Fixing Your Branch Line: Cynwyd Line (ft. Classy Whale)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ต.ค. 2022
- Since the last episode focused on the one NJT branch that terminated at Philadelphia, I might as well review the commuter rail network of the same city next: SEPTA. Among its large commuter rail network, I chose the Cynwyd Line for its incredibly short length, and how it unsurprisingly once played a larger role for the Pennsylvania Railroad. Likewise, as the second shortest commuter branch in the entire nation, this episode may be a bit short, but it still includes a wide variety of possibilities for branch line improvements.
Credit for all photos used go to their original photographers
All music used in this video is from the TH-cam Audio Library.
Copyright Disclaimer under Section 107 of the copyright act 1976: allowance is made for fair use for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use.
Classy Whale: / classywhale
Jared Cohen: / @spacepeanut
Walt Loevy - / waltloevyactiontrainvi...
Manayunk Bridge Photo 1 - By Eliott, Joseph, creator - www.loc.gov/pictures/item/pa3..., Public Domain, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
Conversion of the Manayunk Bridge to a trail in July 2015 - By Montgomery County Planning Commission - Manayunk_Bridge_cons, CC BY-SA 2.0, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
Photo of Wynnefield Avenue train station in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. - By Lucius Kwok - Own work, CC BY 2.5, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
www.trainweb.org/phillynrhs/RP...
The station at Bala for SEPTA in the Bala-Cynwyd neighborhood of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. - By Adam Moss - www.flickr.com/photos/roadgee..., CC BY-SA 2.0, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
DSCN1299 - By Mike Kam - DSCN1299, CC BY-SA 2.0, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
Exo ALP-45DP #1356 at Vendôme Station - By Mtlfiredude - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
The Fox Chase station on SEPTA's Fox Chase Line, showing the depot constructed in 2011. - By Adam Moss - www.flickr.com/photos/roadgee..., CC BY-SA 2.0, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
The site of the former platform of Walnut Hill in 2006. - By Coemgenus at English Wikipedia - Own work, Public Domain, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
www.pa-tec.org/Newtown/Statio...
A SEPTA Fox Chase Line train bound for Center City Philadelphia stops at the Ryers station - By Dough4872 - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
Music Used in Order:
Not For Nothing - Otis McDonald
Bluebird - E's Jammy Jams
Royale - Josh Lippi and the Overtimers
Breeze - Telecasted
This Is A Jazz Space - Midnight North
Tubby - Steve Adams
Wise - Silent Partner
Amazing to me that the Cynwyd line is still in existence considering how short the line is, only one car used, and frankly low ridership numbers.....I would like to see service restored to Reading in addition to West Chester
SEPTA wasn't formed in the 80s.
It was formed in 1964 and began service 09.30.1968.
It took over the Regional Rail system from Conrail (successor to PRR and RDG) in 1983.
If yall want info on history.... this is the man to hit up. My lil bro. 🙌🏿🙌🏿🙌🏿
That was for city division transit. Region commuter lines were under Septa but Conrail employees still operated railroad trains. Jan 1981 Septa took over full RR Operations. And the government paid part of the employees salary. Later that lead to the 108 day strike by RR engineers in 1983 because Septa wanted to pay Engineers and Conductors Bus Driver wages.
Remove all trails and place rails 😎
Why not build an EL above it?
@@qjtvaddict Because no one wants to walk or cycle under a train when they could just *get on the train!*
Alrighty I gotta put my two cents in......
The Amtrak incident in 2013 was due to a inexperienced conductor on a routine wye move; AMTRAK uses the ramp to the Cynwyd overpass as a leg of a wye utilizing the Pittsburgh Subway and the Berry Track past ZOO Tower to turn diesels and bad order equipment. In that case the AEM cab signals failed, and the conductor was on the tail end of the move. SEPTA dispatchers noticed something was wrong when they got the violation signal from CP JEFF (where the single track starts) when there was nobody scheduled to be up there. It was surprising that the engineer didn't note that something was wrong when not only they went through CP JEFF (which is SEPTA territory) but past three other stations before coming to a stop 50 feet before the bumper in Cynwyd and the motor stop on the catenary. Needless to say, heads rolled that day.
As to improving the line itself, there is still plans on the books to convert the line to LRT, and connect with the Route 10 trackage at 54th and Lancaster. This will improve line speeds and connect directly to University City. More importantly, it takes the line out of partial Amtrak control and improve flow for the Thorndale line and keystone service; AMTRAK has a single car ban on the corridor and the Harrisburg line, and in order to operate single mu or lite engines, trains must operate under absolute block between controlled points. SEPTA and Amtrak made the entire stretch from Kay through Belmont int to VALLEY/STILES controlled points to allow for those moves, and at times it can cause a backup as it takes extra time to clear.
The Reading service will be delayed until NS comes to is senses and stop demanding 100 million a year for trackage rights WITHOUT ELECTRIFICATION. Don't help that the property values along the line is constantly increasing. The same issue is in place for the NEWTOWN Line as multiple homeowners have deeded the abandoned row as their own to expand their properties.
Finally the Fox Chase was double tracked to Cheltenham up to 2010 as part of the cab signals and PTC projects. CSX placed multiple demands tenant railroads to comply with their standards and pay for rights; SEPTA, NJT was hit hard with that. I'm order to stop having to deal with that, SEPTA utilized what physical plant they had: Newtown Junction was reconfigured to separate SEPTA from the CSX Trenton sub and have a controlled siding in the open area, a new siding north of Lawnside allows for passing, but that meant the inbound track is the new single main (that's why Olney is as big as it is, and why Lawnside has that walkway that is protected by both SEPTA and CSX), further up the line, SEPTA installed a third track between Woodbourne and Yardley and made the inbound track between Yardley and West Trenton single mains for both SEPTA and CSX, and rerouting the outbound track around the yard at West Trenton essentially physically separating the two railroads.
That wasn't the only incident of an Amtrak train straying into Septa territory. In 2018 an Amtrak Engineer going from NY-Penn to 30th St. lower level went to upper level Septa tracks where he wasn't qualified to operate his train. And when the C-tec dispatcher called to ask for his location, he seemed oblivious to where he was. . . . . Huh???
@@jay-z635 An Amtrak train was also misrouted to SEPTA's Chestnut Hill West line, and the engineer kept going, apparently oblivious.
That Amtrak conductor had at least 15yrs. experience, because we have worked together in the past. He just was in a daze and was depending on his engineer.
First time seeing this video, its very informative and well done thanx . My take is never get rid of any rail line or service. Expand them or re-do them for better service and more jobs.
8:10 I’m not sure why you rated the Raritan Valley Line lower then the Pascack Valley Line. The former gets a lot more service, around one train an hour between Newark and Raritan 7 days a week. And the Pascack service every two hours on weekends, and mostly rush hour service on weekdays
Unfortunately commuter rail was cut back in the 70s when a large part of suburban Philadelphia was undeveloped. Now that these areas are highly developed, much of what was removed would be viable as commuter rail.
Video I've been waiting to see! I loved it! Thanks for uploading!
I never knew Silverliner V units could run as just one coach. All this time I thought they were exclusively married pairs like the LIRR M7.
As for the Cynwyd branch itself, I find it so odd to come across a short branch with an infrequent shuttle service, especially given how busy the rest of the network is (not to mention the much longer trains). It reminds me of the Melling Line service in Wellington, NZ. That service uses 2-car Matangi EMUs (coupled in pairs at peak times) while calling only at five stations. It also has an inconsistent service pattern and doesn't run on weekends.
Silverliner V's come in 2 sets, 800 series married pairs, 700 series are singles .
These videos are very interesting. Keep up the good work!
BTW: Wynnefield is pronounced "Win-field". Driving from center city to Cynwyd can take a lot longer than 22 minutes, and it is less stressful. I used to live near the Cynwyd station, but I only used it once, when I returned from Princeton, via the Dinky, to buy my uncle's car in 1976. While they would never build just that line today, replacing it with buses would be a disaster, taking much more than 22 minutes. As long as there is sufficient ridership, and it is not subsidized more than other lines, then I say keep it running.
The Norristown Loop is a good idea. I remember when Norristown wasn't crime ridden No' town and we bought a seven passenger v-8 station wagon from someone who lived in Norristown in the 60s.
I think that the Norristown loop will bring back urban pioneers looking for a cheaper place to live like Media and Chester/Upland. Granted, you have to be a hardier sort than your Media urban pioneer and pack pepper spray and put a baseball bat in the umbrella stand next to your front door, but you can do this. Trains built SE Pennsylvania and continue to do so. Wallingford and Swarthmore represent 🤘 ❤️
Here's my solution for the Cynwyd Line. First, insert a new station at Jefferson Street (likely named Parkside) due to the high density housing nearby. Next, extend service to Belmont Park via the Cynwyd Heritage Trail with an intermediate stop at Barmouth. Also, frequencies should be increased to an hourly service or better while also increasing the speed of trains during service (you can almost beat the train by walking 😂).
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The Xpress local service on stores Townline could be a good idea. I think I would like to add to that is they would restored the right of way and tracks of the Pennsylvania railroad line and reserve that for Xpress service to Norristown, and make the Reading service to local
Finally I've been waiting for a Septa one
I remember seeing An Amtrak Train On this branch line. I was like 8
The first thing that should be done is make it run through the Center City and go onto one of the Ex-Reading lines, then they can extend onto the Norristown Line.
The solution here is actually buying Class 755 Flirts dual mode for both R6 Cynwd Norristown Line R8 Chestnut Hill West to Newtown via Fox Chase lines. In an emergency situation Class 755 dual door if ordered version can diesel power through the 1978-1984 Center City Tunnel.
The Cynwyd line should be a bus. I rode it once,and there was hardly anyone on that train.
An excellent episode of Fixing Your Branchline Pensyfan19! Glad to have provided the Trainz footage at 3:51
The Cynwyd Line isn't marketed very well, considering it crosses congested City Ave (US 1) not far from the infamous Schuylkill Expressway (I-76).
May be a bit late to add my two cents on this topic, but I can see why Amtrak chose NS trackage for their line to Reading with the SRPRA, since running on a restored Cynwyd line or the present Manayunk/Norristown line would get in the way of SEPTA's traffic, and require the trains to either use the platforms dedicated to SEPTA at 30th Street before going through the Center City Tunnel (which given the tight corner after Jefferson Station, might be tricky to get their future ALC-42E dual mode locomotives through) or use the regular Amtrak platforms, and back up immediately after leaving 30th Street, up the SEPTA platforms and do the same thing, which is just more inconvenient. Running over the Cynwyd line would be easier if it were restored, but that's a bit of an if, and again would be an Amtrak train getting in the way of a SEPTA line with questionable room to expand to three or four tracks. Getting in the way of a regional rail system that is looking to improve frequency in the coming years is bad for both parties, so Amtrak would want to use the frankly more predictable NS trackage, encourage the SRPRA to invest in sidings and double-tracking on the line to improve capacity, and run Amtrak service over that. I do agree that in an ideal universe, SEPTA should run the line to Reading instead of Amtrak, but for what we're getting, it makes more sense since it's frankly easier to work with.
Wouldn't the Cynwyd line be more convenient for Amtrak? Less traffic from SEPTA and the Zoo interlocking would allow Amtrak to cross over to the NEC, thereby entering the 30th street station, utilizing Amtrak platforms. This would keep Amtrak from having to use the tight corner before Jefferson and not use SEPTA platforms at 30th.
@@christophercox9311 In theory yes, it's better than the Manayunk-Norristown line and the NS line, but from my time seeing the line in person along there, there are three major problems with routing the Amtrak route up the Cynwyd line: First, the line doesn't exist anymore past Cynwyd station. As mentioned in the video, it was converted into the Cynwyd heritage trail, and while the right of way still exists, it would require demolishing the trail (and all of the political backlash that could come with that), and it ties into the second problem: where would you send the line? If you were to restore track, and build a connection to the Manayunk-Norristown line at Ivy Ridge, that would be more expensive than a lot would think, especially since you'd have to compensate for the really steep hill between where the Pennsy Schuylkill branch used to run down to the Norristown line. (anyone who lives in or been to Manayunk knows that you'd need calves of steel to get up those hills on a bike, and a train would have a worse time). Alternatively if you were to (somehow) restore the former Schuylkill branch (which is now completely turned into a trail), that would be very expensive. The third problem again, is that SEPTA will find this arrangement very problematic in the coming years, especially if their Rethinking Regional Rail program is anything to be believed. Having higher frequencies on SEPTA services (upwards of a train every fifteen minutes) would make it that much trickier to slot in an Amtrak train. All of this is part of the reason why I'd much rather prefer SEPTA run service to Reading instead of Amtrak, for both higher frequency service proposed and better connectivity for people commuting from Reading to Philly or vice versa. For the situation that the Cynwyd line finds itself in, and the nature of the current proposal, running Amtrak over the NS tracks is simply the easiest way to go, since there would be much less capital expense and political issues to start service, which is certainly a factor, as much as we hate to say it.
Cynwyd is Welsh, so not being able to pronounce it is hardly surprising. Bala is also in North Wales, an interesting connection.
So is Narberth and Bryn Mawr.
2amtrack should run express trains to reading and the south end of the service should either be Richmond or even futher south in western Virgina at Roanoak.
52 station caught fire early 80 s never fixed
Interesting.
The Reading and Penn Central often ran single car service on non peak service. Today SEPTA runs a Railroad like a subway line thus it's a glorified subway system now
Yay
The irony is that Japan today is going through what the USA went through in the 1950s/60s
What?
@@jetfan925 falling ridership and line closures
@Pensyfan19 one of your videos was featured on a railway age article
I saw, and I made a community post about it. It was the Remarkable Engines episode on NJT 4109 in an article about NJT's newest heritage unit.
SEPTA was created in the 60s not 80s. 6:20 really!?!? i need to find a video on that. Amtrak has proposed Reading service.
6:16 How did that happen? What happened to the train? Back track to 30th? End service in Cynwyd?
I assume it was likely due to a switch being left in the wrong position. I would also assume it later backed out and went along its way to Harrisburg.
What transit mode is best for low ridership lines and smaller destinations?
Trains. Trains is the answer to everything.
Even if it's not full fledged HSR, branch line shuttles or regional trains that connect to larger main lines would make do.
Depends on the length/service area the line is going through. A short length suburban/regional service may be better served with light rail or even BRT. Mainline/traditional trains have slower acceleration and too much capacity in such cases/usage.
It’s a case by case basis it depends on the surrounding network and build environment
Battery trains done
Slight correction. SEPTA, in its infinite wisdom, did away with Prof. Vuchic's R 1 through R 8 system of diametrical lines. All lines reverse now, only the Cynwyd at Suburban.
No many through run look closer at the schedule dude. Although many do terminate
@@qjtvaddict My mistake, but they are not explained as running through
@@ericbruun9020 on the schedule at the bottom of each run the line it through runs to is abbreviated
I'm very slow are you for or against private trains?
To put it very briefly: I'm generally for private passenger railroads since they're not completely reliant on federal/state funds, and they can provide higher qualities of service in areas that see little to no existing rail service.
@@Pensyfan19 I can understand that. While Brightline is doing good job I think Ameristar is insanely bad.
Overall I would love more passenger rail like you!
Wynnefield is pronounced win field
I hate it when people not from the area do videos like this for this reason
ins@@gchsbus I would have guessed SIN-wid instead of KIN-wid.
However, I can beat both with the name of a Virginia county near me. Botetourt. I couldn't believe it when my ex told me it's pronounced BOTT-a-tot.
We going to get MARC next??
MARC Doesn't have any defined branch lines, and neither does VRE. The closest thing he could do is the line to Frederick, or the extension to Martinsburg.
@@virginiarailfannoah5415 I would say the Frederick
MARC needs to improve a lot. Especially on the Brunswick line. They need reverse peak trains. Since the line goes through harpers ferry, I bet it would be a popular stop for hikers and others.
Amtrak needs to ban diesels from the NEC and the Camden Line needs to just die keep the diesels on the Brunswick line and electric trains on the penn line. A metro line needs to run along US 1
@@hmitchell8618 They tried that in the early 1990s. One time I rode a morning train out to Point of Rocks, hiked the C&O Canal towpath trail 6 miles to Brunswick and took the train back to Rockville.
Unfortunately, these reverse-commute trains were poorly patronized. Even more unfortunately, one of these trains was the one that collided with the Capitol Limited in early 1996. The Amtrak train was going through the crossover at Georgetown Jct. when the MARC train hit the first Amtrak unit cab car first. It resulted in 11 passenger and crew deaths. Most of them were young Job Corps guys returning from a project in Harpers Ferry.
A terrible tragedy. I believe the cause was the MARC engineer running a red signal. Snow was coming down hard, visibility was bad and it was a dwarf signal down on the ground.
Septa
Electrified Newtown service will never happen. It's too much easier and faster to run buses down I-295 (formerly I-95) to Cornwells Heights on the Trenton Line. And why in the world would anyone propose extending Newtown rail to NYC via highway medians to West Trenton? Even if new NYC service were feasible, how would that be better than extending the West Trenton Line itself?
any line could be fixed if you throw some steam engines on it...😉
Edit: how...because everyone likes steam engines
Cheaper solution: make bus
HOW ABOUT NO!!!!!
Where would the buses run? Every street route is congested. Even if you paved over the Cynwyd Line tracks, buses would still have to get through W. Philly to access it.