The Guide to Tangzhong and Yudane
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024
- Tangzhong and Yudane are 2 very popular methods for making soft bread that keeps fresh for longer. In this video, we dive into the 2 of them: Where they're originally from, what's the difference between them, which one is better, how to make them properly, and more! Enjoy!
#tangzhong #yudane #waterroux
feat. @SeraphineLisheChannel
We have many new videos on Tangzhong/Yudane, you may want to have a look: th-cam.com/video/_mFYeiLzLpo/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/DjQ7EtvzK_w/w-d-xo.html
Beautifully explained. Not only „how" but more important ”why". Thank you.
This is the best video on the methods that I've seen. It is thorough and practical without being long-winded for the average baker.
For someone like me who is just getting into bread making this was such a joy to watch. Such a well explained video on both of these methods. Thank you.
Glad you think so, thank you very much 🙏
Wow Great great explanation
Thank you so much for all your hard work and sharing ❤❤
Awesome video. Very "Indonesia's Test Kitchen." Can't wait to try. Thanks for the great video!
One of the rare times i watched a full video on TH-cam
I wanna try and eat it! I'm Japanese ,but I have no idea about Tangzhong and Yudane . Have a nice weekend from Japan🍞
Another master hit in explanation chef Novita ! Sounds like a documentary episode 💫💫💫
Thanks that answered all my questions, my first attempt had been sticky so I tried preheating the bowl and it worked perfectly 🎉
This is so cool and well put! Thank you for sharing
Glad you enjoyed it but this is an old video of ours. You may want to check out some of these new videos:
th-cam.com/video/DjQ7EtvzK_w/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/hd-vdRnb-JI/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/Vpcmunba9wA/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/Pf5HSzBK6zo/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/qdOHmdTTs24/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/_mFYeiLzLpo/w-d-xo.html
Fantastic well scripted in detail explanation! You our fellow baker get 5 stars 🌟 🌟 🌟 🌟 🌟
Awesome video and very interesting 👍
Actually, I baked some bread couple months ago which required tangzhong but did it completely opposite where I put flour first then water. Never gave it a thought😅
Now with your guide and explanation, I would try that same recipe again hopefully to get a better texture of the bread. Thanks!
Thanks a lot!! Amazing explanation, i was looking for it! Good luck!
This is what I try to find out. Thanks for sharing madam.
This is awesome!!
Excellent teaching!
🙏 thanks
Excellent work
I'm glad I found this video.
Finally a very thorough explanation!! 👏
Glad it was helpful!
Just made my first Yudane Sandwich Bread, its sitting on the cooling rack right now. And a sourdough sandwich bread dough is sitting on the bench for bulk fermentation, wich will go into the oven next. Like the comparison and the test results are interesting to know.
Very informative - thank you!
Great ! It is useful very much! Thank You .
👏👏👏👏Excelente!!!🥰🙋♀️ Gra 🇦🇷
I am going to incorporate this with a rye bread. Poolish and Yudane. I just started the rye poolish. I suppose I should make the Yudane now as well. Great . Fingers crossed.
You are a star!
Thank you for a great explanation 👍
Amazing
very complete guide! thank you
Thank you for your comment!
Great explanation.
brilliant explanation ,thank you xx
Omg, your explanation is so smooth and clear that I actually paid attention to the video instead of zoning out like i usually would lol. Thank you also for pointing out about the temperature of the water which I forgot to consider as well. High quality video, thanks for the guide can’t wait to start baking ☺️
Thank you so much for your kind and warm comment, happy baking 🙏
I have been using the tangzhong method adding the hot to the milk/water then adding the remaining ingredients. I heat the tangzhong in the microwave. Turns out great every time..
Wow very amazing explanation through out my research regarding these two techniques your tang zongh consistency is very different, where yours is more liquid in comparison to others.
Very nice video and explanation, now what are the proportions to use them?
Thank you
Thanks for taking the time to make this video. Will try it in my next milk bread recipe.
Kindly be informed that this is our old video on Tangzhong and Yudane, we have many new videos on Tangzhong/Yudane. Basically, we do not differentiate between the two and we do not encourage the use of Tangzhong 1:5
@@NovitaListyani In that case, I will try the 1:1 ratio in my next recipe. Thanks!
Bread and ice cream. That's new to me!
What a great video. Excellent writing, explanation, and useful shots illustrating your main points. I'm going to use this technique over the weekend. I'm much more confident having seen your work.
Thanks 🙏
Am watching some baking lesson here in Europe Spain they maybe keeping it as a secret in baking. One example the making of the famous Christmas bread the PANETONE. In Philippines I think they are using the tangzhong method keeping the bread soft even it last more than one week still soft.
Interesting! Thank you for the information.
Perfect explanation. I need this for a week. Thanks a lot
KANGEN KONTEN PETUALANGANNYA KEK DULU
Wow!
Educational!
Thank you for sharing!
Greetings from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.
Edith, a apreiative Subcriber
Thank you! Kindly be informed that this is an old video, we have a new video on Tangzhong/Yudane with the latest information on this method, do check it out here: th-cam.com/video/_mFYeiLzLpo/w-d-xo.html
👍👍👍👍👍
Thank you for the tutorial. Your insights only apply to gluten-containing flours, right?
I gotta try this asap but please I need a couple of details ; so it's just flour and water, no salt, sugar, yeast etc rite? Would you recommend that you proof the dough multiple times also how long/hot must it bake for? Thx in advance
This is an old video, we recommend our newer videos for information on how to use Tangzhong/Yudane.
I have been using the t
🙏 merci de paris
What is the max percentage of thewater you would use in your yudane? For example, if I do yudane 30 at 1:2 ratio I would use up all the water recipe calls for. Would that be okay. I’m using a 60% hydration dough
Watch this th-cam.com/video/OpK1CeW9xm8/w-d-xo.html
Boa tarde gosto dos seus vídeos, mas podia ter legendas noutras línguas como o português. Muito obrigada
Excellent video.
I think I prefer the tangzhong method. Easier to mix and easier to guarantee the right temperature is reached.
We used to think so, not anymore :) Watch our latest video on Tangzhong/Yudane th-cam.com/video/_mFYeiLzLpo/w-d-xo.html
Tell us what you think. Thanks for your comment.
@@NovitaListyani Ha. Ok will have a watch tomorrow. I made tangzhong bread rolls today and they came out pretty good. But I haven't tried the Yudane method yet.
Hi thank you for your scientific explanation. I tried this formula using Speltflour, since I body cannot tolerate regular flour, I have no problem using Speltflour. I used 30g of 100° C water and 30g of Spelt type 1050, but the Yudane is not as firm as yours. After adding the ingredients, it is very sticky...have you research and experimented with Speltflour?
We don't have much experience with spelt flour, but judging from scientific data, in terms of starch, there shouldn't be much difference between spelt flour and wheat flour. Although, overall, perhaps it would be more apt to compare spelt flour to whole wheat flour, in this video we use bread flour. Another point to note is that Tangzhong/Yudane is supposed to be sticky, by the way, gelatinized starch was once used as glue.
Glad 😊 I found your channel. I like your strat forward explanation, have been in the colenairy feed for years have not had good results scolding flower. I'm going to try the stove top method
I just put together a dough using the Yudane method. From past attempts, it seems the method I use with the freshly milled whole-grain flour gels up very well and I have trouble integrating it into my dough. I decided this time to blend it up with the remaining water in my recipe, has anyone tried this?
Love the videos! Is this not a Choux minus the butter?
How much Yudane or TangZhong should I use compared to original amount of flour?
Thank you for your informative video, highly appreciated. I want to bake mixed rye milk bread but i want to use tangzhong method.. how do incorporate it into the recipe ?
For yudane one way to heat the bowl could be to place the heat proof bowl over the sauce pan while the water is coming to a boil, like you do with a bane marie.
What is that flour?
I will try this with my banana bread. I will be replacing yeast with baking soda + powder.
is it possible to make a good tangzhong without a thermometer?
amazing video.
How much % of the total flour would you recommend to do yudane with?
if the main objective for yudane is to breakdown the starches, can we substitute high protein flour with low protein flour? only for Yudane improver?
The main objective of Yudane is to gelatinize the starch. Of course you can use low protein flour, but you need to know that the amount of flour you allocate for Yudane is somehow denatured and if this amount is deducted from the final dough, you are left with less protein to work with, if that's what you want then that's okay.
Can u tell the ratio of water and flour
i dont get it. Iam using the tz method for our brioche. so with TZ i can bind more water then yudane? yudane only 1:1. so more water in my mixer at the beginning?
For more information on this topic you may want to watch our latest video on Tangzhong/Yudane: th-cam.com/video/_mFYeiLzLpo/w-d-xo.html
If you make tangzhong in normal recipe call for 4000g bread flour and water 1930g what is percentage for tangzhong in flour and water? Did I need to add more flour and water for making tangzhong? Need to get them from normal recipe
Anywhere from 10-20% of your total flour, so for your recipe between 400 to 800g of flour for your tangzhong.
Just remember to deduct the flour and water used in the tangzhong from the main recipe. You might need to add a little more water if you lose some to evaporation. The dough will tell you as you're mixing/kneading
@@thiccchad6690 thanks a lot
@@marchache thanks a lot
Hello, i have two questions. How long can we store yudane in fridge? And would it still work well if we use it in making salty bread?
At 7:50 there is information leaving TangZhong in the fridge, it should be okay to leave it up to a week or a little longer as long as it doesn't go bad. The same goes to Yudane.
Thank you for the useful video, but the most important question, and I have not found an answer yet, is how to convert a normal bread recipe into a bread recipe with tanghzone. I know that 5%-10% of the amount of flour in the recipe is calculated to make tanghzone, but what about water or milk is it? Extra or from the same amount of liquid in the recipe
We are actually working on a new video and in it, there's a section on this. To put it simply: the flour used for tangzhong or Yudane can be 5% to 10% (for tangzhong) or 30% (for Yudane) of the total flour used. Let's say if your original recipe calls for 200 g of bread flour, then your tangzhong flour can be 10g (5%) up to 20g (10%), and you will have to deduct this number from the 200 g above that's meant for final dough . Depending on the method you use, the water for the so called Tangzhong method usually 1:5, so it is between 50g (5%) to 100g (10%). You then again reduce these amount of water from the original recipe, so let's say for 75% hydration (140g), the main dough now requires only 90g (5%)or 40g (10%) of water. All other ingredients stay the same, as these methods are all about starch gelatinization involving water and flour only. There's no difference between liquid milk or water, as liquid milk contains 87% water, the rest being fat and solids, you can adjust the percentage of tangzhong higher, but need to do the same adjustment after that. I hope this simple explanation helps.
@@NovitaListyani
@@NovitaListyani
But I read on some sites that not adding extra liquid will lead to a dry dough, and the rest of the ingredients do not benefit from the water in the tanghzone mixture because it is simply trapped, is this true?
Hmm, is there a solid scientific reason to add more water? After our tangzhong gelatinized, it goes into the process of retrogradation, as this process continue, water leaks out through syneresis, further mixing and kneading will result in more water coming out from the gelatinized starch, for example from water trapped within granules that were not ruptured etc. There may be a reason to add more liquid, but from our personal experiences, the dough with tangzhong is usually very sticky as is.
If this is simply a result of starch gelatinization, would it be possible to make it with other things than wheat flour ? Any kind of starch ?
I have no answer to that, I have never tried it. I think as long as it's palatable, it may work, but it may take lots of experiments
It depends on which starch. Some starches will become gelatinized once, but then will give up their liquid, like corn starch (corn flour in UK). Potato starch does not become gelatinize in the same way. The molecule is too small, so it doesn't bind. There are too many "starches" that exist, some of which ppl think of as starches but aren't.
Anyway, try some of them, and see what happens. At most you'll lose some flour, water, salt, and yeast. But you'll gain some experience, which is quite valuable, in the end.
Very interesting video, thanks.
Do you think i can make a cold slurry into a jar and then sous vide it at 63° for 45 minutes? Maybe decreasing water to 80% instead of 1:1?
The normal yudane works for me 50% of the times.
We have a new video on this subject: th-cam.com/video/_mFYeiLzLpo/w-d-xo.html
Basically, to ensure full gelatinization you want to have the starch of the flour in excess water, in the new video we explain 1:1 flour to water ratio is sufficient for gelatinization to happen if the slurry is subjected to heat above 65°C. Using ratio below 1:1 will not get us full gelatinization, also I think sous vide, 1:1, may not be that practical with flour, but you can do it with wheat starch.
I'm curious. Can tangzhong and/or yudane be frozen?
That's not a good idea, it will lose its capability to hold water. This study from 1935 has some technical information in case you are curious: naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/IND43968802/PDF
I assumed as much. I figured I'd ask anyway just in case someone had experimented with it. Thank you for the reply and the link for a deeper dive.
Is transferring the mixture to a cold bowl a complete necessity? I ask as someone who loathes washing dishes after making recipes!
Nope
After I made the Yudane, should I wait overnight to use it to make shokupan, or I can use it a couple of hours when the yudane is cooled down to room temperature?
Explain here 10:19 within the video, either way is okay, it doesn't really make much difference
@@NovitaListyani thank you so much
hi, is that the correct consistency of tangzhong? most recipes I've seen online requires your tangzhong to be more a paste-like, clings on your spatula, not ribbon smooth despite the temp
Hello, based on our own experience and research in the science behind it, as long as the starch in the flour has been properly gelatinized(60-65°C), then it will give the benefits of Tangzhong. As for the variations of consistency, we've been searching for the science behind it, but we couldn't find any supporting research on it.
So feel free to try it out :)
@@NovitaListyani Thank you!
I did the same searching but online, and couldn't find anything that said it had to be one way or time other.
When I started trying the tangzhong method, meaning cooking the water and flour cooked in the pot, the majority of sites in English showed the "paste" needed to thicken enough that it stuck to the spatula with which one stirred. It worked very well!
Then I encountered the recipe that used the 1:5, flour to water, ratio, which I also tried. Unfortunately my results were not as successful. For one, I couldn't really see if my "paste" was cooked completely. The problem was the thermometer. I only own an instant read one, and don't see myself buying an infrared one for the very few times I'd use it. So, yeah, my instant read thermometer couldn't accurately read the tangzhong with so little depth, even if I tilted the pot.
The other issue was that by using so much more liquid, I was removing that much more from the main dough, so my stand mixer had to work that much harder. I can't knead due to physical limitations, so I need to use the mixer.
Finally, I don't think I can do the yudane method either for the sake reason. Handling a pot or kettle with boiling water is not my idea of fun. Too scary! And, as you mentioned, the rapid cooling of the mixture would not succeed in creating a gelatinized flour. And especially not in my kitchen which stays at about 17°C year round. I'll bet there are plenty of bakers in my predicament that just skip over these fascinating bread recipes, just like I used to, because of so many obstacles.
I wish I could tell them it can be done, easily, with just a few tweaks.
Thank you for posting this video. I truly appreciate it when someone takes the time to explain AND show exactly the why's and how of the methods that go into making something that seems so simple like bread.
From my baking heart to you. ❤️🍞🍔🧇
I have tried these methods for a few years now…with mixed results. At times my bread is soft and fluffy. At other times it has turned out like a brick! So….
Hey. Great info!
I make my breads with whole wheat. If I introduce yudane to it I guess I should add some vital wheat gluten, as the whole wheat flour allready is low on gluten, if I don't want it to be too dense...For the calculations, how much of the gluten should I assume is degraded? Maybe 50%?
The thing to observe is the gass retention of the dough, while the flour used for tangzhong up to 40% has been shown to have around 20% detrimental effect on GRD, but whole wheat has different constituents, such as water extractable pentosan, for example, has been shown to play essential role on the volume of the bread. Anyway, I would presumed most of the flour used for tangzhong is practically denatured.
@@NovitaListyani Okay, thank you very much!
Btw., your mochi-dougnuts looks delish! Gonna try them soon. No whole wheat in them, though (unless some wholemeal flour is good - like my pizzas, which taste better when I add about 10% of finely ground Whole Emmer flour to it)
I know you can use milk for tangzhong but can you also use milk for yudane?
You may want to watch our latest video on Tangzhong/Yudane: th-cam.com/video/_mFYeiLzLpo/w-d-xo.html
There is no difference between these two methods of bread making.
5:30
Just want to check normally how long will the fruit yeast water last
Please have a look at this video th-cam.com/video/M5M7KQp5zYw/w-d-xo.html
If the mixture getting transparent during stirring on the stove, is it an indication of overheating/overcooked?
I don't think so, if it's overcooked it'll be getting thicker.
If I use poolish, biga or any other pre ferments and tangzhon do I have to count the liquids and flour of the pre ferment for transforming my recipe to tangzhong?
Yes you do
@@NovitaListyani Thank you so much 🫶
@@NovitaListyani Im using the method from King Arthur web site. They suggest transforming your recipe 75% hidration. So you add or maybe remove liquid from your recipes. I tried today but I just got a sticky dough. Do I have to 75% hydration suggested of King Arthur or just use 1:5 ratio no matter hydration percentages of your recipe??
To save you precious time and unnecessary waste of ingredients, I would like to suggest you to watch our latest video on Tangzhong/Yudane th-cam.com/video/_mFYeiLzLpo/w-d-xo.html Now, to answer your question: there's absolutely no need to convert to 75% hydration, full explanation is a bit long, it can be found toward the end of our new video, also in the new video we explain that there's no need for 1:5 ratio, use simply 1:2 with boiling water.
@@NovitaListyani ❤Thanks
Have you experimented with making tangzhong in the microwave; if so, what was the result?
King Arthur Flour's website states that you can make tangzhong i na microwave by microwaving it in 20 sec intervals until thick and cooling it the same.
What is the percentage of flour taken for making yodane (which is not cooked) from the total percentage of flour?
If I was crazy enough to try this with a quick bread that calls for 260 flour and 113 g butter (butter at ~17% water), to get to a 20% tangzhong, would that work out to 50 g flour + 113 butter + 80 g water at 65 C?
That should be the 1:2 ratio, use ~20% of total flour, while adding the least amount of liquid to the recipe.
I thought tangzhong originated in China. China has been using tangzhong method in making noodles not bread.
saya ada meihat donat susu di malaysia .... adonannya sangat lembek.... apakah kira2 menggunakan metode tangzhong atau yudane ... berikut link penampakan adonan donatnya .... mohon di jawab .... saya sangat ingin membuat donat seperti itu 😊th-cam.com/video/MHfgUr7EpWU/w-d-xo.html
Maaf, telat menjawab, comment Anda nyangkut di "held for review" karena ada link. Tentu bisa saja kita pakai tangzhong/yudane untuk buat donat, bisa coba nonton di sini: th-cam.com/video/rvodYO_nuao/w-d-xo.html
Satu hal lagi, ini video lama, kita sudah tidak memakai cara buat tangzhong seperti di video ini. Pada intinya tangzhong dan yudane tidak ada bedanya: th-cam.com/video/_mFYeiLzLpo/w-d-xo.html
Wow! I love the way you went about this. Starting with the history of the terms used and the fact that the Chinese and Japanese characters were exactly the same was a delightful epiphany for me . Including the European “scalding“ also enlightened me. You have a new subscriber here. Loved it. 🕊✌️😁👍🕊
Thanks! Glad you like it 😀
8:50
You found yourself another subscriber!! Amazing explanation ❤️ you’ve helped me so much!! thankyou so much eeee ternyata orang Indonesiaa🥰 salam kenal dari Lombok kak!!
When you say 5:1 water to flour ratio, is that by weight or by volume, or doesn't it matter? When I cook, I now tend to use a scale for everything.
Wow thanks for this videos. Very well researched and informed. Definitely going to increase my success in making bread haha
Thanks 🙏 we have a new video on Tangzhong/Yudane with the latest information on this method, do check it out.
Thank you for all the work that went into testing this and finding the best way for us to do this! I enjoyed listening to you.
I first learned about Tang zhong years ago through Christine’s recipes. I lived in Hong Kong at the time. Soft bread and Hokkaido milk bread are very popular there. Now I am researching the tang zhong method again to see if it will help me make fluffy gluten free bread for my little girl. It’s so lovely to have these resources available. Thank you again.
Glad you enjoyed it but this is an old video of ours. You may want to check out some of these new videos:
th-cam.com/video/DjQ7EtvzK_w/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/hd-vdRnb-JI/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/Vpcmunba9wA/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/Pf5HSzBK6zo/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/qdOHmdTTs24/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/_mFYeiLzLpo/w-d-xo.html
Very useful explanation. Thank you!
Thank you too 🙏
I love your very brainy and scholar explanation of this method of bread making. Question:
will you ever walk us through the recipe?
There are people like me in your channel that would love to benefit from this technique but are not professional bakers, so we don’t really know how to apply or incorporate this method into a recipe. ❤😢. Please consider.
On another of your videos you state that Yudane needs to be refrigerated overnight so it can retrograde. Here you state it can be used immediately. Which is best?
This video was made on October 8, 2021. Ever since, we have made many new videos on Tangzhong/Yudane with more up-to-date information, including the one you may have watched before you watched this old video. You may want to watch our latest video on Tangzhong/Yudane: th-cam.com/video/DjQ7EtvzK_w/w-d-xo.html
Thanks.
Very well explained! Thanks! nice voice, by the way!
Mantap sekali penjelasanya 👍. Mau tanya dikit dong, kalau yudane bisa disimpan berapa lama ya kak di dalam kulkas? Sama kalau untuk donat lebih bagus pake metode yudane atau tanzhong ya kak?
Biasanya saya masukkan ke lemari es, sampai seminggu masih aman. Kalau rasa dua-duanya sama saja
@@NovitaListyani ke lemari es tu ke bagian freezernya kak? Jadi dibekuin gitu?
Tidak perlu di freezer, di rak lemari es cukup
@@NovitaListyani baik, makasih banyak ilmunya kak
Excellent!
Glad you liked it!
Just so everybody knows about this method, I’ve tried it many times with baguettes and it does not work. It makes the bread very soft and takes long to go stale , but in a baguette, you need that really crunchy outside, and I’ve never been able to get a decent crunch that last any amount of time using this method. I get much better results and a much better crumb when I only use poolish .
me impresiona leer que alguien use esto para el baguette, honestamente conociendo las bases de los panes enriquecidos y el baguette, me sorprende que siquiera lo intentaras.
Idk why anybody would use this for baguettes
Thankyou so much . Very informative
Thank you too 🙏