you can possibly deny the whole wave, by staying at the pull, the trick is to pull the camp when the fist melee creep is in between the area of the camp you want to pull, this to make sure that the first in to hit and be hit is the range creep and is the first to die, make sure to deny the range creep immediately in this way only one creep from your wave is hitting the camp and to make sure also not to cut the trees around the camp, it will help block your melee creeps ,,, sometimes after denying the range you will end up with one melee creep hitting the camps and the other 2 are just running around trying to get into the camp.... the downside to it is your leaving your carry to fend on himself, because you will have to stay at the pull to help deny the creeps.
Great video! Absolutely love your content. Couple tips: - there is a quick phrase 'Pulling creeps' + 'Careful'. Very useful to have them on your chatwheel - I disagree a bit with how to make a pull decision. Current lane position is not the most important thing. The most important thing is where the lane is going. Usually it is quick to determine by looking at the amount of ranged creeps on each side. You should never full pull when the lane is pushing towards you, it is grief and gives kill potential on you and your carry - not all people understand that full pull leads to 'double wave' on your side later. As you mentioned with lotus example. Just stressing this separately. It can have its own advantages and disadvantages - in current dota half pulls are king. Just as you said in the video, but can't stress this enough. It lets half of your creeps die out of enemy exp range (that wouldn't happen otherwise), the other half would protect our carry and keep the enemy creeps from dying under your tower. It can be done even if lane is pushing towards you. 2-3 successful half-pulls absolutely WIN the lane most of the time
And now do a part 2 for soft support! Would love to hear your thoughts on how priorities and dynamics of the support battle play out and how to influence it etc :)
Not only risky.. if your match up is bad, they will deny everything while harassing you.. Enemy will also pull with the hard camp to evaporates their camp and just tank the creep for next wave.
video suggestion : item builds, what should we do against: magical heroes ( like pugna ) ... heavy magics ( SF and leshrack) ... heavy high physical damage dealers ( PA ) ... healers ( oracle ) ... tanks ( CW ) ... anti-tanks ( spirit vessel or someone like AA or doom ) and ... someone like bloodseeker and high illusion hero's ( CK ) AND how to pick right hero in pick and ban for this guys
I got it, I got it… Spend about 2000+ hours in Dota (at least) and then use… your… brain 😂 But seriously, if you study the items and heroes in the game, you know what every item does, you can approx think what counters who. E.g. counter Pugna with: magic hood + upgrade it into shroud vessel orchid nullifier Save yourself with: Manta Lotus orb Satanic Eul Force staff Hurricane pike Bkb Disperser This requires you to know what each of those items does and which item fits which heroes. You probably won’t get the Pike for a Ogre, but Lotus orb is the perfect fit. But yeah. Good suggestion. Hope Adrian sees this.
In defense of the supports, the number of times they have a perfect wave equilibrium as a support right in front of their towers and the HC starts pushing carelessly is really sad. Meaning they start doing it in auto mode to prevent that happening on solo Q since they are used to that happening.
@@noctarem96 I play more support than core, and find the pulling logic, or lack of, when playing core more frustrating than the core not managing the wave correctly.
yeah, the most important step is to let your carry know you are pulling, especially in low bracket. they never realize when support gone, and keep contesting cs on any area
Similar to how some supps just think “I should pull” without knowing why, it might be a good video idea to discuss why and when to stack given your draft. Sometimes you’ll see some support spend far too much time out of lane, stacking camps. Meanwhile, the core isn’t even able to farm stacks without their farming item, that they can’t farm now because the camps are too stacked lol. I’ve also seen Pos 4s omega stack the triangle in games that they’re behind in, just for the enemy death ball to come farm it themselves. Stuff like that
I absolutely cannot count just how many times my pos 5 just throws the game by pulling the lane when the creeps wave are already at the perfect position, causing the wave to get pushed so much I couldn't even stay in the lane anymore. Then have the audacity to blame me when the lane becomes straight up unplayable.
The amount of times i have a full wave hitting me under my tower plus 2 enwmy cores while my support is getting the bounty rune or sitting behind tower and me and the wave is insane
The thumbnail alone is tempting me to keybind this video's url. I swear, supports leaving when i need them, to mess up the perfect equilibrium, makes me want to just play both support and core.
Dark seer would've died regardless and probably because of his own fault. He knows that weaver left to gank bot, so rule of thumb in sidelane is play it safe when you're alone, unless you have info on enemy whereabouts. All he has to do is take the L and wait 30~ seconds for weaver to come back to lane, but nope. He became aggressive for no reason without respecting the 2v1 routine play resulting to his unnecessary death.
Imo the best rn is to clear the small camp as fast as possible and use it as a way to delay the creeps walking to lane equilibrium. This delay causes the equilibrium to move and reset backwards right outside safelane t1 range. Not to mention it clears the camp for a pull to be available in the next minute and more xp for the supp.
I mean strong duo laners want to assert their dominance in lane while weaker duo laners want to stem the bleeding and just wanna shove the wave then pull or alternatively steal the wave and drag it around for the next creep wave.
7:45, this is a life-saving moment! Geez, thank you, Adrian!
you can possibly deny the whole wave, by staying at the pull, the trick is to pull the camp when the fist melee creep is in between the area of the camp you want to pull, this to make sure that the first in to hit and be hit is the range creep and is the first to die, make sure to deny the range creep immediately in this way only one creep from your wave is hitting the camp and to make sure also not to cut the trees around the camp, it will help block your melee creeps ,,, sometimes after denying the range you will end up with one melee creep hitting the camps and the other 2 are just running around trying to get into the camp.... the downside to it is your leaving your carry to fend on himself, because you will have to stay at the pull to help deny the creeps.
Great video! Absolutely love your content.
Couple tips:
- there is a quick phrase 'Pulling creeps' + 'Careful'. Very useful to have them on your chatwheel
- I disagree a bit with how to make a pull decision. Current lane position is not the most important thing. The most important thing is where the lane is going. Usually it is quick to determine by looking at the amount of ranged creeps on each side. You should never full pull when the lane is pushing towards you, it is grief and gives kill potential on you and your carry
- not all people understand that full pull leads to 'double wave' on your side later. As you mentioned with lotus example. Just stressing this separately. It can have its own advantages and disadvantages
- in current dota half pulls are king. Just as you said in the video, but can't stress this enough. It lets half of your creeps die out of enemy exp range (that wouldn't happen otherwise), the other half would protect our carry and keep the enemy creeps from dying under your tower. It can be done even if lane is pushing towards you. 2-3 successful half-pulls absolutely WIN the lane most of the time
And now do a part 2 for soft support! Would love to hear your thoughts on how priorities and dynamics of the support battle play out and how to influence it etc :)
that io tether pull near the end is a next lebel play
I think the biggest tip i learned here is that if you're a liquid fan, never search up the result of a series vs gaimin gladiators. Thanks Adrian!
did not age well
@@mrfreemansmith gg had their number whole year just to finally be beaten by them 3-0 when the stakes were highest. Wp liquid
When you pull in herald, the core comes and kills all neutral creeps lmao
Not only risky.. if your match up is bad, they will deny everything while harassing you.. Enemy will also pull with the hard camp to evaporates their camp and just tank the creep for next wave.
video suggestion : item builds, what should we do against: magical heroes ( like pugna ) ... heavy magics ( SF and leshrack) ... heavy high physical damage dealers ( PA ) ... healers ( oracle ) ... tanks ( CW ) ... anti-tanks ( spirit vessel or someone like AA or doom ) and ... someone like bloodseeker and high illusion hero's ( CK ) AND how to pick right hero in pick and ban for this guys
I got it, I got it…
Spend about 2000+ hours in Dota (at least) and then use… your… brain 😂
But seriously, if you study the items and heroes in the game, you know what every item does, you can approx think what counters who.
E.g. counter Pugna with:
magic hood + upgrade it into shroud
vessel
orchid
nullifier
Save yourself with:
Manta
Lotus orb
Satanic
Eul
Force staff
Hurricane pike
Bkb
Disperser
This requires you to know what each of those items does and which item fits which heroes. You probably won’t get the Pike for a Ogre, but Lotus orb is the perfect fit.
But yeah. Good suggestion. Hope Adrian sees this.
@Allaxys I need to play 1300 hours :( to understand this :(
@Allaxys what about mage slayer ?
The number of times i have a perfect wave equilibrium right in front of my tower and the support pulls is really sad.
Siempre me pasa y me preguntó por qué tienen 💩 en la cabeza
In defense of the supports, the number of times they have a perfect wave equilibrium as a support right in front of their towers and the HC starts pushing carelessly is really sad.
Meaning they start doing it in auto mode to prevent that happening on solo Q since they are used to that happening.
@@noctarem96 I play more support than core, and find the pulling logic, or lack of, when playing core more frustrating than the core not managing the wave correctly.
Probably the same as the times I've pulled to get the lane in front of the tower for my lvl 4 pa to think she's strong enough to 1v2 axe and hoodwink
Na. Its worse when the support dont bring sentry to lane. And I gota deal with enemy pulls.
yeah, the most important step is to let your carry know you are pulling, especially in low bracket.
they never realize when support gone, and keep contesting cs on any area
Keep up the good work 👏
Similar to how some supps just think “I should pull” without knowing why, it might be a good video idea to discuss why and when to stack given your draft.
Sometimes you’ll see some support spend far too much time out of lane, stacking camps. Meanwhile, the core isn’t even able to farm stacks without their farming item, that they can’t farm now because the camps are too stacked lol.
I’ve also seen Pos 4s omega stack the triangle in games that they’re behind in, just for the enemy death ball to come farm it themselves.
Stuff like that
that first example was so good actually
Very usefull workshop map is CREEP STACKING TRAINING, enjoy)
I love doing half pulls or just range pulls, which creeps are you going for?
they are by far the best since you deny those creeps for sure... better than pulling without a stacked camp
I absolutely cannot count just how many times my pos 5 just throws the game by pulling the lane when the creeps wave are already at the perfect position, causing the wave to get pushed so much I couldn't even stay in the lane anymore. Then have the audacity to blame me when the lane becomes straight up unplayable.
Then you just go to farm the small camp below tower and when the lane is back, you farm the creeps. There’s always a way to farm in early game.
The amount of times i have a full wave hitting me under my tower plus 2 enwmy cores while my support is getting the bounty rune or sitting behind tower and me and the wave is insane
good video, I'm wondering though, when do I know that I can safely rotate to power rune to secure it for mid?
The thumbnail alone is tempting me to keybind this video's url. I swear, supports leaving when i need them, to mess up the perfect equilibrium, makes me want to just play both support and core.
if you pull 1 creep out of four - it is quaterpull, not a halfpull
Dark seer would've died regardless and probably because of his own fault.
He knows that weaver left to gank bot, so rule of thumb in sidelane is play it safe when you're alone, unless you have info on enemy whereabouts.
All he has to do is take the L and wait 30~ seconds for weaver to come back to lane, but nope.
He became aggressive for no reason without respecting the 2v1 routine play resulting to his unnecessary death.
pulling the hard camp to the small camp is a lost art.
it's just risky for no good reason is all. better to just half pull and walk to fight.
Imo the best rn is to clear the small camp as fast as possible and use it as a way to delay the creeps walking to lane equilibrium. This delay causes the equilibrium to move and reset backwards right outside safelane t1 range. Not to mention it clears the camp for a pull to be available in the next minute and more xp for the supp.
Early bird gets the mmr
Can i report my supports for single pulling every wave and double waving it in2k?
Олег 🥶
man.,....... my pull up game is so bad... i got 4 kids now.
Good chanell
I win my lanes most of the time coz i right the shit out of the offlaner. Armor depending.
U should say subscribe Ur channel then Ur pull will help u get lv30 exp directly 😂😂😂
None of these matter. Liquid proved it, they got swept by Gaimen Gladiator👎.
Bro
You are not a man if you pull.
I mean strong duo laners want to assert their dominance in lane while weaker duo laners want to stem the bleeding and just wanna shove the wave then pull or alternatively steal the wave and drag it around for the next creep wave.
@@imfinishedgrinding638 I made a sex joke but aight.
ahahaha. japan would love you sir
Please, do not show examples from PRO dota, it's different game than a 2k players, this examples is not helpful and can't be used in normal matches
What exactly are you talking about? You can't pull in a normal match?
Bad take