Oil burning Warranty issue found on Rover P4, have a look at this!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ค. 2024
- We catch up with you after not putting a video yesterday guys due to our track day at Thruxton, we see how Issac’s first performance engine build is going, plus, we have stripped the Rover P4 engine after complaints of oil burning and we think we’ve found the issue!
- ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
You have a life to live, you have a family to be with, you have a workshop to run. This is a enough for many people. You do all that AND do the videos for us… do not feel bad if you have a “off day” feel Sh1T……. The ones who care will stick with you…… the others who may complain have probably done nothing and just are members of the “you should” society. Your doing grand the comments support this.
Know you where concerned about the haters and some negative comments but When you see the pictures by Arya it just brightness the day so what if some idiot says some thing silly, big shout out to Arya, hope she gets to meet all the crew and has a guided tour, those pictures are worth more that any medal.
It shows that you stand behind your work and not afraid the show that mistakes can happen and they will happen no matter how hard you try not to.. That engine is designed. I'm sure it's not fun to put the pistons into the block. I'm sure there's a special tool, but I'm sure it's probably extremely hard to find and get an extremely costly.
Seem to remember Chick Doig Triumph and MG in Kirkauldy lending me a funny ring compressor for my charge hands 6 pot rover back in the early 1980's , like a normal one with an angled slice out of it .
Honesty is the best policy, we all make mistakes...in the long run the customer will be happy for the respect.
Yes Lee as well as the track car good bits and engineering parts , always like the bits where it goes wrong as we all know they do from time to time , but as they say , that's the real life , and as we also know we are only human , so good on ya and well done
Don't let the trolls get you down enjoy your videos
Epic drawings by Arya - you need a dedicated wall for Barum Engines fan art.... 😀
Digging in the depths of my memory, (mainly 2.6 and 3l experience) Rover used to supply via Churchill a 30 degree wedge for want of a better word that was bolted to the top of the block to bring the top of the cylinder block back to 90 degrees to the bores. This was certainly used to assist boring the cylinders, I don't know if it could be used for inserting the pistons. Whether anyone ever used the 'proper' tool is another thing altogether! The other thing to watch is the totally useless rubber o rings used to seal the valve stems which go rock hard after a very short period of use and let loads of oil past esp on the over run. This type of ioe engine will always use a fair bit of oil - it's how they were back in the day.
Just a heads up. On Harley barrels make sure you use a torque plate set-up. I have done hundreds of them and they will distort several thousandths when torqued down. Boring them or even just honing them without a torque plate will result seriously distorted barrel when torqued down on the block. Like I said just a heads up. My just door neighbor at my shop was a Harley shop so we were constantly doing Harley machine work. Keep up the good work.
This was something special from Arya, really brought a tear to my eye, always amazing to see any younger ones interested in engineering or motorsport.
Good on you for putting your hands up on the P4 👍
It's 0.495" for the Harley cylinders if I remember right, used to bore them in a few hours taking 0.030" cuts. (boring bars didn't have enough power to take more)
The alloy cylinders are cast onto rough cast liners, I forget if outside was treated to improve bonding?
Converts the under-powered 'Evo' Sportster 883 to 1200cc. (883 only makes 44-46BHP, less if someone fitted 'drag pipes' which don't actually work below 8,000rpm when your lucky to get 36-38bhp)
I was teaching the 'Machine Shop' course at MMI, (Motorcycle Mechanics Institute, Orlando Fl.)
Students brought their own parts and I taught them to bore an hone to size. (as well as teaching to measure Metric and Imperial in a 3 week course)
'We' did loads of them around 2003-5, so many Harley stopped selling pistons and only sold complete bolt on 1200cc cylinder kit for $800 compared to around than $110 for pistons/rings/pin (although you could still get aftermarket piston kits)
Actually had a few people get size perfect to less than 0.0001", by hand as we didn't have honing machine (Sunnen hone in electric drill)
The course closed down a few years ago (around 2016)
You know there are good and bad companies, and everyone makes mistakes but what makes a good company is when a mistake is made they correct it and have a satisfied customer who comes back for future needs and recommends them to others because they care about the customer, from what I see you do this and that is why you have a very good business, Thank you for the videos.
Really honest content is what we want and what we enjoy, really nice ending with Aria I must admit it poked my manly heart to think of her love for cars, maybe send a care package for her? let her know she's loved by the community set it up and I'll chip in.
Glad you found the P4 problem ... Hard to figure how the rings got pinched but sometimes these things happen especially when specialist tools are unavailable ..... unfortunate ..... Well done for being open about it and well done to Arya for her efforts ! ! !
I may be wrong but because of the angle of the block and vavles I think the pistons on the P4 go in through the bottom with a ring clamp so as not to damage the rings...it's been many years since I worked on one...1969 to be precise....👍👍
First thing I thought mate
I'll bet the crankshaft went in first as per most engines.
@@richardmessenger9474I have somewhere a P5 manual that my brother had for his 3 litre I can even remember the reg number
LFN12 E lol I will hunt it out and see if there is anything in there about putting the pistons in. I had the same engine in lower compression and 2600 cc form in my first series 3 109" Lwb Land Rover.
The mark of any company is how you deal with problems, in this case a warranty claim. Seems to me that you are doing it the right way.
Worth so much to know how you stand by your work
Lee there are video on ring gaping machines and the deburring of the gap to stop scoring . The file method does not help.
Kit from down under
The warranty stuff and how you deal with give customers confidence that if they use you, if it is your mistake you will not try to wriggle out of it and help them fix. That’s massive today, I help out at a car sales place and business has doubled in 18 months and I think that’s down to us helping customers who buy a car and they have issues. Our feedback on google and other platforms gets us lots of sales. After the joke issue, I watched a utube blogger who I watch to help me fix my Land Rover. His channel has suddenly introduced a disclaimer that his channel is for entertainment. He films total LR rebuilds and details each nut and bolt. Not sure why it appeared, his channel is britannica restorations. Sad it might that.
Been following this channel for a while. Love the content, very good technical content... Love to see some real craftsmen at work! Thx, keep up the lovely video's!
don't feel too bad about 'jokes', as a Veteran I can assure you that yours couldn't upset an angels & our military sense of humour would have the snowflakes in a real spin!
I may just be a fuddy duddy but I would feel better if you had a big “white board” to keep track of the status of all your jobs in progress….I love your channel and it is always a kick to re live my time in UK!
Quality vid as usual thanks. Putting yourself out there invites alot of scrutiny and it's not something I could handle at all, so credit to you Lee for how you've made a success of the channel. No point dwelling on the odd bump in the road, just keep on doing what's made you successful this far.
If you can't shake the bug just give yourself a day off and rest up. Sometimes your immune system can get abit worn down without you realising. That's certainly happened to me occasionally.
Back in the day I had a Datsun 1200 ute daily driver work car. One day at lunch went up the shop while there I dropped a valve seat, clanging away it was then all of a sudden popped back in. Luckily got back to work. On the way home from work popped into the local wreckers picked up a complete motor for $50 bucks as I new the guy. When I got home pulled the motor down and threw a re-ring kit in it which just so happened to be on my bench with bearings and seals, light hone with a pineapple chucked it all back together. No ring gap done no plasti gauge no measuring no nothing really just cleaned it. Swapped out the motors all done by 10.30pm ready for work the next day. I drove that motor hard everyday for 2 years and was still going with no problem when I gave it to my apprentice. Lucky I guess!
You didn't have brake and clutch place by any chance? That's all they ever seemed to have 😂
Hope everything is alright with you Lee, i've been binge watching and noticed you're sick a lot!
Stay safe, love your videos and worksmanship.
I did not think you were going to give us a video today but you have thanks
I used to work with a guy who was a car mechanic in the dim and distant, he told me he had a P4 that used too much oil. He rang up Rover's service department about it and when he told them the m.p.p.their answer was "Oh! You've got a good'un!.......
It is always good news to find the smoking gun, no matter who's at fault. So much can go wrong during a full engine refresh. Anyone who says otherwise obviously has never done it
Cheers Lee, good honest content as per. See you on the next one.
Another interesting video Lee, great to see your kids in a recent video. With such young viewers you'll need to watch when you use 'workshop expressions' 🤔😳😂. I was in engineering workshops most of my working life so I have probably heard most of them 🤗. Best wishes, Bob M.South Wales
Yo
Regardless of the fault, you owned up.. you will get miles out of the transparencies. That was impressive on your part to point it out. Kudos and great work, much more fun to be had. Wrench on.
Thanks Lee, throughly enjoy the channel, you will always get the negative people who always think they know best and slate anyone with a good ethic and honest, carry on mate, doing a great job 👍
Thanks a lot Gary, means a lot comments like that 👍
Take it easy and don't be concerned about your videos being late we all know your busy qnd have a family life as well your own health comes first before any videos
Sweet that Arya came by to visit. Please place a date and age on the pictures, that way as time goes by, we can watch her grow up, if she wishes to make more pics. ;-)
The Chev 348/409 engines had no combustion chamber in the heads. The block deck surface was machined not at 90° to the bore but at an angle, maybe about 10°. To allow piston ring installation, the tops of the bores in the angle region were bored a bit further than the rest of the bore. This allowed use of a ring compressor to seat at 90°to the bore. I am not sure of the amount that was relieved but it would be something like 0.080".
Appreciate your P4 piston looks to be the cause. No mention of the valve seals, presumably their condition is good, thought you would consider them
The amount of engins you go through you can expect a problem from time to time .at least youmare going to fix the problem.
👍👍👍
Hi Lee just a comment about the half overhead landrover engines, we had one when I was young and can remember dad and his mates grumbling about how much oil they used from new. They didn't smoke a lot but they managed to use lots. I rebuilt a 1953 model in the 80s without ring clamp and it runs great,but it sure uses oil. Get in touch with the Series 1 club in the uk and I'm sure they will agree. The stuck rings on your example will stop the smoke when rectified but probably not help the consumption. Good luck.
Love your videos lee.
I still have a Westlake head for a 2.6 like that. With the intake bolted on. Also a few other parts, like rocker covers, land rover internal plating for the 6 pot and what not.
Get in there with the new vids ❤
Nice one👍
Lee, first of all best wishes for a quick recovery. I'm wondering about the other Volvo pistons, as they all seem to have a lot of oil grime on the tops. Could the oil control rings all be too tight? I'd be inclined to re-ring all 6 holes with a light hone. A fresh start to success.
With the tapered face does that mean the pistons should go in from below rather than above ?
Put them in from the bottom
My engine builder has a ring compressor thats got a tapered bottom section specifically for the Rover engines.
love to see a video on a tour of a parts store to see what they sell there and what prices are there. might be stuff there people cant get in their location even
Hey young man! Getting a "bug" every now and then is a byproduct of having young children. Not fun. Be good. Remain safe. Go out and have a Deluxe day!
Every being the operative word. I've never been sick as often as now that both kids are at school.
MR2 engine looks like it needs a Safety Turbo! 😉 #ProjectBinky
The number you do and never see again. Are…. The few that we see and see you again … give the numbers. And so we will know it 1% that come back or 50% that come back. This will stop the “Oh no not another one!!” Shouts from the arm chair typists
At the end of the day it’s an unintentional mistake, it happens. On the plus side no one got hurt!
Well done another excellent video, family first and keep looking after yourself.
Unfortunately people are very anal about things especially jokes and tuning lol everyone is an expert, but you seem like someone who cares. Keep trying your best that’s all you can do, but when on TH-cam people will give you a poke, no matter what you do, you seem very knowledgeable in what you do.
Keep trying hard, excellent work and always interesting.
hello Lee,
Is there any chance of seeing the work on the Harley barrels? As a biker myself i do follow the work you do on car engines and track car engines, however it would be nice to see the work you do on bike barrels etc. (and the FireBlade engine didn't exactly come from a car,,,,,,,,, did it?).
right that's enough winging from me,,,,,,,,,, great channels and posts,,,,,,, keep up the good work 😎😎
People obviously have never worked in a workshop if they think no mistakes are made.
Justin your right , theres many as in life mistakes are made in workshops of any nature but they are usually covered up , that's why Lee's company will survive as he shows warts an all , and shows to customers he honours his guarantees, which I'm sure your aware in life this is not always the case
One of those things in life, if you're honest about yourself some people will see it as an opportunity and have a go, pathetic, but that's some people.
Please let me know next time you are in Thruxton as I live in Thruxton and would love to meet yourself and the team.
same but Southampton-not far
The ring/piston issue on No1 doesn’t really explain the carbon build up on the other pistons ?.
Why couldn't you fit pistons from below instead of top that tapered?
Good god that's a brand new set of Pistons . Whey is there so much buildup on the piston crowns? You might want to check the breather system..
Will soon have Gus Hunnybun on the Chanel
P.S. massive respect to you for showing us all that goes off, warts n' all, for want of a better description. Why your only at 42k (which is a massive achievement anyway) is beyond me.
Does anyone know the link to the original rover p4 build
Are you a bit concerned about the amount of carbon you showed on #6 piston given that the only pro9blem is on #1 piston ? I would check crankcase ventilation, oil being pushed down the inlet guides, can't remember what guide seals these had, perhaps umbrella seals on the intakes.
All explainable by insane blowby on #1, will take a lot of oil with it into the remaining cylinders.
Could you not put the P4 pistons in from below then you dont have the problem with the sloping head?
Weird looking at those Rover internals... dinky narrow pistons and really long stroke conrods... British engines were seriously undersquare back then... something to do with tax being based on piston bore I think ..
Boring the Harley barrels out a bunch sounds like boring 882 Sportster barrels to 1200cc. In North America we have long distances and ladies like the low seat height of the 882 Sportster, but they find it difficult to keep up to the big bikes. Bore then to fit the 1200 Sportster pistons which is pretty much a dropin once bored.
Love the drawings, stuff the haters they winge on at anything.
This Rover engine is supposed to have the bores chromed to the best of my knowledge. I don't suppose anyone bothers these days.
Looks like a set of gt750 barrels on the floor.
Thought that myself. I had a 1973 Le Mans with some porting, lots of polishing, smooth bores and expansion chambers. It would stand straight up with a twist of the throttle and sticky tires. Wouldn’t corner worth a damn though.
And some of the comments were just plain hilarious 🤣🤣 Dude every time I see that kind of engine, I wonder how many mushrooms did the engineer have to eat before this became a reality for him. Oh yeah, had a customer with a 1970's Rover 3500, what is up with that DiDion tube and that bizarre intake. Yup we got it to run great thanks to my Jag experience but what a weird car. Icing sensor 🤔 ?????
Blue Mule
Re the P4, my only point is brief stuff out. If you know how to avoid the issue, make sure the guys/girls know too?
SUGGESTION. Upload videos only once per week, to reduce your stress levels.
The F head was unlucky, normally they rebuild in a barn on a bay bale, and no worries. :o)
Some people just do not have a sense of humous. Of course there is all the forms of humous; physical, verbal, slapstick. English humous I get as not everyone understands the dry method of presentation. When you understand it, it knocks you on your arse.
If you can not have some humous in a day, you are buggered.
Warts and all, sh?t happens!
They may have used normal oil. Should have used mineral oil to run it in.
Dont worry about the joke that backfired, it happens. Shame about the P4 issue, it happens. Main thing is you are looking after your customer and getting it sorted 👍. Sack the bloke that damaged the piston, now who would that be!
Dont feel bad about your joke falling flat mate , plenty of us have done worse
I blame there recipient for not getting my bad jokes
I say piss on the cry babies who called you out on the joke. The way you said the clearance was fine. Any real mechanical person would understand the clearance to be piston to wall in the first place and good on you for putting that little Easter egg into the vid for the ones who get bored with the hum drum basics that bores us to bits. If the ones who take what you do to heart and use your info as gospel and don't know the difference between cheeky fun and reality should NOT OWN TOOLS. And need to just pay someone to do their junk
Lay off the drugs
its entertainment !!!! have a laugh and a joke, maybe make it a bit more obvious, otherwise there's no fun
Good show Lee, we would all like to be perfect all the time but we’re human i’m afraid lol 👍👍👍
Lee, do me favour old bean if you would be so kind; please don't drive in a spirited fashion while ill as the brain's reaction times are often out of whack. I've done it myself and thankfully escaped (missus was watching, i realised how daft I was being. Or "focused", if i were writing my memoirs...) unscathed but have regretted the event almost as much as if I'd had a bump. None of us want you doing a Toivonen on a suspiciously mild left-hander... 😀 Just ask our Jackie, safety first! Mother Henning over, I promise.