This video is outdated now, unfortunately. I'll be making an updated version at some point but the general gist of the Alpha 20 Special Ammo rework is as follows: -All AP Ammos now penetrate 50% of armour. Previously variable and weaker. -Hollow Point rounds reworked into HiPower rounds: Removed the armour bonus, meaning they are essentially just extra damage but the damage increase is only about 15% so I wouldn't say they're worth it (again, unless in certain stealth builds) -Penetrator Perk nerfed from 35% Penetration to 20% penetration. 🍃Ghillie Suit video: th-cam.com/video/G9nbL-Ek-PA/w-d-xo.html
I actually like using HP now. Great way to get a bit of extra damage. I just keep a backup with regular ammo just in case I need to deal with soldiers.
i appreciate you dedication to making guilds for a game undergoing constant changes. must be frustrating to make a video and have parts of it incorrect after a few months or even a few days.
If you have excess materials, you can't really go wrong with AP rounds, especially if you have bulk crafting. As you mentioned, a sniper rifle with AP is a beast. And, at end game, with all perks/books etc...being able to sweep away zombie waves is always a welcome feature of those rounds. All the best. Cheers.
I tend to keep a Tactical Assault rifle with AP during horde night exclusively for demos, my main weapon though is an M60 machine gun with regular rounds.
With how it's worded, I thought the max pistol book would mean it pierces all armor. I am only slightly disappointed that my SMG isn't the demo melter that I thought she was.
Considering the sneak damage bonus of crossbows in stealth ...HP ammo is pointless (that's a pun) 'all' of the time. The problem with AP ammo, is that the time it takes to swap weapons or ammo types, is a sunk-cost in time vs your DPS, and can make it difficult to justify AP ammo as a 'second' ammo type. Sure it does more damage, but it costs more resources, and does it do enough more damage to out-DPS someone who just keeps firing with regular ammo? I think this issue limits the viability of AP ammo to just perception rifles, where you'd use it pretty much full time during a horde.
@@IzPrebuilt Not sure where the confrontational vibe is coming from. I thought your video was well presented and accurate. Anyway, "kneecap yourself by investing points into archery"? And we're talking specifically about stealth gameplay... You do realize that a tier 1 compound crossbow, at bear minimum base stats, with no mods, and no archery skill or any other perk, shooting at the torso (not the head) does 157.5 sneak damage with steel bolts, right? Bows & crossbows have a 3.5x sneak attack bonus. That's more damage than a tier 1 (base stats & unmodded) sniper rifle has from sneak (regular ammo) with 5/5 in Dead Eye. 9% more damage to be exact. And that's before even considering the damage nerf from using a silencer, which a rifle would need to do stealth kills. Anyway, I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was just adding the thought that if HP ammo is only useful for stealth kills (your conclusion), then HP ammo is not very useful at all. Because no matter what you've perked into, a compound crossbow with steel bolts will generally outperform it for stealth kills. Steel bolts get a 20% armor penetration too. I'm not suggesting perking heavily for crossbows, they suck on horde night. Although I have tried it, and they're a very good "budget rocket launcher" with explosive bolts if you're perked enough to fire them somewhat rapidly. But I tend not to use explosives much for horde nights. Even if you're full perception spec and not a single point in agility, i think you're better off with a compound crossbow for stealth kills. Even if The Penetrator perk didn't apply to bows (which it does) I still think x-bow would outperform for stealth kills. X-bows are really, REALLY 'op' for stealth kills, they should probably nerf them.
Oh, no wonder explosives (rockets specifically) felt better to use against armored targets. Now to find a way to stop my rockets from going through the floor >>; Lots of good info here, thanks 🧡!
I never really delved into other ammo types (and I don't play on too high difficulty settings) but they did always feel like a waste when the m60 with a drum mag could obliterate groups.
You may want to take down and redo this vid. AP armour is awesome now. So much so that I am running a "deconstruct ammo" mod just to rebuild AP ammo. Also hollow point is now called high power. Just saying coz it might put off newer potential subscribers. EDIT. I just saw your sticky. Left it up because I highly recommend using the deconstruct ammo mod.
I just have a stack of ap for armoured targets, till I'm rich and waste my infinite supply on all AP, when I'm not playing full melee that is lol good video though! Thanks!
I actaully did much the same on hoard night, a sniper with regular, or HP ammo for the plentiful soft target things, and switch to a TARifle, with AP ammo for taking out the Demolitionists and soldiers more effectively. good times. That said, if I intend to do a corridor type hoardebase with a sniper again, the AP and penetrator perks will still serve me well, huh?
Sounds like AP is what to spec into, when you get into bulk crafting your ammo of choice then. But what to do with all the basic normal ammo? sell it? or uncraft it, and convert to the better ammo types? thoughts?
Man what I'd like to see and am struggling to find has to do with zombie ai. Specifically what blocks the view as a solid but aren't like using an open door as a bridge and blocks that they don't see that do function as a solid. I played console forever and have moved to PC. On console trapdoors we're an epic indestructible fence on the other hand knowing 2hat blocks can function as a force field also has it's niche uses.
Forgive me - one thing wasn't clear: HP *raises* enemies' armor as well? Is this to incentivize using it against non-armored enemies? Therefore, AP is obviously meant to be used against armored enemies, but HP should defeat a regular enemy faster, yes? Thanks in advance for the clarity!
Yep, HP actively increases the armour of armoured enemies. Against unarmored enemies, it does about 30% more damage but it does less to armoured enemies. "Light Armored" zombies [the biker, utility and football player] have 20% armour and as such when hit with an HP bullet they'll protect against 40% of that damage, making the HP's extra 30% damage pointless. "Heavy Armored" zombies [the soldier (50% armour) and the demo (60%)] will be put up to 100% and 120% armour respectively. Meaning that you cannot damage them with HP bullets. That is unless you have the penetrator perk which will allow HP to damage them, but very inefficiently. Basic shotgun shells also have this effect to a lesser extent, raising enemy armour by 40%. With the penetrator perk, they raise enemy armour by only 5%.
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This video is outdated now, unfortunately. I'll be making an updated version at some point but the general gist of the Alpha 20 Special Ammo rework is as follows:
-All AP Ammos now penetrate 50% of armour. Previously variable and weaker.
-Hollow Point rounds reworked into HiPower rounds: Removed the armour bonus, meaning they are essentially just extra damage but the damage increase is only about 15% so I wouldn't say they're worth it (again, unless in certain stealth builds)
-Penetrator Perk nerfed from 35% Penetration to 20% penetration.
🍃Ghillie Suit video: th-cam.com/video/G9nbL-Ek-PA/w-d-xo.html
Sorry but isn't .44 books penetration infinite?
I remeber a base that was a corridor and killing half a dozen with the same bullet.
@@alvarocattani1323 No
@@alvarocattani1323 The book should definitely be more clear, but the Magnum Enforcer bonus is just +1 penetration I think.
I'm curious if this makes the AP Slug better than Shotgun Shells or not.
Good old UnFun Pimps. Bringing the Nerf Bat to anything they see that actually makes the game easier or more advantageous for the player.
These videos are incredible. I don't see this deep of analysis of statistics in 7D2D on any other youtube channel. Thank you for the amazing content!
I agree 100%.
I actually like using HP now. Great way to get a bit of extra damage. I just keep a backup with regular ammo just in case I need to deal with soldiers.
i appreciate you dedication to making guilds for a game undergoing constant changes. must be frustrating to make a video and have parts of it incorrect after a few months or even a few days.
If you have excess materials, you can't really go wrong with AP rounds, especially if you have bulk crafting.
As you mentioned, a sniper rifle with AP is a beast. And, at end game, with all perks/books etc...being able to sweep away zombie waves is always a welcome feature of those rounds.
All the best.
Cheers.
Thanks for the video never really new if the ammo types where worth it so thanks for cleaning it up man
Love your vids! I recently got back into the game and this really helps!
I tend to keep a Tactical Assault rifle with AP during horde night exclusively for demos, my main weapon though is an M60 machine gun with regular rounds.
I like the paddle on a moving boat analogy lmao it’s true it won’t do much might as well save the materials for more regular ammo
With how it's worded, I thought the max pistol book would mean it pierces all armor. I am only slightly disappointed that my SMG isn't the demo melter that I thought she was.
So we'll explained 👌 This definitely changes up my horde nights. Thanks for making my work days so much better! Cheers dude
I never knew special ammo uses more weapon durability. now I’m gonna end up thinking twice about using special ammo I find early game.
I have learned recently that AP amo will destroy your base if you're not careful. I haven't tried HP amo.
Good content
Hey What?! you can craft gunpowder direct from the inventory without a chem bench?! Never knew that.
Considering the sneak damage bonus of crossbows in stealth ...HP ammo is pointless (that's a pun) 'all' of the time.
The problem with AP ammo, is that the time it takes to swap weapons or ammo types, is a sunk-cost in time vs your DPS, and can make it difficult to justify AP ammo as a 'second' ammo type. Sure it does more damage, but it costs more resources, and does it do enough more damage to out-DPS someone who just keeps firing with regular ammo? I think this issue limits the viability of AP ammo to just perception rifles, where you'd use it pretty much full time during a horde.
Yeah if you want to kneecap yourself by investing points into archery.
@@IzPrebuilt Not sure where the confrontational vibe is coming from. I thought your video was well presented and accurate.
Anyway, "kneecap yourself by investing points into archery"? And we're talking specifically about stealth gameplay...
You do realize that a tier 1 compound crossbow, at bear minimum base stats, with no mods, and no archery skill or any other perk, shooting at the torso (not the head) does 157.5 sneak damage with steel bolts, right?
Bows & crossbows have a 3.5x sneak attack bonus.
That's more damage than a tier 1 (base stats & unmodded) sniper rifle has from sneak (regular ammo) with 5/5 in Dead Eye. 9% more damage to be exact. And that's before even considering the damage nerf from using a silencer, which a rifle would need to do stealth kills.
Anyway, I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was just adding the thought that if HP ammo is only useful for stealth kills (your conclusion), then HP ammo is not very useful at all. Because no matter what you've perked into, a compound crossbow with steel bolts will generally outperform it for stealth kills. Steel bolts get a 20% armor penetration too.
I'm not suggesting perking heavily for crossbows, they suck on horde night. Although I have tried it, and they're a very good "budget rocket launcher" with explosive bolts if you're perked enough to fire them somewhat rapidly. But I tend not to use explosives much for horde nights.
Even if you're full perception spec and not a single point in agility, i think you're better off with a compound crossbow for stealth kills. Even if The Penetrator perk didn't apply to bows (which it does) I still think x-bow would outperform for stealth kills.
X-bows are really, REALLY 'op' for stealth kills, they should probably nerf them.
Oh, no wonder explosives (rockets specifically) felt better to use against armored targets. Now to find a way to stop my rockets from going through the floor >>;
Lots of good info here, thanks 🧡!
This video is next level man, well done. Where do you find the facts about a zombie such as his armor percentage?
In the game files
I could see breaching rounds being useful for raiding player bases in PvP.
I never really delved into other ammo types (and I don't play on too high difficulty settings) but they did always feel like a waste when the m60 with a drum mag could obliterate groups.
You may want to take down and redo this vid. AP armour is awesome now. So much so that I am running a "deconstruct ammo" mod just to rebuild AP ammo. Also hollow point is now called high power. Just saying coz it might put off newer potential subscribers. EDIT. I just saw your sticky. Left it up because I highly recommend using the deconstruct ammo mod.
I just have a stack of ap for armoured targets, till I'm rich and waste my infinite supply on all AP, when I'm not playing full melee that is lol good video though! Thanks!
I actaully did much the same on hoard night, a sniper with regular, or HP ammo for the plentiful soft target things, and switch to a TARifle, with AP ammo for taking out the Demolitionists and soldiers more effectively. good times.
That said, if I intend to do a corridor type hoardebase with a sniper again, the AP and penetrator perks will still serve me well, huh?
Thank you! 🙏 Naturally I lean towards regular ammo, and use extra gun powder for explosives. Interested to see the result 🤙
Sounds like AP is what to spec into, when you get into bulk crafting your ammo of choice then. But what to do with all the basic normal ammo? sell it? or uncraft it, and convert to the better ammo types? thoughts?
9mm ammo can be used for turrets which dont trigger demos now
@@wilhelmthegreat that's a good use as any!
You get your gp’s worth out of 7.62 ap with full perks, three gp yes but 5 times the damage simple decision there.
Il take the red one xD
10.20
Wait, what?
9mm MP is beast agains horde night. :)
Just switch to Semi.
Mmmm science 🤖
Man what I'd like to see and am struggling to find has to do with zombie ai. Specifically what blocks the view as a solid but aren't like using an open door as a bridge and blocks that they don't see that do function as a solid. I played console forever and have moved to PC. On console trapdoors we're an epic indestructible fence on the other hand knowing 2hat blocks can function as a force field also has it's niche uses.
Forgive me - one thing wasn't clear: HP *raises* enemies' armor as well? Is this to incentivize using it against non-armored enemies? Therefore, AP is obviously meant to be used against armored enemies, but HP should defeat a regular enemy faster, yes? Thanks in advance for the clarity!
Yep, HP actively increases the armour of armoured enemies. Against unarmored enemies, it does about 30% more damage but it does less to armoured enemies.
"Light Armored" zombies [the biker, utility and football player] have 20% armour and as such when hit with an HP bullet they'll protect against 40% of that damage, making the HP's extra 30% damage pointless.
"Heavy Armored" zombies [the soldier (50% armour) and the demo (60%)] will be put up to 100% and 120% armour respectively. Meaning that you cannot damage them with HP bullets.
That is unless you have the penetrator perk which will allow HP to damage them, but very inefficiently.
Basic shotgun shells also have this effect to a lesser extent, raising enemy armour by 40%. With the penetrator perk, they raise enemy armour by only 5%.
@@IzPrebuilt That's super clear and helps a ton. Thanks, bro!
in 7 days to die multiplayer, AP shell or HP shell more effective againts heavy armoured enemy players?
what is bulk craft?
It sounds like he is saying "billet"
Plz video with fan made pois
Armor piercing ammo is pretty good especially on PvP but after all who plays 7dtd PvP anyway?
I really wish there was a mod that eliminated the bullet spread while aiming weapons. Super annoying. If that mod exists please somebody let me know.
Is this the same for alpha 20?
Nope, check pinned comment for details though.
Hate the tags at the top of the video. Wish yt never put them in.
Hp ammo is useless
$$$$