Thanks RFM for sharing your testimony. I had one of those too. I was also young - 23 years old when the missionaries knocked on my door. I believed everything that came out of their mouths and stuck to it for 39 years of faithful service. I wanted to believe it so badly that I made it real and that's all that members do really. They don't want to believe that parents, grandparents, church leaders believe and teach lies - but they do.
My wife said to me the other day do think leaders are not sincere. I responded sincerity has nothing to do with truth. Scores of people had died for their causes despite it being false or flat evil. They were sincere.
@@rtharalson I sure can relate to every word you said. I've quietly left the Church many years ago. Before my Parents died 9 years ago I still drove them to church and attended. .....I think most of my Sunday School Teachers sincerely believed the stuff they taught Still other religions sincerely believe in their causes just as much. It doesn't make anybody right. Hell the people that committed 9/11 atrocities thought they would be going to Paradise right afterwards. ......It's tough when family members guilt trip you. They treat Mormonism as a commodity package, where everything must be accepted or rejected. For instance they associate family time, going to A&W after Sunday School fast days, etc. with the fun and togetherness that Mormonisn brings. Well its arrogant to think Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Agnostic, etc. families can't share in that same joy and togetherness. .......I pretty much knew the Church wasn't true when I served my mission un the early 1980's. I hated the Temple. The blood oath was pathetic and weird. I half expected cult leader Charles Manson to come out and show us the proper ways to cut our throats. ....Later we learn that most of the ceremony was stolen from the Free Masons. Plus everyone got the same "special and unique" Temple name on the same day! The name was the same for everyone. Some inspiration huh?
Looking forward to this. There are few people as prepared as RFM to do this. Only one request, RFM - I love your humor but can you approach all this from a “here’s the true story, verify for yourself with the notes I’ll provide” vs. the thing many post Mos do which is to snark incessantly? Not to say you will snark, but that’s what would make this different than other Mormon podcasters, approaching it with wit but not derisive snark. That way my Mormon friends and family might just listen to a podcast or two if they don’t feel made fun of or attacked. I’m a long time post Mo and I think a “here’s the facts for you” approach has always worked better to convince Mormons to listen for once.
Oh, he will definitely snark. (This is RFM we're talking about, after all.) But I do agree, TBMs tend to be hyper-sensitive to criticism, so there is a balance for sure. I trust RFM to find it!
This is a perfect example of why the scriptures teach us that we should never rely on the arm of the flesh, or make flesh our arm (2 Nephi 4:34). If we rely on man, we will always be disappointed. The church is run by men who make mistakes. This is why our testimony must be rooted in Christ, and we must have a strong testimony of the gospel of Christ, and always rely on him. This does not mean that the gospel has not been restored by the prophet Joseph Smith, or that the keys of the priesthood are not on the earth for our temples and other work. What it does mean is that the church is a tillestial organization that will go away and be replaced by the Church of the First Born during the millennium.
My great sadness over the failings of Brother Dunn blighted this message. Especially with the added glee in which it was reported again. So many witnesses of the Book of Mormon fell too. It gives me a heavy heart because no room is given here for repentance. We can always repent! And many have. What do you think?
@@susanpasi6759 I understand your thoughts on Paul's repentance. However, he had lied to all of us. We felt he was guided by God. His inspiration and loving stories were told as if they were true. They were not true. Where does that leave followers???? Just get over it and carry on! Ok, but who else is lying to me? Time to think through this!
@@susanpasi6759 How can you take a plea for forgiveness seriously from a high-ranking elder who lied multiple times with his fake "faith-promoting" stories to the membership, and only did so after he was caught? Paul H Dunn also continued on with his public speaking activities (25:32) after being released with emeritus status, and continued receiving royalties from his "inspirational" cassette tapes and 28 published books of his exaggerated stories and lies. That is not the behavior of anyone who is self-aware and truly repentant.
I believe in repentance. An important part of repentance is acknowledging that past behavior was wrong. Dunn rationalized his lying, saying, "I don't consider it deceitful to exaggerat or alter facts. My motives are pure and innocent." This doesn't sound like repentance to me.
Before there was Paul H. Dunn there was Douglas R. Stringfellow. Stringfellow was a WWII hero who almost single-handedly won the war as an agent behind enemy lines. He would tell his story at firesides at various ward houses throughout Utah. He was also charismatic and caused many to have a "burning in the bosom." You can learn the details from Wikipedia--"Douglas R. Stringfellow."
It was great to hear you reminisce again about Elders Schantzen and Christiansen, and Bruce and Bishop Murphy, RFM. And it was so interesting to learn of your two testimonies. Elder Dunn’s confessions caused a crack in my young testimony, as well, joining the one from Mark Hoffmann’s playing a con on the GA’s a few years earlier. I remember commenting to the Stake President, Bob Jacobsen, in that same stake center you spoke of, about how much I was bothered by Paul Dunn’s lies and how sad he looked as he shook his head and said, “me, too.” By the way, my memory is that Paul Dunn was the first GA ever to receive emeritus status, in a groundbreaking move by the brethren, which enabled them to begin retiring others afterwards. Could that be right? Congratulations on the new podcast. I will be looking forward to hearing from you in the weeks to come. (Sumner stories are always welcome. 😉)
Thanks for this video and upcoming series! I've listened to your other podcasts and hearing you first talk about Paul H Dunn months ago really got me thinking. Realizing spiritual experiences happen in other religions, experiences like with Paul Dunn, and the Holland talk about wrong roads and the spirit telling him to go the wrong path helped me realize feelings/spirit don't seem to testify of truth like I was always taught.
Love this so much! These are the classes I wish I could have taught when I was TBM. The more I studied, the more I saw the holes in the fabric. Absolutely brilliant episode. Thank you for doing this!
As I left Mormonism, the last thing I had difficulty reconciling was this concept of spiritual experiences, of which I'd had several. One day as I comtemplated one such experience, I had the epiphany that I was struggling with some major decisions in my life and the experience I had was simply my own brain's way of finding a solution to the direction I could go in my life. I then reviewed all the spiritual experiences I'd had and I could not rule out it was my own subconscious brain providing me guidance.
As a 17 year old I went to see Paul H Dunn speak, was greatly impressed by him until after the meeting he sought me out and told me he had seen me during his talk and wanted to tell me something. I was terrified as at the time I wasn’t living the church standards and assumed as a Prophet, seer and revelator he had discerned this, but went on to say he could tell what a righteous YW I was!!! When I heard a few years later he was a fraud I wasn’t surprised and now years later I think he was a bit pervy too. Thank you RFM for all you have done to tell the truth about the LDS church, it has been such a help for me in my life and I’m finally free from the brainwashing.
Paul H Dunn was never sustained as a prophet, seer, and revelator. You have to be an apostle to have those credentials, and he only made it up to 70 level, not apostle level.
I did all the studying and praying and believing and reading I could, but I never had any experience. I went on a mission and prayed and studied the entire time. But I never had an experience. My heart was never moved. I never got a testimony. But I played the game until I and my wife finally left in 1986. I am about your age...
Wish there was a LOVE button because this one was absolutely brilliant. Why didn't I open my eyes to this scandal? I guess I was too apologetic at the time. Thanks so much for a short, to the point, Sunday School lesson!!
Thank you. My story is a lot similar to yours. Joined the church in 1977 (age 15). Was a great fan of Paul H Dunn. Served a mission. Left the church 1 years ago when my eyes were opened. Look forward to going through the Book of Mormon with you this years. It was never a favorite book. Way too many wars. Didn't give any meaning. Thanks for doing this. Happy New Year from Denmark.
_"Way too many wars"_ LOL Are you still a Christian? Because having been reading the Old Testament for the first time all the way through, most of the story has been about wars with other nations or conflict within Israel. Joshua is basically him conquering Israel. Judges is a cycle of Israel being in multiple different wars and is extremely bloody. David gained notoriety from being a great warrior. I mean, I could go on because that is what a lot of the Old Testament is. That is kinda of a dumb thing to say about the Book of Mormon. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is God's and Jesus Christ one and only true church here on earth. We know and teach the Bible and gospel better than any other denomination. You're eyes weren't opened, you have been deceived.
This is awesome. Thank you. I had started my truth seeking right before the come follow me course came out. With you every step of the way. I love your videos.
THANK YOU RFM!! This is so fantastic for a person who is PIMO. I wanted to let you know that when you played the clip from Bruce R. McConkie, it didn't have any sound on the podcast version that I listened to on Radio Free Mormon. I thought my phone had turned off. Looking forward to each episode!
Thank You Very Much for taking this project on. I appreciate the time involved and commitment to producing fifty or so episodes in 2024. I am so looking forward to partaking of YOUR weekly lessons and, if i were still active, would have much to challenge the gospel doctrine teacher/class with every single Sunday!
RFM's experience completely resonates with me. As a missionary in the late 70's Dunn's recorded talks were a staple for young elders in my mission struggling to find meaning and inspiration. I too felt the spirit and was "bouyed up" by his lies. After my mission I worked for a bank in Salt Lake that was part of the scheme concocted by Grant Afleck to defraud church members through endorsements by Dunn. Big let down.
RFM, Excellent launch of a useful series. It's a jaunt through our weekly indoctrination but this time with our critical thinking cap firmly placed on our head. I didn't slump once during this lesson. At this rate correlated lessons will say nothing lest we all be reminded of the observable rate of change in doctrine. It has always seemed odd to me that such a rich church doesn't pay for thorough background checks before elevating leaders. TWENTY EIGHT church published Dunn books later & it never occurred to the first presidency & admins to check out his fabulous fibs? They coud have toned him down earlier (say book #2) or run it thru controls like any good publisher does. They all got away with it until they ran into an honest exmormon journalist who chose truth over his personal finances. Once again the truth teller paid a higher price than the liars. Hats off to you again Lynn Packer!
I’m also looking forward to it. I hate that they were right about being able to leave but never being able to leave it alone. I guess I’m seeking further knowledge and understanding to further confirm what I have now come to know. I guess I’m just a lazy learner.
That whole line about leaving it alone from the LDS church is ridiculous. It doesn’t apply to most situations in which one felt lied to or abused. The leaving party has a right to do so and a right to speak about it as much as is wanted. Especially if it warns others from trusting them. So don’t feel bad about their statement. It’s kind of what abusers say to the abused to keep them in check.
When I was young I had to sit through Mormon Church meetings which seemed to never end, especially Testimony Meeting. At the end of the meetings, the Bishop or some other leader would often say something to the effect that, "the spirit has truly been with us today." I always thought that was just pious jibberish. The only spirit I felt was the spirit of boredom and occasionally the urge to laugh. We create our own feelings whether it be anger, hatred, love or something else. So, too, we create our spiritual feelings. What is spiritual to one is absurd nonsense to another. The spirit of the Holy Ghost is with you? Holy shit, you're just talking to yourself.
Im looking forward to attending RFM Sunday school in the foyer on Sundays while all the TBMs are sitting through Sunday school in the relief society room. Lol
I am a current Sunday school teacher in my ward. Last year when i was called I tried to introduce biblical scholarship for the new testament as much as i could. I was sort of dreading teaching BoM this year, but thankfully your new podcast has appeared to provide some much needed inspiration! Time to break out my Dan Vogel books. Lord knows the current Sunday school manual is so bare bones i cam pretty much take it in whatever direction I want! Thank you so much, RFM! Wonderful lesson on how spiritual experiences are ultimately an unreliable method yo determine trurth, but cam be a way to enrich and bless our lives (as long as ws you dont take them literally!)
In early 1965 I was a university freshman taking ROTC. Our university had a special"Religion in Life" week with representatives of various religious traditions on campus for a week being visible and ecumenical. The LDS representative was Paul H. Dunn. He was definitely a charismatic speaker. That week at sacrament meeting in the university ward Dunn was the only speaker. He was hilarious. I recall wondering is this a sacrament meeting talk or is it stand-up comedy? Anyway he came into our ROTC class as a representative of the Religion-in-Life week. He sat informally on the front of the instructor's desk and told about his WWII experiences. I heard Paul H. Dunn tell the story of his friend dying in his arms with the "if you ever get a chance to talk to the youth of America . . . " story from Paul H. Dunn live, about 10 feet away from me. The ROTC instructor afterward told us we were lucky that we got the best one of the 8 or so representatives of the Religion-in-Life week. In my sophomore year my ROTC class again got the LDS representative, A. Theodore Tuttle, I believe. He gave a talk about how blood types of Polynesian people is consistent with the Book of Mormon narrative. It was embarrassing. It is also a topic that no Mormon apologist would broach these days with DNA evidence so firmly against the BOM narrative.
This is how the church reps in my ward framed it when I asked why people from other religions felt so strongly about their own beliefs. I was told that all have the light of Christ, but only LDS members have the holy ghost.
Thanks RFM- I've been patiently waiting for you to accept the call. My Dunn experience confused the teenage me back in the 70's. I felt what he was saying was true, but I knew in my head it wasn't. I was talked to a few times by my Priesthood Leaders about my lack of faith and reminded what happened to apostates. I was assured all his stories were completely factual and reminded that to have any other view could lead to church discipline. Believing as I did.and horrified by my eternal prospects in outer darkness, I repented quickly and completely and eventually gained a perfect testimony of the absolute truth of everything Dunn said or wrote. . .
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and your testimony. Yes, others do have spiritual experiences. We are all children of God and we cane to this earth with the light of Christ. There are many good and faithful people of the world, who are not members of our church, but who are blessed by Heavenly Father. Im sorry that your testimony was shaken by Paul H. Dunn. I remember him well, and what he did was definitely wrong. However, he is one man and not an apostle. He made some bad choices and paid the price for that. As to your testimony of the Book of Mormon...that was a very powerful witness given directly to you. It came from Jesus Christ, and it was real. The Book of Mormon IS true. Dont let mortal men, or people's opinions, change that witness and truth. Of the 11 witnesses of the golden plates and the Book of Mormon, none of them ever denied what they saw and held in their hands. Some left the church, but they never denied their witness. Martin Harris even had his witness put on his headstone as a final witness to the world. If it was made up, and if they never saw the plates, why would they defend their testimony and witness and go through all the persecutions that they did? They had seen the plates, and they could not deny it.
I find RFMs experience about reading the BoM and feeling like he could see to infinity in every direction very interesting. When I was about the same age, 18, I had a very similar experience, but I was reading Wikipedia, learning about astrophysics and cosmology, which led me to realize that God didn’t need to exist, haha
I had such a delightful experience while reading A Course in Miracles and the Book of Mormon trilogy. It was truly a life-changing experience, as you can probably imagine. The profound wisdom and unparalleled depth of these literary masterpieces left me in awe. I mean, who wouldn't be completely captivated by the undeniable brilliance of these works? It was truly a journey like no other, and I am forever grateful for the valuable insights they bestowed upon me.
Wonderful, I love this! You look so nice in your suit and tie. Where is your white shirt? As a former member I begged my husband to wear a blue or patterned shirt.
I'm excited to listen to this podcast! BTW, I think there's a problem with your audio (I checked other videos and their audio is normal). Maybe you recorded on two mics at the same time?
I don't judge Paul Dunn too harshly. I, too, have used other people's stories as my own. Then again, I don't claim to be anything other than myself. I'm not trying to sell a mansion or a planet in the afterlife!
As a Never-Mo (from St. Louis, no less--[Cardinals??]) I thought I would have no reason to follow RFM's Mormon Sunday School. After watching tonight, however, I see that this will be as interesting as the other Mormon podcasts I follow. Mormonism has become a hobby of mine since running across Mormon Stories and expanding out from there. RFM can always be counted on for fascinating content!
Last time I went to sunday school was more than 20 years ago. The church was kiling me. No matter what I did I wasn't good enought. I felt guilty for most of this 20 years During covid with more freetime I started following ex mormon programs. I can't believe how much I was lied for almost all my life . I am free now. I'm still a member nobody in my life knows it. I won't write a letter to the church to let them khnow where I am 😂😂 Pd I remembered Paul H Dunn' talks and for sure where true. 🤦
Love your laugh RFM!! Your visions during your reading the BOM just blows my mind - and that it happened every time for you. I just gotta shake my head. I mean, if McKonkie told me that it would take one to ONE THOUSAND times to receive spiritual confirmation, I would probably see Jesus Christ himself and hear Moroni landing on my roof with his Santa’s sleigh aglow. By the thousandth time I would be so indoctrinated that I would not know up from down.
Moroni's promise is ONLY directed at Lamanites. The book does not claim that the promise will work for any non-fictional people. So, those who are leaving out this important fact, are gravely mistaken about the claims made by the Book of Mormon text.
Thank you RFM! If I may say so myself-You are a marvelous work and a wonder. I appreciate all your hard work on behalf of truth telling. And a huge Praise Be for Lynn Packer!!
I quickly listened to the big CFM podcasts to see if they expounded on “for the Lamanites”. The answer is 🚫no! Some focused on Jew and Gentile “that means everyone!”, some didn’t even read the phrase at all, and one just said, “I don’t know who they are” so moving on!
You kind of went way off topic. Not sure what Paul Dunn has to do with the introduction to the BOM. You should really base your testimony off Christ and not Paul Dunn. I'll pray for you brother. I hope you are able to regain your testimony of the BoM as the promise from Moroni states.
Nobody’s going to mention the lack of Marvel t-shirt? Looking good, RFM! This is a fabulous idea; I can’t wait to listen to what you have to say this year.
I must admit that after due study and prayer as well as consideration of the supplemental material presented here, I do indeed find the church's offerings to be marvelous in my eyes. Not so impressive in my brain though.
Thanks, RFM. I had a spiritual confirmation about Jesus being my Savior, but it was coupled with confirmation that JS was a prophet. Now that I know what a conman JS was, I can't put much trust in my confirmed belief in Jesus, either.
I especially like your takeaway #3: be very careful about how you interpret spiritual experiences! We are conditioned to think in certain ways a lot more than I believe any of us realize, and in my experience: _any_ message of God coming through to _anyone_ is going to be colored and or truncated by the limits of _what the receiving mindset will allow_ ... let alone what complications are going to be further imposed by trying to communicate the same to any additional mindset. To actually glean _truth_ from an experience, therefore, this perspective effect must _always_ be accounted for. Only then can it be objectively tested against the God=Love definition to determine how holy it really is. My testimony of the BoM is based on observations of my own journal writing, actually. I started journalling at age 8, and when in later years I read back what I wrote - 2 types of entries struck me with very different interest levels. An entry that was strictly historical (simply detailing what I actually did) was easily boring to reread, while an entry that tried to describe an idea, thought, or learned concept was infinitely more valuable and interesting. I believe scripture is much the same way. The most valuable elements of it are an effort to communicate deeply important ideas, thoughts, or concepts (parables!)... which get very messed up when interpreted as historical. As the D&C accurately states somewhere, God's commandments are (& have always been!) spiritual, not temporal. The fact that history is all about what is temporal, should tell us to look at all scripture through a much more conceptual lens. We'll be able to realize the truth better that way. Thank you for doing this! I hope to share in your journey regularly with insights of my own. (and I grew up somewhat near you, it sounds like! I wonder if we could possibly have ever met.)
Loved this, subscribed, and plan on listening every week (Also a monthly donor). Apart from TH-cam, can I find this on a podcast App, so i can listen as I am driving? Its not showing up on the app i normally use to listen to your regular podcast, and Mormonism Live and Mormon Discussions etc.
This is a spectacular idea and I loved your first lesson. Thanks for this. These lessons will be of great help when discussing the lessons with our tbm family and friends.
I’ve been praying for you to teach about your AMAZING Knowledge and understanding of the BOM…I’ve been listening to your podcast RELIGIOUSLY (no pun intended)…now this popped up! The Lord has answered my prayers…keep up the EXCELLENT and well cited work RFM!!
Who or what creates your feelings of love or anger or happiness or sadness or boredom? The answer is your brain. Who or what creates your spiritual feelings? Same answer. It is not the Holy Ghost or Jesus or an angel. Sacrament meetings didn't give me spiritual feelings; I just felt incredible boredom and occasionally the need to laugh.
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LOVE this!! Thank you RFM
I can’t wait for this!
Thank you RFM, for doing this!
Love the Sunday school attire!!! Nice touch
Can. Not. Wait!!! 🎉
This is awesome! You are such a great speaker, RFM. I am 50 years old and a lifetime member and have never heard this story about Paul H. Dunn.
Thanks RFM for sharing your testimony. I had one of those too. I was also young - 23 years old when the missionaries knocked on my door. I believed everything that came out of their mouths and stuck to it for 39 years of faithful service. I wanted to believe it so badly that I made it real and that's all that members do really. They don't want to believe that parents, grandparents, church leaders believe and teach lies - but they do.
My wife said to me the other day do think leaders are not sincere. I responded sincerity has nothing to do with truth. Scores of people had died for their causes despite it being false or flat evil. They were sincere.
@@rtharalson I sure can relate to every word you said. I've quietly left the Church many years ago. Before my Parents died 9 years ago I still drove them to church and attended. .....I think most of my Sunday School Teachers sincerely believed the stuff they taught Still other religions sincerely believe in their causes just as much. It doesn't make anybody right. Hell the people that committed 9/11 atrocities thought they would be going to Paradise right afterwards. ......It's tough when family members guilt trip you. They treat Mormonism as a commodity package, where everything must be accepted or rejected. For instance they associate family time, going to A&W after Sunday School fast days, etc. with the fun and togetherness that Mormonisn brings. Well its arrogant to think Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Agnostic, etc. families can't share in that same joy and togetherness. .......I pretty much knew the Church wasn't true when I served my mission un the early 1980's. I hated the Temple. The blood oath was pathetic and weird. I half expected cult leader Charles Manson to come out and show us the proper ways to cut our throats. ....Later we learn that most of the ceremony was stolen from the Free Masons. Plus everyone got the same "special and unique" Temple name on the same day! The name was the same for everyone. Some inspiration huh?
@@rtharalson never thought of it that way before... excellent distinction. TYFS.
Paul H Dunn tapes were my seminary teacher's favorite tool to keep us engaged. That and Johnny Lingo.
Thanks Radio, I love that you dressed appropriately for the Sunday School discussion so as to not take away from the Spirit 😊. So respectful.
I'm thinking I want to dress up for the lessons! Sunday School, "We're back!" Yay!!
Thanks RFM. Great start to this new endeavor. Can’t wait to follow along.
So grateful you are tackling this! Thank you, RFM
I am so excited to learn more about the book of Mormon this year and to gain insights that I wouldn't normally gain from the ward Sunday School!
This show inspires me to return to Sunday School and report...
Looking forward to this. There are few people as prepared as RFM to do this.
Only one request, RFM - I love your humor but can you approach all this from a “here’s the true story, verify for yourself with the notes I’ll provide” vs. the thing many post Mos do which is to snark incessantly? Not to say you will snark, but that’s what would make this different than other Mormon podcasters, approaching it with wit but not derisive snark. That way my Mormon friends and family might just listen to a podcast or two if they don’t feel made fun of or attacked.
I’m a long time post Mo and I think a “here’s the facts for you” approach has always worked better to convince Mormons to listen for once.
Oh, he will definitely snark. (This is RFM we're talking about, after all.)
But I do agree, TBMs tend to be hyper-sensitive to criticism, so there is a balance for sure. I trust RFM to find it!
This is a perfect example of why the scriptures teach us that we should never rely on the arm of the flesh, or make flesh our arm (2 Nephi 4:34). If we rely on man, we will always be disappointed. The church is run by men who make mistakes. This is why our testimony must be rooted in Christ, and we must have a strong testimony of the gospel of Christ, and always rely on him. This does not mean that the gospel has not been restored by the prophet Joseph Smith, or that the keys of the priesthood are not on the earth for our temples and other work. What it does mean is that the church is a tillestial organization that will go away and be replaced by the Church of the First Born during the millennium.
This guy btw is a wolf in sheep’s clothing be careful.
@@natewagstaff2516 Yes, I recognized that pretty early on in his video.
I loved Paul. Spent hours listening to his tapes and reading his books. It was heartbreaking.
My great sadness over the failings of Brother Dunn blighted this message. Especially with the added glee in which it was reported again. So many witnesses of the Book of Mormon fell too. It gives me a heavy heart because no room is given here for repentance. We can always repent! And many have. What do you think?
@@susanpasi6759 I understand your thoughts on Paul's repentance. However, he had lied to all of us. We felt he was guided by God. His inspiration and loving stories were told as if they were true. They were not true. Where does that leave followers???? Just get over it and carry on! Ok, but who else is lying to me? Time to think through this!
@@susanpasi6759 How can you take a plea for forgiveness seriously from a high-ranking elder who lied multiple times with his fake "faith-promoting" stories to the membership, and only did so after he was caught? Paul H Dunn also continued on with his public speaking activities (25:32) after being released with emeritus status, and continued receiving royalties from his "inspirational" cassette tapes and 28 published books of his exaggerated stories and lies. That is not the behavior of anyone who is self-aware and truly repentant.
I believe in repentance. An important part of repentance is acknowledging that past behavior was wrong. Dunn rationalized his lying, saying, "I don't consider it deceitful to exaggerat or alter facts. My motives are pure and innocent." This doesn't sound like repentance to me.
Before there was Paul H. Dunn there was Douglas R. Stringfellow. Stringfellow was a WWII hero who almost single-handedly won the war as an agent behind enemy lines. He would tell his story at firesides at various ward houses throughout Utah. He was also charismatic and caused many to have a "burning in the bosom." You can learn the details from Wikipedia--"Douglas R. Stringfellow."
Well done RFM! I loved this! Thanks for sharing about PHDunn and how it applied to your “testimony”
That was excellent! I want to say how much I like the new cameras - it feels like listening to you in person! Looking forward to more!
It was great to hear you reminisce again about Elders Schantzen and Christiansen, and Bruce and Bishop Murphy, RFM. And it was so interesting to learn of your two testimonies. Elder Dunn’s confessions caused a crack in my young testimony, as well, joining the one from Mark Hoffmann’s playing a con on the GA’s a few years earlier.
I remember commenting to the Stake President, Bob Jacobsen, in that same stake center you spoke of, about how much I was bothered by Paul Dunn’s lies and how sad he looked as he shook his head and said, “me, too.”
By the way, my memory is that Paul Dunn was the first GA ever to receive emeritus status, in a groundbreaking move by the brethren, which enabled them to begin retiring others afterwards. Could that be right?
Congratulations on the new podcast. I will be looking forward to hearing from you in the weeks to come. (Sumner stories are always welcome. 😉)
Boom!
Thank you for this!!!
Thanks for this video and upcoming series! I've listened to your other podcasts and hearing you first talk about Paul H Dunn months ago really got me thinking.
Realizing spiritual experiences happen in other religions, experiences like with Paul Dunn, and the Holland talk about wrong roads and the spirit telling him to go the wrong path helped me realize feelings/spirit don't seem to testify of truth like I was always taught.
Love this so much! These are the classes I wish I could have taught when I was TBM. The more I studied, the more I saw the holes in the fabric. Absolutely brilliant episode. Thank you for doing this!
Awesome!!!!!!!
Looking forward to this. 🇨🇦❤😊
As I left Mormonism, the last thing I had difficulty reconciling was this concept of spiritual experiences, of which I'd had several. One day as I comtemplated one such experience, I had the epiphany that I was struggling with some major decisions in my life and the experience I had was simply my own brain's way of finding a solution to the direction I could go in my life. I then reviewed all the spiritual experiences I'd had and I could not rule out it was my own subconscious brain providing me guidance.
The first epic episode!!
As a 17 year old I went to see Paul H Dunn speak, was greatly impressed by him until after the meeting he sought me out and told me he had seen me during his talk and wanted to tell me something. I was terrified as at the time I wasn’t living the church standards and assumed as a Prophet, seer and revelator he had discerned this, but went on to say he could tell what a righteous YW I was!!! When I heard a few years later he was a fraud I wasn’t surprised and now years later I think he was a bit pervy too.
Thank you RFM for all you have done to tell the truth about the LDS church, it has been such a help for me in my life and I’m finally free from the brainwashing.
Paul H Dunn was never sustained as a prophet, seer, and revelator. You have to be an apostle to have those credentials, and he only made it up to 70 level, not apostle level.
I did all the studying and praying and believing and reading I could, but I never had any experience. I went on a mission and prayed and studied the entire time. But I never had an experience. My heart was never moved. I never got a testimony. But I played the game until I and my wife finally left in 1986. I am about your age...
Wish there was a LOVE button because this one was absolutely brilliant. Why didn't I open my eyes to this scandal? I guess I was too apologetic at the time. Thanks so much for a short, to the point, Sunday School lesson!!
Thank you. My story is a lot similar to yours. Joined the church in 1977 (age 15). Was a great fan of Paul H Dunn. Served a mission. Left the church 1 years ago when my eyes were opened. Look forward to going through the Book of Mormon with you this years. It was never a favorite book. Way too many wars. Didn't give any meaning. Thanks for doing this. Happy New Year from Denmark.
_"Way too many wars"_ LOL Are you still a Christian? Because having been reading the Old Testament for the first time all the way through, most of the story has been about wars with other nations or conflict within Israel. Joshua is basically him conquering Israel. Judges is a cycle of Israel being in multiple different wars and is extremely bloody. David gained notoriety from being a great warrior. I mean, I could go on because that is what a lot of the Old Testament is. That is kinda of a dumb thing to say about the Book of Mormon.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is God's and Jesus Christ one and only true church here on earth. We know and teach the Bible and gospel better than any other denomination. You're eyes weren't opened, you have been deceived.
Fabulous!❤
This is awesome. Thank you. I had started my truth seeking right before the come follow me course came out. With you every step of the way. I love your videos.
THANK YOU RFM!! This is so fantastic for a person who is PIMO. I wanted to let you know that when you played the clip from Bruce R. McConkie, it didn't have any sound on the podcast version that I listened to on Radio Free Mormon. I thought my phone had turned off. Looking forward to each episode!
I am so excited for this series!! You’re the coolest!!
Thank You Very Much for taking this project on. I appreciate the time involved and commitment to producing fifty or so episodes in 2024. I am so looking forward to partaking of YOUR weekly lessons and, if i were still active, would have much to challenge the gospel doctrine teacher/class with every single Sunday!
Hope I can find the bawls to present some strategic challenges at church or at least with the wife on occasion.
So excited to read the Book of Mormon this year!!
Watch out. This guy is a wolf in sheep’s clothing
Subscriber 207 here. Excited to watch the channel grow?
LOVE THIS!!!
Excellent job RFM
I remember Don LeFevre! He was Grandma's neighbor, and she mentioned it to me often.
Lynn Packer is a legend !
RFM's experience completely resonates with me. As a missionary in the late 70's Dunn's recorded talks were a staple for young elders in my mission struggling to find meaning and inspiration. I too felt the spirit and was "bouyed up" by his lies. After my mission I worked for a bank in Salt Lake that was part of the scheme concocted by Grant Afleck to defraud church members through endorsements by Dunn. Big let down.
RFM, Excellent launch of a useful series. It's a jaunt through our weekly indoctrination but this time with our critical thinking cap firmly placed on our head. I didn't slump once during this lesson. At this rate correlated lessons will say nothing lest we all be reminded of the observable rate of change in doctrine.
It has always seemed odd to me that such a rich church doesn't pay for thorough background checks before elevating leaders. TWENTY EIGHT church published Dunn books later & it never occurred to the first presidency & admins to check out his fabulous fibs? They coud have toned him down earlier (say book #2) or run it thru controls like any good publisher does. They all got away with it until they ran into an honest exmormon journalist who chose truth over his personal finances. Once again the truth teller paid a higher price than the liars. Hats off to you again Lynn Packer!
I’m also looking forward to it. I hate that they were right about being able to leave but never being able to leave it alone. I guess I’m seeking further knowledge and understanding to further confirm what I have now come to know. I guess I’m just a lazy learner.
That whole line about leaving it alone from the LDS church is ridiculous. It doesn’t apply to most situations in which one felt lied to or abused. The leaving party has a right to do so and a right to speak about it as much as is wanted. Especially if it warns others from trusting them.
So don’t feel bad about their statement. It’s kind of what abusers say to the abused to keep them in check.
@@Alaneberhard, Amen to this.
When I was young I had to sit through Mormon Church meetings which seemed to never end, especially Testimony Meeting. At the end of the meetings, the Bishop or some other leader would often say something to the effect that, "the spirit has truly been with us today." I always thought that was just pious jibberish. The only spirit I felt was the spirit of boredom and occasionally the urge to laugh. We create our own feelings whether it be anger, hatred, love or something else. So, too, we create our spiritual feelings. What is spiritual to one is absurd nonsense to another. The spirit of the Holy Ghost is with you? Holy shit, you're just talking to yourself.
Im looking forward to attending RFM Sunday school in the foyer on Sundays while all the TBMs are sitting through Sunday school in the relief society room. Lol
I am a current Sunday school teacher in my ward. Last year when i was called I tried to introduce biblical scholarship for the new testament as much as i could. I was sort of dreading teaching BoM this year, but thankfully your new podcast has appeared to provide some much needed inspiration! Time to break out my Dan Vogel books. Lord knows the current Sunday school manual is so bare bones i cam pretty much take it in whatever direction I want! Thank you so much, RFM! Wonderful lesson on how spiritual experiences are ultimately an unreliable method yo determine trurth, but cam be a way to enrich and bless our lives (as long as ws you dont take them literally!)
Just so you know this guy is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. He is an anti lds talking head who is pretending to be unbiased.
In early 1965 I was a university freshman taking ROTC. Our university had a special"Religion in Life" week with representatives of various religious traditions on campus for a week being visible and ecumenical. The LDS representative was Paul H. Dunn. He was definitely a charismatic speaker. That week at sacrament meeting in the university ward Dunn was the only speaker. He was hilarious. I recall wondering is this a sacrament meeting talk or is it stand-up comedy?
Anyway he came into our ROTC class as a representative of the Religion-in-Life week. He sat informally on the front of the instructor's desk and told about his WWII experiences. I heard Paul H. Dunn tell the story of his friend dying in his arms with the "if you ever get a chance to talk to the youth of America . . . " story from Paul H. Dunn live, about 10 feet away from me. The ROTC instructor afterward told us we were lucky that we got the best one of the 8 or so representatives of the Religion-in-Life week.
In my sophomore year my ROTC class again got the LDS representative, A. Theodore Tuttle, I believe. He gave a talk about how blood types of Polynesian people is consistent with the Book of Mormon narrative. It was embarrassing. It is also a topic that no Mormon apologist would broach these days with DNA evidence so firmly against the BOM narrative.
Oh the pressure!! I wish you luck, I’ll be watching every one. Can’t wait❣️
This is how the church reps in my ward framed it when I asked why people from other religions felt so strongly about their own beliefs. I was told that all have the light of Christ, but only LDS members have the holy ghost.
Radio Free Come Follow Me...I LOVE it!
Thanks RFM- I've been patiently waiting for you to accept the call. My Dunn experience confused the teenage me back in the 70's. I felt what he was saying was true, but I knew in my head it wasn't. I was talked to a few times by my Priesthood Leaders about my lack of faith and reminded what happened to apostates. I was assured all his stories were completely factual and reminded that to have any other view could lead to church discipline. Believing as I did.and horrified by my eternal prospects in outer darkness, I repented quickly and completely and eventually gained a perfect testimony of the absolute truth of everything Dunn said or wrote. . .
Wow. The TH-cam algorithm is feeding me a hell of a lot of Mormon "Come Follow Me" videos. Help, I'm being "love bombed".
Watch out. This person is no longer a member and is actively fighting against the church.
Oh, my. You even dressed for it! 😮
Haha! I noticed his suit too! How dapper RFM!! :)
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and your testimony. Yes, others do have spiritual experiences. We are all children of God and we cane to this earth with the light of Christ. There are many good and faithful people of the world, who are not members of our church, but who are blessed by Heavenly Father.
Im sorry that your testimony was shaken by Paul H. Dunn. I remember him well, and what he did was definitely wrong. However, he is one man and not an apostle. He made some bad choices and paid the price for that.
As to your testimony of the Book of Mormon...that was a very powerful witness given directly to you. It came from Jesus Christ, and it was real. The Book of Mormon IS true. Dont let mortal men, or people's opinions, change that witness and truth. Of the 11 witnesses of the golden plates and the Book of Mormon, none of them ever denied what they saw and held in their hands. Some left the church, but they never denied their witness. Martin Harris even had his witness put on his headstone as a final witness to the world. If it was made up, and if they never saw the plates, why would they defend their testimony and witness and go through all the persecutions that they did? They had seen the plates, and they could not deny it.
Well this is a brilliant idea ❤ subscribed!
It's worth noting that "emeritus" is not a status automatically granted upon retiring from/leaving an academic institution: it is an honorific.
I find RFMs experience about reading the BoM and feeling like he could see to infinity in every direction very interesting.
When I was about the same age, 18, I had a very similar experience, but I was reading Wikipedia, learning about astrophysics and cosmology, which led me to realize that God didn’t need to exist, haha
I had such a delightful experience while reading A Course in Miracles and the Book of Mormon trilogy. It was truly a life-changing experience, as you can probably imagine. The profound wisdom and unparalleled depth of these literary masterpieces left me in awe. I mean, who wouldn't be completely captivated by the undeniable brilliance of these works? It was truly a journey like no other, and I am forever grateful for the valuable insights they bestowed upon me.
Wonderful, I love this! You look so nice in your suit and tie. Where is your white shirt? As a former member I begged my husband to wear a blue or patterned shirt.
I'm excited to listen to this podcast! BTW, I think there's a problem with your audio (I checked other videos and their audio is normal). Maybe you recorded on two mics at the same time?
I don't judge Paul Dunn too harshly. I, too, have used other people's stories as my own. Then again, I don't claim to be anything other than myself. I'm not trying to sell a mansion or a planet in the afterlife!
As a Never-Mo (from St. Louis, no less--[Cardinals??]) I thought I would have no reason to follow RFM's Mormon Sunday School. After watching tonight, however, I see that this will be as interesting as the other Mormon podcasts I follow. Mormonism has become a hobby of mine since running across Mormon Stories and expanding out from there. RFM can always be counted on for fascinating content!
Makes me wonder if they withheld his second annoying? And I also have "many things that are true are not useful" type quotes coming to mind.
Last time I went to sunday school was more than 20 years ago. The church was kiling me. No matter what I did I wasn't good enought. I felt guilty for most of this 20 years During covid with more freetime I started following ex mormon programs. I can't believe how much I was lied for almost all my life . I am free now. I'm still a member nobody in my life knows it. I won't write a letter to the church to let them khnow where I am 😂😂
Pd I remembered Paul H Dunn' talks and for sure where true. 🤦
Hey this is a great example of how Covid set you free so to speak!! Congrats!!
Love your laugh RFM!!
Your visions during your reading the BOM just blows my mind - and that it happened every time for you. I just gotta shake my head. I mean, if McKonkie told me that it would take one to ONE THOUSAND times to receive spiritual confirmation, I would probably see Jesus Christ himself and hear Moroni landing on my roof with his Santa’s sleigh aglow. By the thousandth time I would be so indoctrinated that I would not know up from down.
Human beings are wired to think spiritually. The LDS church takes advantage of that.
Great episode! Looking forward to more.
I’m looking for a in depth study. I was baptized in 1974 and I want something that gets me into the scriptures. I hope you can help.
Moroni's promise is ONLY directed at Lamanites. The book does not claim that the promise will work for any non-fictional people. So, those who are leaving out this important fact, are gravely mistaken about the claims made by the Book of Mormon text.
Thank you RFM! If I may say so myself-You are a marvelous work and a wonder.
I appreciate all your hard work on behalf of truth telling.
And a huge Praise Be for Lynn Packer!!
🙂Thank you RFM, now I'm more motivated to go read the lesson. 😂😂😂
Just finished reading....RFM 1, CFM Curriculum 0
I quickly listened to the big CFM podcasts to see if they expounded on “for the Lamanites”. The answer is 🚫no! Some focused on Jew and Gentile “that means everyone!”, some didn’t even read the phrase at all, and one just said, “I don’t know who they are” so moving on!
Excellent take-aways! Truth is always True. Our perception of Truth is not necessarily "true"
This is awesome
Also, I love the reverent voice you use. 🤣🤣
You kind of went way off topic. Not sure what Paul Dunn has to do with the introduction to the BOM. You should really base your testimony off Christ and not Paul Dunn. I'll pray for you brother. I hope you are able to regain your testimony of the BoM as the promise from Moroni states.
I'm guessing this will be playing under the Mormon Discussions Podcasts Lineup as well?
What was his misconduct? How can you leave that out? What a tease RFM!
He was the John ByTheWay of the 60s, it sounds like.
I was there for both and I think that’s a good comparison. Paul Dunn was a general authority, though, so there’s that. 😊
What on earth does this podcast have anything to do with the study of the BOM.
Very disappointing
Nobody’s going to mention the lack of Marvel t-shirt? Looking good, RFM! This is a fabulous idea; I can’t wait to listen to what you have to say this year.
I must admit that after due study and prayer as well as consideration of the supplemental material presented here, I do indeed find the church's offerings to be marvelous in my eyes.
Not so impressive in my brain though.
I am so excited about this series!
The conditional verbiage being used is pretty stark compared to when I grew up in the ‘90s
I want RFM as my gospel doctrine teacher for 2024.
Thank you for this faithful reading of come follow me! I love the scriptures!
Thanks, RFM. I had a spiritual confirmation about Jesus being my Savior, but it was coupled with confirmation that JS was a prophet. Now that I know what a conman JS was, I can't put much trust in my confirmed belief in Jesus, either.
If he'd had a Second Endowment, is he absolved of all wrongdoings anyhow? Maybe that's one reason the penalty isn't mentioned.
First Sunday School I’ve ever looked forward to. Love RFM!
In My Opinion, you do not hit the Introductory section at all. You talked about you. A summary or explanation of the chapter would have been better.
I especially like your takeaway #3: be very careful about how you interpret spiritual experiences! We are conditioned to think in certain ways a lot more than I believe any of us realize, and in my experience: _any_ message of God coming through to _anyone_ is going to be colored and or truncated by the limits of _what the receiving mindset will allow_ ... let alone what complications are going to be further imposed by trying to communicate the same to any additional mindset. To actually glean _truth_ from an experience, therefore, this perspective effect must _always_ be accounted for. Only then can it be objectively tested against the God=Love definition to determine how holy it really is.
My testimony of the BoM is based on observations of my own journal writing, actually. I started journalling at age 8, and when in later years I read back what I wrote - 2 types of entries struck me with very different interest levels. An entry that was strictly historical (simply detailing what I actually did) was easily boring to reread, while an entry that tried to describe an idea, thought, or learned concept was infinitely more valuable and interesting. I believe scripture is much the same way. The most valuable elements of it are an effort to communicate deeply important ideas, thoughts, or concepts (parables!)... which get very messed up when interpreted as historical. As the D&C accurately states somewhere, God's commandments are (& have always been!) spiritual, not temporal. The fact that history is all about what is temporal, should tell us to look at all scripture through a much more conceptual lens. We'll be able to realize the truth better that way.
Thank you for doing this! I hope to share in your journey regularly with insights of my own.
(and I grew up somewhat near you, it sounds like! I wonder if we could possibly have ever met.)
RFM, you are the best man.
Oh geez. I'm still waiting for the introduction to the Book of Mormon. Sigh...
McConkie quote and Moroni 10:3-5 at 4:52. What happens if you do read the BM and pray about it and the answer is the whole thing is made up?
#5 is devastating.
Loved this, subscribed, and plan on listening every week (Also a monthly donor). Apart from TH-cam, can I find this on a podcast App, so i can listen as I am driving? Its not showing up on the app i normally use to listen to your regular podcast, and Mormonism Live and Mormon Discussions etc.
This is a spectacular idea and I loved your first lesson. Thanks for this. These lessons will be of great help when discussing the lessons with our tbm family and friends.
Hi! Will it be on Spotify as well? 🤗
I’ve been praying for you to teach about your AMAZING Knowledge and understanding of the BOM…I’ve been listening to your podcast RELIGIOUSLY (no pun intended)…now this popped up! The Lord has answered my prayers…keep up the EXCELLENT and well cited work RFM!!
Who or what creates your feelings of love or anger or happiness or sadness or boredom? The answer is your brain. Who or what creates your spiritual feelings? Same answer. It is not the Holy Ghost or Jesus or an angel. Sacrament meetings didn't give me spiritual feelings; I just felt incredible boredom and occasionally the need to laugh.