In this episode we discuss: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:00:09 - Layne’s childhood and why he gravitated towards weightlifting and bodybuilding 00:10:25 - Layne’s academic path, overcoming ADHD, and kicking Adderall 00:21:35 - Paradoxical observations about expertise, and Layne’s career transition to health and fitness 00:33:05 - The power of persistence and resilience in the face of setbacks 00:45:00 - Battling injuries, managing back pain, and setting lifting records 01:01:20 - Bodybuilding vs. powerlifting: comparing and contrasting the training approaches 01:10:45 - Cutting weight without losing muscle mass: exercise and dietary protocols, fasting, and a look at the literature 01:31:35 - Muscle protein synthesis and the importance of leucine 01:44:12 - Nitrogen balance and muscle protein synthesis, and the regulatory role of hormones for fat flux and muscle growth 01:54:13 - What’s really driving muscle growth: intrinsic vs. systemic factors, IGF, and hormone signaling 02:03:45 - The role of protein, carbohydrates and insulin on muscle growth and preservation, and the importance of context when interpreting study results 02:16:53 - Clarifying the role of cortisol-a misunderstood hormone 02:24:30 - The problem with studies trying to isolate one nutrient 02:29:05 - The important role of inflammation from exercise 02:33:47 - Keys to preserving muscle, and the value of habits, consistency, and resilience
Layne's comments on confidence is spot on. And that small building block style is the key to even dealing with depression and anxiety. And it needs to be positively reinforced.
Layne's experience with having to work hard as a kid, which set him up for success later, strongly resonate with me, since I'm the exact opposite. I was the kid who, throughout primary and secondary (high) school never had to study for anything and would still get good grades all around. I could probably count on my fingers the number of hours I spent studying through high school. However, this meant I went to university utterly unprepared to actually study, and I dropped out without obtaining a degree. I'm lucky enough to still have landed an excellent career in IT, still working at a masters degree level position, but at 32, I still have difficulty actually having to study for something
I am a medical doctor trained in physical medicine with fellowship training in both orthopedics and interventional spine medicine. I’ve been in practice nearly 40 years. At around minute 50:00, Layne is talking about his injury. He said the MRI showed disk herniations and Stuart McGill told him not to be concerned about it because many asymptomatic people have the same. The injury Layne is describing sounds much more like a sacroiliac joint subluxation. This does not show up on x-ray or MRI and so things that DO show up often tend to be blamed for the problem. People generally do not feel “locked up“ with a disk herniation. That is a mechanical symptom and sacroiliac subluxation is a mechanical problem. The sacrum is the platform for all the loading that happens through the spine and with weight lifting that is enormous. There’s nothing underneath the sacrum so there’s a tremendous shearing force that happens across the SI joint that can exceed the strength of the ligaments and then the joint shifts a little bit. The surfaces are rough and irregular and not made to move against each other so when it moves it can lock up and be excruciatingly painful to the point where the person can’t move. I have had patients hospitalized due to the severity of the pain for this problem. Richard Norris,MD
@@lf7065 Yes-I do often prescribe manual therapy which can be done by DO's, specially trained PT's and DC's. But it's also important to not overlook both active and passive joint stabilization in order to avoid repeated SI subluxations.
Been a while since I clicked this quick. Truthseekers unite. LOVE to see great people like you collab. We need more people like you who seek objective scientifically based analysis.
Not sure why but @PeterAttia brought out the best in @LaneNorton here. Two totally different personalities yet a productive conversation. No controversial statements while also stating some inarguable truths. Good content from both
Who was that vegan doctor that told-off Peter about recommending taking Leucine due to mTOR dangers? Was it Longo? Is that the reason why Longo has not appeared in the show?
I was so looking forward to getting info from these two of my favorites. However, it seemed that it was geared toward other scientists and I could not understand the medicalese. I would like to hear their thoughts in layman’s terms; not words you need to learn another language utilize.
Haven't watched the whole thing yet, but from the timestamps doesn't seem like they directly touched upon Calories In vs Calories Out. I wish they had, Layne is a big proponent of CICO, whereas Peter has written that the reality is a lot more nuanced than that. Would have been interesting to hear about the basis for Layne's position on this.
I've landed on, "Try CICO strictly and see if it works, if it doesn't then try other shit because CICO doesn't always work, and other shit can work too". I was recently told by a CICO proponent coach (Also a TH-camr) that my body probably doesn't didn't handle carbs well and I should eliminate them as much as possible. I think a lot of these guys take hard stances to get clicks and simplify things for the 70% of people that standard CICO would work for.
@@kami_dende By CICO, I'm referring to the idea that the influx/efflux of fat stores in your body depends only on the calorific value of the food you consume, and not the actual type of food.
Holy Crap! I loved this episode! I am obese, and have recently picked up resistance training ( maybe just over 1 month) and doing OMAD for few months. This episode so jam packed with information, I find it fascinating! I need to rewatch this again and again to make sense of so much information! Thanks Dr Attia and Dr Norton for doing this collab! What a legend!
Good luck on your journey, man, you got this. Make small changes, stay consistent, and you’ll be there in no time. Layne has a great playlist called why diets fail that kept me motivated and on track that I would recommend. Fwiw, it took me many failed attempts and years before it finally clicked. So from a stranger on the Internet, you can do it 💪💪
I almost didn't listen to this one. I'm very interested in healthy aging, but not particularly interested in power lifting or bodybuilding. I thought I'd listen for just the first few minutes. Almost three hours later 😏 .... another excellent discussion. Dr Attia is such a great interviewer.
I love these podcasts, but want to give some constructive criticism. Sometimes a question is asked, then before the interviewee can answer, some more facts are presented, maybe another question is added. Then the interviewee starts to answer, but first some statements are made to set up the answer. But some of these statements are interesting so another question is asked on these qualifying statements and a discussion around this starts. Suddenly it is very hard to remember what was the intial question was if it even gets answered. It would be easier to follow if you first 1 say the facts, then 2 ask the question, then 3 wait for then answer, then 4 ask the follow up question. 1,2,3,4 not 2,1,4,3.
Dr. Attia is an esteemed scientist first and accordingly an intelligent MD. We lack good thinkers amongst the majority of doctors out there. PLEASE, I kindly ask you to give us YOUR valuable and frank opinion on plant based diet in relationship to Heart Disease, Artherogenesis, Reversal of arteriosclerosis, ALSO relationships with muscle tissue maintenance. A lot of us are lost, and we need an "AUTHORITY" and an intelligent minded man like you make some sense out of this very important subject. Many thanks to all your efforts
Hey Guys, Any guesses as to which 'famous' vegan doctor Dr. Peter Attia was talking about (I have narrowed it down to Dr. Greger, Dr Barnard, Dr. Mcdougle) My guess is McDugle cuz he's lost it and completely brain dead.
For any organizational psychology geeks out there, the discussion of letting go of the old identity before accepting the new (healthy) identity - sounds a lot like Kurt Lewin's change theory, doesn't it?
Peter, thanks for putting this up, I watch all of your TH-cam videos that you put up. I am not a subscriber to your podcast for all the obvious reasons but I absolutely get do much from your stuff. I am 100% not learned enough to understand but a small % but I do get enough to give me a relative slingshot from where I started in regards to all things "longevity"; from these insights I feel in some control of my well-being. At 68 I can outwit, outplay and outlast. Cheers Alan
So you mentioned that you used to train 4-5 hours a day and now you only train about 90 minutes a day. For a second there the reality of that it seemed kind of depressing so doing a regular training split that the average person does where training every other day and just trying to maintain a healthy body is it even possible to change your physique under a "regular" person schedule? Or is the only way that my body is going to change gonna require me to live in the gym cuz? if that's the case, then I need to become a paid model so that I'm getting paid to work out 🤣 busy mom / soul provider/business owner does not give me four to five hours a day for the gym, even 90 minutes a day in the gym is hard.
This is an extremely honest conversation, refreshingly so. Some highlights: 00:35:00 - detrimental effects of early success? 00:41:00 - Set backs, endurance, confidence 01:05:00 - Body building as a preferred mode of suffering :) 01:45:00 - Delicate issues in Metabolism (Protein and Fat) 02:35:00 - Habits and consistency 02:38:00 - Forming new identity
I have always liked Layne, had to stop following him about a year ago as he got to shrill and negative, good to see he has matured or maybe I have matured… anyway I like the this side of Layne, versus his attack videos……🙏💪
I actually agree. I know he's in battle mode but his abrasiveness can get old despite the quality of information. I think in this case, it's a little bit about mutual respect and the context. He's hardly battling internet trolls with Peter
Layne's just abit insecure about his intelligence and that's why he's a worshipper of science. He uses the word every chance he gets to signal his education. If you can get past his posturing he's probably okay, but not a great guy nor brilliant mind.
Normally I would love to see Norton get crushed buy I have a horrible feeling this will be absolute love fest between these two with a lot agreeing and back peddling from prior statements made both by Peter Attia and Layne Norton himself.
Hahaha what statements do you think they did/could back pedal on. From my understanding they both agree it's calories in vs. calories out however Peter just thinks on a week by week basis fasting is the best way to achieve this. Layne is awesome for calling out the bullshit online while not giving a fuck about what people think about him.
Evansville IN...that was the location of the 2nd ADFPA national championship that I attended. I think that was in 1991. The concept of periodization was well known in the late 1980s and talked about a lot. It was standard practice for powerlifters. I also struggled in school. I had a high-school guidance counselor tell me I was not smart enough to be an engineer. I went to college, studied much, much more than my classmates, made Deens list, graduated.... Here I am decades later with a successful career, a patent to my name. F*ck that guidance counselor. If she knew anything about career choices, she wouldn't be a guidance counselor. 😂 Here I am decades
@@SLude480 Yeah I get your point but I'm really on par with my previous diet. I just wanted to tell this so that people don't get scared by the interviewer telling people they will take years to get back to their previous levels if they were to try keto diet.
@@SLude480 He said it took him like 18 months to get back to where he was aerobically speaking while he was doing keto... By the way I'm not here to argue :)
@@FredoCorleone I’ll have to re-listen. But yeah- anecdote there too. 👌 from what I’ve seen and heard and experienced(was keto for 4 years), people’s athletic response to keto can be wildly different. There’s runners, and there are people who can CrossFit on it. Then there’s people that can’t. Human biology is wild.
I think there's an important caveat to much of what he was stating or describing. We don't all physically or mentally respond in the same way to the conditions he's discussing. I'm able to slim down and gain hypertrophy at the same time with no trouble. When I calorie restrict, my body adapts to the my new eating habits, and while I'm working out hard as well, I don't experience any appreciable increase in hunger. I am actually less hungry than during periods where I am sedintary, relatively speaking. It's easier for me to calorie restrict and eat well when I'm exercising routinely. Also, calorie restriction had the opposite effect on my libido. It elevated substantially. I experienced elevated mood, energy levels, and between exercise in a fasted state, along with calorie restriction, my struggle with depression diminished substantially. So did my social anxiety. Whether we're talking about drugs, nutrition, coloric intake, or exercise, many are affected substantially different. A nutritionist who has a channel on nutrition and fitness once commented that she had to back off running because it elevates her anxiety. It does just the opposite for me.
I consider Dr Attia to be my spirit animal on medical advice. I dedicated to a Keto diet because of him (still do), I took up fasting cause of him (and Dr. Jason Fung), I follow his longevity advice. But I also no follow Layne and find him to be pretty fair and reasonable. For a lot of us (I was pre-diabetic, had NAFLD, etc), Keto is a bit of a necessity to address metabolic fitness. But I love to hear these guys discuss the science. It is depressingly hard to find the ground truth here. It's soooo complicated (and I worked in a nobel prize winning lab at a Med School - I love science!).
@@ayeshavlogsfun As I said I follow both so I'm aware of their stances. Also, as I said, because I had non-alcoholic fatty liver and insulin resistance I prioritized cutting my carbs to the bone over all other nutrition goals. I think if you're obese/insulin resistant, you're much better off to address that first with a Keto approach til you restore metabolic health. Now I can binge on carbs for a day and not really have a huge reaction. Blood sugar spikes, and then falls quickly. But I still eat very low carb.
Movement is healing. It’s not a question of do you exercise, it is question of what type, how intense and what duration. With regard to pain, pain is predominantly chemical, mechanical and psychological. Depending on the combination of these types of pain dictates the intervention and the success of the outcome.
Amazing episode so much intresting viewpoints. Wondering what the name of the Sytem. Review with marie schreckley on wieghtloss maintinace is? have not been able to find it. Thank a ton
Too much time is wasted not on how to make muscles , really nice examples of ADHD no focusing which makes me feel to lose interest to listen . Hard to listen to empty content people in love of their voices . In these podcasts we are teaching ordinary people.
First of all thank you Dr. Attia and Dr. Norton for all the work you share emotionally, physically, and academically. Loved those old videos of Dr. Norton circa 2000s roaring up the gym in preparation for a big set! Definitely inspired me to reach 500#s on Deadlift. I can’t imagine putting myself out on social media for so long being one of the originals to focus on muscle protein synthesis in that arena. The social media world is a crazy place to navigate to say the least. Loved the shoutout to Stu McGill, have been referencing the McGill Bird Dog to clients for years! We need more doctors lifting heavy!…Lets GO! Thanks for not following the surgeon route Dr. Attia haha Good luck in your muscle building journey. Time to ease up on the fasting and lift heavy focusing on alignment. Create options through perfect alignment and BREATH! Best.
At 1:14:00 Lane talks about the increasing difficulty of losing fat without losing muscle, as one gets leaner. My analogy is pouring fat off the drippings of a roast: the more fat you pour off, the harder it is not to start pouring off the broth [muscle]. And you can do it, but you gotta go slow.
This was the best flowing conversation on TH-cam yet. I really liked the part Layne talked about his own experiences and that made him in my eyes very interesting and charismatic person. I really like his balanced approach and that he isn't afraid to say he doesn't know something for sure (too many experts on everything on TH-cam these days!) And the amount of wisdom he acquired for a 39 yrs old is truly astonishing. Both Peter Attia and Layne Norton are always a pleasure to listen to!
Peter, Layne, What about a fast of all but protein? I've done 36 hours fasts no food, but I've also done them with a couple corepower protein shakes, 84g of protein spread across a day, 460 calories total. I suspect that might have issues for Peter's goals at the cellular level, but for me it feels like an easy way to get a big caloric deficit quickly and without as much effort as a full fast.
3hr video but took me 4hrs to finish cuz some part I have to listen few times to digest and some I even need to google to read up more details. Enjoy it so much. By the time the video end, I realize I want to listen more, there is so much to learn. Thank you for the great video, by the way this is the first time I came across ur channel and just start to subscribe.
The last 10 minutes of this discussion are very plain-english and worthy of a highlight reel. Appreciate you steering the discussion in that direction. Looking forward to part 2, whenever it happens.
Thanks for breaking things down for the average listener. I am a teacher and don't have a background in medicine, but this was manageable to understand.
Luis Villasenor from Ketogains would be a great counterpoint to this discussion. Otherwise we may have to put low carb/ketogenic diets into the "easiest way to achieve health and a decent physique while maintaining athletic performance in most endeavors" category. I dont understand how Norton can assert that he could isocalorically replace fat with sugar and "probably" not have any effect? Dont we KNOW from Robert Lustigs work on replacement of fructose with starch (which was isocaloric) in children that it cleared up fatty liver. Certainly if there is that big of a difference metabolically even between carbohydrates the difference between fats and carbohydrates in metabolic effects can not be zero.
50 lbs muscle/yr x 0.30 = 15 lbs proteins/365 days/yr= 0.041 lbs/day protein x 1/454 grams =19 grams/day of protein needed to put on 50 lbs muscle per year. So, more realisctically 10 lbs muscle/yr is 4 grams per day extra protein.
Loved this collab! Didn't expect it but I'm super happy it happened. Looking forward to the next (several?) sessions, especially since you can both intelligently talk through some of the more nuanced science.
Gurlllll you crack me and not trying to sound weird but you are a younger version of me!!!! Omgggggg I need to read those books you recommend because you freaking made me realize I have a freaking binge eating disorder. I’ve been struggling to lose weight my WHOLE life. And I said that by age 50 I wanted to get on stage but thyroid issues kicked in and then covid. Well I’m not giving up!!!!!! I need to get those books and share my story as a middle age woman!!!!! We need to talk!!! I love you girl!!!
Thinking about an old boyfriend who was asking about HFCS-is it bad for you His sister was a big conservative who just loved the cornfield commercials I was starting to find out then about the general problem of processed foods so recommended against its use and sweeteners of all kinds including nice natural pothead lovers honey The next thing I remember was I was a problem because I hate America and corn Luckily she disappeared back into her Fox News Bubble I paid very much more attention to this episode than anything else I’ve seen on your show. At this point I can aim for body building and hope for some longevity if I get a little lean body mass before I turn 70. I’d like to come see Dr Attia and make him my doctor but I need to practice dead hang and standing up and sitting in a chair first Pathetic! But hopeful!!
Thanks for all the great info. Is there a special TV you need to make your guest appear in your podcast like that so clearly? Asking from the podcast set up perspective
In today's world we're bombarded with information we need to get the info quickly. You could probably have cut this podcast down by half by just cutting the literal amount words in half and getting to the point.
I’ve been with a PT for the last 14 weeks and I’ve managed to get my goal weight in that’s time, and go back to the gym which was super scary for me. Starting to tone up and get my strength training in now!
In this episode we discuss:
00:00:00 - Intro
00:00:09 - Layne’s childhood and why he gravitated towards weightlifting and bodybuilding
00:10:25 - Layne’s academic path, overcoming ADHD, and kicking Adderall
00:21:35 - Paradoxical observations about expertise, and Layne’s career transition to health and fitness
00:33:05 - The power of persistence and resilience in the face of setbacks
00:45:00 - Battling injuries, managing back pain, and setting lifting records
01:01:20 - Bodybuilding vs. powerlifting: comparing and contrasting the training approaches
01:10:45 - Cutting weight without losing muscle mass: exercise and dietary protocols, fasting, and a look at the literature
01:31:35 - Muscle protein synthesis and the importance of leucine
01:44:12 - Nitrogen balance and muscle protein synthesis, and the regulatory role of hormones for fat flux and muscle growth
01:54:13 - What’s really driving muscle growth: intrinsic vs. systemic factors, IGF, and hormone signaling
02:03:45 - The role of protein, carbohydrates and insulin on muscle growth and preservation, and the importance of context when interpreting study results
02:16:53 - Clarifying the role of cortisol-a misunderstood hormone
02:24:30 - The problem with studies trying to isolate one nutrient
02:29:05 - The important role of inflammation from exercise
02:33:47 - Keys to preserving muscle, and the value of habits, consistency, and resilience
Io
8:54 😊
I can't belive this is free
Right?!
Is it?
The device you use, the way you access all costs.
Thankfully the information is not behind a paywall.
😀
Don't give him any ideas!
Layne's comments on confidence is spot on. And that small building block style is the key to even dealing with depression and anxiety. And it needs to be positively reinforced.
This was awesome. You guys do an amazing job of letting each other speak and finish an idea. Very refreshing!!
Layne's experience with having to work hard as a kid, which set him up for success later, strongly resonate with me, since I'm the exact opposite.
I was the kid who, throughout primary and secondary (high) school never had to study for anything and would still get good grades all around. I could probably count on my fingers the number of hours I spent studying through high school. However, this meant I went to university utterly unprepared to actually study, and I dropped out without obtaining a degree.
I'm lucky enough to still have landed an excellent career in IT, still working at a masters degree level position, but at 32, I still have difficulty actually having to study for something
I don’t see the shark video! Any chance you still have it? Amazing podcast by the way!
Absolutely fantastic! Two big brains sharing life changing information for free. I can’t wait for part 2! Thank you gentlemen!🙏🏻💪🙏🏻
I am a medical doctor trained in physical medicine with fellowship training in both orthopedics and interventional spine medicine. I’ve been in practice nearly 40 years.
At around minute 50:00, Layne is talking about his injury. He said the MRI showed disk herniations and Stuart McGill told him not to be concerned about it because many asymptomatic people have the same. The injury Layne is describing sounds much more like a sacroiliac joint subluxation. This does not show up on x-ray or MRI and so things that DO show up often tend to be blamed for the problem. People generally do not feel “locked up“ with a disk herniation. That is a mechanical symptom and sacroiliac subluxation is a mechanical problem. The sacrum is the platform for all the loading that happens through the spine and with weight lifting that is enormous. There’s nothing underneath the sacrum so there’s a tremendous shearing force that happens across the SI joint that can exceed the strength of the ligaments and then the joint shifts a little bit. The surfaces are rough and irregular and not made to move against each other so when it moves it can lock up and be excruciatingly painful to the point where the person can’t move. I have had patients hospitalized due to the severity of the pain for this problem.
Richard Norris,MD
That's where a good chiropractor can help, from my personal experience! 🙂
@@lf7065 Yes-I do often prescribe manual therapy which can be done by DO's, specially trained PT's and DC's. But it's also important to not overlook both active and passive joint stabilization in order to avoid repeated SI subluxations.
Been a while since I clicked this quick. Truthseekers unite. LOVE to see great people like you collab. We need more people like you who seek objective scientifically based analysis.
That should be really interesting. Time for popcorn.
This was IMO 1 of the best health, fitness and lifestyle podcasts ever by any standard. Fantastic. Bring on part 2
Not sure why but @PeterAttia brought out the best in @LaneNorton here. Two totally different personalities yet a productive conversation. No controversial statements while also stating some inarguable truths. Good content from both
Stick till' the end. The part on consistency and creating a whole new You is simply awesome and will resonate with everyone. Super stuff!
Who was that vegan doctor that told-off Peter about recommending taking Leucine due to mTOR dangers?
Was it Longo? Is that the reason why Longo has not appeared in the show?
omg how fantastic this was, what a geat guy this guest is, and Peter’s pods in general…fantastic, unbelievable…👊🏻💪🏻🤗🙋🏻♂️
I was so looking forward to getting info from these two of my favorites. However, it seemed that it was geared toward other scientists and I could not understand the medicalese. I would like to hear their thoughts in layman’s terms; not words you need to learn another language utilize.
Agreed, I was lost so quickly. You almost need a PowerPoint presentation to with it all
Gtfo then the
Haven't watched the whole thing yet, but from the timestamps doesn't seem like they directly touched upon Calories In vs Calories Out. I wish they had, Layne is a big proponent of CICO, whereas Peter has written that the reality is a lot more nuanced than that. Would have been interesting to hear about the basis for Layne's position on this.
I've landed on, "Try CICO strictly and see if it works, if it doesn't then try other shit because CICO doesn't always work, and other shit can work too".
I was recently told by a CICO proponent coach (Also a TH-camr) that my body probably doesn't didn't handle carbs well and I should eliminate them as much as possible. I think a lot of these guys take hard stances to get clicks and simplify things for the 70% of people that standard CICO would work for.
You’re probably confusing CICO with counting calories / macros. CICO is just energy balance.
@@s.h306 CICO is literally the way your body loses weight.
@@haydenthediggerinajtes9919 I urge you to look up Peter's blog post on this topic - "Do calories matter?"
@@kami_dende By CICO, I'm referring to the idea that the influx/efflux of fat stores in your body depends only on the calorific value of the food you consume, and not the actual type of food.
We need more of these kinds of conversations going on....
Ok bro
@@zxsw85 ok
A great conversation! I can't wait for part 2. I especially liked the last two sections starting a 2:29.
Holy Crap! I loved this episode! I am obese, and have recently picked up resistance training ( maybe just over 1 month) and doing OMAD for few months. This episode so jam packed with information, I find it fascinating! I need to rewatch this again and again to make sense of so much information! Thanks Dr Attia and Dr Norton for doing this collab! What a legend!
Good luck on your journey, man, you got this. Make small changes, stay consistent, and you’ll be there in no time. Layne has a great playlist called why diets fail that kept me motivated and on track that I would recommend.
Fwiw, it took me many failed attempts and years before it finally clicked. So from a stranger on the Internet, you can do it 💪💪
I almost didn't listen to this one. I'm very interested in healthy aging, but not particularly interested in power lifting or bodybuilding. I thought I'd listen for just the first few minutes. Almost three hours later 😏 .... another excellent discussion. Dr Attia is such a great interviewer.
no links to any of your guests online stuff...really? wth
Listening to this while working today was a life saver, thx doc
Can you publish diagrams of the analogies between amino acid recycling and fatty acid recycling you talk about around 1:47:00?
Layne is quite responsive to comments on Instagram. Maybe try him there
Fuck this just gets better and better as it goes. The last 45 minutes hits with so many life lessons I need to watch it again.
Putting a fake scientist like Norton makes me lose a lot of respect for any podcast that puts him on...he likes to invent his own facts...
Best podcast episode I’ve ever seen on the topic of muscle, fitness or nutrition. Thanks so much.
Is it possible to get a relatively simple answer and a complex answer? I didn’t understand anything in the second half of this interview
I love these podcasts, but want to give some constructive criticism. Sometimes a question is asked, then before the interviewee can answer, some more facts are presented, maybe another question is added. Then the interviewee starts to answer, but first some statements are made to set up the answer. But some of these statements are interesting so another question is asked on these qualifying statements and a discussion around this starts. Suddenly it is very hard to remember what was the intial question was if it even gets answered. It would be easier to follow if you first 1 say the facts, then 2 ask the question, then 3 wait for then answer, then 4 ask the follow up question. 1,2,3,4 not 2,1,4,3.
I could listen to these guys all day
Love the mentioning of ADHD
100%
Followed this pretty well until 1hr 47 and then got lost.
Arrrr maaan! You jumped in and totally throw the convo off when it was getting intresting on igf1.
Dr. Attia is an esteemed scientist first and accordingly an intelligent MD. We lack good thinkers amongst the majority of doctors out there. PLEASE, I kindly ask you to give us YOUR valuable and frank opinion on plant based diet in relationship to Heart Disease, Artherogenesis, Reversal of arteriosclerosis, ALSO relationships with muscle tissue maintenance. A lot of us are lost, and we need an "AUTHORITY" and an intelligent minded man like you make some sense out of this very important subject. Many thanks to all your efforts
Hey Guys, Any guesses as to which 'famous' vegan doctor Dr. Peter Attia was talking about (I have narrowed it down to Dr. Greger, Dr Barnard, Dr. Mcdougle)
My guess is McDugle cuz he's lost it and completely brain dead.
For any organizational psychology geeks out there, the discussion of letting go of the old identity before accepting the new (healthy) identity - sounds a lot like Kurt Lewin's change theory, doesn't it?
SUGGESTION; Love the information, however we know you're a PhD and an MD and can't you explain in English in less than two and a half hours.
Peter, thanks for putting this up, I watch all of your TH-cam videos that you put up. I am not a subscriber to your podcast for all the obvious reasons but I absolutely get do much from your stuff. I am 100% not learned enough to understand but a small % but I do get enough to give me a relative slingshot from where I started in regards to all things "longevity"; from these insights I feel in some control of my well-being. At 68 I can outwit, outplay and outlast. Cheers Alan
So you mentioned that you used to train 4-5 hours a day and now you only train about 90 minutes a day. For a second there the reality of that it seemed kind of depressing so doing a regular training split that the average person does where training every other day and just trying to maintain a healthy body is it even possible to change your physique under a "regular" person schedule? Or is the only way that my body is going to change gonna require me to live in the gym cuz? if that's the case, then I need to become a paid model so that I'm getting paid to work out 🤣 busy mom / soul provider/business owner does not give me four to five hours a day for the gym, even 90 minutes a day in the gym is hard.
This is an extremely honest conversation, refreshingly so.
Some highlights:
00:35:00 - detrimental effects of early success?
00:41:00 - Set backs, endurance, confidence
01:05:00 - Body building as a preferred mode of suffering :)
01:45:00 - Delicate issues in Metabolism (Protein and Fat)
02:35:00 - Habits and consistency
02:38:00 - Forming new identity
I have always liked Layne, had to stop following him about a year ago as he got to shrill and negative, good to see he has matured or maybe I have matured… anyway I like the this side of Layne, versus his attack videos……🙏💪
And this ladies and gents is what is called an underhanded compliment. Passive aggressive
I actually agree. I know he's in battle mode but his abrasiveness can get old despite the quality of information. I think in this case, it's a little bit about mutual respect and the context. He's hardly battling internet trolls with Peter
Layne's just abit insecure about his intelligence and that's why he's a worshipper of science. He uses the word every chance he gets to signal his education. If you can get past his posturing he's probably okay, but not a great guy nor brilliant mind.
Fair critique. He's always in battle mode and it stresses me out. But good dude, interesting topics and smart approach
Layne is an insecure egotist with an abrasive personality who erroneously thinks his work with rodents gives him special insight.
Where is the shark video link?
Normally I would love to see Norton get crushed buy I have a horrible feeling this will be absolute love fest between these two with a lot agreeing and back peddling from prior statements made both by Peter Attia and Layne Norton himself.
Hahaha what statements do you think they did/could back pedal on. From my understanding they both agree it's calories in vs. calories out however Peter just thinks on a week by week basis fasting is the best way to achieve this. Layne is awesome for calling out the bullshit online while not giving a fuck about what people think about him.
@@tobiaswatkins8687 watch his Ted talk and also his interview with Joe Rogan.
But especially the Ted Talk, shorter.
@@tobiaswatkins8687 And what so called “bullshit” is Norton calling out? He is usually the one peddling bullshit.
@@michaelcariello6233 Sugar makes you fat, Fasted cardio is better for fat loss, calories don’t matter etc etc
Evansville IN...that was the location of the 2nd ADFPA national championship that I attended. I think that was in 1991.
The concept of periodization was well known in the late 1980s and talked about a lot. It was standard practice for powerlifters.
I also struggled in school. I had a high-school guidance counselor tell me I was not smart enough to be an engineer. I went to college, studied much, much more than my classmates, made Deens list, graduated.... Here I am decades later with a successful career, a patent to my name. F*ck that guidance counselor. If she knew anything about career choices, she wouldn't be a guidance counselor. 😂
Here I am decades
I perform pretty good on keto diet aerobic-wise. :/
Great. If only we based studies on personal Anecdotes 🙄
@@SLude480 Yeah I get your point but I'm really on par with my previous diet. I just wanted to tell this so that people don't get scared by the interviewer telling people they will take years to get back to their previous levels if they were to try keto diet.
@@FredoCorleone I don’t think that was what was said? Must have missed it.
@@SLude480 He said it took him like 18 months to get back to where he was aerobically speaking while he was doing keto... By the way I'm not here to argue :)
@@FredoCorleone I’ll have to re-listen. But yeah- anecdote there too. 👌 from what I’ve seen and heard and experienced(was keto for 4 years), people’s athletic response to keto can be wildly different. There’s runners, and there are people who can CrossFit on it. Then there’s people that can’t. Human biology is wild.
I like Lanye, intelligent and down to earth.
I think there's an important caveat to much of what he was stating or describing. We don't all physically or mentally respond in the same way to the conditions he's discussing. I'm able to slim down and gain hypertrophy at the same time with no trouble. When I calorie restrict, my body adapts to the my new eating habits, and while I'm working out hard as well, I don't experience any appreciable increase in hunger. I am actually less hungry than during periods where I am sedintary, relatively speaking. It's easier for me to calorie restrict and eat well when I'm exercising routinely. Also, calorie restriction had the opposite effect on my libido. It elevated substantially. I experienced elevated mood, energy levels, and between exercise in a fasted state, along with calorie restriction, my struggle with depression diminished substantially. So did my social anxiety.
Whether we're talking about drugs, nutrition, coloric intake, or exercise, many are affected substantially different. A nutritionist who has a channel on nutrition and fitness once commented that she had to back off running because it elevates her anxiety. It does just the opposite for me.
I consider Dr Attia to be my spirit animal on medical advice. I dedicated to a Keto diet because of him (still do), I took up fasting cause of him (and Dr. Jason Fung), I follow his longevity advice.
But I also no follow Layne and find him to be pretty fair and reasonable. For a lot of us (I was pre-diabetic, had NAFLD, etc), Keto is a bit of a necessity to address metabolic fitness. But I love to hear these guys discuss the science.
It is depressingly hard to find the ground truth here. It's soooo complicated (and I worked in a nobel prize winning lab at a Med School - I love science!).
Bio Lyne is against Keto and Dr Peter attia is no longer Follow keto Brother...
@@ayeshavlogsfun lol Layne is not against keto. He’s against keto myths. His OWN app allows you to choose keto to diet with, if you choose.
@@ayeshavlogsfun As I said I follow both so I'm aware of their stances. Also, as I said, because I had non-alcoholic fatty liver and insulin resistance I prioritized cutting my carbs to the bone over all other nutrition goals. I think if you're obese/insulin resistant, you're much better off to address that first with a Keto approach til you restore metabolic health.
Now I can binge on carbs for a day and not really have a huge reaction. Blood sugar spikes, and then falls quickly. But I still eat very low carb.
Movement is healing. It’s not a question of do you exercise, it is question of what type, how intense and what duration.
With regard to pain, pain is predominantly chemical, mechanical and psychological. Depending on the combination of these types of pain dictates the intervention and the success of the outcome.
Knowledge:
I know a lot of stuff, about a few things.
I know a few things, about a lot of stuff.
I know absolutely nothing, about most things.
I highly dount Shawn Baker isnt taking some test. I ask him, he hasn't responded.
Amazing episode so much intresting viewpoints.
Wondering what the name of the Sytem. Review with marie schreckley on wieghtloss maintinace is? have not been able to find it.
Thank a ton
Too much time is wasted not on how to make muscles , really nice examples of ADHD no focusing which makes me feel to lose interest to listen . Hard to listen to empty content people in love of their voices . In these podcasts we are teaching ordinary people.
I've been waiting for a pod like this. Keep it up!
First of all thank you Dr. Attia and Dr. Norton for all the work you share emotionally, physically, and academically. Loved those old videos of Dr. Norton circa 2000s roaring up the gym in preparation for a big set! Definitely inspired me to reach 500#s on Deadlift. I can’t imagine putting myself out on social media for so long being one of the originals to focus on muscle protein synthesis in that arena. The social media world is a crazy place to navigate to say the least. Loved the shoutout to Stu McGill, have been referencing the McGill Bird Dog to clients for years! We need more doctors lifting heavy!…Lets GO!
Thanks for not following the surgeon route Dr. Attia haha Good luck in your muscle building journey. Time to ease up on the fasting and lift heavy focusing on alignment. Create options through perfect alignment and BREATH!
Best.
Good interview/information. Thanks to both.
At 1:14:00 Lane talks about the increasing difficulty of losing fat without losing muscle, as one gets leaner. My analogy is pouring fat off the drippings of a roast: the more fat you pour off, the harder it is not to start pouring off the broth [muscle]. And you can do it, but you gotta go slow.
This was the best flowing conversation on TH-cam yet. I really liked the part Layne talked about his own experiences and that made him in my eyes very interesting and charismatic person. I really like his balanced approach and that he isn't afraid to say he doesn't know something for sure (too many experts on everything on TH-cam these days!) And the amount of wisdom he acquired for a 39 yrs old is truly astonishing. Both Peter Attia and Layne Norton are always a pleasure to listen to!
I heard this guy Layne one time say that sugar isn't addicting...yea, right.
Peter, Layne,
What about a fast of all but protein? I've done 36 hours fasts no food, but I've also done them with a couple corepower protein shakes, 84g of protein spread across a day, 460 calories total. I suspect that might have issues for Peter's goals at the cellular level, but for me it feels like an easy way to get a big caloric deficit quickly and without as much effort as a full fast.
3hr video but took me 4hrs to finish cuz some part I have to listen few times to digest and some I even need to google to read up more details. Enjoy it so much. By the time the video end, I realize I want to listen more, there is so much to learn. Thank you for the great video, by the way this is the first time I came across ur channel and just start to subscribe.
Substance and nuance on complex subjects like humans seeking optimal health. I am drawn to these bright, yet humble experts. Thanks.
AWESOME,, thanks gents, looking forward to parts 2,3,4,5,6,7,8...
Respect to Layne and Peter for this very interesting podcast. Thank you!!!
The last 10 minutes of this discussion are very plain-english and worthy of a highlight reel. Appreciate you steering the discussion in that direction. Looking forward to part 2, whenever it happens.
Yeah the last part about consistency and identity are so eye-opening
Relatable in so many ways. Podcasts are some of the best content on YT.
That was great advice about a general biology degree.
Thanks for breaking things down for the average listener. I am a teacher and don't have a background in medicine, but this was manageable to understand.
Why aren't you looking at photobiomodulation to blunt inflammation 😊
Peter, explore mTOR, IGF1, Leucine etc. in more detail conversation next time. Thanks.
I forgot how enjoyable this podcast is
Luis Villasenor from Ketogains would be a great counterpoint to this discussion.
Otherwise we may have to put low carb/ketogenic diets into the "easiest way to achieve health and a decent physique while maintaining athletic performance in most endeavors" category.
I dont understand how Norton can assert that he could isocalorically replace fat with sugar and "probably" not have any effect? Dont we KNOW from Robert Lustigs work on replacement of fructose with starch (which was isocaloric) in children that it cleared up fatty liver. Certainly if there is that big of a difference metabolically even between carbohydrates the difference between fats and carbohydrates in metabolic effects can not be zero.
Agreed, a caloric deficit created via low carb is so much easier in my experience than going low fat.
50 lbs muscle/yr x 0.30 = 15 lbs proteins/365 days/yr= 0.041 lbs/day protein x 1/454 grams =19 grams/day of protein needed to put on 50 lbs muscle per year. So, more realisctically 10 lbs muscle/yr is 4 grams per day extra protein.
Loved this collab! Didn't expect it but I'm super happy it happened. Looking forward to the next (several?) sessions, especially since you can both intelligently talk through some of the more nuanced science.
First time I enjoyed anything Layne was on. No offense but this was the first really productive and sensible talk I've seen.
2:21:58 thanks for interrupting, peter🙏
Saying that your podcast are great so no criticism form me at all.
Gurlllll you crack me and not trying to sound weird but you are a younger version of me!!!! Omgggggg I need to read those books you recommend because you freaking made me realize I have a freaking binge eating disorder. I’ve been struggling to lose weight my WHOLE life. And I said that by age 50 I wanted to get on stage but thyroid issues kicked in and then covid. Well I’m not giving up!!!!!! I need to get those books and share my story as a middle age woman!!!!! We need to talk!!! I love you girl!!!
How does his advice apply to someone like me when I or we don’t take any steroids?
He said multiple times he’s never used PEDS
Really happy to see this collab
I was dead at if donning or Kruger are listening 😂😂😂
Not seeing the great white shark eating a whale show notes link. 17:00
Please have him back again. Amazing podcast
Habits are making the change....😊
Loved this! Thanks so much to you both. I'm a HUGE fan:)
Thinking about an old boyfriend who was asking about HFCS-is it bad for you
His sister was a big conservative who just loved the cornfield commercials
I was starting to find out then about the general problem of processed foods so recommended against its use and sweeteners of all kinds including nice natural pothead lovers honey
The next thing I remember was I was a problem because I hate America and corn
Luckily she disappeared back into her Fox News Bubble
I paid very much more attention to this episode than anything else I’ve seen on your show. At this point I can aim for body building and hope for some longevity if I get a little lean body mass before I turn 70. I’d like to come see Dr Attia and make him my doctor but I need to practice dead hang and standing up and sitting in a chair first
Pathetic!
But hopeful!!
Thanks for all the great info. Is there a special TV you need to make your guest appear in your podcast like that so clearly? Asking from the podcast set up perspective
In today's world we're bombarded with information we need to get the info quickly. You could probably have cut this podcast down by half by just cutting the literal amount words in half and getting to the point.
Layne is good
Many, many thanks for simplifying such complex findings! One of the best podcasts I have ever heard. Very generous of both of you.
I cannot find the study by Woolf that was referenced to regard lean body mass and longevity in the ages 65 and over. Could you cite this please?
The comments on the confodence curve in studing is so true. I'm in grad school and that is how I feel.
Wild that we can watch this for free.
Good back and forth communication. Regarding injury, I have always recovered faster by continuing some form of resistance training.
I’ve been with a PT for the last 14 weeks and I’ve managed to get my goal weight in that’s time, and go back to the gym which was super scary for me. Starting to tone up and get my strength training in now!
"i killed my clone" a year ago and have never looked back since. I love this episode! Part 2 up next...
2:46.00
💥
Excellent discussion. On identity: When you look in the mirror, who do you see?
How do you self identify? Critical to make lifestyle changes.
Great podcast! Thanks