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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.ย. 2024
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AI raytrace cleanup without temporal ghosting is so goddamn impressive!
AI
It was "AI" clean up all alone from the very beginning. It was denoised with neural networks from RTX version 1.
@@barulicksama3838 No, most realtime denoisers were handcrafted until this announcement
Some were using NNs for research purposes and never actually shipped because they were much slower for no real quality gain
Not only that, but also if NVIDIA didn't lied it doesn't eat more FPS, it boost fps by around 8%, and you don't need newest RTX 4K so it's like a WIN - WIN situation.
@@WarframeCrunch nvidia is next level rigth now
nVidia engineers are extremely smart
And leaders extremely greedy
Yeah but only the engineers
yea I'm the smartest man on Earth and I can agree with this statement.
The N is meant to be capital
@@madocdudley7396I’m old school :)
cant wait to see this in cyberpunk. It looked good with RT but all the artifacts could get annoying at times.
I opted to not use RT Overdrive because of it 🥴But this seems really promising!
I am already using it, several spots where you can download 3.5, just drop it in the folder (maybe change the old files extentions to dllold first). It looks and runs amazing, tried to record some but OBS is giving me issues rn. RT overdrive on 4k with framegen 100+ fps on my 4090 (instead of 18 fps).
@@Chasm9 same but it's pretty noticeable even with normal RT
@@Rem_NLthat's just the super sampling isn't it, not RR
@@Crazy09starkillor im fairly sure it is, at least for the reflection part, have you even tried it?
edit: there are some spots where you can still see some noise while using pathtracing, its with the light coming from above, and you are sitting under a bridge or something where its just the bounce lights creating the lighting
12:28 Rich has perfected the “please help me” 4th wall break
Can't wait for this Ray Retracing technology in a Nintendo Switch 2 ❤❤❤
It's awesome to see the team together chatting away. DLSS 3.5 sounds very impressive, I have my issues with Nvidia but you have to appreciate how forward thinking they are. Some stunning work.
I can't wait to try it in about 5 years!
This is a great technique for lower resolutions like 1080p where you have less rays to trace and more rt noise that effects image quality. This seems like a no brainer for everyone to enable as much as possible, even if you already have a good framerate.
Does that mean 1080p high refresh users will find raytracing a bit more useless?
@@Deliveredmean42actual low iq
@@Deliveredmean42 Does this comment show you're a useless clown? 🤡😂
@@Deliveredmean42better looks + slightly better performance? Its a no brainer
? no it means the opposite of that. dlss 3.5 would make the image more stable by reducing noise, which is an unfortunate byproduct of any kind of hardware accelerated raytracing or path tracing. That means you retain a clear and stable image without pixelation and shimmer at high refresh, which is a great usage for upscaling tech rather than just approximating higher pixel density like dlss 1.0-2.5@@Deliveredmean42
NVIDIA: You won't be able to figure out which one of these two games is streamed and which one is running native!
Digital Foundry: Hold my beer.
That water bottle in the middle is suspiciously placed. 😁
image quality is so underrated.
I think hardware reviewers are going to have to start acknowledging that modern GPUs are not just scaling up compute. A GPU that can run playable fps at 720p path tracing could now offer super crisp visuals with DLSS 3.5
Gaming has changed and reviewers don’t see it. They keep reviewing GPUS same way 10 years ago. Now is different. Period
@@eliceomartinezmejias867 Yeah, recent disaster releases and full scale marketing scum confirms that. We are back to 720p-1080p and 30fps on consoles and going downhill hard with $500 GPUs and even $1000 GPUs on PC. Games usually sucks too. Gaming has changes indeed, we shouldn't expect games, visuals and optimizations like 10 years ago, now it's different.
Optimization is a cyclical thing. At some point we had A LOT of lousy PC ports at the middle of the 2000s, and eventually almost got better near the end and went back to it on ocassion mid 2010s. It all depends on the develipers, the engine and the hardware of the era@@J0rdan912
@@eliceomartinezmejias867 Right, the sooner we all just buy Nvidia the better off we'll all be. Only idiots care about standard raster performance anymore. I can't wait for when Nvidia has a complete monopoly, I'm sure then they'll reward our loyalty with even better graphics products.
@@syncmonism”rasterisation” legit sounds like something from the 90s.
EVERYONE ITS AN ARTIFICIAL LIMIT GO INTO YOUR APPDATA/LOCAL/CD PROJECT FILE AND CHANGE THE USER SETTINGS CFG FORCE DLSSD TO TRUE AND DEFAULT TO TRUE THEN SAVE IT AS READ ONLY AND RAY RECONSTRUCTION WILL WORK WITH NORMAL RTX
Hey, im playing in full HD with a RTX 4070 and don´t use DLSS at all, because of the Image Quality suffers to much from DLSS in full HD. But with the denoise Feature, it will be a Thing for me? All talking about high Resolutions with DLSS 3.5, but will be the Image Quality better for me, in FHD?
Alex looks like he just got finished playing a 24 hour Quake LAN party
my only wish for console gameplay is better implementation for AMD FSR since DLSS is not a option. say what you want about priorities but i was hoping to play all games at 60 fps as a default but that's already dying and they've barely mad proper next gen games.
100% agree
Maybe one day the consoles will ditch AMD for Nvidia. AMD is just disappointing.
That's why I switched to PC back in 2016, I was just tired of how underpowered the consoles were, and I'm so glad I switched. The upfront cost is more, but the overall cost is about the same over the years with how inexpensive PC keys are.
FSR is just so far behind DLSS it's sad. DLSS is just a no brainer for me to turn on as there is basically no image detail loss but a huge gain in performance. But FSR has a huge problem with any kind of motion. It always turns into a huge mess of artifacts. I hope FSR3 improves this but for now i would go native 8 times out of 10 if only FSR is available as an upscaler.
@@LTNetjak Surely DLSS 3.5 is proof its not just an afterthought, they're just more focused on the high margin high-end gamers.
Unlike the other technologies which have many downsides, this is a nvidia technology that is literally only an improvement, with no downsides. Very impressive. I wonder how will AMD do their version of this, if it's possible
Guys, great video, but I wondering what is about the missing light effects you can see at the light worm? There are some white glowing lights in all the other scenes but it is missing on the DLSS 3.5 version. Is this just because they are not at the exact same position or will some fake effects turned off in DLSS 3.5?
@@sinAnon6689 3.5 fixes the ghosting
This may be worth a GPU upgrade !
If I can turn on DLSS without metallic shimmering, chain fence artifacts, or light fuzziness, I'd be happy. Had to turn it off in cyberpubk for those issues
Can I just say hats off to Alex for not getting completely derailed by the Ray Charles pun, that shit would’ve completely ruined my trail of thought😂
RTX-Remix is gonna be HUGE with this. It has so much ghosting and smearing, and the denoiser deletes so many details.
this clip channel keeps catching me out keep thinking "oo theres more news from DF already!" get all excited then notice its repeat ;)
I always prefer RT off in games even if I have a 4070ti due to those ray tracing artifacts described by Alex in the video. It's like Nvidia made this technology for me, I'm so happy I can now play with RT without all those blurry reflections and trails. (Hopefully)
Same, it's my only gripe with Rt overdrive
It depends on how much is done with RT I guess, cyberpunk with RT overdrive does almost everything with RT so that'll be heavy AF.
I'd like to see more customization options for using RT (though I haven't used a gaming pc in a while so maybe some games already have such settings), like being able to choose not to use it for certain things or even changing the amount of rays/paths and bounces used for particular things.
In most games I'm not like "oh this game needs RT" but some games would really benefit from just replacing screen space reflections with something better like RT
@@High.on.Life_DnB Well, games usually have options for RT shadows, RT GI and RT reflections. I'm not sure but i guess switching from ultra to low (should) change the number of rays of a specific effect. Still i remember it's very very low most of the time, Cyberpunk for example was something like 2 bounces and rays per pixel at max but could be modded higher.
God I can't wait for the Phantom Liberty expansion and patch 2.0 with DLSS 3.5. Cyberpunk 2077 is the GOAT.
Anyone know if they are updating the missing overdrive materials with this or Phantom Liberty? I know glass and something else were not updated with overdrive features for the initial launch. Along with OMM? Brought up foliage in CP2077 and Alan Wake 2, and rn in CP2077 without OMM foliage just tanks performance.
I think the next step to DLSS 3.5 is probably full Neural Rendering. Replacing 90% of the rendering process
It will probably be some time before we get an entirely inferenced image 60 times a second, you would probably need more tensor cores for that.
Two Minutes Paper just drop something recently and I don't think NVIDIA will go into Neural rendering, they have their own method instead.
@@foxthroat3410 which video are u referring to? Is it his newest video? Cause that isn't Nvidia's paper. Nvidia's latest paper is still neural rendering
The next step is replacing the rasterized part. The initial part of the image is the most important, and its still just done with a raster, and they call it full path tracing, makes me laugh.
And then DLSS 4.0 replacing the players.
That Ray Charles comment was underrated 😂
Frame generation is honestly getting much better too it's becoming great technology just like DLSS 2 became from the smeary 1.
Let’s Win FSR3
DLSS 3.5 is genuinely the first time I'm excited about DLSS. Frame Gen was kinda ... meh. DLSS 2 was decent. But this 3.5 seems like it's going to clean up some of the issues in one fell swoop.
When you talked about Ray Reconstruction in non PT games, and the potential reluctance to implement it, let's remember that RTXDI exists as a technology for hybrid raster-rt rendering that usually boosts FPS by at least +50% all the way to double FPS. Yet we don't see it being enabled in CP2077's normal Ray Tracing modes, nor have we seen it anywhere outside of the original RTX Showcase, custom UE5 scenes people have made, and a single indie puzzle game. Really seems like Nvidia just wants to sell more 40 Series for FG, rather than boosting the performance across the board for people. Which is a shame because a performance boost like that from RTXDI that also allows for more light sources seems like a pretty big selling point for RT does it not?
The only reason I got my 3080 was for the ray tracing, nvidea is 100% going to try to monopolize on it as much as possible. Corporations already view games as a service, why not the hardware? It won’t surprise me if they patent it and try to sell it at a big price for devs, if they aren’t already doing tit now.
20 and 30 series cards owners having to choose between FSR 3 with frame gen but (most probably) much worse image quality but double the performance, vs DLSS 3.5 at half the frame rate since no frame gen but much cleaner and stable image
7:29 "It Still Looks Good." ---- "It Still Looks Good." Man that was so funny. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
DLSS should be work on all games, not only just for supporting games.
So what you're saying is it should work on unsupported games
We have entered an age where getting more raw performance is kinda getting harder and harder, instead of adding more compute power they are mostly just focusing on smarter rendering/upscaling techniques and generated frames.
Will the RTX5000 series even have a significant hardware performance upgrade over the 4000, or are they just going to be aiming at improving DLSS?
As you say, the days of trying to brute force graphics are well and truly over.
I liken this to when they introduced the Z-buffer to graphics cards back in the day.
A lot of people said that this was "cheating" and shouldn't be allowed, but history has proven them wrong. Everyone uses this tech now because it is beneficial.
Same when AMD designed their great drawcall culling tech.
Brute force is no longer the way. Times are changing again.
AMD: hey guys we finally caught up to nvidia.
Nvidia: hold my beer.
Jeez, are the B and C cameras recorded on a VHS camcorder from the 90s?
03:11 Alex in Narnia World
At 1:35, Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart is the same way for certain reflections. Has the funny static affect.
Took me some time to understand the "IDKFA" shirt :P Is is "IDDQD" in the back ? :P
Not sure if I missed something...but is this coming to existing Hardware (4000 Series?) or is this for the 5XXX Lineup?
I hope it will be added to Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition
I wonder how and when AMD is going to tackle these kind of features
Currently (for the same power consumption / price), AMD can actually render at a higher resolution / higher frame rate in most engines, so it's not like they're under as much much pressure to fake those things by using clever interpolation. And their code runs on all hardware (Nvidia's included), so even if they come up with something better, Nvidia can just adopt it.
I never thought I'd see the day when Nvidia's strength would be post-processing (essentially 2D, image-space "enhancements") instead of actual 3D rendering performance. But I guess their top brass has been more interested in bitcoin mining and neural network acceleration than gaming for a few years now.
0:56 That's one motley looking crew😆
You can already download and use it. I have it working in rdr2 and cp
New Nvidia tech needs to get in the next consoles - the amount of a jump they could do with graphic fidelity would be massive
There's just no way any of this tech is making it into PS6 or the next Xbox, but I'd say the PS7 generation should have this stuff. Just gotta wait till 2035, which sounds far off, but that's just the rest of this gen, then PS6 gen.
if they do your consoles will cost a lot more 😂😂
@@brownie43212 no way this is on consoles until PS7 generation, even John linneman himself even said that
@@jonny5143 Everyone said the same about raytracing on current gen, I suspect it depends if AMD manage to catch up offering similar functionality.
@@alexatkin no everyone said Ray tracing wouldn't work very well on these consoles and they were correct. This tech is so far ahead of consoles, it's seriously going to be the PS7 generation. Think of it like this, the hardware is already being built for PS6, this technology is literally not even out yet, there is no way this is coming till PS7
Is Ray Reconstruction only in path tracing or at all levels eg ray tracing medium, High or Ultra?
It applies to ALL RT, they just used the Overdrive (Pathtracing) mode because there's so much ray casting and interaction to handle (and thus, denoise). This is a big ass deal.
this is fucking incredible, kudos to developers
I would call it a game tweaker. Not a changer. But I won't play around with the semantics it's fine to call it a game changer. It's a good slice of new tech. I like it. But it's not amazing or anything. I just want to know if it can work on just RT? Or if it requires pathtracing. Like on RT only would it even do much?
will my 2060 be able to run at some sort of smoothness in this new dlss 3.5?
cant wait for the 10 games that will use it, 8 of them being sub 8.5's
People said this about DLSS and raytracing as well.
DLSS 4 won't release until 50 series is launched, at minimum.
That’s been the pattern so far. DLSS1: 20 series, DLSS2: 30 series, DLSS3: 40 series. So, it’s honestly a no brainer.
19:00 really curious whether DLSS 3.5 Ray Reconstruction can be used together with FSR 3.0
Dlss 3.5 relies on the dlss 2.x method of antialiasing. I don’t think you will be able to enable ray reconstruction without DLAA or DLSS 2.x or 3.x.
It already existed as a standalone denoiser called optiX
although the ray reconstruction doesn't necessarily improve performance on its own, the improved image quality can allow for more aggressive upscaling for higher FPS at the same image quality. I would personally like to see the ability to use this new denoiser without also using DLSS
do you think it will be put into older games like Ghost wire tokyo?
Ray tracing in games comes of age??
After playing a bit on cyberpunk it sure is nicer. But not game changer.
AMD: fsr3
*Drop mic
My 4090 is going to be eating well for the rest of the year starting in 4 days 😁
What's in 4 days?
@@XStreet1985 Starfield
IDKFA - salute to alll people who knows 👊
I want to know whether or not there is a mobile chipset equivalent and how power hungry it is. Does it require more computation cycles? It's really hard to find information on this. Does this depend on which version of dlss you are?
DLSS requires Tensor Cores and such on Nvidia GPU's, it ain't running on anything that isn't an Nvidia RTX GPU.
The Switch 2 will have something, keep an eye out for DF's breakdown on that after it gets announced.
Alex is wearing his Radlerhosen I see
does this work for every game that has ray tracing?
Sooooo can we get that dlss 3.5 in starfield. Super sketch that it wasn’t implemented
Okay, but will it run on my PS vita?
lets hope they implement it better then dlss3, 11 months and 35-45 games half of which are 1-3 year old titles is not impressive for something marketed as much as it was.
pathtracing without smearing is going to look insane
Ya know what I want? A live stream of these lads on the drink taking questions. Or not. 🤣😉
Byron
Peterlee
North East
England
we should totally try to recreate this when its out and see how much nvidia actually delivers and how much is made up BS also, is cyberpunk the only game that implements this?
Digging the DooM t-shirt 👍
And did John's t-shirt SHRINK in the wash? Looks like it might be cutting off his circulation!
NVidia is charging insane prices for their cards, but the tech-both hardware and software-is incredible.
It looked very robust.
Rich....... I remember phoning Mean Machines and talking to Julian Rignal because we were stuck on a game. Can't do that today.
John..... I'm 46 and I would go back without a doubt. Pixel perfect on a brilliant CRT was mind blowing. Love ya. Keep it up. Stick in.
Alex..... Young Alex 🤣 love listening to you. Your knowledge on this new stuff. Love it. Cool haircut... but get to the gym... if ya get time.... Richard! 😉
Love you 3. You're all the tech Top Gear trio. ❤❤❤
The Control DLSS3 and HDR Unofficial patch mod really helps with the noise of the games old max settings.
If the same guy can update that patch to also include this that would be insane
I can imagine he's looking at this 3.5 RR version of DLSS becuse this is a substantial improvement along the lines of what he'd been working on already.
Nvidia is clearly on a rampage! It cleverly understood long time ago and implemented it in it's core philosophy that only raw performance gain isn't what gives them upper edge. That secret sauce r their proprietary features in all of their business segments like CUDA, RT, DLSS and so on. They understood it since their inception with T&L, programmable shaders and other features. AMD has to do the same and must come with something special as well otherwise it will always play second league and fall behind Nvidia.
FSR3 could never lol
I am massaging my 4090 for that Cyberpunk DLC to see that path tracing and DLSS3.5 coming together. Will actually be the first time I am going to play this game. That being said I think it is a dead end. At least for many years and up to the point where nothing like this even matters. Simply because Path Tracing/DLSS3.5 games will only be handful. UE5 will not fully support it, ever. It is multiplat engine first and foremost. Later down the line with 7th or 8th RTX cards generations it is going to be a completely different story anyway. New tech and features will come.
Right now every modern card, even the top ones are struggling with what UE5 presents. Lumen and Nanites are smashing CPUs and underutilize GPUs. It relies on software which is tied to rough GPU and CPU computing power. There are software tricks to Nanites and Lumen yes but there is no dedicated hardware for that like with RT/Tensor cores. Upscaling is the only rescue for now. It's not looking bright for the future my friends and it is why it wont advance much in regards to Path Tracing and similar features. Hell, we will be seeing UE4 games still being developed for many years to come until something like RTX4090 or RX 7900 XTX in processing power will be inside every average laptop. Hopefully I am wrong.
sounds about right
Yeah, until the consoles are able to handle full path tracing, only some games will use it. But I don't think UE4 will be used for long, at least not as long as UE3 because the business model Epic is doing is very favorable for both Indies and Triple A companies to upgrade. And there is a possibility that all the new tech in UE5 can be tuned to utilize GPUs in a more efficient manner. The problem is the difference in architecture from Nvidia to AMD, and Epic is doing the "morally" correct thing, by not choosing sides, but I think that eventually a unified method of rendering RT will have to be created, as it becomes the common way to render graphics. No idea what would be a timeline for this, though...
@@oblikua Yea, let's hope for that unified, hardware supported and optimized RT rendering method. I hope it will come soon enough.
Hopefully they can remove ghosting all together on DLSS. It's hella annoying and with that maybe make RT Easier to run. Although Im sure 50 series will throw more RT Cores at the problem.
Not RT cores but more AI.
Guys we know you sponsored but you're definitely oversell it.
Man the bench Alex is sitting on looks so uncomfortable
How drunk was Jon during this. Dudes sweating bullets
People sweat when they are hot. Not everyone is an alcoholic like you.
They said in the Direct that the room is hot.
Might be that his t-shirt looks at least a size too small!
Soon enough nvidia streaming will process graphics and AI will do the rest. Take processed data and reverse time a few ms to get 0 latency… it’s really amazing that PTRT with enough bouncing and FG to get north of 100 fps at 4k. This is what I was hoping for quality wise with RT initially. Just didn’t seem like it was generating enough of the lighting in bounced reflections. Wasn’t worth running for a marginal gain. Seems like this is the solution for sure. Truly amazing what can be done with enough talent and with asking the right questions. The best Engineers make the best stuff. And it’s clear Nvidia has some of the very best. I just think that with progress like this and with frame gen, low to mid range cards could be rendering/spitting out frames fast enough and good enough to match DLSS quality at 4k and north of 100fps in a few short years or even sooner. A few updates to frame gen. Sure, at that point nvidia would probably throttle it so there is a reason to buy their better cards. We might already be there. Would be kinda funny if the engineers were like “here, 240fps, 8k, and all while using less than 200w on a 4090…”.
Jensen: “ahhh, let’s dumb this down a bit guys.. it’s too good”
Ah the day the GPU that reverses time releases, will be the day I'm going back in time to fix my past
Lmao what the hell are you talking about
@@BoofPack69 you read it all? Hope you got it all…
nvidia can nreverse time thats why their stonks went sky high@@damonm3
@@damonm3did you? You said reverse time a few ms. It sounds like you're saying the AI should reverse time during processing? Rewind maybe is a better term 🤔
Still not paying $1200 for 16GB of ram. Dont @ me talking about a 4060 Ti 😂
and yet, game studios loves to get paid by amd for just using FSR. 🙄
Yes just a quick follow-up to my previous comment dude is loaded in this video I just gave it like 20 more seconds I hope he gets the help he needs
mixed feelings about this. I don't like puddles looking like mirrors.
Well that's the material's problem now with its roughness not the new "denoiser"
Really curious about how it performs on rtx 2000 gpus and at lower resolutions (1440p/1080p) with not path traced games
It's ray generation, it's for ray traced games. Stop with the concern trolling.
@@Wobbothe3rdI think they meant in Ray traced games, not path traced games since that's a lot harder to run.
@@Wobbothe3rd It's a feature that is compatible for what happens to be a large number of gpu's. 2080/2080ti owners would most certainly be interested if it works markedly worse on the older generation cards vs the rough raw equivalent being a 4060/4060ti.
Will it only work on Path Tracing?
No.
No. It should work with any implementation or variation of ray tracing. Allowing it to be less taxing on any RTX generation cards.
I had anxiety watching the whole video just because of how that phone is placed.
I'd love to see ray reconstruction added to Minecraft RTX, which really needs an update as one of the best RTX implementations yet.
Guys, with all your talk of realistic quality image in graphics you somehow forgot to give us the ultimate in real-life graphics by nailing camera focus on a boring construction sight behind you. You're better than this! 😉
If it's a proprietary technology than it's not a game-changer.
To me ray reconstruction looks just like any AI generated picture, and it looks flat on top.
In regards to UE5 engine. Honestly. Them being the end all be all as in if they support it, it will catch on. Well. UE is kind of in a spot where a lot of people start to not wan UE4/5 games.
All the games using that engine of late is a stuttering mess and it seems inherently flawed. Something with loading assets or whatever it is. Every 10 seconds moving around you get huge dips in FPS because it stalls when loading/transitioning. Look at Hogwarts, Jedi Survivor. I am starting to dread games using that engine because it doesn't matter if you have a 4090. Something just goes wrong in UE games.
This video is excellent advertising for this technology lol it is not often I see these guys stammering and at a loss while talking about stuff like this
You got it 🎉 it is exactly an advertising.
DLSS 3.0 is kinda meh ; but DLSS 3.5 is legit .
I wonder if this will work with dlaa it will be extremely demanding but it would essentially be native dlss minus the lower res with ai denosing
Pretty sure they said Super Resolution has to be on for now.
@@Scytherman you mean dlss?
@@wiskerfall4519 Super Resolution is name of the upscaling feature of DLSS. That's just what they call it.
@@Scytherman ah sorry
@@Scythermanit upscales and denoises at the same time, you could just set the super resolution to the native resolution.
Starfield blocked this...unreal 😂
That game needs some heavy optisation patches.
No they prioritized FSR, which is what the consoles use. There's no word on if DLSS will or will not come to the pc version. I imagine at some point it will .
Starfield doesn't even have ray tracing so DLSS 3.5 wouldn't do anything
@@mynameismud-qd9vu Modders added DLSS and XeSS before the game even fully released. There are no excuses.
@@danwarb1 DLSS, XeSS, and FSR all coexist in dozens of games. Paying to keep them out is ludacris. The only reason you can "get it to work" is because of modders, not Bethesda or AMD.
@@mar2ck_ DLSS is not just for Ray Tracing. Frame Gen can also be helpful in other situations like being CPU bound... like in Starfield.