Here's the video on the last site I visited during the World Neolithic Congress in Türkiye in November. I hope you find this site as fascinating as I did.
I like your open minded approach to ideas about usage and the importance of using newer post excavation analyses to try to determine the whys and wherefores.
Given the effort that it must have taken to hollow out those beautiful, surprisingly delicate pots from stone, that was an astonishing treasure hoard they left in the last building.
@@thearchaeologistslaborator6591 I'm curious -- do you know of anyone who has done experimental archaeology to try to reproduce pots of that size with stone tools, to find how many people-hours they take? And have any period manufacturing sites been found showing what the tool kit was? I'm wondering if they had bow drills yet, or other simple drills.
There is a dragon (not a fox) mid right at fourteen fifty five. There is also a spotted serpent along with the "leopard" cloaked person, two symbols of the stars. Thanks for the wet image, I'm an expert in the water industry and have been wondering when someone will release some elevations. Colored Lidar, like The Carolina Bays.
@@thearchaeologistslaborator6591 I think the region was very lush and verdure, which it would have to be, to have water at the top of the hill. It sure has the look, but I've seen over ten thousand swimming pools. Maybe water was a key part of the rituals, sure would help to clean up after dispatching Aurochs. I saw you're comment about the Archaeologist's mind set, I find it correct, I have been trying to inform them for a decade. It is all about The Taurids. If any do not understand this, then mankind is never going to get it. It is even in our current global affairs with the Aldebaran colored heifer. I've read a number of Tauroctony books, maybe four, and the authors haven't a clue, just look at the placement of the blade, right at the shoulder blade. There is a sister site with a grave which two Auroch scapula are placed over. And there are a number of these that symbolize the veneration of The Pleiades, the radiant. The Egyptians would lead the Apis Bull around the temple seven times and then afterwards stuffed and placed in carved hard rock boxes in the dark, alike the dark caves of Mithraism. I wish some of you would read my work and catch up. Most of it isn't me, I compiled it on purpose to get very well learned scholars to tell it for me. It took about three years to come up with the idea. The YT Archaeologists can't even read my paragraph posts and block me, the list of books I've read is longer than that! I've known about the Taurid Meteor Stream and its connection with Halloween since 1969. The incredulousness is so profound I have been compelled towards psychology, finding out denial isn't well known, and onto animal cognition, which inadvertently brings in more light to the human condition. Come to find out, Carl Jung / Joseph Campbell have convinced academia that, ironically, (synchronicity?), Mythology is all Bull Shit! We need the hero / adversary to cope with existence. It all boils down to The Sun - Good, The Space Falls - Bad, it is cyclic. But we still use sympathetic magic to hurry it to the end of all ends. Cyclic never ends, unless the species goes extinct. It is even proved by the fact that the 19th Century / early 20th Century linguists did not know about our most recent meteor stream.
Actually, we still call it Pre-Pottery Neolithic, even though it has been known, for several decades now, that crude pottery was made occasionally. It never really took off until the end of the Pre-Pottery Neolithic.
The wild onager is interesting, because it the only representation of an equid I seen at any of these sites,and I ve wondered why they werent being depicted
Not an expert by any means, I am an amateur who is into this stuff as an hobby. Just one drawing of an onager is not really anything to go off of, but it does have intriguing corroboration for some interesting speculation however. Here are my thoughts/speculations. There are some anthropologists who believe that the modern day Solluba are the heirs/last survivors of the ancient hunter-gatherers in the region, even being associated with the Selappayu in Akkadian records. I believe the context of the desert kites around Gobekli Tepe and Karahan Tepe were understood by studying the Solluba who I believe are the only people to still use desert kites anywhere in the region (Middle East) for that purpose. The Solluba are famous hunters of gazelle, which seems to match the archeological evidence of the gazelle bones and desert kite use around the Tepe sites. The Solluba are known as Abu al-Khala (Fathers of the empty spaces) by the Bedouin for example and the Bedouin regularly hire them as guides and hunters. The Solluba are famous for raising asses, and while the ass is generally viewed negatively from a cultural/religious context, they are still very valuable animals to the Bedouin who prize Solluba donkeys. I wonder how all of this fits in(if at all) to the prestigious nature of Kungas (offspring of a female domesticated donkey and a wild male Syrian wild ass) in Ebla in the 3rd millenium BC before the introduction of horses. I find some intriguing superficial similarities between prized modern Solluba asses, and the prized Kungas of Ebla. The Solluba are a pariah group in the Middle East shunned much like Gypsies, Cagots in France, or various pariah castes in India. They are not considered true Arabs, and traditionally are denied Qaḥṭānite and ʿAdnānite lineages. I find this fascinating in the context of other Arab myths, such as the destruction of Ad, and the non Arab origin for Medina (Yathrib), and the story of Zarqa al Yamama, a blue eye’d seeress from Pre-Islamic Arabia who’s story reminds me in some ways of Cassandra’s warning to the Trojans about the Trojan Horse being ignored. The Solluba are considered to have their own unique dialect of Arabic with a number of unique words to them, and westerners and Arabs both believe that they have different physical features than other Arabs, often with fairer eyes and hair.
@@thearchaeologistslaborator6591 But perhaps they were blocked some time after they were made? In the "water works" interpretation of those sites, they would have been originally passages for water, which were blocked when springs dried up or the rainwater was diverted elsewhere, and the "cistern" was reused as habitation...
Is there some kind of ongoing geologic process happening on the site? I ask because some of the damage to pillars and objects is hard to picture happening. The pillar at 11:00 for instance, looks like a huge amount of energy caused this, far more than just colliding stones in a collapse No? or an truly unholy determination if deliberately broken. I can imagine frost cycles doing this but does it get cold enough there? Fascinating anyway thanks for the video.
These are all good points, and I've been thinking about this also. Some of the damage is fairlly predictable, such as the very weathered tops of pillars that were sticking out of the ground and exposed to rain, snow and frost. But a lot of the buried ones, and especially the toppled ones, look suspiciously like they may have been smashed deliberately. I hope to explore this a little more and I'll do a video if I'm able to find anything out. The other geological processes here are erosion and colluviation, very predictable on such a sloped site.
IIUC the pillars (and practically all the building stones in those sites) are limestone (calcium carbonate), which is easily eroded by rainwater. Calcium carbonate is insoluble in pure water, but rain always contains small amounts of dissolved carbon dioxide, and this turns the calcium carbonate into bicarbonate, which is soluble. (And is what makes ground water "hard" in limestone-rich places).
@@thearchaeologistslaborator6591 Şanlıurfa is generally a hot and arid province. Summers can rise above 44 degrees celcius. Winters can drop to below zero degrees. Snow height can be up to 20cm, but snowfall is quite rare. The amount of rain is low compared to the average in Turkey. Average 460mm per year.
Thanks for the share. Seems to me the initial layer with no artifacts represent the original abandoning of the site with natural erosion without human artifacts then re inhabit perhaps later relatives or new tribe. I think it possible the second inhabitation period was when the animal carvings came from. The initial building site i think was more astronomical in nature than the later animal art dominating themes. I like to think a large breed of man/hybrid built these large stone sites before being hunted to extention.
Those stoneware vessels are mind-blowing! Imagine smashing and grinding such fine objects out of brittle stone. ##~~* Perhaps they are made of reconstituted stone or geopolymer. *( smash smash grind grind ) After a month of patient tapping and scraping Urgr set the unpolished bowl down beside the pile of dust, grit and rubble left over. He sifted the rubble, added lime and water, and modeled a bigger better bowl before nightfall!
"Geopolymer" is a word that has the same resonance in archaeology as "alien technology". But indeed, heating limestone (CaCO3) at 950 C (a temperature that can be reached in a wood bonfire) turns it into quicklime (CaO). Quicklime then reacts with water to make "slaked lime" (Ca(OH)2). Slaked lime is plastic like clay, and can be molded into shapes like pots and statuettes, or used (mixed with sand or ground limestone) as "lime mortar" for masonry walls, covering walls and floors etc. Like clay, slaked lime is very fragile when dried. Firing makes clay harder, but it destroys slaked lime. However, over months or years, slaked lime hardens as it absorbs carbon dioxide from air and turns into calcium carbonate again. Although much softer than Portland cement, aged lime mortar is hard enough for the above uses. Indeed, it may be difficult to distinguish it from natural limestone: one may need a geologist and/or a microscopic examination. So those pots could in theory be made from lime mortar. But that is unlikely as it would take months or years after molding before they became hard enough to use, and they would still be much more fragile than fired clay pots. And, no, aged lime mortar is *not* a "geopolymer". Many minerals are indeed polymers, but calcium carbonate is not.
In point of fact, early Neolithic people in Southwest Asia did sometimes make vessels out of plaster (as @jorgStolfi says, it's made from slaked lime). We call it "white ware," and Bonnie Nilhamn, among others, has published on this technology. However, these are not that. They're carved out of stone, I think mostly or entirely chlorite, which is a relatively soft stone (only about 2.5 on the Mohs scale). Having said that, they're still awfully impressive!
According to thearcheologistslaboratory these vessels are neither made of reconstituted stone nor geopolymer ( prend moi pour une quiche ), but are realy cut out of stone!@@JorgeStolfi
As I've said elsewhere, it's a bit misleading to act as though these are sites of mobile hunter-gatherers. They are Neolithic villages, and pretty sophisticated ones for their time, but that doesn't contradict anything that Flint Dibble has been saying.
No. Not just speculation (although there's always some of that in any creative archaeological interpretation). In this case, we have the houses, stone tools, plant remains, and animal bones that shows that the Taş Tepeler sites were Neolithic villages, with hundreds of residents who were both hunting local game (especially gazelles) and harvesting wild wheat and barley.
Au solstice d'hivers le soleil levant au travers de cette ouverture éclaire la tête sculptée dans la citerne aux colonnes . Cette ouverture devait probablement être equipee dune vanne pour réguler le niveau d'eau de la citerne.
I don’t understand why Karahantepe is already open to public. It seems awfully risky and too close to comfort to let people get too close to these excavation sites for preservation?
Stone plates!!, stone bowls!! As a ceramic artist, many questions arise pertaining to the construction of such ware. Research on these kind of artifacts are needed to fully understand.An image of a Largs bowl shows a manipulated material like a hand built clay pot, but it is stone, what kind of stone?? I was asked the other day if there was a time to go back to, what time would I go to? I'd say around 12 to 15 thousand years, then I would go hang out with stone!!ware potters!!!
As far as I know, most or all of the stone used for these bowls and platters is chlorite, which is relatively soft. I'm thinking there could be some limestone or marble ones in the mix, although I haven't heard that yet. And I know there's at least one site where they found an obsidian bowl, which would have been much harder to make.
@thearchaeologistslaborator6591 When we think of primitive or ancient beings, we think of a certain style or technique of pottery. It is quite amazing and another level of intelligence to use stone no matter how soft. They must have influenced the Egyptians. Thanks for your videos
I agree entirely. I think people are a little too quick to infer that any archaeological phenomenon they don't understand must have something to do with ritual or religion.
Extremely fashinating, certanly on my list of places to visit. Makes one suspect that there is morebto discover and also more subtile traces of earlier times.
Definitely. The research over just the last 10 years has completely changed the way we look at this region and I'm sure there will be more exciting finds to come in the next 10.
It is difficult to decide whether interpretations of the structures within these ancient places are based on modern obsessions/beliefs or whether they correctly identify that the people of the neolithic had the same obsessions as we do. I cite as one example the interpretation of the standing stones in one area as representing the phallus and the stone carving of a man with his hand close to his penis as a representation of his progenative powers. Surely in a neolithic society the demonstrable reproductive powers of women would be a focus, rather than the more tenuous relationship of the penis to birth. Given that neolithic people were presumably consumed by the activities related to survival it is hard to see where 'ritual' might fit into their daily routine.
There is no doubt that modern inferences about ancient societies are highly influenced by our own preconceptions and our own culture, especially when the evidence is so ambiguous or difficult to interpret. I suggested that these figures of men holding their penis might have to do with progenitors of lineages in a patrilineal society. If the imagery instead highlighted women, that could have something to do with matrilineages, but I believe only one such image has been found so far: a graffito on a stone at Göbekli Tepe that appears to show a woman giving birth.
Is it coincidental that all these ancient sites are in completely devastated barren wastes. Did ancient people suck the life out of their surrounding world. What would be the purpose of living in such places. Of course the climate was probably different then.
In fact, the environment of these sites probably looked a lot different 9 to 10,000 years ago. Climate change is one element, but also removal of trees for lumber, fuel and agricultural clearance, overgrazing by domesticated sheep and goats, and subsequent erosion by rain and wind probably all contributed to the degraded landscape we see today.
@@thearchaeologistslaborator6591 And also the disappearance of the fauna that those people depended on, due to over-hunting or environment changes. No more migrating aurochs, gazelles, onagres, ...
The *only* difference between professional archaeologists and youtube ones is that where the latter say "alien technology", the former say "ritual". Otherwise, both are prone to making wild "deductions" from scanty or missing evidence. First, given the thousands of years of occupation and very likely changes in climate and local ecology, one cannot assume that any of those stones is still in the same location when it first was laid down, or ended up being used for the same purpose it was first shaped and placed. In fact, it is obvious that many pillars and bench slabs were reused and re-positioned. I would even guess that several of the large pillars were placed in those "rooms" only after these were half-filled with soil. The stone "frames" that are interpreted as "doors" or pillar bases seem quite inadequate for either purpose, and thus were probably re-purposed too. Second, those "rooms" -- dug deep into the basement chalk, with random-shaped pits and narrow connecting "doors" -- make little sense either as living spaces or "ritual community spaces". They make much more sense as cisterns excavated over ancient springs first, then extended or modified to store rainwater. Indeed the availability of water may have been the reason why people settled in those places. Only much later, after the springs dried out, would those old cisterns have been reused as living spaces.
I take your point, but you should not paint all archaeologists with the same brush. For example, I'm a professional archaeologist, but I have been very critical of claims that these Neolithic buildings were specialized ritual buildings. Incidentally, you're quite right that many of the pillars and other features of these sites were sometimes moved and there were other changes and renovations, as the archaeologists have sometimes demonstrated with careful stratigraphic analysis (e.g., Kinzel & Clare's chapter in Monumentalizing Life in the Neolithic.
Is there any real evidence of belief in "gods" - supernatural beings - in the Neolithic? Note that rituals and amulets do *not* imply such beliefs. I would define a ritual as any action that is performed for its symbolic value, rather than its actual physical effect. Thus choosing a new king is not a ritual, but crowning him is. Playing soccer is not a ritual, but giving a cup to the winning team is. Moving into a new building is not a ritual, but cutting the ribbon is. Burying a corpse is not a ritual, but placing goods in the burial is, as well as placing flowers and a tombstone over its tomb. This definition seems "scientific" enough for archaeology, since it usually can be deduced with some confidence whether an action had a concrete effect or not -- without having to guess the thoughts and beliefs of the people, which cannot be "scientific" deductions. But note that none of those rituals implies any belief in supernatural entities or "cosmic" moral imperatives -- that is, they are not "religious" at all. Then there are actions which *we* know have no effect, but which the doers believe they have. This category includes superstitions, old and new. Like, breaking a mirror gives bad luck, carrying a rabbit's foot gives good luck, throwing a coin into a well or spotting a shooting star will grant a wish, etc. The people doing these things expect actual effects from them, only they are wrong about how the world works. But note again that most of these superstitions do *not* imply belief in any supernatural entities. So I ask again, is there evidence that people in the Neolithic believed in supernatural entities? We know from documentary evidence that people did have such beliefs in the Bronze Age, but by then there were priestly classes and "religious enterprises" that fostered those beliefs for their own interest. Maybe that is when and why those beliefs first took hold in the people's minds?
These are excellent points and, to address your main question, I'd have to say, no. there isn't. Cauvin and Schmidt both argued strenuously that the imagery of the early Neolithic had something to do with deities. Personally, I don't buy it. Even though that is one option, it strikes me as more likely that much of this imagery has to do with something like totemism. Animism is another possibility, with animals and even inanimate objects being considered as persons. In short, we do not yet know what is the significance of the imagery at these sites, and people - both archaeologists and non-archaeologists - have just been speculating.
Thank you for continuing to record and show the new Mirazan sites (the original, local local name for the recent official government name). Mirazan means a "miracle maker". The local, childless Kurdish women give offerings at the hill, hoping for a child. The fertility myth of the hills still lingers. Mirazan is the meaningful, local name for this entire super old civilization/culture. A lot better than the silly name of Gobekli ("potbelly"), or Karahan ("black tribal chief", instead of the meaningful local name of Sederi ,”three gates”)-- given to it by the ruling government there . I hope you continue showing us more and more of the Mirazan sites as they get dug up. The name for the entire culture that created these wonderful structures around 12000 years ago is the MIRAZAN CULTURE. Then the local native names should used for individual hills and sites.
Saved it. Thanks. Do you know more about The Tree and circumambulating it seven times and other traditions? Sun-wise, though. One would think, someone would research around to get the record correct...
Andrew Collins, an English archeologist says that the Taştepeler sites were founded by people who moved there from Siberia. He also points out that we see Denisovan influence in the archeological findings there, like the sitting, starving giant man statue (Annunaki?) holding his penis. These spectacular findings are humanities shared history and I hope we can find as much as possible archeological evidence to make sense of where we came from and where we’re going.
You can believe him if you want to, but Andrew Collins is not an archaeologist, and makes facile comparisons to cultures that have nothing to do with these sites, and he ignores any evidence that's inconvenient for his arguments. For him, it's all just about selling millions of books.
@@bardmadsen6956 Hopefully one day it will happen. But first things first: before it become too common, the correct and native name of these places should be used. There was a golden opportunity to do so at the international Neolithic Conference in Urfa a couple of months ago, but nothing happened. "A bird in hand is better than 10 in the bush," no?
Here's the video on the last site I visited during the World Neolithic Congress in Türkiye in November. I hope you find this site as fascinating as I did.
Thank you! Very interesting vid!
Thanks!
The square hole portal is out-of-place for being of any practical use,,making the corners doubled the labor, why?
Thank you for your enjoyable and enlightening program. I look forward to more in the future.
Many thanks!
Fantastic site, looking forward to seeing what else they will uncover there
Me too!
I like your open minded approach to ideas about usage and the importance of using newer post excavation analyses to try to determine the whys and wherefores.
Plus agree re the size of ovens. The ovens outside country houses in Spain are even larger. The families are also large. Even now.
Thanks. I try to be open-minded, though many people accuse us archaeologists of being biased or close-minded....
Given the effort that it must have taken to hollow out those beautiful, surprisingly delicate pots from stone, that was an astonishing treasure hoard they left in the last building.
I agree. Even though chlorite is relatively soft, crafting those vessels would have been time-consuming and required a lot of skill and care.
@@thearchaeologistslaborator6591 I'm curious -- do you know of anyone who has done experimental archaeology to try to reproduce pots of that size with stone tools, to find how many people-hours they take? And have any period manufacturing sites been found showing what the tool kit was? I'm wondering if they had bow drills yet, or other simple drills.
There is a dragon (not a fox) mid right at fourteen fifty five. There is also a spotted serpent along with the "leopard" cloaked person, two symbols of the stars. Thanks for the wet image, I'm an expert in the water industry and have been wondering when someone will release some elevations. Colored Lidar, like The Carolina Bays.
Good points. LiDAR or some other detailed survey would make it possible to model how water could have moved through these features (or not).
@@thearchaeologistslaborator6591 I think the region was very lush and verdure, which it would have to be, to have water at the top of the hill. It sure has the look, but I've seen over ten thousand swimming pools. Maybe water was a key part of the rituals, sure would help to clean up after dispatching Aurochs. I saw you're comment about the Archaeologist's mind set, I find it correct, I have been trying to inform them for a decade. It is all about The Taurids. If any do not understand this, then mankind is never going to get it. It is even in our current global affairs with the Aldebaran colored heifer. I've read a number of Tauroctony books, maybe four, and the authors haven't a clue, just look at the placement of the blade, right at the shoulder blade. There is a sister site with a grave which two Auroch scapula are placed over. And there are a number of these that symbolize the veneration of The Pleiades, the radiant. The Egyptians would lead the Apis Bull around the temple seven times and then afterwards stuffed and placed in carved hard rock boxes in the dark, alike the dark caves of Mithraism. I wish some of you would read my work and catch up. Most of it isn't me, I compiled it on purpose to get very well learned scholars to tell it for me. It took about three years to come up with the idea. The YT Archaeologists can't even read my paragraph posts and block me, the list of books I've read is longer than that! I've known about the Taurid Meteor Stream and its connection with Halloween since 1969. The incredulousness is so profound I have been compelled towards psychology, finding out denial isn't well known, and onto animal cognition, which inadvertently brings in more light to the human condition. Come to find out, Carl Jung / Joseph Campbell have convinced academia that, ironically, (synchronicity?), Mythology is all Bull Shit! We need the hero / adversary to cope with existence. It all boils down to The Sun - Good, The Space Falls - Bad, it is cyclic. But we still use sympathetic magic to hurry it to the end of all ends. Cyclic never ends, unless the species goes extinct. It is even proved by the fact that the 19th Century / early 20th Century linguists did not know about our most recent meteor stream.
Hoping to go in March. Can't wait! Thanks for the information in advance - I'll get there well informed (all being well).
I'm sure you'll enjoy it. There may even be more to see by then.
Really enjoyed your videos on this tour x
Thanks so much!
Very interesting
Nice work ❤️
Thanks!
Really fascinating. So, it's not pre-pottery now?
Actually, we still call it Pre-Pottery Neolithic, even though it has been known, for several decades now, that crude pottery was made occasionally. It never really took off until the end of the Pre-Pottery Neolithic.
Those vessels filled up with soil are pottery or carved rocks I wonder?
They are not pottery. Those are stone vessels. I think most or all of them are carved from chlorite, which is kind of like soapstone.
Great work ❤
Thank you! And Merry Christmas!
@thearchaeologistslaborator6591 ❤️
The Kurdish people brought civilization and enlightenment to our world.
The wild onager is interesting, because it the only representation of an equid I seen at any of these sites,and I ve wondered why they werent being depicted
Not an expert by any means, I am an amateur who is into this stuff as an hobby. Just one drawing of an onager is not really anything to go off of, but it does have intriguing corroboration for some interesting speculation however. Here are my thoughts/speculations.
There are some anthropologists who believe that the modern day Solluba are the heirs/last survivors of the ancient hunter-gatherers in the region, even being associated with the Selappayu in Akkadian records.
I believe the context of the desert kites around Gobekli Tepe and Karahan Tepe were understood by studying the Solluba who I believe are the only people to still use desert kites anywhere in the region (Middle East) for that purpose. The Solluba are famous hunters of gazelle, which seems to match the archeological evidence of the gazelle bones and desert kite use around the Tepe sites.
The Solluba are known as Abu al-Khala (Fathers of the empty spaces) by the Bedouin for example and the Bedouin regularly hire them as guides and hunters.
The Solluba are famous for raising asses, and while the ass is generally viewed negatively from a cultural/religious context, they are still very valuable animals to the Bedouin who prize Solluba donkeys. I wonder how all of this fits in(if at all) to the prestigious nature of Kungas (offspring of a female domesticated donkey and a wild male Syrian wild ass) in Ebla in the 3rd millenium BC before the introduction of horses. I find some intriguing superficial similarities between prized modern Solluba asses, and the prized Kungas of Ebla.
The Solluba are a pariah group in the Middle East shunned much like Gypsies, Cagots in France, or various pariah castes in India. They are not considered true Arabs, and traditionally are denied Qaḥṭānite and ʿAdnānite lineages. I find this fascinating in the context of other Arab myths, such as the destruction of Ad, and the non Arab origin for Medina (Yathrib), and the story of Zarqa al Yamama, a blue eye’d seeress from Pre-Islamic Arabia who’s story reminds me in some ways of Cassandra’s warning to the Trojans about the Trojan Horse being ignored.
The Solluba are considered to have their own unique dialect of Arabic with a number of unique words to them, and westerners and Arabs both believe that they have different physical features than other Arabs, often with fairer eyes and hair.
A few of the portals in the walls look just like...cat doors.
Interesting. But I don't think any of them actually go all the way through the walls.
@@thearchaeologistslaborator6591 But perhaps they were blocked some time after they were made? In the "water works" interpretation of those sites, they would have been originally passages for water, which were blocked when springs dried up or the rainwater was diverted elsewhere, and the "cistern" was reused as habitation...
Make more videos, having a pro with a good voice makes it much easier to learn.
Thanks for the encouragement! I do try, but it's often hard to find enough time. I have a backlog of about 10 videos to finish.
@thearchaeologistslaborator6591 62 you are still going to love doing this and even if it's small if it helps you retire early it's worth it.
Is there some kind of ongoing geologic process happening on the site? I ask because some of the damage to pillars and objects is hard to picture happening. The pillar at 11:00 for instance, looks like a huge amount of energy caused this, far more than just colliding stones in a collapse No? or an truly unholy determination if deliberately broken. I can imagine frost cycles doing this but does it get cold enough there? Fascinating anyway thanks for the video.
These are all good points, and I've been thinking about this also. Some of the damage is fairlly predictable, such as the very weathered tops of pillars that were sticking out of the ground and exposed to rain, snow and frost. But a lot of the buried ones, and especially the toppled ones, look suspiciously like they may have been smashed deliberately. I hope to explore this a little more and I'll do a video if I'm able to find anything out. The other geological processes here are erosion and colluviation, very predictable on such a sloped site.
@@thearchaeologistslaborator6591 Great stuff, thanks for the reply and I'm looking forward to the video.
IIUC the pillars (and practically all the building stones in those sites) are limestone (calcium carbonate), which is easily eroded by rainwater. Calcium carbonate is insoluble in pure water, but rain always contains small amounts of dissolved carbon dioxide, and this turns the calcium carbonate into bicarbonate, which is soluble. (And is what makes ground water "hard" in limestone-rich places).
@@JorgeStolfi that really helps me picture it better, thanks.
@@thearchaeologistslaborator6591 Şanlıurfa is generally a hot and arid province. Summers can rise above 44 degrees celcius. Winters can drop to below zero degrees. Snow height can be up to 20cm, but snowfall is quite rare. The amount of rain is low compared to the average in Turkey. Average 460mm per year.
It appears that every time archaeologists don't know what they're working with they claim that it is a place of worship.
good video
Thanks! Glad you liked it.
Thanks for the share. Seems to me the initial layer with no artifacts represent the original abandoning of the site with natural erosion without human artifacts then re inhabit perhaps later relatives or new tribe. I think it possible the second inhabitation period was when the animal carvings came from. The initial building site i think was more astronomical in nature than the later animal art dominating themes. I like to think a large breed of man/hybrid built these large stone sites before being hunted to extention.
Structure AC was designed to keep the interiors cool, Structure AA was designed to provide energy, and Structure AD was a mausoleum.
u funny happy new year
İkisinin bir arada geçtiği hikayenin yeri .
Yüzleşmeler devam edecek .
Bedrock or terazzo floor??
If you're asking about the building with the stacks of stone vessels, it seems to be a bedrock floor.
Those stoneware vessels are mind-blowing! Imagine smashing and grinding such fine objects out of brittle stone. ##~~* Perhaps they are made of reconstituted stone or geopolymer. *( smash smash grind grind ) After a month of patient tapping and scraping Urgr set the unpolished bowl down beside the pile of dust, grit and rubble left over. He sifted the rubble, added lime and water, and modeled a bigger better bowl before nightfall!
"Geopolymer" is a word that has the same resonance in archaeology as "alien technology".
But indeed, heating limestone (CaCO3) at 950 C (a temperature that can be reached in a wood bonfire) turns it into quicklime (CaO). Quicklime then reacts with water to make "slaked lime" (Ca(OH)2). Slaked lime is plastic like clay, and can be molded into shapes like pots and statuettes, or used (mixed with sand or ground limestone) as "lime mortar" for masonry walls, covering walls and floors etc. Like clay, slaked lime is very fragile when dried. Firing makes clay harder, but it destroys slaked lime. However, over months or years, slaked lime hardens as it absorbs carbon dioxide from air and turns into calcium carbonate again.
Although much softer than Portland cement, aged lime mortar is hard enough for the above uses. Indeed, it may be difficult to distinguish it from natural limestone: one may need a geologist and/or a microscopic examination.
So those pots could in theory be made from lime mortar. But that is unlikely as it would take months or years after molding before they became hard enough to use, and they would still be much more fragile than fired clay pots.
And, no, aged lime mortar is *not* a "geopolymer". Many minerals are indeed polymers, but calcium carbonate is not.
In point of fact, early Neolithic people in Southwest Asia did sometimes make vessels out of plaster (as @jorgStolfi says, it's made from slaked lime). We call it "white ware," and Bonnie Nilhamn, among others, has published on this technology. However, these are not that. They're carved out of stone, I think mostly or entirely chlorite, which is a relatively soft stone (only about 2.5 on the Mohs scale). Having said that, they're still awfully impressive!
According to thearcheologistslaboratory these vessels are neither made of reconstituted stone nor geopolymer ( prend moi pour une quiche ), but are realy cut out of stone!@@JorgeStolfi
Thank you for you prompt reply. I am in awe. Imagine making something so thin whilst pressing it against the palm of your hand
Pretty sophisticated for hunter/gatherers, huh Dibble?
As I've said elsewhere, it's a bit misleading to act as though these are sites of mobile hunter-gatherers. They are Neolithic villages, and pretty sophisticated ones for their time, but that doesn't contradict anything that Flint Dibble has been saying.
@@thearchaeologistslaborator6591 Speculation at best
No. Not just speculation (although there's always some of that in any creative archaeological interpretation). In this case, we have the houses, stone tools, plant remains, and animal bones that shows that the Taş Tepeler sites were Neolithic villages, with hundreds of residents who were both hunting local game (especially gazelles) and harvesting wild wheat and barley.
Au solstice d'hivers le soleil levant au travers de cette ouverture éclaire la tête sculptée dans la citerne aux colonnes .
Cette ouverture devait probablement être equipee dune vanne pour réguler le niveau d'eau de la citerne.
I don’t understand why Karahantepe is already open to public. It seems awfully risky and too close to comfort to let people get too close to these excavation sites for preservation?
Stone plates!!, stone bowls!! As a ceramic artist, many questions arise pertaining to the construction of such ware. Research on these kind of artifacts are needed to fully understand.An image of a Largs bowl shows a manipulated material like a hand built clay pot, but it is stone, what kind of stone?? I was asked the other day if there was a time to go back to, what time would I go to? I'd say around 12 to 15 thousand years, then I would go hang out with stone!!ware potters!!!
As far as I know, most or all of the stone used for these bowls and platters is chlorite, which is relatively soft. I'm thinking there could be some limestone or marble ones in the mix, although I haven't heard that yet. And I know there's at least one site where they found an obsidian bowl, which would have been much harder to make.
@thearchaeologistslaborator6591 When we think of primitive or ancient beings, we think of a certain style or technique of pottery. It is quite amazing and another level of intelligence to use stone no matter how soft. They must have influenced the Egyptians. Thanks for your videos
Cistern looks like a septic tank kind of but not entirely
Just dont conclude that all we dont understand is ritual .. :)
I agree entirely. I think people are a little too quick to infer that any archaeological phenomenon they don't understand must have something to do with ritual or religion.
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Extremely fashinating, certanly on my list of places to visit. Makes one suspect that there is morebto discover and also more subtile traces of earlier times.
Definitely. The research over just the last 10 years has completely changed the way we look at this region and I'm sure there will be more exciting finds to come in the next 10.
It is difficult to decide whether interpretations of the structures within these ancient places are based on modern obsessions/beliefs or whether they correctly identify that the people of the neolithic had the same obsessions as we do. I cite as one example the interpretation of the standing stones in one area as representing the phallus and the stone carving of a man with his hand close to his penis as a representation of his progenative powers. Surely in a neolithic society the demonstrable reproductive powers of women would be a focus, rather than the more tenuous relationship of the penis to birth. Given that neolithic people were presumably consumed by the activities related to survival it is hard to see where 'ritual' might fit into their daily routine.
There is no doubt that modern inferences about ancient societies are highly influenced by our own preconceptions and our own culture, especially when the evidence is so ambiguous or difficult to interpret. I suggested that these figures of men holding their penis might have to do with progenitors of lineages in a patrilineal society. If the imagery instead highlighted women, that could have something to do with matrilineages, but I believe only one such image has been found so far: a graffito on a stone at Göbekli Tepe that appears to show a woman giving birth.
Wine and molasses house !
Is it coincidental that all these ancient sites are in completely devastated barren wastes. Did ancient people suck the life out of their surrounding world. What would be the purpose of living in such places. Of course the climate was probably different then.
In fact, the environment of these sites probably looked a lot different 9 to 10,000 years ago. Climate change is one element, but also removal of trees for lumber, fuel and agricultural clearance, overgrazing by domesticated sheep and goats, and subsequent erosion by rain and wind probably all contributed to the degraded landscape we see today.
@@thearchaeologistslaborator6591 And also the disappearance of the fauna that those people depended on, due to over-hunting or environment changes. No more migrating aurochs, gazelles, onagres, ...
in turkey every corner is a Old thing .
The *only* difference between professional archaeologists and youtube ones is that where the latter say "alien technology", the former say "ritual". Otherwise, both are prone to making wild "deductions" from scanty or missing evidence.
First, given the thousands of years of occupation and very likely changes in climate and local ecology, one cannot assume that any of those stones is still in the same location when it first was laid down, or ended up being used for the same purpose it was first shaped and placed. In fact, it is obvious that many pillars and bench slabs were reused and re-positioned. I would even guess that several of the large pillars were placed in those "rooms" only after these were half-filled with soil. The stone "frames" that are interpreted as "doors" or pillar bases seem quite inadequate for either purpose, and thus were probably re-purposed too.
Second, those "rooms" -- dug deep into the basement chalk, with random-shaped pits and narrow connecting "doors" -- make little sense either as living spaces or "ritual community spaces". They make much more sense as cisterns excavated over ancient springs first, then extended or modified to store rainwater. Indeed the availability of water may have been the reason why people settled in those places. Only much later, after the springs dried out, would those old cisterns have been reused as living spaces.
I take your point, but you should not paint all archaeologists with the same brush. For example, I'm a professional archaeologist, but I have been very critical of claims that these Neolithic buildings were specialized ritual buildings. Incidentally, you're quite right that many of the pillars and other features of these sites were sometimes moved and there were other changes and renovations, as the archaeologists have sometimes demonstrated with careful stratigraphic analysis (e.g., Kinzel & Clare's chapter in Monumentalizing Life in the Neolithic.
@@thearchaeologistslaborator6591 Thanks! Indeed, please have my apologies for the unwarranted generalization...
Is there any real evidence of belief in "gods" - supernatural beings - in the Neolithic? Note that rituals and amulets do *not* imply such beliefs.
I would define a ritual as any action that is performed for its symbolic value, rather than its actual physical effect. Thus choosing a new king is not a ritual, but crowning him is. Playing soccer is not a ritual, but giving a cup to the winning team is. Moving into a new building is not a ritual, but cutting the ribbon is. Burying a corpse is not a ritual, but placing goods in the burial is, as well as placing flowers and a tombstone over its tomb. This definition seems "scientific" enough for archaeology, since it usually can be deduced with some confidence whether an action had a concrete effect or not -- without having to guess the thoughts and beliefs of the people, which cannot be "scientific" deductions. But note that none of those rituals implies any belief in supernatural entities or "cosmic" moral imperatives -- that is, they are not "religious" at all.
Then there are actions which *we* know have no effect, but which the doers believe they have. This category includes superstitions, old and new. Like, breaking a mirror gives bad luck, carrying a rabbit's foot gives good luck, throwing a coin into a well or spotting a shooting star will grant a wish, etc. The people doing these things expect actual effects from them, only they are wrong about how the world works. But note again that most of these superstitions do *not* imply belief in any supernatural entities.
So I ask again, is there evidence that people in the Neolithic believed in supernatural entities? We know from documentary evidence that people did have such beliefs in the Bronze Age, but by then there were priestly classes and "religious enterprises" that fostered those beliefs for their own interest. Maybe that is when and why those beliefs first took hold in the people's minds?
These are excellent points and, to address your main question, I'd have to say, no. there isn't. Cauvin and Schmidt both argued strenuously that the imagery of the early Neolithic had something to do with deities. Personally, I don't buy it. Even though that is one option, it strikes me as more likely that much of this imagery has to do with something like totemism. Animism is another possibility, with animals and even inanimate objects being considered as persons. In short, we do not yet know what is the significance of the imagery at these sites, and people - both archaeologists and non-archaeologists - have just been speculating.
I do not believe that everything we found from the ancient past has to do with religion and rituals.
I agree!
Thank you for continuing to record and show the new Mirazan sites (the original, local local name for the recent official government name). Mirazan means a "miracle maker". The local, childless Kurdish women give offerings at the hill, hoping for a child. The fertility myth of the hills still lingers. Mirazan is the meaningful, local name for this entire super old civilization/culture. A lot better than the silly name of Gobekli ("potbelly"), or Karahan ("black tribal chief", instead of the meaningful local name of Sederi ,”three gates”)-- given to it by the ruling government there . I hope you continue showing us more and more of the Mirazan sites as they get dug up. The name for the entire culture that created these wonderful structures around 12000 years ago is the MIRAZAN CULTURE. Then the local native names should used for individual hills and sites.
Saved it. Thanks. Do you know more about The Tree and circumambulating it seven times and other traditions? Sun-wise, though. One would think, someone would research around to get the record correct...
Thanks for this. I take it that "Mirazan" is Kurdish?
Andrew Collins, an English archeologist says that the Taştepeler sites were founded by people who moved there from Siberia. He also points out that we see Denisovan influence in the archeological findings there, like the sitting, starving giant man statue (Annunaki?) holding his penis. These spectacular findings are humanities shared history and I hope we can find as much as possible archeological evidence to make sense of where we came from and where we’re going.
You can believe him if you want to, but Andrew Collins is not an archaeologist, and makes facile comparisons to cultures that have nothing to do with these sites, and he ignores any evidence that's inconvenient for his arguments. For him, it's all just about selling millions of books.
@@bardmadsen6956 Hopefully one day it will happen. But first things first: before it become too common, the correct and native name of these places should be used. There was a golden opportunity to do so at the international Neolithic Conference in Urfa a couple of months ago, but nothing happened. "A bird in hand is better than 10 in the bush," no?
Ancient portals to Unknown Worlds.
Not really. Thats what unemployed ladies touring Gobeklitepe are made to believe however.