Awakening | Thoughtless Space (Part 2)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Part Two of the "Thoughtless Space" series. In this video we discuss what to do (and not do) once you are able to lead yourself into thoughtless space either through inquiry or by other means. We also discuss the fear barrier in some detail and what often occurs beyond that. If you want to read my book which goes into this process in great detail you can find it on Amazon (Awake: It's Your Turn).
You can"t beat the game by playing the game, you have to be the game and stop beating yourself. ; o )
Yes!
Nice
You mentioned pure consciousness a few times here, at one point calling it that which is conscious only of itself (9:25). But is it really possible to experience nothing but experience itself? Wouldn’t that be the same as experiencing nothingness? And wouldn’t experiencing nothingness be the same as having no experience at all?
This fear happened to me once perhaps. I was at a meditation retreat (vipassana), in an evening meditation session. When the instructor told us to scan our body (vipassana is all about noticing sensations in the body) an electrical current in my shot up from my head to my feet. And then again from my feet to my head. So I just kept following it. No thinking. It seemed I was in a trance like state. My breathing became very rhythmic and I also heard this hum in my ears. I think the first thing that altered me that something is not right was that I got self conscious about my breathing. I thought the people around me could hear me. I also got very frightened. I didn't know what was happening to me. I was afraid to close my eyes again and meditate. The instructor noticed me looking around the room and later, after the session called me over. She told me to walk it off and that I must have burned a "sincara" and that I must have had great equanimity. I went outside to walk it off and I recall my jaw shacking so uncontrollably I had to hold it as to not knock any teeth out. The shacking went on for quite a while. I was also afraid to fall asleep that evening because I was afraid of getting into this trance and not walking up the same. At this point I was also considering that the meditation center was spiking our food with drugs. Although I woke up pretty normal and finished the 10 day meditation course.
Vipassana is very interesting. The point is to notice sensations in the body, good and bad and have perfect equanimity. And we will notice more subtle and subtle sensations. But in essence they are all the same, that is only particles arising and passing. That is the true nature of the world, only particles constantly arising and passing. Nothing more. We can realize this nature by going into the body and realizing that's all it is. That's what vipassana teaches.
Thanks for your comment. Yes those ten day vipassana retreats can be quite intense.
Please stop scaring me
Like falling and falling... deeper and deeper...
yes....
For me the barrier is anger but of course fear underpins it. It's like handling the early stuff but on a much deeper level, like a spiral. Then again it's not "my" fear. Is this the worm hole? Bottomlessness suffering. Action of non action?
Great videos. These two explanations on thoughtless space came exactly when I needed them. They addressed my current concerns perfectly.
One more question (that you may have answered in the past) : can it still be a thoughtless space if you have a song stuck in your head? I feel like that's as far as I can get sometimes, lol. No thoughts except an earworm blaring in my brain...
You might be surprised if in the moment you notice that the NOTICING of that song is itself a thought, and then you find a more intimate conscious experience, like actually closer to the song, which often melds into the undifferentiated consciousness. The non-conceptual thought is the distancing "noticing" thought of the other objects of thought including music :)
Kafka's "Before the Law" addresses the fear barrier very well. Or at least it addresses what happens when we listen to it.
Very few spiritual teachers go into this.....as if nondual awakening is all skittles and beer. My experience coming face to face with the breakdown in ordinary consciousness is fear......fear of either death or insanity or both. And to back away to safe territory (which is not really safe). I've heard it said (and you mention it too) is to do nothing. All doing is out of (egoic) resistence......... You say that the key is to get back to that thoughtless space......but thoughts arise........ The paradox of wanting awakening but not wanting it. I envy those who go through the gateless gate smoothly and painlessly, but it seems likes for most the "process" involves facing sheer terror.
I agree with you. It's rarely if ever a smooth process.
The surrendering to this death fear, was like witnessing my own funeral without the images/film. There were deep emotions, mourning, but it felt so right. It was a portal ‘in my experience’ once. Afterwards of course expectations came. Yep, never a dull moment. But it changed my daily life.
Thank you. It’s very helpful to hear you talk of the resistance/fear. I find the fear comes in pretty strong waves that rise up and then gradually wash over, especially when I spend longer periods in expanded quiet awareness and as my commitment to surrendering increases. It’s showing up for me in the work and social structures in my life changing and some seem to be breaking down. As I take these leaps of letting go inside, aspects of my life seem to be automatically morphing. It makes sense, and is scary. I know it is an excellent opportunity to trust more. It would be good if you would talk of this in a video. Thank you for chumming us along :-)
Yes learning to live unguarded "in the raw" definitely takes some getting used to (learning to trust, even the fears that naturally arise), but the willingness to do so is so valuable. I can't tell you how much some people struggle bc they are not willing to just allow certain emotions to be what they are. The deeper this goes the more important it is to trust everything in our immediate experience especially emotion. ☺
Thanks! Was waiting for this. Watching it tonight
What does surrender do?
It feels like giving up, wanting to die!
There are thoughts and emotions, but something doesn't want anymore, it's enough !!!
All of this appears "in space"!
The unknown brings all of this to light .....
What can be done?
The point is, nothing can be done ... it happens!
Yes!
So it is here😏 .... right now .... and it is seen👀
The only way is to stay .... but who stays?
Nobody .... just thoughts .... maybe it will end .... maybe not !!!
Endless story ...
@@birgit8996 .........
@Angelo
How nice that this limitless space brings you (Angelo) out ...... nice to see on your video💥😊
You are so helpful !!!
In the seemingly difficult story🙃
@@birgit8996 ☺️
When I try to stay in this state I very soon encounter fear and ill-will. Then I feel very tight, like in a straight jacket. It makes me feel helpless and I become very irritable. Also it feels as if I am supressing something resp. something is supressed. I get the sense that trying to stay longer could be harmful for my nervous system. When I then go out, the body seems to open up again. What would you suggest? Gradually increase the duration? Is there a reasonable amount of time we want to stay there without the expected shift to a more inclusive view?
Just keep returning to it and recognizing the thoughts and interpretations that go along with those sensations. As the sensations and the interpretations become less intertwined, it will be much clearer the difference between the physiologic response and the thoughts surrounding it. Specifically thoughts about "If I stay too long without thinking, it could be dangerous, I could do some damage to myself" are quite sneaky bc they seem to really compel you to return to the "life preserver" of thought, somewhat like an addiction. The key is don't judge yourself for the rate of progress etc. If it feels too much then just go to a relaxing environment and return when you feel curios again... "What is beyond that fear barrier??" At some point those thoughts will simply lose their grip, you will no longer believe them (just like any other passing thought). But the overall timeframe of this is of little concern, it's just a matter of time if this is something you feel truly compelled to realize :) Also the emotion chapter addresses helplessness directly :)
Crap there is an actual thing called a fear barrier… ha! Well, ok! At least now I know what’s happening 🎉weeee
Thank you for this session. I’m still in the process of finding the thoughtless space. There is a lot going on. I do have a question for you. How do you incorporate our daily tasks with consistent practice. Some days I feel like my ego is the great and powerful and other days I am just present. How does one maintain presence with having to think? Please keep these coming!
Maybe I’ll make a video about that. Most important is Dont try to constantly maintain anything especially early on bc you will just frustrate yourself. More like when you notice there is more natural presence, just tune into that frequency. Feel into it. Become receptive in general and watch where presence naturally unfolds all on its own.
Great opening visuals. Kinda reminds me of the old Twilight Zone series. Or maybe (more aptly) The Outer Limits. Strong pointers. Thank you.
Hi Angelo, I've experienced some traumatizing events in the past month and have been much more anxious and depressed as a result. I know this thoughtless space can be deeply healing, but because of the cloud of thoughts I feel so far away from accessing it. Then I get down on myself for having devolved lol. So is the practice the same? Or during these times of depression, does throwing in some different spices help? If so, what are they? Also, I know doing other things besides pursuing awakening is probably a good idea while I am dealing with these things. But the fact that I'm suffering a lot makes me feel like I " lost" all my progress, but I may have unrealistic expectations?
First of all go easy on yourself, it’s so easy for us to add unnecessary judgment to our experience because things aren’t going the way we want them to etc. whatever experiences arises, it’s perfectly ok. It’s valuable in these situations to do emotion and acceptance work (described in emotion chapter). Also no need to push yourself spiritually, natural meditation can be very valuable. Or even just walks in nature or naturally relaxing activities :)
I lost my husband 20 years ago after 5 years of soto zen practice. I thought I had achieved some calm but when the loss happened I was turned upside down. Actually strange to say but it was a gift, like I was this nice shiney tin of beans and bereavement the can opener!
Ok.
So obviously I’m am thinking because I’m asking this question.
Do I just keep on playing the game as co-creating this experience as I chip away with the quiet-isness inside?
Is the alignment process a part of this?
There is surrendering in that process and there is imagination. There is also sensation in that process.
Do I sound confused?
You don’t sound confused
I feel like I’ve arrived!.. at a place of been all-along….blessing ❤
Awesome 🤗
🙏🙏🙏
Thanks!
🙏🙏🙏
I have a lot of physical tension in the right side of my body, there is a strong sense of energy floating from my right side of my hip to the right side of my head. It can be what i am aware of in this moment sometimes in a thoughtless state but i am to identified with the tension. Is the right way to go really inside the pain or tension so that i focus more on 1 point how the energy is flowing or is it more a more background awareness where i am aware of the whole body and the senses and energy flowing? I hope i explained it well. You helped me a lot with your videos to stay grounded and where to look from or at during the process so thank you.
It’s perfectly ok to rest attention there in the vivid sense. You can also do some inquiry into “is there a belief that it shouldn’t be there or sense of resistance to that experience?” If so can you rest there? That may be a bit if a moving target which is perfectly ok too, doesn’t have to be an Exact location :)
@@SimplyAlwaysAwake Thank you for your fast reply ;) there is definitely sometimes a level of frustration and the thought i need to get rid of it of i need to fix i because i am now 2 years in this process and a long time is on the right side of my body, it feels there is definitely little process it goes deeper and more flowing but it's hard sometimes to stay aware and not to get attracted to thoughts like i want it to get over it. And that's creates another layer of tension. But thanks for helping and for your videos it makes you feel sometimes less alone during this challenging process for me.
@@propps2253 you’re welcome, I’ve had a couple similar questions lately I may make a video about this, it’s common
Thanks again
@@SimplyAlwaysAwake Sorry for another question if it's possible and for bothering you ;) it's more a follow up question. If i understand you correctly what i am aware at this moment, the energy and intuition will go to one center or focus point and it can move, i like what you said a moving target and in a vivid sense. But a lot of the time the tension is to overwelming or the energy feels to strong and it's like the energy comes to a wall and i can feel my whole right side of the body tension up or energy to my head feels to strong and overwelming, and i become automatically the tension itself or my awareness goes to it and become stuck, or solid and not fluid, not more aware of the energy flowing or the intuition where it wants to go. If i am fluid it's more a experience of feeling the energy from inside flowing to the tension itself and not from the outside becoming the tension. What can be helpful if this happends?
And is this just one way or a option, like in the video can you stay in a thoughtless space and just let everything happen without focusing on the moving target but more a full awareness or all inclusive experience or the background awareness with everything that is happening or more staying in another words staying at my center, or like another option seeing without labeling or if i sit my body will do different poses or other things or do i need to go deep inside and really unpack and focus on the moving target.
Sorry for my english i hope you understand me a little bit.
I feel like a fish out of water but I have no choice but to keep going
Go go go…. It’s always worth it ;)
@@SimplyAlwaysAwake don’t worry with Christmas coming up, i defo will 😂 what a wonderful time. Perfect to practice being in a thoughtless space whilst constantly being triggered 😂
🙏🙏🙏
Thanks for another great video. As a medical man, do you know what causes strong pressure between the eyes during meditation? Something to do with blood flow, or sinus pressure perhaps? I can't find anything convincing online.
A little hard to pinpoint the specific etiology but it's very common. I can't think of where at the moment, but I'm quite sure I talk about it in these videos somewhere. Essentially it's energetic in nature and is a result from deidentifying from thoughts. There are many energetic practices that directly address this specifically as well. Thanks for watching :)
@@SimplyAlwaysAwake Ah, cool. Thanks for the intriguing response. I'm gradually working my way through your videos, so I will dig deeper...
I have has some success in minimising these sensations, which for me show up as a kind of tension. I find when I am engaging in normal activities during the day, this tension can build up, so just taking some time to stop completely and bring awareness to this area helps. It seems to be a kind of trapped energy (tension in the muscles around the eyebrows and between), which requires intimate attention from awareness to allow relaxation of the area.
It’s important to feel relaxed when doing this, and, the relaxation should bring a smile to your face, which somehow you sort of feel inside as well. That inner smile IS the relaxation of an area which is being focussed on. It must be gently applied, and awareness is like the inner hand rubbing that smile of relaxation over the area. You shouldn’t imagine this or visualise it, just feel it. Ultimately, this energy needs to find some place to go. You need to somehow spread that tension out, because it has become so focussed in a single area. Try to use this method of internally spreading that tension with that inner smiling relaxation.
There is a strong link between consciousness and sensation. We (seemingly) consciously control our muscles, and thus, we can also relax them via awareness itself (again, seemingly).
The placebo effect could also be at play here, but it could also be the conscious tapping into the autonomic nervous system.
Zoom frequently into it and back into "space" - until it looses grip. Did the same, it helped.
Thank God for Angelo 🙏🏻
🙏❤🙏 its the end of the world as we know it
(Cool video!)
Thanks!
That was amazing information. Thank you!!
Glad it was helpful!
This has been so helpful. Thank you.
Welcome :)))