one on the next day with some ppl on alts or some different ppl, after a few weeks, you know 60-80% of your raid and will meet up just like in guilds for other content/games aswell, if you want. less lootdrama, cuz "he got the item i wanted!!!1!!". In total: enjoyable gameplay in a guild-like environment without some downsides of guilds. and the exceptional insane goldvalues, you see: they are not common, i payed like 14k for my most expensive item yet --> got 7k out of the raid after.
You have to realise, that GDKP's being both the best way to make gold, and to get items makes them the only viable way to play the game for anyone who wants to interact with the economy, or you are majorly gimping yourself.
The fact is GDKPs are undeniably linked to gold botting. When you run one you’re directly fueling that system. As a result it creates a spiraling situation where “If I can’t beat em I’ll join em.” The inflated economy then punishes normal gold farming out in the world. If we could elliminate GDKPs or ensure botting was banned (or unprofitable for botters) then we’d revalue farming in the open world and the true value of having earned a piece of gear through the community and teamwork of a guild. And the economy wouldn’t be deflated (AND THIS IS KEY) therefore your farming methods would actually take less effort for the gold than they do now.
I did GDKP in ICC during wrath. It was NOTHING like the GDKP of today because it was actually reasonably priced and while expensive, I can either spend a few thousand gold on a bis 25H weapon or walk away with a decent amount of gold. I don’t ever remember seeing anything over 10k gold for a single item. That was just unheard of.
I've definitely listened to a Preach Drama about about a LK kill, including Invincible, that involved a few gold caps in the transaction process, but it was probably a server where gold buying was more rampant.
I think EU always have more gold on every server than NA for some reason. But yeah maybe I was just in a smaller server. Still, 50k for a single piece of gear was definitely not a thing. Invincible is, well, a entirely different issue. At least that’s pure cosmetic like alar.
@@YT-mp7ei back when i played my server was like medium population which would explain it, for context spectral tiger on my server was 120k for the blue mount. Im not sure what that would translate to now values of inflation, but at the time that was an impossible ammount of gold for my realm. The fact a helm slot can go for this now boggles my mind.
Agreed, and I think all it would take, would be to ban gold farming bots with more and/or better GM and customer support (definitely more and better). Investing in your customers is a good business practice. and will reward you far greater than milking a dying and old cow.
You are right WillE this worship of in game gold (also as real money) ends as Idolatry. Those that pursue this as a financial transaction, sucks the very soul out of the game and turns it into an excel spreadsheet.
This is interesting because from a moral and Christian perspective, you can see the pitfalls of this even in WoW lol. It's like the devs turn the other cheek, take a bribe knowing gold farmers exist, but hey... that's a sub fee! right? . . . and evil pushes on. The players likewise, they see the damage, they understand it, but they benefit, so they take their cut, they turn their cheek. . . evil pushes on. this goes on and on until the server is literally DEAD. Lol. . . the people leave. The people buying wash out 100x faster, the people not into the people who buy, don't even compete and they leave at the gate. This is a good image of how evil LITERALLY worms its way into our lives. Some people who do not understand sin, or spiritual things will scoff at this. But this is how it works.
The worst thing about GDKP for me besides encouraging botting is the fact that you can’t tell if someone bought their BiS set or if they worked for it. It creates en environment of distrust where you might look up to someone stacked on gear while they just used their credit card or the opposite where you don’t give credit to someone who might deserve it.
Why does it matter how other people get their gear. Its their game, not yours. You know how you got yours. Its a really important concept in life, to get YOUR satisfaction from the things YOU DO, not what others do. Learn it, it will help you all through your life, not just WOW.
@@sticktothefacts8905 That's like saying "Why does it matter if the soldier next to you is a trained soldier, or just a wet noodle in a suit of armor" i mean dude... we want badasses by our side. It's not hard to understand lol. This isn't real life, but much like real life, respect is earned. So stick to the facts man. That's a fact.
Work for it, you mean go to a MS/OS be the worst performer and blizz showers you with great rolls so you walk out with 90% bis having done one raid rolling your face across the keyboard while the rest of the group tells you to stand in the corner on yogg p1 because your incapable of not touching every could possible.
On my server in vanila, there was smth close to this - the two best hordesl guilds was selling gear from not-the-last raid for gold. Fix prices, not all gear was able to be bought (legendaries and other realy good gear went allways to the guils, but some tier pieces etc...). Then usualy brought in like 1 buyer / class and just carried them by the raid
It all boils down to the same thing - scale and servers. On private servers there have been amazing examples of gdkps that contribute to the community. Feenix immediately springs to mind. When the server is around 1000 active players or less and no bots (or, at least, very few bots and active GM's banning them frequently) gdkps create this awesome link between veterans who actually need the gold and can't just buy it and casual players, who then go on and fill the world farming various things. I recall high levels forming entire groups to PvP and clear areas so lowbies could farm gold to then drop on the pots. And going myself to silithus which is filled with dozens of people killing stuff, or really wherever you want. Not to mention the forming communities of "runners" with their own mini ecosystems. But when bots, gold selling and MASSIVE megaservers exist - same as with everything else, any soul that comes organically is just grinded down to nothing.
I think the answer is easy. Every character that the server sees trade 6 digits of gold to another gets an automated account review. If they find suspicious activity at all, ban them for 48 hours. During that ban have it manually reviewed. If they find something suspicious, ban them for a month. Do this for 4 weeks and the GDKP problem will evaporate.
A lot of people that are buying gold don't have 6 digits worth of gold. 5 digits is where most people fall under, but so do lots of non-gold-buying players in wotlk. If all a gold-buying player had to do was avoid having 6 digits of gold, then they just store the gold across a few characters, easy.
Unfortunately given WoW is a subscription based game, it is an unprofitable business decision to spend that much time evaluating and banning accounts for blizzard
I remember doing lots of black temple gdkps for money, anytime glaives dropped it was great. Except for the time that it went for 500g because no one else in the raid could even use it
The way to kill GDKPs imo is just to HARD limit the amount of gold that can be traded inside a raid to like 1k at most. Also then any items obtained that are tradable have their tradable tags removed upon exit
This solves half the problem. People can still trade it a day or 2 after but thats based on trust than. I do see a small community of people still doing gdkp in a discord, but this would clear 50% of the gdkp runs at least. If you can think of that blizzard should be able to solve the other half of the solition.
I was going to say how this wouldn't work but then I saw the last part. Not an awful idea but honestly they would find workarounds and it would end up hurting normal players sometimes too. There were times in Vanilla Classic where we'd finish the raid and I'd decide I didn't need an item that much and would tell my guildie to come to the bank and give it to him etc. I guess you could just be careful, but I still think GDKPers would find a way around it within a day. Something like trading a 10k (or more or whatever, I don't know GDKP prices) deposit before the raid and any items you win get taken out of that deposit and if it goes over then you pay up at the end. You'd end up with a "vouch" system where if someone was a good GDKPer and had come through with their payments they'd get well known or be given a special Discord role in the GDKP Disc or something.
I like retails version where it's player specific or what ever it's called. It's non tradeable loot that is guaranteed to drop for every player so there's no need to trade others. They could just treat it as a single player game where they throw in more rng into it so each player gets a random drop for an item during that run.
@@eurosonly personal loot is tradable, with certain restrictions. In addition, for raids specifically retail uses group loot witch is just need or greed
Personal anecdote on the subject: There was atleast one guild who sold loot in MC/BWL on the EU server al'akir back in 2006. Not exactly gdkp as only the carryers (the guild) got to split the gold).
Grobbullus NA player here, we're lucky enough to have relatively few gdkps and bots. I think this is in large part because our server is locked indefinitely. To be honest I'd join as a carry to make some cash, but I have trouble finding them.
I know this is 2 weeks old but I have seen so many GDKP ads in trade chat on horde grobb its almost unreal. Still not as bad as late end tbc but still quite a bit.
If you play nonmeta class GDKP runs was your only option to get into the raids and see the content, because guilds and pugs pick you only if some people missing from their regular roster. I played pve arms during classic/tbc and it was really hard to get into raids. For example i only saw naxx and actual tempest keep in gbids raids, bcos every other format rejected me.
True. And once in a while you'll get kicked at the last second because their friend had showed up late. Or before the last boss that they're farming gear for one of their raid members. I saw a pretty big post about this on reddit a few weeks ago. Truly, a dispicable crowd that does stuff like this.
I don't do GDKPs at all. I'm in a well rounded guild with 95-99parsing players, we are having an amazing time together, we've been playing for years together on private servers. The Loot council is sorting the loot flawlessly , everyone is getting geared really well, everyone close to BiS now before Ulduar release, not a single dime spent on gear. I feel sorry for the lonley people buying their way to stand afk in Dalaran with their Dying Curse or Grim Toll. But yeah, you do you.
GDKP is one of the greatest loot systems. Every time you do a raid you get rewarded for your time. Imagine being one of the first to join your guild and have been raiding and haven’t missed a raid, then you run BWL and a DFT or Neth Tear drops, and you lose the role to someone that joined that week, doesn’t feel good. Now if it was a gdkp you would be saving all your gold for that big ticket item.
Even on retail, selling services for gold is insane, you can earn so much if you are a skilled player with good performances. I was active in a Boosting Community for a couple months and made the gold cap which is like what now, 10 million? Didn't touch the game since first raid tier of Shadowlands, so my exact memory is blurry.
I’ve got a noob question. I don’t play Wow but I don’t understand why you would join a GDKP when there’s an auction house? Like if your spending gold for BIS do you save gold in a GDKP and if you do save gold in there why wouldn’t the raiders just put it in the AH?
Many items in the game are "Bind on Pickup" which bind it to your character when it is looted. If your BiS is BoP then you won't find it for sale on the AH
I love raiding end game content, its why I have two level 80s that are in separate guilds that raid on different days. But I also have 2 80s that do GDKPs that aren't in guilds. Why do boring solo grinds in an MMO? I want to interact with people and both in my guild and gdkps I am getting the interaction; one is an interaction for achieving content/loot/etc, the other is an interaction for achieving gold.
Botting/RWT is the root cause of this. If people didn't buy insane amounts of gold other moneymaking options could be worth it. I only did 1 GDKP throughout tbc, and made around 1.5k gold. That was enough to fuel months of raiding.
6:20 - you gotta remember that trading gold between current and classic is not against tos and people I played with in GDKPs if not buy from shady arab they do it the way that blizzard allows them to do. So technically there is wowtoken on classic.
Im so happy I changed server to thekal with the launch of Wotlk, hardly no one does gdkps here and there seem to be a very limitted amount of bots ruining the market
u kidding right? the retail boost is literally a gdkp with only one buyer, the person who bought the entire raid and will get all the loot while getting carried, there's no need to gdkp on retail while you have this, that is a lot worse
to repeat a bit of what you said GDKP is different for everyone, i farm gold to do GDKP and dont do that much raid cause i'm personnaly more interested in PVP and thats a good way to get in prepare to PVP in my opignon ! You work like a PRO btw Thank you for that
But what if you get in a group with people who botted gold and have far far more than you, and you cant outbid anyone and come out the raid with no loot?
@@dafire9634 yeah thats happends half of the time and botting is so sad.... in this case i'll just let them bid and do the raid just to earn more gold and bid on the next raid or get prepare for a softres one but if your server is full of "GdkpBotraiders" it inevitably suck a lot
Im not really into the raiding scene, I mostly play for socializing and doing stuff like fishing and making potions. Would a reasonable solution be to cap the amount of gold that players could bring to the raid? I know that greed gets in the way of things often, but if people were capped at like...idk 10-25k gold, would that help stymy some of the more ridiculous sums paid for items? Anyway have a good day everyone
The fact is GDKPs are undeniably linked to gold botting. When you run one you’re directly fueling that system. As a result it creates a spiraling situation where “If I can’t beat em I’ll join em.” The inflated economy then punishes normal gold farming out in the world. If we could elliminate GDKPs or ensure botting was banned (or unprofitable for botters) then we’d revalue farming in the open world and the true value of having earned a piece of gear through the community and teamwork of a guild. And the economy wouldn’t be deflated (AND THIS IS KEY) therefore your farming methods would actually take less effort for the gold than they do now.
It's a bit ironic that the one thing people craved for the most was the sense of community in vanilla through wotlk. Now that they have it.. the main thing killing the game is the community
I was on Stormrage US in vanilla - there weren't GDKP'S but the top guilds were absolutely selling spots where you could hoover up most gear drops all the way in BWL already.
I'm glad that I play on Thekal. Havn't seen almost any gdkps. If any1 posts about it in general chat then everyone mocks em and tells them to play on Gehennas if they want gdkp.
@@TGShunai Yep that's problem. So there is no point playing the game how it was supposed to be: farming etc. Im glad some ppl enjoy gdkp and play on those realms. Im happy I can be on a realm where almost everyone have to get gold traditionall way like proffs, farming, grinding etc.
I used to play on Gehennas and it felt pointless to play the game. Just go in and do 1 gdkp cause it was by far the best way to make gold. Not fun according to me.
NGL I've raided in pugs exclusively with my warr alt and I'm over 50% bis now. I got into a sick pugs disc and they only thing they HR is the key which is understandable.
I miss the old days, it’s the reason why I’ve never joined a guild on Pyrewood, no one seems to be recruiting a levelling paladin, it’s all gear score, impatient players wanting me to tank at 200 miles an hour, and I’m used to chain pulling. I’m level 55 now, likely quit when I hit 80 because I hate dungeons with randoms, I miss playing with a decent guild but they don’t seem to exist any more.
But, it is strange, how while the game gets easier (in terms of methods to gear up) the GDKP increases, I mean in Wolk you can gear up relatively easy compared to vanilla and TBC, but it was in this expantion when the phenomenon got more popular...
Huh, I played up through Legion and never heard of GDKP until Classic. I really don't think it actually became widespread until them....at least not in NA.
he said others need items and the once who dont need items need the gold, what exactly does a person who doesnt even need any items, why does that person need gold? to buy what?
I just cannot wrap my head around people having obtained 200 thousand gold manually and legitimately, and then pouring all that gold into one item that will be replaceable in a few weeks. Seriously, the one thing I struggle the most in the game is making gold, with the limited amount of playtime I get. GDKPs actually make me a bit uncomfortable.
The extreme usage of gdkp and the bots that follow, is the prime reason why I won't play classic, until blizz does something about it, and that something is banning gdkp.
Gdkp itself cannot be banned and is also not against any kind of tos? Just an alternative looting system. Don’t get me wrong, i hate gdkp/p2w too but as far as for what blizzard can or will do, its pretty limited. I don’t see them banning gold buyers/sellers as they also profit a lot from it [wow token]
@@Blubking1 Blizz can change the TOS if they find it necessary, like they did with multiboxing, and advertising boosts (in retail).99% of the gold in gdkp is bot farmed of bought with real money. Banning gdkp is the only solution, as long as blizz can't get the their shit together and start doing hardware bans on all bots, even first time offenses. But blizz seems to be contend just letting the bots run the economies, on ALL classic servers. So letting gdkp stay right now is just inviting bots to the game.
@@aomforever Yes just that "banning" boosts and mulitboxing took them about 16 years to do it and still hasn't changed anything. In retail, people are still boosting.
Wish there was a feasible way to introduce an ironman mechanic into wow, but I cant really think of a way to hard-implement it aside from self inflicted restrictions
i love GDKPs cause i control whether or not i get an item and i refuse to spend hours farming when i can do a full 10m Ulduar w/ Alg in 2-3 hours and cash out 8-15k
You don't though. I ran one today, as our raid group collapsed as soon as I hit 60 because of the fresh announcement. Sucks for me, so I joined a ZG GDKP to st least get some raiding in. I bought one item I could afford and the pushy jajas running the thing tried to steal my cut because I wasn't bidding on gear I didn't need (non dps gear). They even tried to kick me from the raid because I wasn't bidding on mail items. My character is a shadow priest. GDKPs are trash. The shitheads who run them are pushy gold sellers who get paid using the gold their buyers purchase through RMT. It's a fucking toxic loop and you're blind if you can't see that.
All this gdkp is heartbreaking, I joined classic at end of tbc and ghe gdkp spam was enormous. I just wanted to enjoy a progression type adventure, but you can't have that anymore.
You act like these prices are crazy but... If you attend 25 raids, on average you would get the ENTIRE pot from a single raid, which means that its just as useful, and more equitable, than having loot council, or traditional DKP.
I see what you did there with that last statement. Because wow is a waste of time no matter what you are doing in the game, that is the beauty of it all. But peoples think that by playing efficiently they are somehow not wasting their time in a video game, the irony in this is delightful. If you don't want to "waste your time" don't play the game at all xD
I run with my main in my guild, and since we have no other raid teams i run 3 toons in a gdkp ive been with for about 7 months now. The misconception gdkps replace community is bonkers to me. While the guild raid logs and doesn't talk much in discord or in game, the gdkp im a part of is organizing sr 10 mans, achievement runs, and other events. I don't personally buy gold, but I benefit from the people that allegedly do. I also benefit from the community there being more interesting than my guild half the time. You can dislike gdkps and not participate in them, and that's more than fine. But they aren't all cesspools. Thankfully, consumables are cheap and crafting materials are plentiful, I dont think people who don't gdkp are being adversely affected by the existence of gold buyers. Just because you don't like an aspect of the game doesn't mean you should be hoping it gets banned or removed, just report anyone advertising in trade (which everyone should do) and enjoy playing with your friends.
I'm sure there are plenty of others saying, but I'm fine with GDKP as long as people legitimately earned the gold. But it doesn't take too many people buying gold for the system to become flush with gold and ruin the entire economy. You would need Blizzard to come down hard on anyone botting or buying, but they simply don't see it as that large of a concern, as long as the botters are paying for the sub.
You dont need to buy gold to be able to afford items at ridiculous prices, you just need to do GDKPs and get gold from others buying items at ridiculous prices.
I agree with you but as long as you don’t know who is buying or not, it’s just a terrible system. I’ve talked to many on my server and gold buying is actually a big thing. I know someone that buys $100 each week. It’s hilarious
Funny how everyone whined about dungeon boost but GDKP are fine, when I bet 100% of the gold is RMT. I mean I saw Warglaives at the end of TBC being sold on my server for 200k like come on.
What if a game had a small cap on how much gold you can have on your account? Like a legend of zelda wallet? It would encourage people to spend their gold regularily so they don't lose any from being goldcapped. There could be multiple items that would cost close to gold cap, leave everything affordable, and instantly solve inflation.
They'd just sell off a bunch of stuff and mail the gold later after the raid. Or just run off with the drop. I'm all for the second option if it stops this pattern.
I see several flaws in that legic: - If you make cap character specific then people will just switch to their alt - if you make the cap account wide then people will either: a) not play the game (which is bad) b) get a separate account (this is what botters will do)
People will re-invest their gold into expensive comodities whose price doesn't fluctuate as much for example the engineering motocycle mats, some of those mats cost up to 3k gold and there will always be a demand for the engi motocyle thus you can invest your spare gold into those parts craft multiple motos and basically trade in bikes lmao
I remember doing GDKP's in OG ICC as well. We did quite a few heroic mode bosses as well, basically all of them minus LK and end wing bosses. The rest were very puggable.
It seems to me that the problem people have with GDKPs is a perspective issue. If you are going to one because you need gear, that means you don't have a guild, or it's an alt that you don't have a raid spot for. Why would a normal player not have a guild to raid with to get it for free? Maybe scheduling issues or something. For that person, having a guaranteed spot because he did extra questing and dailies for a bit, buying a piece here and there, after a few weeks is swimming in gold from the payout. Now he's got a bankroll to buy the higher ticket items. For that player, and similar players, this system works. For everyone else, and I can't say it enough, START YOUR OWN GROUP! If everyone that cried about GDKP started their own MS>OS group, that's all there would be. And yes, I agree, it does make people want to buy gold, but let's be honest, they were gonna do that anyway, just for a lesser amount.
Boosting (SM runs etc) were a way to allow alts needed by guilds to get to the correct level and gear setup to actually assist the guild in clearing content
I've never done a GDKP run before but I like the idea of being able to get the item you really want as long as you are willing to throw more money at it then anyone else in the raid. It sucks losing the roll to other people week after week.
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If botting wasnt such a massive problem in classic I feel like GDKP would be a very fair way of handing out loot. Sadly I cant be fine with someone ''earning'' an item if they acquired the gold through botting or even buying botted gold. Lets be real here, most people that have the gold to pay these ridiculous prices probably didnt earn it in a fair way.
Yup. Someone who's got 10,000g they earned legitimately has put in the work. They've done gathering, crafting or more dailies then I can imagine ever doing. They've probably put in as much or more work then many raiders ever have, so getting items with that gold isn't an offensive concept. They've paid their dues, one way or another.
But with the botting? Its not legit. At all. Doesn't matter if you were the one botting or if you bought the gold - you didn't truly earn that. Which is what GDKP's are full of - botted and bought gold. So I won't touch them with a barge pole on either end - I could be a pumper and get paid, but I'd be just another part of the problem if I did.
The fact that I could spend my entire day of playing every day doing the best possible gold farming methods, and still not be able to keep up with people who just bought gold was really disheartening
Thats where you're wrong, I personally know at least 20-30 people that have started off as carries, got many characters to attend these raids with as carries, got mad gold for said raids and can now afford to buy an item for tens of thousands of gold on a fresh character because they've earned that gold.
Not saying you're completely wrong, just saying theres another side to it.
@@mikeyrajcevski2624 You seriously just said that with a straight face? You know all these people who "earned" gold as a carry and then spent that gold on a fresh character earned "mad gold" that was spent by someone who bought botted gold. The circle goes all the way around and there's no point where you can say you participated and didn't touch something dirty at some point.
TLDR : That earned mad gold is still bought gold. The fact that it changed hands means literally nothing.
@@mikea.6696 still doesnt matter , bots just raise inflation so if u work on a proffesion you would make the same amount of gold as u wouldve made without the bots(gold x inflation), only problem is if you are raw farming gold so whatever
Original vanilla WoW, I remember how cool it was to see someone in full T1 or T2 in Ironforge, then finally after working my way up through a 40man raid team I had my own Giantstalker mixed with Dragonstalker set with Rhok'/Lok'delar and I felt like a true baller. There was nothing like that since those days for me, but I only played original vanilla through WotLK. I'm glad I never got into a GDKP hustle raiding milieu.
I remember that too. I remember when I just stared at a full T1 geared hunter with Rhok’Ledar and Lok’Ledar in Auberdine when I was level 16 and I said hello and he replied hello to me and I was excited!
I remember having the AQ mixed stats set on my druid along with the other feral pieces from AQ. Along with the zg raptor. Looked so good. And was so powerful in PvP. Got em again in Classic. Still nothing that look as good as that set on a tauren.
The bossfights for the T1-T2 sets in vanilla were a way easier task than clearing a raid on mythic difficulty prenerf. Vanilla was easy,but the players were worse, and u had a lot less information (hundreds of wow sites, youtube videos, twitch streams etc) than nowadays.
@@pharkasj I use to walk around Shattar in my Judgement set just to look cool. Even before Transmog I always would wear a city set.
Everlook vanilla server has banned gkdp for the most part
Literally, what killed Vanilla Classic for me. GDKP was everywhere, gold buying was *rampant*, and it destroyed any meaning in the game for many.
So true, it sucks the soul out of the game and everything now has a money value behind it. Yes we pay for a service for entertainment to ActiBlizz but when that entertainment turns into a bank investors as the focus vs just enjoying the game, same sad result, not a game anymore.
And yet people were playing classic WoW and paying money for it when they could have gone to private servers like Kronos without GDKP…
it killed Wow entirely. mmorpg people spend real money to buy botted gold to buy items from raid to not play the game together with other players …
Warglaives went from being cool to cringe..160k for both glaives earned the new title "payglaives"
Hello pro tip for you, join normal Guild and raid with them. You dont need any gold, and will get items over time easily.
When we talk about what killed MMO's (particularly WoW) we talk about many different things, but very few (if any) people ever mention the biggest thing that killed MMO's (and WoW) - the players. The players did absolutely everything they could to bypass as much of the game as possible, to skip it all, and just get right to the very final part.
It was the creators job to not let the players ruin the game and they failed. Players will always try to optimize and min max, as much as I hate it and I conciously avoid it myself nowadays, it's a natural behavior. In fact we strive to be better than we were and than others in many things and gaming isn't different. What WOW needed was a serious company behind it to understand this and to plant a strong foot in the ground as to not allow the playerbase to break the game. Things like nerfing leveling services through dungeon runs, putting in place serious anti botting systems and imho even disabling trading of dropped loot, gold or both into dungeons as to avoid or minimize GDKP's. But alas they didn't and WOW became a dumpster fire.
Which is just a stunning display of mental illness. Because endgame comprises barely a single digit percent of vanilla WoW's content. Players rushed through 96% of the game to just...sit around and wait to do the rest of the 4% lol. And THEN they complain about how boring it is. "Just spam the same skill over and over again WTF". I swear MMO culture needs to be studied by psychologists
@@gabzsy4924 Social engineering is certainly a thing. But there's only so much devs can do when the entire gaming industry encourages this type of cancerous behaviour nowadays.
This also killed TBC before it was released again it was doomed.
I raided into Naxx at 60 in OG, my eyes were more open to the treadmill as I played into 70, and I really found not raiding to be a great value for the time spent vs what raids I seen an the terrible behavior or raiders at the time.
The heroics done below raid gear levels were fun and there were a ton of them.
@@gabzsy4924 I think the problem was the creators doing this to the detriment of the average player. Such as running a buddy through SM for 1-2 levels to help push past a questing lull is now not doable. Instead the casual player just quits at 34 or w/e.
Willie? Thank you for so many months, years for simply amazing content. Always nuanced and well researched.
Love your stuff
As someone who's played a hunter class as my main for over 10 years now, seeing a warrior walk away with a legendary bow grinds my gears. And he probably did it for the flex and nothing more. Just because he could due to how much gold he had. Probably bought it all too.
I mean, it was technically our BiS stat stick in that slot. So it was a bit more than just a flex haha.
@@boredgeek A bit more yes, but not a LOT more.
I did a few GDKP. I hated it. It feels like I'm part of a big crime ring helping obviously TOS breaking accounts get geared, only to be sold off or to pretend they earned it all. Wasn't worth the gold at the end and unless you also buy gold you'll never get an item at a reasonable price. I saw blues in ZG and AQ20 break 4 digits.
For me I think gold received from wow tokens should be 'black gold' that can only be spent on vendors and not be tradeable to players or used on the auction house. (Crafting things to sell would be the workaround, like jewel panthers)
And people paying to get carried should also be actioned similar to piloting. They didn't earn those mounts or gear, they just sat there and was dead for every fight. (however would be fine if no gold was transferred)
I also did some GDKPs in each instance of classic, but found the raid lead teams usually were pretty toxic. I'm a healer and there is rarely much for me to mess up, so I was never the target, but again and again, GDKP leads were massive assholes for the smallest of mistakes (unless of course someone was carrying a lot of gold). Hypocrites as well, since they would penalize others' cut for making mistakes, but not their own lead team if they messed up. It attracts the kind of person that lives WoW and defines themselves through it, often not a fun environment to raid in.
@@1un4cy thank God you're not a game dev
@@rossmiller9740cool story. It's bannable now.
The second big problem of the current prevalence of GDKPs, besides gold buying, is their inaccessibility to new players. Someone who joined the game in a later phase of an expansion and just hit level cap literally cannot get into a GDKP, without gold buying. You obviously cannot join as a booster, as you don't have any items yet, but if you want to join as a buyer, you need to prove beforehand that you have thousands, if not tens of thousands of gold that you could spend. Which is almost impossible to acquire in any reasonable time, outside of GDKPs.
Now all of this would not be so bad if people could just go to SR runs instead. But while I feel like the current wrath phase is a bit better in this regard, in the later vanilla classic phases and in pretty much all of TBC, those were pretty much non-existent.
I can understand the frustration that many, many people voiced in forums, on reddit and in in-game chat, that once they hit 70 in TBC, the game became a toxic, gatekeeping mess. As it was literally impossible for a fresh 70 in dungeon blues to get into any pug run. Even most guilds weren't running alt runs of the previous raid tiers, as it was way more lucrative to just make a guild-organized GDKP with half guild and half pugs with fat wallets.
I don't mind GDKP as a concept. It's not for me, as I, too, very much subscribe to 'farm gold for raiding, not raid to farm gold'. But I do very much mind how prevalent it has become. I genuinely hope that the changes to how you can acquire the previous tier's raid loot, that blizzard is planning, are going to make GDKPs less appealing to people. I think they should have their place, but next to SR runs, not instead of them.
This and the anti alchemy loot bags they rolled out xx what killed wrath classic phase 1 for me
Then don't join GDKP runs if you can't. There's plenty of regular runs going on. It's like trying to get into a billionaires club with 5 bucks in your pocket and greasy shirt from your work at McDonalds.
Oh cmon, get 10k and get into on gdkp naxx and you are well geared. I stay around the 10k and dont want the guild drama shit again for the 3 time. I do 1 25 gdkp run every second week or something like that and never bought a single gold for realmoney in classic. Ppl will buy gold even without Gdkp like it was 15 years ago
@@dsaweaa883 So, imagine you just join wow, because all your friends tell you it's amazing, and you do all the leveling and have a great time. Now you hit 80 and you really want to raid. And the first thing people tell you to do is 'just get 10.000 gold first'? Ofc it is doable if you've played classic for years and have a healthy bank, but my point is about new players.
When I did GDKP raids back in Wrath the regulars would vote and bring in a couple of people for carries. That way some newbies could get their gold up and use it next week.
I never even heard of GDKP til classic, I had no idea it was going on during the original, though I do remember hearing a few mentions here and there of raid loot being auctioned but I neve really thought anything of it, figured it was just isolated occurrances over the really valuable stuff. It really calls into question how so many complain about goldselling/farming bots all over the place when the same idiots are obviously buying gold to pay for these exorbitant GDKP bids. Of course classic's infested with bots, because YOU keep buying their gold.
Maybe it depends on the server. Back than I only knew about sell runs for the Amani War Bear which was 1k at my server in 2007/08. But I never heard about GDKP runs either when I quit wow at the end of WotLK.
Nowadays this plague is everywhere.
This is a classic example (pun intended) of people taking a bribe and looking the other way. Blizz takes their cut of a sub fee, players get their faster loot and gold, and anyone who wants to actually, you know? PLAY THE F'ING GAME LEGIT is left in the cold, and the game ultimately suffers from it, people quit MUCH faster, and yeah. . . this is the human condition that thrives to short cut, backhand and destroy everything pure lol.
I complain about it all the time in videos. I get crapped on for my opinions on MMORPG subreddit, the mods over there remove my posts for no good reason, talk trash, mute and soft ban my account lol. . . the problem with the MMORPG genre i'm starting to find out, is not just devs, it's many of the people that play MMORPG's in the first place.
They hate the current state of things, they long for the past, and at the same time want to get rid of EVERY. SINGLE. Inconvenience or grind in their way. They call it antiquated garbage, or a product of a bygone era when dev tools were trash. I read it over, and over again. They are their own worst enemies lol.
I haven’t been able to play wow for a while now since Uni and a child. But I love watching your videos and get that feeling I used to have with all my friends exploring wow and just having fun. Enjoy the Azeroth for me!
I've seen it and had a clue of what it was for years but never had it actually explained to me this thoroughly.
Appreciate your contact man!
Edit: I just normally clear content I'm over geared for drunk for entertainment and emblems 🤷
That title is 10/10
I could see the point of gdkp if it wasnt for the massive amount of bots in the game and rmt, but as the situation is, people just want cut from the rmt money and then use it or swipe their credit card
And people wonder why games are so full of in game cash shops today.
We just had a GDKP a few weeks ago on Whitemane-Horde have a Betrayer sell for 150K. That was the opening bid.
Lmao if I know what run you're talking about, that was a guildie of mine haha
Not bad, on week one turning tide dropped for 205k for us
There was a gdkp where Betrayer went for 3k loool
spending 150k on Naxx loot LMAO clearly a gold buyer
@@romanbloomfield9066 no he farms DM east for 70 gold/hour.
I played WoW at launch through wotlk. The mentality of the playerbase was completely different back then. I can clearly remember people and guilds actually be frowned upon and be called out, because they had some sort of rmt going for getting raid loot or pvp ratings. There was actually a huge social trade-off like that. If you "bought" your gear and ratings and people knew about it, the communities were so close-knit and name/race changes weren't a thing for most of the time. So, you might be running around in top of the line gear, but everyone actually laughed at you, because you bought it all.
WoW and it's appeal was literally made by the community, by their social rules. When this community eroded and degraded, the whole fun core loop you describe was destroyed fundamentally.
The problem is that nowadays, the snowflake whiners from 14 years ago that cried "but i paid for the game why can't i fullclear easily?!" are the main demographic.
A bunch of wannabe-has-beens that are now living out their power fantasies they couldnt achieve in their teens.
I fully agree with your take here on playing the game to raid
As much as I'm not a fan of gold buyers (or sellers), I thoroughly enjoy doing GDKPs.
The idea that I get to raid (which is fun to me), and either walk out with some upgrades, or walk out with some gold, is really nice.
i also enjoy, that i can focus more on the things, that are fun for me in wow --> raiding. i dont need to do useless farming, i can just go for something close to pre-raid BiS within a week or 2 and then join a gdkp already as carry/normal player. getting paid, sometimes i lose some gold, sometimes i win some. in the end, i get my characters geared without having to worry about prepare/dailys/whatever.
that stuff would change a bit, if there wasnt botted gold floating all around, but the idea still stands.
i actually like the idea of gdkps, because they mostly create communities instead of guilds. you still have your raiding times, if you cant come for one raid, well theres another one on the next day with some ppl on alts or some different ppl, after a few weeks, you know 60-80% of your raid and will meet up just like in guilds for other content/games aswell, if you want. less lootdrama, cuz "he got the item i wanted!!!1!!". In total: enjoyable gameplay in a guild-like environment without some downsides of guilds.
and the exceptional insane goldvalues, you see: they are not common, i payed like 14k for my most expensive item yet --> got 7k out of the raid after.
You have to realise, that GDKP's being both the best way to make gold, and to get items makes them the only viable way to play the game for anyone who wants to interact with the economy, or you are majorly gimping yourself.
The fact is GDKPs are undeniably linked to gold botting. When you run one you’re directly fueling that system. As a result it creates a spiraling situation where “If I can’t beat em I’ll join em.” The inflated economy then punishes normal gold farming out in the world.
If we could elliminate GDKPs or ensure botting was banned (or unprofitable for botters) then we’d revalue farming in the open world and the true value of having earned a piece of gear through the community and teamwork of a guild. And the economy wouldn’t be deflated (AND THIS IS KEY) therefore your farming methods would actually take less effort for the gold than they do now.
I did GDKP in ICC during wrath. It was NOTHING like the GDKP of today because it was actually reasonably priced and while expensive, I can either spend a few thousand gold on a bis 25H weapon or walk away with a decent amount of gold. I don’t ever remember seeing anything over 10k gold for a single item. That was just unheard of.
I recall buying the 277 ring from gunship for 15k on daggerspine eu. But like you said would see something for the prices of todat
I've definitely listened to a Preach Drama about about a LK kill, including Invincible, that involved a few gold caps in the transaction process, but it was probably a server where gold buying was more rampant.
I think EU always have more gold on every server than NA for some reason. But yeah maybe I was just in a smaller server. Still, 50k for a single piece of gear was definitely not a thing. Invincible is, well, a entirely different issue. At least that’s pure cosmetic like alar.
@@YT-mp7ei back when i played my server was like medium population which would explain it, for context spectral tiger on my server was 120k for the blue mount. Im not sure what that would translate to now values of inflation, but at the time that was an impossible ammount of gold for my realm. The fact a helm slot can go for this now boggles my mind.
@@YT-mp7ei and it still isnt today. In most gdkps, you could fully equip multiple chars with 50k.
Agreed, and I think all it would take, would be to ban gold farming bots with more and/or better GM and customer support (definitely more and better). Investing in your customers is a good business practice. and will reward you far greater than milking a dying and old cow.
You are right WillE this worship of in game gold (also as real money) ends as Idolatry. Those that pursue this as a financial transaction, sucks the very soul out of the game and turns it into an excel spreadsheet.
This is interesting because from a moral and Christian perspective, you can see the pitfalls of this even in WoW lol. It's like the devs turn the other cheek, take a bribe knowing gold farmers exist, but hey... that's a sub fee! right? . . . and evil pushes on.
The players likewise, they see the damage, they understand it, but they benefit, so they take their cut, they turn their cheek. . . evil pushes on.
this goes on and on until the server is literally DEAD. Lol. . . the people leave. The people buying wash out 100x faster, the people not into the people who buy, don't even compete and they leave at the gate.
This is a good image of how evil LITERALLY worms its way into our lives. Some people who do not understand sin, or spiritual things will scoff at this. But this is how it works.
13:44 Utters "That's why I'm going out to learn my class" while spamming a one button rotation
GDKP is WoWs cancer… everyone contributing is killing this game. Nothing more to be said about it.
Thanks Willie for top notch content as always
I would love this alternate system in a world without botting and where you couldn't buy gold with real life money IN ANY WAY
Anyone know the name of the unitframe addon at 1:02?
The worst thing about GDKP for me besides encouraging botting is the fact that you can’t tell if someone bought their BiS set or if they worked for it. It creates en environment of distrust where you might look up to someone stacked on gear while they just used their credit card or the opposite where you don’t give credit to someone who might deserve it.
Why does it matter how other people get their gear. Its their game, not yours. You know how you got yours. Its a really important concept in life, to get YOUR satisfaction from the things YOU DO, not what others do. Learn it, it will help you all through your life, not just WOW.
@@sticktothefacts8905 That's like saying "Why does it matter if the soldier next to you is a trained soldier, or just a wet noodle in a suit of armor" i mean dude... we want badasses by our side. It's not hard to understand lol. This isn't real life, but much like real life, respect is earned. So stick to the facts man. That's a fact.
@@EQOAnostalgia No it isnt, its a game, lol
Work for it, you mean go to a MS/OS be the worst performer and blizz showers you with great rolls so you walk out with 90% bis having done one raid rolling your face across the keyboard while the rest of the group tells you to stand in the corner on yogg p1 because your incapable of not touching every could possible.
Hi Will!
That Spinksville post sure was a blast from the past. She was one of the big WoW bloggers back then.
On my server in vanila, there was smth close to this - the two best hordesl guilds was selling gear from not-the-last raid for gold. Fix prices, not all gear was able to be bought (legendaries and other realy good gear went allways to the guils, but some tier pieces etc...). Then usualy brought in like 1 buyer / class and just carried them by the raid
I commended you on the non-clickbaity title in this comment and you changed the title to a more clickbaity one, so I'm taking it back.
pretty regularly did gdkp in TBC for naxx 60 back in the day lol did some hydra and black temple ones as well but they didn't go to far.
It all boils down to the same thing - scale and servers. On private servers there have been amazing examples of gdkps that contribute to the community. Feenix immediately springs to mind. When the server is around 1000 active players or less and no bots (or, at least, very few bots and active GM's banning them frequently) gdkps create this awesome link between veterans who actually need the gold and can't just buy it and casual players, who then go on and fill the world farming various things. I recall high levels forming entire groups to PvP and clear areas so lowbies could farm gold to then drop on the pots. And going myself to silithus which is filled with dozens of people killing stuff, or really wherever you want. Not to mention the forming communities of "runners" with their own mini ecosystems.
But when bots, gold selling and MASSIVE megaservers exist - same as with everything else, any soul that comes organically is just grinded down to nothing.
its amazing how determined some are to make a game unfun, even for themselves
BY. A. WARRIOR.
got me pausing the video, insane stuff
I think the answer is easy. Every character that the server sees trade 6 digits of gold to another gets an automated account review. If they find suspicious activity at all, ban them for 48 hours. During that ban have it manually reviewed. If they find something suspicious, ban them for a month. Do this for 4 weeks and the GDKP problem will evaporate.
A lot of people that are buying gold don't have 6 digits worth of gold. 5 digits is where most people fall under, but so do lots of non-gold-buying players in wotlk.
If all a gold-buying player had to do was avoid having 6 digits of gold, then they just store the gold across a few characters, easy.
Unfortunately given WoW is a subscription based game, it is an unprofitable business decision to spend that much time evaluating and banning accounts for blizzard
Manual review? You make it sound like WoW still has GMs and that they care 😂
I remember doing lots of black temple gdkps for money, anytime glaives dropped it was great.
Except for the time that it went for 500g because no one else in the raid could even use it
Where can I find the UI at 1:25?
just looks like Bartender for the action bars and maybe XPerl for the unit frames.
The way to kill GDKPs imo is just to HARD limit the amount of gold that can be traded inside a raid to like 1k at most. Also then any items obtained that are tradable have their tradable tags removed upon exit
This solves half the problem. People can still trade it a day or 2 after but thats based on trust than. I do see a small community of people still doing gdkp in a discord, but this would clear 50% of the gdkp runs at least. If you can think of that blizzard should be able to solve the other half of the solition.
I was going to say how this wouldn't work but then I saw the last part. Not an awful idea but honestly they would find workarounds and it would end up hurting normal players sometimes too. There were times in Vanilla Classic where we'd finish the raid and I'd decide I didn't need an item that much and would tell my guildie to come to the bank and give it to him etc. I guess you could just be careful, but I still think GDKPers would find a way around it within a day. Something like trading a 10k (or more or whatever, I don't know GDKP prices) deposit before the raid and any items you win get taken out of that deposit and if it goes over then you pay up at the end. You'd end up with a "vouch" system where if someone was a good GDKPer and had come through with their payments they'd get well known or be given a special Discord role in the GDKP Disc or something.
I like retails version where it's player specific or what ever it's called. It's non tradeable loot that is guaranteed to drop for every player so there's no need to trade others. They could just treat it as a single player game where they throw in more rng into it so each player gets a random drop for an item during that run.
@@eurosonly personal loot is tradable, with certain restrictions. In addition, for raids specifically retail uses group loot witch is just need or greed
I play on the fresh Giantstalker PvE on EU, and I legit havnt seen a single gdkp pug in my time here since launch. Feels fucking amazing.
GDKP started on sulfuras horde in classic. Lockedown gdkp (started by Haruman)
Personal anecdote on the subject: There was atleast one guild who sold loot in MC/BWL on the EU server al'akir back in 2006. Not exactly gdkp as only the carryers (the guild) got to split the gold).
most i see in wotlk classic right now are "prio run, rest MS > OS", thats kinda nice.
Interestingly, I havnt yet seen a GDKP raid on Mograine EU. Even this late in the phase it's still SR raids, quite nice tbh.
What is the weakaura your using on the hunter looks nice
Grobbullus NA player here, we're lucky enough to have relatively few gdkps and bots. I think this is in large part because our server is locked indefinitely. To be honest I'd join as a carry to make some cash, but I have trouble finding them.
Ah Grobbullus, from the outside it looks like paradise. PvP, almost 50/50 factionsplit and some RP? This can't be a real place.
I know this is 2 weeks old but I have seen so many GDKP ads in trade chat on horde grobb its almost unreal. Still not as bad as late end tbc but still quite a bit.
If you play nonmeta class GDKP runs was your only option to get into the raids and see the content, because guilds and pugs pick you only if some people missing from their regular roster. I played pve arms during classic/tbc and it was really hard to get into raids. For example i only saw naxx and actual tempest keep in gbids raids, bcos every other format rejected me.
Why arms in classic?
@@jaketyler7380 Because i can.
@@dmitriyrasskazov8858 that’s retarded
True. And once in a while you'll get kicked at the last second because their friend had showed up late. Or before the last boss that they're farming gear for one of their raid members. I saw a pretty big post about this on reddit a few weeks ago. Truly, a dispicable crowd that does stuff like this.
arms warrs were sought after in tbc for 3% physical dmg and playing arms over fury in classic is trolling.
I don't do GDKPs at all. I'm in a well rounded guild with 95-99parsing players, we are having an amazing time together, we've been playing for years together on private servers. The Loot council is sorting the loot flawlessly , everyone is getting geared really well, everyone close to BiS now before Ulduar release, not a single dime spent on gear. I feel sorry for the lonley people buying their way to stand afk in Dalaran with their Dying Curse or Grim Toll. But yeah, you do you.
Imagine paying subscription for a game where you pay people to play for you 😂
Peak gaming.
GDKP is one of the greatest loot systems. Every time you do a raid you get rewarded for your time. Imagine being one of the first to join your guild and have been raiding and haven’t missed a raid, then you run BWL and a DFT or Neth Tear drops, and you lose the role to someone that joined that week, doesn’t feel good. Now if it was a gdkp you would be saving all your gold for that big ticket item.
Even on retail, selling services for gold is insane, you can earn so much if you are a skilled player with good performances. I was active in a Boosting Community for a couple months and made the gold cap which is like what now, 10 million? Didn't touch the game since first raid tier of Shadowlands, so my exact memory is blurry.
oH - This 100% changed my mind about GDKP- damn i feel like reborn !
I’ve got a noob question. I don’t play Wow but I don’t understand why you would join a GDKP when there’s an auction house? Like if your spending gold for BIS do you save gold in a GDKP and if you do save gold in there why wouldn’t the raiders just put it in the AH?
Many items in the game are "Bind on Pickup" which bind it to your character when it is looted. If your BiS is BoP then you won't find it for sale on the AH
I love raiding end game content, its why I have two level 80s that are in separate guilds that raid on different days. But I also have 2 80s that do GDKPs that aren't in guilds. Why do boring solo grinds in an MMO? I want to interact with people and both in my guild and gdkps I am getting the interaction; one is an interaction for achieving content/loot/etc, the other is an interaction for achieving gold.
Dude I respect your grind this is nuts how many great quality vids you put out is fucking nuts much respect
9:49 Thats a comback from all hunter weapon! LOLL
Botting/RWT is the root cause of this. If people didn't buy insane amounts of gold other moneymaking options could be worth it. I only did 1 GDKP throughout tbc, and made around 1.5k gold. That was enough to fuel months of raiding.
ICC was when I first found GDKPs from a Kripparian video lol
6:20 - you gotta remember that trading gold between current and classic is not against tos and people I played with in GDKPs if not buy from shady arab they do it the way that blizzard allows them to do. So technically there is wowtoken on classic.
Im so happy I changed server to thekal with the launch of Wotlk, hardly no one does gdkps here and there seem to be a very limitted amount of bots ruining the market
Now retail will have Gdkp thanks to cross realm trades?
u kidding right? the retail boost is literally a gdkp with only one buyer, the person who bought the entire raid and will get all the loot while getting carried, there's no need to gdkp on retail while you have this, that is a lot worse
to repeat a bit of what you said GDKP is different for everyone, i farm gold to do GDKP and dont do that much raid cause i'm personnaly more interested in PVP and thats a good way to get in prepare to PVP in my opignon ! You work like a PRO btw Thank you for that
But what if you get in a group with people who botted gold and have far far more than you, and you cant outbid anyone and come out the raid with no loot?
@@dafire9634you’re still getting gold tho
@@dafire9634 yeah thats happends half of the time and botting is so sad.... in this case i'll just let them bid and do the raid just to earn more gold and bid on the next raid or get prepare for a softres one but if your server is full of "GdkpBotraiders" it inevitably suck a lot
What you’re earning is bottled gold almost without a doubt. And therefore you’re part of the problem.
Im not really into the raiding scene, I mostly play for socializing and doing stuff like fishing and making potions. Would a reasonable solution be to cap the amount of gold that players could bring to the raid? I know that greed gets in the way of things often, but if people were capped at like...idk 10-25k gold, would that help stymy some of the more ridiculous sums paid for items? Anyway have a good day everyone
They would just handle it at the bank before hand.
The fact is GDKPs are undeniably linked to gold botting. When you run one you’re directly fueling that system. As a result it creates a spiraling situation where “If I can’t beat em I’ll join em.” The inflated economy then punishes normal gold farming out in the world.
If we could elliminate GDKPs or ensure botting was banned (or unprofitable for botters) then we’d revalue farming in the open world and the true value of having earned a piece of gear through the community and teamwork of a guild. And the economy wouldn’t be deflated (AND THIS IS KEY) therefore your farming methods would actually take less effort for the gold than they do now.
Amazing run + immortal thanks, these epics are replaced straight away in ulduar black proto drakes and immortal are not
It's a bit ironic that the one thing people craved for the most was the sense of community in vanilla through wotlk. Now that they have it.. the main thing killing the game is the community
You think you do...
I was on Stormrage US in vanilla - there weren't GDKP'S but the top guilds were absolutely selling spots where you could hoover up most gear drops all the way in BWL already.
Allow me to be the warrior main that points out you mixed up Drake Fang Talisman and Dragonspine Trophy a couple times.
He successfully baited you to boost him in the algorithm. I promise you TH-camrs purposefully fuck up on naming something to bait comments.
@@420OngBak Here you go bro, you dropped your tinfoil hat.
I have 8 alchemists prepared for phase 3, but now it sinks in that doing gdkp's is just way more lucrative..
GDKP is RMT with extra steps.
I'm glad that I play on Thekal. Havn't seen almost any gdkps. If any1 posts about it in general chat then everyone mocks em and tells them to play on Gehennas if they want gdkp.
So happy I didn’t roll on that server if that’s the case 😂
@@TGShunai Because you like GDKP? Good for you :)
@@Astronic yeah, I hate farming gold. For me GDKP is a win-win situation, I either get loot, or I get some gold for next weeks run ;)
@@TGShunai Yep that's problem. So there is no point playing the game how it was supposed to be: farming etc. Im glad some ppl enjoy gdkp and play on those realms. Im happy I can be on a realm where almost everyone have to get gold traditionall way like proffs, farming, grinding etc.
I used to play on Gehennas and it felt pointless to play the game. Just go in and do 1 gdkp cause it was by far the best way to make gold. Not fun according to me.
NGL I've raided in pugs exclusively with my warr alt and I'm over 50% bis now. I got into a sick pugs disc and they only thing they HR is the key which is understandable.
I miss the old days, it’s the reason why I’ve never joined a guild on Pyrewood, no one seems to be recruiting a levelling paladin, it’s all gear score, impatient players wanting me to tank at 200 miles an hour, and I’m used to chain pulling. I’m level 55 now, likely quit when I hit 80 because I hate dungeons with randoms, I miss playing with a decent guild but they don’t seem to exist any more.
But, it is strange, how while the game gets easier (in terms of methods to gear up) the GDKP increases, I mean in Wolk you can gear up relatively easy compared to vanilla and TBC, but it was in this expantion when the phenomenon got more popular...
Huh, I played up through Legion and never heard of GDKP until Classic. I really don't think it actually became widespread until them....at least not in NA.
The majority of players who hate all this GDKP. Left.
They aren't making the argument because they left.
And blizz isn't going to try and get us back.
he said others need items and the once who dont need items need the gold, what exactly does a person who doesnt even need any items, why does that person need gold? to buy what?
I just cannot wrap my head around people having obtained 200 thousand gold manually and legitimately, and then pouring all that gold into one item that will be replaceable in a few weeks. Seriously, the one thing I struggle the most in the game is making gold, with the limited amount of playtime I get. GDKPs actually make me a bit uncomfortable.
You shouldn't go to gdkps cuz the gold u get at the end is bought gold so it disappears sometimes
The extreme usage of gdkp and the bots that follow, is the prime reason why I won't play classic, until blizz does something about it, and that something is banning gdkp.
Gdkp itself cannot be banned and is also not against any kind of tos? Just an alternative looting system. Don’t get me wrong, i hate gdkp/p2w too but as far as for what blizzard can or will do, its pretty limited. I don’t see them banning gold buyers/sellers as they also profit a lot from it [wow token]
@@Blubking1 Blizz can change the TOS if they find it necessary, like they did with multiboxing, and advertising boosts (in retail).99% of the gold in gdkp is bot farmed of bought with real money. Banning gdkp is the only solution, as long as blizz can't get the their shit together and start doing hardware bans on all bots, even first time offenses. But blizz seems to be contend just letting the bots run the economies, on ALL classic servers. So letting gdkp stay right now is just inviting bots to the game.
if they won't fix botting wtf makes you think they're gonna fix gdkp? it'd literally be easier to fix botting than to fix an entire loot system
@@aomforever Yes just that "banning" boosts and mulitboxing took them about 16 years to do it and still hasn't changed anything. In retail, people are still boosting.
@@Blubking1Turns out it can be banned
Wish there was a feasible way to introduce an ironman mechanic into wow, but I cant really think of a way to hard-implement it aside from self inflicted restrictions
It'll never stop amazing me how people continuously find new ways to destroy something.
i love GDKPs cause i control whether or not i get an item and i refuse to spend hours farming when i can do a full 10m Ulduar w/ Alg in 2-3 hours and cash out 8-15k
You don't though.
I ran one today, as our raid group collapsed as soon as I hit 60 because of the fresh announcement. Sucks for me, so I joined a ZG GDKP to st least get some raiding in.
I bought one item I could afford and the pushy jajas running the thing tried to steal my cut because I wasn't bidding on gear I didn't need (non dps gear). They even tried to kick me from the raid because I wasn't bidding on mail items.
My character is a shadow priest.
GDKPs are trash. The shitheads who run them are pushy gold sellers who get paid using the gold their buyers purchase through RMT. It's a fucking toxic loop and you're blind if you can't see that.
Wouldn’t the easiest way to stop GDKPs be to remove master loot from non guild runs?
All this gdkp is heartbreaking, I joined classic at end of tbc and ghe gdkp spam was enormous. I just wanted to enjoy a progression type adventure, but you can't have that anymore.
Ofc you can, just join a guild.
@@rizzcs6018 I did and all is good, but it's just sad that gdkp infests the game like this.
@@gabrielilie4460 people like it. That's the way they wanna play. Do you have a problem with that?
@@ForOne814yeah, I do. So does Blizzard.
@@JordanR and I was right, the consequences of DGKP ban were terrible, and people did leave because of it.
GDKPs were fine in vanilla classic but in TBCC it became a full on industry and really ruined some servers.
You act like these prices are crazy but... If you attend 25 raids, on average you would get the ENTIRE pot from a single raid, which means that its just as useful, and more equitable, than having loot council, or traditional DKP.
Not how it works. At all.
Hey, good thing that if GDKP isn’t your thing, you can just not do it. Lol easy as that. Just join a guild/group that don’t do GDKPs. You’re welcome.
Gdkp was nearly unheard of before wow token popularized buying gold. At least it was nieche before
11:17 "People are just generally much better at the game" - also shows people getting hit by firewall.
I see what you did there with that last statement. Because wow is a waste of time no matter what you are doing in the game, that is the beauty of it all. But peoples think that by playing efficiently they are somehow not wasting their time in a video game, the irony in this is delightful. If you don't want to "waste your time" don't play the game at all xD
Every game ever made is made to waste your time , where the fuck have you been?
If only people min-maxed their lives like they do it in the game. We'd all be successful and rich. And corrupt.
If you spend a lot of time on a videogame without playing the game you are not wasting time on a video game, 500iq move
I run with my main in my guild, and since we have no other raid teams i run 3 toons in a gdkp ive been with for about 7 months now. The misconception gdkps replace community is bonkers to me. While the guild raid logs and doesn't talk much in discord or in game, the gdkp im a part of is organizing sr 10 mans, achievement runs, and other events. I don't personally buy gold, but I benefit from the people that allegedly do. I also benefit from the community there being more interesting than my guild half the time. You can dislike gdkps and not participate in them, and that's more than fine. But they aren't all cesspools. Thankfully, consumables are cheap and crafting materials are plentiful, I dont think people who don't gdkp are being adversely affected by the existence of gold buyers. Just because you don't like an aspect of the game doesn't mean you should be hoping it gets banned or removed, just report anyone advertising in trade (which everyone should do) and enjoy playing with your friends.
THIS
I'm sure there are plenty of others saying, but I'm fine with GDKP as long as people legitimately earned the gold. But it doesn't take too many people buying gold for the system to become flush with gold and ruin the entire economy. You would need Blizzard to come down hard on anyone botting or buying, but they simply don't see it as that large of a concern, as long as the botters are paying for the sub.
You dont need to buy gold to be able to afford items at ridiculous prices, you just need to do GDKPs and get gold from others buying items at ridiculous prices.
I agree with you but as long as you don’t know who is buying or not, it’s just a terrible system. I’ve talked to many on my server and gold buying is actually a big thing. I know someone that buys $100 each week. It’s hilarious
Funny how everyone whined about dungeon boost but GDKP are fine, when I bet 100% of the gold is RMT. I mean I saw Warglaives at the end of TBC being sold on my server for 200k like come on.
I had the 0.5 set, took ages to get, then TBC came a long and made it obsolete so fast, I was gutted (wasn't raiding back then)
I personally hate gdkps. But I understand it's the nature of the beast. Specially when the handlers keep the cage open
What if a game had a small cap on how much gold you can have on your account? Like a legend of zelda wallet? It would encourage people to spend their gold regularily so they don't lose any from being goldcapped. There could be multiple items that would cost close to gold cap, leave everything affordable, and instantly solve inflation.
They'd just sell off a bunch of stuff and mail the gold later after the raid. Or just run off with the drop. I'm all for the second option if it stops this pattern.
I see several flaws in that legic:
- If you make cap character specific then people will just switch to their alt
- if you make the cap account wide then people will either:
a) not play the game (which is bad)
b) get a separate account (this is what botters will do)
People will re-invest their gold into expensive comodities whose price doesn't fluctuate as much for example the engineering motocycle mats, some of those mats cost up to 3k gold and there will always be a demand for the engi motocyle thus you can invest your spare gold into those parts craft multiple motos and basically trade in bikes lmao
I remember doing GDKP's in OG ICC as well. We did quite a few heroic mode bosses as well, basically all of them minus LK and end wing bosses. The rest were very puggable.
GDKP
Was so bad it created the gold buying economy 😂
It seems to me that the problem people have with GDKPs is a perspective issue. If you are going to one because you need gear, that means you don't have a guild, or it's an alt that you don't have a raid spot for. Why would a normal player not have a guild to raid with to get it for free? Maybe scheduling issues or something. For that person, having a guaranteed spot because he did extra questing and dailies for a bit, buying a piece here and there, after a few weeks is swimming in gold from the payout. Now he's got a bankroll to buy the higher ticket items. For that player, and similar players, this system works. For everyone else, and I can't say it enough, START YOUR OWN GROUP! If everyone that cried about GDKP started their own MS>OS group, that's all there would be.
And yes, I agree, it does make people want to buy gold, but let's be honest, they were gonna do that anyway, just for a lesser amount.
Boosting (SM runs etc) were a way to allow alts needed by guilds to get to the correct level and gear setup to actually assist the guild in clearing content
I've never done a GDKP run before but I like the idea of being able to get the item you really want as long as you are willing to throw more money at it then anyone else in the raid. It sucks losing the roll to other people week after week.