Leto's rule was a period of stagnation, where Leto purposely put humanity on hold, so that eventually when he died, humanity would want to jump straight into space to spread and explore the universe hence ensuring the survival of the human race.
In its bluntest terms, the golden path is a recipe to create a humanity that is spreading infinitely outward. I really wish he could have finished his post God Emperor trilogy. It was really refreshing to see two Dune books that don't involve a quizat haderach or other god like beings trying to conform human nature to their plan.
Reading God Emperor was an experience for me. I was in an almost perpetual state of WTF, yet I was fascinated and kept moving along for the ride. Although wondering what the heck is even going on is a staple of the series from Children onwards. Until almost the shocking ending, I had no idea where Heretics was going.
It was meant to be a first trilogy (Dune, Dune Messiah, Children of Dune), a "transition book" (God Emperor of Dune), and a final second trilogy (Heretics of Dune, Chapterhouse: Dune, ???), but Frank passed away before finishing the story
All of Leto's choices are to delay the creation of the self replicating, prescient hunter seekers that would have ended humanity on a universal scale. By preventing space travel except by his words, he limited any form of war or infighting that would have both boosted tech growth and incentivized the Ixians into researching more powerful hunter seekers. He also let the Ixians grow wealthy and complacent with his money so they had no reason to go against him by developing these systems. If they are making insane amounts of money making iPhones they aren't going to go waste time with weapons R&D especially if it risks their iPhone market. This was all a stalling tactic to buy the breeding program time to create someone immune to prescience so they could add this camouflage gene into humanity. His actions would also cause the research into ships that weren't spice dependent and a large number of stifled explorers that were biting at the bit to go out into the universe
Arrakis was actually a green planet. Leto II had discovered this back in Children of Dune. Something non-human had brought the Sandworms to Arrakis and turned it into the desert planet of Dune. Pardot Kynes was also in the proccess of discovering this back in Dune, studying the planet, but he died before that point
I’ve been waiting for this video all summer I feel like. Hell yeah brother glad you finally read it. One thing you seem to be wondering still was the point of everything, why Leto even did the golden path. There are a few times when Leto is talking about his breeding program and why he needs humanity to be able to escape prescience. He talks about “something is coming” and that something is what he predicts will end humanity for good. It’ll get fleshed out a little in the next books but sadly never completely, so it’s all for this external threat only the god emperor can see in the future
Agreed. Destroying prescience was Leto's biggest goal. That way even if there was another quizat haderach or a machine equivalent, they would already be neutered because a significant minority of humanity in the future would be invisible to them.
really good interpretation of the Golden Path and you're correct that Leto purposefully made himself a villain. Leto's tyranny taught lessons to all of humanity that they will never forget. after his death, humans scatter ensuring that humanity will always be somewhere, and Leto's lessons never forgotten. distant and obscure spoiler but also I believe a distant Duncan Ghola becomes a kwisatz haderach and that might been part of Leto's plan.
Great review. It felt nice to find someone who felt similarly to me about this book after I finished it last night. I did like it, but it felt like a lot of not much happening, and at points, I felt like it dragged on a bit. I'm not really too interested in reading more since all the characters in the story have died now. I saw that the next book is set much further in the future, so it's basically a new story, and after all the philosophy, I could use a break, hahaha. Also, to add to your point about Leto recloning Duncan Leto was also using him a lot in his breeding program. To breed his characteristics into the Atredes.
Hell yeah! I've been looking forward to this review for a long time. My two cents on Leto and Ciona's relationship: I find it fascinating how Herbert managed to portray Leto. Ciona is presented at first as his antagonist, but she still comes to the conclusion that Leto's blather about the Golden Path was the truth all along. Technically speaking, he is a living Laplace demon. That's why the comparison to "Attack on Titan" doesn't fit in my opinion. The rule of the God Emperor was necessary in the causal chain to prevent the previously inevitable destruction of humanity. What is destined to be destroyed will eventually be destroyed. The question is whether it is possible for something new to arise from the ashes. That was Leto's mission and he succeeded. You'll find out a little bit more about that in the next book. These might be a little hard to read because they again have a completely different approach to their writing style, but I'm sure you'll like them. Additionally: I'm surprised you didn't say anything about the climbing orgasm scene. Lol.
If talking about the fish speakers makes you grin that much then I can't wait to see your reaction to the next two books. Steamier and way more action.
Had Leto II not gone through with the Golden Path, in 3,500 years, humanity would've already gone extinct My interpretation is that, this forced peace and, towards the end of the book, the attack on Ix by the Fish Speakers and the death of Malky led to the end of that extinction threat. The Ixians would've created something that would've brought the extinction of humanity (Differently to how Brian Herbert, who wrote the Spin off Dune books, saw machines still as the ultimate threat in his books, I won't get into more details because of Spoilers of future books). So the Ixians, the ones who would've brought the end of humanity, became irrelevant beside their no-room technology, also created during the events of God Emperor
My recollection about the Fish Speakers: for Herbert & Leto II, isn't so much that they are lesbian, but that they're women. He specifically wanted an all-woman army because his argument is that during times of peace, male armies are dangerous, that throughout history they have always turned against their governments & the civilians they're supposed to be protecting, because they can't "turn it off." That they're too animalistic. He's inferring that as women during peacetime, his Fish Speakers natural maternalism keeps that from happening. The lesbianism Duncan witnesses is more a byproduct of the types of relationships that may develop in those types of single-sex microcosms. I believe in the book it's dismissed by Leto & Moneo as an indiscretion of youth that they'll grow out of. If we are to assume the characters are analogs of Herbert's feelings of homosexuality, that seems to be as much as Herbert is willing to accept, like any dad in 1980 trying to deal w a child who comes out to them. The whole, "maybe it's just a phase & they'll grow out of it." I feel like too many people make too much of this aspect of the novel. They say, "Oh, Herbert's homophobic," just because it's not written in a way that's accepting of it by our 2024 standards. But they should keep in mind, it's only a few lines of dialogue in a 500 page story that literally makes dozens of philosophical statements on every page. On top of that, Leto & Moneo are both quick to shoot down Duncan's freak outs. They basically tell him to shut up & get over it. When he attacks Moneo during one of the moments, Moneo easily takes him down & says, "you're just an older model." If we want to get really meta, you could interpret that as Herbert telling himself to get over his own feelings on the matter. In 1980, the little bit of acceptance in the book was a big deal. It was much more accepting (in it's own bygone way) than other types of cultural touchstones. I mean, it wasn't "Boys in the Band," but it also certainly wasn't "Cruising." I wouldn't be surprised if Herbert was inspired by Wonder Woman & the Amazonians. After all, he could have read the comics as a kid & he wrote it in 1981 while Lynda Carter was on primetime TV.
As a gay man, I agree that we should allow historical context - not as an excuse but as an explanation. We don’t know how Herbert would think these days just as we wouldn’t know how the Dune series would truly have ended. But it’s not that much use to speculate or dwell on that stuff. The book, even with how forward thinking it was, was still a product of its time. And readers shouldn’t let that dissuade them reading Dune.
Although not going into deep details, I have explored the plots of the later books. I am a huge fan of the 1984 movie and even like the 2000's miniseries. I I got around to listening to the Audibook of Frank Herbert's first Dune novel before the Villeneuve movie came out. For better or for worse, I listened to his son's prequels, Atredies and Butlerian Jihad. Atredies gave a little context but was pretty dull. Despite middling or even negative reviews, I liked Butlerian Jihad. Even though you've explored this part of the story I haven't developed a deep love for the book series. Without giving spoilers I have a few issues with them, but at the same time, I will return to the series at some point.
Hey Ryan, I've been watching a bunch of your horror franchise retrospectives lately and have noticed you referencing Power Rangers a lot. As someone who grew up in the early era of Power Rangers, I'd love to see you review the early series and movie remake.
I hope you reconsider and give the two sequels by Brian Herbert a shot. i know they get a lot of hate online, but I think they are good, and definitely better then having no ending.
I think I read somewhere that Frank Herbert didn’t accept his gay son (solely on his sexuality not anything else) I don’t know if some of the Duncan Idaho commentary Ryan mentioned might be those views being placed onto a character
I really liked the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd books a lot, but I looooooved God Emperor. It was a nice payoff for all that setup. ;You may be thinking of the Sacred Band of Thebes, although I think there are others like that in history.
i have similar view as you so far, i hated everything about Siona, i know that i'm supposed to hate her it was written for that purpose but it didn't click with me, same goes with idaho he was just a ghola without his mantat ability was completely stupid to me, going qround doing messed up things then judging the fish speakers for their behavior.
Yo ryan bro they are is coming a new game in december from aliens but its a VR game so that sucks hopefully they are putting out allso a normal game mode next to the VR but for now what i can see VR is only mode You should check it out allso play alien: dark descent very awesome game i think you will like it alot you might need to play it on easy or normal mode tho
alot of the god emperors quotes are just frank herbert giving his own views on things lol. also the ending of chapterhouse is obscure but poetic. I love the self insert.
I'm torn between enjoing your review and wanting to hear more vs. my deep desire to avoid sites that advertise death culture imagery. The skull by your channel name is perhaps not an effective marketing tool. ❤
Regarding the problematic lesbian warrior women. I think it just shows that he is a man of his time, and not that progressive there. Like he had with his gay son, he apearently wasnt the worst but sure not great. and not understanding, if not being the worst, yeah. Duncan idahoe in that scene is definitly a self insert i imagine. And its an oldr book but yeah gender essencialist stuff?!
Leto's rule was a period of stagnation, where Leto purposely put humanity on hold, so that eventually when he died, humanity would want to jump straight into space to spread and explore the universe hence ensuring the survival of the human race.
We are kindred of the stomach. We both love yogurt.
In its bluntest terms, the golden path is a recipe to create a humanity that is spreading infinitely outward. I really wish he could have finished his post God Emperor trilogy. It was really refreshing to see two Dune books that don't involve a quizat haderach or other god like beings trying to conform human nature to their plan.
same. that's why Heretics is my favorite of the dune books
I feel Chapterhouse ends in a great way. It feels like an open ending
Reading God Emperor was an experience for me. I was in an almost perpetual state of WTF, yet I was fascinated and kept moving along for the ride.
Although wondering what the heck is even going on is a staple of the series from Children onwards. Until almost the shocking ending, I had no idea where Heretics was going.
It was meant to be a first trilogy (Dune, Dune Messiah, Children of Dune), a "transition book" (God Emperor of Dune), and a final second trilogy (Heretics of Dune, Chapterhouse: Dune, ???), but Frank passed away before finishing the story
Last night I had a random thought of "I wonder when Ryan will upload his God emperor review" and here we are lmao
All of Leto's choices are to delay the creation of the self replicating, prescient hunter seekers that would have ended humanity on a universal scale. By preventing space travel except by his words, he limited any form of war or infighting that would have both boosted tech growth and incentivized the Ixians into researching more powerful hunter seekers. He also let the Ixians grow wealthy and complacent with his money so they had no reason to go against him by developing these systems. If they are making insane amounts of money making iPhones they aren't going to go waste time with weapons R&D especially if it risks their iPhone market. This was all a stalling tactic to buy the breeding program time to create someone immune to prescience so they could add this camouflage gene into humanity. His actions would also cause the research into ships that weren't spice dependent and a large number of stifled explorers that were biting at the bit to go out into the universe
Arrakis was actually a green planet. Leto II had discovered this back in Children of Dune.
Something non-human had brought the Sandworms to Arrakis and turned it into the desert planet of Dune. Pardot Kynes was also in the proccess of discovering this back in Dune, studying the planet, but he died before that point
I’ve been waiting for this video all summer I feel like. Hell yeah brother glad you finally read it. One thing you seem to be wondering still was the point of everything, why Leto even did the golden path. There are a few times when Leto is talking about his breeding program and why he needs humanity to be able to escape prescience. He talks about “something is coming” and that something is what he predicts will end humanity for good. It’ll get fleshed out a little in the next books but sadly never completely, so it’s all for this external threat only the god emperor can see in the future
Agreed. Destroying prescience was Leto's biggest goal. That way even if there was another quizat haderach or a machine equivalent, they would already be neutered because a significant minority of humanity in the future would be invisible to them.
really good interpretation of the Golden Path and you're correct that Leto purposefully made himself a villain. Leto's tyranny taught lessons to all of humanity that they will never forget. after his death, humans scatter ensuring that humanity will always be somewhere, and Leto's lessons never forgotten. distant and obscure spoiler but also I believe a distant Duncan Ghola becomes a kwisatz haderach and that might been part of Leto's plan.
I dont even read dune but we support ryan out here
Yup
Same here most of what he post i dont really watch or read but hey ryan is a good guy so we support 😂🎉
Yessir
Great review. It felt nice to find someone who felt similarly to me about this book after I finished it last night. I did like it, but it felt like a lot of not much happening, and at points, I felt like it dragged on a bit.
I'm not really too interested in reading more since all the characters in the story have died now. I saw that the next book is set much further in the future, so it's basically a new story, and after all the philosophy, I could use a break, hahaha.
Also, to add to your point about Leto recloning Duncan Leto was also using him a lot in his breeding program. To breed his characteristics into the Atredes.
My favorite book of all time absolutely freakin love it
Hell yeah! I've been looking forward to this review for a long time. My two cents on Leto and Ciona's relationship: I find it fascinating how Herbert managed to portray Leto. Ciona is presented at first as his antagonist, but she still comes to the conclusion that Leto's blather about the Golden Path was the truth all along. Technically speaking, he is a living Laplace demon. That's why the comparison to "Attack on Titan" doesn't fit in my opinion. The rule of the God Emperor was necessary in the causal chain to prevent the previously inevitable destruction of humanity. What is destined to be destroyed will eventually be destroyed. The question is whether it is possible for something new to arise from the ashes. That was Leto's mission and he succeeded. You'll find out a little bit more about that in the next book. These might be a little hard to read because they again have a completely different approach to their writing style, but I'm sure you'll like them. Additionally: I'm surprised you didn't say anything about the climbing orgasm scene. Lol.
hell yeah dude
Ryan prequeling his 40k nosedive
If talking about the fish speakers makes you grin that much then I can't wait to see your reaction to the next two books. Steamier and way more action.
Leto II ended the Imperium, there would never be another Emperor Padisha after him, that was another one of the objectives of his Golden Path
Had Leto II not gone through with the Golden Path, in 3,500 years, humanity would've already gone extinct
My interpretation is that, this forced peace and, towards the end of the book, the attack on Ix by the Fish Speakers and the death of Malky led to the end of that extinction threat. The Ixians would've created something that would've brought the extinction of humanity (Differently to how Brian Herbert, who wrote the Spin off Dune books, saw machines still as the ultimate threat in his books, I won't get into more details because of Spoilers of future books).
So the Ixians, the ones who would've brought the end of humanity, became irrelevant beside their no-room technology, also created during the events of God Emperor
There is only one main character in Dune. That character is Duncan Idaho.
My recollection about the Fish Speakers: for Herbert & Leto II, isn't so much that they are lesbian, but that they're women. He specifically wanted an all-woman army because his argument is that during times of peace, male armies are dangerous, that throughout history they have always turned against their governments & the civilians they're supposed to be protecting, because they can't "turn it off." That they're too animalistic. He's inferring that as women during peacetime, his Fish Speakers natural maternalism keeps that from happening.
The lesbianism Duncan witnesses is more a byproduct of the types of relationships that may develop in those types of single-sex microcosms. I believe in the book it's dismissed by Leto & Moneo as an indiscretion of youth that they'll grow out of. If we are to assume the characters are analogs of Herbert's feelings of homosexuality, that seems to be as much as Herbert is willing to accept, like any dad in 1980 trying to deal w a child who comes out to them. The whole, "maybe it's just a phase & they'll grow out of it."
I feel like too many people make too much of this aspect of the novel. They say, "Oh, Herbert's homophobic," just because it's not written in a way that's accepting of it by our 2024 standards. But they should keep in mind, it's only a few lines of dialogue in a 500 page story that literally makes dozens of philosophical statements on every page. On top of that, Leto & Moneo are both quick to shoot down Duncan's freak outs. They basically tell him to shut up & get over it. When he attacks Moneo during one of the moments, Moneo easily takes him down & says, "you're just an older model." If we want to get really meta, you could interpret that as Herbert telling himself to get over his own feelings on the matter. In 1980, the little bit of acceptance in the book was a big deal. It was much more accepting (in it's own bygone way) than other types of cultural touchstones. I mean, it wasn't "Boys in the Band," but it also certainly wasn't "Cruising."
I wouldn't be surprised if Herbert was inspired by Wonder Woman & the Amazonians. After all, he could have read the comics as a kid & he wrote it in 1981 while Lynda Carter was on primetime TV.
As a gay man, I agree that we should allow historical context - not as an excuse but as an explanation. We don’t know how Herbert would think these days just as we wouldn’t know how the Dune series would truly have ended. But it’s not that much use to speculate or dwell on that stuff. The book, even with how forward thinking it was, was still a product of its time. And readers shouldn’t let that dissuade them reading Dune.
The Imperium had lived 10,000 years of technological stagnation and Feudalism. Paul ended Feudalism and Leto II ended technological stagnation
i hope well see the God emperor in live action one day
You are correct in your comparisons to AOT. Eren is a hybrid of Paul and Leto II.
Although not going into deep details, I have explored the plots of the later books. I am a huge fan of the 1984 movie and even like the 2000's miniseries. I I got around to listening to the Audibook of Frank Herbert's first Dune novel before the Villeneuve movie came out. For better or for worse, I listened to his son's prequels, Atredies and Butlerian Jihad. Atredies gave a little context but was pretty dull. Despite middling or even negative reviews, I liked Butlerian Jihad. Even though you've explored this part of the story I haven't developed a deep love for the book series. Without giving spoilers I have a few issues with them, but at the same time, I will return to the series at some point.
Pretty sure thats what he trained the bene gesserit, to just be better as organisation and drag them out of the shadows ? To help in the chaos?
Read Three Body Problem next.
Can’t wait to watch after I finish the book
Brotha the sci fi channel made a great children of dune. James mcAvoy in the early 2000.
Oh shit the real Dune book review time
Hey Ryan, I've been watching a bunch of your horror franchise retrospectives lately and have noticed you referencing Power Rangers a lot. As someone who grew up in the early era of Power Rangers, I'd love to see you review the early series and movie remake.
I hope you reconsider and give the two sequels by Brian Herbert a shot. i know they get a lot of hate online, but I think they are good, and definitely better then having no ending.
I hope u do continue these
I love dune
same
Dude you need to read the first law by joe abercrombie you will probably love it, or listen to the audiobook the narration is very good
That’s how I would rank the books too
GOD EMPEROR?! By the holy Terra, Emperor provides!
Dear God!! Finally!!
Damn I was hoping I’d finish before this came out. I blame WuKong
Lasguns are just laser guns
kralizec has came!
I think I read somewhere that Frank Herbert didn’t accept his gay son (solely on his sexuality not anything else) I don’t know if some of the Duncan Idaho commentary Ryan mentioned might be those views being placed onto a character
Are you referring to Brian or his brother that killed himself in his twenties?
bro please review the book all tomorrows
I hope koshit mori won’t continue and ruin this with his shallow writing and plot hole infested mess story
I really liked the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd books a lot, but I looooooved God Emperor. It was a nice payoff for all that setup. ;You may be thinking of the Sacred Band of Thebes, although I think there are others like that in history.
That’s kind of strange that you read in phases, I read manga every single night, I need my manga fix every day haha.
i have similar view as you so far, i hated everything about Siona, i know that i'm supposed to hate her it was written for that purpose but it didn't click with me, same goes with idaho he was just a ghola without his mantat ability was completely stupid to me, going qround doing messed up things then judging the fish speakers for their behavior.
Yo ryan bro they are is coming a new game in december from aliens but its a VR game so that sucks hopefully they are putting out allso a normal game mode next to the VR but for now what i can see VR is only mode
You should check it out allso play alien: dark descent very awesome game i think you will like it alot you might need to play it on easy or normal mode tho
Let them scatter
im just gona say, no one ever talks about facedancers ... in almost all these Dune reviews....
I agree about it being mostly yap. This was the last good book for me. The last two Frank books didnt hit the same imo
alot of the god emperors quotes are just frank herbert giving his own views on things lol. also the ending of chapterhouse is obscure but poetic. I love the self insert.
@@sunkist1309ditto, the ending was neat when i looked deeper into the story
That’s actually kind of funny, how on earth would being homosexual make you a better warrior? Haha.
I'm torn between enjoing your review and wanting to hear more vs. my deep desire to avoid sites that advertise death culture imagery. The skull by your channel name is perhaps not an effective marketing tool. ❤
I am curious to know why do you want to avoid the death culture if you'd like to explain?
Hey Ryan! Awesome video! Gotta be honest, 😬this book sounds awful
Regarding the problematic lesbian warrior women. I think it just shows that he is a man of his time, and not that progressive there.
Like he had with his gay son, he apearently wasnt the worst but sure not great. and not understanding, if not being the worst, yeah. Duncan idahoe in that scene is definitly a self insert i imagine.
And its an oldr book but yeah gender essencialist stuff?!