They've got a lot in common, so let's put them side by side and see how they stack up. To support RTFM, consider pledging at / rtfm Twitter: / rtfmshow Instagram: / rtfmshow Personal Twitter: / sheasayswords
In regards to story I think War of the Ring does it better. The fact that the free peoples armies don't respawn gives each battle weight and when characters die you really do feel that lose. In Rebellilon characters pop around the galaxy without (apart from a few cards) ever facing any real dangers and if the rebals loses their Mon Calamari cruiser its only ever a strategic loss. Nothing in Rebellion is as tragic as watching the entierty of Rohan burn under Saurumams armies, as bittersweet as watching Gimli and Legolas going down together as the the Woodland Realm fall or as heroic as seeing that Frodo, Boromir and Sam make it all the way to mordor, together.
I disagree wholeheartedly. They’re both close though. But I don’t feel as though non respawning units adds to the story that much. Everytime I’ve played Rebellion it’s like we’re playing a different version of the original trilogy, and talking about it is a tonne of fun after the game. War of the Rings story is still amazing, but I don’t quite think it’s on Rebellions level
And think about the ents breaking the siege of Helm's Deep and then turn around and kill Saruman in Orthanc. I have the expansion and it happened to me just yesterday and it was sooo epic. Or, which also happened yesterday, having the eagles come down in the siege of Minas Tirith, kill 2 Nazgul, and make the rest of them plus the WK flee in terror. Minas Tirith fell in the end, but that was such a great moment.
Great video and I completely agree! War of the Ring is probably my favourite game of all time, but Rebellion is still a brilliant experience. It’s like the difference between a 10/10 and a 9/10 game - they’re both excellent!
Rise of the Empire expansion is absolutely essential for Star Wars Rebellion. You can still use the base game setup while using the expansion. Playing rebels is leading an insurgency. Once you’ve mastered the style it can feel very rewarding.
I have to admit, haven't played WotR yet, but have played Rebellion, and what Rebellion does really well is the feeling of being an insurgent. Have only played Imperial, and my friend is really fascinating how with just small moves can clog my entire warmachine to a halt. I remember finding his base, and all he did was sabotage my closest planet, and then position his fleet in a way that just held me up for long enough my blob of a massive fleet was just not gonna get there in time.
Great comparison. I love LOTR and wanted so badly to not like Rebellion as it felt like a small betrayal to War if I liked it...as silly as that is in reality. I was really blown away at Rebellion. I own both and will not part with either. I definitely think the hidden aspect of the rebel base is more straightforward than the finding the Fellowship aspect. But both are really solid!
As an owner of both games, I can say they're very different in how they feel. Combat is not just secondary in Rebellion, it's basically non-essential. One of my friends was playing as Empire and almost never started combat himself, even more, he tried to avoid it when I was trying to force it. And it was strangely effective. He wom that time. In the war of the ring you're tied to combat, you cannot avoid it for too long.
War of the Ring has a great emergent story arc to each game, with a definite beginning, middle, and end. In the beginning, the Fellowship moves along without too much worry while the both sides muster their armies and maybe a quick early battle. In the middle, the hunt for the ring intensifies and member of the fellowship leave one way or another, while the shadow besieges much of Middle Earth. In the end, there's a desperate push on both sides to dunk the ring and wrap up those 10VP for the shadow. Not every game has these particular elements, obviously, as multiple victory conditions give more flexibility, but they all have that kind of shape.
@Babes & Board Games you can definitely get caught at the beginning, but you don't feel the consequences as much, especially if you can take Gandalf as a casualty to help bring in Gandalf the White.
You're great bro. Your videos are fun to watch but also properly informative and well thought out. You also have way better audio than the vast majority of board gaming channels too, which I appreciate. Keep up the good work.
Thanks so much! Audio is a really difficult thing to nail down, and I've gone through a ton of iterations to get to my current setup. Glad to hear it's sounding good!
One thing that I don’t like about War of the Rings are figures that is no-issue in Rebellion that is worth mentioning. In LOTR you have 5 or 3 armies, that have the same colour but you cannot use them in the same way for a long time, especially when you are playing 2v2. In Rebellion you have two opposing armies and in 2v2 it really clear who is fighting with fleet and who with ground forces. I would love to see some 3rd party add-on that would help to tell the 5/3 armies apart easier!
@@RTFM i found some plastic color stands for units on etsy, I think I know what an owner of the WoR in our group will be getting on his birthday, if he won’t paint'em until then.. 😅 that said, after few games, mostly as Shadow, I can identify Shadow three factions all right now, but FP are still a pain. I wonder if after few more it will be less an issue:)
This was noted by SU&SD on one of their reviews, but for me the question of which game is superior becomes pointed on the second play through of each. Second play through of WotR I just wanted to play the same side over again and pick at that puzzle. My wife and I have now played WotR a few dozen times over the course of three years and I have yet to play the free peoples. Nor do I want to. The puzzle with the faction I’ve been playing is endlessly rewarding. It’ll be a whole new experience if we do ever decide to switch. With Rebellion on the second play through I wanted to switch sides immediately, which indicates (to me, not to mention Quentin Smith) that the experience is driven by novelty rather than how enriching the puzzle is. I believe WotR is a better game, but both really are rather excellent in their own ways. Nice vid.
That's so interesting! I love switching between the two factions in WotR, but I gotta say, I wouldn't mind sticking with one for a while and really getting to know them.
I feel the same way about not switching. In our first game I let my wife play Shadow because I thought it would be easier for her to learn if she didn't need to worry about the rules for moving the Fellowship. Despite having lost all of our games so far I've not felt the urge to switch because I just want to learn how to play the Free Peoples well.
Thanks for the video. I have played Star Wars Rebellion (w/ expansion) once. It was a lot to learn but super fun and thematic, and I definitely want to play it more. However, I don't think I'll get much chance to play it more with my friend who owns it since we usually get together with 3-5 players, so I have been thinking about getting my own copy. But it is a big expense, especially with the expansion, so I may just see if I'm able to pick them up on sale at some point. I haven't played War of the Ring yet, but I would love to try it someday.
I liked your video. I have both games in my collection, but despite being a bigger SW fan than a LOTR one, I pick WotR as the very slightly better of the two. I am happy to play either game whenever I can, though.
Rise of the Empire is essential. It fixes the problems with the base game. I'd like to see them release a second edition of Rebellion, with those fixes built in, and maybe improve it a little.
Everyone i have taught War of the Ring to has enjoyed it in the first play. Some immediately bought their own copy. The rules are a beast to grok initially, the rule book is pretty bad IMO, but you are completely correct that referencing the rules is rarely needed once you get them down. Both sides of war of the ring are incredibly engaging. Its pretty remarkable. The big red war machine has so many fun toys between the nazgul and the combat abilities. The free peoples have fantastic problems to solve with a wide range of tool choices from the huge and diverse hero pool they get. Should be mentioned that its half the price of rebellion with the required expansion. But... the production quality for star wars is that over the top as well. Both games are beautiful, and I think war of the ring has more functional bits for actually playing, while star wars is more fiddly but just amazingly nice to look at.
I'm usually pretty good a keeping my Shelf of Shame quite small but I'm a little embarrassed to admit that I've had Rebellion, War of the Ring, Dune and Chaos in the Old World for several months and have yet to get them to the table. Unfortunately I'm attracted to epic thematic strategy games but my partner and most of my gaming groups are just not into them. I do get to play TI4 every few months (and got to playtest the expansion) so that's something at least! Of the ones I have played my faves are TI4, Rising Sun and Forbidden Stars. Forbidden Stars really calls for digging into the factions and all their customisation possibilities and would really benefit from repeated plays with the same people, but for me it only comes out maybe once a year, and usually with someone who hasn't played it before. I highly recommend it if you can get your hands on a copy now it's permanently out of print. Also Nightcrawler is my fave X-Man too!
That is certainly the downside to these epic games. Especially during quarantine it can be really tough to get these games to the table. WotR is the only exception for me because my roommate is always down to play that game.
I own Rebellion and a friend of mine owns War if the Ring. Overall I like Rebellion more, which is great since I own it. I like the planning part and the way you make decisions more with Rebellion. Also I tend to play both as 4 player games more than 2 players. I know a lot of people will only play 1 vs 1 but I think both are fine as 2 vs 2. Rebellion in particular feels more strategic with having to balance leader types
@@JM16714 nah I only play TI 4 with 6 players. Would like to try 8 with the expansion. Plus War of the Ring and Rebellion being 2v2 is nice to have a team member.
Same with me! I own Rebellion and my friend owns WotR. I also really like the 2v2 system (at least in Rebellion, haven’t tried it in WotR). But I can see why others don’t like it, as you need the right people for it to be fun (players who talk and plan cooperatively, rather than micromanaging alpha gamers who need things done their way).
@@TheProteanGeek There are three things about 2v2 in Rebellion that I really like compared to 1v1: 1. It removes the awkwardness of having to keep track of mission cards *and* action cards. 2. It slightly balances the Rebel’s advantage of going first by letting the Empire be the first to play two actions in a row. 3. It creates a greater distinction between ground and space leaders by restricting them to certain turns (which makes planning which leader does what more interesting).
Well, finally got around to playing War of the Ring (I tossed between the two originally and bought Rebellion with Rise), and I have to say I’m happy with my purchase. War of the Ring is a good game, but even before we started I knew the action dice selection would bug me in a war strategy game, and I was right. Didn’t get Saruman out on the board until turn 4, due to not rolling a single muster die for turns 1 & 2, only one on turn 3 (to set Isengard at war on politics track), and then finally got him out. Yes there’s the Elven Rings to re-roll, but you’re at the mercy of the FP player to get a chance of a wild dice (which they never used until late game due to an insane amount of Will of the West rolls). If there’s no real option to re-roll dice or at least convert dice to a required action (even if not efficient), then it really removes an important layer of strategy. As such, I much prefer the planning in Rebellion, as you have more control over your strategy (same applies to how you can build in conquered planets, unlike the recruitment in WotR). Rebellion also has far more memorable moments in the game. Although I won WotR militarily with Shadow, the only real memorable moment was one siege with the Witch-King vs Aragorn on the coast of Gondor. I also found the combat (even in the base game of Rebellion) to be far more interesting than a single roll of 5-6 in WotR. A lot of the event cards in WotR are very repetitive for their combat effects, and too many seemed to negate each other, resulting in just the straight combat dice roll anyway…almost felt like I was playing a glorified version of Risk at some points. Would be curious to replay WotR with Lords and Warriors expansions, and I’d happily play it if someone wanted to, but for me Rebellion is a much better game.
How the heck is your channel not at least 10x more popular than it is? Such great content. :) Regarding these two games, any serious gamer should own both of them... especially if you love both LOTR and SW. Amazing games!
I have both games and i have only played Rebellion 5 or so times. I havent played WOTR because its too complex to learn. But I am going to now watch ur learn to play video and take a shot at it. This was an awesome comparison!
I've played War of the Ring a couple of times and I've watched a couple of playthroughs of Star Wars Rebellion and if you want a board game that encapsulates the feel of the actual trilogy it's based on, War of the Ring does it way better imo. If you're looking for a game that gives you the feel of the fellowship going on a quest to destroy the ring until all the surviving members go on their own side quest to join the not less important war effort, War of the Ring will guarantee you this experience. If you're looking for a game where Luke, Han and Leia lead the Rebellion on a quest to liberate the galaxy from the Empire, Star Wars Rebellion does not nececarelly guarantee you this experience. Instead you're guaranteed a
I think the goals actually lean towards Star Wars for thematic purposes. The Rebellion's goal IS to not lose until they can cut off the head. That's pretty much been what they've been doing since their inception is to survive, damage the Empire where possible, and try to find a way to crumble the Empire. There was absolutely no hope of the Rebellion ever winning a conventional war with the Galactic Empire. I think it also makes the planning and head games matter all the more. You have to use mind-games in order to play well. Failing strategies is a matter of being out-played in the mindgame department for the most part, sometimes luck can get you to triumph or fail where you had the advantage but for the most part it is very focused on strategy. It emphasizes the cat and mouse reality of the game and of the conflict. The Empire will always win if given an enemy to concentrate all its resources and forces on. I think the games are quite comparable. One is not necessarily better than the other, it is appealing to different people and designed for different stories. There is one point in the favor of Rebellion, which is if you have 4 people playing Rebellion handles it a lot better.
Great video! I love both games, but I’m biased towards War of the Ring because it’s my favorite fantasy series with Star Wars being a close second. Do you think you’ll get around to reviewing the expansions for War of the Ring at all?
I plan on doing those this year. Hopefully in the next three months.
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LotR is the better of the two (always imo). My take is that games designed for two are better. At 2 vs 2, those two are a lot better: 1754: Conquest - The French and Indian War, 1775: Rebellion. For 4 or 5, Blood Rage Lite is the king (it's free on BGG's file section of Blood Rage).
Great video, I like and own both. I am lucky enough to own the collector edition of war of the ring. I would say the rebellion expansion win versus war of the ring two expansions as it improves the game without adding complexity.
I haven't tried the WotR expansions yet, but they do look a little complex. I'd say that Rebellion needed to fix some issues with their expansion, so it replaced some stuff instead of adding, thus keeping the overall complexity low. WotR on the other hand mostly just wanted to add new stuff, which is fine, but does make it more complicated.
I would say that if you like both IPs, you should probably get both the games. You won't be disappointed. I love the story element and combat in WOTR, and I love the hidden movement/trying to bluff where your base planet is in Star Wars. Both of these games are my Rank 1 and 2 in terms of Most favorite board games of all times. Just one note of caution before you buy- These games are long and not an easy teach. You will need a player who is as dedicated and involved as you are to table these often. Otherwise there is a big chance it might just end up lying on your shelf. The setup time for both is also quite long [can even take more than 30 mins initially], and expect to set aside at least 5-6 hours [I usually keep the entire day free], when you are tabling them, for one game. WOTR is a 10/10 game for me. Star Wars Rebellion is a close 9.5/10. But that is mostly because I am a bigger LOTR fan as compared to Star Wars.
War of the Ring takes a long time to explain all of the interlocking systems. The Fellowship affects Companions and Politics, Companions affect Politics and War, Politics affects War, War affects the Fellowship, Companions, and Politics. But once you're playing the game, and making decisions, 90% of the game is looking at your 4-9 action dice, and deciding what you want to do. Even the Free Peoples player looking at a Character die only has 6 or so things they can do with the die. The decision space is pretty small, and it's well organized into nested structures. Which die do I want to use? My choices are *at most* Character, Army, Muster, Event, and Pass. Free People's also gets Will of the West, so Wild / Special. Which action do I want to take? Then for things like Character / Army dice moving armies, or Character dice separating companions, you have to pick which one.
I kind of think it is crazy comparing them. They are both phenomenal. The only caveat I would put in is that I think the Rise of the Empire expansion for Rebellion is what puts the games essentially on par. In other words War of the Ring is better then base game Rebellion but I can't decide which one l like more if we are including the Rebellion with the expansion. Maybe I eventually will have a more definite opinion once I play them both about 20 more times. No doubt everyone else would as well. The games are expensive but you should get them both - which one you get first should probably be decided by which lore excites you most.
LOL..I'm still undecided which of the two?? Cuz I like both Star Wars & LOTR Movies but.. if it's to t-shirts I own n wear... it's Star Wars.. hmm. Will need to watch more of ur videos 🎲😉
Personally, I think it will come down to which "lore" you love the most. If you don't have a love for these IP's (not just casual) you will probably hate these games! Both require significant time to learn and master. That said, if you love the lore of one or both, these games offer an immersive experience that is just amazing! I LOVE both IP's and give the edge to WotR. The Anniversary Edition is simply breathtaking. Spring for some custom add-ons (glass tokens, laser printed mountain ranges with Mt Doom & cities and you will literally be playing inside the books. Folks will awe at it just being set up on the table (and taking up the entire table at that).
Which one is best will constantly change depending on you mood at the time. Both of these games have locked all others out of contention for best 2 player game ever made for years.
War of the Ring(WotR) > Star Wars Rebellion(SWR). SWR NEEDS the the Rise of the Empire(RotE) expansion to have variety. Without RotE, the game is the same pretty much every single time. With WotR, you don't need the expansions, it is a new game every time
i own both and love both. I feel like I feel like their IPs pretty accurately reflect the feel of the game. That is to say, Rebellion is more fun and lighthearted and WotR is more serious, thoughtful, and grand. Both are great games, but I think personally I would rather play WotR
That is the eternal dilemma. You could always try finding someone to play with online. I don't know about SWR but I'm pretty sure WotR has a pretty active fan discord server. Best of luck!
I am thinking to get war of the rings , but after you said that rebellion (with expansion)have better combat mechanics "hands down" i will skip it... Why , because after playing more than 30 games of star wars Rebellion i can easily state that it has one of the most boring , clunky mechanics in board gaming... Is the combat mechanic of War of the rings that bad ?
Hey, can you explain this a bit more, please? I am considering to buy SW Rebellion or War of the Rings, but you sound a bit disappointed. Thanks in advance! And I am also interested if the WotR mechanics are still state of the art in 2023? Lately, I am coming mainly from Eclipse Second Dawn of the Galaxy and Dune Imperium.
@@d4ydream I am only knowledgeable in Star Wars Rebellion, this is the base game's. Unlike many believe, the combat is not complex, it's just slow and clunky. First off, ground and space battles happen simultaneously (apparently the attackers get enough time to land troops before engaging with the defender's fleet, if there is any). Each round is alternating between space and ground battles. For sake of simplicity, let's suppose it's just a fleet skirmich with no ground battle. Depending on each faction generals you put a set of cards, those cards, in the base game, allow you to either assign additional damage or subtract damage. For each phase, starting by the attacker, dice are thrown : results being, hit, critical hit, and command. Hit, allows you to assign damage depending on the nature of the attack : either black for light units (Starfighters in space battles), or red for capital ships (Corvettes, cruisers or star destroyers). Critical hits, allows you to assign damage regardless of dice color (an X-wing can damage a star destroyer, or a Mon-Calamari turbolaser would be able to hit a tie fighter for example). Command, allows you to draw cards or play some cards that require it. By playing cards, you can boost up additional damage. The damage is then assigned to desired units. To take into consideration, if a unit is "destroyed" it's not effectively destroyed until the end of the round. Then it's the defender's turn, it plays similarly. Except, they can play cards to deny damage, if they have them. And if your units are damaged by the end of the defender's phase you can play cards to deny damage to your units. The end of the first round is resolved then by both players taking out their respective destroyed units (if they have any). And then, to the next round, until either one side gets destroyed or retreats. At the start of each round, a player can announce whether they'd like to retreat or not, it happens at the end of the round. Now, the problems : 1) due to how retreat works (if it is possible), you have to alternate between space and ground battles for each round. Two different fronts, alternatively. 2) due to dice rolls, and some cards, there may be a few rounds where absolutely no damage would be dealt. Dragging the battle further. 3) you can roll maximum of 10 dice : 5 black dice for light damage, 5 red dice for big damage, no matter how many units are present in the battle. The large battles tend to consequently drag. The expansion makes the cards less annoying, also more diverse as some units become more effective against others, the units block damage by rolling a new green dice, and the commander allows to reroll damage dice. Which practically addresses one of the three previous criticisms. Also, adds slightly more depth to battles.
@@AAhmou Thanks a lot, this was an extensive and very helpful answer! Would give you several thumbs up if I could! I understand now why the other guy was a bit disappointed about the combat mechanics, but War of the Ring is also more or the less rolling dice if you break it down.
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In regards to story I think War of the Ring does it better. The fact that the free peoples armies don't respawn gives each battle weight and when characters die you really do feel that lose. In Rebellilon characters pop around the galaxy without (apart from a few cards) ever facing any real dangers and if the rebals loses their Mon Calamari cruiser its only ever a strategic loss.
Nothing in Rebellion is as tragic as watching the entierty of Rohan burn under Saurumams armies, as bittersweet as watching Gimli and Legolas going down together as the the Woodland Realm fall or as heroic as seeing that Frodo, Boromir and Sam make it all the way to mordor, together.
Beautifully said!
Few things compare to that first time Boromir simply walks into Mordor.
I disagree wholeheartedly. They’re both close though. But I don’t feel as though non respawning units adds to the story that much. Everytime I’ve played Rebellion it’s like we’re playing a different version of the original trilogy, and talking about it is a tonne of fun after the game. War of the Rings story is still amazing, but I don’t quite think it’s on Rebellions level
It’s actually comes down more to which movies you liked more, I like both of the trilogies but I still like war of the ring more
And think about the ents breaking the siege of Helm's Deep and then turn around and kill Saruman in Orthanc. I have the expansion and it happened to me just yesterday and it was sooo epic. Or, which also happened yesterday, having the eagles come down in the siege of Minas Tirith, kill 2 Nazgul, and make the rest of them plus the WK flee in terror. Minas Tirith fell in the end, but that was such a great moment.
Great video and I completely agree! War of the Ring is probably my favourite game of all time, but Rebellion is still a brilliant experience. It’s like the difference between a 10/10 and a 9/10 game - they’re both excellent!
Exactly!
Rise of the Empire expansion is absolutely essential for Star Wars Rebellion. You can still use the base game setup while using the expansion. Playing rebels is leading an insurgency. Once you’ve mastered the style it can feel very rewarding.
I have to admit, haven't played WotR yet, but have played Rebellion, and what Rebellion does really well is the feeling of being an insurgent. Have only played Imperial, and my friend is really fascinating how with just small moves can clog my entire warmachine to a halt. I remember finding his base, and all he did was sabotage my closest planet, and then position his fleet in a way that just held me up for long enough my blob of a massive fleet was just not gonna get there in time.
Great comparison. I love LOTR and wanted so badly to not like Rebellion as it felt like a small betrayal to War if I liked it...as silly as that is in reality. I was really blown away at Rebellion. I own both and will not part with either. I definitely think the hidden aspect of the rebel base is more straightforward than the finding the Fellowship aspect. But both are really solid!
As an owner of both games, I can say they're very different in how they feel.
Combat is not just secondary in Rebellion, it's basically non-essential. One of my friends was playing as Empire and almost never started combat himself, even more, he tried to avoid it when I was trying to force it. And it was strangely effective. He wom that time.
In the war of the ring you're tied to combat, you cannot avoid it for too long.
War of the Ring has a great emergent story arc to each game, with a definite beginning, middle, and end. In the beginning, the Fellowship moves along without too much worry while the both sides muster their armies and maybe a quick early battle. In the middle, the hunt for the ring intensifies and member of the fellowship leave one way or another, while the shadow besieges much of Middle Earth. In the end, there's a desperate push on both sides to dunk the ring and wrap up those 10VP for the shadow. Not every game has these particular elements, obviously, as multiple victory conditions give more flexibility, but they all have that kind of shape.
Well said!
@Babes & Board Games you can definitely get caught at the beginning, but you don't feel the consequences as much, especially if you can take Gandalf as a casualty to help bring in Gandalf the White.
You're great bro. Your videos are fun to watch but also properly informative and well thought out. You also have way better audio than the vast majority of board gaming channels too, which I appreciate. Keep up the good work.
Thanks so much! Audio is a really difficult thing to nail down, and I've gone through a ton of iterations to get to my current setup. Glad to hear it's sounding good!
One thing that I don’t like about War of the Rings are figures that is no-issue in Rebellion that is worth mentioning. In LOTR you have 5 or 3 armies, that have the same colour but you cannot use them in the same way for a long time, especially when you are playing 2v2. In Rebellion you have two opposing armies and in 2v2 it really clear who is fighting with fleet and who with ground forces.
I would love to see some 3rd party add-on that would help to tell the 5/3 armies apart easier!
Fully agree. It's why so many people paint their WotR armies, but I wish it wasn't necessary.
@@RTFM i found some plastic color stands for units on etsy, I think I know what an owner of the WoR in our group will be getting on his birthday, if he won’t paint'em until then.. 😅 that said, after few games, mostly as Shadow, I can identify Shadow three factions all right now, but FP are still a pain. I wonder if after few more it will be less an issue:)
This was noted by SU&SD on one of their reviews, but for me the question of which game is superior becomes pointed on the second play through of each.
Second play through of WotR I just wanted to play the same side over again and pick at that puzzle. My wife and I have now played WotR a few dozen times over the course of three years and I have yet to play the free peoples. Nor do I want to. The puzzle with the faction I’ve been playing is endlessly rewarding. It’ll be a whole new experience if we do ever decide to switch.
With Rebellion on the second play through I wanted to switch sides immediately, which indicates (to me, not to mention Quentin Smith) that the experience is driven by novelty rather than how enriching the puzzle is.
I believe WotR is a better game, but both really are rather excellent in their own ways. Nice vid.
That's so interesting! I love switching between the two factions in WotR, but I gotta say, I wouldn't mind sticking with one for a while and really getting to know them.
I feel the same way about not switching. In our first game I let my wife play Shadow because I thought it would be easier for her to learn if she didn't need to worry about the rules for moving the Fellowship. Despite having lost all of our games so far I've not felt the urge to switch because I just want to learn how to play the Free Peoples well.
Thanks for the video. I have played Star Wars Rebellion (w/ expansion) once. It was a lot to learn but super fun and thematic, and I definitely want to play it more. However, I don't think I'll get much chance to play it more with my friend who owns it since we usually get together with 3-5 players, so I have been thinking about getting my own copy. But it is a big expense, especially with the expansion, so I may just see if I'm able to pick them up on sale at some point.
I haven't played War of the Ring yet, but I would love to try it someday.
I liked your video. I have both games in my collection, but despite being a bigger SW fan than a LOTR one, I pick WotR as the very slightly better of the two. I am happy to play either game whenever I can, though.
Your taste in games is the best taste in games! 🙌 love them both!!
Aw, thanks Roy!
Good job. You can explain very complex games in very understandable and fun way. 👍
Thanks!
Rise of the Empire is essential. It fixes the problems with the base game.
I'd like to see them release a second edition of Rebellion, with those fixes built in, and maybe improve it a little.
why? game is quite new... if the expansion fixes it, jsut get that. WHy are some ppl so wiling to lose their money
Everyone i have taught War of the Ring to has enjoyed it in the first play. Some immediately bought their own copy. The rules are a beast to grok initially, the rule book is pretty bad IMO, but you are completely correct that referencing the rules is rarely needed once you get them down. Both sides of war of the ring are incredibly engaging. Its pretty remarkable. The big red war machine has so many fun toys between the nazgul and the combat abilities. The free peoples have fantastic problems to solve with a wide range of tool choices from the huge and diverse hero pool they get.
Should be mentioned that its half the price of rebellion with the required expansion. But... the production quality for star wars is that over the top as well. Both games are beautiful, and I think war of the ring has more functional bits for actually playing, while star wars is more fiddly but just amazingly nice to look at.
I'm usually pretty good a keeping my Shelf of Shame quite small but I'm a little embarrassed to admit that I've had Rebellion, War of the Ring, Dune and Chaos in the Old World for several months and have yet to get them to the table. Unfortunately I'm attracted to epic thematic strategy games but my partner and most of my gaming groups are just not into them. I do get to play TI4 every few months (and got to playtest the expansion) so that's something at least!
Of the ones I have played my faves are TI4, Rising Sun and Forbidden Stars. Forbidden Stars really calls for digging into the factions and all their customisation possibilities and would really benefit from repeated plays with the same people, but for me it only comes out maybe once a year, and usually with someone who hasn't played it before. I highly recommend it if you can get your hands on a copy now it's permanently out of print.
Also Nightcrawler is my fave X-Man too!
That is certainly the downside to these epic games. Especially during quarantine it can be really tough to get these games to the table. WotR is the only exception for me because my roommate is always down to play that game.
I own Rebellion and a friend of mine owns War if the Ring. Overall I like Rebellion more, which is great since I own it. I like the planning part and the way you make decisions more with Rebellion.
Also I tend to play both as 4 player games more than 2 players. I know a lot of people will only play 1 vs 1 but I think both are fine as 2 vs 2. Rebellion in particular feels more strategic with having to balance leader types
If you have 4 players that want to play a long game... you should be playing TI4 instead ;)
@@JM16714 nah I only play TI 4 with 6 players. Would like to try 8 with the expansion. Plus War of the Ring and Rebellion being 2v2 is nice to have a team member.
Same with me! I own Rebellion and my friend owns WotR. I also really like the 2v2 system (at least in Rebellion, haven’t tried it in WotR). But I can see why others don’t like it, as you need the right people for it to be fun (players who talk and plan cooperatively, rather than micromanaging alpha gamers who need things done their way).
@@TheProteanGeek There are three things about 2v2 in Rebellion that I really like compared to 1v1:
1. It removes the awkwardness of having to keep track of mission cards *and* action cards.
2. It slightly balances the Rebel’s advantage of going first by letting the Empire be the first to play two actions in a row.
3. It creates a greater distinction between ground and space leaders by restricting them to certain turns (which makes planning which leader does what more interesting).
Well, finally got around to playing War of the Ring (I tossed between the two originally and bought Rebellion with Rise), and I have to say I’m happy with my purchase. War of the Ring is a good game, but even before we started I knew the action dice selection would bug me in a war strategy game, and I was right.
Didn’t get Saruman out on the board until turn 4, due to not rolling a single muster die for turns 1 & 2, only one on turn 3 (to set Isengard at war on politics track), and then finally got him out.
Yes there’s the Elven Rings to re-roll, but you’re at the mercy of the FP player to get a chance of a wild dice (which they never used until late game due to an insane amount of Will of the West rolls).
If there’s no real option to re-roll dice or at least convert dice to a required action (even if not efficient), then it really removes an important layer of strategy.
As such, I much prefer the planning in Rebellion, as you have more control over your strategy (same applies to how you can build in conquered planets, unlike the recruitment in WotR).
Rebellion also has far more memorable moments in the game. Although I won WotR militarily with Shadow, the only real memorable moment was one siege with the Witch-King vs Aragorn on the coast of Gondor.
I also found the combat (even in the base game of Rebellion) to be far more interesting than a single roll of 5-6 in WotR.
A lot of the event cards in WotR are very repetitive for their combat effects, and too many seemed to negate each other, resulting in just the straight combat dice roll anyway…almost felt like I was playing a glorified version of Risk at some points.
Would be curious to replay WotR with Lords and Warriors expansions, and I’d happily play it if someone wanted to, but for me Rebellion is a much better game.
Thanks for the review! I've been toying with which one to get for a while now. Going with War of the Ring. Cheers
How the heck is your channel not at least 10x more popular than it is? Such great content. :) Regarding these two games, any serious gamer should own both of them... especially if you love both LOTR and SW. Amazing games!
Eh, I'm pretty bad at self-promotion, so that's probably part of it. Thanks for watching!
Excellent work, Shea!
Thanks Monique!
I have both games and i have only played Rebellion 5 or so times. I havent played WOTR because its too complex to learn. But I am going to now watch ur learn to play video and take a shot at it. This was an awesome comparison!
Hey, no problem! Glad I could help.
It’s really not that bad to learn. I learned it 100% from TH-cam videos and solo play. Great resource for learning games, TH-cam.
I've played War of the Ring a couple of times and I've watched a couple of playthroughs of Star Wars Rebellion and if you want a board game that encapsulates the feel of the actual trilogy it's based on, War of the Ring does it way better imo.
If you're looking for a game that gives you the feel of the fellowship going on a quest to destroy the ring until all the surviving members go on their own side quest to join the not less important war effort, War of the Ring will guarantee you this experience.
If you're looking for a game where Luke, Han and Leia lead the Rebellion on a quest to liberate the galaxy from the Empire, Star Wars Rebellion does not nececarelly guarantee you this experience. Instead you're guaranteed a
2.04 Star wars... Its all about the Base no rebel
I think the goals actually lean towards Star Wars for thematic purposes.
The Rebellion's goal IS to not lose until they can cut off the head. That's pretty much been what they've been doing since their inception is to survive, damage the Empire where possible, and try to find a way to crumble the Empire. There was absolutely no hope of the Rebellion ever winning a conventional war with the Galactic Empire. I think it also makes the planning and head games matter all the more. You have to use mind-games in order to play well. Failing strategies is a matter of being out-played in the mindgame department for the most part, sometimes luck can get you to triumph or fail where you had the advantage but for the most part it is very focused on strategy. It emphasizes the cat and mouse reality of the game and of the conflict. The Empire will always win if given an enemy to concentrate all its resources and forces on.
I think the games are quite comparable. One is not necessarily better than the other, it is appealing to different people and designed for different stories.
There is one point in the favor of Rebellion, which is if you have 4 people playing Rebellion handles it a lot better.
Awesome Nightcrawler sketches behind you Shay! Did you draw them yourself?
I wish. No, I got the cute one at Comic-Con a couple years ago, and the paint splatter one was a gift.
Great video! I love both games, but I’m biased towards War of the Ring because it’s my favorite fantasy series with Star Wars being a close second.
Do you think you’ll get around to reviewing the expansions for War of the Ring at all?
I plan on doing those this year. Hopefully in the next three months.
LotR is the better of the two (always imo). My take is that games designed for two are better. At 2 vs 2, those two are a lot better: 1754: Conquest - The French and Indian War,
1775: Rebellion. For 4 or 5, Blood Rage Lite is the king (it's free on BGG's file section of Blood Rage).
I've been scouring the internet for this video
All about that base. Nice.
Great video, I like and own both. I am lucky enough to own the collector edition of war of the ring. I would say the rebellion expansion win versus war of the ring two expansions as it improves the game without adding complexity.
I haven't tried the WotR expansions yet, but they do look a little complex. I'd say that Rebellion needed to fix some issues with their expansion, so it replaced some stuff instead of adding, thus keeping the overall complexity low. WotR on the other hand mostly just wanted to add new stuff, which is fine, but does make it more complicated.
I would say that if you like both IPs, you should probably get both the games. You won't be disappointed.
I love the story element and combat in WOTR, and I love the hidden movement/trying to bluff where your base planet is in Star Wars. Both of these games are my Rank 1 and 2 in terms of Most favorite board games of all times.
Just one note of caution before you buy- These games are long and not an easy teach. You will need a player who is as dedicated and involved as you are to table these often. Otherwise there is a big chance it might just end up lying on your shelf. The setup time for both is also quite long [can even take more than 30 mins initially], and expect to set aside at least 5-6 hours [I usually keep the entire day free], when you are tabling them, for one game.
WOTR is a 10/10 game for me. Star Wars Rebellion is a close 9.5/10. But that is mostly because I am a bigger LOTR fan as compared to Star Wars.
NIGHTCRAWLER! Ahem, sorry, what was the video about? Ha, kidding. Thanks for the comparison vid.
Nightcrawler is the best!
War of the Ring takes a long time to explain all of the interlocking systems. The Fellowship affects Companions and Politics, Companions affect Politics and War, Politics affects War, War affects the Fellowship, Companions, and Politics.
But once you're playing the game, and making decisions, 90% of the game is looking at your 4-9 action dice, and deciding what you want to do. Even the Free Peoples player looking at a Character die only has 6 or so things they can do with the die.
The decision space is pretty small, and it's well organized into nested structures.
Which die do I want to use? My choices are *at most* Character, Army, Muster, Event, and Pass. Free People's also gets Will of the West, so Wild / Special.
Which action do I want to take?
Then for things like Character / Army dice moving armies, or Character dice separating companions, you have to pick which one.
I kind of think it is crazy comparing them. They are both phenomenal. The only caveat I would put in is that I think the Rise of the Empire expansion for Rebellion is what puts the games essentially on par. In other words War of the Ring is better then base game Rebellion but I can't decide which one l like more if we are including the Rebellion with the expansion. Maybe I eventually will have a more definite opinion once I play them both about 20 more times. No doubt everyone else would as well. The games are expensive but you should get them both - which one you get first should probably be decided by which lore excites you most.
I'm much prefer Star Wars Rebellion! Much more beautiful and more strategic! Much much more SWRebellion!
I find rebellion is easier to understand
LOL..I'm still undecided which of the two?? Cuz I like both Star Wars & LOTR Movies but.. if it's to t-shirts I own n wear... it's Star Wars.. hmm. Will need to watch more of ur videos 🎲😉
They're both mainly 2 players games so if you're not sure maybe consider asking your gaming partner which one they prefer?
Buy Rebellion, definitely.
Haha, well I guess I can't argue with that.
Ultimately, pick the world you prefer and you'll be golden. You can't make a wrong choice :)
Personally, I think it will come down to which "lore" you love the most. If you don't have a love for these IP's (not just casual) you will probably hate these games! Both require significant time to learn and master. That said, if you love the lore of one or both, these games offer an immersive experience that is just amazing!
I LOVE both IP's and give the edge to WotR. The Anniversary Edition is simply breathtaking. Spring for some custom add-ons (glass tokens, laser printed mountain ranges with Mt Doom & cities and you will literally be playing inside the books. Folks will awe at it just being set up on the table (and taking up the entire table at that).
Which one is best will constantly change depending on you mood at the time. Both of these games have locked all others out of contention for best 2 player game ever made for years.
War of the Ring(WotR) > Star Wars Rebellion(SWR). SWR NEEDS the the Rise of the Empire(RotE) expansion to have variety. Without RotE, the game is the same pretty much every single time. With WotR, you don't need the expansions, it is a new game every time
i own both and love both. I feel like I feel like their IPs pretty accurately reflect the feel of the game. That is to say, Rebellion is more fun and lighthearted and WotR is more serious, thoughtful, and grand. Both are great games, but I think personally I would rather play WotR
I feel like that shows how great both games are because the Star Wars movies are also more fun and lighthearted than lotr
@@harperrush6196 Agreed 100%
I just bought them both over the last year. Yet, I have zero people to play with.
That is the eternal dilemma. You could always try finding someone to play with online. I don't know about SWR but I'm pretty sure WotR has a pretty active fan discord server. Best of luck!
There's a Dune one now.
I saw. Time will tell if it can take stand up beside these two. Fingers crossed though, because it looks pretty interesting.
I am thinking to get war of the rings , but after you said that rebellion (with expansion)have better combat mechanics "hands down" i will skip it... Why , because after playing more than 30 games of star wars Rebellion i can easily state that it has one of the most boring , clunky mechanics in board gaming... Is the combat mechanic of War of the rings that bad ?
Hey, can you explain this a bit more, please? I am considering to buy SW Rebellion or War of the Rings, but you sound a bit disappointed. Thanks in advance!
And I am also interested if the WotR mechanics are still state of the art in 2023? Lately, I am coming mainly from Eclipse Second Dawn of the Galaxy and Dune Imperium.
@@d4ydream I am only knowledgeable in Star Wars Rebellion, this is the base game's. Unlike many believe, the combat is not complex, it's just slow and clunky. First off, ground and space battles happen simultaneously (apparently the attackers get enough time to land troops before engaging with the defender's fleet, if there is any). Each round is alternating between space and ground battles. For sake of simplicity, let's suppose it's just a fleet skirmich with no ground battle. Depending on each faction generals you put a set of cards, those cards, in the base game, allow you to either assign additional damage or subtract damage. For each phase, starting by the attacker, dice are thrown : results being, hit, critical hit, and command. Hit, allows you to assign damage depending on the nature of the attack : either black for light units (Starfighters in space battles), or red for capital ships (Corvettes, cruisers or star destroyers). Critical hits, allows you to assign damage regardless of dice color (an X-wing can damage a star destroyer, or a Mon-Calamari turbolaser would be able to hit a tie fighter for example). Command, allows you to draw cards or play some cards that require it. By playing cards, you can boost up additional damage. The damage is then assigned to desired units. To take into consideration, if a unit is "destroyed" it's not effectively destroyed until the end of the round. Then it's the defender's turn, it plays similarly. Except, they can play cards to deny damage, if they have them. And if your units are damaged by the end of the defender's phase you can play cards to deny damage to your units. The end of the first round is resolved then by both players taking out their respective destroyed units (if they have any). And then, to the next round, until either one side gets destroyed or retreats.
At the start of each round, a player can announce whether they'd like to retreat or not, it happens at the end of the round.
Now, the problems :
1) due to how retreat works (if it is possible), you have to alternate between space and ground battles for each round. Two different fronts, alternatively.
2) due to dice rolls, and some cards, there may be a few rounds where absolutely no damage would be dealt. Dragging the battle further.
3) you can roll maximum of 10 dice : 5 black dice for light damage, 5 red dice for big damage, no matter how many units are present in the battle. The large battles tend to consequently drag.
The expansion makes the cards less annoying, also more diverse as some units become more effective against others, the units block damage by rolling a new green dice, and the commander allows to reroll damage dice. Which practically addresses one of the three previous criticisms. Also, adds slightly more depth to battles.
@@AAhmou Thanks a lot, this was an extensive and very helpful answer! Would give you several thumbs up if I could! I understand now why the other guy was a bit disappointed about the combat mechanics, but War of the Ring is also more or the less rolling dice if you break it down.
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