Ku forgot to mention that in the Isiah Stewart trade not only did the Pistons give up a future 1st rd pick, they also took on the dead $12M contract of Trevor Ariza, and helped facilitate a Christian Wood sign and trade to the Rockets.
On Jaden Ivey. How was he going to develop if he was virtually stifled the entire season? Even before the season began the rumor was he wouldn't start and he didn't. Seems like he was benched then starting then benched again. Played shorter minutes then longer minutes then back to lesser minutes. Felt like he was called out at press conferences for mistakes more than others and not given much credit when he was playing well. The whole team was subject to rotations that were rarely staggered to make way for all bench lineups. This happened not only during the 28 game losing streak but also the mini 7 games or so losing streak and lasted throughout the entire season.
@@scottwickett1273 @scottwickett1273 Absolutely true that. Jaden wasn't/isn't good. However, if you were a player on this team and went through all he experienced "chances" are you're not, or wouldn't be, very good either.
Agreed but I think what's even MORE of the problem is that Ivey is a PG!!! Cade is a SG!!! Why am I the ONLY person who can see this??? I have been saying it for 2 years...Let offense run through IVEY... allow CADE focus more on scoring and defending... because Ivey can't guard me🤣🤣🤣
@@cuprimordial1273before the draft Cafe was versatile. Then he shrank because his original height wasn't as tall. Plus I think Cade has made it known that he is the ball dominant PG. I said on draft day Cade is best suited to be a point WING. Cade needs a PG. But if Cade says I'm the PG coach is in a tough position. If Cade really wanted to share on ball with Ivey why not say something to the coach? Ivey could have been a big minute backup.
Current watching Jaden Hardy get big minutes in the WCF. He's from Detroit. We had the opportunity to take him in the 2nd round. He went the pick after the pistons picked effing Gabriele Procida
SBey didn’t develop? Bey had two 50 points games. They didn’t trade Bey because he didn’t develop. This garbage started before Weaver. Remember when they traded Bullock for Syv who couldn’t make a shot to save his life? What about Drummond? What did they get for Drummond, Blake and Reggie? This team was headed in the right direction during Cade rookie season all they had to do was go out and find a two guard. Instead they traded Grant. Replaced him with Duren who couldn’t shoot. This shyt started way before Weaver
How can you say it started before Weaver when Weaver was in charge at the time they traded Grant and otherwise blew up the team they had Cade's rookie year? Weaver is a war criminal, a humiliated moron, and the very worst GM in NBA history.
Cant forget the swing and misses of Hami Diallo, Thon Maker, and Dennis Smitj Jr. Also, im never gonna forgive how the FO treated Monte Morris this year. Its rare to have talented vets that actually want to play for you and we shipped him off for bums and a 2nd
I've wondered why we haven't heard rumors about Morris asking for the trade. It was obviously a decision to trade unless he asked out. Considering how much he wanted to play for the Pistons how bad would it need to be for Morris to ask out.
i’m sorry but it makes my blood boil when people say troy weaver acquired a lot of talent for the pistons when his first draft was killian hayes, isaiah stewart, and saddiq bey.
For where they were picked, Stewart and Bey have been pretty good. When you're picking in that range just getting to a second contract makes you a good pick. Killian obviously didn't work out. But I think the biggest failing is that he did NOT acquire enough talent. The fact he churned through so many players in four years and didn't unearth a single rotation player is completely unacceptable for a guy whose strength is supposed to be scouting. No Alex Caruso or Austin Reaves or Max Strus or Duncan Robinson or Isaiah Joe or Lu Dort, etc. I think the Fontecchio trade will ultimately be his best move but where was that the previous four years?
Yes, he sucked out loud the whole time, he is a garbage moron. The core of this team is one (1) player, who any of us could have picked once lucking into the #1 pick. He has achieved nothing but personal embarrassment.
@@michaelahurt Jeremy Grant and Trey Lyles were both nice finds. Trading Lyles set in motion a series of troubling events. The Bagley extension created a bad contract and made the Wiseman trade double dumb. With three centers each getting about 10 million how could he sign another. Yet we need a backup big like Trey Lyles. I've heard enough rumors about Grant to believe trading him wasn't a Weaver decision. It's hard to say Weaver did and what others did. Hopefully Langdon does a better job of manipulating the owners.
@@pheralanpathfinder4897 Lyles is fair if we'd kept him but Troy immediately traded him after 50 games. If anything that's a demerit considering what came next. Grant got a 3 year $60m contract so I'm not sure that's the same thing. But he _was_ correct about Grant and ultimately that pick turned into Duren which is a win. The Bagley trade was ok at the time because it was obvious Cade needed a lob partner. If you knew you were getting Duren, obviously you don't make that trade. But no one could have known that. Even the Wiseman trade was fine. If they didn't think Bey was a culture fit then a flier on Wiseman in return is honestly good work. (You basically traded the 19th pick for the second.) The problem was that not only did he not immediately trade Bagley once he got Wiseman, but he actually re-signed Bagley -- that's really the cardinal sin -- and topped it off with some idiotic comments trying to justify having four centers. My only issue with the Wiseman thing was how it would affect Duren's development but having two centers isn't necessarily stupid (see Dallas) The other error -- besides signing Bagley -- was not bringing in a veteran big to work with Duren and Wiseman. But to your point, Troy's inability to win the office politics might have been his biggest shortcoming. Especially since it meant the dumpster fire that is Monty Williams coaching
The down fall started when Troy Weaver passed up on Tyrese Haliburton for Killian Hayes, and missing out Maxey when he had 3 opportunities to draft him. We could’ve had a Maxey and Haliburton backcourt possibly. 🤦🏾♂️
I'll give you Haliburton but Maxey is pure hindsight. He was a 6'2" SG who shot 29% on threes. And honestly it's highly unlikely he would have developed like this if he didn't get to play off Embiid and had been asked to create early on. Even now he's not very good without Embiid.
Blame these podcaster for that, they hyped Killian Hayes up, and was telling fans we need him, etc, and spreading it throughout social media. Fact are Hayes should never had been even selected in top 10, he only was averaging 3-4.4ppg, in one of the weakest professional sport leagues.
Dennis Smith Jr. Kevin Knox. Corey Joseph. What about the Joe Harris trade that ate $20 million to help Brooklyn sign Cam Johnson when us fans wanted Cam Johnson.
James Wiseman, Marvin Bagley, Josh Jackson, Jahlil Okafor… the list goes on. All of the unrestricted free agents & g league players the last 3 weeks of the season for the past 4 years. The Pistons were not trying to build an nba roster.
Well, that’s the nature of this business. There’s administrators out there that had playoffs seasons and still got the axe. It’s my opinion that singular misses have long-term ramifications. Whenever you miss on players like Mitchell, Haliburton, and Booker during a rebuild, it sets a team back possibly for a decade. In cases where you have a successful team, drafting a guy like Darko results in winning one championship versus multiple ones and potentially a dynasty.
Other issues you didn’t touch on Ku was ALL the centers we picked up (Starting with DeAndre Jordan) that NEVER played for us that we PAYED to play for other teams AND trading Bruce Brown to Brooklyn for a player who didn’t even MAKE OUR TEAM! Troy is one of the WORST decision makers EVER!!! Fired him ASAP!!!!!
Bruce Brown said he was traded because he visited his family during the lockdown when no game were being played. Sounded like a first time boss announcing they are in charge rather than a basketball decision.
Good take Ku. You are 100 percent correct. I never thought about it that way until u broke it down. It’s pretty bad bro. But did Troy actually make all those decisions? If so, you’re absolutely correct. And leave Jaden alone bro 😂
There’s some decisions that Troy himself didn’t make or wasn’t his first choice, but fans don’t know which ones were his decision and which ones weren’t-sure that’ll be talked about soon.
No one liked the Grant trade. The Durrn trade was hoped to make up for the low return. Others have reported that Weaver didn't want to trade Grant but was overruled. Bojan was the band aid trade to try to fix things but Grant was the better player.
Let's see what he does with healthy good players and some good veterans. Weaver had 4 years...Monte a moment in time....I've been a piston fan for 60 years.....let Monte coach!
There were trade back rumors. Before the Pistons won the first pick Weaver was widely reported to like Jalen Green. What else would we have received in a trade back? Cade vs Mobley + Markkaanan would be an interesting debate.
What’s crazy is Keegan Murray and Jalen Williams were one pick before Ivey and Duren in the 22 draft. Imagine how different the team could’ve been if they fell to us
@@Jamar-lg9ob I would bet a lot of money that Ivey never becomes as good as Jalen Williams already is. As for Duren, I personally just think he is total garbage because no-defense centers are automatically garbage players who make you lose; we all hope that changes (or that he gets traded, I guess).
Ku Khahil I agree with you in some of what you’re saying.. I think weaver did have some good points he fixed our books and yes he drafted best player but no development no identity but the owner is a joke too and I think he handcuff weaver too I do think the new guy has to get a set mind set between weaver himself and our coach
A lot of good points. The general lack of development since 2020 is something. I do think it says a ton about Cade to take the jump he did in this environment. I also think Duren developed on offense like I predicted. These kids need legit vets. Everyone needs defined roles. Roles that play into their respective strengths instead of constantly playing guys out of position.
What they NEED is a TRUE VETERAN PG...Chris Paul, Mike Conley, Russell Westbrook etc...someone that Cade would be willing to allow them to run the offense to ease some of his burden..also we NEED a scoring wing like Brandon Ingram
How much of the development happened under Casey? Cade improved dramatically during his rookie year. This season he was about the same as his post all star break rookie numbers. Duren looked best the first couple weeks after the injury he struggled. Ivey truly shined under Casey. Ausar was better earlier in the season Maybe fans shouldn't have been pushing to fire Casey?
Reasons Weaver failed: 1- Tellum picking Hayes and his own bad decisions in 2020 along with Hayes being seriously injured. 2- Gores signing the wrong coach at the wrong time for these players 3- Cade's major injury and not showing anything special until the end of his 3rd year. 4 - The coach he didn't hire not doing his job. 5- Gores, Tellem, Weaver and Williams being on different pages of four different books in four different languages.
While all those may be true, Troy still displayed his incompetence with asset management which is all on him. He is being scapegoated for a lot that was not in his control, but he was far from good at what he did control. He has earned his exit.
Your first point isn’t valid because the pistons didn’t have cap space to take on contracts when Weaver first got here. Your second point isn’t valid because Bey and Steward did develop into solid players. Ivy development was stunted during his second season because of the coach Gore’s wanted. If you’re arguing Weavers vision didn’t work without mentioning the lack of control he had with decision making I believe you’re missing an important point.
The Pistons not only had immediate cap space (estimated 30.2 million at the start of 2020 FA) they had long term cap space. If they didn’t have any space, they could not have signed Jerami Grant and Mason Plumlee.
Strong disagree on Jeremi Grant. It’s seldom I disagree strongly with you. We still had Blake Griffin at that point and still had hope he was going to return to form. We were not in a full rebuild. Furthermore he greatly outplayed his contract. Signing him was not a mistake. Not moving off of him sooner was a mistake.
He got traded halfway through a three year contract. How much sooner could they have traded him? Blake was washed. There wasn't hope there was delusion. But Ku's logic makes no sense. He wanted to use the cap space to get picks but that's exactly what happened anyway. Functionally it's the same thing. To me the mistake was trading him away because what this team really needs is a guy like Jerami Grant.
You say the exact same things about Cade that you said about Ivey with caveat of Cade being more injury prone. Situation matters for young players being yanked in and out isn't conducive to consistent play. Ivey hasn't been given a fair shape and is being judged unfairly by youtubers and fans.
Except Ivey and Duren participated in 2 full seasons not 1 1/2. But, anytime you win a total of 14 games there needs to be action. But, it has to be sensible. I saw more favorable confidence in Killian than I did with Ivey. That in itself is problematic because Ivey shows more promise than Hayes ever did. BUT, that’s what a mere 14 wins does.
Counterpoint: nobody is any good except Cade, this team still has a core of one (1) player after being permitted to lose on purpose for THREE AND A HALF seasons!
Agree with you. Too much shuffling going on with the roster over the past few years has led to this as opposed to letting the team build chemistry together.
@@amplescramblelogic2049 No, it's not that: the problem is just that the roster is really shitty because it was built by the very worst GM who has ever lived.
It's hinted at here again yet I have never read or seen confirmation of the haul of draft picks that Weaver might have acquired for Grant, Bogdanovic, or Plumlee (lol). Personally I am skeptical that any of those guys would have returned anything of value, and I think Pistons fans tend to over-value the players on the team. Maybe after he's fired James Edwards or others on the inside will be able to tell us what Weaver could have received but until that day it's hard to assess his regime.
Bojan would have brought a couple seconds. Maybe one first at his peak. But we would have taken back a bad contract and competed for the consecutive loss record without him. Weaver wanted to keep Grant, but was overruled. Supposedly he could have done a deadline deal for a protected pick that was iffy to end up transferring. However that pick would have been used to get Duren without eating the Kemba, Burks, and Noel contracts. Burks helped a little. Hard to guess what we could have had with the extra cap. Maybe two Burks level players instead of one?
I could have done this episode in 5 seconds, the reason for Troy Weaver’s failure with the Pistons is the same reason Trajan Langdon is gonna fail, Arn Tellem & Ed Stefanski, done! end of conversation🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️
I would actually say the players showed better development under Casey, and the development really fell off a cliff with Monty. Ivy showed improvement, Bay actually did Get bettering ball handling and attacking the basket, Diolo got better. Durren didn't regress and did actually show progress. Monty needs to go just as much as Troy. Casey had an objectively worse roster but got more wins.
Remember Jaden played a whole year without Cade.....we saw some potential....when he played with Cade...no defense...not finishing at the rim....throwing bad passes...just Not inconsistent! MONTE was trying to find some rythmn...none to be found buried with inuries
And this is what makes the NBA GM the most dangerous job in America. Not only are their jobs on the hook, but the organization and fans will be stuck in purgatory. 😂😂
@@scottwickett1273 you really want me to list the writers and content creators like I'm making this up? I'm good. Just ignore what I said and the other comments that are similar to mine.
You know I’m one of those people who have pointed this out? I’m aware of certain moves that weren’t Troy’s main choice, but I’m aware of quite a few that were and still blew up in his face. There’s blood on everyone’s hands
No the second reason wasn't the development of the player per say. It was Gores stepping in an overriding Weaver on his choice of coach. The coach is responsible for the development of the players and we can all agree Monty's coaching was atrocious. He was the complete wrong move. Ku you are overlooking the environment. For young to develop the environment must be right. When you override your GM thats sets a horrid precedence and sets a bad tone. We can clearly see the heads of the organization were not on one accord. When you have to sit down with your coach an as why are you not playing one of our top young talents who excelled at the end of his rookie season for a player who clearly wasn't an NBA talent. Thats a huge problem. So the second biggest issue was the top of the organiztion not setting up a direction, vision and a good environment for the team to succeed and maybe that should be the first reason for Weaver's failure.
Let's quit blaming Monte...at first you liked it ..when he played Killian...then you complained because he didn't play the former Perdue guard....Monte was hard on him because he realized he was to inconsistent....to many errors...not consistent scorer etc....Monte had very little to work with
I’m not here to say Troy shouldn’t be fired. His poor asset management has more than earned his dismissal. But the last two segments are more about coaching and ownership than about Troy. Weaver never had his own coach, and I assume with that coaching and training staff, in place. The fact that we never developed any players lies with the coaching staff. Hell, our longest tenured coach is our shooting coach of 8 years and we’ve seen far more guys shot fall apart or not develop than guys find a shot. And injuries happen, but they shouldn’t happen as often as they do with the Pistons. We don’t have guys strong enough or in good enough condition to stave off injuries and then we rush them back to get reinjured. Our coaches and trainers just stink. And Troy envisioned a two ball handling guard offense with slashers and a shooter around them like, let’s just say not as good at this point, but both teams that will be in the final. Not being able to have your own coaching staff and having one instilled that works directly against that clearly is a problem. As I said, Weaver has clearly earned his dismissal, but he is being scapegoated for many things that were beyond his control as well and I fear we may keep guys who should all be out the door with Troy.
If your GM would rather have James Wiseman than five second-round picks, nothing else can ever matter because you are hopelessly screwed regardless of who the coach is.
@@scottwickett1273 Did I not say that Troy earned his firing for his horrific asset management? You do realize the opposite of your statement is also true: It doesn’t matter who your GM is if you training staff can’t develop players or keep them healthy enough to be on the court and your coach plays 90% of the players to their weaknesses.
Scoot Henderson was the 3rd pick and didn’t make 1st or 2nd team either does that make him a bust? No it doesn’t stop writing off players 1 year into their career and btw ausar was averaging a double double with 2 steals and 2 blocks per game before he got benched.
@@ZuwoopWhat you mean? This host along with many others in this fanbase have been writing off Duren religiously and if I recall he actually made the all-rookie team. To not even mention a guy who had a historically awful offensive year in an offensive league as a reason is just bias, nothing more and i will call it out just like i did for the killian cult. This is starting to remind me of the killian love for his D and yet couldnt shoot a ball in the ocean…not there yet but its getting there.
No team "builds" an identity. That's like trying to engineer a child's personality. But the best way to influence a team's identity is the coach. And it's always worth noting that Cade, Ivey, Ausar and Duren were fine together with Fontecchio. Thats the thing about "fit" is it's * FIVE* players. Dallas didn't "fit" until they replaced Grant Williams with PJ Washington. Jokic-Murray-MPJ didn't "fit" defensively until they got KCP and AG. Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown still don't "fit" but the surrounding players have changed around them to make it work You don't draft 19 year olds based on what they are right now but what they might look like at 25 and you figure out the fit part once they are closer to finished products. In the interim you add talent (best player available) and fill needs (a second creator, a lob threat and a perimeter defender) Also while the wing depth was horrendous and inexcusable, the idea was for Monte, Bogey and Burks to provide the spacing but the first two were injured and Burks got hurt 4 games in (then didn't make a shot for two months) and Monty played Killian who was supposed to get cut. (And played him with Ausar and Stewart which never should have happened.) You can't put the injuries and coaching on Troy though.
@@scottwickett1273 He's definitely not. He just has terrible luck and missed on a bunch of 50/50 bets It's not like he drafted Darko Milicic over three HOFers or traded Tobias Harris for Blake Griffin or signed disastrous FA like Ben Gordon, Charlie Villanueva or Josh Smith. Even his greatest sin of holding onto Bogey too long pales in comparison to Amir Johnson, Tayshaun Prince and Andre Drummond being kept until they actually had negative trade value. I'm not sure he's even a worse GM than Joe Dumars. Let alone Stan Van Gundy.
@@michaelahurt Ok I can tell you are stupid because you are arguing that a championship-winning GM is as bad as the most incompetent clown in the history of the profession. I thought Weaver was the world's stupidest man, right up until I encountered you!
#1 Reason Weaver failed was not trading that #1 Overall pick in 2021. He opted to select an Overrated and Overhyped Ca e Cunningham. Ca e was a want, he was never a need or fit with the Detroit Pistons. Someone decided to select Ca e in hopes he could help to carry a team. He cannot. Ca e is the type of Player that needs to be carried, hence all the demands to get HELP for CA E!! This is not the Detroit Ca e's, it's the Detroit Pistons! How about we get the Pistons some HELP! You can't build a team around Ca e Cunningham he isn't the answer. He is too set in his selfish, lazy and entitled ways. That was Weaver and the Front Office biggest mistake Point Blank ○ PERIOD ● Trade Ca e and make things right.
I agree with 100% Ku… but the MAIN reason for me is terrible coaching staff decision - we had a complete loser on Casey for years, when we had a chance to get a young coach, ready to focus 100% on the mental, technical and physical development of our young core, the Pistons decided to hire the WORST option possible: a loser, a guy who NEVER WANTED to be here, for a baaaaag of money… this is absolutely ridiculous. Add to the omission of Troy Weaver accepting Gores decision with no questioning. An absolute mess.
Honestly I feel like the league just screwed us with giving us 5 twice out of three years and quite as kept the year we got the # 1 pick that draft class really isn’t looking that great. The Paolo draft really set us back I like Ivey but he seems immature as a player and I believe that’s why Hayes started over him if we could have drafted Chet Paolo or Jabari I think we would be in a better position
And yet they were the youngest and worst team in the NBA. The lottery format needs to go. The “One-and-Done” rule necessitates a format change regarding the draft. And this year’s draft further justifies this theory. Over 90% of these draftees need more time in college or developmental play before entering the NBA. In this era, there are more possible draft mishaps than in previous times.
@@mbwell There are more guys who slip through the cracks but I wouldn't call those mishaps. There's just more variance. But the bust rate for top picks is no different.
@@mbwell That is what the G League is for, most of these coaching staff do not know how to develop players. It has nothing to do about them needing to stay in college longer. In the NBA it only a few coaching staff that actually develop players, and the pistons do not have one of those coaching staff and trainer staff. Pistons need to look into signing it own training/ developmental coaching staff recruit them from colleges if they have too. Because if you look at what happening with pistons the last player that actually develop here good was Tayshaun prince. We have had bust every since then. Drummond had skills that he came her with, but we never developed him, he didn't develop post game, didnt develop outside shoot, and didn't develop as a leader in the locker room.
@@dbuck2862 Bingo. The lightbulb has finally came on. While comparing Prince to Drummond, you’ve clearly identified the outcome of a 4 year player versus a “One-and-Done”. Tayshaun completed 4 years of college, whereas Andre completed one. Not everyone is Wemby, Kobe, and LeBron. Grinding out 4-years is the proven formula for most players on and off the court. This is inductive of Prince’s career role today as an executive in the NBA. As far as the G league component, I waiver in giving much value. The difference is the NCAA is more competitive oriented where players participate in hostile environments. The G league is more developmental oriented and less competitive. It’s void of reaching the psyche of the players and identifying how they will respond in pressured pack and meaningful games.
@@dbuck2862 Drummond was only available at 9 because there were concerns about his work ethic. Do you think it's a coincidence he stopped improving and his defense fell off once he got his money? He also had zero touch -- as evidenced by his FT shooting -- which is a huge reason why his post game never developed. He certainly tried, but it was never going to happen. 90% of player development is just playing and getting older which is why players are better after four years of college..And certainly we are able to better predict 22 year olds than 19 year olds What's difficult in the NBA is if you're bad, players tend to develop bad habits and/or lose confidence. And if you're good, they don't get to play. But even now there aren't many coaches who are actually good at player development. And most of it is skills training now. The best development is just putting players in position to succeed so they build confidence.
The #1 reason they failed so miserably this season was Monty. He never stuck with a consistent lineup to build chemistry. The first half the season he didn’t even play Ivey so how’s he supposed to improve. I’ve never seen a more disengaged coach. He sits on the sideline like he’s comatose with no energy or enthusiasm whatsoever, which you desperately need with a very young and impressionable team.
Hiring Monty killed this teams progress. He want to play the exact same way every game no matter the opponent or matchups, can't make adjustments, no gameplan or preparation, no studying, no growth in the player's game. Thinking you can just have Cade run pick, and roll or go one on one then surround him with four 3 point chuckers is asanine.
Trade Duran, the 5th pick, and a future 1st for Ingram and the Pelicans 21st pick and trade Ivey, Beef Stew, and the 21st pick from New Orleans for Jeremy Grant, then sign Nic Claxton and Malik Monk in free agency along with re-signing our very own Simone Fontecchio the Italian Stallion. Along with Ausar, Sasser, and a couple more contributors on your second unit this team suddenly looks like a serious Eastern Conference playoff contender with a chance to play in the Conference Finals. Wtbs we'll be some dawgs offensively and defensively.
@@jhajdu2 I would push back on "can't" here: Cade DIDN'T play defense this season, that's true, but he proved as a rookie that he CAN do it because he actively did do it, with the notable difference being he had a lesser offensive burden during his rookie year (because Jerami and Saddiq).
@@scottwickett1273 Maybe because youre stupid. The point is the fans are the ones crying and whining, not Weaver. The fans are trying to now question the moves they supported. SO yes the fans desires do matter, when they are trying to distance themselves from the move because they didnt pan out. But yet was praising Weaver at the time and making him out to be a genius. Its obvious you were one of those fans Scott.
@@ronaldmcdonald1977 No, you are slandering me, that is completely false: Weaver is the worst GM in the history of the sport, and I have been saying that for a long time now!
Ku forgot to mention that in the Isiah Stewart trade not only did the Pistons give up a future 1st rd pick, they also took on the dead $12M contract of Trevor Ariza, and helped facilitate a Christian Wood sign and trade to the Rockets.
Also Troy helped the Nets resign Cam Johnson when they didn’t have enough cap space to do so😆
Also helped facilitate Jalen Bronson trade/signing by acquiring contracts of Burks and I forgot who the other guy was....🤔
On Jaden Ivey. How was he going to develop if he was virtually stifled the entire season? Even before the season began the rumor was he wouldn't start and he didn't. Seems like he was benched then starting then benched again. Played shorter minutes then longer minutes then back to lesser minutes. Felt like he was called out at press conferences for mistakes more than others and not given much credit when he was playing well.
The whole team was subject to rotations that were rarely staggered to make way for all bench lineups. This happened not only during the 28 game losing streak but also the mini 7 games or so losing streak and lasted throughout the entire season.
@@teezzz9645 I still don't know why you think that. If Ku is saying that Ivey currently isn't good, that's just true.
@@scottwickett1273 @scottwickett1273 Absolutely true that. Jaden wasn't/isn't good. However, if you were a player on this team and went through all he experienced "chances" are you're not, or wouldn't be, very good either.
Agreed but I think what's even MORE of the problem is that Ivey is a PG!!! Cade is a SG!!! Why am I the ONLY person who can see this??? I have been saying it for 2 years...Let offense run through IVEY... allow CADE focus more on scoring and defending... because Ivey can't guard me🤣🤣🤣
@@cuprimordial1273before the draft Cafe was versatile. Then he shrank because his original height wasn't as tall. Plus I think Cade has made it known that he is the ball dominant PG.
I said on draft day Cade is best suited to be a point WING. Cade needs a PG.
But if Cade says I'm the PG coach is in a tough position.
If Cade really wanted to share on ball with Ivey why not say something to the coach?
Ivey could have been a big minute backup.
@@cuprimordial1273 The reason you are "the ONLY person who can see this" is because you are totally fucking wrong.
Just a banger of an episode. Informative & concise autopsy of profound failure. Well done Ku.
Current watching Jaden Hardy get big minutes in the WCF. He's from Detroit. We had the opportunity to take him in the 2nd round. He went the pick after the pistons picked effing Gabriele Procida
Wow!!! Dint know this 1!!!
SBey didn’t develop? Bey had two 50 points games. They didn’t trade Bey because he didn’t develop. This garbage started before Weaver. Remember when they traded Bullock for Syv who couldn’t make a shot to save his life? What about Drummond? What did they get for Drummond, Blake and Reggie? This team was headed in the right direction during Cade rookie season all they had to do was go out and find a two guard. Instead they traded Grant. Replaced him with Duren who couldn’t shoot. This shyt started way before Weaver
Weaver was the worse
How can you say it started before Weaver when Weaver was in charge at the time they traded Grant and otherwise blew up the team they had Cade's rookie year?
Weaver is a war criminal, a humiliated moron, and the very worst GM in NBA history.
Casey was the scapegoat last year. Weaver this year. Monty will take the blame in 2025. Probably gets fired right before all star break.
When you state each mistake it just sounds worse and worse with every one.
I mean, we are talking about the very worst GM in the history of the sport.
Cant forget the swing and misses of Hami Diallo, Thon Maker, and Dennis Smitj Jr.
Also, im never gonna forgive how the FO treated Monte Morris this year. Its rare to have talented vets that actually want to play for you and we shipped him off for bums and a 2nd
to be fair, he was never healthy
@RJScott-mt1jx and we traded him for 2 bums who are never healthy lmao
I've wondered why we haven't heard rumors about Morris asking for the trade. It was obviously a decision to trade unless he asked out.
Considering how much he wanted to play for the Pistons how bad would it need to be for Morris to ask out.
i’m sorry but it makes my blood boil when people say troy weaver acquired a lot of talent for the pistons when his first draft was killian hayes, isaiah stewart, and saddiq bey.
For where they were picked, Stewart and Bey have been pretty good. When you're picking in that range just getting to a second contract makes you a good pick.
Killian obviously didn't work out.
But I think the biggest failing is that he did NOT acquire enough talent. The fact he churned through so many players in four years and didn't unearth a single rotation player is completely unacceptable for a guy whose strength is supposed to be scouting.
No Alex Caruso or Austin Reaves or Max Strus or Duncan Robinson or Isaiah Joe or Lu Dort, etc.
I think the Fontecchio trade will ultimately be his best move but where was that the previous four years?
Yes, he sucked out loud the whole time, he is a garbage moron. The core of this team is one (1) player, who any of us could have picked once lucking into the #1 pick.
He has achieved nothing but personal embarrassment.
@@michaelahurt Jeremy Grant and Trey Lyles were both nice finds. Trading Lyles set in motion a series of troubling events. The Bagley extension created a bad contract and made the Wiseman trade double dumb.
With three centers each getting about 10 million how could he sign another. Yet we need a backup big like Trey Lyles.
I've heard enough rumors about Grant to believe trading him wasn't a Weaver decision.
It's hard to say Weaver did and what others did. Hopefully Langdon does a better job of manipulating the owners.
@@pheralanpathfinder4897 Lyles is fair if we'd kept him but Troy immediately traded him after 50 games. If anything that's a demerit considering what came next.
Grant got a 3 year $60m contract so I'm not sure that's the same thing. But he _was_ correct about Grant and ultimately that pick turned into Duren which is a win.
The Bagley trade was ok at the time because it was obvious Cade needed a lob partner. If you knew you were getting Duren, obviously you don't make that trade. But no one could have known that.
Even the Wiseman trade was fine. If they didn't think Bey was a culture fit then a flier on Wiseman in return is honestly good work. (You basically traded the 19th pick for the second.) The problem was that not only did he not immediately trade Bagley once he got Wiseman, but he actually re-signed Bagley -- that's really the cardinal sin -- and topped it off with some idiotic comments trying to justify having four centers. My only issue with the Wiseman thing was how it would affect Duren's development but having two centers isn't necessarily stupid (see Dallas)
The other error -- besides signing Bagley -- was not bringing in a veteran big to work with Duren and Wiseman.
But to your point, Troy's inability to win the office politics might have been his biggest shortcoming. Especially since it meant the dumpster fire that is Monty Williams coaching
Why shipping out Grant and Bey? Don't understand that.
The down fall started when Troy Weaver passed up on Tyrese Haliburton for Killian Hayes, and missing out Maxey when he had 3 opportunities to draft him. We could’ve had a Maxey and Haliburton backcourt possibly. 🤦🏾♂️
I'll give you Haliburton but Maxey is pure hindsight. He was a 6'2" SG who shot 29% on threes.
And honestly it's highly unlikely he would have developed like this if he didn't get to play off Embiid and had been asked to create early on. Even now he's not very good without Embiid.
Don't make the same mistake as maxey get R Holland
@@BrianKills73holland doesn’t create shots lol
Blame these podcaster for that, they hyped Killian Hayes up, and was telling fans we need him, etc, and spreading it throughout social media. Fact are Hayes should never had been even selected in top 10, he only was averaging 3-4.4ppg, in one of the weakest professional sport leagues.
In this draft I was high on Cole Anthony, even he would be much better choice
Dennis Smith Jr. Kevin Knox. Corey Joseph. What about the Joe Harris trade that ate $20 million to help Brooklyn sign Cam Johnson when us fans wanted Cam Johnson.
It was widely reported the Pistons bid on Johnson but the Nets didn't let him walk for nothing just like I predicted.
@@pheralanpathfinder4897 that doesn’t mean we do them a solid by absorbing Joe Harris’ contract
James Wiseman, Marvin Bagley, Josh Jackson, Jahlil Okafor… the list goes on. All of the unrestricted free agents & g league players the last 3 weeks of the season for the past 4 years. The Pistons were not trying to build an nba roster.
Well, that’s the nature of this business. There’s administrators out there that had playoffs seasons and still got the axe.
It’s my opinion that singular misses have long-term ramifications. Whenever you miss on players like Mitchell, Haliburton, and Booker during a rebuild, it sets a team back possibly for a decade. In cases where you have a successful team, drafting a guy like Darko results in winning one championship versus multiple ones and potentially a dynasty.
Some teams are cursed
Other issues you didn’t touch on Ku was ALL the centers we picked up (Starting with DeAndre Jordan) that NEVER played for us that we PAYED to play for other teams AND trading Bruce Brown to Brooklyn for a player who didn’t even MAKE OUR TEAM! Troy is one of the WORST decision makers EVER!!! Fired him ASAP!!!!!
Yes, he is the very worst GM in the history of the league.
Bruce Brown said he was traded because he visited his family during the lockdown when no game were being played.
Sounded like a first time boss announcing they are in charge rather than a basketball decision.
@@pheralanpathfinder4897 Yes, it was one of many (MANY) terrible decisions by the very worst GM in history.
Good take Ku. You are 100 percent correct. I never thought about it that way until u broke it down. It’s pretty bad bro. But did Troy actually make all those decisions? If so, you’re absolutely correct. And leave Jaden alone bro 😂
There’s some decisions that Troy himself didn’t make or wasn’t his first choice, but fans don’t know which ones were his decision and which ones weren’t-sure that’ll be talked about soon.
I watch a lot piston content but I swear this was one of the channels that praised turning Jermi Grant into Jalen Duren
Very true.
I hated losing jerami.
Nah there’s a difference between trading Grant at his highest value vs getting a good deal after his value dropped.
No one liked the Grant trade. The Durrn trade was hoped to make up for the low return.
Others have reported that Weaver didn't want to trade Grant but was overruled.
Bojan was the band aid trade to try to fix things but Grant was the better player.
Maybe the lack of development is due to the shitty coaching.....
Troy drafting the reason he failed
Where have I heard there was too many chefs in the kitchen?Any fan care to reply to answer what franchise?🎉
Let's see what he does with healthy good players and some good veterans. Weaver had 4 years...Monte a moment in time....I've been a piston fan for 60 years.....let Monte coach!
I also recently heard he almost passed up on Cade for Mobley, cuz of his thing for bigs. That would’ve been a disaster. Smh
Weaver has a fetish for centers he still thinks we’re in the 90s
Mobley better than cade
We just had a 31 wins over 2 seasons the majority of which Cade was unavailable, could it have been a much bigger disaster
There were trade back rumors. Before the Pistons won the first pick Weaver was widely reported to like Jalen Green.
What else would we have received in a trade back?
Cade vs Mobley + Markkaanan would be an interesting debate.
You forgot the Frank Jackson, RJ Hampton, Kevin Knox and Hamidou Diallo failed high pedigree reclamation projects. 😂
All played good until traded
Locked On Pistons, You're fantastic! Let's be friends and have fun!
What’s crazy is Keegan Murray and Jalen Williams were one pick before Ivey and Duren in the 22 draft. Imagine how different the team could’ve been if they fell to us
Ivey and duren still got more upside
@@Jamar-lg9ob Why do you think that?
@@scottwickett1273 younger more athletic work ethic from what I here better coaching both got star potential
@@Jamar-lg9ob I would bet a lot of money that Ivey never becomes as good as Jalen Williams already is.
As for Duren, I personally just think he is total garbage because no-defense centers are automatically garbage players who make you lose; we all hope that changes (or that he gets traded, I guess).
@@scottwickett1273 your opinion not fact what other 19 year old center was starting averaging a double double in NBA
Ku Khahil I agree with you in some of what you’re saying.. I think weaver did have some good points he fixed our books and yes he drafted best player but no development no identity but the owner is a joke too and I think he handcuff weaver too I do think the new guy has to get a set mind set between weaver himself and our coach
Great summary Ku
A lot of good points. The general lack of development since 2020 is something. I do think it says a ton about Cade to take the jump he did in this environment. I also think Duren developed on offense like I predicted. These kids need legit vets. Everyone needs defined roles. Roles that play into their respective strengths instead of constantly playing guys out of position.
What they NEED is a TRUE VETERAN PG...Chris Paul, Mike Conley, Russell Westbrook etc...someone that Cade would be willing to allow them to run the offense to ease some of his burden..also we NEED a scoring wing like Brandon Ingram
How much of the development happened under Casey?
Cade improved dramatically during his rookie year. This season he was about the same as his post all star break rookie numbers.
Duren looked best the first couple weeks after the injury he struggled.
Ivey truly shined under Casey.
Ausar was better earlier in the season
Maybe fans shouldn't have been pushing to fire Casey?
Reasons Weaver failed:
1- Tellum picking Hayes and his own bad decisions in 2020 along with Hayes being seriously injured.
2- Gores signing the wrong coach at the wrong time for these players
3- Cade's major injury and not showing anything special until the end of his 3rd year.
4 - The coach he didn't hire not doing his job.
5- Gores, Tellem, Weaver and Williams being on different pages of four different books in four different languages.
Thank you. Spot on assessment of "organizational" dysfunction - not just Weaver messing up.
While all those may be true, Troy still displayed his incompetence with asset management which is all on him. He is being scapegoated for a lot that was not in his control, but he was far from good at what he did control. He has earned his exit.
I just can’t see them firing weaver. Mainly because it’s a no brainer and we don’t do no brainers.
Your first point isn’t valid because the pistons didn’t have cap space to take on contracts when Weaver first got here. Your second point isn’t valid because Bey and Steward did develop into solid players. Ivy development was stunted during his second season because of the coach Gore’s wanted. If you’re arguing Weavers vision didn’t work without mentioning the lack of control he had with decision making I believe you’re missing an important point.
The Pistons not only had immediate cap space (estimated 30.2 million at the start of 2020 FA) they had long term cap space.
If they didn’t have any space, they could not have signed Jerami Grant and Mason Plumlee.
He traded Saddiq for WORSE THAN nothing, though.
@@teezzz9645 Nah, he's just correct: Ivey sucks because he can't guard you.
I might be wrong abt this but this is a serious takedown of a GM. I hope there was one for past/future GMs that an equally poor job.
I doubt it
Nobody in the past has actually done an equally poor job: Weaver is the worst GM in the history of the sport.
Again-exaggeration & sekective menory
@@jbrandy-un9vv By whom? Certainly not me, neither of your claims is true.
Your claim isn’t true
Strong disagree on Jeremi Grant. It’s seldom I disagree strongly with you. We still had Blake Griffin at that point and still had hope he was going to return to form. We were not in a full rebuild. Furthermore he greatly outplayed his contract. Signing him was not a mistake. Not moving off of him sooner was a mistake.
He got traded halfway through a three year contract. How much sooner could they have traded him?
Blake was washed. There wasn't hope there was delusion.
But Ku's logic makes no sense. He wanted to use the cap space to get picks but that's exactly what happened anyway. Functionally it's the same thing.
To me the mistake was trading him away because what this team really needs is a guy like Jerami Grant.
You say the exact same things about Cade that you said about Ivey with caveat of Cade being more injury prone. Situation matters for young players being yanked in and out isn't conducive to consistent play. Ivey hasn't been given a fair shape and is being judged unfairly by youtubers and fans.
Griffin only played 20 games during Killian's rookie season, he was clearly washed and the team was clearly tanking that year.
@@Truthtella Counterpoint: Ivey is bad, while Cade is good. Hope this helps.
@@scottwickett1273 yes and Jeremi Grant was already signed.
Except Killian wasn't drafted by Troy and Ivey and Duren didn't show 4 years worth of development in one and a half and under a coach Gores picked.
Except Ivey and Duren participated in 2 full seasons not 1 1/2. But, anytime you win a total of 14 games there needs to be action. But, it has to be sensible. I saw more favorable confidence in Killian than I did with Ivey. That in itself is problematic because Ivey shows more promise than Hayes ever did. BUT, that’s what a mere 14 wins does.
Troy did draft Killian
@@Jamar-lg9ob Not according to multiple Piston podcasters.
Killian absolutely was drafted by Weaver unless you can prove otherwise.
@@Coffee-iv4gt They have failed to provide evidence.
Their claims amount to baseless slander of Tellem unless and until they provide evidence.
I think yall moving too fast . We have a very young team that just played the first season together. Niggas gotta be patient fr
It's hard after 4 horrible years
Counterpoint: nobody is any good except Cade, this team still has a core of one (1) player after being permitted to lose on purpose for THREE AND A HALF seasons!
Agree with you. Too much shuffling going on with the roster over the past few years has led to this as opposed to letting the team build chemistry together.
@@amplescramblelogic2049 No, it's not that: the problem is just that the roster is really shitty because it was built by the very worst GM who has ever lived.
Did Detroit Pistons and the Detroit tigers are in the same boat
It's hinted at here again yet I have never read or seen confirmation of the haul of draft picks that Weaver might have acquired for Grant, Bogdanovic, or Plumlee (lol). Personally I am skeptical that any of those guys would have returned anything of value, and I think Pistons fans tend to over-value the players on the team. Maybe after he's fired James Edwards or others on the inside will be able to tell us what Weaver could have received but until that day it's hard to assess his regime.
Bojan would have brought a couple seconds. Maybe one first at his peak. But we would have taken back a bad contract and competed for the consecutive loss record without him.
Weaver wanted to keep Grant, but was overruled. Supposedly he could have done a deadline deal for a protected pick that was iffy to end up transferring. However that pick would have been used to get Duren without eating the Kemba, Burks, and Noel contracts. Burks helped a little. Hard to guess what we could have had with the extra cap. Maybe two Burks level players instead of one?
I could have done this episode in 5 seconds, the reason for Troy Weaver’s failure with the Pistons is the same reason Trajan Langdon is gonna fail, Arn Tellem & Ed Stefanski, done! end of conversation🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️
Naw
You should add Gores to the list.
Fans calling for Casey to be tired also deserve some blame.
I would actually say the players showed better development under Casey, and the development really fell off a cliff with Monty. Ivy showed improvement, Bay actually did Get bettering ball handling and attacking the basket, Diolo got better. Durren didn't regress and did actually show progress. Monty needs to go just as much as Troy. Casey had an objectively worse roster but got more wins.
Spot on Ku amen Troy has been ominous.
Remember Jaden played a whole year without Cade.....we saw some potential....when he played with Cade...no defense...not finishing at the rim....throwing bad passes...just Not inconsistent! MONTE was trying to find some rythmn...none to be found buried with inuries
He's getting ready to leave go bye-bye
I agree with the person said troy downfall started in 2020 when he drafted killian over tyrese hailburton
And this is what makes the NBA GM the most dangerous job in America. Not only are their jobs on the hook, but the organization and fans will be stuck in purgatory. 😂😂
Ku Troy weaver gotta go Free agancy
No roster vision is the main reason. He just wanted athletic players
You think that Monty wanted to get the bag and tried to get fired because he knew the bag was guaranteed??
Possibly 🤔
Good episode Ku!! But i DID dell you all of this was going to happen way back before the season even started
Ku knows something that we don’t yet
Not sure. He's contradicting himself.
Sorry I feel your pain
A lot of other insiders are saying that Troy didn't make all of the decisions you're making him solely accountable for.
He should have or left
Who are these insiders, and what evidence have they presented?
@@scottwickett1273 you really want me to list the writers and content creators like I'm making this up? I'm good. Just ignore what I said and the other comments that are similar to mine.
@@askiani I'm not saying YOU are making this up, I'm saying THEY are making this up, because THEY have failed to prove it in any way.
You know I’m one of those people who have pointed this out?
I’m aware of certain moves that weren’t Troy’s main choice, but I’m aware of quite a few that were and still blew up in his face. There’s blood on everyone’s hands
My friend is a pistons fan … he feels ya have a bright future
Bad trades he built no chemistry
Troy and Monty can go! Casey too..
Not Monty...not just yet...
Brad Holmes side hustle = pistons GM? 🤣
No the second reason wasn't the development of the player per say. It was Gores stepping in an overriding Weaver on his choice of coach. The coach is responsible for the development of the players and we can all agree Monty's coaching was atrocious. He was the complete wrong move. Ku you are overlooking the environment. For young to develop the environment must be right. When you override your GM thats sets a horrid precedence and sets a bad tone. We can clearly see the heads of the organization were not on one accord. When you have to sit down with your coach an as why are you not playing one of our top young talents who excelled at the end of his rookie season for a player who clearly wasn't an NBA talent. Thats a huge problem. So the second biggest issue was the top of the organiztion not setting up a direction, vision and a good environment for the team to succeed and maybe that should be the first reason for Weaver's failure.
That GM deserves to be overridden because he is a moron who made a bunch of horrible mistakes and is the very worst GM in the history of the sport.
Let's quit blaming Monte...at first you liked it ..when he played Killian...then you complained because he didn't play the former Perdue guard....Monte was hard on him because he realized he was to inconsistent....to many errors...not consistent scorer etc....Monte had very little to work with
Sheila Ford Hamp please buy the Pistons and *_Clean House_* like you did for The Lions.
It's different game
I’m not here to say Troy shouldn’t be fired. His poor asset management has more than earned his dismissal. But the last two segments are more about coaching and ownership than about Troy.
Weaver never had his own coach, and I assume with that coaching and training staff, in place. The fact that we never developed any players lies with the coaching staff. Hell, our longest tenured coach is our shooting coach of 8 years and we’ve seen far more guys shot fall apart or not develop than guys find a shot. And injuries happen, but they shouldn’t happen as often as they do with the Pistons. We don’t have guys strong enough or in good enough condition to stave off injuries and then we rush them back to get reinjured. Our coaches and trainers just stink.
And Troy envisioned a two ball handling guard offense with slashers and a shooter around them like, let’s just say not as good at this point, but both teams that will be in the final. Not being able to have your own coaching staff and having one instilled that works directly against that clearly is a problem.
As I said, Weaver has clearly earned his dismissal, but he is being scapegoated for many things that were beyond his control as well and I fear we may keep guys who should all be out the door with Troy.
If your GM would rather have James Wiseman than five second-round picks, nothing else can ever matter because you are hopelessly screwed regardless of who the coach is.
@@scottwickett1273 Did I not say that Troy earned his firing for his horrific asset management? You do realize the opposite of your statement is also true: It doesn’t matter who your GM is if you training staff can’t develop players or keep them healthy enough to be on the court and your coach plays 90% of the players to their weaknesses.
Forgot to mention Ausar who was a top 5 pick, played big minutes and didnt even make either first or second all rookie teams and so far is a bust.
Scoot Henderson was the 3rd pick and didn’t make 1st or 2nd team either does that make him a bust? No it doesn’t stop writing off players 1 year into their career and btw ausar was averaging a double double with 2 steals and 2 blocks per game before he got benched.
Far from bust
It's too soon to call any rookie a bust....even Scoot!
@@ZuwoopWhat you mean? This host along with many others in this fanbase have been writing off Duren religiously and if I recall he actually made the all-rookie team. To not even mention a guy who had a historically awful offensive year in an offensive league as a reason is just bias, nothing more and i will call it out just like i did for the killian cult. This is starting to remind me of the killian love for his D and yet couldnt shoot a ball in the ocean…not there yet but its getting there.
@@jhajdu2 Duren sucks because no-defense centers are automatically shitty players who make you lose.
No team "builds" an identity. That's like trying to engineer a child's personality.
But the best way to influence a team's identity is the coach.
And it's always worth noting that Cade, Ivey, Ausar and Duren were fine together with Fontecchio.
Thats the thing about "fit" is it's * FIVE* players. Dallas didn't "fit" until they replaced Grant Williams with PJ Washington. Jokic-Murray-MPJ didn't "fit" defensively until they got KCP and AG. Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown still don't "fit" but the surrounding players have changed around them to make it work
You don't draft 19 year olds based on what they are right now but what they might look like at 25 and you figure out the fit part once they are closer to finished products. In the interim you add talent (best player available) and fill needs (a second creator, a lob threat and a perimeter defender)
Also while the wing depth was horrendous and inexcusable, the idea was for Monte, Bogey and Burks to provide the spacing but the first two were injured and Burks got hurt 4 games in (then didn't make a shot for two months) and Monty played Killian who was supposed to get cut. (And played him with Ausar and Stewart which never should have happened.) You can't put the injuries and coaching on Troy though.
Weaver is nonetheless still the very worst GM in the history of the sport.
@@scottwickett1273 He's definitely not. He just has terrible luck and missed on a bunch of 50/50 bets
It's not like he drafted Darko Milicic over three HOFers or traded Tobias Harris for Blake Griffin or signed disastrous FA like Ben Gordon, Charlie Villanueva or Josh Smith. Even his greatest sin of holding onto Bogey too long pales in comparison to Amir Johnson, Tayshaun Prince and Andre Drummond being kept until they actually had negative trade value.
I'm not sure he's even a worse GM than Joe Dumars. Let alone Stan Van Gundy.
@@michaelahurt Ok I can tell you are stupid because you are arguing that a championship-winning GM is as bad as the most incompetent clown in the history of the profession.
I thought Weaver was the world's stupidest man, right up until I encountered you!
Penny stocks!?
Ku's alright 😎
Everybody was loving Troy on his Draft picksl Player development is coaching
No, it is absolutely not true that "everybody was loving Troy on his draft picks".
"Everybody" has no place in that sentence.
#1 Reason Weaver failed was not trading that #1 Overall pick in 2021. He opted to select an Overrated and Overhyped Ca e Cunningham. Ca e was a want, he was never a need or fit with the Detroit Pistons. Someone decided to select Ca e in hopes he could help to carry a team. He cannot. Ca e is the type of Player that needs to be carried, hence all the demands to get HELP for CA E!! This is not the Detroit Ca e's, it's the Detroit Pistons! How about we get the Pistons some HELP! You can't build a team around Ca e Cunningham he isn't the answer. He is too set in his selfish, lazy and entitled ways. That was Weaver and the Front Office biggest mistake Point Blank ○ PERIOD ● Trade Ca e and make things right.
I wonder what trade back offers were available. The rumors were disappointing v
Horrible culture and players themselves not improving their game
I agree with 100% Ku… but the MAIN reason for me is terrible coaching staff decision - we had a complete loser on Casey for years, when we had a chance to get a young coach, ready to focus 100% on the mental, technical and physical development of our young core, the Pistons decided to hire the WORST option possible: a loser, a guy who NEVER WANTED to be here, for a baaaaag of money… this is absolutely ridiculous. Add to the omission of Troy Weaver accepting Gores decision with no questioning. An absolute mess.
Honestly I feel like the league just screwed us with giving us 5 twice out of three years and quite as kept the year we got the # 1 pick that draft class really isn’t looking that great. The Paolo draft really set us back I like Ivey but he seems immature as a player and I believe that’s why Hayes started over him if we could have drafted Chet Paolo or Jabari I think we would be in a better position
1) They didn't get the #1 pick in 2023
2) They didn't get the #2 pick in 2022
3) They didn't get the #1 pick in 2020
And yet they were the youngest and worst team in the NBA. The lottery format needs to go. The “One-and-Done” rule necessitates a format change regarding the draft.
And this year’s draft further justifies this theory. Over 90% of these draftees need more time in college or developmental play before entering the NBA. In this era, there are more possible draft mishaps than in previous times.
@@mbwell There are more guys who slip through the cracks but I wouldn't call those mishaps. There's just more variance.
But the bust rate for top picks is no different.
@@mbwell That is what the G League is for, most of these coaching staff do not know how to develop players. It has nothing to do about them needing to stay in college longer. In the NBA it only a few coaching staff that actually develop players, and the pistons do not have one of those coaching staff and trainer staff.
Pistons need to look into signing it own training/ developmental coaching staff recruit them from colleges if they have too. Because if you look at what happening with pistons the last player that actually develop here good was Tayshaun prince. We have had bust every since then. Drummond had skills that he came her with, but we never developed him, he didn't develop post game, didnt develop outside shoot, and didn't develop as a leader in the locker room.
@@dbuck2862 Bingo. The lightbulb has finally came on. While comparing Prince to Drummond, you’ve clearly identified the outcome of a 4 year player versus a “One-and-Done”. Tayshaun completed 4 years of college, whereas Andre completed one. Not everyone is Wemby, Kobe, and LeBron. Grinding out 4-years is the proven formula for most players on and off the court. This is inductive of Prince’s career role today as an executive in the NBA.
As far as the G league component, I waiver in giving much value. The difference is the NCAA is more competitive oriented where players participate in hostile environments. The G league is more developmental oriented and less competitive. It’s void of reaching the psyche of the players and identifying how they will respond in pressured pack and meaningful games.
@@dbuck2862 Drummond was only available at 9 because there were concerns about his work ethic. Do you think it's a coincidence he stopped improving and his defense fell off once he got his money? He also had zero touch -- as evidenced by his FT shooting -- which is a huge reason why his post game never developed. He certainly tried, but it was never going to happen.
90% of player development is just playing and getting older which is why players are better after four years of college..And certainly we are able to better predict 22 year olds than 19 year olds
What's difficult in the NBA is if you're bad, players tend to develop bad habits and/or lose confidence. And if you're good, they don't get to play. But even now there aren't many coaches who are actually good at player development. And most of it is skills training now. The best development is just putting players in position to succeed so they build confidence.
Coaching
The #1 reason they failed so miserably this season was Monty. He never stuck with a consistent lineup to build chemistry. The first half the season he didn’t even play Ivey so how’s he supposed to improve. I’ve never seen a more disengaged coach. He sits on the sideline like he’s comatose with no energy or enthusiasm whatsoever, which you desperately need with a very young and impressionable team.
Preach bruh lol
He didn’t want Killian Hayes.
Why do you think that? Has new evidence been presented?
Hiring Monty killed this teams progress. He want to play the exact same way every game no matter the opponent or matchups, can't make adjustments, no gameplan or preparation, no studying, no growth in the player's game. Thinking you can just have Cade run pick, and roll or go one on one then surround him with four 3 point chuckers is asanine.
Trade Duran, the 5th pick, and a future 1st for Ingram and the Pelicans 21st pick and trade Ivey, Beef Stew, and the 21st pick from New Orleans for Jeremy Grant, then sign Nic Claxton and Malik Monk in free agency along with re-signing our very own Simone Fontecchio the Italian Stallion. Along with Ausar, Sasser, and a couple more contributors on your second unit this team suddenly looks like a serious Eastern Conference playoff contender with a chance to play in the Conference Finals. Wtbs we'll be some dawgs offensively and defensively.
Our guards still cant play D in your scenario. That includes Cade.
Terrible trade
I'm not giving up ANYthing for the privelege of wildly overpaying Ingram next summer.
@@jhajdu2 I would push back on "can't" here: Cade DIDN'T play defense this season, that's true, but he proved as a rookie that he CAN do it because he actively did do it, with the notable difference being he had a lesser offensive burden during his rookie year (because Jerami and Saddiq).
That team wins 20 of the first 40 then an injury sinks the team. As an added bonus we would be a tax payer.
👍
Wait -so Ku is liking comments that he agrees with ? Cmon man
All we need is to sign a player to a 40mill contract. Trade for a Big contract. Thats 2 players next to Cade and we can compete.
We went with defense, but Weaver and Fans started complaining and wanted Offense.
The fans desires do not have anything to do with anything. Blaming the fans is the most laughably stupid thing I have ever read.
@@scottwickett1273
Maybe because youre stupid. The point is the fans are the ones crying and whining, not Weaver.
The fans are trying to now question the moves they supported.
SO yes the fans desires do matter, when they are trying to distance themselves from the move because they didnt pan out. But yet was praising Weaver at the time and making him out to be a genius.
Its obvious you were one of those fans Scott.
@@ronaldmcdonald1977 No, you are slandering me, that is completely false: Weaver is the worst GM in the history of the sport, and I have been saying that for a long time now!
Should have drafted Brandin Podziemski of Cam Whitmore over Ausar.