Wow, this makes so much sense and I am impressed by how coherent and unified this is, I respect that a ton! I also appreciated the Fusion vs Dynasty example, I often felt that you assumed a completely passive enemy in you past videos and these live examples really help to understand how to contest this playstyle and how teams can react if this is done to them.
often it gets a little complicated trying to show concepts that aren't vs a passive enemy, but remember the usual way to play vs an enemy that isn't passive is to do your setup first. not necessarily engaging first, but being the first to set up and force a commitment and yeah the concept is just there to help us figure out the best playstyle. working out who forces what, when, and who is ready for whatever gets forced, really tells us a lot about each fight concepts like these aren't things you have to live and die by, but they're useful as far as helping you find the critical moment
you can see elements of it in basically every fight too ^^ having various concepts and theories is fine, but they can only be useful if they actually help us digest what's going on in game
I'm an old player who was a diamond before I stopped playing ow1. now i'm older and less good, but if everyone watched this video, even the lowest ranked game would be more fun. thanks for everything even if unfortunately it won't be useful to me :). However, I watched the whole video with interest in personal growth. EDIT: I put a like on my own to get a laugh and hoping that even those with high ranks will advise those with low ranks to watch this video.
as a low elo player this is great for comprehending team plays, developing game sense and what win objectives are made up of, and understanding the motivations of higher/ pro level teams... watching it at first used to be bewildering but thanks to your breakdowns the live fights become a lot more digestible so thanks. dont think ill be able to put it into practice any time soon though LOL
@@EgoistCat enjoy is the key word! its hard to actually have fun as a spectator when you have no ides whats happening - this is another benefit of 5v5 and tank reworks (less visual clutter)
I really enjoyed the part where you explained 5v5 in comparison to 6v6, just speaking for myself but I'd love more explanation like that, it gives a frame of reference(6v6) to understanding the changes with 5v5. I'd love to see you break down specific roles, and what they are watching for, what are the queues to action, why are they positioned here and what are they waiting for to rotate or use a cd. Eb and Flow seems really easy to understand for 6v6, you do a good explanation of skirmish but it is still hard to visualize in an actual game for each role.
cheers man haha, i think that the audience for actual coaching vids and not “tips and tricks” is pretty small. but that’s ok. it’s meant to be a community resource :)
So in summary, in the non-committed phase of a fight you want to force the enemy into a situation where they HAVE to respond, by either making a play or giving up space, which then lets you set up your own advantages engage after absorbing that play / reducing their escape and resources available?
yeah exactly ^^ the positions you take, resources you use, timings you peek etc, you have to understand all of it as forcing a commitment. then once a commitment has been forced, you now have a solution to hard engage onto, since you know you will get enough of an advantage that the enemy won't be able to kite and counterpush in the way they would have if you just started a fight by running down main i think the seoul example shows how it's less of a secret strat in itself, but something that all comp's playstyles are built around
Now that this video is a few months old, do you still feel as strongly about this being the core of 5v5 macro? Or has anything major shifted in your mind since this video’s release?
Wow, this makes so much sense and I am impressed by how coherent and unified this is, I respect that a ton! I also appreciated the Fusion vs Dynasty example, I often felt that you assumed a completely passive enemy in you past videos and these live examples really help to understand how to contest this playstyle and how teams can react if this is done to them.
often it gets a little complicated trying to show concepts that aren't vs a passive enemy, but remember the usual way to play vs an enemy that isn't passive is to do your setup first. not necessarily engaging first, but being the first to set up and force a commitment
and yeah the concept is just there to help us figure out the best playstyle. working out who forces what, when, and who is ready for whatever gets forced, really tells us a lot about each fight
concepts like these aren't things you have to live and die by, but they're useful as far as helping you find the critical moment
I love the direct analysis at the end for the Seoul example, especially breaking down the ways they could have made their opening setup work
you can see elements of it in basically every fight too ^^ having various concepts and theories is fine, but they can only be useful if they actually help us digest what's going on in game
Agree. The OWL example was really helpful in showing the idea in action.
I'm an old player who was a diamond before I stopped playing ow1. now i'm older and less good, but if everyone watched this video, even the lowest ranked game would be more fun.
thanks for everything even if unfortunately it won't be useful to me :).
However, I watched the whole video with interest in personal growth.
EDIT: I put a like on my own to get a laugh and hoping that even those with high ranks will advise those with low ranks to watch this video.
as a low elo player this is great for comprehending team plays, developing game sense and what win objectives are made up of, and understanding the motivations of higher/ pro level teams... watching it at first used to be bewildering but thanks to your breakdowns the live fights become a lot more digestible so thanks. dont think ill be able to put it into practice any time soon though LOL
yeah hahah, making it easier to understand (and enjoy) pro games is one of the best uses of concepts like these
@@EgoistCat enjoy is the key word! its hard to actually have fun as a spectator when you have no ides whats happening - this is another benefit of 5v5 and tank reworks (less visual clutter)
I really enjoyed the part where you explained 5v5 in comparison to 6v6, just speaking for myself but I'd love more explanation like that, it gives a frame of reference(6v6) to understanding the changes with 5v5. I'd love to see you break down specific roles, and what they are watching for, what are the queues to action, why are they positioned here and what are they waiting for to rotate or use a cd. Eb and Flow seems really easy to understand for 6v6, you do a good explanation of skirmish but it is still hard to visualize in an actual game for each role.
using the player icons for the heroes is MUCH cuter than the scuffed character portraits
i've had to edit some fan made ones for all the new heroes haha. i hope they release official cute icons soon
@@EgoistCat whoa i couldn't even tell they were fanmades thats awesome!
Thank you for this! Very informative!
Found by Kajor rec
pog
You need more subs and views for this content bro, deserve better.
cheers man haha, i think that the audience for actual coaching vids and not “tips and tricks” is pretty small. but that’s ok. it’s meant to be a community resource :)
So in summary, in the non-committed phase of a fight you want to force the enemy into a situation where they HAVE to respond, by either making a play or giving up space, which then lets you set up your own advantages engage after absorbing that play / reducing their escape and resources available?
yeah exactly ^^ the positions you take, resources you use, timings you peek etc, you have to understand all of it as forcing a commitment. then once a commitment has been forced, you now have a solution to hard engage onto, since you know you will get enough of an advantage that the enemy won't be able to kite and counterpush in the way they would have if you just started a fight by running down main
i think the seoul example shows how it's less of a secret strat in itself, but something that all comp's playstyles are built around
Now that this video is a few months old, do you still feel as strongly about this being the core of 5v5 macro? Or has anything major shifted in your mind since this video’s release?
really fucking good video man, really interesting!
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