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Inner Integration thank you so much for your videos and guidance. It has been invaluable to me. This is one of the darkest chapters in my life as I am trying to fully break free of my cover narcissist ex wife. Without your videos and the community on TH-cam I would be completely in the dark.
Yes I have encountered them, every woman I was ever romantically involved with, was such and unfortunately I have found aspects of self in some of these descriptions. Evidently, NPD and co-dependant families culture empaths for life long supply. We can find these elements in literature: Dracula by Bram Stoker, The hunchback of Notre Dame by Victor Hugo, Frankenstein by Mary Shelley, Magick in theory and practice by Aleister Crowley. Please like this helpful video
@@spasticclown I'm 4 months discarded from my ex wife as well, we have 2 little ones and when it all happened, I was so confused until I learned about covert narcissism and things started to make sense. This has been the most painful experience of my life but it's getting better little by little.
David Radford I can totally relate she showed me my Mom was a covert for 52 years of my life I never knew there was a name for her Then my husband comes Overt while I’m researching my Mom he came out of the woodworks Now I’m on Utube and own a large collection of books!! If she comes out with the Covert I’ll definitely buy that one I need more information on their behaviors and do you just leave and tell them Or do you just get out behind thee backs?? His ex left with his Son and everything behind his back after 28 years I can now see why Being a Empath I gave him everything I’m now disabled with a nerve disease RSD/CRPS he sure don’t help my pain levels that’s for sure with his emotional 😭 moods he pushes in this house when and where he wants them... It’s rough I pray for you and for your wife for she’s with the devil and need prayers too!! That’s all we can offer them is a Prayer from God Pray they wake up before it’s too late..
Cognitive dissonance is the most horrible part of the experience. At some point the brain figure out the the truth, but all the memories of her/him come as of a decent-victim. Often leading to long term feeling of guilt and doubting oneself! Is exhausting!
I ran across 2 hero narcs last year. My bells and whistles went off when they both gave me the death stare when I declined one of their help offers. Theyre know-it-alls and guilt trippers, too.
@@chamomiletea5424 Yes! My mom too! The worst thing is that all the verses she uses to condemn or hammer you with are the very ones she needs to apply to herself. Sadly, she successfully drove most of her kids away from God even though she herself is the very devil. It's so messed up.
God, he used to give me what I will call the death stare too. They peirce or like eat you with their eyes if they are not happy about something. Is that a narc thing?
@@leahc8347 I know the covert narc death stare well. Also, they sometimes follow your every move like you are their prey. I refer to it as "shark eyes." My Mom could practically burn a hole through me with that intense stare.
@@cheatednomore6430 Absolutely 👌. There is another type of stare (Im guessing it is or similar to "shark eyes") where they kinda lower their brow and stare or while smoking deeply, looking and judging for for a short or prolong periods like energetically summing you up and down it feels, in a deep contemplation, and you just wonder what are they thinking and going in their head! But thats my experience from a 'hero' covert type, but the plain outgoing manipulative aggressive type have the death stare more quite obviously but not so self soul queezying- if you get me... yeah, been around and grown up between to many, (excuse my languge) sh*theads, Ive basically sworn off all people connection at the moment, feeling quite lonely and feeling the pain, but the last covert ended up being metephorically, an utter terrorist to my soul, Im healing and waiting till Im stronger to try to connect and trust again , hopefully now more aware who I can trust, but at the moment going through a painful detox. I hope I find decent people soon and know how, and not gravitate to the familliar again. Many blessings, and healing vibes to u too. I know how crushing it can be if its a parent who is emotionally disfunctional and grow up thinking its you. Much hugs.
My mother is a covert narcissist and she loves playing the victim but she is also altruistic and pretends to deeply care about people. Of course, every time she helps she expects something in return, usually a lot more than she gave.
Francisco Ramirez España Garcia yes, both types can co-exists in the same person! She pretends to be a heroin for her family but a victim in front of people.
Thanks for sharing Francisco. My mom is a covert narc. I recoginzed her when she refused to apologize to her doctor. That was the tip of the icebearg for me. She is so generous n learned lady to the world. As a writer I can see now that she has killed my dad. My story: - Holy Cow! My Mom Is Trump! medium.com/@mamtanarang/holy-cow-my-mom-is-trump-bde2aaa9344f
Zaeinab Afsari most of the time she pretends to be a victim mostly to family and close friends and a heroin to strangers. Yet she plays either role as it suits her.
Mamta N I read your article you linked as well as your, “An Ode To My Narcissistic Mom”. It resonated with me. You are very brave. I hope one day I can see it through your eyes. I still have a lot of anger and grief to process. Thank you for sharing. 💕
I was married to the hero covert for 37 yrs. you nailed it. He’s a “minister”. He used the victim card when his back was against the wall. I’ve been away from him almost 2 yrs now. I’m steadily getting healthy emotionally, physically and spiritually at the age of 65... Thank you Meredith. You have been a huge part of my healing journey.
Leslie we have 4 adult children and the response and support for me has been 100% except for our youngest daughter who is like her father. She now refers to me by my first name. It’s heartbreaking but not surprising.
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Tracey, your best years are ahead of you. Despite your experience with a man of the church, I would love for you to listen to Bishop T D Jakes and RC Blake, they help me out so much. Keep the faith. Love
Regina Polo thank you for your kind words. I do follow R C Blakes and absolutely love this man. Listening to him helped me open up to reading my Bible again.
@@breakthroughmoment1647 Yes that sounds familiar too or you're so sensitive. It was only recently when I realized Ive never done and said these things to anyone, I think they all learn from the same book!
Covert Narcissist are worser than overt narcissist especially since they are more sneaky than the overt type . Covert Narcissist are Wolves in sheep's clothing . You really have to watch your back dealing with these type of people .Yes they are both hero and victims . They always brag about how good and caring they are . Sounds like my narc ex and my father he's always playing dumb he's very douchey .
My parents played this “swaparoo” game to a T. They were, surprise, both “victims” of each other! And both “heroes”! Guess what! They are BOTH wounded/vulnerable/covert narcissists!! I’m alllll done being played by those two master manipulators. They really work off of others’ sympathy but I saw them, called them on it and they know there’s no supply left with me so they moved on. It helps that I put up my boundaries and don’t get pulled in by occasional attempts at hoovering.
I was just going to ask if that was possible. I know someone that fits the description of a Victim CN when with me but then fits the description of the Hero CN when with family. Kinda like a switch in personalities...
I think they can definitely play both roles or switch when convenient for them. I know someone who will go above and beyond to help you. He claims he can see the potential in people (mostly young women, or young college athletes) and he can help bring out the best in them. When they do actually grow from his help he then tries to get in good on all their newly acquired resources by playing the victim and making ppl feel obligated to be there for him since he helped them all this time. If he didn’t think you had any potential to offer him something in the near or far future he wouldn’t give a rats ass about helping you.
My dad was the philanthropic sophisticated narcissist. Everyone loved him. And of course, everyone hated me for being such an awful child. How dare I grey rock my own father who did so much for others. I was an only child, and he'd find children in the neighborhood to use as his golden child projects. I laugh when I look back, tired of crying. I ended up with 2 vulnerable narcissists who sucked the life out of me. The first one I'm still unsure, maybe he was borderline. But the second, he was *no doubt* a narcissist and he's the lesson that opened my eyes to what personality disorders are. I gave this man everything, love, support, money, etc. He sucked 3 years of my life dry, til I had nothing left. When the money tight, he started explosive fights over mundane life things. When he left, I was left confused by the entire relationship. He had no problem moving on like the years spent together meant nothing. Like a child who discards a toy. I want to keep thanking you Meredith for all that you do and the information you put out there helps *save lives* . Yes.
@@TK-pv4uq thank you very much. I'm in a much better place right now, married a loving emotionally mature person. Which is a further eye opener to what normal is. I now realize everyone in my past, from family, friends to relationships was plagued with abnormal behavior. I watch these videos because I still have residual ptsd, but I love participating in discussions and providing examples to help others in creating more awareness regarding abusers. Wishing you the best as well if you're a survivor.
Anonymous the narc I'm dealing with is a covert one .. most of the times he play victim but he is both depends on the situation.. can you please tell me if these victim types gives us the suicidal threats do they have tendencies to commit suicide? Whenever I tried to leave him he used to give me these threats .. then I left and told him suicidal threats are the worst thing you can do to a girl he said he didn't gave any . He even mentioned that oh I might have said this to you once or twice but not more than that .. then I showed him his threats he be like oh that was the inner child in me who was like that I got scared that you'll leave .. then he mentioned that he has harmed himself in the past because of me ! Though it's been two months now I left him completely no contact but I'm still scared .. can you please guide if possible 🙏🏻
@@niti470 you're unfortunately dealing with someone who has bpd with possibly comorbid narcissism. You know how in airplanes they always tell people to wear the safety oxygen mask first before putting it on their children - you'll have to apply this to yourself in relationships. Never feel responsible for someone else's sanity, pain and mental being. You did amazing going no contact and I suggest you keep doing that. If you started off sane, dealing with a cluster-b personality can be the tipping point of insanity. If you come from broken place (like many of us I'm assuming), then it will only make things worse for you. If this person threatens suicide again, call a hotline anonymously if you can and report their potential suicide. And only if you're plagued with guilt. And only the one time. Other than that they are *NOT* your problem. They're playing emotional games with you. GET OUT. I swear there needs to be another *Get Out* movie, except this time about narcissim instead of racism.
My husband of 32 years, is sicker then I thought, he's a definite combo of both. By the grace of GOD I survived his abuse. I learned so much thank you for your videos.
Three years ago last month I took my abuser and myself to the homeless shelter. It was part of my exit plan cuz I couldn't go anywhere or do anything without him being right there. At the shelter they separated men from women and I really needed that to begin creating distance. His behaviors worsened and others witnessed us in my vehicle and him verbally coming unhinged on me. Well, I left him there like leaving a dog at the pound. This month is my three year no contact. I think it was my second night at the shelter, I was laying in bed watching videos and that was my introduction to you. Your video on when to bury the hope was my wake up call. Not the emotional or financial extortion or my reputation being lended from then ruined, no. It took a video. Your video was so spot on and perfect and broke through whatever trance I seemed to be in. I seriously cannot thank you enough for all that you do!!! By any chance do you have any videos, besides the narcissistic fleas video, that goes into the learned behaviors we pick up and how to knock it off? I know I'm not a narcissist cuz I wouldn't have lasted nine years with one if I was but I sometimes find myself behaving badly, then I sometimes physically glitch from the awareness then do my best to knock it off. Any links you could share on this would be much appreciated. Thank you so much. Hugs from Montana.
Gypsy Feet...it will get better. For your psudoname sake, move on, to totally different place. In my case, I became much more financially successful (relative), and independent, when I moved away from all that triggered me, and out of reach of all residue of the damage done. I let my faith guide me and it did me justice. Much love
I’ve been watching so many videos in this genre that I can’t help but face my own narcissistic traits and defects. Sometimes it’s, “oh, I used to do that,” or “I feel convicted so Jesus please help me walk less like that and closer to you and your ways,” to “I’m actually doing this behavior (not answering the narc I still live with in order to not drag into fight) for the right reason and not a narcissistic reason.” Just beware of taking trip in denial river.
Gypsy feet it’s because you have been with him for a long time , you begin to mimic certain behaviours and you subconsciously think it’s okay. If you had stayed longer, you’ll notice that you would have gradually started behaving like a narcissist.
There it is folks, your typical career politician. My Mother, an ordained minister, is the hero type and when challenged can switch to the vulnerable type in a flip of a switch. That transformation takes about 2.2 seconds and is actually quite impressive to see. Her concern and worry for me was ONLY to get information and in turn sucked the life and energy right out of me. But those days are over, life is good. Absolutely spot on Meredith! Spot fucking on!!!
@@michellel75 They can use info for various reasons. To find out where you are vulnerable in order to exploit. What can they get from you,: emotionally, for instance sympathy or make you a flying monkey; financially, manipulating that sympathy for favors or loans, cash, car maybe, or place to stay, job opportunities, maybe even connections. Or they can use info in a more malignant way, like a smear campaign or even blackmail. I've had both done to me by different types of covert narcissists.
My ex wife is a textbook “victim” covert narcissist. It feels so weird sometimes because people very rarely see the “Mr. Hyde” side of her personality. She works so hard to create this persona of a “nice, put together” person but now that I’m aware of who she really is and now that I’ve been at the wrong end of her gaslighting, blame shifting, the circular arguments and rages her public image comes across as phony to me. Even her voice sounds different when she’s around others. It’s heartbreaking sometimes to realize that I never really knew the woman whom I was married to for 14 years and the mother of my children.
TA D it’s like you’re my twin. The EXACT same thing happened to me (except for the cheating...I think). Out stories are almost identical. After she kept devaluing me and chose her friends and pet projects over me and my children’s well being, after she nearly drained us financially over and over again, I got fed up and moved into the spare bedroom for a few days. Especially when she became physically violent. When she wouldn’t talk to me for a week I finally called her out and that night she called the cops. I wasn’t arrested but only after I had to call 911 to explain my side of things. Then the next day I tried to talk to her again, she projected ALL of her abusive behavior on me and said she wanted a divorce. I agreed but begged her to reconsider first. Then I suffered a breakdown and had to go to the hospital. While I was there she ordered a residential non return, which I obeyed, then she filed an order of protection, cut me off of our joint bank account, got a high priced lawyer, prevented me from seeing my kids for three months, ordered me out of our home under the police escort, her parents were outside the whole time videoing me and making the whole humiliating event even more horrible, then as I’m about to go they serve me with her divorce paper, this happened on FATHER’S DAY. Do not only am I having one of the worst days of my life but her flying monkeys decided to twist the knife and make it even more horrible. Then when I finally get visitation, after she voluntarily drops the protection order, her parents take turns yelling at me in public in front of my kids. She turned my sister against me, has smeared me to everyone, lying her butt off in the process. And the kicker is her gaslighting still continues as she just acts like “nothing happened.” Now keep in mind, I was a loyal, loving, patient husband who tried everything to work it out with her, from going to therapy, marriage counseling, making her and my children the priority in my life above everything. I was never a heavy drinker, drug user and I never cheated, I have been an excellent involved and loving father, I cooked, I cleaned, I work a full time job, I put up with her narc mother and broken codependent father. Now she also attends church and is playing the victim. claiming how I was so terrible and what an emotional abuser I was, even though if everyone knew her actual track record and witnessed her abuse they would be shocked. And she is so good at hiding who she truly is that there is no point in trying to let people know. She has twisted everything so badly that even if I were to try to clue people in that they’d never believe me. It’s so good to know that there are people that have shared experiences and videos like this and ones by Dr. Les Carter, Kim Sied, Little Shaman, Richie Grannon, et. al. It’s like I’ve been living in The Land of Crazy so long that being in reality seems so foreign at times. I still am hyper vigilant sometimes and do my best to stay no contact and avoid her.
This and the additional comments here are so identical to my experiences- I could have written them myself. I'll only add this- stay off meds offered by doctors who have good intentions but will make things worse. Find new hobbies. Hit the gym. Never look back. Love your kids
The voice change. Yes! Thank you for pointing this out, so true. It’s like a softer, friendlier tone when in public. That is heartbreaking. Happy you got out though.
I agree, Keep your head as clear as possible as you need your wits to see clearly and make solid decisions based from clarity. I avoid alcohol too as clouds my judgement
My mother--the hero. This meant she could be just as hurtful as she felt justified because "How could you be angry at me with all I've done for you!" A therapist even concurred with that and, though I didn't know what I was dealing with at the time, I didn't want to see that therapist any longer. But when I told another woman, a mother around the same age as my own, what my mother said her immediate response was: "All that she did for you should have been done out of love, not so she could always be blameless."
Truly, the only word that comes to my mind is INSIDIOUS! Whether vulnerable/shy or hero, coverts are masters of manipulation and master magicians - they've had years to "perfect" their craft. Such an excellent topic of discussion. Thank you so much, Meredith, for bringing this forward and differentiating between the two. Without this detailed explanation, many would still be stuck in the head screw!
about 30 years back my wife walked into a school hood friend. they started to go around together again. one day the friend asked to borrow $4 from my wife, the day my wife was to get the money back came and went. days later when my wife asked for her money back she got the money, but then later that day the friend started to complain about the times when I was around. she wanted my wife all to her self to con. at that my wife dropped her from our lives.
Empower Empaths ...my husband is most definitely the victim type...always blames, always deflects always denies, always gaslights...he has few redeeming characteristics any more...About the only honest thing he can do is be self serving and hopefully keep the books...Although I plan to cover myself when the time comes to leave his sorry a#$...I can see he will have abandonment issues, but do I care?
This is a great video. I struggled for decades with trying to put my finger on what was wrong with my mother and why I disliked her so much. She is definitely a covert narcissist. Both types that were mentioned here. Mostly the hero type. I finally had to get out of her life. She had almost devastated me most of my life. I was the scapegoat. I went no contact 3 years ago after 5 decades of this insidious abuse. I'm unlearning and relearning me now and am breaking the cycle in my immediate family. Unfortunately, my adult daughters have been affected by this and have distanced themselves from me due to her smearing. I pray that by me finally standing up, my grandchildren will one day understand that abuse will not be tolerated. 💜
My ex-narc was definitely a combo of both. He started off as the hero type for sure, then gradually started playing the victim card (not in a needy way, but more to get HIS way through sympathy).
I’ve been married to “Hero Covert” for nearly 40 years. I didn’t even know there was a covert N until a year ago. Listening to you and Dr. Les Carter on TH-cam. Dr. Carter made a list of covert traits that floored me. From your description we’re looking at a Hero. He has said on numerous occasions, “ I like to do favors for the neighbors so they owe me. I thought that was odd until I learned the truth. Also, he proudly suffers sexual addiction, and I haven’t had been allowed to enjoy intimacy during his gratification for decades. It’s all one sided, and if I object, I hear how selfish I am and he stomps out of the house. When the children were still young they’d ask, “ what’s wrong with Daddy?” Now I understand it was controlling manipulation techniques. And you hit the nail on the head. I have never been allowed my own feelings. If I ever stated something bothered or offended me, he explained that I was over reacting. But he was soooo nice. Folks commented on what a cute couple we were. I would just shake my head. I could go on for days.... but just know, with help from folks like you, changes are being made, and if I can survive the divorce, the sun is shining on the horizon.
I'm rootin for ya... your comment made me cry. I understand completely what you are enduring ... your story was mine 20 yrs ago. My prayers for your strength and freedom dear. You can do this!! BIG hugz
@@desire4liberation and Britany. It’s quiet here in my kitchen this morning and I’m viewing TH-cam comments and drinking coffee. I guess I feel like sharing this morning. The divorce and all the shuffling of stuff finally completed last Thanksgiving. My ( adult) daughter is not happy with me because I hurt her daddy and we’re not speaking , but my son was treated much like me so he gets it. Because I did my research well, the divorce was very favorable on my behalf. I feel vindicated. Weirdly enough, I don’t miss him. I thought with all the trauma bonding, I’d have to fight the urge to want to make contact , but nope! Every morning I wake up relieved. Life is good, quiet but good. Hope you are well also.
@@vicbaker8367 How wonderful. Thank you for sharing. Makes MY heart happy today and Yes quiet is good for me as well. Time to heal Vic and regain the inner-peace you have been robbed of for so long. Learning my role in the relationship is how I was able to understand what happened and why. So happy you are free from the direct manipulations. Your daughter has her own issues with him and she may come around for your support at some point.
I am married to a covert narc. He is a blend of both victim and hero, depending on which benefits him the most at any particular moment. It's EXTREMELY deceptive, and EXTREMELY rare if anyone realizes what he is. We have been married for 28 years, and out of our 2 dozen or so long-time friends, only ONE person has actually inquired of me about him and suggested to me that he has a problem, and that I am the true victim.
I think sometimes people notice but don’t say anything. They may not want to cause any drama or make you uncomfortable. He also may be talking to others about how concerned he is about you or how you don’t appreciate him. The movie Gaslight is a good example of how they control other people’s perceptions of you and them. I think finding a friend separate of the relationship can help. It helped me get some clarity
T. William, I was married to a covert narc for 28 years. Left one and a half years ago and now feel sooo much better! Being 60 years now, I go out dancing and really enjoy life again. I was so drained of my positive energy and never laughed, this is all coming back and people say I have changed so much for the better and we love having fun. It was the best Decision ever to go for divorce!
@@reginapolo3357 Yes, the age thing does help much methinks...makes it easier (yet also harder in ways too as you have described) to do the no-contact necessaries and also have all the exp / wisdom to move on and heal...yet even the young can be very astute in these regards. THankfully.
@@Suzu52 well of coarse, if you want to keep your energy to yourself, and or be alone, of coarse were just evil...haha. They truly have no shame in these regards with their accusations.
ive had covert "victim mentality" partners like this in the past and they either had drink or drug problems (or both) . I think my mother was one of these too which is why I attracted them before awareness
I've met the victim type. And it took me a long time to understand what he is. He never took responsibility for himself. The others are the "bad persons", responsible for everything that happend to him and he complained a lot about them.
That is soooo sad and disturbing. When I first watched the movie Mommy dearest my eyes were wide open. It gave me the silent validation that I wasn't imagining my childood, that my mother was to blame, that it wasn't me.
Yes, I’ve experienced both types intimately. And you are right, because they are so stealthy and I experienced their manipulative behaviors from young, it took me a very long and difficult time to figure them out. But it’s possible to do so! Use your intuition and instincts. Problem is the gaslighting and flying monkeys. However the cognitive dissonance will finally kick in, perhaps along with a dose of luck when you stumble upon a help resource like Meredith Miller! Thé Victime-Covert type is my 82yr old mother and she still plays the game! She now uses her age or increased frailty to manipulate, sometimes dangling a possible inheritance. I just try to enforce my boundaries and stay cognizant of her machinations. The Hero-Covert type is my paternal Aunt who acts like a Godmother to me and so tries to own me as well. But you reach a point where you cannot take the abuse and cognitive dissonance any more and just go No Contact. Admittedly it’s much easier because she is not my mother, and her increasing bad behavior is noted by other relatives who find it harder to act like a flying monkey if you stand your ground (now that I’m older and wiser!). I’m 52 now and I only started freeing myself from a lifetime of pain, confusion, hurt and shame in my late 40s. I truly wish I know what I now know earlier. But it is never too late People! Peace that comes from freedom is so very sweet. Thank you Meredith for being the Brave & Compassionate Lightworker that helps illuminate our darkness and helps us break free 🙏🏼
It's never too late! I'm 74 now, and did not comprehend how my covert narc mom trained the four sibs to play out their roles as flying monkeys and scapegoaters, until I was in my late 50s. She died in 2014 at age 93, surrounded by the four sibs and most of her grandkids and great-grandkids. She's still considered a saint, for everyone but me, and that's okay. What matters is that I'm not confused anymore. THANK YOU MERDITH❤
@@mishmish2261 Letting yourself feel the pain of realizing it was all about her jealousy, hatefulness and insecurities, and that she set you up to serve her sick purposes, that it's all even more sinister than you thought, it takes a long, long time to work through the resentment and for me, rage. But it really helps to go No Contact! I'm okay with feeling whatever my inner child wants or needs to feel.
That is inspiring. I am roughly the same age as you and my parents are close to your mom’s age. They are the hero, but victim if you don’t appreciate them. I’ve played the good, appreciative daughter for long enough that we get along. Their self praise and concern for me is insidiously manipulative, however. I’m torn, they are too old to tell them how I really feel, but by not telling them I feel disingenuous. Always the double bind, damned if I do, damned if I don’t, ugh!
Goldie H, I don’t know your situation as well as you do, but from all the resources I’ve read, watched and heard, telling them serves no purpose. They will not agree that they have a problem and will either deny or blame you for any problems. This goes too deep into their core and they will not risk what they’ve built up their whole lives to crumble. If you think telling them will help you heal through some form of acknowledgement or closure, you will need to do that without them. I think Meredith did a video on that. Peace and good luck ❤️
Marcia Noren, I agree, the best remedy is No Contact and I’m deeply grateful that for the most part I’m able to do that. I can’t do it 100% but maybe 70%? Feeling feelings and not stuffing them down is healing too. It is a process and sometimes I experience echoes of the old feelings of rejection, fear, anger and not being enough. Overall, I am waaaaay better than before. So keep moving forward Everyone!
YES! I completely agree with this overview. I have had experience with both kinds in the past year, and had to end my relationships with them, and it took me the longest time to figure out what was happening. The first was a meditation teacher who had this 'holy air' about him, and the second was a friend who had a series of unfortunate events. The turning point for me and the 'aha' moment of revelation was that I was feeling overwhelmed and like I wasn't getting to my own projects anymore, and I suddenly needed to take vacation days to regain my energy - which I hadn't planned. During that time, I told both of them I needed space, and both of them dropped their masks. The "guru" became more angry and frustrated and kept asking me to do more and more menial tasks, and then he'd ask me to explain and justify myself. The victim threatened suicide, among many other points of manipulative tactics. Both of them became very angry when they weren't getting the recognition they thought they deserved for their birthdays. Compare this to my good friends in life who said, "Oh, have a nice vacation!" and left me alone! So, I am learning a good test if you are unsure is to ask for time for yourself and don't respond to their emails, and just sit and watch what happens without reacting. I found both showed me their entire armory of tactics in the span of about two weeks. Thanks Meredith, for all of your education, because I wouldn't have been able to spotlight the indicators or clearly define the abuse if I hadn't watched your videos. The deal breaker that made me walk away was that I recognized my body was responding in fear and I was becoming more afraid of both of them. Your tools have helped incredibly in assisting my exits out of these traps! THANK YOU.
Yaaaassss! I can relate to the awareness that my life seemed to be in limbo, on hold while his life was running smoothly. My attention was on him and not me? My health had plummetted , my self identity had diminished, my hobbies were set aside. These were my first wake up calls too. I was so drained, waiting for everything to work out. I was just spinning my wheels going nowhere while he did what he wanted. I started noticing phrases he used repeatedly, repeat patterns of behaviour, he wood take ownership of things I did or said which was weird, entitled without merit. He took all the credit while shifting all the blame, big wake up call too
That summarized my last relationship. My time was "their" time, and any resistance was met with guilt, shame or indebted. My responsibilities were not important, nor my needs. All about them but to them it was all about me. Then I was thinking I AM really like that...
I've seen two narcissists get together in order to bully a target; though, I've heard that narcissists don't like each other. Also, they'll date each other, but frequently cheat and make excuses about their actions. I think the victim-narc will seek out hero-narcs, or even overt-narcs in order to appear to be the better person, or co-dependent in situations. All of them are highly manipulative and dangerous.
This rings true. In my case a covert narc ex reached out regarding a guy she was seeing who she worried was a love bombing narc. She was dead right. But it was interesting that as the passionate hero I started to become the passionate overt narc, sent on a rollercoaster due to her indifference. I ended it today as I heard myself rollercoastering and using overt manipulations. It's important to keep tabs on our own levels and to know what feeling whole means to us.
This is literally my parents..I wonder why my mother won't leave my father...then I found out they are both covert narcicist a hero type and a victim type playing like a prince hero and a dumbsel in distress... I am so afraid that we siblings might exhibit same attitude..I am seeing hero attitude on my younger brother and a victim attitude on my younger sister..I am so bothered..like I am seeing my siblings and my parents on other people too..at first my suitor is playing like a hero saving me but now I discover him to be so pityful but wouldn't admit it..and later on when he became my boyfriend I found myself saving him..I am afraid I might also manifesting a hero mentality..
Here's a good example of covert narcissism. I spent my entire youth listening to my mother complain about her hay fever - even though she smoked heavily (she never cared in the least how her smoking effected us kids, especially when trapped in the car in the winter when she wouldn't even let us open the window). I can remember as an adult talking to my older sister rather causally at a party about our own sensitivities and allergies when my mother came in the room and broke up the conversation and outright demanded we not talk about our issues. I remember thinking, hey no one is talking to you here. I think that was the first time I really noticed that she had clearly overstepped a boundary and that something was really off about my mother.
This is a very informative and helpful video, Meredith!! I have recently realized that a very "helpful friend" of mine is most definitely a hero CN. She actually helped me leave my abusive NPD ex. I had icky feelings with her for the past few years, but of course I minimized and turned my head to red flags. Thanks to your videos I have been able to trust my intuition about her, which I coupled with making a sobriety list about my past experiences with her that made me uncomfortable. Thanks for this invaluable insight! I am currently in the midst of trying to get rid of her out of my life, and as you pointed out, she has become very passive aggressive and guilt shaming in response to my boundaries. Ugh! I just want her gone from my life!
Dear Amanda. I had a friend for 30 years whom I 'saved' from her (allegedly) abusive husband 5 years ago. She lived with me close to 4 years and I was losing my mind. You really get to know someone when they live with you. Long story short.. I got her out of my house but she was hoovering... I blamed myself for not feeling right. I learned more and more.. and knew I had to get her out of my life completely... I didn't know how to do that.. Finally I just texted her that our relationship leaves me feeling resentful and in order for me to heal I need to be free of all resentments. That it is my responsibility for how I feel and that the freindship is over. please respect that. I got a text back.. short and sweet.. mirroring what i said to her. I tell this to you so maybe you can go NC too! you will feel so much better.. best wishes
@@desire4liberation I am so sorry to hear that you experienced this cruelty and I am proud of you for going NC with her. Sorry, I realize now that I wasn't really clear in my last post, I have been NC for a few months, and she just keeps popping up. I'm really proud of myself for the times that she has been in contact, I have managed to dodge her. I have absolutely no plans to connect with her ever. I have been doing a ton of research to heal my codependency tendencies. The more time that goes by, and more incidents that happen with her (and so many other narcs!!!), I am learning how to keep as much distance as possible considering the situations. I love my new world of inner peace and harmony and will do anything to keep it warm, healthy, and loving with boundaries and continual self-reflection and development. Take Care!!
My abuser bragged behind closed doors that he could kill me and get by with it. When he broke my foot and the courts let him by with it, then, I dare say he's right! I left with broken bones and my finances broken. Do yourself a favor, GET AWAY FROM THEM NOW!
My Narc totally played the victim roll and still is. I feel sorry for the next person who falls for a victim narc. The narcissist kept saying they were an empath. I believed that. They can be very convincing. I went No Contact one year ago. I’m feeling free and happy now, thanks to all of these TH-cam channels about Narcissism.
Scary finding a covert narcissistic disorder from a church leader where everything is kept confidential aka secret, and his flying monkeys become covertly involved. Watching your videos helped me tremendously in spotting them. I wish I've known earlier, I failed to guard my heart.
Leaders are usually narcissists, in my experience. Our society really rewards this behavior in general. It is only their victims that really suffer. My mother was always the first one to run when someone had a sick baby in the building or offer her services to an elderly person. All while lying about her own daughter, me, while I was innocently trying to make her happy. That's all over with now, I am no contact and couldn't be happier.
My mom is a covert narcissist. She has been successful in pitting me and my siblings against each other that all of us think that we have a legitimate beef with each other. I woke up to the fact that it’s my mom who is setting the drama up. Yet and still my siblings hate me and my mom acts as if she is dumbfounded to what is happening and also acts as if she hasn’t had a hand in making us have issues with each other. She tried to talk about my siblings to me and I wouldn’t entertain the conversation. I know that if she’s tried to do that with me, she definitely has tried with them. My siblings go along with my mom always so I’m not surprised that she would make them hate me. I’m just glad that I see her for who she is and I’m letting my siblings go so they can see for themselves without me being there to distract them. My heart and arms are open for them once they wake up but right now, I’m letting go and letting God. 🙌🏽
Wow, the same story here. But now my mom is in a nursing home. The trouble she use to cause is over, but believe it or not, she was able to last year to start up some lies against me. I am the BlackSheep of the family.
You made me realize that I should be more grateful as I am in a similar situation but my siblings see her as she is and we stay strong together, they support my decision to go no contact and I accept their staying in contact (I am in constant fear sometimes that they will be completely invaded by her but they are strong). My wishes go out to you, I really hope that something makes your siblings see the truth!
Thoughts of a Gemini Presents...Let’s Vibe! This is the same with me! I got tired of being the Golden Child. Not all golden children become narcissistic or like that they're favored. My mom wld favor me on purpose bc she knew it wld get back at another sibling that mad her mad. We also aren't very close bc my mom pits us all against each other but smh. My heart and arms are open to my siblings too once they wake up and I'm always praying for them but I will not be holding on either I'm giving it to God.
Thank you Meredith💕, this video was extremely validating! So many great points! My parents are a less sophisticated form of the hero type. It comes in the form of showing concern and worry. They were always saving me from myself. They are always offering help, saying they don’t expect anything in return. They become the victim when others don’t accept their help, take their advice or don’t appreciate how kind and giving they are. The debt that is owed to them is emotional servitude, and loyalty to them. They play the victim by smearing others to create a common enemy mentality, it’s “us against the world” mentality. Family is so important, it’s a scary world out there. But then they are also smearing their spouse or family member to others to appear that they are the abused. It’s crazy. My ex also did that, and I have been seeing it in so many couples now. What I notice is how it first appears that they are a united, cute and doting couple. Then I notice that one of them is hesitant and very focused on the other, while the other appears frustrated. That’s the covert. “look at me, I’m all about the family, I will even put up with someone who is so frustrating”. That’s the vibe I get when I saw the home videos of Chris and Shan’ann Watts. Then, of course, there’s the sophisticated heroes, the politicians and billionaire philanthropists. What’s scary is that, even though I believe that I can spot a covert narcissist pretty easily, it is still so easy to get sucked into their manipulation, especially when I’ve been conditioned to do so for so many years.
Have definitely encountered the victim covert narcissist, and am glad to have the hero type clarified! It makes so much sense, and I've gone from being bewildered to understanding this unfortunate level of human psychological unhealthiness, so that's progress! Thank you for always providing so much clarity, and I'm so glad to see that you're on BetterHelp, what a fantastic way to help others!
I'm so glad for the ability to "pause" the video as I need to take a break emotionally after you've presented a specific area or edge the/my narcissist uses as their power over the/my victim per se. I cringe and get that whole pit in the stomach feeling and can't hear a word you're saying anymore because my mind is doing this electric buzz thing due to anxiety. I told myself I wasn't going to fall prey again. I have reviewed and reviewed your videos so that I'd be able to stand up mentally to the emotional games. Ha. Down. I. Fell. Hard. Twisted and knarled. Damn it she's good. OK, unpause, learn more. Try some. Don't ever give up!
Honey, I was doubled wammed....raised by the first (my mother) and married to the second. Now that you have taught me how to put it in words, I can probably teach a class. Thanks and blessings.
These videos on narcissistic personality has happened me so much on my shelf searching my pattern of my life. Iv taking myself out of there life. And it seems like you disarming them when you take your self out of the situation.
The most troubling part of this all, to me, is, when we invest ourselves in any relationship... Like, *really* commit to be *all_in,* we find that everyones got an unhealthy dose of Narc in'em. Edit: Good stuff Meredith; you're Teaching us all about ourselves... Reminds me *(very much)* of Dr. Jordan Peterson's Core Message. Respect.
@Leslie I'm so stoked to see you've benefited from his Gift(s) to us all. He's definitely been a blessing not in disguise for me. Have you seen his latest Family update? Posted yesterday: th-cam.com/video/DTwEFa5NW2k/w-d-xo.html
@@InnerIntegration J Peterson is a fascist racist misogynist red pill advocate who promotes return to the Middle Ages & VICTIM BLAMING ..! And you call yourself awoken & a narcissism expert?!??.. Idk who payed you to endorse him here & in your podcasts but it's time for me to unsubscribe.. Guess people who criticized you in previous posts were right after all.. Your corrupted too, spreading the mentality that we are all narcissists.. You should declare your a Peterson fan openly in your next video so that people know who their dealing with.!!.. SHaMe .. 👎👎👎👎👎
Your discription is my mother to a T, i have DID, IBS, fibromyalgia, etc, due to all her headfeckery. I have purchased one of your courses to help myselves heal from all the past traumas so i can start to live a happier life instead of merely existing in turmoil n anguish. Just want to thank you as you have opened my eyes n helped myselves gain a better insight to WTF is going on n why i have struggled in the past wi my mental n physical state. 🥰
Thank you so much for shedding light on these different manifestations of covert narcissism. It's always bothered me when I hear covert narcissists decribed as the "shy" narcissist. Not because I don't believe they exist....Only because the covert narcissist I have lifelong experience with does NOT fit this description...which really confuses the issue and makes it that much more difficult for people to "see" the signs. My experience has been with a covert narc of the second type you describe... I have actually seen her go as far as to manipulate perceptions of others...negatively towards another....seemingly only for the purpose of then "playing the compassionate one" and "saving" that "underdog"....and thereby making it just about impossible for anyone to believe she was behind it all. It's about total control.
Oh my gosh!! My husband has been pulling this one on me! I have been loyal to the point of near death and now he goes around saying he needs to be with someone who is loyal
I love this. Turn it into a Facebook meme post so I can click like on it without directly calling my narc friend and family members out to their faces to rage at me and make my life harder 😂
This sounds like Malkin's concept of communal narcissism, which describes people who cherish their status and specialness as givers or humanitarians. I believe that the damage comes when they believe that their humanitarian actions gives them entitlement to damage others for the sake of the greater good.
Great insight! Like the elite pushers of population reduction who disguise it as humanitarian work and aid. Or like USAID, the regime change arm of the US government who offers “aid” to countries that comes in the form of covert coups d’etat.
@@Diana5513 I’m becoming closer to the end. IF everything goes ok it should all be done at the end of June. He shared he’s going to move out, that was 6 weeks ago....he’s still here. Really stressful however I see an end. Thank you for checking in!
Meredith I am one to rarely comment on these types of forums. But I can honestly say that you and your videos have been a revelation for me. They have provided me with some belief in myself when there was a lot of self doubt about my perceptions and reality. Thank you so much for honestly making a difference to my life. Its very hard to deal with when something is/was so addictive that you really want to believe that it is not what it actually is and does.
I have met the "victim" type who used my empathy to extract personal information to later use against me. At times, he was also the "philanthropist." Stated that he volunteered after work and helped children (if one is willing to believe him), yet, would hardly spend time with his own children.
Victim/Hero ExNarc~ One occasion he organized my surprise birthday. HERO He forgot to send evite to my family and friends, but his family and friends got the evite. I was crushed. My reaction turned him into a VICTIM bc he only concentrated on “how dare you feel bad when I’m doing all this celebration for your. It was just a mistake but you can never appreciate my efforts”. I ended up apologizing for being so ungrateful. 😥
I’m not sure which category the covert narcissist that I dealt with would be in, but probably “victim”. She seemed nice to everyone, including me, but then I started to figure out that she was secretly sabotaging all my relationships due to her jealousy and envy of me and my relationships. I was her one target. This made her lies much more believable, because no one else had any issues with her. I was portrayed as one to watch out for, “but don’t let him know, as he has anger issues, (lie).” Finally, her deception got to the “wrong” ears, and I found out what she had been doing for many years. I had been wondering what was wrong with me. Now I see it wasn’t me. Thank you for your help. Great video!!
Never was a good mood not turned into sometimes subtle & sometimes rage 'emotional terrorism'. How dare you bring contentment to someone needing an adrenaline rush off you. Shock and awe works well when your not understanding what is going on.
OMG.. ex narc came home from work and while I was washing dishes, my back towards him, i heard in a kind of celebratory tone, they are not putting NARCISSISM in the DSM anymore. And me, i looked over my shoulder while rinsing the dishes off and before bending away to put in the dishwasher, I said ok, as I briefly looked at him. I had no idea what Narcissism was. He caught me busy and not paying attention. THAT WAS HIS WAY OF SAYING IN HIS HEAD, "WELL SHE KNOWS NOW BC I JUST TOLD HER." Meredith, that was his justifying that i know now, it must be ok now that he's a narc, and he now can continue with his abuse. She was to busy cleaning the house to notice 😢🤮🤢 Ever so sneaky and twisting reality. Twisting the so called communication. I think work told him to go home and be honest with your wife. So he did but in a sick way. Ex narc ""had to"" move into a different field, a psychiatrist. Was in medical field. So, he must have been celebrating one of the covert narcs that uou mention here.
I have been studying C.N.'s now for over a year and living with one for 35+ years. With the help and guidance of a GREAT therapist , and an online program dedicated almost exclusively to Cn's. I have never seen or heard anyone else describe the "Hero" C.N. so well. Unfortunately, my STBX C.N. hits every damn single box. Almost scary how accurate you are. No, it is scary, not almost. OUCH!
Wow, Meredith! This is a really concise analysis, to the point that I could envision different people from my past. It made me feel kind of ill, but it's also satisfying to know "how" they were able to cast their illusions. ❤
I love this video! Thank you for your insights. I think the sophisticated narc reminds me of covert narcs in a church leadership setting always acting like they are so holy, but behind closed doors are a nightmare.
Would you be able to provide insight into the similarities and differences of Covert Narcissists and Codependents? To me they are extremely similar and I'm unsure of why this isn't talked about based on how dangerous Covert Narcissists can be. I love your work. Thank you truly for all that you do 💌
Lindy Irwin I was thinking the same thing. I am affected very poorly by Codependents. There is no doubt a similar vein between Coverts & Codependents. They both cause oppression & siphon energy & well being. Personally, both types make me feel claustrophobic when I am around them. They both want something from people in a way that is very vampiric in nature. Codependents just seem very draining in a way that you can always expect, while coverts are more tricky & stealth in how they drain people out & use them. I think coverts actually really find it delicious to get away with what they get away with, while Codependents are truly more needy and try to stick to you, more because they feel they must have you in their life for their personal survival, versus Coverts who use people, like you are their gasoline/energy supply.
Yaaaasssss!!! I would be interested in this specific distinction as well. I have experienced both sides of the coin and they are both unhealthy behaviours. I think co- Dependency is a conditioned response that can be changed with self awareness and effort whereas NPD requires self awareness too but they lack the self discipline, the desire to change, the willingness to change requires effort which is not their thing. NPD would rather manipulate others for gain than do it themselves, imho. NPD want others to do the work and they will take the credit
I believe codependents have an ‘anxious attachment style’. From my own personal experience this can develop from cognitive dissonance created by the narcissist. I’ve learned my lessons the hard way aka karma. I’m much happier being a single independent woman who’s learned self love. Experiencing duality, polarity provides the opportunity for soul growth and expansion of consciousness. Shit happens, orchestrated by the universe for our highest good.
Very valuable information! It's enlightening to understand the variations. It's helpful to be able to distinguish the behaviors, so that we know what red flags to look for. I've learned a lot of valuable healing information from you, Meredith. I've also learned, for myself, that it's not about finding the correct label to apply to someone in order to know which kind of narcissist they are. That really helps along the way for healing, validation, and understanding, but more importantly, it's about learning their behavior patterns, their game, so that we know to stay away from them. Thanks for breaking it down so well.
Thank you Meredith, your videos are very clear, concise and cut through the 'reality' the narcissist tries to build around you. My father is the victim narcissist and for years I played the Golden Child role (while my younger brothers played the Scapegoat) until it finally got too much. I wrote him a long letter detailing everything he'd done but he dismissed it as a 'eloquent tantrum', after which I went no contact. Once you realise he's never going to change and never take responsibility then the only sane thing is to cut yourself off, also for the sake of my wife and daughter. Keep up the good work, Meredith!
GEEZUS!!! just reading through the comments I realize they are everywhere.. Just in my life I have had so many... my mom, my ex, my neighbor, my 'best' friend. I see others experince so many as well... I wonder what the stats really are.
Excellent video. I'm currently dealing with a covert narcissist who is the biggest victim on the planet. I knew something was wrong with him but I couldn't work out what it was because he always played the 'empath' card and twisted reality so much I became physically ill with the stress. These people are SO dangerous. They can kill without ever laying a hand on their victims. It's high time they were exposed for the threat that they are. People need to know how they operate so they can protect themselves and get away.
Career victims indeed. They target who they want to be. So you need to be wary of your "friends" that look up to you. That was the biggest red flag for me when figuring out how to discover a covert narc.
Spot on. 17 years with a covert and her 'victim' stories now continues with the addition of her apparent 'sufferings' with me. the stories I have already heard now is close to me filing defamation charge against her.
Hey Missis! Thank you! You are so spot on! Thanks many times! "Emotional terrorists" (I liked that one) Yes I have experienced both this two covert types in workplaces, and the sophisticated one: Scary scary scary.. (You dont believe it before you have been targeted...and they are often "the best friend with the boss" too)
@@jackpetersen7545 he he, Thank you! I have learned my lesson, thats for sure. I live by my self here in little Norway ( you know, the little state of us up in the northern part of the world . 🤔)
My ex covert narc literally describe himself as an empath on his LinkedIn page...he has 0% empathy capacity, has NO real friends, lies about everything and I'm during war in my country and he told me he doesn't care about war. I was in a video call with him (he lives in a different country) during a bomb attack on my house and I could've die, it was during the devaluation/almost discard faze, and he looked at me with the deadest eyes as if he couldn't care less if I live or die. I blocked him and went no contact after 2 months of hell.
I was in a ten year relationship with someone who is exactly like the person you described in the 2d part of the video. The clarity your content provides to me is very much appreciated.
Pigeonlvbrd I believe you. I’ve been there too. My greatest healing has been living alone. It feels so good to be alone, after a lifetime of working so hard to please my former husband. It is a relief to be alone and safe. My home is now quiet, calm, peaceful, clean and safe. What more could we want? A place to let our hair down, relax and refresh. Sadly, I was relieved when my mother died, that was 13 years ago. My tears weren’t because she died, but because of what could’ve been and never was. Very sad. Your self care is what’s important and necessary now.
I believe you! I believe you! I know how much it hurts when no one believes the very real pain you are stuck left to challenge alone... and sometimes many times over. A very lonely place to be. And painful. Put your hand on your heart and say I believe me. I know this is real. Hugs!
Pigeonlvbrd ....my mom is the heroic/helping type of narc who called me difficult all my life because I wanted to be self sufficient like any other adult. She coddled my siblings now they are stunted and dependent adults. I'm in a healthy relationship with a long and gainful career in health care. 🤔Narc mom complains about their dependence on her but feels so glorified when she has to bail them out financially. Healthy boundaries will save you...and truth will come out one way or another.
It sucks because you look like the crazy person..it’s so unfair and BS! I’m so sick of years of this insanity..it’s driven me insane..once I get away completely from my family, I can’t wait to see if I just begin to be happy and more like me again
I like this new covert narc category because it fits my mom best. She always bought gifts and was lavish with them, but all her gifts were not to make me happy because she never really looked for my satisfaction, and then I felt I had to keep the relationship going because "her feelings would be hurt" (she always reserved her "right" to be a victim). No straight-up exchange ever happened between me and my mom, one that would actually make me feel good about myself and the relationship at the same time. I could not hold on to my self as an individual when I was with her. What a loss that I was not able to confront her about all this stuff because, although I always felt bad about our relationship, I could not understand the dynamic going on underneath. How do you confront when you are so confused about what is actually going on? Thank you Meredith for the information that helps me protect and care for my self which I am just starting to get back.
I can relate, It's an endless power struggle that I choose to disengage from. I will always be punished by her regardless so I keep my distance and what's left of my sanity intact
I was wondering the same thing. I already know this man has demons, I’m in a relationship with. I dream of it regularly. I have asked him to get exercised. I wonder if it could ever help him but I don’t have the patience to stick around. It’s only been a month we have seen each other.
@@CONNECT-icutHealingheArts pray for him. He needs to also believe in the LORD to be exorcised, he has to actually want to get rid of those demons. I recommend watching David Lynn's exorcism videos to get an idea of what REAL exorcisms are like (not a person tied up lol), some people get exorcised as they are being baptized as well.
right , I feel who’s to say he won’t choose the demons again. He has made enough excuses where I gave up on him. It was when I deeply prayed for him that his demons attacked me the first time in my sleep. They did not like the lord coming in. I see how these demons help them to ruin someone’s life to get them dependent on them. So it’s not only the person working their ways but the demons that are working it for them when they aren’t even around. Very sad. I’ve been just praying for myself now that I am clear of any of that energy so not to bring it to any of my other relationships.
@@CONNECT-icutHealingheArts Yes, if the person allows it (whether consciously or subconsciously), those demons will embed themselves deeply into the person. It's difficult to break through to that person so it's up to them if they want to change. I've been through similar situations before, for one I could not see them anymore but for others I prayed for them daily. Out of maybe 8 people, only one seeked God. If you truly feel you cannot deal with that person anymore, that is understandable, let God do the rest if there is work to be done. Also I've found that staying in/reading the word is incredibly helpful against demonic attack. If I hadn't read the Bible in a few days (whether because of schoolwork, etc.), demons try to tempt me and break me down in my dreams and in real life intensely. This spiritual battle is no joke. God Bless
My ex mother publicly uses both covert types (victim, hero), depending on the circumstances. Behind closed doors she became a full blown overt, or played the covert roles too, according to her mood.
3:20 "Emotional Terrorist"...best description I've heard yet. When you actually ARE an Empath AND a Codependent, you are the perfect prey for them. I'm so heartbroken from this that it's made me emotionally, mentally, and physically SICK. I'm seriously wondering if I'll make it. It makes me SOOOO SICK that I love this person as much as I do AND HATE THEM EQUALLY! It's not something anyone should have to go through.
The covert narcissist at my last work place was the hero when he wanted to impress people he didn't know, e. g. potential customers, visitors, or colleagues of other departments. He used either internal terms or words from datasheets the other person definitely couldn't know. When it came to impress someone with big or small numbers he multiplied everything by a variable "exaggeration factor". Within the team he sometimes acted clumsily or made intentional mistakes. This way he got help from other team members or utilized them as flying monkeys. BTW, the thumbnail image of this video fits well as it shows a nice narcissist's smirk, often mistaken for a smile.
Wow, that is the best description I have ever heard of the complicated person in my life. The other narcissist descriptions usually lean on outright attempts at control. That never fully fit with what I was experiencing.bbbut the victim description and the desire for your sympathy and for your resources is spot on.
The interesting part of your video was when you mentioned the comorbid part of narcissim with Boarderline traits. I would guess that most narcissits are not one thing or another. There is overlap with other personality disorders making them difficult to pin down. It’s complex, but there are common threads, such as lack of empathy, and a need to be hurtful. The covert types have simply learned to hide the overt parts of their disorder. They wear camouflage over their true personality. Clinically speaking, my guess is there really is no diffrence between, “covert,” narcissist and malignant narcissist. The covert, has simply learned to cover it up.
I agree that there are different types of covert narcs . My experience has been with my sister, observing her from both the internal family dynamic and the external all caring, giving etc. In her family she tres to control and manipulate at every turn and always has since childhood. Thanks for helping me define it , the crazy head is much calmer now!
Thank you for this video :-). What's weird is I see both types in my elderly narcissistic mother. I don't know if that's because she's perfected her skills but she's actually not all victim not all Hero. Very strange to see both characteristics in her but I do. Again thank you for your work.
I have met the victim type and the description in this video is incredibly accurate. I always felt like I was the only one who saw her for what she was until I learned a few others see it too, but they are silenced by fear. How can anyone publicly criticize her when she has lost so much? She’s a survivor, isn’t she? No. She’s a predator. It’s so sad that these people get away with their horrible actions. I’m so thankful for videos like this that are helping to spread the word and unmask these horrible, distorted people. Thanks so much, Meredith!
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Inner Integration thank you so much for your videos and guidance. It has been invaluable to me. This is one of the darkest chapters in my life as I am trying to fully break free of my cover narcissist ex wife. Without your videos and the community on TH-cam I would be completely in the dark.
Yes I have encountered them, every woman I was ever romantically involved with, was such and unfortunately I have found aspects of self in some of these descriptions. Evidently, NPD and co-dependant families culture empaths for life long supply. We can find these elements in literature: Dracula by Bram Stoker, The hunchback of Notre Dame by Victor Hugo, Frankenstein by Mary Shelley, Magick in theory and practice by Aleister Crowley. Please like this helpful video
Inner Integration God bless you miss, there are plenty of those hero types on tv, thank you for your diligence always.
@@spasticclown I'm 4 months discarded from my ex wife as well, we have 2 little ones and when it all happened, I was so confused until I learned about covert narcissism and things started to make sense. This has been the most painful experience of my life but it's getting better little by little.
David Radford I can totally relate she showed me my Mom was a covert for 52 years of my life I never knew there was a name for her Then my husband comes Overt while I’m researching my Mom he came out of the woodworks Now I’m on Utube and own a large collection of books!! If she comes out with the Covert I’ll definitely buy that one I need more information on their behaviors and do you just leave and tell them Or do you just get out behind thee backs?? His ex left with his Son and everything behind his back after 28 years I can now see why Being a Empath I gave him everything I’m now disabled with a nerve disease RSD/CRPS he sure don’t help my pain levels that’s for sure with his emotional 😭 moods he pushes in this house when and where he wants them... It’s rough I pray for you and for your wife for she’s with the devil and need prayers too!! That’s all we can offer them is a Prayer from God Pray they wake up before it’s too late..
Cognitive dissonance is the most horrible part of the experience. At some point the brain figure out the the truth, but all the memories of her/him come as of a decent-victim. Often leading to long term feeling of guilt and doubting oneself! Is exhausting!
Ez pontosan igy van! Csak abban reménykedem, hogy a kognitiv disszonanciaból van kiút...még azzal küzdök🙏
I ran across 2 hero narcs last year. My bells and whistles went off when they both gave me the death stare when I declined one of their help offers. Theyre know-it-alls and guilt trippers, too.
@@chamomiletea5424 Yes! My mom too! The worst thing is that all the verses she uses to condemn or hammer you with are the very ones she needs to apply to herself. Sadly, she successfully drove most of her kids away from God even though she herself is the very devil. It's so messed up.
@@chamomiletea5424 Wow! My mom EXACTLY. Thank you for sharing.
God, he used to give me what I will call the death stare too. They peirce or like eat you with their eyes if they are not happy about something. Is that a narc thing?
@@leahc8347 I know the covert narc death stare well. Also, they sometimes follow your every move like you are their prey. I refer to it as "shark eyes." My Mom could practically burn a hole through me with that intense stare.
@@cheatednomore6430 Absolutely 👌.
There is another type of stare (Im guessing it is or similar to "shark eyes") where they kinda lower their brow and stare or while smoking deeply, looking and judging for for a short or prolong periods like energetically summing you up and down it feels, in a deep contemplation, and you just wonder what are they thinking and going in their head! But thats my experience from a 'hero' covert type, but the plain outgoing manipulative aggressive type have the death stare more quite obviously but not so self soul queezying- if you get me... yeah, been around and grown up between to many, (excuse my languge) sh*theads, Ive basically sworn off all people connection at the moment, feeling quite lonely and feeling the pain, but the last covert ended up being metephorically, an utter terrorist to my soul, Im healing and waiting till Im stronger to try to connect and trust again , hopefully now more aware who I can trust, but at the moment going through a painful detox. I hope I find decent people soon and know how, and not gravitate to the familliar again. Many blessings, and healing vibes to u too. I know how crushing it can be if its a parent who is emotionally disfunctional and grow up thinking its you. Much hugs.
My mother is a covert narcissist and she loves playing the victim but she is also altruistic and pretends to deeply care about people. Of course, every time she helps she expects something in return, usually a lot more than she gave.
Francisco Ramirez España Garcia yes, both types can co-exists in the same person! She pretends to be a heroin for her family but a victim in front of people.
Thanks for sharing Francisco. My mom is a covert narc. I recoginzed her when she refused to apologize to her doctor. That was the tip of the icebearg for me. She is so generous n learned lady to the world. As a writer I can see now that she has killed my dad. My story: - Holy Cow! My Mom Is Trump! medium.com/@mamtanarang/holy-cow-my-mom-is-trump-bde2aaa9344f
Zaeinab Afsari most of the time she pretends to be a victim mostly to family and close friends and a heroin to strangers. Yet she plays either role as it suits her.
Mamta N I Can totally understand that. My mother is killing my dad and my narcissistic ex wife was trying to kill me; she almost succeeded....
Mamta N I read your article you linked as well as your, “An Ode To My Narcissistic Mom”. It resonated with me. You are very brave. I hope one day I can see it through your eyes. I still have a lot of anger and grief to process. Thank you for sharing. 💕
I was married to the hero covert for 37 yrs. you nailed it. He’s a “minister”. He used the victim card when his back was against the wall. I’ve been away from him almost 2 yrs now. I’m steadily getting healthy emotionally, physically and spiritually at the age of 65...
Thank you Meredith. You have been a huge part of my healing journey.
Leslie we have 4 adult children and the response and support for me has been 100% except for our youngest daughter who is like her father. She now refers to me by my first name. It’s heartbreaking but not surprising.
Leslie thank you. I hope all is well with you.
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Tracey, your best years are ahead of you. Despite your experience with a man of the church, I would love for you to listen to Bishop T D Jakes and RC Blake, they help me out so much. Keep the faith. Love
Regina Polo thank you for your kind words. I do follow R C Blakes and absolutely love this man. Listening to him helped me open up to reading my Bible again.
This is defenitly my sister. Playing games until i get angry and then she plays the victim.
Alie De Vries The sick games they play! 😫
Alie De Vries My mom exactly!
Mine would respond with "no one can make you feel anything" if she would push my buttons to get me mad.
Jess Mine would say that too, or “Cheer up,” after pushing my buttons. It’s so arrogant and condescending.
@@breakthroughmoment1647 Yes that sounds familiar too or you're so sensitive. It was only recently when I realized Ive never done and said these things to anyone, I think they all learn from the same book!
Covert Narcissist are worser than overt narcissist especially since they are more sneaky than the overt type . Covert Narcissist are Wolves in sheep's clothing . You really have to watch your back dealing with these type of people .Yes they are both hero and victims . They always brag about how good and caring they are . Sounds like my narc ex and my father he's always playing dumb he's very douchey .
worser? Go back to school.
Just watch. Always lonely. Nothing behind the eyes.
Wolf in sheeps clothing 100% soul hunters!
Thank you x 1000. I've also seen them alternate between victim and hero.
Girl, you killed it. I just shared this to one of my own fb abuse pages. Watching over again and again.
My parents played this “swaparoo” game to a T. They were, surprise, both “victims” of each other! And both “heroes”! Guess what! They are BOTH wounded/vulnerable/covert narcissists!! I’m alllll done being played by those two master manipulators. They really work off of others’ sympathy but I saw them, called them on it and they know there’s no supply left with me so they moved on. It helps that I put up my boundaries and don’t get pulled in by occasional attempts at hoovering.
I was just going to ask if that was possible. I know someone that fits the description of a Victim CN when with me but then fits the description of the Hero CN when with family. Kinda like a switch in personalities...
@@naturefleur2062 I have these parents
I think they can definitely play both roles or switch when convenient for them. I know someone who will go above and beyond to help you. He claims he can see the potential in people (mostly young women, or young college athletes) and he can help bring out the best in them. When they do actually grow from his help he then tries to get in good on all their newly acquired resources by playing the victim and making ppl feel obligated to be there for him since he helped them all this time. If he didn’t think you had any potential to offer him something in the near or far future he wouldn’t give a rats ass about helping you.
My dad was the philanthropic sophisticated narcissist. Everyone loved him. And of course, everyone hated me for being such an awful child. How dare I grey rock my own father who did so much for others. I was an only child, and he'd find children in the neighborhood to use as his golden child projects. I laugh when I look back, tired of crying.
I ended up with 2 vulnerable narcissists who sucked the life out of me. The first one I'm still unsure, maybe he was borderline. But the second, he was *no doubt* a narcissist and he's the lesson that opened my eyes to what personality disorders are. I gave this man everything, love, support, money, etc. He sucked 3 years of my life dry, til I had nothing left. When the money tight, he started explosive fights over mundane life things. When he left, I was left confused by the entire relationship. He had no problem moving on like the years spent together meant nothing. Like a child who discards a toy.
I want to keep thanking you Meredith for all that you do and the information you put out there helps *save lives* . Yes.
I’m sorry to hear that. May you achieve massive success and self-love.
@@TK-pv4uq thank you very much. I'm in a much better place right now, married a loving emotionally mature person. Which is a further eye opener to what normal is. I now realize everyone in my past, from family, friends to relationships was plagued with abnormal behavior. I watch these videos because I still have residual ptsd, but I love participating in discussions and providing examples to help others in creating more awareness regarding abusers.
Wishing you the best as well if you're a survivor.
@@anneneem meditate!!!
Anonymous the narc I'm dealing with is a covert one .. most of the times he play victim but he is both depends on the situation.. can you please tell me if these victim types gives us the suicidal threats do they have tendencies to commit suicide? Whenever I tried to leave him he used to give me these threats .. then I left and told him suicidal threats are the worst thing you can do to a girl he said he didn't gave any . He even mentioned that oh I might have said this to you once or twice but not more than that .. then I showed him his threats he be like oh that was the inner child in me who was like that I got scared that you'll leave .. then he mentioned that he has harmed himself in the past because of me ! Though it's been two months now I left him completely no contact but I'm still scared .. can you please guide if possible 🙏🏻
@@niti470 you're unfortunately dealing with someone who has bpd with possibly comorbid narcissism. You know how in airplanes they always tell people to wear the safety oxygen mask first before putting it on their children - you'll have to apply this to yourself in relationships. Never feel responsible for someone else's sanity, pain and mental being. You did amazing going no contact and I suggest you keep doing that. If you started off sane, dealing with a cluster-b personality can be the tipping point of insanity. If you come from broken place (like many of us I'm assuming), then it will only make things worse for you. If this person threatens suicide again, call a hotline anonymously if you can and report their potential suicide. And only if you're plagued with guilt. And only the one time. Other than that they are *NOT* your problem. They're playing emotional games with you. GET OUT.
I swear there needs to be another *Get Out* movie, except this time about narcissim instead of racism.
My husband of 32 years, is sicker then I thought, he's a definite combo of both. By the grace of GOD I survived his abuse. I learned so much thank you for your videos.
Three years ago last month I took my abuser and myself to the homeless shelter. It was part of my exit plan cuz I couldn't go anywhere or do anything without him being right there. At the shelter they separated men from women and I really needed that to begin creating distance. His behaviors worsened and others witnessed us in my vehicle and him verbally coming unhinged on me. Well, I left him there like leaving a dog at the pound. This month is my three year no contact.
I think it was my second night at the shelter, I was laying in bed watching videos and that was my introduction to you. Your video on when to bury the hope was my wake up call. Not the emotional or financial extortion or my reputation being lended from then ruined, no. It took a video. Your video was so spot on and perfect and broke through whatever trance I seemed to be in. I seriously cannot thank you enough for all that you do!!!
By any chance do you have any videos, besides the narcissistic fleas video, that goes into the learned behaviors we pick up and how to knock it off? I know I'm not a narcissist cuz I wouldn't have lasted nine years with one if I was but I sometimes find myself behaving badly, then I sometimes physically glitch from the awareness then do my best to knock it off. Any links you could share on this would be much appreciated.
Thank you so much. Hugs from Montana.
Gypsy Feet...it will get better. For your psudoname sake, move on, to totally different place. In my case, I became much more financially successful (relative), and independent, when I moved away from all that triggered me, and out of reach of all residue of the damage done. I let my faith guide me and it did me justice. Much love
I’ve been watching so many videos in this genre that I can’t help but face my own narcissistic traits and defects. Sometimes it’s, “oh, I used to do that,” or “I feel convicted so Jesus please help me walk less like that and closer to you and your ways,” to “I’m actually doing this behavior (not answering the narc I still live with in order to not drag into fight) for the right reason and not a narcissistic reason.” Just beware of taking trip in denial river.
Gypsy feet it’s because you have been with him for a long time , you begin to mimic certain behaviours and you subconsciously think it’s okay. If you had stayed longer, you’ll notice that you would have gradually started behaving like a narcissist.
There it is folks, your typical career politician.
My Mother, an ordained minister, is the hero type and when challenged can switch to the vulnerable type in a flip of a switch. That transformation takes about 2.2 seconds and is actually quite impressive to see. Her concern and worry for me was ONLY to get information and in turn sucked the life and energy right out of me. But those days are over, life is good. Absolutely spot on Meredith! Spot fucking on!!!
Why do they get information from a person?
@@michellel75 They can use info for various reasons. To find out where you are vulnerable in order to exploit. What can they get from you,: emotionally, for instance sympathy or make you a flying monkey; financially, manipulating that sympathy for favors or loans, cash, car maybe, or place to stay, job opportunities, maybe even connections. Or they can use info in a more malignant way, like a smear campaign or even blackmail. I've had both done to me by different types of covert narcissists.
My ex wife is a textbook “victim” covert narcissist. It feels so weird sometimes because people very rarely see the “Mr. Hyde” side of her personality. She works so hard to create this persona of a “nice, put together” person but now that I’m aware of who she really is and now that I’ve been at the wrong end of her gaslighting, blame shifting, the circular arguments and rages her public image comes across as phony to me. Even her voice sounds different when she’s around others. It’s heartbreaking sometimes to realize that I never really knew the woman whom I was married to for 14 years and the mother of my children.
TA D it’s like you’re my twin. The EXACT same thing happened to me (except for the cheating...I think). Out stories are almost identical. After she kept devaluing me and chose her friends and pet projects over me and my children’s well being, after she nearly drained us financially over and over again, I got fed up and moved into the spare bedroom for a few days. Especially when she became physically violent. When she wouldn’t talk to me for a week I finally called her out and that night she called the cops. I wasn’t arrested but only after I had to call 911 to explain my side of things. Then the next day I tried to talk to her again, she projected ALL of her abusive behavior on me and said she wanted a divorce. I agreed but begged her to reconsider first. Then I suffered a breakdown and had to go to the hospital. While I was there she ordered a residential non return, which I obeyed, then she filed an order of protection, cut me off of our joint bank account, got a high priced lawyer, prevented me from seeing my kids for three months, ordered me out of our home under the police escort, her parents were outside the whole time videoing me and making the whole humiliating event even more horrible, then as I’m about to go they serve me with her divorce paper, this happened on FATHER’S DAY. Do not only am I having one of the worst days of my life but her flying monkeys decided to twist the knife and make it even more horrible. Then when I finally get visitation, after she voluntarily drops the protection order, her parents take turns yelling at me in public in front of my kids. She turned my sister against me, has smeared me to everyone, lying her butt off in the process. And the kicker is her gaslighting still continues as she just acts like “nothing happened.” Now keep in mind, I was a loyal, loving, patient husband who tried everything to work it out with her, from going to therapy, marriage counseling, making her and my children the priority in my life above everything. I was never a heavy drinker, drug user and I never cheated, I have been an excellent involved and loving father, I cooked, I cleaned, I work a full time job, I put up with her narc mother and broken codependent father. Now she also attends church and is playing the victim. claiming how I was so terrible and what an emotional abuser I was, even though if everyone knew her actual track record and witnessed her abuse they would be shocked. And she is so good at hiding who she truly is that there is no point in trying to let people know. She has twisted everything so badly that even if I were to try to clue people in that they’d never believe me. It’s so good to know that there are people that have shared experiences and videos like this and ones by Dr. Les Carter, Kim Sied, Little Shaman, Richie Grannon, et. al. It’s like I’ve been living in The Land of Crazy so long that being in reality seems so foreign at times. I still am hyper vigilant sometimes and do my best to stay no contact and avoid her.
This and the additional comments here are so identical to my experiences- I could have written them myself. I'll only add this- stay off meds offered by doctors who have good intentions but will make things worse. Find new hobbies. Hit the gym. Never look back. Love your kids
You are not the only one. You must find ways to be happy, in spite of your deflating situation. I wish you peace.
The voice change. Yes! Thank you for pointing this out, so true. It’s like a softer, friendlier tone when in public.
That is heartbreaking. Happy you got out though.
I agree,
Keep your head as clear as possible as you need your wits to see clearly and make solid decisions based from clarity. I avoid alcohol too as clouds my judgement
My mother--the hero. This meant she could be just as hurtful as she felt justified because "How could you be angry at me with all I've done for you!" A therapist even concurred with that and, though I didn't know what I was dealing with at the time, I didn't want to see that therapist any longer. But when I told another woman, a mother around the same age as my own, what my mother said her immediate response was: "All that she did for you should have been done out of love, not so she could always be blameless."
Truly, the only word that comes to my mind is INSIDIOUS! Whether vulnerable/shy or hero, coverts are masters of manipulation and master magicians - they've had years to "perfect" their craft. Such an excellent topic of discussion. Thank you so much, Meredith, for bringing this forward and differentiating between the two. Without this detailed explanation, many would still be stuck in the head screw!
Insidious!
about 30 years back my wife walked into a school hood friend. they started to go around together again. one day the friend asked to borrow $4 from my wife, the day my wife was to get the money back came and went. days later when my wife asked for her money back she got the money, but then later that day the friend started to complain about the times when I was around. she wanted my wife all to her self to con. at that my wife dropped her from our lives.
How about MALEVOLENT?
The very best description of a covert narcissist I've heard to date!
Exactly. They all DO NOT fit this origional overt definition. I feel like many I've met are this second type.
Empower Empaths ...my husband is most definitely the victim type...always blames, always deflects always denies, always gaslights...he has few redeeming characteristics any more...About the only honest thing he can do is be self serving and hopefully keep the books...Although I plan to cover myself when the time comes to leave his sorry a#$...I can see he will have abandonment issues, but do I care?
@@canadianlady777 nope. His issues not yours 💪🙏❤❤❤
@@Oceans780 I say don't trust. Just WAIT. The snakes will ALWAYS show. Trust your gut and know the signs 🐍
This is a great video. I struggled for decades with trying to put my finger on what was wrong with my mother and why I disliked her so much. She is definitely a covert narcissist. Both types that were mentioned here. Mostly the hero type. I finally had to get out of her life. She had almost devastated me most of my life. I was the scapegoat. I went no contact 3 years ago after 5 decades of this insidious abuse. I'm unlearning and relearning me now and am breaking the cycle in my immediate family. Unfortunately, my adult daughters have been affected by this and have distanced themselves from me due to her smearing. I pray that by me finally standing up, my grandchildren will one day understand that abuse will not be tolerated. 💜
My ex-narc was definitely a combo of both. He started off as the hero type for sure, then gradually started playing the victim card (not in a needy way, but more to get HIS way through sympathy).
All of the above. Vulnerable mostly at home. With others, victim or hero...what ever is needed for the time.
3:20 Is spot on. The moment my Narc dad go out for couple days, the whole environment and ambience change at home.
When my 21yo son left home it was an instant relief. We did NOT raise him like that!!
I’ve been married to “Hero Covert” for nearly 40 years. I didn’t even know there was a covert N until a year ago. Listening to you and Dr. Les Carter on TH-cam. Dr. Carter made a list of covert traits that floored me. From your description we’re looking at a Hero. He has said on numerous occasions, “ I like to do favors for the neighbors so they owe me. I thought that was odd until I learned the truth. Also, he proudly suffers sexual addiction, and I haven’t had been allowed to enjoy intimacy during his gratification for decades. It’s all one sided, and if I object, I hear how selfish I am and he stomps out of the house. When the children were still young they’d ask, “ what’s wrong with Daddy?” Now I understand it was controlling manipulation techniques. And you hit the nail on the head. I have never been allowed my own feelings. If I ever stated something bothered or offended me, he explained that I was over reacting. But he was soooo nice. Folks commented on what a cute couple we were. I would just shake my head. I could go on for days.... but just know, with help from folks like you, changes are being made, and if I can survive the divorce, the sun is shining on the horizon.
I'm rootin for ya... your comment made me cry. I understand completely what you are enduring ... your story was mine 20 yrs ago. My prayers for your strength and freedom dear. You can do this!! BIG hugz
Hugs to you.
@@desire4liberation and Britany. It’s quiet here in my kitchen this morning and I’m viewing TH-cam comments and drinking coffee. I guess I feel like sharing this morning. The divorce and all the shuffling of stuff finally completed last Thanksgiving. My ( adult) daughter is not happy with me because I hurt her daddy and we’re not speaking , but my son was treated much like me so he gets it. Because I did my research well, the divorce was very favorable on my behalf. I feel vindicated.
Weirdly enough, I don’t miss him. I thought with all the trauma bonding, I’d have to fight the urge to want to make contact , but nope! Every morning I wake up relieved. Life is good, quiet but good. Hope you are well also.
@@vicbaker8367 How wonderful. Thank you for sharing. Makes MY heart happy today and Yes quiet is good for me as well. Time to heal Vic and regain the inner-peace you have been robbed of for so long. Learning my role in the relationship is how I was able to understand what happened and why. So happy you are free from the direct manipulations. Your daughter has her own issues with him and she may come around for your support at some point.
I am married to a covert narc. He is a blend of both victim and hero, depending on which benefits him the most at any particular moment. It's EXTREMELY deceptive, and EXTREMELY rare if anyone realizes what he is. We have been married for 28 years, and out of our 2 dozen or so long-time friends, only ONE person has actually inquired of me about him and suggested to me that he has a problem, and that I am the true victim.
I think sometimes people notice but don’t say anything. They may not want to cause any drama or make you uncomfortable. He also may be talking to others about how concerned he is about you or how you don’t appreciate him. The movie Gaslight is a good example of how they control other people’s perceptions of you and them. I think finding a friend separate of the relationship can help. It helped me get some clarity
T. William, I was married to a covert narc for 28 years. Left one and a half years ago and now feel sooo much better! Being 60 years now, I go out dancing and really enjoy life again. I was so drained of my positive energy and never laughed, this is all coming back and people say I have changed so much for the better and we love having fun. It was the best Decision ever to go for divorce!
@@reginapolo3357 Yes, the age thing does help much methinks...makes it easier (yet also harder in ways too as you have described) to do the no-contact necessaries and also have all the exp / wisdom to move on and heal...yet even the young can be very astute in these regards. THankfully.
Of course, YOU are painted as the difficult person, right?
@@Suzu52 well of coarse, if you want to keep your energy to yourself, and or be alone, of coarse were just evil...haha. They truly have no shame in these regards with their accusations.
ive had covert "victim mentality" partners like this in the past and they either had drink or drug problems (or both) . I think my mother was one of these too which is why I attracted them before awareness
Beata, same here. They both had substance abuse problems and had a hard time keeping jobs, but it was always someone else’s fault.
I've met the victim type. And it took me a long time to understand what he is. He never took responsibility for himself. The others are the "bad persons", responsible for everything that happend to him and he complained a lot about them.
Yup, this is right on. Thank you. My narc mom adopted 9 children to look good but then gave them a life of hell.
That is soooo sad and disturbing.
When I first watched the movie Mommy dearest my eyes were wide open. It gave me the silent validation that I wasn't imagining my childood, that my mother was to blame, that it wasn't me.
Yes, I’ve experienced both types intimately. And you are right, because they are so stealthy and I experienced their manipulative behaviors from young, it took me a very long and difficult time to figure them out. But it’s possible to do so! Use your intuition and instincts. Problem is the gaslighting and flying monkeys. However the cognitive dissonance will finally kick in, perhaps along with a dose of luck when you stumble upon a help resource like Meredith Miller!
Thé Victime-Covert type is my 82yr old mother and she still plays the game! She now uses her age or increased frailty to manipulate, sometimes dangling a possible inheritance. I just try to enforce my boundaries and stay cognizant of her machinations.
The Hero-Covert type is my paternal Aunt who acts like a Godmother to me and so tries to own me as well. But you reach a point where you cannot take the abuse and cognitive dissonance any more and just go No Contact. Admittedly it’s much easier because she is not my mother, and her increasing bad behavior is noted by other relatives who find it harder to act like a flying monkey if you stand your ground (now that I’m older and wiser!).
I’m 52 now and I only started freeing myself from a lifetime of pain, confusion, hurt and shame in my late 40s. I truly wish I know what I now know earlier. But it is never too late People! Peace that comes from freedom is so very sweet. Thank you Meredith for being the Brave & Compassionate Lightworker that helps illuminate our darkness and helps us break free 🙏🏼
It's never too late! I'm 74 now, and did not comprehend how my covert narc mom trained the four sibs to play out their roles as flying monkeys and scapegoaters, until I was in my late 50s. She died in 2014 at age 93, surrounded by the four sibs and most of her grandkids and great-grandkids. She's still considered a saint, for everyone but me, and that's okay. What matters is that I'm not confused anymore. THANK YOU MERDITH❤
@@mishmish2261
Letting yourself feel the pain of realizing it was all about her jealousy, hatefulness and insecurities, and that she set you up to serve her sick purposes, that it's all even more sinister than you thought, it takes a long, long time to work through the resentment and for me, rage. But it really helps to go No Contact! I'm okay with feeling whatever my inner child wants or needs to feel.
That is inspiring. I am roughly the same age as you and my parents are close to your mom’s age. They are the hero, but victim if you don’t appreciate them. I’ve played the good, appreciative daughter for long enough that we get along. Their self praise and concern for me is insidiously manipulative, however. I’m torn, they are too old to tell them how I really feel, but by not telling them I feel disingenuous. Always the double bind, damned if I do, damned if I don’t, ugh!
Goldie H, I don’t know your situation as well as you do, but from all the resources I’ve read, watched and heard, telling them serves no purpose. They will not agree that they have a problem and will either deny or blame you for any problems. This goes too deep into their core and they will not risk what they’ve built up their whole lives to crumble.
If you think telling them will help you heal through some form of acknowledgement or closure, you will need to do that without them. I think Meredith did a video on that.
Peace and good luck ❤️
Marcia Noren, I agree, the best remedy is No Contact and I’m deeply grateful that for the most part I’m able to do that. I can’t do it 100% but maybe 70%?
Feeling feelings and not stuffing them down is healing too. It is a process and sometimes I experience echoes of the old feelings of rejection, fear, anger and not being enough. Overall, I am waaaaay better than before. So keep moving forward Everyone!
YES! I completely agree with this overview. I have had experience with both kinds in the past year, and had to end my relationships with them, and it took me the longest time to figure out what was happening. The first was a meditation teacher who had this 'holy air' about him, and the second was a friend who had a series of unfortunate events. The turning point for me and the 'aha' moment of revelation was that I was feeling overwhelmed and like I wasn't getting to my own projects anymore, and I suddenly needed to take vacation days to regain my energy - which I hadn't planned. During that time, I told both of them I needed space, and both of them dropped their masks. The "guru" became more angry and frustrated and kept asking me to do more and more menial tasks, and then he'd ask me to explain and justify myself. The victim threatened suicide, among many other points of manipulative tactics. Both of them became very angry when they weren't getting the recognition they thought they deserved for their birthdays. Compare this to my good friends in life who said, "Oh, have a nice vacation!" and left me alone! So, I am learning a good test if you are unsure is to ask for time for yourself and don't respond to their emails, and just sit and watch what happens without reacting. I found both showed me their entire armory of tactics in the span of about two weeks. Thanks Meredith, for all of your education, because I wouldn't have been able to spotlight the indicators or clearly define the abuse if I hadn't watched your videos. The deal breaker that made me walk away was that I recognized my body was responding in fear and I was becoming more afraid of both of them. Your tools have helped incredibly in assisting my exits out of these traps! THANK YOU.
Yaaaassss! I can relate to the awareness that my life seemed to be in limbo, on hold while his life was running smoothly. My attention was on him and not me?
My health had plummetted , my self identity had diminished, my hobbies were set aside. These were my first wake up calls too. I was so drained, waiting for everything to work out. I was just spinning my wheels going nowhere while he did what he wanted. I started noticing phrases he used repeatedly, repeat patterns of behaviour, he wood take ownership of things I did or said which was weird, entitled without merit. He took all the credit while shifting all the blame, big wake up call too
That summarized my last relationship. My time was "their" time, and any resistance was met with guilt, shame or indebted. My responsibilities were not important, nor my needs. All about them but to them it was all about me. Then I was thinking I AM really like that...
I've seen two narcissists get together in order to bully a target; though, I've heard that narcissists don't like each other. Also, they'll date each other, but frequently cheat and make excuses about their actions. I think the victim-narc will seek out hero-narcs, or even overt-narcs in order to appear to be the better person, or co-dependent in situations. All of them are highly manipulative and dangerous.
This rings true. In my case a covert narc ex reached out regarding a guy she was seeing who she worried was a love bombing narc. She was dead right. But it was interesting that as the passionate hero I started to become the passionate overt narc, sent on a rollercoaster due to her indifference. I ended it today as I heard myself rollercoastering and using overt manipulations. It's important to keep tabs on our own levels and to know what feeling whole means to us.
This is literally my parents..I wonder why my mother won't leave my father...then I found out they are both covert narcicist a hero type and a victim type playing like a prince hero and a dumbsel in distress... I am so afraid that we siblings might exhibit same attitude..I am seeing hero attitude on my younger brother and a victim attitude on my younger sister..I am so bothered..like I am seeing my siblings and my parents on other people too..at first my suitor is playing like a hero saving me but now I discover him to be so pityful but wouldn't admit it..and later on when he became my boyfriend I found myself saving him..I am afraid I might also manifesting a hero mentality..
Here's a good example of covert narcissism. I spent my entire youth listening to my mother complain about her hay fever - even though she smoked heavily (she never cared in the least how her smoking effected us kids, especially when trapped in the car in the winter when she wouldn't even let us open the window). I can remember as an adult talking to my older sister rather causally at a party about our own sensitivities and allergies when my mother came in the room and broke up the conversation and outright demanded we not talk about our issues. I remember thinking, hey no one is talking to you here. I think that was the first time I really noticed that she had clearly overstepped a boundary and that something was really off about my mother.
Went through something similar every morning being driven to school.
I know a person who has both the victim and hero face. Thank you for your very imformative videos. :)
This is a very informative and helpful video, Meredith!! I have recently realized that a very "helpful friend" of mine is most definitely a hero CN. She actually helped me leave my abusive NPD ex. I had icky feelings with her for the past few years, but of course I minimized and turned my head to red flags. Thanks to your videos I have been able to trust my intuition about her, which I coupled with making a sobriety list about my past experiences with her that made me uncomfortable. Thanks for this invaluable insight! I am currently in the midst of trying to get rid of her out of my life, and as you pointed out, she has become very passive aggressive and guilt shaming in response to my boundaries. Ugh! I just want her gone from my life!
Dear Amanda. I had a friend for 30 years whom I 'saved' from her (allegedly) abusive husband 5 years ago. She lived with me close to 4 years and I was losing my mind. You really get to know someone when they live with you. Long story short.. I got her out of my house but she was hoovering... I blamed myself for not feeling right. I learned more and more.. and knew I had to get her out of my life completely... I didn't know how to do that.. Finally I just texted her that our relationship leaves me feeling resentful and in order for me to heal I need to be free of all resentments. That it is my responsibility for how I feel and that the freindship is over. please respect that. I got a text back.. short and sweet.. mirroring what i said to her.
I tell this to you so maybe you can go NC too! you will feel so much better.. best wishes
@@desire4liberation I am so sorry to hear that you experienced this cruelty and I am proud of you for going NC with her. Sorry, I realize now that I wasn't really clear in my last post, I have been NC for a few months, and she just keeps popping up. I'm really proud of myself for the times that she has been in contact, I have managed to dodge her. I have absolutely no plans to connect with her ever. I have been doing a ton of research to heal my codependency tendencies. The more time that goes by, and more incidents that happen with her (and so many other narcs!!!), I am learning how to keep as much distance as possible considering the situations. I love my new world of inner peace and harmony and will do anything to keep it warm, healthy, and loving with boundaries and continual self-reflection and development. Take Care!!
My abuser bragged behind closed doors that he could kill me and get by with it. When he broke my foot and the courts let him by with it, then, I dare say he's right! I left with broken bones and my finances broken. Do yourself a favor, GET AWAY FROM THEM NOW!
😔 sorry to hear that, best vibes to u
Shirley Ray from India ?
My Narc totally played the victim roll and still is. I feel sorry for the next person who falls for a victim narc. The narcissist kept saying they were an empath. I believed that. They can be very convincing. I went No Contact one year ago. I’m feeling free and happy now, thanks to all of these TH-cam channels about Narcissism.
My mom is a covert narcissist and I think identifies with the “hero” type.
YOU SAVE LIVES MEREDITH. THANK YOU 🙏
Scary finding a covert narcissistic disorder from a church leader where everything is kept confidential aka secret, and his flying monkeys become covertly involved. Watching your videos helped me tremendously in spotting them. I wish I've known earlier, I failed to guard my heart.
They thrive in churches!
Leaders are usually narcissists, in my experience. Our society really rewards this behavior in general. It is only their victims that really suffer. My mother was always the first one to run when someone had a sick baby in the building or offer her services to an elderly person. All while lying about her own daughter, me, while I was innocently trying to make her happy. That's all over with now, I am no contact and couldn't be happier.
@@jontisesamuelslewis7092yes such are many and hide behind religion
My mom is a covert narcissist. She has been successful in pitting me and my siblings against each other that all of us think that we have a legitimate beef with each other. I woke up to the fact that it’s my mom who is setting the drama up. Yet and still my siblings hate me and my mom acts as if she is dumbfounded to what is happening and also acts as if she hasn’t had a hand in making us have issues with each other. She tried to talk about my siblings to me and I wouldn’t entertain the conversation. I know that if she’s tried to do that with me, she definitely has tried with them. My siblings go along with my mom always so I’m not surprised that she would make them hate me. I’m just glad that I see her for who she is and I’m letting my siblings go so they can see for themselves without me being there to distract them. My heart and arms are open for them once they wake up but right now, I’m letting go and letting God. 🙌🏽
Wow, the same story here. But now my mom is in a nursing home. The trouble she use to cause is over, but believe it or not, she was able to last year to start up some lies against me. I am the BlackSheep of the family.
Your story resonated with me.
You made me realize that I should be more grateful as I am in a similar situation but my siblings see her as she is and we stay strong together, they support my decision to go no contact and I accept their staying in contact (I am in constant fear sometimes that they will be completely invaded by her but they are strong). My wishes go out to you, I really hope that something makes your siblings see the truth!
Thoughts of a Gemini Presents...Let’s Vibe! This is the same with me! I got tired of being the Golden Child. Not all golden children become narcissistic or like that they're favored. My mom wld favor me on purpose bc she knew it wld get back at another sibling that mad her mad. We also aren't very close bc my mom pits us all against each other but smh. My heart and arms are open to my siblings too once they wake up and I'm always praying for them but I will not be holding on either I'm giving it to God.
Couldn't relate more!
Thank you Meredith💕, this video was extremely validating! So many great points!
My parents are a less sophisticated form of the hero type. It comes in the form of showing concern and worry. They were always saving me from myself. They are always offering help, saying they don’t expect anything in return. They become the victim when others don’t accept their help, take their advice or don’t appreciate how kind and giving they are. The debt that is owed to them is emotional servitude, and loyalty to them.
They play the victim by smearing others to create a common enemy mentality, it’s “us against the world” mentality. Family is so important, it’s a scary world out there. But then they are also smearing their spouse or family member to others to appear that they are the abused. It’s crazy.
My ex also did that, and I have been seeing it in so many couples now. What I notice is how it first appears that they are a united, cute and doting couple. Then I notice that one of them is hesitant and very focused on the other, while the other appears frustrated. That’s the covert. “look at me, I’m all about the family, I will even put up with someone who is so frustrating”. That’s the vibe I get when I saw the home videos of Chris and Shan’ann Watts.
Then, of course, there’s the sophisticated heroes, the politicians and billionaire philanthropists.
What’s scary is that, even though I believe that I can spot a covert narcissist pretty easily, it is still so easy to get sucked into their manipulation, especially when I’ve been conditioned to do so for so many years.
You just described some of the workplace relationships I, unfortunately, have to deal with.
Michelle William's It is so hard when it is a workplace situation. And, often, if you change jobs, there are new covert narc to deal with!
Have definitely encountered the victim covert narcissist, and am glad to have the hero type clarified! It makes so much sense, and I've gone from being bewildered to understanding this unfortunate level of human psychological unhealthiness, so that's progress! Thank you for always providing so much clarity, and I'm so glad to see that you're on BetterHelp, what a fantastic way to help others!
Love your vaccine example. I've known about that for a long time. So glad you see through that, too. And thank you for framing it so well.
Thank you for this clarification. I was in a 25 yr. marriage with “the hero”. You hit the nail on the head. Bam!
I'm so glad for the ability to "pause" the video as I need to take a break emotionally after you've presented a specific area or edge the/my narcissist uses as their power over the/my victim per se. I cringe and get that whole pit in the stomach feeling and can't hear a word you're saying anymore because my mind is doing this electric buzz thing due to anxiety. I told myself I wasn't going to fall prey again. I have reviewed and reviewed your videos so that I'd be able to stand up mentally to the emotional games. Ha. Down. I. Fell. Hard. Twisted and knarled. Damn it she's good. OK, unpause, learn more. Try some. Don't ever give up!
Thank you for mentioning the truth of so-called "philanthropists." We need more truth like that
Honey, I was doubled wammed....raised by the first (my mother) and married to the second. Now that you have taught me how to put it in words, I can probably teach a class. Thanks and blessings.
You're not alone. Sending you a big hug ❤️
@@heliaalves9062 Thank you honey. It has been people like you that has kept me together. I am recovering because of the encouragement and faith.
@@reginapolo3357 God knows what you've been through, He will uplift you. May He bless you abundantly ❤️
These videos on narcissistic personality has happened me so much on my shelf searching my pattern of my life. Iv taking myself out of there life. And it seems like you disarming them when you take your self out of the situation.
They are extremely dangerous and crazy making. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. 🦋
The most troubling part of this all, to me, is, when we invest ourselves in any relationship... Like, *really* commit to be *all_in,* we find that everyones got an unhealthy dose of Narc in'em.
Edit: Good stuff Meredith; you're Teaching us all about ourselves...
Reminds me *(very much)* of Dr. Jordan Peterson's Core Message.
Respect.
Jordan Peterson is awesome and I agree the core of both our messages is about self-responsibility.
@Inner Integration
💯✔
@Leslie
I'm so stoked to see you've benefited from his Gift(s) to us all.
He's definitely been a blessing not in disguise for me.
Have you seen his latest Family update?
Posted yesterday:
th-cam.com/video/DTwEFa5NW2k/w-d-xo.html
@@InnerIntegration J Peterson is a fascist racist misogynist red pill advocate who promotes return to the Middle Ages & VICTIM BLAMING ..! And you call yourself awoken & a narcissism expert?!??.. Idk who payed you to endorse him here & in your podcasts but it's time for me to unsubscribe.. Guess people who criticized you in previous posts were right after all.. Your corrupted too, spreading the mentality that we are all narcissists.. You should declare your a Peterson fan openly in your next video so that people know who their dealing with.!!.. SHaMe .. 👎👎👎👎👎
@@maretijewel1470 hahaha omfg just stfu u dont know shit
100% 🎯
Yep they did constantly say how they were an Empath even though they were totally disconnected from themselves...
Overly cerebral etc. etc...
Your discription is my mother to a T, i have DID, IBS, fibromyalgia, etc, due to all her headfeckery.
I have purchased one of your courses to help myselves heal from all the past traumas so i can start to live a happier life instead of merely existing in turmoil n anguish. Just want to thank you as you have opened my eyes n helped myselves gain a better insight to WTF is going on n why i have struggled in the past wi my mental n physical state. 🥰
Thank you so much for shedding light on these different manifestations of covert narcissism. It's always bothered me when I hear covert narcissists decribed as the "shy" narcissist. Not because I don't believe they exist....Only because the covert narcissist I have lifelong experience with does NOT fit this description...which really confuses the issue and makes it that much more difficult for people to "see" the signs. My experience has been with a covert narc of the second type you describe... I have actually seen her go as far as to manipulate perceptions of others...negatively towards another....seemingly only for the purpose of then "playing the compassionate one" and "saving" that "underdog"....and thereby making it just about impossible for anyone to believe she was behind it all. It's about total control.
yes, sometimes they are not shy, not shy at all, more like 'the life of the party'.
If they “preach” loyalty it’s because they need it. They need it because they’ll put us through hell. Lol
Oh my gosh!! My husband has been pulling this one on me! I have been loyal to the point of near death and now he goes around saying he needs to be with someone who is loyal
@@Kayprofessor I completely understand this! You’re not crazy! This was also me.
I love this. Turn it into a Facebook meme post so I can click like on it without directly calling my narc friend and family members out to their faces to rage at me and make my life harder 😂
Couldn't have said it better myself.
You got that right. If they bring up “blood” and “we’re the only family you’ve got left” routine, RUN! 🏃♂️💨
This sounds like Malkin's concept of communal narcissism, which describes people who cherish their status and specialness as givers or humanitarians. I believe that the damage comes when they believe that their humanitarian actions gives them entitlement to damage others for the sake of the greater good.
Great insight! Like the elite pushers of population reduction who disguise it as humanitarian work and aid. Or like USAID, the regime change arm of the US government who offers “aid” to countries that comes in the form of covert coups d’etat.
ocpd23 yes, dr. Ramani also call this type: communal narcissist.
My husband is the hero covert narcissist. I’m working on getting out.
You can do this 💪🏼💪🏼 good things are coming your way! Xx
Me too. Almost out. I thought he was so much nicer than I was.
@S Sully how are things now?
@@Diana5513 I’m becoming closer to the end. IF everything goes ok it should all be done at the end of June. He shared he’s going to move out, that was 6 weeks ago....he’s still here. Really stressful however I see an end. Thank you for checking in!
I was married to one for 32 years... the peace & clarity I feel, has been life changing. Thank you for the work you do. I’m sending you a hug 🤗
Married 32 years too, I'm just discovering how bad it is, I'm kinda scared, I need to run away
Meredith I am one to rarely comment on these types of forums. But I can honestly say that you and your videos have been a revelation for me.
They have provided me with some belief in myself when there was a lot of self doubt about my perceptions and reality.
Thank you so much for honestly making a difference to my life. Its very hard to deal with when something is/was so addictive that you really want to believe that it is not what it actually is and does.
I have met the "victim" type who used my empathy to extract personal information to later use against me. At times, he was also the "philanthropist." Stated that he volunteered after work and helped children (if one is willing to believe him), yet, would hardly spend time with his own children.
Victim/Hero ExNarc~
One occasion he organized my surprise birthday. HERO
He forgot to send evite to my family and friends, but his family and friends got the evite. I was crushed. My reaction turned him into a VICTIM bc he only concentrated on “how dare you feel bad when I’m doing all this celebration for your. It was just a mistake but you can never appreciate my efforts”. I ended up apologizing for being so ungrateful. 😥
I’m not sure which category the covert narcissist that I dealt with would be in, but probably “victim”. She seemed nice to everyone, including me, but then I started to figure out that she was secretly sabotaging all my relationships due to her jealousy and envy of me and my relationships. I was her one target. This made her lies much more believable, because no one else had any issues with her. I was portrayed as one to watch out for, “but don’t let him know, as he has anger issues, (lie).” Finally, her deception got to the “wrong” ears, and I found out what she had been doing for many years. I had been wondering what was wrong with me. Now I see it wasn’t me.
Thank you for your help. Great video!!
Never was a good mood not turned into sometimes subtle & sometimes rage 'emotional terrorism'. How dare you bring contentment to someone needing an adrenaline rush off you. Shock and awe works well when your not understanding what is going on.
Brad McEwen Yours is a wonderfully accurate statement. I know exactly what you are describing.
My ex would do that. Ruin Xmas, birthdays, nights out and then be ok at the event.
Good, clear distinctions. Thank you. The first fits my mom, second my ex. Knowledge IS power and the toxification of my life by either ends now.
OMG.. ex narc came home from work and while I was washing dishes, my back towards him, i heard in a kind of celebratory tone, they are not putting NARCISSISM in the DSM anymore. And me, i looked over my shoulder while rinsing the dishes off and before bending away to put in the dishwasher, I said ok, as I briefly looked at him. I had no idea what Narcissism was. He caught me busy and not paying attention. THAT WAS HIS WAY OF SAYING IN HIS HEAD, "WELL SHE KNOWS NOW BC I JUST TOLD HER." Meredith, that was his justifying that i know now, it must be ok now that he's a narc, and he now can continue with his abuse. She was to busy cleaning the house to notice 😢🤮🤢 Ever so sneaky and twisting reality. Twisting the so called communication. I think work told him to go home and be honest with your wife. So he did but in a sick way. Ex narc ""had to"" move into a different field, a psychiatrist. Was in medical field. So, he must have been celebrating one of the covert narcs that uou mention here.
I have been studying C.N.'s now for over a year and living with one for 35+ years. With the help and guidance of a GREAT therapist , and an online program dedicated almost exclusively to Cn's. I have never seen or heard anyone else describe the "Hero" C.N. so well. Unfortunately, my STBX C.N. hits every damn single box. Almost scary how accurate you are. No, it is scary, not almost. OUCH!
Wow, Meredith!
This is a really concise analysis, to the point that I could envision different people from my past. It made me feel kind of ill, but it's also satisfying to know "how" they were able to cast their illusions.
❤
I love this video! Thank you for your insights. I think the sophisticated narc reminds me of covert narcs in a church leadership setting always acting like they are so holy, but behind closed doors are a nightmare.
Would you be able to provide insight into the similarities and differences of Covert Narcissists and Codependents? To me they are extremely similar and I'm unsure of why this isn't talked about based on how dangerous Covert Narcissists can be. I love your work. Thank you truly for all that you do 💌
Lindy Irwin I was thinking the same thing. I am affected very poorly by Codependents. There is no doubt a similar vein between Coverts & Codependents. They both cause oppression & siphon energy & well being. Personally, both types make me feel claustrophobic when I am around them. They both want something from people in a way that is very vampiric in nature. Codependents just seem very draining in a way that you can always expect, while coverts are more tricky & stealth in how they drain people out & use them. I think coverts actually really find it delicious to get away with what they get away with, while Codependents are truly more needy and try to stick to you, more because they feel they must have you in their life for their personal survival, versus Coverts who use people, like you are their gasoline/energy supply.
Yaaaasssss!!!
I would be interested in this specific distinction as well. I have experienced both sides of the coin and they are both unhealthy behaviours. I think co- Dependency is a conditioned response that can be changed with self awareness and effort whereas NPD requires self awareness too but they lack the self discipline, the desire to change, the willingness to change requires effort which is not their thing. NPD would rather manipulate others for gain than do it themselves, imho. NPD want others to do the work and they will take the credit
I believe codependents have an ‘anxious attachment style’. From my own personal experience this can develop from cognitive dissonance created by the narcissist. I’ve learned my lessons the hard way aka karma. I’m much happier being a single independent woman who’s learned self love. Experiencing duality, polarity provides the opportunity for soul growth and expansion of consciousness. Shit happens, orchestrated by the universe for our highest good.
They disguise themselves very well indeed. It's very hard to recognize them, which makes it especially dangerous. You can never be too careful.
Very valuable information! It's enlightening to understand the variations. It's helpful to be able to distinguish the behaviors, so that we know what red flags to look for. I've learned a lot of valuable healing information from you, Meredith. I've also learned, for myself, that it's not about finding the correct label to apply to someone in order to know which kind of narcissist they are. That really helps along the way for healing, validation, and understanding, but more importantly, it's about learning their behavior patterns, their game, so that we know to stay away from them. Thanks for breaking it down so well.
Thank you Meredith, your videos are very clear, concise and cut through the 'reality' the narcissist tries to build around you. My father is the victim narcissist and for years I played the Golden Child role (while my younger brothers played the Scapegoat) until it finally got too much. I wrote him a long letter detailing everything he'd done but he dismissed it as a 'eloquent tantrum', after which I went no contact. Once you realise he's never going to change and never take responsibility then the only sane thing is to cut yourself off, also for the sake of my wife and daughter. Keep up the good work, Meredith!
GEEZUS!!! just reading through the comments I realize they are everywhere.. Just in my life I have had so many... my mom, my ex, my neighbor, my 'best' friend. I see others experince so many as well... I wonder what the stats really are.
Excellent video. I'm currently dealing with a covert narcissist who is the biggest victim on the planet. I knew something was wrong with him but I couldn't work out what it was because he always played the 'empath' card and twisted reality so much I became physically ill with the stress. These people are SO dangerous. They can kill without ever laying a hand on their victims. It's high time they were exposed for the threat that they are. People need to know how they operate so they can protect themselves and get away.
Love your hairstyle. Thankyou for your concise and informative videos, they have helped me alot over the last year
Career victims indeed.
They target who they want to be. So you need to be wary of your "friends" that look up to you. That was the biggest red flag for me when figuring out how to discover a covert narc.
Going through a tough divorce with this type of narcissist.
Sara Manchego,You got a lovely smile 😊
Spot on. 17 years with a covert and her 'victim' stories now continues with the addition of her apparent 'sufferings' with me. the stories I have already heard now is close to me filing defamation charge against her.
Unfortunately, victim type is my husband and hero type is my father and mother in law. I always end up feeling guilty for something.
Hey Missis! Thank you! You are so spot on! Thanks many times! "Emotional terrorists" (I liked that one) Yes I have experienced both this two covert types in workplaces, and the sophisticated one: Scary scary scary.. (You dont believe it before you have been targeted...and they are often "the best friend with the boss" too)
Marit Ronning,You look cute 🥰,Hope you are not with a narcissist!
Marit Ronning,You look cute 🥰,Hope you are not with a narcissist!
@@jackpetersen7545 he he, Thank you! I have learned my lesson, thats for sure. I live by my self here in little Norway ( you know, the little state of us up in the northern part of the world . 🤔)
My brother and his wife do this together. They are like co-dependent covert narcissists.
i agree so much with you. I really think the narc wants a co-dependent relation with other its a trap
@@isabelleparise5607 Thank you Isabelle!
My ex covert narc literally describe himself as an empath on his LinkedIn page...he has 0% empathy capacity, has NO real friends, lies about everything and I'm during war in my country and he told me he doesn't care about war. I was in a video call with him (he lives in a different country) during a bomb attack on my house and I could've die, it was during the devaluation/almost discard faze, and he looked at me with the deadest eyes as if he couldn't care less if I live or die. I blocked him and went no contact after 2 months of hell.
Thank you! This is such a great analysis. Thank you! Especially helpful is your illustration of the language they use. Thank you.
I was in a ten year relationship with someone who is exactly like the person you described in the 2d part of the video. The clarity your content provides to me is very much appreciated.
Both my mom and partner are covert narcs. No one believes me. Weirdly my ex and my mom both play both these rolls. This is all completely accurate.
I get you, I believe you. No one believes me about my parents. That’s why channels like this are so validating.
Pigeonlvbrd I believe you. I’ve been there too. My greatest healing has been living alone. It feels so good to be alone, after a lifetime of working so hard to please my former husband. It is a relief to be alone and safe. My home is now quiet, calm, peaceful, clean and safe. What more could we want? A place to let our hair down, relax and refresh. Sadly, I was relieved when my mother died, that was 13 years ago. My tears weren’t because she died, but because of what could’ve been and never was. Very sad.
Your self care is what’s important and necessary now.
I believe you! I believe you! I know how much it hurts when no one believes the very real pain you are stuck left to challenge alone... and sometimes many times over. A very lonely place to be. And painful. Put your hand on your heart and say I believe me. I know this is real. Hugs!
Pigeonlvbrd ....my mom is the heroic/helping type of narc who called me difficult all my life because I wanted to be self sufficient like any other adult. She coddled my siblings now they are stunted and dependent adults. I'm in a healthy relationship with a long and gainful career in health care. 🤔Narc mom complains about their dependence on her but feels so glorified when she has to bail them out financially. Healthy boundaries will save you...and truth will come out one way or another.
It sucks because you look like the crazy person..it’s so unfair and BS! I’m so sick of years of this insanity..it’s driven me insane..once I get away completely from my family, I can’t wait to see if I just begin to be happy and more like me again
I like this new covert narc category because it fits my mom best. She always bought gifts and was lavish with them, but all her gifts were not to make me happy because she never really looked for my satisfaction, and then I felt I had to keep the relationship going because "her feelings would be hurt" (she always reserved her "right" to be a victim). No straight-up exchange ever happened between me and my mom, one that would actually make me feel good about myself and the relationship at the same time. I could not hold on to my self as an individual when I was with her. What a loss that I was not able to confront her about all this stuff because, although I always felt bad about our relationship, I could not understand the dynamic going on underneath. How do you confront when you are so confused about what is actually going on? Thank you Meredith for the information that helps me protect and care for my self which I am just starting to get back.
I can relate,
It's an endless power struggle that I choose to disengage from. I will always be punished by her regardless so I keep my distance and what's left of my sanity intact
My mom - the victim with hero tendencies
My dad - hero through and through.
Thank Meredith,...✌️ On 🌍 🙏Vero Puerto Montt Chile
Hey👋 there, I was wondering if covert narcissists can be both of these? Thanks for this video. I really needed this information.🤔👌💯💯
Yes some will go back and forth with the victim-hero roles. And some will even go back and forth from overt to covert.
@@InnerIntegration Thank you.😊👌
My mother, and her family, and my ex husband have all types of narcissism. Three years blocked and do not miss none of them. Thank you💜
All the time.
No matter what names humans call them. It's written were Jesus Christ says, they have demons in them.
Ive told my mother she should go to church but of course there's nothing wrong with her. I am not unfamiliar with supernatural events, it is a factor.
I was wondering the same thing. I already know this man has demons, I’m in a relationship with. I dream of it regularly.
I have asked him to get exercised.
I wonder if it could ever help him but I don’t have the patience to stick around. It’s only been a month we have seen each other.
@@CONNECT-icutHealingheArts pray for him. He needs to also believe in the LORD to be exorcised, he has to actually want to get rid of those demons.
I recommend watching David Lynn's exorcism videos to get an idea of what REAL exorcisms are like (not a person tied up lol), some people get exorcised as they are being baptized as well.
right , I feel who’s to say he won’t choose the demons again. He has made enough excuses where I gave up on him.
It was when I deeply prayed for him that his demons attacked me the first time in my sleep. They did not like the lord coming in.
I see how these demons help them to ruin someone’s life to get them dependent on them. So it’s not only the person working their ways but the demons that are working it for them when they aren’t even around.
Very sad.
I’ve been just praying for myself now that I am clear of any of that energy so not to bring it to any of my other relationships.
@@CONNECT-icutHealingheArts Yes, if the person allows it (whether consciously or subconsciously), those demons will embed themselves deeply into the person. It's difficult to break through to that person so it's up to them if they want to change.
I've been through similar situations before, for one I could not see them anymore but for others I prayed for them daily. Out of maybe 8 people, only one seeked God.
If you truly feel you cannot deal with that person anymore, that is understandable, let God do the rest if there is work to be done.
Also I've found that staying in/reading the word is incredibly helpful against demonic attack. If I hadn't read the Bible in a few days (whether because of schoolwork, etc.), demons try to tempt me and break me down in my dreams and in real life intensely. This spiritual battle is no joke.
God Bless
I've been involved with both types. So I can confirm your info is good. So many different expressions of the same 0 conscience predation.
My ex mother publicly uses both covert types (victim, hero), depending on the circumstances. Behind closed doors she became a full blown overt, or played the covert roles too, according to her mood.
3:20 "Emotional Terrorist"...best description I've heard yet. When you actually ARE an Empath AND a Codependent, you are the perfect prey for them. I'm so heartbroken from this that it's made me emotionally, mentally, and physically SICK. I'm seriously wondering if I'll make it. It makes me SOOOO SICK that I love this person as much as I do AND HATE THEM EQUALLY! It's not something anyone should have to go through.
The covert narcissist at my last work place was the hero when he wanted to impress people he didn't know, e. g. potential customers, visitors, or colleagues of other departments. He used either internal terms or words from datasheets the other person definitely couldn't know. When it came to impress someone with big or small numbers he multiplied everything by a variable "exaggeration factor".
Within the team he sometimes acted clumsily or made intentional mistakes. This way he got help from other team members or utilized them as flying monkeys.
BTW, the thumbnail image of this video fits well as it shows a nice narcissist's smirk, often mistaken for a smile.
Wow, that is the best description I have ever heard of the complicated person in my life. The other narcissist descriptions usually lean on outright attempts at control. That never fully fit with what I was experiencing.bbbut the victim description and the desire for your sympathy and for your resources is spot on.
Covert are mental, emotional and spiritual vampires. Mine was exhausting. I had to recover form seeing her.
DAMN!!! 8:20! You were already someone I look to for help. Now you are my new hero...get em.
The interesting part of your video was when you mentioned the comorbid part of narcissim with Boarderline traits. I would guess that most narcissits are not one thing or another. There is overlap with other personality disorders making them difficult to pin down. It’s complex, but there are common threads, such as lack of empathy, and a need to be hurtful. The covert types have simply learned to hide the overt parts of their disorder. They wear camouflage over their true personality. Clinically speaking, my guess is there really is no diffrence between, “covert,” narcissist and malignant narcissist. The covert, has simply learned to cover it up.
This is all very possible.
I agree that there are different types of covert narcs . My experience has been with my sister, observing her from both the internal family dynamic and the external all caring, giving etc. In her family she tres to control and manipulate at every turn and always has since childhood. Thanks for helping me define it , the crazy head is much calmer now!
Thank you for this video :-). What's weird is I see both types in my elderly narcissistic mother. I don't know if that's because she's perfected her skills but she's actually not all victim not all Hero. Very strange to see both characteristics in her but I do. Again thank you for your work.
they're doing what works for them
@@auroraborealis6398
So true. And perhaps with a bit of sociopathy mixed in with npd this makes for a tuned in skill for multi manipulation?
I have met the victim type and the description in this video is incredibly accurate. I always felt like I was the only one who saw her for what she was until I learned a few others see it too, but they are silenced by fear. How can anyone publicly criticize her when she has lost so much? She’s a survivor, isn’t she? No. She’s a predator. It’s so sad that these people get away with their horrible actions. I’m so thankful for videos like this that are helping to spread the word and unmask these horrible, distorted people. Thanks so much, Meredith!
You never stop learning, thank you...