Im not looking forward to using the metric system but Ive heard it is easier to use and is more practical. Thanks for the laugh :) Someday I hope to turbo an e36. Thumbs up!
I love these videos. It's interesting to watch, many things I didn't realise and of course thanks for the subs! I can see huge amount of labour to put them in! But you need to change that camera, though. Its problems with focus gives my eyes pain :D I'll look forward to see more videos!
Thanks! Yes i know there is focus problem. The Canon DSLR's suck in focusing. I have now installed magic lantern on my camera to get focus peaking for manual focusing. But still i need to invest for bigger and sharper display because it's hard to use manual focus on the small and low res screen. I'm probably going to buy on of these: th-cam.com/video/Ta-9zY23KaE/w-d-xo.html
Awesome work Pazi, as always! I love your entire channel. I also have a question though, I wanted to turbo a m50b25 non vanos with a Megasquirt. I would do a completely stock rebuild and run .5 bar of boost. Any thoughts? spaced head gasket, anything you think that's best? I'm in the US so I will have an iron block. Thanks!
Jackson Allen It will handle that level of boost in stock form. Maybe thicker headgasket if you can source one (i wouldn't use those spacers). The kdfi is just plug and play. You only need to run signal wire from wideband controller or wire in the sensor to kdfi.
when you say you wouldn't use those spacers what do you mean? A spaced metal head gasket? Then you say you say run a thicker gasket if I can, i'm a little lost. Realistically I want to run 10-12 psi. I will probably get that ecu you are talking about now too.
I've been told to just run a quality regular head gasket with arp studs and run lower boost. In comparison to a spaced head gasket and more boost for the same power. Is this thought correct?
Knock/detonation is your number one enemy when running with stock pistons, because those will break immediately when the engine knocks. In our case it's solved by using e85. As you probably know, to reduce the possibility for knocking you can lower the compression ratio. But the only good way to do this is to make dome in middle of the piston. You wan't to have the pistons sides still very close to the head (google s52 pistons for example, or see the pistons in video). Because if the pistons sides get too far away from the head that will increase the chances of the engine knocking. This is the reason I don't recommend using those copper spacers etc. to lower the cp. The compression ratio will go lower indeed but still the engine will be prone to knock because the piston sides are too far away from the head. So the proper way to lower the cp is to get domed pistons (and forged ones which can withstand some knocking/detonation. But in the other hand with modern electronic control units like megasquirt are so accurate that you can do mild turbo engine even with high compression ratio but good tune is mandatory to keep the engine alive. And the end result will be that you will probaply achieve the same power with stock compression ratio and lower boost than with lower cp and higher boost. Because the lower cp engine will still knock easily because of that spacer in head gasket. But the engine with higher compression ratio will be more responsive off boost and stresses the engine bit because of lower boost . But to your answer. Best is to keep the stock headgasket and stock bolts for such mild turbo setup. I would recommend to swap new head gasket because the old ones get quite "crusty" during the years. And while you change that I would recommend to get little bit thicker one to lower the cp just a little bit (~0,5 mm thicker). Probably something that is meant for head which is machined too much. And what comes to the arp head bolts those are really needed only if you go higher than 1,5 bar of boost. Up to 1 bar stock bolts with stock head gasket will hold just fine. Going to higher boost the stock head gasket starts to be problem but guys have in finland tested that stock headbolts will hold to somewhere about 1,5 bar of boost.
Hey, wanted to ask what was the final torque on ARP main studs? I saw that you measured clearances with stock bolt, which is wrong. If you use ARP studs, you should always measure clearances with ARP studs. And anything more than 70Nm on main studs, you will distort the main caps and a line honing is a must.. Ask me how i know :D
Õuna Puu Those are now at 80 Nm as said in ARP instructions but it felt so much that I might back those up and use something like 60-70 Nm. What broblems did you have?
ARP instructions are garbage.. Ask around, PPF and other people with expierence can tell you to not go over 70Nm. If you go above 70Nm the main cap bores are not perfectly round, more like oval as its too much for the cap. If i were you, i would get an accurate gauge and measure the main bore for roundness. And make sure to check clearances with ARP studs!! 3-5/100mm is the proper clearance for mains.
Õuna Puu I will check that. The engine is still in that condition so it's easy. Or it even sounds like I might revert back to stock bolts and discard the ARP garbage :D I'm not a fan of those and I would rather use stock bolts as long as possible.
If the caps are round and clearances are OK, just use 65-70Nm and you will be fine. Stock bolts are fine too, if you dont go crazy with the power. I saw that you used cooperring too, on previous builds, have you ever heard problems with them sweating the coolant outside of the block?
Õuna Puu ok thanks for the info. We have never had problems with the cooperring headgaskets and I don't recall anyone else in Finland having problems. But few nava linea head gaskets have been leaking which have the same construction.
@@pazi88 ok so rods and pistons max 500nm. I might as well tear it down and do the rods and pistons with the help of yt vids. Lots of great conent man,keep on bmw.
@@Theoriginalmichaelmiachel suprasport.nl/Suprasport-Suprasport-M50-engine-girdle-SS-BMWM50-GIRDLE?language=en but I also have dfx here, if you want to lazercut one cheaper: drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B2EFGtMvFkj-ZDBnREFraHRDZ28
is it possible to make direct injection in this engines , im thining to rebuild m52b25 engine to copy of s55 engine with water injection, is m52 blocks can be bored to 86mm for 400+ hp turbo build with b30 crankshaft, people in here says m52 blocks cant be bored , only m50 s can . but in forums people talking about how much bore it can take.
Külüğ Tunga Direct injection requires completely different head than traditional injection so it can't be done. Or at least without major fab work :D Boring the blocks depends where you live. In US the m52 and m50 use basic cast iron block that csn be bored without problem. But then in EU the m52 has aluminium block that can't be bored. Or if you bore it, you have to add steel sleeves to it. For turbo use I wouldn't bore past 85mm. the surface area between bores becomes very tiny with 86 or 87mm bore and the gasket is eadily damaged there. With 87mm bore engines it's normal that the head gasket fails between bores even in normal N/A use.
pazi88 thank you for Your answer , so rebuilding an alleminum m52 block with steel sleeves will work fine with m54 crank rod piston set water injection and turbo build, right? My Engine block probably needs rebuild because it burns 1-2 liter oil per 1000 km .
Aye! moves the crank...AYE!....Moves crank again aye! Moves crank one last time...AYE!(altogether) This had me laughing hard when the crew was moving the crank and it kept hitting the girdle. 43:07 ;)
Greetings from Latvija. I wanted to ask,what cylindre/piston gap you hawe? I,m building m50b25 turbo, now bottom, and wondering if i need to hone block to 84mm+ ? using stock m50b25 pistons going for pump gas
Honing block doesn't really make the cylinder bigger. Mostly it just creates texture to the cylinder well to make the oil stick it. Boring the cylinders will make those bigger. But no you don't need to worry about piston clearances with stock pistons. Just make sure that the ring gap is big enough and hone the block when using new piston rings.
what ring gaps You suggest? at some forums and engine build specs I read that ring gaps for turbo application needs to be bigger than stock n/a vesrion but You know.. a lot of ''let the internet tune my car'' ir Bull Shit.. :D
Pazi i have a huge question for you. I bought a 328i m52 and i plane to built a N/A built or after the built engine add a supercharger. No money in mind. I have in my mind m3 pistons and resurface the engine for darton larger bore or you think straight high comp 2.8 pistons will do the job better?
Bigger displacement is always best upgrade for N/A engine. Combined with higher compression ratio and much more agressive cams than stock, it will give big hp bump.
@@pazi88 thank you for the words. The stock m52 rods can take a m3 pistons or you need to change all the internals and get a larger bore for it? Is 2mm too mutch for re sleeve a m52 engine?
Hi PaziDo you think that Griddle could be modified to use with the m54b30 crank in the m50 ? And how are the maxspeeding rods holding ? I'm also planning to run them up to 500 rwhp lol Thanks
hi Pazi88, i would like to know wich head is better for a turbo, the m50v or the m52 ? mine is the m50v, but is the m52 better for more power ? or it's the same stuff. thank you very much
Nyt on kyllä pakko kysyä (vaikka onkin videosta offtopic) kun noista koneista tiedät senverta että kuinkas paljon m50b25nv orkkismännät kestää? On muuten todella hyviä videoita! jatkakees samaan malliin:)
TheNaikouu Kiitoksia. Onkai niillä jotain 500hepan tehoilla ajettu 98:lla. Mut kesto riippuu puhtaasti säädöistä. Bensalla ei kärsi antaa nakuttaa ollenkaan, koska muuten on männänrengas välit heti murusina.
Did you weigh or measure the rod clearances ? I'm looking at those max speeding rods but I am scared they will be bad quality. Please let us know how they perform! Thanks for subtitles.
No. We don't have accurate enough scale. But my friend measured his rods for VW 1.8T engine and those were within few grams. Which is better than stock rods. And those rods are currently holding fine after abuse. In our connecting rods the clearances were perfect so I would say those are really good quality for the price.
Some other thoughts: Have you ever considered one of those Chinese GTX35 turbos with dual ball bearings you can get online for about 500€? I think that would perfectly if you plan upgrading your turbo :)
What is the thickness of your head Gasket? I'm doing the same build and want to achieve a compression ratio of 9:5:1 with the same internals as listed in your description.
No. The crankshaft is balanced by itself from the factory and the connecting rods etc. should be same weight. So no need to balance unless you want to be really pedant.
how well do you think the girdle will hold up compared to the i.e girdle? this one doesn't extend past the oil pump like the i.e kit.. hmm. how is the motor preforming?
terrance deblshearer Type that goes between oil pan and block is not very good in e30 because clearances are so tight. And I think that one we got is still better than nothing.
Did you have clearance problems with the girdle because you fitted an M52B28 crank? I assume that the girdle was made to fit an M50 engine and therefore an M50B25 crank? I only ask as I intend to do the very same thing and want to know if it will need to be slightly modified! Thanks, great videos guys and great work!
Don't know :D In this case the stock hydraulic lifters are the thing that limits the rpm to somewhere about 7500 rpm. Those H-beam connecting rods are bit overkill for N/A engine. You would like to reduce the rotating mass not increase it in N/A engine. Some light I-beam connecting rods would be better.
You probably already know, but Nisse Jarnet has run the stock M52/M54 33mm hydraulic lifters up to 8000RPM with PPF Z2 cams and supertech springs for a 3+ years now. I don't know why people say they're not good past 7000-7500, but they seem to be fine
Thecharger I have seen m50 non-vanos engines where the valves have hit the piston after the engine did rev past 7500. But in the m50nv engine the valves and lifters are much heavier than in m52 engine. So those probaply can handle much higher rpm. And that is also one of the reasons I prefer m52.
Are these Chinese connecting rods you used here lighter than factory BMW connecting rods, and you said you were using m52 wisco pistons are these connecting rods specific to m52 pistons. Currently running all engine m52 with porter exhaust housing and custom intake with the same arp studs in my e36 track built car wanting to know if these suffice or if I should blow my paycheck on stronger connection rods thank guys much appreciated. ~ question coming from united states love the videos and love hearing the banter and reading it in subtitles. keep it up, will there be a season 3??
I think those are bit heavier. But we didn't measure the weights. The connecting rods are from m52b28 but we have wiseco 8.8 CP pistons for m50b25. Those combined with m52b28 crank give us 9.5 compression with 2.8l displacement. If your engine is N/A then you can use stock parts no problem.
currently NA wanting to throw speed parts at the bottom end before going to forced induction, I started with bigger injectors, turbo and fuel pump in my Nissan s13 RB25 without building bottom end and it threw a rod out the side of my block. No good, but appreciate the fast response, so far m52 is beyond reliable compared to my other car, besides rebuilding coolant system and vanos to prevent future failure. don't know why it took me so long to getting into euro cars. cheers
Riippuu tosi paljon minkä hintasia osia käyttää, mitä kaikkea vaihtaa ja montako kertaa pitää tehdä kone uusiksi. Joku 1000-15000€ on semmonen sopi väli 😅 Onen ensimmäinen moottori oli jotain 1000€ luokkaa. Tämä oisko 3000-4000€ 🤔
hi guys can you help me i have a problem with a project similar to yours. in practice my arp bolts on my m50 are short if I put the reinforcement plate on it. what arp bolts did you use?
Yes original bore. Wiseco offers pistons in STD size, and then 84.5 and 85 mm. You only need to go oversize if your bores have too much wear or some other problems that need boring to oversize (like deep scratches). Normally in m5x engines the bores are in very good shape even in high mileage engines and the honing pattern is still clearly visible so in that case there is no need to go oversize.
@@pazi88 Thanks A LOT my friends!! 👍 but i have the same issues with the other about your video that is we need the subtitles LOL 🤣 ,anyway great great video by the way, warm regards from Indonesia 🙏😁 ❤️
why on e85 running when u can set the ratio in the building for normal gas .. ? and normaly when u have the right bcylinder bore the piston rings dont have to sidegrinded ...never seen this before that some body work so on piston rings
taq2142tv Not 100% sure what you mean but we run e85 because you can get lot more power out of engine when using that and it's safer in boosted engine because it doesn't knock/detonate. The piston ring gaps has to be grinded because from factory those are made for regular NA street use. But when you add boost to the engine and drive it hard the piston rings get hotter and the gap can close in use which leads to catastrophic engine failure. So we are grinding the piston ring gap wider so that the gap wouldn't close in heavy use.
With the current turbo somewhere around 600-650 hp. But the engine should be fine for even more power just be changing the turbo. If we some reason want more power :D
Ettekö katsonu opetusvideota? :D Miten nää kommentit on postattu 4 päivää sitte? Voiko tänne ostaa jonku pazi88 premium-tukijäsenyyden että näkee videot aiemmin? Ostaisin.
TboHammu Minä katsoin, niin piti neuvoa peteä :D Oon btcf foorumin jäsenpuolelle pistäny linkin kun oon saanu video upattua juutuubiin. Mut laitan julkiseksi vasta kun oon saanu tekstitykset tehtyä. Näiden videoiden katsojista reilusti yli puolet on ulkomaalaisia, niin ei kehtaa julkaista ilman tekstityksiä.
Kyllä ne nyt on oikein :D Sekaannusta aiheutti, kun ARP antaa eri momentit m50 ja m52 veivien pulteille ja noiden veivien mukana tuli vielä kolmet eri momentit. Mut lopulta selvisi että noiden veivien pultit ei ole edes normi ARP:n m5x koneen pulteilla, niin käytettiin veivien lapussa ollutta momenttia. Kunhan ensin saatiin ihmeteltyä mikä tuumakierre noissa pulteissa on, kun yleensä ei tuumakierteisiin tarvi koskea.
Ylemmälle 0,42 ja alemmalle 0,46. Mut noi meidän liuskat menee 0,1 välein, niin laitettiin ylempään 0,4 ja alempaan 0,5. Ei nuo katkokset ole niin millin sadasosien päälle ja virityskäytössä mielellään enemmän rakoa ettei käy niin että menee männänrengasvälit umpeen. Sillon tulee romua...
why are you touching the bearing without gloves, your finger have a greas on them that will make your engine oil not sticking to them and that can cause the bearings to wear faster.
The grease doesn't affect in the bearing surface at all. And even if it would there is high pressure oil film between bearing and the crank so there is no way that those would wear abnormally.
You guys are awesome, thanks for making these videos (and going through the effort of subtitling them)!!
Alexander-Wilhelm Wiens Thanks! Making subtitles for this long video was huge job.
For real. The subtitles are amazing. Thank you.
Great videos! Great subtitleing too! Watching from Sweden :)
Thanks!
Im not looking forward to using the metric system but Ive heard it is easier to use and is more practical. Thanks for the laugh :) Someday I hope to turbo an e36. Thumbs up!
I love these videos. It's interesting to watch, many things I didn't realise and of course thanks for the subs! I can see huge amount of labour to put them in!
But you need to change that camera, though. Its problems with focus gives my eyes pain :D
I'll look forward to see more videos!
Thanks! Yes i know there is focus problem. The Canon DSLR's suck in focusing. I have now installed magic lantern on my camera to get focus peaking for manual focusing. But still i need to invest for bigger and sharper display because it's hard to use manual focus on the small and low res screen. I'm probably going to buy on of these: th-cam.com/video/Ta-9zY23KaE/w-d-xo.html
@34:35 one of the bearings is not getting oiled, so get the oil pressure up real good, just mentioning :)
when cracking the new conrods you should make sure the end cap goes back the way it was snapped off btw
Yeah we know. The rod caps have numbering so there is no way of mixing those.
pazi88 aye i geussed it would have been something like that and i would have thought you guys would know anyway. keep up the good work
Sup guys, how's the project going? Are you relasing a video any time soon? I enjoy this series so much thank you for posting this build on youtube. :)
Next part should be out soon. I will finish editing it this week but the subtitles will take some extra time before I can publish it.
Like My Summer Car with BMW engine
on kyllä hieno peli :)
awesome video. thanks for showing how the pistons move at the end. I always thought the firing order was 1-5-3-6-2-4 but it looks different??
Thanks and that is the correct firing order for m5x engines.
Did you use m50b25 non vanos pistons? I have 8.8:1 wiseco as well. Didn't think 2.8 crank would work
The end was just like LOL 😂
Awesome work Pazi, as always! I love your entire channel.
I also have a question though, I wanted to turbo a m50b25 non vanos with a Megasquirt. I would do a completely stock rebuild and run .5 bar of boost. Any thoughts? spaced head gasket, anything you think that's best? I'm in the US so I will have an iron block. Thanks!
Jackson Allen It will handle that level of boost in stock form. Maybe thicker headgasket if you can source one (i wouldn't use those spacers). The kdfi is just plug and play. You only need to run signal wire from wideband controller or wire in the sensor to kdfi.
when you say you wouldn't use those spacers what do you mean? A spaced metal head gasket? Then you say you say run a thicker gasket if I can, i'm a little lost. Realistically I want to run 10-12 psi. I will probably get that ecu you are talking about now too.
I've been told to just run a quality regular head gasket with arp studs and run lower boost. In comparison to a spaced head gasket and more boost for the same power. Is this thought correct?
Jackson Allen ok I will later write you bit longer answer :D
Knock/detonation is your number one enemy when running with stock pistons, because those will break immediately when the engine knocks. In our case it's solved by using e85. As you probably know, to reduce the possibility for knocking you can lower the compression ratio. But the only good way to do this is to make dome in middle of the piston. You wan't to have the pistons sides still very close to the head (google s52 pistons for example, or see the pistons in video). Because if the pistons sides get too far away from the head that will increase the chances of the engine knocking. This is the reason I don't recommend using those copper spacers etc. to lower the cp. The compression ratio will go lower indeed but still the engine will be prone to knock because the piston sides are too far away from the head. So the proper way to lower the cp is to get domed pistons (and forged ones which can withstand some knocking/detonation. But in the other hand with modern electronic control units like megasquirt are so accurate that you can do mild turbo engine even with high compression ratio but good tune is mandatory to keep the engine alive. And the end result will be that you will probaply achieve the same power with stock compression ratio and lower boost than with lower cp and higher boost. Because the lower cp engine will still knock easily because of that spacer in head gasket. But the engine with higher compression ratio will be more responsive off boost and stresses the engine bit because of lower boost .
But to your answer. Best is to keep the stock headgasket and stock bolts for such mild turbo setup. I would recommend to swap new head gasket because the old ones get quite "crusty" during the years. And while you change that I would recommend to get little bit thicker one to lower the cp just a little bit (~0,5 mm thicker). Probably something that is meant for head which is machined too much. And what comes to the arp head bolts those are really needed only if you go higher than 1,5 bar of boost. Up to 1 bar stock bolts with stock head gasket will hold just fine. Going to higher boost the stock head gasket starts to be problem but guys have in finland tested that stock headbolts will hold to somewhere about 1,5 bar of boost.
Hey, wanted to ask what was the final torque on ARP main studs? I saw that you measured clearances with stock bolt, which is wrong. If you use ARP studs, you should always measure clearances with ARP studs. And anything more than 70Nm on main studs, you will distort the main caps and a line honing is a must.. Ask me how i know :D
Õuna Puu Those are now at 80 Nm as said in ARP instructions
but it felt so much that I might back those up and use something like 60-70 Nm. What broblems did you have?
ARP instructions are garbage.. Ask around, PPF and other people with expierence can tell you to not go over 70Nm.
If you go above 70Nm the main cap bores are not perfectly round, more like oval as its too much for the cap.
If i were you, i would get an accurate gauge and measure the main bore for roundness. And make sure to check clearances with ARP studs!! 3-5/100mm is the proper clearance for mains.
Õuna Puu I will check that. The engine is still in that condition so it's easy. Or it even sounds like I might revert back to stock bolts and discard the ARP garbage :D I'm not a fan of those and I would rather use stock bolts as long as possible.
If the caps are round and clearances are OK, just use 65-70Nm and you will be fine. Stock bolts are fine too, if you dont go crazy with the power.
I saw that you used cooperring too, on previous builds, have you ever heard problems with them sweating the coolant outside of the block?
Õuna Puu ok thanks for the info. We have never had problems with the cooperring headgaskets and I don't recall anyone else in Finland having problems. But few nava linea head gaskets have been leaking which have the same construction.
Nice fresh parts🤗
Can stock internals on a m52b28 with cooperring gasket,hold up 1.2bar with a good map?
Yes. If you keep torque below 500Nm
@@pazi88 ok so rods and pistons max 500nm. I might as well tear it down and do the rods and pistons with the help of yt vids. Lots of great conent man,keep on bmw.
Great video, what is the plate that bolts down with the main caps? Some kind of reinforcement plate?
It's engine girdle which is meant to reinforce the block.
@@pazi88 who makes it!?
What brand?
@@Theoriginalmichaelmiachel suprasport.nl/Suprasport-Suprasport-M50-engine-girdle-SS-BMWM50-GIRDLE?language=en but I also have dfx here, if you want to lazercut one cheaper: drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B2EFGtMvFkj-ZDBnREFraHRDZ28
Hello!
what are you using for head gasket? Oring?
My M52 with steel gasket blow off after 0.8bar of boost.
Tks!
Athena cooperring headgasket.
have the rods been holding up good?
No problem in those.
@@pazi88 very nice!
Hi there , What’s the flywheel and what kind of clutch setup did you use ?
Hi Pazi88, the crankshaft you used is from a 2.8 m52? And can I use the crank of my m50 engine?
what ARP bolts did you use for the crankshaft with the reinforcement plate? How many mm is the Athena head gasket you used?
Those were bolts thst came with the girdle. Don't have the number. 2mm athena.
@@pazi88 So do you remember where you bought this crankshaft stiffener kit with ARP bolts already included?
What is your opinion on the Chinese H-beam rods? Just balance them and good to use?
The ones that I have come across have been very good quality. No need for balancing those.
Have you used them with success before? What brand? Thank you!! :^)
is it possible to make direct injection in this engines , im thining to rebuild m52b25 engine to copy of s55 engine with water injection, is m52 blocks can be bored to 86mm for 400+ hp turbo build with b30 crankshaft, people in here says m52 blocks cant be bored , only m50 s can . but in forums people talking about how much bore it can take.
Külüğ Tunga Direct injection requires completely different head than traditional injection so it can't be done. Or at least without major fab work :D Boring the blocks depends where you live. In US the m52 and m50 use basic cast iron block that csn be bored without problem. But then in EU the m52 has aluminium block that can't be bored. Or if you bore it, you have to add steel sleeves to it. For turbo use I wouldn't bore past 85mm. the surface area between bores becomes very tiny with 86 or 87mm bore and the gasket is eadily damaged there. With 87mm bore engines it's normal that the head gasket fails between bores even in normal N/A use.
pazi88 thank you for Your answer , so rebuilding an alleminum m52 block with steel sleeves will work fine with m54 crank rod piston set water injection and turbo build, right? My Engine block probably needs rebuild because it burns 1-2 liter oil per 1000 km .
yes it will work fine.
Mistä nuo männät ja tuo girddle oli tilattu?
Jos muistat vielä
Aye! moves the crank...AYE!....Moves crank again aye! Moves crank one last time...AYE!(altogether) This had me laughing hard when the crew was moving the crank and it kept hitting the girdle. 43:07 ;)
Greetings from Latvija.
I wanted to ask,what cylindre/piston gap you hawe?
I,m building m50b25 turbo, now bottom, and wondering if i need to hone block to 84mm+ ?
using stock m50b25 pistons
going for pump gas
Honing block doesn't really make the cylinder bigger. Mostly it just creates texture to the cylinder well to make the oil stick it. Boring the cylinders will make those bigger. But no you don't need to worry about piston clearances with stock pistons. Just make sure that the ring gap is big enough and hone the block when using new piston rings.
what ring gaps You suggest?
at some forums and engine build specs I read that ring gaps for turbo application needs to be bigger than stock n/a vesrion
but You know.. a lot of ''let the internet tune my car'' ir Bull Shit.. :D
Pazi i have a huge question for you. I bought a 328i m52 and i plane to built a N/A built or after the built engine add a supercharger. No money in mind. I have in my mind m3 pistons and resurface the engine for darton larger bore or you think straight high comp 2.8 pistons will do the job better?
Bigger displacement is always best upgrade for N/A engine. Combined with higher compression ratio and much more agressive cams than stock, it will give big hp bump.
@@pazi88 thank you for the words. The stock m52 rods can take a m3 pistons or you need to change all the internals and get a larger bore for it? Is 2mm too mutch for re sleeve a m52 engine?
Hi PaziDo you think that Griddle could be modified to use with the m54b30 crank in the m50 ? And how are the maxspeeding rods holding ? I'm also planning to run them up to 500 rwhp lol Thanks
Yeas it should fit if you grind more stuff from it than we did. And the maxspeeding rods are holding fine.
Siis noi H-profiili kanget on tehty Kiinassa? Vai ymmärsinkö oikein? 🤔
hi Pazi88, i would like to know wich head is better for a turbo, the m50v or the m52 ? mine is the m50v, but is the m52 better for more power ? or it's the same stuff. thank you very much
It's more or less all the same. Doesn't really make any difference.
@@pazi88 thanks a lot ☺️
Nyt on kyllä pakko kysyä (vaikka onkin videosta offtopic) kun noista koneista tiedät senverta että kuinkas paljon m50b25nv orkkismännät kestää? On muuten todella hyviä videoita! jatkakees samaan malliin:)
TheNaikouu Kiitoksia. Onkai niillä jotain 500hepan tehoilla ajettu 98:lla. Mut kesto riippuu puhtaasti säädöistä. Bensalla ei kärsi antaa nakuttaa ollenkaan, koska muuten on männänrengas välit heti murusina.
conrods maxspeeding Can receive up to 1000hp?
No idea 😅
Did you weigh or measure the rod clearances ? I'm looking at those max speeding rods but I am scared they will be bad quality. Please let us know how they perform! Thanks for subtitles.
No. We don't have accurate enough scale. But my friend measured his rods for VW 1.8T engine and those were within few grams. Which is better than stock rods. And those rods are currently holding fine after abuse. In our connecting rods the clearances were perfect so I would say those are really good quality for the price.
Meneekö tuo m50b25 rautalohko suoraan m52b28 osien kanssa yhteen kun niissä on eri isku vai joutuuko hommaamaan lyhyempiä veivejä?
Menee suoraan.
ja on kyllä hyviä videoitaki
Teemu Hietakangas Kiitoksia kiitoksia.
Magic trick:
84 * 0.005 = 0.42
:D
Max Lindner Yeah. I afterwards realised that all that coverting between units was useless :D
Some other thoughts:
Have you ever considered one of those Chinese GTX35 turbos with dual ball bearings you can get online for about 500€? I think that would perfectly if you plan upgrading your turbo :)
That is one hell of a deal!
Max Lindner That starts to be quite expensive turbo to be chinese. You can get basically "new" refurbished turbos from real brands for that price.
eXviLs - エックスリルス86 Many people do that in Finland. Some big holset turbos that they use even say Scania in the compressor housing :D
What is the thickness of your head Gasket? I'm doing the same build and want to achieve a compression ratio of 9:5:1 with the same internals as listed in your description.
It's 2mm uncompressed.
Käykö tuo m52b28 kampura suoraan m50 lohkoon?
Satans Datsun Juu käy. Senkun puottaa paikalleen. Toki männät ja kiertokanget pitää olla kans.
Did you guys end up balancing the crankshaft with the new pistons and connecting rods? Or is it all the same weight
No. The crankshaft is balanced by itself from the factory and the connecting rods etc. should be same weight. So no need to balance unless you want to be really pedant.
@@pazi88 thank you!
how well do you think the girdle will hold up compared to the i.e girdle? this one doesn't extend past the oil pump like the i.e kit.. hmm. how is the motor preforming?
terrance deblshearer Type that goes between oil pan and block is not very good in e30 because clearances are so tight. And I think that one we got is still better than nothing.
terrance deblshearer And the engine is still in the same state as it was in the end of the video. Hopefully we continue with it soon.
got ya, yeah man the true i.e girdle extends out a bit more thats why i asked lol
Did you have clearance problems with the girdle because you fitted an M52B28 crank? I assume that the girdle was made to fit an M50 engine and therefore an M50B25 crank? I only ask as I intend to do the very same thing and want to know if it will need to be slightly modified! Thanks, great videos guys and great work!
See 48:25 yes it needed some modification. But it even did hit the b25 crank which was bit strange.
What is the max RPM with those pistons/rods/valves? Will those chinese rods be good in a N/A tuned M30B35?
Don't know :D In this case the stock hydraulic lifters are the thing that limits the rpm to somewhere about 7500 rpm. Those H-beam connecting rods are bit overkill for N/A engine. You would like to reduce the rotating mass not increase it in N/A engine. Some light I-beam connecting rods would be better.
You probably already know, but Nisse Jarnet has run the stock M52/M54 33mm hydraulic lifters up to 8000RPM with PPF Z2 cams and supertech springs for a 3+ years now.
I don't know why people say they're not good past 7000-7500, but they seem to be fine
Thecharger I have seen m50 non-vanos engines where the valves have hit the piston after the engine did rev past 7500. But in the m50nv engine the valves and lifters are much heavier than in m52 engine. So those probaply can handle much higher rpm. And that is also one of the reasons I prefer m52.
Are these Chinese connecting rods you used here lighter than factory BMW connecting rods, and you said you were using m52 wisco pistons are these connecting rods specific to m52 pistons. Currently running all engine m52 with porter exhaust housing and custom intake with the same arp studs in my e36 track built car wanting to know if these suffice or if I should blow my paycheck on stronger connection rods thank guys much appreciated. ~ question coming from united states love the videos and love hearing the banter and reading it in subtitles. keep it up, will there be a season 3??
I think those are bit heavier. But we didn't measure the weights. The connecting rods are from m52b28 but we have wiseco 8.8 CP pistons for m50b25. Those combined with m52b28 crank give us 9.5 compression with 2.8l displacement. If your engine is N/A then you can use stock parts no problem.
currently NA wanting to throw speed parts at the bottom end before going to forced induction, I started with bigger injectors, turbo and fuel pump in my Nissan s13 RB25 without building bottom end and it threw a rod out the side of my block. No good, but appreciate the fast response, so far m52 is beyond reliable compared to my other car, besides rebuilding coolant system and vanos to prevent future failure. don't know why it took me so long to getting into euro cars. cheers
Zach Karr Yeah that's a nissan. People in finland drive their bone stock m50 engines boosted to 500hp without problems :D
What size is the bore on that block? Thanks!
Will this set up work with normal petrol?we don't have e85 over here
Yes when tuned correctly.
Paljonko tulee tuommosille moottorinosille hintaa suurin piirtein?
Riippuu tosi paljon minkä hintasia osia käyttää, mitä kaikkea vaihtaa ja montako kertaa pitää tehdä kone uusiksi. Joku 1000-15000€ on semmonen sopi väli 😅 Onen ensimmäinen moottori oli jotain 1000€ luokkaa. Tämä oisko 3000-4000€ 🤔
Pitääkö tuon korsetin kanssa käyttää kansiarppeja vai passaako ihan runkoarppien kanssa?
Pitää olla pidemmät arpit mitä runkopukeille on tarkotettu. Ei käryä mitkä arpit tuon korsetin mukana tuli.
@@pazi88 joo, tilasin runkoarpit ja sen jälkeen korsetin, niin tuli tämmönen mieleen ja päädyin siks tähä videoon 🤣 mutta runkoarpit jää lyhyeksi?
@@janski7329 joo kyllä
@@pazi88 muistatko yhtään mistä korsetin ostitte? Osais kattoa noi pultit
That engine is going to blow up for sure! lol
Dannimal SDiego Why? It has worked very well.
Yeah... maybe you will be okay but there seemed to be a lot of confusion during the build. Good luck though. I hope it runs well.
BTW... Hitting a connecting rod with a wrench is definitely never good for it.
Dannimal SDiego Just confusion with the US units :D All is ok and triple checked.
Haha.. That's exactly what I was concerned with but sounds you got it handled. Good job!
What is the bore for the piston you are putting in 84mm or 84.5 or 85mm
84mm
hi guys can you help me i have a problem with a project similar to yours. in practice my arp bolts on my m50 are short if I put the reinforcement plate on it. what arp bolts did you use?
Exactly?
Which part / brand were used?
Do you have orignial Bore? Beacuse everybody says that i need to Bore up one oversize to 84.5 If I run wiseco piston?
Yes original bore. Wiseco offers pistons in STD size, and then 84.5 and 85 mm. You only need to go oversize if your bores have too much wear or some other problems that need boring to oversize (like deep scratches). Normally in m5x engines the bores are in very good shape even in high mileage engines and the honing pattern is still clearly visible so in that case there is no need to go oversize.
Thats good. Then i han jeep The original Bore on My m50b25.
Thx for The answer!!
Good Job !
For what is that metal plate at the end ?
Thanks!
It's called a girdle, it hads rigidity to the bottom of the block. some engines come with one from factory
I want one for M50 turbo so badly but need more details
Where you get the standard torsion for fastening every single bolt??
www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/
@@pazi88 Thanks A LOT my friends!! 👍 but i have the same issues with the other about your video that is we need the subtitles LOL 🤣 ,anyway great great video by the way, warm regards from Indonesia 🙏😁 ❤️
@@alifkhanfatihkara Just check the youtube settings. Thebsubtitles are there.
@@pazi88 Love it my friend!
Did you do any machining on the block?
It was just honed with cheapo diy tools.
hey pazi! are you guys using the 38.20 comp height pistons?
No. These are the ones with 32.70 compression height. (kit part. number KE118M84) The 38.20 is way too much for 2,8 liter crank.
pazi88 ok i see. i Was thinking maybe you were running 130 rods to bring the cp down
No. The connecting rod angle would be horrible with such short rods.
great info! What is the gasket thickness needed? what thickness are you using?
can you also please tell me if you use ARP 201-5000 main bolts or other for the girdle! thanks!!
My m52b28 doesnt have that crank plate. Im building mine now and i have no idea what it is
It does strenghten the block. These engines don't have it from factory.
@@pazi88 i definitely need one of those. Do you know where i can get one? Btw thanks in advance for all the knowledge you provide us 😁
why on e85 running when u can set the ratio in the building for normal gas .. ? and normaly when u have the right bcylinder bore the piston rings dont have to sidegrinded ...never seen this before that some body work so on piston rings
taq2142tv Not 100% sure what you mean but we run e85 because you can get lot more power out of engine when using that and it's safer in boosted engine because it doesn't knock/detonate. The piston ring gaps has to be grinded because from factory those are made for regular NA street use. But when you add boost to the engine and drive it hard the piston rings get hotter and the gap can close in use which leads to catastrophic engine failure. So we are grinding the piston ring gap wider so that the gap wouldn't close in heavy use.
And also in Finland the e85 is lot cheaper than regular gas so even in stock engines is cheaper to drive using e85.
Hello is there any way possible I can have the part number for the rod bearings and main bearings you used ? Plzzzzz
Main bearings: Glyco H023/7. Rod bearings: Glyco 71-3419/6
How much hp and nm i can get from m52b28 with m54b30 intake cam
Pistons con rods
Cran
What brand of girdle are you guys using?
This: suprasport.nl/Suprasport-Suprasport-M50-engine-girdle-SS-BMWM50-GIRDLE
Hei. Onko h-profiilien asennus suunnalla väliä?
zoninable Ei oo väliä.
This m50b25 vanos wiseco pistons works on m52b28?
From what I've read it works fine but B25 pistons have higher crowns than the B28 that's why the CR is increased.
Hello! How big is the piston ring gap?
Don't remember. But it's on the video if you watch it with subtitles.
What bore cutting gasket?
85mm if I remember correctly.
How many horsepower did you make?
Almost 700
Pitää kyllä jätkille antaa propsit videon pituudesta!
Kiitoksia. Tein tälläkertaa normaalia pidemmän, mut toivottavasti ei tullu liian pitkä ja tylsä...
En oo kyllä kertaakaan nähny liian pitkää autonrakennus videoo :D Jatkakkee vuan sammaan malliin!
No mepä jatketaan :D
love your videos where are you from friend
Thanks! I'm from Finland.
pazi88 I’m building a m54 one of the head studs was stripped so your video was right on time. I plan on doing M52tu oil rings . Keep up the great work
What is the point of the grill in the sump?
It's meant to reinforce the block.
Was the block not honed or decked?
Adrian Cortez It was honed. Deck was already straight.
pazi88 awesome thanks for the quick response. I recently bought an e34 525i. I'm looking forward to turbocharging it as well:D
good
Did u finish this motor yet?
Adrian Labrie No. It's still in same shape. We should continue with it soon.
34:30 mitä noi tikut olimitä laitoit tohon?
Mikki Hintikka Plastigaugea välysten mittaamiseen.
pazi88 kiitos!!!
What block girdle?
This: suprasport.nl/Suprasport-Suprasport-M50-engine-girdle-SS-BMWM50-GIRDLE?language=en
how much hp are you gonna run with this setup?
With the current turbo somewhere around 600-650 hp. But the engine should be fine for even more power just be changing the turbo. If we some reason want more power :D
Tuosta männän tappien laitosta tulee mieleen tämä kohta
th-cam.com/video/R-C6dMW9nPo/w-d-xo.htmlm17s
Joo tiiän. Sille mekin naurettiin :D Videolta toki puuttuu varmaan 20min ähellystä kun ihmeteltiin miten ne saa paikalleen :D
Ettekö katsonu opetusvideota? :D Miten nää kommentit on postattu 4 päivää sitte? Voiko tänne ostaa jonku pazi88 premium-tukijäsenyyden että näkee videot aiemmin? Ostaisin.
TboHammu Minä katsoin, niin piti neuvoa peteä :D Oon btcf foorumin jäsenpuolelle pistäny linkin kun oon saanu video upattua juutuubiin. Mut laitan julkiseksi vasta kun oon saanu tekstitykset tehtyä. Näiden videoiden katsojista reilusti yli puolet on ulkomaalaisia, niin ei kehtaa julkaista ilman tekstityksiä.
sound balance is awful but video is good!
"Olihan tällä joku järjestys?" "Eei niillä oo"
Mutta 31:07 :D
you need videolight please
yeah. But I have lot more important thing to buy first like new engine parts :D
Ja seuraavaksi arvomme momentit kiertokangen pulteille... :D Kuhan nyt ei sattus mitää :D
Kyllä ne nyt on oikein :D Sekaannusta aiheutti, kun ARP antaa eri momentit m50 ja m52 veivien pulteille ja noiden veivien mukana tuli vielä kolmet eri momentit. Mut lopulta selvisi että noiden veivien pultit ei ole edes normi ARP:n m5x koneen pulteilla, niin käytettiin veivien lapussa ollutta momenttia. Kunhan ensin saatiin ihmeteltyä mikä tuumakierre noissa pulteissa on, kun yleensä ei tuumakierteisiin tarvi koskea.
pazi88 no hyvä :D huvitti vaan koko tilanne :D
didyliduu Jep siksipä minä sen laitoin tähän videolle :D
Marko Nuutinen Kato videon kuvaus.
No Minäpä katsoin sen jo ennen kuin laitoin kysymyksen. Eikä sitä löytynyt vieläkään sieltä... :-)
Mä en ikinä kato näitä, kuuntelen vaan tekemisen meininkiä taustalta xD
I want to do this to my bimmer
Good Videos. Question:
would it not be easy to speak English rather than going to all of the trouble to add the English subtitles ?
Yes but there isn't much car related videos in Finnish in youtube or even anywhere else so that's why i'm speaking in Finnish.
Your videos are very good and you deserve more viewers, so ..
I think you will get for more views with English, thank you.
pazi88 as long as you keep the english subs :)
Ku on nopeet suojalasit, tarvitaan nopee männänrenkaiden hiomalaite
Aabohax Pitäs olla vielä nopee liekkipipo päähän :D
Sun puhelimen tulos oli 0.046 eikä 0.4.....
Ylemmälle 0,42 ja alemmalle 0,46. Mut noi meidän liuskat menee 0,1 välein, niin laitettiin ylempään 0,4 ja alempaan 0,5. Ei nuo katkokset ole niin millin sadasosien päälle ja virityskäytössä mielellään enemmän rakoa ettei käy niin että menee männänrengasvälit umpeen. Sillon tulee romua...
Theres never enough brake cleaner when you need it ☹️
That's true :D
why are you touching the main bearings with your hands?, use plastic gloves.
Straum Stian Why I shouldn't touch those?
why are you touching the bearing without gloves, your finger have a greas on them that will make your engine oil not sticking to them and that can cause the bearings to wear faster.
The grease doesn't affect in the bearing surface at all. And even if it would there is high pressure oil film between bearing and the crank so there is no way that those would wear abnormally.
English please :p thanks pazi
Yasnick Ramputty There is subtitles ;)
pazi88 I meant the comments down here
Дошел до момента когда он начал ститать, позорно такое выкладывать. Дальше не смотрел стало и так все ясно😂
you guys seriously have no clue what you are doing.
stektirade How come?