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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 พ.ค. 2011
- Why Some Races Outperform Others
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A psychologist explains the latest research into education disparity.
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LAURENCE STEINBERG:
Laurence Steinberg is the Distinguished University Professor of Psychology at Temple University. An internationally renowned expert on psychological development during adolescence, he is the author of more than 250 articles and essays on growth and development during the teenage years, nd the author or editor of eleven books, including Adolescence the leading college textbook on adolescent development. A graduate of Vassar College and Cornell University, he was named as the first recipient of the Klaus J. Jacobs Research Prize in 2009, one of the largest prizes ever awarded to a social scientist, for his contributions to improving the lives of young people and their families.
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TRANSCRIPT:
Question: Can you explain your research into why students are becoming less engaged in academic pursuits?
Laurence Steinberg: And a couple things emerged from that study that I think are really important for understanding American education policy. The first is that a very significant proportion of kids tell us that they're just going through the motions when they're in school; I mean that they're not engaged, that they're not trying their hardest, that they're bored. And clearly we are not challenging kids in American schools as much as we should. And you see this if you do international comparisons. We didn't in this study, but if you look at how much time kids spend on homework, for example, the average in our study -- and this is a figure that you see in lots of different studies -- is about four to five hours a week for a typical high school student. In Japan it's four to five hours a day. And so you see the difference in magnitude of how hard we push kids here in America compared to other places.
The other thing that we found was that parents and peers have a huge impact on kids' engagement in school, independent of what's going on in the classroom. And so kids who are raised in households where their parents practice better parenting -- the kind of parenting that has been called authoritative parenting, where they're firm, but they're warm, and where their parents are involved in their schooling, where they go school conferences and so forth -- those kids do better in school. At the same time, it's not just the home, because we also found that there's significant peer pressure on kids that makes a difference, and unfortunately, more often than not it's peer pressure to do not as well as you might. So a very high proportion of kids told us that they refrained from raising their hand in class to answer a question because they're afraid that their peers will make fun of them. And so we need to do something to transform the culture that says it's okay to be smart. You can also be cool in other ways, but it's also okay to be smart.
Now, perhaps the most controversial finding that we came up with had to do with ethnic differences in achievement. Across all of the schools that we studied, Asian-American kids were doing significantly better than white kids, and white kids were doing significantly better than black and Latino kids. And that's controlling for family income, it's controlling for parental education, it's controlling for other factors that might be correlated with ethnicity and that might have played a role in this too. And when we look at why that is, we see several important things. The first is -- this is a great question that one of my collaborators said; we have to put this on a questionnaire -- and the question was, what's the lowest grade you could get without your parents getting angry, right? So the Asian kids, it's an A-minus, all right? For the white kids, you know, it's more like a B. And for the black and Latino kids, it's somewhere, you know, around a B-minus or C-plus. So clearly there are different expectations in these households.
The second thing is that when we ask kids about the importance of schooling, we see really different patterns in how kids from different ethnic groups answer the question. Asian kids tell us that they are sure that if they do poorly in school, something bad will happen to them. They won't get a good job in life, all right? Black and, to a certain extent, Latino kids don't have that belief. So every -- all ethnic groups share the belief that doing well in school has a payoff. It's how they think about doing poorly in school that makes a difference...
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Did you name this just dying for horrible people to come comment on it? Get smarter faster.
Wouldn't be more accurate to associate these results with cultural groups rather than small biological differences, a.k.a. race? To me it seems like the groups in question are delimited in actuality by cultural groups not racial groups. This type of word formulations leads to thinking of the type: "Aaa you are asian, you must be a overachiever" - I don't see how race guarantees that...
Genetics gradually mold the cultural norms of given groups over time and vice versa. There’s undoubtedly a lot of complexity involved in attempting to determine how much of it is genetics and how much is environment. But a hell of a lot of it is genetics
The main problem with schools in America is the horrible cultivation of INTEREST in school subjects. We are so obsessed with grades and standardization that we end up cramming information down students' throats without ever teaching WHY it is fascinating or useful. If you can teach students to learn with passion and interest then you have succeeded.
John Luke Horan
"Telling" That's the thing though, teachers can't just "tell" a kid to learn something. They have to entertain children into a subject lest the subject will appear boring and pointless to someone whose learning it.
There's this culture of "Why would I learn it if it's not on the test?" in the public education system. The idea that learning has a purpose in and of itself, and can also be done purely for entertainment is completely baffling to so many students.
Soshi Nine so basically you want teachers to "beg" students to learn. They're paid to teach, basically with a salary of 30k-50k / year. and is learning for the teacher or for the student? If the student is willing to learn, the teacher will only facilitate the learning. If the student isn't, then let them learn the hard way later on in life. My old hs teacher literally told me she had to give points for students who actually take out paper and pencil to write stuff down otherwise they'd just do nothing in class. It's pathetic. Stop babying the student, and stop taking the blame off of them. If they're failing, thats their fault. Do they even care? i doubt it. High school is so easy that to do well, all you need is to do your homework.
Khoi Pham
"Beg"? Lol, no. I'm saying teachers should try their best to make a subject fun and entertaining. No one wants a teacher who speaks in a monotone voice to teach them math with just textbooks and worksheets. That's boring to anyone, adult or child and won't get anyone interested in the subject. And I don't know what highschool you went to, but the one I went to I couldn't just "do" my homework. I had to do it well, I had to spend time, a lot of time, and I had to be interested to spend so much time on it. You can never get time back, so whatever you're using your time on, it better be something you're interested in. Maybe that's one of the reasons kids don't do well, they know it'll be a waste of time since no one ever tried to get them interested in it or show them what's fun about a subject.
lol "alot" of time? I'm serious typical hs homework takes most 1 hour a day. And some even give you time to do it in class, and you don't get homework everyday. I've lived in wealthier neighborhood and borderline ghetto neighborhood in california. really the "school" you're talking about is not american public school.
0:56 and in Finland, there's no homework at all and the education standard is the highest in the world.
I love their system but sadly other country don't have the same one.
I hate homework I have good grades but I hate homework it's demotivating
@Brett Sylvester what is that
@Brett Sylvester There’s correlation to race but poor evidence for causation because what the race differences are really highlighting are differences attributable to different cultural attitudes rather than fundamental differences in capability due to racial genetics. This doesn’t mean that race isn’t relevant, after all, race and culture are correlated, but they are critically different things. It’s what some might call a subtle distinction but it nonetheless is a significant one because it leads to different conclusions about how to address educational and other problems. Essentially, this is in part what he’s driving at in the video.
@@f123raptor which explains why Nigerian Americans are some of the most educated ethnic groups along with Asian Americans. As a Nigerian I can testify that if you get an A your parents will be angry that it wasn’t an A+.
@@Junior-zf7yy typically the only Nigerians who are the way you described and the ones who emigrate to America. Which is a tiny majority of Nigerians. Vast majority of Nigerians are not that way.
Interesting and well spoken. I have an Asian friend whose son did not get into medical school. She said, at a social gathering "I guess he is just not smart enough." A marked cultural difference. My parents always contended that I was smart, even when my grades were abysmal.
Yes, but are you really smart? Or is it just feel good thing?
Who knows? I suspect it is just different thinking on how to encourage our children. Anecdotal, but I don't see a big difference in the achievements of her kids or mine.
coreycox2345 Smart has nothing to do with grades.
Jacob Hiller So correct.
coreycox2345 your parents were probably wrong if you got abysmal grades.
I got C's and D's in high school, and dropped out of college after a semester, but I hold a highly successful, high paying career. The education system is a pit of misery for anyone "different" like me.
Good point but salary
does not define a person. The measure of man is himself and not his salary
@@bastadimasta yep
aWESomes
@@bastadimasta I think that what Nick is referring to is, the common notion of what society generally defines as success - which includes a comfortable source of income.
You're so different bro wow, get fucking real would you?
I am white student of high school (civil engineering) in central Europe. My parrents don't give a damn about my grades, they barely know location of my school. Still I learn atleast hour/day and have A and sometimes B grades. I do it for my self because I understand that education will make you better, no matter what you study. More resistant against crowd control, more perspective, also you learn to learn better, which is very useful in life.
Yeah but look at the crowd, look at the people around you are they all doing like you do? I don't think so... It's their choice you could say but would you be happy if you don't give a f**k about them now and one day your son become like them only because you did nothing to change that?
I try to bring up the professional subject conversation in breaks between lessons but they just go away or stop listening or start playing their phones. Everytime some of them starts to learn others start asking him "What's wrong with you" and pull him back to how they behave. Even worse, teachers adapt to those students and put little effort into teaching us. They only teach what they must or less...
That's what I meant! I don't want any remote possibility that my son become like that or like me has to live with people like that around then I'm gonna care about this!
Be careful not to get too much in his way. I mean you should give him the opportunity for the best but not force him to it if he wants to live otherwise. I have no kids and Im on high school but I think Im right about this.
No but we have to show science and intelligent things are not only better than ignorance and swag we have to change the view that those things are boring, difficult and only for nerds because when you talk even with the most stupid person alone and in the right condition you can see that there is good in everybody... Why don't try to make it cool to show it?
I'm not sure you want to break generation after generation in the Japanese way, high rates of youth suicide, falling birth rates and mass social dysfunction. you have to temper the drive to succeed and the need to produce productive social members with wanting to raise happy, high functioning children that have enjoyed there childhood and are equipped to find love, raise a family, maintain friend groups and be generally well balanced.
I took that as an extreme from the video. I agree completely, it's too much. But we can take SOME things from them. :) Just as they can take some things from the west!
Fair enough. I admire their cultural reverence for teachers and education in general.
And from what I am seeing, younger teachers and being more engaging and calm with their students in Japan. So hopefully, they will finally take something from us :)
George Diggory I don't know if this has an effect on mathematics and science education, but the biggest problem I have with Japan is their collective idea that the only Japanese who are REAL Japanese are people of the Yamato race. That's the equivalent of saying the only real Americans are Caucasians and not only Caucasians but descendants of the original settlers of the 13 colonies. In our country, a second generation American who is of a minority race was able to be elected and re-elected President of the United States. In Japan, there are Koreans who have lived in that country for GENERATIONS who are denied Japanese citizenship. And these are people who look about the same as regular Japanese and are fluent in the Japanese language. Yet even they don't belong.
That's not simply a Japanese issue sadly. I have many friends here in HK (myself included), who have Hong Kong blood, but who appear white. We are regarded as being almost lower beings and are treated in... interesting ways depending on the industry. Some people value us greatly, others not so.
Japan also has a huge suicide rate because of this..
+Aya Bear That's a pretty big presumptuous leap. Of course you have proof that one is causal of the other? Or were you just being glib?
+Aya Bear Aokigahara
+Aya Bear Aokigahara
+John Thompson Well other countries that don't have such huge pressure on studies don't have huge suicide rate?
+TheGreatslyfer japan has a way different culture than america does so i think you'd have to take that into consideration as well... i mean im not an expert on japan or anything but i think they put a huge emphasis on family honor so like if you fuck something up you could completely shame your entire family's name in their community
Children should be encouraged to pursue their interests, not be tied to books for 10+ hours a day (unless studying books all day was their interest). Children are naturally curious, give them the resources to find the answers to their questions.
Tine Woodbe yo are 100% correct!
Orientals crave assignments and cognitive stimulation: mostly via iPhone videogames
I'm sorry, but there are plenty of subject areas that would lack so many more students if you didn't force students to take them throughout their public education.
yeah, let's let all the kids run free and do only what they want to do. I'm sure that will really prepare them for their first job. You know, where the boss expects you to show up on time, and do the work you've been assigned. Oh, and I'm sure 'picking flowers' will really set up your daughter to be a nasa astronaut, I mean who needs math for that...
@@bikebudha01 You're using a false dichotomy fallacy. Try again.
Being Hispanic, I tell you. Growing up in a Hispanic country, you either did well in school or you got in trouble. Me and everyone else.
I spent 0 hours per week doing homework and studying in high school. In fact, I didn't take a book home for the last 3.5 years I was in school, and I graduated with honors.
American high school is a joke.
It wasn't offered at my high school when I attended. In fact, I don't even think there was an honors-level physics class.
wow i wanna be an american now.....
SERIOUSLY EUROPE?
A Steel Cup No, you don't. Your school may be harder, but that just means they're actually teaching you something. We're just churning out cashiers and shelf-stockers over here in the US.
If you could spend 0 hours and still do well in school means that your school wasn't that great, and unfortunately we have too many schools like that in America.
***** Yes, yes I did. Still, much like Mitch, no homework was done.
This psychologists philosophy on education is fucking ridiculous. Implying more homework = better education. My god, what a joke. Lmao
making schools more challenging doesn't mean more homework. It just means actually expecting stuff from kids. i came to the US from Germany in the 7th grade and I was reviewing (math in particular) things i learned in Germany up until 9th grade. From my experience this is because US schools go after the slowest kid in the class, so the anybody above slowest kids is bored. This is bad because first, there will always be kids who will be lazy and complain about how much homework they have, and be slow in general so slowing down for the slowest will just keep going until education stagnates. Second the smartest kids in the class will have nothing to do in class which will either lead to them doing loads of extracurriculars (which is good) or doing dumb shit like drugs and partying.
Tobi Rebant I never implied more challenging mean't more homework, he did.
There's a lot of variables, how state ran schools are ran and so on and so fourth. Your argument holds very valid points that I agree with, but I don't think any of your points were being argued by this psychologist.
He nailed it when he compared Japan and America. My daughter in Japan spent a whole day in a challenging school and took home hours of homework. Then went to a cram school for hours where she got more homework. She would finally get to sleep around 11:00 pm or so after working through everything. But her friends were all doing the same thing and her family totally supported her. And she knew that she would face a very difficult college entrance exam (far harder than the SATs), where her knowledge and brains alone would allow her to get in or not.
She succeeded and is now studying in an elite University. Many Japanese kids don't succeed. But everyone is trying their best to excel, with no excuses.
If Americans aren't willing to put in the effort to keep up with other countries, than they won't be #1 for very long. There's no substitute for hard work, and we aren't doing our children any favors by coddling them.
I think the failure is not about having low expectations it is about failing to inspire kids. You might be able to force kids to study hard and the school results might get higher but at a price of stressed out students who hates school. South korea have the best school results but not many nobelprizes. I believe creating geniuses and truly great scientists like for example Richard Feynman can only be done thrugh learning with passion and joy and inspiration. I dont know but thats my view.
No amount of passion, joy, inspiration and learning will turn even superior students into a Feynman. That kind of genius is genetic. You're fooling yourself, and have bought into political correctness.
@@cicolas_nage I know what he's saying. I'm saying he's wrong. Intelligence is overwhelmingly genetic. No amount of good environments produce a Feynman. Feynman grew up in a working class neighborhood. The entire developed world has a better environment than Feynman today. We aren't sprouting geniuses at any greater rate. Can Korea lay claim to many geniuses in its entire history? Not really. No amount of scholarship produces a genius, it is an innate quality granted by genetic gifts. The political correctness I'm referring to is that you seem to be under the impression that any group of people have it within them genetically to produce genius. For further reference, see sub-saharan Africa. I understand political correctness just fine.
I would say
1. Values
2. Households
3. Positive influences
4 Negative influences
5. Educational quality
6. Having full knowledge on how it will impact your future
7. Distracting and disrespectful fellow students
8. Showing the values of their education
9. Personal problems.
10. MOTIVATION IS A MAJOR ONE
INTELLIGENCE
I've found the way the classroom is setup really screws up my interest. I'm not bad at school. I'm in the top 1% of my class of 614. The only reason I actually care is because of the idea that I'll need to get into a good college for a well paid and enjoyable job so I can live life comfortably. I loved math in elementary school, and they'd send the "Academically Talented" kids out of the classroom for a special class on reading and math (the two were separate) I had lots of fun in that math class, solving logic puzzles, learning base 5, using some theoretical math. But once I got to Jr. High the typical classroom format and lesson planning made math boring for me. It all became really rigid and dry. This increased in high school. Currently, the only class I enjoy for the way it is taught is my AP Gov class. Yeah, there's set content that we have to learn. But there isn't Lesson 1.1 or 7.4. There's chapter 9 on political parties. It's centered around a topic, not a concept that needs to be lectured about. Math class is just super boring for me in high school, but because I'm good at focusing I pay attention and get past the boredom. I'd just like it if we made the structure of lessons not boring. (and started at 9:00, when us teenagers' brains actually wake up) P.S. All homework does for me is make me stressed out. I've fantasized how nice an inverse classroom would be. Do the lesson at home, start class with questions and then work during class, occasionally asking the teacher a question, and maybe the teacher will explain the question and the answer to the whole class to further understanding.
Tl;dr Class structure makes things boring and arduous for me; I'd rather have something a little more open and less rigid.
+SpecialJ11
you got it inside you, man!
just dispose over the situation...
propose this to your teacher, and make your classmates luv it.
be kind, honest and cool about it.
heads up
easy
+SpecialJ11 I can really relate to your post. In 3rd grade they took a certain group of students including myself and had a teacher from our high school teach us some more advanced things (I remember a lot of geometry, learning how to use a compass and protractor, etc).
I thought it funny when I got to the part when you mentioned AP American (I assume?) Government. I'm taking my final for that class tomorrow, and if you had told me before school started that it would become my favorite class I would have thought you were joking. That's exactly what happened though. Great teacher, content that focuses less on teaching facts than it does on teaching reasoning and ideas, differing points of views: all made for an awesome class.
I actually have some experience with the "inverse classroom." I took Calc 3 at my local community college this semester, and that was the method used by my professor. It definitely made for a better learning experience because 1) I didn't want to feel left out in conversation the next day, so I made sure to read the material, and 2) class time was focused on the more difficult, interesting parts of the lesson (another great teacher helps, too!). That being said, homework was essential because the proportion of in-class time relative to out-of-class time was much smaller than any high school course (we only met 3 days a week for a semester).
name That sounds great. I wouldn't mind homework that was more about learning and less about reinforcing a concept. Although I think only meeting 3 days a week would be pretty hard. Then again, that's how college classes are setup, so maybe it wouldn't be so bad.
College doesn't mean success as they want you to believe. I have friends that are waiting tables with degrees in engineering cause our gov would rather hire foreigners
Helps if you read more than one book
For sure!
i am from india and what he is saying is correct. we have parents pressure and higher standards . but sometimes that same thing stops who are not good at academics to progress. its considered that if you dont study nothing can good happen to your life, i agree in small manner that basic education trains your mind overall not in specific subjects. but if you are someone who wants to go in art or sports it is considered lower standard than someone who is going for higher education.
yeah the prob is there is too much belief in book smart education.. being good at calculus is very very important if you want to be a scientist or an engineer but not if your good at being a plumber or builder, they are important to. Income = supply and demand. in Australia tradesmen generally make more money than accountants because there skill are needed. we need to rethink what we and kids to learn at school.
There are a couple of problems I have, not with the study, but what seems to be implied. First of all, 4-5 hours of homework a day is FAR too much for a high school student. I don't think giving them more homework is an answer to anything except for the question, "how can we put more stress on children?".
I also question the idea that the end goal should be to scare children into getting better grades. The end goal should be how to engage students to WANT to learn. I was so disinterested in school that I went to a third of my classes in my final semester in high school. I didn't need to have more pressure put on me. I needed to be more engaged. That came in university, when I was able to take more classes that interested me.
***** Very good point.
I think too often we don't include happiness in a measurement for success.
The four to five hours was just an example and not what every child should attempt to do. "I needed to be more engaged" well part of that is on the individual being taught, you have 10 to 30 kids in a classroom and it's just impossible to make sure every one of them is engaged on a individual basis. I doubt that all the students in Japan want to be in class but clearly they still get better grades.
Yes, let them watch TV instead, because that's SOOOO much more important! Frikkin dolt highdough!
I was in a so-called "semi private" experiment in high school for my 2 senior years. The amount of homework did NOT change, nor did the material taught. We hit a WALL when we arrived in college. At 17, ALMOST 30 YEARS AGO, I was on a news show saying we weren't challenged enough, my classmates said the same and I STILL say that.
I spent most of my high school evenings watching fucking TV shows, because my homework for the evening was DONE before supper. What a goddammed waste. If I'd HAD the right habits established in high school, then I would have had NO problem in college. I barely achieved a Bachelor's degree in University, thanks to my lousy LAZY highschool education.
el flesh You think there's only a choice between homework and TV? I'm assuming you've never played sports or had interests? And you call me a dolt.
highdough Lunchtime is for sports. So is the first class of the day. Like I had in my school. DOLT. And that is exactly what you'll wind up being without enough homework time.
Why some races outperform others "IN SCHOOLS"
+Amit Maharjan so true
Intellectually*
+scabies No...
Nasloxieh Rorsxez Reality...
+Amit Maharjan "and life"
"Why Some Races Outperform Others". Blatant click bait.
You'r trippin
Yes but for good reason. It’s an opportunity to teach something to a person who is clicking here for the wrong reasons.
@@tdns01 Maybe. It's of significance that the title refers "races" of which, I've learned, only one is left. Us. The Homo Sapiens-Sapiens. The rest died off. The guy refers to "ethnicities" which is much more relevant to the topic at hand.
It should have included '....in the United States'.
@@ludakriss9094 So your issue is a semantic one. Relatively unimportant to the point.
Sorry to burst the bauble, but ethnicity is not the problem, the culture is. If you raise an Asian in a normal american way you will get the same results. It's the culture that pushes them...race is irelevant.
Race is relevant. Maybe it's not the main thing, but it exists and we all see it. Denying it is neither intelligent nor progressive. It's dogmatic, moronic and destructive.
Cambrian Smith First off let's start with some little science.
www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/are-there-different-races.
And the most noticeable: “What the facts show is that there are differences among us, but they stem from culture, not race.”
Also saying that ignoring racial differences is destructive? I'm sure you didn't meant to say like this buy that is a racists thing to say. Also i am very interested in your theory, could you also provide some links to some studies?
Nicolae Andrei Acknowledgement that race exists is not racism. If you acknowledge the differences of a pit bull and a chihuahua, which are separated by 10,000 years of evolution, yet can breed and are the same species, are you then a racist or immoral? No, clearly not. Honesty is not a hurtful act, it's necessary. Yes, though, I agree culture is probably about as important as race, but genes inform culture as culture informs genes. They both influence one another. Lying in order to propagate a political view, as our disgusting professors and elites do, is not a humanitarian act. It has caused and will cause a great deal of negativity and suffering. They enjoy this because we are easier to rule that way.
Nicolae Andrei Anyway yes there is quite a lot on the subject, but I'm not describing any theory, I'm talking about logical tautology. Race exists because evolution exists. When you have 10,000 or 50,000 years of special environment and evolutionary pressure new traits arise and we pretend that's not the case in order to not hurt feelings and to keep our jobs, be in line with the fascist elites. There are real differences in groups of populations which give them distinctive traits often, it is only deliberate and extensive denial of society which makes this seem counterintuitive.
Cambrian Smith Racial equivalency in the end is the political view that whites should be held accountable for not making all races equal. Well, there were populations of Asians who had the GDP of Ghana yet still tested higher than average whites on IQ tests in that state of poverty and lack of development. Am I, as a racist white, also responsible for causing that situation? It gets to be beyond stupid and ridiculous, if you look at it this way. Whites do not not perpetuate black behavior or Asian behavior, or anyone else's. Individuals do.
My peers DID make fun of me for raising my hand in class. My answer to a teacher's question on the third day of ninth grade followed me for the entire year. People were quoting it at me in the halls to upset me. And it did, because at the time I wasn't aware of how little their opinions were worth.
Now that I have children of my own, it bothers me to talk with my daughter about school and discover that she too is locked behind a gate of what her peers think of her. She is bored in school; she doesn't want to stand out. She tells us that she feels stupid, that she IS stupid. She lies about whether or not she has been given homework. I have to wonder, as an adult who has experienced this sort of thing and who has a strong enough memory to recall it, if it really comes down to peer pressure singularly. If so, then perhaps I'm better off enrolling my child in one of several online homeschooling options wherein she can learn at her own pace, review subjects whenever she wants/needs to, be done with whatever she has fully understood instead of spending weeks of additional time on things she knows for the benefit of other students, and never have to deal with other children making her feel inadequate, or making fun of her for choosing to separate herself from their collective mediocrity.
I went to a black and Latino school for one year and every class they had a party instead of paying attention. They sat on top of the desks and threw books and threw paper at kids and at the teacher. They walked in and out of class as they liked. I was scared and basically tried to listen to the teacher who basically was talking to 2 or 3 kids. No one could do anything because they would be accused of racism. No Asian or European country would tolerate that. Horrible experience of my life!! Traumatizing!!
Then you have the Asian Americans like me who are "average". We get made fun of for being stupid, but downplayed when we do good. Thanks society! Thank god I don't have tiger parents.
Then that must be why you're average. You didn't fear enough the consequences of not performing well.
Yea, I got 92% in one science test (my lowest this year) and I got so pissed I missed first placed by 0.5% lmfaoo.
When we do well*. Sorry, was too tempting. :p
I am Asian and my results are always great but those stereotypes like strict parents, peer pressure, high demands don't apply to me. Maybe my parents taught me differently, they know how to provoke my curiosity and lead me to find my own answer, that is how I got so deeply into science and technology and most importantly, learning(not study). I now speak 5 languages, learning part of computer science course on my own, graduating Mechanical Engineering in Germany and received an offer to further study in Japan. I think that push from parents can only carry you so far, it is up to yourselves to go further and beyond.
Parental expectation is the most important factor, and the role model served by parents is just as important.
I expect my son to be a straight A student, because I know the only reason he wouldn't is because he's not trying hard enough. My wife and I both graduated as the top students in our schools, and my son understands the importance of education. He knows that we unconditionally love him, but we expect him to do the right thing.
It's a cultural bias, not a genetic or biological one.
By the way, my parents and my wife's parents were both poor. None of them could speak any English. I didn't speak any English until I was 14 years old. Socioeconomic status does not have much impact on achievement. Expectation does.
The big question is why there are such big cultural differences in the USA based primarily on race. When I visited the USA, I noticed that I could often guess the race of a person based on how they spoke, without or before seeing them. From Miami to Buffalo to Boston to L.A. and S.F.
There seems to be a very deep cultural divide between racial groups, and if you look at elections and how they subdivide the electorate, it seems very accepted.
youngsatchmo
Good point. Totally agree.
Screw the degree. I'm just going to teach them that learning is fun.
If they want to build their own companies, fine. If they want to be humble artists, fine.
As long as they are intelligent and happy, they are on the right path.
If they burn through all their cash, then there's a problem.
Failure to plan for the future is worse than all the F's in the world.
The system is so damn rigid, repetitive and boring-- if my offspring get at least one D per semester, I'll want an explanation, but I won't punish them over it. I may even reward them.
We'll build a rocket together in celebration of their failure to fit in with a system hell-bent on turning them into obedient, soul-less robots.
An average white person will never be as tall as the average west african it's genetics and evolution.
That peer pressure thing is very true. I used to go to a bad school, then I switched to a good school. At the bad school, everyone, including the teachers, were like, "It doesn't matter as long as you pass." They told me not to take school seriously, so I didn't. Then, at the good school, there was a much different environment. I went from getting D's and F's to getting almost all B's, and at least a C in every class.
Don't send your children to bad schools.
Wow. I am Asian mom, and he nailed it. I teach my kids, "Respect your teacher, and you are privileged to sit in the classroom and learn. If you are suck at learning, the result will come back to you. The world is NOT a free world. The world we live runs by free will and responsibilities!
He is discussing American education specifically, not other countries. While we were building an embassy in one of the African countries, the children near the area would come over at night and sit in the illuminated area of the street light and studied as long as they could. When Africans come over to the U.S.A, rarely will you see them getting under a 4.0. They have to fight for education and take it seriously, not to mention are happy to be able to learn. At 31 I am still a slightly crappy and lazy student. At least I now know and have been working on changing my behavior.
In the Netherlands, I experience peer pressure to do my homework. If you forgot to do your homework or didn't study for a test, you didn't want others to find out about it. That was rather embarassing.
We would just pretend we were too subversive to bother and everyone would revel in slackerdom
This reminds me that when I lived with my aunt's family. One day, my little cousin came home from school and talked to her mother with huge excitement - saying "Mom, I got 95% on my math today". My aunt answered: "How come you didn't get 98%"? I felt really bad for her.
When I was little, my parents were very busy and hands-off. As a consequence, I didn't try very hard. I also got into a bit of mischief even though I'm a fairly smart, nerdy guy.
I found myself doing the bare minimum to keep my parents off my back and my life has suffered immensely because of this.
I'm not saying that more stress on kids is an answer, but maybe better parenting in general would help most people.
Encouragement and care go hand in hand with higher expectations. High expectations without care and attention just makes someone stressed and depressed.
About the standardized testing. In Canada there is not very much of it. To my recollection, the only standardized tests I've ever taken were in grades 3 and 6, and there weren't really any consequences for the students doing poorly. The purpose was more to check on how well the schools were doing their jobs of teaching us.
First of all, parents have the biggest impact. Second of all, education needs to be rethought. We are treated kids as if they all have the same brain. Teachers should be finding out what interests kids and allowing them to learn this way. Every should have a basic understanding of all subjects, but at a certain point they should be able to branch off into more specialized subjects depending on their interests, and not just this, but the problems they solve and the way they learn should be individualized to their interests. But this also screws the idea of a performance test, and I agree with that. There should NOT BE ONE TEST FOR EVERYONE. We are all different at our core, we think differently. Just because one kid gets 92% on their math final, and another gets 70% doesn't necessarily mean they studied less, or suck more at math, it might just be the questions they were asked and the way the questions were written and presented did not reflect their interests and way they go about solving problems, as much as the other one. The education system is very dated, it needs to be revised for the modern world. Just like the copyright laws based on analog media.
4-5 hrs homework per day is crazy T__T
You dishonor your family!!!
+aldi404 YOU DOCTOR YET?!
TALK TO ME WHEN YOU DOCTOR!
+aldi404 If homework sucks, more engaging homework needs to be designed just like better tests need to be designed.
This would be easier with national standards in play, allowing experts to work on less tests overall, making each one better.
+aldi404 Welcome to the life of a chemistry/physics major!
+aldi404 Really?I thought this was standard in highschool, especially in senior years. Well at least in Australia that is...
In Japan there is no homework. All work is done at school, and kids even often opt to stay late. There is a concrete separation between school and home life, just like for work when you become an adult. Kids also have to clean at school, as there are no janitors, which helps teach them to clean up and take care of their stuff.
I'm curious as to what would happen if we made education more accessible to adults
This is starting to happen now with free sites like coursera.org
Thank you!
23cokebottles
Your welcome!
23cokebottles Another good source to consider is iTunesU, accessible through the iTunes store. There is some good stuff on there, and free.
None of this stuff is accredited though.
I believe the fire is lit within us when we have a well-trained, passionate teacher who treats teaching as an art form rather than simply a job. They are extremely rare it seems, but I can tell you from my own experience that this makes all the difference in the world. For example, search for Professor Walter Lewin here on TH-cam. He is absolutely incredible at teaching physics.
+TH-camExplorer The teachers that I learned the most from were the ones that inspired me to learn. Coincidently or not, the one teacher was incredibly intelligent, and simply didn't care much about us. He came to school, taught, you learned or you didn't, you fill in the rest kind of guy. You ask a question and he'll tell you and keep explaining it until you understood, but past that he had this nonchalant about himself. The other great teacher I had was so humble and loveable. He would just harp on us how important having character was in life and how his life was going (he ran an alpaca farm in addition to teaching) and how blessed he is to teach us and other people he has worked with that were really blessed. I didn't learn much math, despite him being a math teacher, but I learned a lot about people and how to live a fulfilling life.
+TH-camExplorer I totally agree with that!
You are absolutely correct!!! The really good teacher is the one who *inspires* students to learn more. But the current mentality in US schools is that the "good" teacher is the one who "entertains" students. Complete bullshit! I have known *college instructors* who actually bring guitars to class and just sing to the students so he can get good student evaluations and keep his job. The really good teachers by contrast are constantly maligned by academic administrators, the great majority of whom are idiots.
For me, it was parental pressure to make sure I became either a physician, pharmacist, lawyer, engineer, scientist. I ended up becoming a pharmacist. I was told the benefits of good grades would be a prestigious career, more money, bigger house, driving a supercar, and having woman flock to me. I was told the consequences of not getting good grades would be a shitty career ("do you want to be a fucking taxi driver"), no one would want to marry you, live in poverty.
The result so far: I do have a prestigious career, I make decent money, I have a shit-ton of student loans that are hindering my ability to buy a home or a nice car, and I still haven't found someone to be with.
Learning is NOT cramming and memorizing only to regurgitate the information for a test and never to use it again.
This was my high school and I did well only due to my exceptional memory but others in my class were “victims” of this type of “education”.
I actually didn’t learn until I went to college.
My wife did exceptionally well in high school (skipping a grade) but did poorly (b average), her words not mine, in college due to the fact that she never learned how to develop proper study techniques while in high school.
Our daughter goes to her mom’s high school and does very well and when school officials wanted us to allow our daughter to skip a grade, we declined. We learned the lessons of her mom doing this and graduating at 16 and not being properly prepared for college. All of her core classes (Math, English, science and social science) are either AP or honors and one grade above her current grade and is taking the fourth year of a foreign language in her third year of school. Our daughter feels that even though the pace of learning is fast she is able to handle the course load with a moderate to difficult level of effort.
Kids in the west are not as focused as eastern kids. I went to asia and saw how driven they are for success, and it starts at a very early age. Education can be fun, but when you have kids, here, who like to defy teachers, and spend time more on facebook and make a big deal with proms and parties then you have lost kids with low priorities in life, once you re in the job market one sees how competitive we are towards one another.. I know i generalize a lot here, but in asia kids don t waste time on facebooking, texting as much as we do , they go to classes, respect their teachers and elders much more than in the west. , They study hard and do homeworks even on weekends. I saw it for myself so don t even try to prove me otherwise. Have a nice day :)
Part of the problem is dietary deficiency for poor kids. If the family can't afford decent food and/or none of the family adults have an understanding of nutrition and the kitchen arts and/or the access to basic kitchen equipment (refrigerators, stoves, ways to clean up afterwards, etc...), and/or access to food supplies (i.e. no grocery stores or farms within traveling ability) then children can't get the nutrition that they must have for mental and physical growth.
Intelligence and ethnicity have a correlation this is a part of biology. Throwing more money out to a school or saying that it's because of poverty is a complete farce.
Also, IQ is genetic. Some ethnic groups naturally have a higher IQ just as some are naturally more athletic. This is something no one wants to talk about because we've been chastised into believing that talking about this or even thinking it is racist. The sooner we accept this part of diversity, the sooner we can do the right things for all kids rather than trying to force all kids to be the same.
It is racist
" Why some races ." .......I thought we were all one race ?
Dammit back to school I go .
If you go to school 8 hours, spend 45 minutes getting to school, 45 minutes going home, and 5 hours doing homework at night that is...14.5 hours a day. That's 9.5 hours to sleep, to get ready for school, to eat dinner, to eat breakfast, to exercise, etc. That's insane to expect that of a child.
Right? 4 hours of homework every day? Damn.
I think most struggling students aren't spending 5 hours a day on homework.
I think he was spot on at the end when he mentions that teaching to the test wouldn't be bad if we designed better test. There's so much potential there,.
I am from Spain. In my country the level of an average student is below the level of an european one. And the biggest responsable of this data is the educational system here in Spain. The highschool is so tough and exerts high pressure on the students. As a result, most of them quit or only worry about passing instead getting high grades and learning what is mean to be learnt by them.
So, what this guy is saying is to put more pressure on our kids to get better grades, tell them that A+ is the only acceptable score, just do it for the sake of doing it? I didn't hear anything about directing kids and young adults towards an individualized goal that they can be passionate about, strive towards, and thus elevate themselves because they can understand the reason for the process. Challenging a kid for someone else's ideal is the root of failing education system's, not the lack of challenge. Band-aid solutions is all I hear from this guy.
Pressure is definitely key. Humans are remarkable at adapting to situations/dying when they fail to adapt correctly to a situation. The harder students are pushed, the more of them can/will die, but the more of them will succeed as well. Social Darwinism is the answer to a surprising number of problems, as long as you're willing to disregard some moral objections.
***** You are literally too stupid to insult, good day sir.
panduhfight ha ha ha well said
***** I completely agree 100%. Unless I was able to band together with a guild/party, I would certainly not survive in a social darwinist society, pale, thin, anime-loving nerd that I am. However, I view myself as a defect of evolution for a variety of reasons, and an idea is burgeoning in my mind that I deserve to be selected out. I know some who would benefit from a social darwinist society, and possibly even become warlords, as social darwinism requires a very special form of quasi-anarchy in which no government can interfere. I stalkerishly looked at your channel feed, and found that you liked a vid by Anonymous. Surely, you too, believe in anarchy. I now pose you a question: do you believe that you should be selected out, or do you believe that you could survive an anarchist social darwinist society? If the Darwinist revolution comes to you, will you be prepared?
***** I am very happy that you possess so many learned and inherited traits would help guarantee your survival. I see the value of heterogeneity. On that subtopic, do you think h. sapiens will split into 2 or more species in the future, especially when we begin to colonize other planets, possibly even other galaxies, and our gene pools become semi-isolated from one another. Although space travel may become faster which would allow gene pools on Titan, Pluto, and Luna to de-isolate, as far as we know, light speed is the galactic speed limit, and galactically separated gene pools could only mix as fast as we could move around the galaxy: the speed of light. What are your thoughts?
Making school more challenging is going to make the problem worse. We're disinterested because 97% of the stuff we "learn" in high school is pointless and has no real educational value. We have to read entire books in order to understand a simple concept. School should be about learning to become yourself, how to become an adult and how to understand things. Today all you need is good retention and you'll be set in high school. You can be the dumbest kid in school but as long as you've got good retention for useless information you'll be grade A. I don't think that's right, and I don't think old people who went to high school decades ago should be saying anything about today's schooling system, because they clearly have no idea what they're talking about.
in asia we do not use our time do our "homeworks" for 5 hours, its a misunderstanding which western societys has, most students in asia only spent 30 minutes for actual homework, but everything else whether its extra study, practicing an instrument or all other stuff that requires work is framed under this expression of "homework" although its not actual homework
If there are obvious and well documented physical differences between races why couldn't there be mental differences as well? The root of the trouble seems to be valuing human beings based on their economic value rather than less tangible spiritual qualities. It is indeed possible to have a more egalitarian society but it requires that we become less competitive and value each individual where they are at.
Of course we aren't challenging our kids. We have to play to the lowest-common-potential in order to "standardize" and achieve more uniform results. This is an obvious problem because we are breeding non-achievers where those rare individuals have less potential to develop. Thanks US school system. We love you.
It's not the humans that have changed it is the cultures
wat.
It seems that most of you are missing the point went he talked about 4-5 hours a day. The point is that it's an indicator that students in some other countries put clearly more effort into their education. And it seems obvious that more effort will generally translate into better results
Having friends from all other "races" and I know there's no difference between me and them, it's also what's terrifying to me that people of "my race" or anyone would say that other group of people are inferior in terms of intelligence.
Oyy vey, what about the jews?
+Realthx ...apply ourselves: that's really all!!!
+Realthx The Jews did the study. What's the problem?
+Eyemallfunkedup they weren't paid
+Realthx the jews are pretty linguistically smart. Good with words, numbers, thats why they do so good in out left brain society.
+Realthx "Jew" is not a race.
Too much emphasis is placed on the idea that you should know something (eg. chemistry, calculus, english, etc...). There's not enough placed on HOW to understand the subject. Students are given a stack of books, and are expected to acclimate that knowledge as though it were some magic trick. Learning the techniques and drills designed to illuminate that subject is much more effective in the process of learning something. Teach someone to fish, and they will eat for the rest of their lives.
If nothing they've done in 30 years has been effective, then why do they keep teaching the same things?! Children don't learn well by reading books or doing worksheets & tests. Kids learn through imitation and experience, not by what they read or what they're told. Give kids ways to experience what they're learning about; they'll learn easier and faster.
Here in Indonesia, i experienced about 2 hrs homework when i was in kindergarten.
3-5 hrs is normal at elementary up to high school.
1 day is not enough in university or college.
When the teacher failed to complete the teaching during allotted curriculum schedule, they just add home work to make it up. They don't care when the other teacher also doing the same thing, and we student is fully booked.
And now to make it worse, our new education and culture minister want to increase the schooling time. Parent has no value in education, and this would help them to focus to work. Also, scientific, and even our language lessons are shortened in exchange for some kind of mental, character education because of recently political disturbances occurred within the country.
Sucks.
i think we should learn from countries like finland and singapore for education. both very opposite styles of education but producing pretty good results. if only we could mix the educating styles from the top countries in terms of education to get the most ideal one
There are so many other variables to consider. Finland and Singapore do not have the same or even comparable levels of DIVERSITY as the USA does.
numbersandsense Diversity in terms of racially, religiously or economically? or is it based on level of intelligence? I think investing more money on education and helping income family to get access to tuition and better schools rather than on wars, having higher standards for teacher and revising our syllabus to be solely on evidence instead of religion can easily overcome the "diversity" and improve the education system.
I was taught by the Finnish education system. It is absolutely brilliant. Teachers are great for the most part, our curricula are quite loosely defined, so they can, within a certain limit, decide what and how they educate. Children are treated equally; those with special needs are taken care of and made sure that they get the same necessary tools for being a member of society. The only gripe I have is that there is no real incentive. There's no fear of becoming nothing. There's no special prize for the best one. Low pressure is a two-edged sword, and for every 1000 kids that collapse under pressure, there is a handful who crave for it to function.
You have to remember that Finland and Singapore uses very different educational principles. I prefer the Finish system myself.
***** less strict and crazy studying and more about having good teachers having fun and learning effectively. search it up :-) its really impressive
I was always ashamed of my intelligence, creativity, and general "nerdlyness" all through out school. I was big and strong and wanted to be liked by the "cool kids" from grade 1 to grade 12. It always negatively affected my school work. Those kids i wanted to be cool for, are meth and heroine addicts now, in jail, or dead. I am attending a UC. If I would have got this message at age 12 my life would have been completely different.
You probably wouldn’t have listened back then
@@hkchan1339 lol no probably not. And I think I did get that message in some fashion from my parents. And yet they couldn’t keep me from wanting to spend time with my peers over school work
I grew up in a poor household, I'm currently finishing my PhD in the biological sciences. The idea that being poor has a dramatic impact upon your educational achievement is I believe a small part of the puzzle. The larger part is that the less intelligent people tend to earn less and have more children than more intelligent people, resulting in a lowering of the average IQ across the population. As intelligence has a strong genetic component it would make sense that a larger proportion of poorer people are less intelligent, if they were smart then they could study and do well.
Sorry but I am from a poor family and it didn't hold me back. And as someone who grew up around lots of other poor people, I can tell you that many of them are indeed below average in the brains department.
I think it’s more a matter of regression to the mean. My daughter was an average student in high school, but once she got to college she really took off academically and now she’s almost through her masters. That’s where environment really comes into play.
@@ccreel64
Then how do you explain people like myself who excelled in a terrible school? Of my year I believe there were maybe 10 who went to university, that's out of hundreds of kids.
There are also plenty of kids who attended private schools and yet they don't get far in education, dropping out of the first year of university.
Sometimes people coast through high school and then work hard at college and university because they have to, or they develop life goals which require a certain standard of education.
4 to 5 hours a week? I live in Ireland and I a minimum of 3hours of written work a day. Not including study
+Strawburry643725 agreed im irish too and america has a million times worse illiteracy than us in europe our education level is way better
+John Moe The unfortunate truth--I see it in my HS as well.
+John Moe You'll probably get called out as being racist, but dems da facts
Statistics aren't racist though
+John Moe You're just ignorant and racist, in the rich suburbs where i live the exact same issues exist and the student body is primarily white.
This brings up a lot of interesting questions. I've always be a strong believer in exposure and in genetics. I grew up very humble, in a first generation household of 9. I came from a family of bricklayers and it was a trade I was destiny to become a part of if it was for my chance encounter with a theatre course in high school which completely changed my paradigm.
I had horrendous grades in middle school and high school and I was labelled an "at risk student." Living in a poor predominately Mexican community which at the time was infested with gangs, drugs and an inadequate school system my chances were slim.
After my first live performance in a high school play I was completely transformed. At the time I had a 54 grade point average in my sophomore year and in a span of two years I bumped it to a 69.9 which was enough to graduate.
So what were the factors of my success considering my circumstances? In my personal experience it came down to three things.
1. My love of reading and cultivating myself
2. Finding a passion and attaching education to it (theatre connected me to philosophy, psychology, literature, art history, photography which finally lead me to my career as an independent film producer & filmmaker)
3. My parents strong work ethic and sense of pride
I'm sure I am a rare case but exposure is an important factor.
You're not a rare case, you're typical. Schooling approaches that deeply engage from the level of passion and occupation will swiftly bring up graades.
There's an elephant in the room, and his name is genetics. Obviously it's only one of the factors, but it's not even mentioned here.
its not really genetics, low income predominately black schools have outperformed white schools in some instances.
www.usnews.com/news/articles/2009/12/17/many-schools-find-ways-to-close-the-achievement-gap
also, there are more genetic differences within races than between them
I think you mean culture, don't be so lazy to blame is on genetics.
I'm half Chinese half Scottish born and raised in Scotland I see things from both white and Asian sides. I think both genetics and culture play a role in the grades students get. On one hand I have a parent that says do your best and on the other a parent that says you did good next time do better. From a genetics standpoint I don't think I am smarter than white people I just value different subjects more like science,math etc. As from what I have seen from the majority of white people I've met they value such things as sports and english and drama etc. Whereas the majority of Asian people I've met are like me they find ALL sports utterly boring and couldn't give a toss about english, And drama. Fuck drama!
***** Maybe, from what I've seen at least.
Joshua GC Wong You're not born what that, it's your culture and how and where you were raised and the influences of your family and surroundings, and once you matured you usually find your own way.
I think it's a bit ridiculous that we never learned about cognitive bias or what fallacies are. Reasoning is very important. It's about the evidence.
We all know the truth, we all know the truth ...
+Clear mind
Roses are red
violets are blue
god is superfluous
and so are you.
As a Japanese man, I became worse at school after the death of my grandfather, I went to college and university because I was told to and right now I'm unemployed. A person's race does not define who they are, I find this video grossly offensive.
The purpose of his study is to be a politically correct cope for certain races.
Can you please rename this video to be "Why some cultures outperform others"?
The optics of the video probably attract a certain malignant element of society, which hopefully with the help of this video they are put on the right path. Of course this only applies to people who are on the fence, not the ones who have made up their mind already. Hard to break the feedback loop of irrational thinking, more cost efficient to educate the ones stlll have a chance at it
The point of the study is to make everyone feel that if they work hard enough in school, they will be as smart as their peers.
@@sophocles2083 interesting point of view. thanks for sharing.
I think the video is inappropriately named. He spoke about how different cultures view the disadvantages of failing in school. There is no reason to think that skin color and ethnicity/culture are linked.
Almost every Big Think title is sensationalistic
Ryno Jaffey no that's not even remotely true. Skin complexion has fine nothing to limit the variety of distinct cultures and ethnicities in the world of humanity. Skin complexion is still not the primary factor that makes most of those cultures distinct from one another. Language,religion, ancestry and heritage yes, skin complexion, or any other biology? no.
In Asia you have to get A's live the same quality of live as an American that get's C's. In Asia you have to work harder for less.
+Tom Tom I'm Asian, I've lived there and I've talked to many Asians including my Asian parents and grand-parents and a lot of my family members who have grown up there. I've also seen the lives educated and uneducated people who live in Asia. Look at it this why, in Asia you need to have a university degree to be able to afford a 2 -3 bedroom apartment and a Toyota Corolla and to educate your children and that's not cumming until your in your late 30s or early too late 40s. If your lucky you will have had parents who where rich enough to educated you and put you through university or college, other wise you wouldn't make it. Job that require little too no education pay little too no money and there's little to no government support for the poor like well fair over there either, while the rich only care to exploit the poor.
***** what do you mean "So no then"? go see for yourself.
+Tom Tom This is NOT an anecdote and I wasn't asserting, there are literally billions of people in Asia that experience this everyday and I don't need articles to back me up. I know the truth, but you can believe whatever you want.
+Tom Tom
No, I haven't spoken too billions of people, I don't need to. This is not an assertion nor is it based on my experience alone, the evidence is everywhere in Asia, that is why Asians push their kids so hard because that's what they saw when they where living in Asia.
And by the why Asians being smart is not a rule, it's a stereo type, but like I said you can believe whatever you want.
+Zohirul Islam Jewel How come my Asian experience is different from yours? I am from Singapore (one of the most affluent nations in the world) and over here 1 in 4 is a millionaire. Average household income exceeds $10,000/month. How many countries in the world has such high average household income? Other affluent Asian nations are all East Asian nations like Japan, South Korea and Taiwan.
People it's really not about race and ethnicity. Into about who tries and who doesn't. Honestly success is about who wants it the most.
What are the factors influences your drive or motivation?...I would say your environment.
876beauty Yeah. The environment is the most important thing at first. Those first like five or six you're not at school are fairly important, I would say.
876beauty Sure. Unfortunately, your "ability" in the intelligence department has a heritability factor of .7, which is why there is a huge correlation between IQ scores and both academic and work success and this correlation is why IQ tests are valued. If there existed good tests for "motivation" and "drive", I'm sure that would be employed as well.(There does exist attempts to measure such things, but as far as I understand they don't have much predictive power due to it being obvious what you need to answer on a test to be a "motivated" or "driven" person)
ThatCamel104
_"Yeah. The environment is the most important thing at first. Those first like five or six you're not at school are fairly important, I would say."_
Actually, it isn't. Unless you're facing criminal neglect or radical malnutrition, the bulk of your IQ scores are independent of the environment. That is, it doesn't matter much given general western standard of living as a minimum baseline. The heritability factor is about .7 so what matters is mostly who your parents were(biologically - identical twin studies separated at birth are used to produce the heritability numbers).
Attempts at early intervention for kids in disenfranchised areas also pretty consistently gives poor results. You can raise their IQ, by such means, but not by a lot.
Well said sir, if a person is held accountable for their actions and the result, they will improve themselves.
The headline is misleading: Steinberg isn't speaking of races, but ethnic groups, and he concludes that parental expectations and guidance are vital to a child's educational achievement and that those expectations differ in each ethnic group. That view has merit. Kids without two parents and kids whose parents don't care if they achieve are both at a disadvantage. But badgering kids to excel or forcing kids to do many hours of homework is not the answer. Kids excel when they want to learn. The American education system is run for the convenience of teachers; it is very poor at motivating kids.
Motivated kids become autodidacts; they teach themselves, regardless of family income or ethnicity. The suburban nerd who learned computer programming on his own, dropped out of school, and became a billionaire is the stuff of legend. But we forget the black inner city kid who drops out of school and becomes a multi-millionaire running a drug distribution empire. One is legal, one is illegal, but succeeded on their own terms. The kids in both cases were highly motivated and demonstrated greater ingenuity and a type of practical learning that is alien to the American education system. They learned what they wanted to learn.
We waste billions on educational buildings, equipment, and teachers. Throwing money at the problem is counter-productive. Instead, we should re-design the education system. We should motivate students to excel by allowing them to do something of real value to society. We should adopt the Wright Brothers as a model: they never went to college, but taught themselves calculus and pioneered the principles of aerodynamics while they ran a bicycle shop. Instead of incarcerating students in glorified daycare centers, we should develop a hybrid system of formal classes and practical internships of the student's choosing and pay them for what they achieve. Nothing motivates any child better than success and the praise of his parents and peers and the reward of a little hard cash. Instead, American schools teach students how to fail. We don't need better kids. We need a better system of education.
We tend to see human development only for the last 100-150 years, but to answer why one race is better than the other, we need to stretch the timeline to prehistoric time. Human development is a product of food, geolocation and social, these variables are basically the things that shape human genes, creativity, determination, confidence and social relationships.
I was with him up until the standardized testing. Didn't we start falling once we started all this standardized testing?
Yes, testing took place of education since it became a quantitative measurement of a school's success but it doesn't take into account other variables like parents involvement in the child's education,having the proper school utensils etc.
It’s kind of an oversimplification to say testing = bad. It’s all in the details, in the US we did a lot of stupid things. For one, we failed to institute valid national standards. For another, decided to start trying to incentivize schools to boost their testing standards by allocating more money to schools who performed higher on testing - a strategy that totally backfired because schools with lower scores are usually in underprivileged areas where they need more resources for activities and programs to help grow the students. In other words, by creating a reward system, we award schools who are already achieving with additional resources that they don’t necessarily need, while penalizing Schools who are already suffering from poor academics but hitting their budgets. It was all built on the premise that this would spur healthy competition between schools administration’s to drive up scores to compete for funding - it didn’t.
Much blame gets put on standardized testing because we’ve created standardize tests Which were too narrow and did not place a priority on critical thinking, creativity and other principles. As a result, vying for funds, school administration’s started narrowing their curricula to focus specifically on the exams, so-called “teaching to the test”.
So, we narrowed the tests, created an environment where funding depended heavily on students performance on these tests and in doing so incentivized dumbing down the curricula and started financially penalizing schools who needed the money. And now, after sabotaging schools in these ways, people are starting to prop up the idea that public school is just bad and that we need to start funding charter schools with his little regulation as possible.
It’s a mess - but one we made. At the end of the day, we need a standardized system that tests students for certain competencies while securing funding for schools who achieve *and* allocates more resources to schools that don’t. But there must be some standardized means of identifying academic competency and growth, so testing is necessary and it doesn’t have to be a bad thing.
What constitutes being smart? A person that simply follows the path laid out by authority I think are not really that smart. They are good at following orders and it misses the purpose of education which is to challenge the known ideas of the world.
***** But at what price? If a child know that he loves to play the piano and HE decides to go to a music school, the pressure they will put on him may be favorable. But if you are forcing and pressing the kid to play the piano just because you want him to be the best musician he can be, he may end up hating it. And in the schools they force the kids to do things they don't want.
My point is, why do we want everyone to be perfectly functional members of the society if we will be so frustrated and probably wont like our lives anyway.
Also, in my opinion, the pressure applied in the schools just decreases their potencial as human beings by increasing their potencial as bots.
Everyone needs to learn the basics is what he's saying. What's so hard to understand about that? This "It's all a conspiracy to dumb down the populace" nonsense is just that. Well, except maybe in intellectual cesspools like Texas.
Jack Wright What basics? he is basically implying that it's better when teenagers do 5 hours a day of homework, 5 freaking hours! that lets them virtually without time for themselves. He isn't talking about any basics.
carca1122
The number of hours is secondary to the point. Five hours per night is an example from Japan and he is not necessarily recommending such an extreme workload. One hour per night is from the USA, and that just doesn't seem like enough to me.
The theme? Raw IQ and parents impact results far more than the teachers or even schools themselves.
Most inner city schools do not have: good teachers; text books; IT support or computers.
But what they do have is lots of black people.
Strange, inner city schools without them do just fine.
also it's full of brown people with low IQs
Poor white communities do equally bad as poor black communities. There's just fewer poor white communities than black
julian brown Okay, prove it.
William Thomas They would just destroy them if they had them!
Kids don't raise their hands in school because it is not cool to respond to the corporate authority of the State truth machine.
M. Strain Jr.
Perhaps it's under their enslaved minds?
What simplistic nonsense!
Jack Wright
Simplistic Sense.
symbolsandsystems
Only people into conspiracies, fundamentalist religion or both make statements like this. Which are you?
Jack Wright
Now who is being simplistic Jack?
Because the races differ in average intelligence, temperament, motivation etc. And this division emerges from a long and divergent line of genetic inheritance.
He lost me completely when he said there's no harm in teaching to the test. Some things are fundamentally impossible to measure. Somebody's genuine understanding of a topic is among those things. Forcing bad measurements lead to a wide variety of problems in institutions. I think a far better approach would be to have kids work on projects that force them to develop particular skill sets. You probably won't get a nice answer of "Johhny understands algebra 75%" but that's misleading anyway so it's not a great loss. The win on the other side is that people tend to learn skills much better when they actually need it to accomplish something with that skill.
What really irritates me about testing is things like teaching kids to fill in bubbles. Every year from 2nd to 6th grade I had to sit there with all the delinquents who couldn't be bothered to try, and be taught how to fill in the bubbles on state testing. Literally hours of younger me (and my friends who were also "gifted" ) sitting there when they could have been teaching us so that by now I could be learning quantum mechanics or at least AP calculus instead of sitting in math 1-2 as a freshman
In some, primarily eastern cultures, there is respect and reverence for education and learning. Also doing well at school is seen as a sign of respect for teachers, parents and culture. For the very poor and marginalized it is also their ticket out of poverty. Competition for the best colleges is huge and you cannot take the low road.
Story of middle class and poor eastern households
Neil deGrasse Tyson
u gotta have motivation!
have a dream!
a goal!
It's not that kids in school aren't challenged, it's that information is presented in a way that bores us, and we also aren't given much freedom to think about it or question it. We also have to do so much homework on subjects we aren't interested in that all we care about is getting a good grade.
I just graduated high school, so I know better than many of you what it's like to be high a high schooler right now.
Dr. Steinberg's makes several assumptions that, in my experience, are not supported by experiential knowledge. Other factors tend to operate on students' hearts and minds (Asian, Asian American, Native American, African American, Iranian American, Bosnian American, British American, etc.).
For example, he doesn't even attempt to touch upon the way pervasive stereotypes and discourses which often queue us all up to think and behave in ways, consistent with our group identity categories and associated rote stereotypes. If society is trained to think and behave in patterned ways so that we tend to perceive people, and ourselves, on the basis of prescribed racial and ethnic categories, perhaps this also explains way certain groups of students tend to perform and behave in certain ways in school and in society.
+Edythe Weeks He's answering the questions, and doesn't have enough time to touch every single one of these points. My wife is a woman of color who came from nothing and worked her way up, and now has a great job. She never cried about the color of her skin. She picked herself up, got an education, and went to work. The best you can do as an individual is to do the best for yourself and your family. That's all people need to worry about. Kids of color who are hung up on the race debate won't do better simply because they are hung up on race versus race, and 'fuck the police' mentality. That shit needs to stop, and people need to get to work.
It's like if I raise my son, who will be a mixed race person simply because of where my wife comes from, and tell him, "Now watch out buddy, because these white people will try to put you down, but don't let them." At that point I'm already building hate in my child. That's the kind of crap that's happening with the news, and with these families. It's building hate, and destroying everything MLK Jr. worked so fucking hard for.
I live and New York, I see the product of this kind of hatred every day. Mainly black kids, filled with hate. Not because they are inherently mean, but because of their parents and their peers, pushing them into a mindset that it's us against the world. It's not you against the fucking world. There is not a group of people set on destroying you, period.
On the flip side, I see the opposite version of those kids that are busting their ass, heads in their books, fighting the stereotypes that their angry counterparts are creating for them. That's the problem. Blacklivesmatter, all these movements etc. is bullshit.
EDUCATION matters. That's what's important. Changing the mind. Human life matters no matter what color. No one should be on a pedestal. All lives matter, and with the right education and mentors, anyone from anywhere can be what they want to be. MLK fought for the single notion that everyone would be treated equally, and much has been gained. The problem now is when there is an issue in society, much of the black community is simply getting furious and effectively destroying what he stood for, by creating just mounds of anger. Are their injustices? Absolutely, but you're not supposed to center your entire fucking life around those injustices. You need to get to work and make a difference on your own.
i think it is not race based but economic based its really hard to take part in your kids studies when you have to work 2 or 3 jobs just to put food on the table
I never understood the mindset you are projecting. I've known what career I will do after high school since I was 14, which is Programming. It makes over $90,000 a year. I will also be an electronic music producer as a side job / hobby, it ranges from $10,000 to $1Million a year. I doubt that the economy means anything, I think its due to kids not choosing a realistic job that pays decent money without having to go to college for more than 4 years.
Yeah, but the economic base comes from where?...One doesn't clean toilets from bursting with intelligence.
Zinger So no one ever came from humble beginnings to achieve greatness. Every great man or woman was already rich and successful when they started out. You ignorant fucktard.
That was my point - the intelligent rise and morons stay behind and complain. If you want to see a fucktard look in the mirror.
So, it has nothing to do with breeding? Certain dogs and horses are better at certain things than other breeds. Or can I even ask that question?
Perfectly legitimate question. The answer is that humans don't really have "breeds" in the same sense that dogs and horses do. Distinct human groups have variance in their gene pools that overlap with human groups that are geographically near them. When a Dog is bred, the parents are controlled to have the best characteristics and dogs with undesirable traits are not allowed to breed. Historically, when humans procreated, they didn't really stop to think to themselves "are my traits desirable" which leads to variance in the gene pool.
Look at south sudan for example: a quick look at their demographics shows 4 distinct ethinic groups vying for political power while tens of other groups being effected by that civil war. When you realise that a small, seemingly inconsequential, country has a diverse gene pool you'll realise that the western term "races" have a lot more to do with cultural groupings than genetics.
A quick thought experiment to test whether genes are significant to the western idea of races is to check how many people would go into each category: Asian would account for more than half the worlds adult population. Black would account for people in Ghana, South Africa, and Jamaica (all completely different). Whites would completely discount the fact that there are people around world with European ancestry because of the European empires and vice versa. And I don't really understand the mental gymnastics required to try to put "Hispanics" into a genetics based group so I'm not going to try.
How did you get so insulated from facts? Different races have different average IQ's; not just IQ's but all forms of measurable intelligence. Different averages. This has been proven time and time again by people whose intention was to disprove it. Either join their number by trying to disprove it again or stop spreading foolish ad-hoc hypotheses.
I was trying to point out that "Races" aren't the same as breeds by describing how "Races" are culturally defined rather than from a purely genetic bases. That being said, "Races" will have different genetic pools and thus it isn't surprising that they have different averages (like intelligence as you have pointed out)
I did not claim that the traits of all distinct human groups somehow magically average out to each other. I'm not entirely sure where someone would get that idea from my post and I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.
The part about " Distinct human groups have variance in their gene pools that overlap with human groups that are geographically near them" I was referring to cases like in South Sudan. I wasn't trying to claim that distinct human groups like Han Chinese and Canadian Inuit were similar enough that you could effectively group them up together.
So you say it takes 7 million years to develop human intelligence, but human intelligence can go through no changes in 10,000 years.
So that's enough time to adapt skin color, but not enough to create any measurable difference in intelligence.
+AssaultFlamingo If you think it's education that creates the IQ difference, you should set up an experiment that removes that as a variable. Oh wait, that has already been tried dozens of time only to prove that the original evidence was correct. I guess that means your only option is to stop lying to people.
I was always a relatively high GPA student (Red Alert 2 was more important than getting a 4.0) and I did the bare minimum of homework and studying.
What I did was learn everything the first time (assuming it was worth learning at all).
The problem I have with schools is how repetitive they are.
Yes, we learned about (the frail outline of) WWII in grades K, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8...
Can we move on?
Why does Iran hate us and how did that lead into Iraq Wars 1 and 2?
What is a prion? What are scams to look out for when I leave high school? How do I do a tax return?
What is trigger discipline? What is mildot? How do I jam a RQ-170 stealth drone with a 40 dollar kit?
Etc.
Start teaching them EVERYTHING. Anyone who doesn't get it? Too bad. We're moving on.
4-5 hours a week? I'm majority in University Biology, and I can easily go a week without even thinking about classes. I don't go to lectures, only laboratories. I cannot even muster the willpower to study for exams more than 8 hours before I write them, and I am doing just fine...
I hear kids around me talking about working on weekends and over the holidays and it simply boggles my mind. Unless they are getting 95%+, the extra effort they put in is simply not worth it in my honest opinion.
He clearly doesn't have kids in public school.
From my experience first hand in city school, family members in school, teachers, friends, local school reports, and some national studies.
*1.* Schools will push students into the next grade even if they have all F's. They did this with my brother repeatably. No Joke. They do this to avoid failing national standards. This fails students, and does indeed render diploma's useless.
*2.* Parents are not active enough in most city schools, especially poorer areas, or crime areas, or both. This hints of a troubled community.
*3.* The home is as important as the school, but many parents also feel school is part daycare for them, then leave kids in a baby sitter or alone at home. More common with single parents, immigrant parents, or two multi job working parents. They have to trust the school system to do the rest, but are schools are not equipped for this.
*4.* Broken homes, poverty, and lack of parenting make all issues become bigger issues.
*5.* Bullying is one of the most destructive things for any student.
*6.* Tests are the same across grades. I remember talking school and having the same tests from grade 3-8 grade practically being lifted from prior year tests with only a couple of questions changed. This does not test skills, it only benefits test takers.
*7.* Teachers spend far too much of each year, every year, focusing on prep testing. Focusing specifically on teaching the students how to pass the test. This does not teach students skills. I'm certain this is something due to policy.
*8.* District school policies should not be meeting political goals, they should be educational goals. Many school policies seemed focused on passing students who shouldn't be passed, and using tests that shouldn't be used, and curriculum that would betray the purpose of schooling for the sake of failing national standards.
*9.* Schools work in broken systems, and politicians have set up programs that hide them. One of the local High School's prides itself as a progresser of education and ranked well... in a city of sub par education. It's rating is an *A-* locally, but it's actual rating outside of the city system is a *D+* when it comes to *"application of applied learning"* In other words a broken system.
*10.* Teaching positions are not competitive and low paying. Finland in comparison has slightly better pay (which is much better considering cost of living in that nation) and teaching is competitive.
*11.* We protect bad teachers. Our system allows teachers to go to different towns and get a new job even if the scandal involved student violence and molestation. it's partly union, partly cultural.
*12.* Teachers need their unions, but those same unions bring a number of problems with cities. Both have to barter to get what they want, and though this could be good, it also means the entire education system is often deadlocked. Want a program that can help vaccinate teachers for free on site, or even students. No Luck. Even the custodians union causes problems in some cases.
*13.* City schools need Night classes for teen students who do jobs or are single mothers. Most schools don't do it. Some who can't are stopped by unions refusing to consent to hours they don't want. One school was ready to go until stopped by the janitors union.
*14.* Cities are not ideal for schools. Often overcrowded, terribly funded, with bad areas, and not enough cops in those areas most needed to students and families.
*15.* The entire national policies aimed at schools are political short term goals.None are real solutions. Solutions that are possible are often destroyed by partisanship.
*16* Our good teachers are heroes, but do not get the support they need from us, nor respect from us. They need that respect for our students to respect them.
*17.* Our entire culture either ignores all above, or blatantly lies. We all have to change this culture.
This happened to me
i wasnt afraid of doing badly and showing bad grades to my parents. Rather, i had fun learning and i loved kicking Ass and Being the Top Student
Surely every race has geniuses, but different amounts of it, the amount of geniuses of a specific race is determined by the average intelligence and standard deviation of the bell curve within the graph.
So much effort in avoiding the obvious. Tens of thousands of years of separate evolution have resulted in populations having different cognitive abilities. Intelligence is largely genetic. It can't be remedied by changing the pedagogical technique.
Well, I for one am thrilled to hear you believe in evolution. But you're going to have to show me this evidence that proves "separate" evolution. Nevertheless, I trust you've lived in many different continents, and cultures, with many experiences to enlighten your opinions - as any honest thinker must do when thinking in terms of people, Yes?
There was very little admixture between populations for tens of thousands of years. Those populations lived in different environments. It's axiomatic that evolution would produce different results. Convergent evolution is possible but there is little evidence of it as concerns intelligence. This is what we see and what the speaker in the Big Think video spoke on.
No, I've lived in only one small geographic area in the US. But there is knowledge other than personal experience. So no your presumption is erroneous.
Tell me do you have any evidence for your presumption of evolution producing the same results despite differing environments through convergence or some other mechanism? I'm not interested in some dogma that can only be enforced through political corrections or some other dishonest effort. What is your evidence that the different human populations evolved the same in regards to intelligence? Keep in mind that anecdotal evidence can only be used to refute universal claims and I have not made any universal claims.
Harold Crews
could you perhaps produce a link to a peer-reviewed study demonstrating meaningful/significant difference in cognitive capabilities among different geographic/homogenous populations?
If you're interested google it yourself. There will be no difficulty finding as many references as you like. It is very well commented upon. Perhaps you'd care to show me references showing that there aren't differences? If you dispute the differences then you're disagreeing with what the speaker in the video presented.
Just in case you were asking in good faith here is a link.
isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic185351.files/Rushton-Jensen30years.pdf
East Asians share a culture of "achievement".
you guys are the smartest
@Wiener Jim same as south asians and south east asians
not just East Asians. South Asians, South East Asians as well.
Go there and have a look at their "achievments"
@@davidw8668 The achievements are more advanced infrastructure, leading next-generation technology 5G, and a culture of respecting science and social harmony.
I have worked in public schools for 22 years. This is obvious everyday. I am in the most ethnically diverse high school in town. My daughter graduated from the academic magnet high school which was also ethnically diverse. The other traditional high schools are predominantly black. My daughters graduating class of 104 students amassed more scholarship dollars than the five traditional high schools, two other magnet schools (arts and tech), as well as all the private schools in town. One of her classmates invented an antibiotic and another was working on a urine test to check for cancer markers. Truly exceptional kids. In my high school it's a tale of two cities: great kids and 'the others.'
In most of our high schools our black students have become unteachable. Their behavior and willingness to do schoolwork has become the hallmark of failure. In meeting with students and parents you find that most believe either you get a smart kid or not. They also see passing the the next grade or getting a diploma separate from actually learning and mastering the content.
Here's my solution: don't start a kid in kindergarten until they are academically ready, use a quality control tests to pass kids to the next grade in elementary school, has course credit exams in middle school and high schools, increase vocational programs so kids can leave high school and get skilled jobs, lastly have school rules mirror societies rules.
Kids have to be taught that the work they do translates into how they will live as adults.