Chasing NKP 765 In Northeast Ohio Part 3: Trouble On The Connection (A Greasy Situation)
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Filmed July 2015
Nickel Plate Road no. 765 is a 2-8-4 "Berkshire" type steam locomotive built for the Nickel Plate Road in 1944 by the Lima Locomotive Works in Lima, Ohio. Classified as a "S-2" class Berkshire, the locomotive operated fast, heavy freight and passenger trains until retirement in 1958. It's also similar to Pere Marquette 1225.
Last run June 14, 1958
Retired May 4, 1963
Restored September 1, 1979
In 2013, 765 was officially included in Norfolk Southern's 21st Century Steam program, an effort to engage the general public and celebrate the railroad's heritage through steam locomotive operations. Plans saw the 21st Century Steam to visit many of Norfolk Southern's major terminals between 2013-2015. On the weekend of July 25-26, the Berkshire hauled excursions from Youngstown, Ohio to Ashtabula, Ohio.
The Video:
NKP 765 is running a ferry move (empty train to the next place) and is moving east from the Lake Erie District onto the Youngstown connection, turning south onto the Youngstown line in Ashtabula Ohio. The train was going from Cleveland Ohio to Youngstown, Ohio. The train was mostly empty but still have some weight to drag. Besides the tender, there is an Auxiliary (water) tender for more water on the go, which was full, and had several loaded gons of coal for 765. The coal goes with 765 on ferry moves due to issues with ordering coal on the go. Along with the loaded aux tender and several coal cars, 765 is pulling 20 some passenger cars along as well.
Going around the Connection (and stalls)
765 with its rather heavy, lengthy train, 765 still needs to turn over 2 switches, and follow the sharp curve onto the connection and head south up a 1.24% grade all at once. All these curves, can be too sharp could build a bind. 765 would be working harder rounding the curve but a plan was made. Grease the flange ways to make less of a bind/ resistance on the wheels. A simple fix, to ease something through in any bind.
What went wrong?
When requested to grease the rails, the railroad maintainers did just that. The railroad maintainers greased the inside edge of the rails where the flange ways would roll over. The issue arise after the train comes to a complete stop. After realizing what happened, the railroad maintainer applied too much grease for the drive wheels. When the wheels rolled over grease, since there was too much, it smeared to the top of the rail, causing the locomotive to lose grip and spin to a slow stop.
Was It necessary to grease the rails?
Yes. The steam locomotive has a rigid frame and is not as flexible as a diesel locomotive. The 4 big drive wheels are rigid and hunts for the rails as it goes down the tracks. Its a lot like bumper cars bumping into a wall. Greasing the rail would ease adhesion around the sharp curve.
Did the sanders work? Does the locomotive carry sand? Why wasn't the engineer applying it?
Yes, and yes! The engineer was applying it. This is one of the last few steam locomotives to be built, and has some of the most modern technology, especially after being rebuilt for excursion service. The sand was applied, as soon as the engineer realized he had wheel slip happening, but the greased outweighed the sand for the traction. The train came to a stop eventually.
Was the engineer aware of the situation/greased rails?
Yes and no. I am sure the engineer knew the connection (curve) was greased, but not overdone like what actually happened. It was a dry sunny summer day. So to have slippage like what was in the video coming out of nowhere would throw you off if you are in the hot seat driving the train.
The ended result:
Yes the train stopped. 765 backed up, and the crew men dumps cups of sand on top of the grease to get the traction again and made a second attempt to go around the curve, and succeeded.
Again remember- The locomotive was pulling a lengthy heavy train, switching tracks, then switched onto a tight curve (connection track) and climb a hill at 1.24% grade all while it was over greased. There was a lot of adhesion, and resistance against the locomotive. The grease would help but "too much of a good thing is bad for you" and that is exactly what happened. - บันเทิง
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What a beautiful piece of living history, I hope we continue to preserve these lovely machines. Talk about Beauty and the beast - This train has both, beauty and is a beast. I love the smell of graphite, oil and steam all mingled into one. I was fortunate to join the British Merchant Navy as an Engineer whilst they still had steam ships with main engine being a steam turbine and most of the auxiliary equipment being reciprocating steam engines. Thanks for this video, its pure magic in motion.
How long ago was that if you don't mind me asking ?
@@toyotanerd2269 I joined the Brirish Merchant navy in 1973.
The actual encounter of a functional steam engine is something that is etched in the mind for life. I saw a steamer in 1975 in Tacoma Park MD. They are loud with an array of pressurized sounds. love it!!
Igyuyyy
When tired I watch the aweful power and beauty of steam engines...marvellous....Salute to crew who handle this huge & complex machine
Even though this isn’t the richest neighborhood, you can tell that they take pride in their homes, their yards and keeping the streets clear from trash and litter. 👍👍👍👍👍👍. Nice job Ohio!!!!
animatated🚦🎶
melt dsnowunk
nwn arist unknown
album🚂🛤
I was a brakeman on the N.K.P railroad in Bellevue Ohio in 1953 , I road this steam engine many times , my what a power machine it was , it would pull a 100 loaded freight car 70 to 80 miles per hour , we run from Bellevue Ohio to Fort Wayne Indiana, After all these years I still like to watch the train go by ,
ml weaver thats awesome! Thanks for watching!
It's huge, loud, and beautiful, every time I saw it's kind, I can feel energy. Love it.
I've never seen a steam locomotive in person.
I've always wanted to, just there isn't any in this area.
Sometime in the late eighties driving through the mountains in Tennessee I heard one once.
It's quite an eerie sound when it echoes in the mountains and on the ridges.
Thanks for the video.
My grandpa was an engineer. He retired in ‘72 from the B&O. I got to ride in one a few times. Great memories….
I used to hear the engines in the next valley over, late at night, as they passed Cotton Hill Station. I don't think they were steam locos but it was in the late 1950s. At any rate, I could hear that whistle blow as it went passed that dead station and it seemed like the loneliest sound in the world.
You really should, living in England you are never that far from a steam engine ( not as big as this beauty though). So make the journey and help keep your heritage alive, you won't regret it.
I thought these had sand systems to dump sand to the wheels when needed rather than manually doing it. That was a cool engine, nicely restored.
Yes nickel plate road 765 and the others in the Berkshires in the class do have Sanders equipped by the wheels but the oil was to much for the engines Sanders
dws productions-BlueYt
And the train has to already be moving for the sanders on them to be effective
How DARE you
@@daniel17319 d
Its called a sander
Beautiful, beautify art, technology, power, ingenuity, design. I expected to hear the engineer jump off and say "alright everyone, get out and push on the count 3 ...".
Thanks for sharing .... !
What an audacious concept. We're going to build a water tight container out of iron and steel and rivet it all together. Then heat it to hundreds of pounds per square inch. And put it on wheels and roll it down a track at high speed. And it WON'T blow up!
Awesome. Beautiful machine. Thumbs up to its caretakers and great respect to its designers and builders. You guys were giants.
Well, that’s why steam locomotives have pop off valves, like that loud hissing thing going off at 1:11. When there’s too much steam pressure in the engine, that valve releases the excess steam. Hence, why more modern steamers don’t have a problem with blowing up as much as the earlier models. That pop off valve is super important when talking about steam pressure safety.
@@6709ify I guess it's the concept of sealing pressure with metal on metal interfaces. We do this all the time -- airplanes, locomotives, spacecraft, etc -- but I still don't fully understand how. I asked a guy who worked at Boeing one time -- you send a plane into the sky whose metal skin is riveted together. You do it multiple times and the plane's body flexes as it flies. HOW do you keep it hermetically sealed? He says well we use special glues... and I cut him off. SPECIAL GLUES?! You GLUE the plane together??? He didn't bother finishing what he was going to say LOL.
But yeah I love looking at huge steam engines and wondering about it. I get that they have safety valves but that's a lot of rockin and rollin down the track at 200 psi.
@@darioinfini It’s funny you mention that because ever since I was a kid, I was always fascinated by vehicles in general. Cars, trucks, buses, trains, helicopters, airplanes, boats, semis, anything made out of metal and can move under its own power. Trains, to me, are particularly fascinating because of their sheer size & weight. And the fact that these 2 skinny steel rails can hold this gigantic vehicle up with no problem! Trains are huge! Especially steam engines! They weigh thousands of tons and are essentially the size of an office building. An office building that can move! And these few-inch wide rails can support all that unbelievable weight?! So, like you, I think about this stuff a lot as well. It’s mind-blowing, to say the least.
BTW, that glue bit was hilarious. I cracked up reading that! 🤣
@@6709ify I've had exactly the same thought about the rails. The Big Boy literally weighs one million pounds. ONE MILLION. I think I did read that the engineers had basically reached the limit of the rails to support the weight. They could have gone bigger but normal rails wouldn't be able to handle it. Another thing that fascinates me endlessly is that the Big Boy has the articulating front truck that hinges independently from the rest of the carriage to be able to go around curves. So when I was looking at this thing and thinking about it I realized that the steam pipe from the boiler to the pistons HAD to have some kind of flexible interface somewhere carrying steam. I found it in a a pair of rotating elbow joints. It blows my mind that engineers were able to design a rotatable elbow joint capable of holding 200 psi steam pressure in the 1940s. Again, a metal on metal rotating interface mind you good for 200 psi. This is rocket science before rocket science.
@@darioinfini And as huge & monstrous as the Big Boy is, there are other steam locomotives in the world that would rival it in size, weight & pulling power. The Norfolk & Western Y6b, Chesapeake & Ohio Allegheny and Great Northern R-2 are just a few other articulated steam engines that gave the Big Boy a run for its money. Some of those locomotives were several tons heavier than the Big Boy and pulled even longer & heavier trains than it could! Think about that for a second. Back when the steam era was in full swing, Union Pacific Big Boy had rivals among it that were heavier and even stronger. 😮
It gives the impression that if it did hook up it has the torque to move the world back slightly as it started to roll.
The art, the metal, the sounds, the sights. I would pay just to watch these come and go.
I love watching these old engines when they’re really moving down the tracks!
Someone has to switch on the traction control. Lionel had Magna Traction that worked . All kidding aside it’s very rewarding to see that people put time and effort into these beautiful giants. It’s just fun listening to the chuffing and watching the drivers moving.
I think they were applying too much power. You can see that when they put a little bit of power it did start moving, but when they put a lot of power, it just kept spinning. This is a really cool train. ❤
@ 1:16-1:130, it looks like the train is trying to "burn rubber" with that slippage. I think that looks so damn cool the way all those levers, beams, and what not, are moving to make the wheels turn. It will never never get old to me. I know these aren't the most environmental friendly but they are damn cool looking....that's for sure!!
I keep rewatching this one, it fascinates me. The driver certainly knows his stuff, this would have been only too easy for the slip to become uncontrolled and destroy the locomotive. Interesting to actually see the sanders in operation. Great video and well done to the guy on the throttle!!!
is this a problem for modern deisels?
@@randomrazr Modern diesel would not require grease in the first place so not really.
@@Kycilak sand i ment
Proper term is "engineer".
The 765 crew is and always has been a class act.
That's always SO cool when you watch the arms on the wheels turn and turn so fast until it finally kicks in.
I know it's wheel slip and it's not good for this to happen at all, I just like watching it when it does
Hi
@@arogyappamudbal1839 🚜
Id love to see a few of these a year pulling. Especially in the winter. 20 below zero. Steam just rolling down the tracks. Cool.
This was a great video - thanks for sharing. It was funny how even the cop took out his phone and started taking pictures (6:32)
Fuck the police
This reminds me of my home town (eastern Washington) where there was a grade coming and going and the usual route was from north to south. Every year or two some of the fun loving local guys would grease the rails on the outbound side of town to the consternation of the evening train crew. Laying in bed at night you could hear the engine hit the greased section and spin to a stop, whistle a couple of times and then back all the way to the down slope on the northern side of town, get a good run at the greased section and nearly make it through. Failing, it would repeat the process until it finally made it all the way past the greased section, by which time the entire town was awake. What fun.
That's just awesome, good times!
Wish I could do the same!!!
Not cool...
Yikes
I used to live in Eastern Washington.....just curious where your prank took place.
We used to put pennies on the tracks and retrieve them later all flattened out, but that's all.
I could watch that train all day. What a beauty.
Thank you for your written explanation.
Best regards from Brazil.
Man, those Berks are beautiful locomotives!
Wow! That was hard work.You would think that the massive weight of the loco' would itself prevent wheelspin. I guess the sand boxes had run out.The front drive wheel appeared to have lost a fair amount of grease Hope all was well. These trains are an extremely important part of American history and heritage, ( and all over the world) We certainly hold them close to are hearts in Great Britain. Thank you
I saw a video with James May explaining why trains have a lot of trouble with a grade of only 2% and can't really go up anything steeper than that. He said that the surface area of the wheels of a locomotive that's actually touching the tracks is only the size of two 50p coins.
In this video, the train had just run through a nearby flange greaser. Passing freight had splattered grease all over the rails, getting it on the steamer's drive wheels too. Normally it doesn't slip anywhere near this much.
Eventually the crew's efforts in manual sanding and wiping away the grease allowed the engine to work through the tight curve and be on its way.
8:02 "I'm helping! ROW! ROW!" XD
XD.
Lol
Excellent video and explanation. Thanks for posting it up.
Nada más hermoso y romántico que una locomotora a vapor
Trains need sand at the drive wheels for tracktion. That is what they are putting on the rails. Either the sand boxes ran out or they malfunctioned. Those steam locomotives are super powerful.
They did use sand. The sand being dispersed was too little amout
@@LDaniel_BDuce Understandable.
When I was in college in Russia (Biysk Altay), I rode in a tram in winter to classes, it was -45 degrees Celsius (-49 Fahrenheit) on the street.
The wheels of the tram were spinning, but he stood motionless.
I hate Putin and his russian mafia.
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1 second ago
Same thing happened here with J 611 on a fan trip in 1989. It was a Buffalo-Ashtabula round trip, west on the NKP, east on the parallel NYC. turning the consist here at Ashtabula. The J had to push its train through the connector and up the grade onto the Ytown Line in order to clear the switch, and the pull forward across the diamond and through the SE connector onto the Conrail Chicago Line. Same problem then, too much grease. An NS local working west of Ashtabula on the NKP had to drop its train and come to the rescue to couple to the J and help shove the train through the connection.
“Please drive slowly We our chlidren”
Excuse me, what?
@Cynical Demon Sad :/
Love is missing.
'EAT' fell off.
Sweet home Alabama. The family tree is a circle, they're their own children..
On first I read that sign as: "please drive slowly on our children". Macabra.
The beauty of steam locomotives. All the glory and struggles today just like the Era then. That's why people love steam.
Mostly because of pants.
They are beautiful until the foreman gives you the job card with "Valve Job" written on it, that will knock the smile off you face, especially if its on the night shift 3 days before Christmas on the GWR, done it, not very pleasant !!
@@sadelsor The stories are as amazing as the steam locomotives themselves.
awesome job I lived,loved the era of the steam locomotives,they have class.
The ease with which this beast spins those gigantic wheels....
Amazing what a difference a bit of sand does ...
That’s some impressive wheelslip. Imagine being in a car waiting for the train to go.
Imagine being the guy that puts in a blurry 15 second clip to show one guy on a motorcycle crossing safely at hundreds of feet away.
Then he or she is the luckiest person on earth
I would never mind to see this masterpiece, especially in car
TIARA ][ COVER SANTRI DA👇
th-cam.com/channels/vPdjzoCK0-sgo83A2m0lFA.html
Sweet footage man!
Wow, this one video may have turned me into a railroad enthusiast! - How fascinating to watch
Thanks for posting! Great train & good filming.
I'm a simple man.
I see choo-choo, I click.
Nnnnn jbm8
U..
Jep
Great video and well done to the guy on the throttle!!!
*SPEED AND POWER SOLVES MANY THINGS!*
Not without traction bud.
Ah,yes, the Tim"the Tool Man" principle!
Thank you ! Excellent work
When man harnesses a dragon for his power! Thing's happen and just a little logic and patience gets things going back on track again.
Meanwhile, Tom Hanks the conductor is yelling “GET US THE BLAZES OUT OF HERE!!”
Beautiful footage and train, I Subscribed 😎👍
Chasing NKP 765 North East steam loco engine view is very nice. Our Traditional engine always Remember to past.
On the last run of the Woodstock VT railroad, some young guys greased the rails on Shallis Hill. The passengers had to push the train over the top. This was in 1933.
There is a solar powered greaser on a line near my area and I often wondered if there would ever be a problem with wheel slippage!
Good thought! the greaser is solar powered, and is turned on when the metal wheels short across the rails, other known as "shunting" just like how the lights and gates turn on within a certain space, except the crossings are powered by power lines and batteries. The greaser lays only a very thin bead of grease on only the flange way part of the rail for minimal friction, compared to the video, where the maintainer slapped lots of grease all over the rails, especially the top/head of the rail, where you will lose traction. some greasers are programmed to delay so it will not start greasing til the motive power passes through. Since the mid 90s, EMD and GE built engines with (if you ordered the correct trucks) come with built in greasers (due to the new technology) the trucks can flex around sharper curves. The grease is contained in a big trash like bag, that sits in a drum, and gets squeezed out like toothpaste when the train passes. There is an episode of extreme trains where they help out and work on the greaser.
Painesville Railfans What county was the sin?
by the wat, the description was incredibly helpful thank you :D
Helluva big loco! Be great to be there and see it live.
I would not mind at all if I got stuck in traffic to see something like that that's a one in a lifetime opportunity
It's beautiful 😍😍😍😍
My grandfather was an engineer for the B&O. I got to ride in one, run the throttle, helped the fireman throw coal and blow the whistle. When I was 12 or so, I rode in a diesel electric from Cincinnati to Lima and back a couple of times. I miss my grandpa. He was a great man.
hard to skip watching it
Gotta love em
I was and loved every minute of it .
I believe this must have been a test run, it was pulling 27~28 cars including a water tender!! That's a lot for a Berkshire wheel arrangement 2-8-4 Engine.
3.58 Nice paint job on that old beater!
If you can, look for the video "Locomotivas a vapor Baldwin em São João Del Rei-MG". They are part of the railroad compartment of the small town of São João Del Rei, State of Minas Gerais in Brazil. The country bought many US steam engines in the late 1800s and even today several of them work for leisurely tourist trips. And it is the only one in the world that works under 0,60cm gauge.
As soon as I can, I'll make more videos about this railway complex that shows how life was in the late 1800s and early 20th century.
На старых паровозах(например, 1920 годов), над каждым колесом были \песочницы\ - в них ссыпали чистый,сухой песок как раз для антипробуксовки.
Just like in India..the difference is 2 men will sit on the very front part of the train(!!!!!) to monitor the situation/wheel.they throw sand/salt on wheel/track if there's a slip
My father, CA 1905, when hauling clay for CPR in Baniff did the same greasing when CPR was going to put in a narrow Guage rr to haul clay. He was a teamsters alon with someone who still operates a tour bus line.
У этого паровоза песочница тоже есть. Но видно в нее забыли песок засыпать. :-)
Learned something new. Thanks.
bubbas channel glad to hear! How did you find the video?
Nhanhnhuchop
Wow1 good lookin' steam train, Norfolk & Western one of our fovorite collection.....thanks for sharing
Nice video
Thank you for providing such an informative description.
Donna Woodman thank you
Holy mother of torque!
electronic wheel slip technology was still a few decades in the future when this monster was dreamed up.
2er द् fsfssdcat
Great car that pulled around the corner. Crazy amount of torque
Love the sound of that whistle
wheel slip occurring... traction speed decreased
Yeah nkp 765 is wheel slipping
Why doesn't he put sand?? Oh they do at the end
@@matt995amg Read videos description
Don't they have automatic sand dispensers?
When i saw this video for the first time i imagined this is a very good edit
Very Nice and Interesting, thanks for sharing this with the audience.
Beautiful capture bro
Flangeway greasers are not uncommon. They apply grease only to the inner flank of the rail head.
The NC&StL J3 4-8-4 "Dixie" class of 1943 had the two leading sets of drivers in bearing boxes that stretched across the frame - joining the left and right bearing boxes in a single casting. The leading four drivers had a couple of inches free side play in the frame (not "frames" - the J3 had a one piece cast steel main frame that extended from the pilot mounting brackets to the rear buffer and coupling link housing, incorporating the main air reservoir). The lead truck had a center pivot bolster connected to the truck side frames casting by swing links, allowing some side play. On curves the swing links acted to increase the loading on the lead truck axles. The J3s could negotiate a 19° flat curve under their own power at low speed without binding.
How is the NKP Berk designed in this respect? It is one of the last road steam locomotives built in the USA.
Al Grayson im not too sure how the design of the berk platforms out to compare what you mention. There is alot of unique technology in steam locomotives
The rear two drivers flex some to allow 765 to negotiate tighter curves.
Not that it matters, but you left the A out of situation. Great video! I bet the greaser got a stern talking to.
NorfolkSoutherns#1Fan never noticed it thanks and i bet!
Painesville Railfans No problem.
Hey guys... Hey you yes you lovely people that I'll never meet I just wanted to let you know that you are loved and deserving of everything! Today is going to be a wonderful day Stay safe everyone ⭐
I wish these locomotives were still pulling the pullman cars as they were the pride of the railroads in their heydays.
These old engines are living monsters from the past.
It was common practice to have a greased rail outside the steam shops back in the day to check for problems after a overhaul. Mechanics could just stand and watch a few feet away if everything looked and sounded good.
Yes! Not with just grease but with oil as well. There was footage on the net somewhere (possibly TH-cam) of the Louisville and Nashville Railroad's "Slip Track" where it was a dedicated track in that yard, near the shops to test the locos just outside at full speed. Love the footage they show in the video. I could only imagine how hammered and worn that track was. Thanks for watching! Please subscribe!
This is majestic
It's oddly satisfying watching her drive wheels spin out of control.
Good thing they had so much help or they would have been stuck for a long time.
Great catch.
rich sheehan thank you!
Gonna
Egedbdy
0:24 who also thought 765 was at speed 😂
I asked and someone answered correctly because at about 7:45 you see the wheel slowly turn and hear the steam escaping every 90 degrees of the wheel turning. That tells me that the wheels are 90 degrees out of phase and the axle must be strong enough to transfer the torque from the power stroke of one cylinder to the wheel on the other side.
This is my favourite steam train of all time
This train is awesome! Someone may have greased the rails thinking that they're funny. If so, I'm sure they topped off their evening cow tipping and giggling.
After reading the description of events we must come to one conclusion. Old rigid frame loco's must be very particular about the modern tracks they choose to run on. Also , when playing with grease one must also carry an ample supply of DE-GREASER.
Meanwhile in Poland on most railways we are still using old tracks from 1890's...
This is one of the best mechanical machine ever created.
tout juste MAGNIFIQUE !
Q lindo no Brasil é raro ver umas dessas conservadas 😢
Que bello ver esta maquina tan hermosa y de grande ingieneria
The Berkshire type 2-8-4 with its tall drive wheels was designed for relatively high speed while hauling passenger trains. She is one of the larger of the non articulated engines of the era. Great for long straight runs across the plains, but less tractive effort than the freight engines with smaller drivers, and full articulation.
I think you are mistaken
@@matthewlink2254 Correct, the Berks were fast freight locomotives. 60-70 MPH vs. 80-90+ for passenger engines. They got around curves just fine too.
Nice work man
what a train beauty I like that design
00:35 Jeremy clarkson is in there going "POWER!!!!" "GO FASTER!!!!!"
James May: You pillock!"
@@KeeperOfPoops lool
The driver is trying to run her like it ole 97 on her last run on oil
Nice video shot, thanks for sharing it, keep it up :)
Hansome steam lokomotif 😍😍😍😍
Big body, powerful and have much fans🎉🎉🎉
It must have been awesome to see that behemoth in person!
i LOVE THE GUY WHO WAS USING HIS SHOVEL LIKE IT WAS A BOAT xD Go to 8:04 to see
_Melonic_ б
XD
I am surprised that the sandboxes equipment was not working on the locomotive.
A sandboxes is a basic requirement on all railway vehicles.
Looks like slick Willy been at it again.
Was that Doyle McCormack at the throttle?..... they don't come any better if it was him, he's one of the best and a near modern day legend in the world of steam locomotives and trains in general.
2Stroke Diesel Power im almost certain it was him, rich was at the crossing. They are both awesome!
The locomotive is very big.
22/5000
Old-fashioned but still good.
Rrgc mu6t4121124454578
A velha locomotiva esbanja potência parece ser mais potente que as locomotivas a diesel, essa maquina e magnifica
Obrigado pelo video
Always old is gold .......❤️❤️❤️