MAGNUS THE RED CONFRONTS KONRAD CURZE
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ส.ค. 2024
- Hi all Wolf Lord Rho here!
Today we take a look at Magnus the Red, Primarch of the Thousand Sons, trying to reason with his brother Konrad Curze, Primarch of the Night Lords.
These events are from the short story "The Abyssal Edge" And I really recommend you read the story for yourself first. Not only do you get the most enjoyment this way. But we also help to support the great Black Library and Games Workshop! As without them, we don't have this amazing lore we all love. Link: www.blacklibra...
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"A shovel can be both a tool and a weapon"
**Heavy Iron Warriors breathing**
*A Kriegsman sequels with joy in the distance.
Iron Warriors: SIEGE!
Imperial Fists: FORTIFY!
Iron Warriors: SIEGE!
Imperial Fists: FORTIFY!
Iron Warriors: SIEGE!
Imperial Fists: FORTIFY!
-Repeat for 10K+ years
You smell of dirt and entitlement
Darren Ebanks I am very bitter and you are the reason
@@Audiotrocious I know and I don't care
Magnus: Daaaaaad! Konrad opened fire on me!
Emperor: OMG Konrad is it true?! Why would you do such a thing?
Konrad: Ugh, it's Nighthaunter! And not like Magnus couldn't handle it, it was not for real! Ugh it's like whatever, ugh no one gets me!!
გიორგი მოსაშვილი “I was following your orders to the letter.”
Big E- "you know what I meant Konrad! You shouldn't bully your brother, now say sorry....."
Nighthaunter-...................*mumbles* it's "The Nighthaunter *mumble grumble*
I think the reason I love Curze so much is because his existence is so paradoxical. He believes himself to be an arbiter of the law and yet ruled a legion of sadists and criminals. He could see into the future with terrible clarity at times and yet could not see the power/determination of his own actions. Like most primarchs, he is hypocritical and is, even in his madness, acutely aware of this.
It makes him one of the more appealing Primarchs. Flawed. Fucked over from the start. And there is constantly the question in the novel about him and other NL novels... who is right or wrong about what? Sometimes it seems Konrad is justified. Sometimes it seems his views and interpretation of the facts is merely mounting madness and schizophrenia.
Konrad should have been taught by Sanguinius. They would have had far more in common then he and the likes of Fulgrim or Dorn.
"Love Kurze so much"
is this the "I'm not like all the other girls" of 40k fans?
The sadness of Curze is that he was right. The problem of him being right meant that, what ever actions he does himself, will always (or almost always) end how he saw. Even if he think his actions goes against the horrible future he's trying to prevent, or worse try the opposite, the same future end's up happening, or even worse. It's kind of like the movie The butterfly effect.
He is like the Ultimate INTJ.
I think he lost the grasp that, even if the horrible future ends up happening, trying to lessen suffering by offering redemption, even if it futile due to a predetermined future, offers no irredeemable alternatives or even false hope. If the Emperor is a sort of god of Hope, powered by hope, the alternative only powers his opposition by not strenghtening him.
Look at Sanguinus: he knows his end, he knows his sons are doomed and yet, fostering the nobility of self-betterment and humility of his/their flaws prevented the forces that opposes the Emperor to be able to harvest them and power themselves. They, themselves, are doomed but their noble stuggles are lessening the burden for the Emperor. Allowing Mankind, altho possibly innevitably Doomed, to atleast keep the flame of hope, it's warmth and light, to last longer if even for just a few seconds.
of all the primearchs Leman Russ and Konrad Curze had the heaviest burdens, Leman had the unsavory duty of carrying the excutions and censors of the emperor as he supposely carried out two purges of his brothers and Konrad was the terror weapon of the legions and was constantly tortured by the visions he had the biggest difference was leman had a legion that loved him and brothers he could talk with. I don't think konrad was liked by any of his brothers and he hated his legion so in a way konrad was completely alone
I love that Conrad is just playing with his claws like a child trying to occupy himself.
AshJWilliams He is restraining himself with a repetetive action
Out of all the Primark that fallen to chaos Magnus the Red was the saddest of it all and he was the key stone to the emperor Great plan for his secret project
Kylers Guy I felt bad for Lorgar as well, but after sending his sons and himself into the Eye 👁 he was doomed
@@martinprince7773 You felt bad for Lorgar?! The one seeking a god so he could justify his wanton cruelty? The one who sacrificed his own sons to eternal damnation without being compelled to in any way? The fucker who started it all really isn't deserving of that. I mean really, his personality is as close to pure evil as you can get.
@@eldradulthran6482 Except his definition of divinity was power. He worshiped the Emperor because he was powerful: "In your grip, a thousand worlds turn! By your will, a million vessels sail the void. You are immortal, undying, seeing all and knowing all that transpires across creation. Father, you are a god in all but name. All that remains is to confess to it."
Monarchia was a backwards theocracy ruled by a priest caste and ignorant of the rest of the Imperium by design. Just look at their reactions to the Ultramarines, calling them "false angels". Their worlds were reduced to medieval status and indoctrinated into worship of the Emperor. Monarchia was a perfect world from the viewpoint of Lorgar because they were ignorant and fully indoctrinated, it was by no measure anything approaching a paradise.
Lorgar wanted a god to place above himself so he could justify his cruelty and sadism, to absolve him of his responsibility. So when the Emperor rejected his worship, he was thrown into a crisis because that made him responsible for his own actions and went to search for another god to worship.
If he truly believed a god to be the answer to the question behind the universe, why would he search for a new one, when he believed to have found said god, even if it did reject worship? Not to forget that he searched for new gods to worship, just to worship them, ergo, to place them above him.
He sacrificed his sons not because he needed to, but because a demon told him that he'd get gods to worship if he did. Sure he'd cry when throwing them on the pyre, but he'd do it nonetheless, because a sacrifice needs meaning.
Yeah, whenever I read about Magnus I always wish he had stayed loyal. He was the greatest of all the Primarchs and the only thing that EVER held him back from his true potential was his own conscience.
So many reasons for Magnus to return to the plot.
Kurze "I can't control my citizens because they have hope and an education. This is the Emperors fault, and definitelynot mine."
Magnus "We should value knowledge."
Kurze "That's not what the Emperor would want."
I mean kurze could see the future what if he saw the emperor not wanting them to value knowledge in the future?
Magnus: talks down to Curze
Curze: has a vision of Magnus being broken by Russ,
Curze: *smiles to self*
George Soha -chuckles in Nostramosian
@@Audiotrocious That moment when Nostromo immediately reverts to a cesspool of criminals, the moment Curze is gone.
“Sees Guilimen beat his ass back to the warp”😏😏
Goddamn it... because of you, I now want a great crusade series.
If there is one thing that can be said of Magnus, is that he is a kind soul, maybe even a tad softer than his brother.
Magnus was arrogant, but he always wanted to help people. He believed knowledge would help everyone... but it was his own ignorance that allowed him to believe he knew best.
Magnus, like the other sons, were still human. And humans have flaws as well as benefits.
I don't see the traitors as innocent, but I do see that Chaos is most to blame for their fall. It takes what is the best of someone, then twists it into a mockery of itself, and finally turns it against itself.
well before the whole time he ripped out the kindness out of his soul
@@angelusumbra5741 eh, lorgar was kinda looking for something to worship and he took the rest of his brothers down with him. if he wasn't obsessed with having to worship something, horus wouldn't have fallen and the golden bulwark of the great crusade wouldn't have cracked
@@AsbestosMuffins
True, but he removed his good qualities after he was shattered and reformed, and that was after Tzeench fully corrupted his soul.
And yes, Lorgar's desire for a deity to serve from where he was raised he sorta never had a chance.
Magnus: don’t do this brother!
Curze: don’t care didn’t ask OPEN FIRE
Magnus:I will remember this bruva
Kurze: yeah yeah whatever *OPEN FIRE*
well, he had already opened fire by that point
Story time. I always want Magnus to get his apology and return as a loyalist
Magnus - well intention but fucks up constantly.
Can he even return as a loyalist? I don't think tzeentch would let his greatest toy go so easily
Then you really don't want to read any of the 'Magnus Monologuing on Prospero' Books.
@@gerardclarke1001 what if the Emperor punches tzeentch in the face?
@@gerardclarke1001 technically he could but tzeentch would likely be doing it as part of an elaborate plan to get him to "help" the imperium and in the process fuck up and make it worse.
This is the reason I side with magnus so often why I pity him so much, out of all the legions he and his were almost made to be reviled, hated and distrusted and denied everything they strove or worked for, even in the beginning of the imperium they were branded and labeled outcasts and never to be considered true loyal astartes, they were doomed from the utter get go, and every time they worked along with their brothers and legions, no matter how big the sacrifice no matter how loyal the act, they were never rewarded like the other chapters, even when they made the smallest of requests it was almost immediately refused and their allegiance immediately called into question for merely asking to be granted a rightful reward for their diligence, not that they were perfect but its easy to see if the imperium was alot more kinder to them they more than likely would have remained loyal to the Imperium.
all is dust
Especially when you compare them to Konrad Curze and his legion of criminals.
This applies to alot of legions
Grimdark
Meanwhile Kurze, Perturabo and Angron could commit as many war crimes as they wanted without so much as a stern reprimand from uncle Malcador. But giving actual dispensation for the knowledge gathering and psychic primarch to do what he was made for,, even if with oversight from Terra ? Seems like it was too much for them to bother.
When the nerdy kid in the family fights the edgy dark teen this is the whole thing in a nutshell
Kurze has some of the best interactions with other Primarchs in the whole of the HH.
Curze deals in absolutes....
Only a Sith deals in absolutes
The dark side of the force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be...heretical
@@kinghur did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Magnus the wise?
@@AthenianNZ no
@@kinghur I thought not. It's not a story the Remembrancers would tell you. It's a heretical legend. Magnus the Red was a Primarch of the Emperor, so powerful and so wise he could use the warp to influence his magic to create life... He had such knowledge of the Warp that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying. The dark side of the Warp is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful... The only thing he was afraid of was losing his legion, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately he taught his first captain everything he knew, then his first captain turned 90% of his legion into dust. Ironic, he could save himself from death, but not others.
@*진* , you are perfectly right. Both of them were dealing in absolutes. They just didn't realized.
Maybe Luke was right. As long as there are Jedi and practitioners of the Dark Side, the Force will never be balanced.
No one:
Absolutely no one:
Konrad: Opens fire on another legion
I am morally opposed to burning books. But if the question is "What did the Emperor intend?" then the Emperor wanted the library burned. To Curze, what he wants and what he thinks is right is subordinate to what the Emperor instructed him to do. Magnus puts his own desires above the Emperor's. Magnus cannot conceive of the Emperor not giving in to what he wants or sharing his wishes (naievete or arrogance, depending on what you think of Magnus), but Curze actually knows the Emperor better here, because he knows the Emperor is fully capable of destruction for many reasons. Konrad Curze gave everything to his father's purpose, and he sure as hell didn't let popularity with his brothers influence that.
A Great Crusade series could theoretically go on forever. Think about how many expeditionary fleets there were in the galaxy, and then how many planets each fleet brought to compliance. Its a fantastic chance to really establish the idiosyncracies of each legion and primarch through all the battles and trials they faced.
it is so interesting how GW is setting up the Primarchs to return not as saviors of Humanity but possibly its downfall, all the Primarchs were drilled that worshiping the Emperor as a god was wrong and punishable with death. the returning Primarchs must see the whole galaxy as following Magnus and Lognar, and all they fought and died for undone by none other than those they fought to save.
Damn on point bro, guilliman must've been sickenned by what he learned of the current state of things when he woke up.
If you use a shovel and dig a hole it’s a tool.
If you use a shovel as a Krieg Guardsman it’s a weapon.
On Krieg, bayonets _are_ shovels ! x)
A shovel is basically a weapon against the ground
I love how Magnus is boasting about knowing more about the emperor and boasting of how close he is to him, knowing things his brother couldn’t know, but Curze reveals something Magnus doesn’t know. That the emperor makes mistakes, and while understanding the universe is ways no one else does, he doesn’t understand humanity, be it his sons or the astartes or regular humans. He he doesn’t now how to nurture or lead them properly, or allow room for them to make their mistakes as a vital part of learning.
I think that by the emperor treating his sons as tools and not sons means 1 of 2 things. 1) he’s just so old and vast in power he doesn’t remember what it’s like to be human. Or 2) he IS treating his sons how he thinks a father/creator should treat them because perhaps that’s the same treatment he got from his own father/mother/creator. We still don’t know the true origins of the emperor. Maybe he was treated as a tool as well, and is mimicking that learned behaviour. Just a thought.
Awesome vid :)
I think the emperor is a daemon from the warp of order
the emperor saw the primarchs as his sons. He also created them to be tools. Idk why more recent lore wants to make the emperor such a prick but I’m electing to ignore those little bits of characterization.
As far as we are aware the emperor is like 50,000 years old and has been subtlety nudging mankind along bridge shit hit the fan with with the age of strife.
His one purpose has always been the ascension of humanity. He is human, albeit a very esoteric one who isn’t very relatable. We praise the primarchs for being so dedicated to the imperium they commit war crimes, but we judge the emperor for being so loyal to humanity that he can and will sacrifice his sons if it means humanity lives.
He loves the primarchs, in his own very strange way, we can see that through some of his chiller moments, notably with Vulkan(probably because Vulkan could bring the chill out of Khorne). He cares about them and most certainly had plans for them to take up various roles in the ascended imperium, or chill out in their mansions on terra, playing primarch poker and shit.
He loved Horus so much he risked Mankind for him by not instantly deleting him the second he saw him.
I think the new emperor were seeing now has learned his lesson. Somewhere in his fractured mind, he still loves all his sons. That’s why he told Morty he could be saved. But he will not risk humanity again. For now, guilleman and all returning primarchs are strictly tools, he can love them openly again when mankind is safe.
Off topic, but I just read Perturabo: hammer of Olympia and boy oh boy. I always thought it was an understatement that he was a big baby. He had one of the chilliest upbringings but ended up doing something he compared himself to Curze for
Angel Exterminatus is a much better portrayal of him, I really disliked the way they made him in the one
It's stories like this depicting these Demigods that makes the HH series so good! Seeing their flaws and how their upbringings (or lack of) mould them is just brilliant
"...Konrad has balls of Solid Rock." - Quote of the video lol
well now I wanna know if Magnus ever got back at Konrad.
Yeah he broke all his Smith's CD's
The interaction between Jago and Arihman was pretty great too
The Khan and Sanguinius would have given Magnus leave for at least 2 weeks.
and Perturabo wwould have joined him, the 2 shared love for knowwledge and exploration
And Angron would've attacked the enemy, the knowledge, and Magnus haha
vulkan vs kurze confrontation (during crusade) is a must do video :)
The Emperor would have been pissed at this point, Humanity needs all knowledge we can recover from the darkage of technology anything from then would catapult us further back to where we were. Magnus should have been allowed to search that tower.
The Emporer also sealed Martian Vaults containing knowledge he considered to be corrupted. It was a big reason the Mechanicus revolted.
that tower was the repository of every STC blueprint ever.
Curze should be really fucking glad, that Magnus always held back. Had Magnus had the temperament of Russ, Curze would have his soul lit on fire by a wrathful psyker demigod right then and there.
The widespread disdain for knowledge is one of the more infuriating aspects of Warhammer 40k in my opinion.
„The screams of the innocent, the pleas of the righteous resound to the cruel laughter of Dark Gods. The age of knowledge and enlightenment has ended. The Age of Darkness has begun.”
Same 🙄
Considering the threat posed by any knowledge about Chaos, it is _quite_ justified in this universe ! ;/
@@Archon3960 How well did being ignorant serve the Imperium? I know, it caused the Horus Heresy🤦🏾♂️!
Chicken Permission The Cutlet Can’t argue with that.
Ave Dominus Nox
I believe that Magnus himself should have been allowed to inspect the knowledge and study it for a short while before Konrad destroyed the library. I think its just foolhardy to destroy knowledge even if its dangerous.
And this is precisely why the Emperor did not tell his sons about the true nature of the Warp. If they knew about it, all of crazy crap would hit the fan.
Unfortunately, it turned out that He was several miscalculations...
@@Archon3960 It sure wouldn't have helped with Lorgar or the like (though to be fair, Lorgar and Angron were pretty much irredeemable anyway), but it would have helped tremendously with Horus and Magnus. Even if he told no one else about it, he should have told Magnus. Not to forget that big E is only able to fight Chaos, because he knows so much about it and the little fact that most of the Inquisition's knowledge about Chaos and the Warp in general comes from the book of Magnus.
Thus would you fall to the snares of Chaos (the Devil)
I'm loving this week ,thanks wolf lord
Very nice selection, Curze is such an interesting character in my opinion. I'm am unsure about Sanguinous, but Curze I think, acts without fear of any of his brothers because he knows how he is going to die. I also think he has no problem opening fire on a fellow legion. It's not clear when Konrad learns of the future heresy, but he does know of it well before it happens.
He has visions of it. He confided this in only one brother, Fulgrim. Flugrim then told Dorn, who then confronted Curze. We don't know all of what was said, except that it ended with Curze beating that stuffy yellow grump into a coma.
Magnus: You're wizard Konrad
Curze: I am WHAT?!
MAgnus: Konrad ...YOu're WIZZARD
Curze: IAM WHAT?!
....................
I like Kurze. He had no chance which is the tragedy of his life. He should've excepted a compromise but demanded he bring the knowledge to the Emperor.
What did Curze see in the future that made him destroy the library? Would it have empowered or corrupted Magnus in some way? Also ADB really milking that "DID YOU THINK YOU ALONE TALKED TO FATHER?" trope.
Thats a point..
Curze only saw the future to an extent. Magnus and many of his son could as well. Not as powerful to see far into the future or the exact events but could see it nether the less. It really did boil down to who thought they were right or wrong I think
@@garrettkiley522 how could you be shore?
Just put his actions in Horus heresy together, and you see he knows everything from the beginning, but one man alone cant change the future of hole galaxy.
@@m.mkhademi4648 Like Sangunius? If this is true that makes Kurze way more sympathetic imo
@@samhobbs9116 Yeah but what if he was helping make the Heresy come about as he saw it unfolding in his visions? Butterfly Effect shit. Like how he tried to murder off Sevetar and the entire 1st company of his own legion to prevent them from turning loyalist after the heresy. (Sev's sanctioned red gauntlets are for something Curze saw he would do in the future, not something he had done)
"This only ends one way. My way." That's all of Curze in one line.
With the underlying implication that Magnus couldn't just mindgank the whole command cafe of the eighth... Magnus let himself be talked down to maintain his standards of honour.
Magnus: I want to look in that library
Kurze: You think you're better than me?
Magnus talking to Conrad is like Martian Manhunter talking to Batman!
Judge Dredd the Law Batman+Vlad the Impaler=Konrad Curze
@@Audiotrocious yep! Absolutely! Couldn't have matched those two better myself!
Of all the primarchs, Magnus could b considered the total opposite of Konrad.
Considers himself to b enlightened, dwelling in the light, a force of positivity. Magnus prides himself in his flexible views of right and wrong.
In the end, it's his love, selfconfidence and desire to do good on a level above his brothers, that destroy him.
It is strange that in all his self-righteousness Magnus took part of the SIege of Terra, attacking the cradle of humanity along traitor Legions, but Curze did not participate in the Siege of Terra in any way.
Skywatcher Adept - Did not think about that. Very true.
His conscience killed him. If he didnt care abour anything he did, he would have been around for a long time.
@@skywatcheradept Magnus didn't really take part to help Horus or the rest of the traitor legions (as shown in part by their total absence during the rest of the heresy and his help to the White Scars), but to get his soul back.
Konrad didn't care about the Heresy in the first place and had no reason to be at Terra.
I don't think that he wanted to eclipse his brothers in "being good", it's just that he (correctly) assumed that he was the only one who (if anyone) could stop the heresy from happening and unfortunately fell into the trap Chaos had laid for him.
@@MajinOthinus "to get his soul back" Magnus took place in the Siege of Terra. He led his Thousand Sons to Ullanor for traitor legion mustering. He helped to disable the psychic berrier of Terra to allow daemons to manifest on the cradle of humanity. So he aided the traitors in the worst possible way in the worst possible moment.
Sevatar deserves his own week.
Magnus should have put the barrier up around Curze! Then crushed him tighter with each hit on the tower. It would have been interesting to see if Curze would have been stubborn enough to not call off the bombardment after a couple bones broke... but thats just me lol
Konrad is a pretty strong psyker too. He would have at least foreseen it and taken measures against it
Im surprised magnus took that on the chin and didnt try to fight back.
I wish magnus had smashed him and the rest of the night lords (including sevatar) into crumpled little ceramite cans with his mind molesting powers.
Boo Radley normally id say how was curze opening fire on fellow astartes not quite the scandal but it fits with the sweep it under the rug mentality of the imperium. It keeps being made a big point that the idea of astartes fighting eachother is inconceivable and yet there are quite a few instances of that happening prior to the heresy.
Yeah it would have been cool to see magnus freeze sevatar as hes about to give the order to open fire and then freeze curze, slap him and then say no mate, this ends MY way. Dunno if its just magnus’ bitch complex where he like to cop all this shit so he has an excuse to play the victim and justify his acting out.
That's what Magnus does. I can't think of a single example of Magnus fighting back until his brawl with Russ on Prospero. It's why none of his brothers respected him. Because he constantly tried to be reasonable with people who were constitutionally incapable of reason.
I always saw this as curze trying to teach Magnus a lesson that comes from a place of genuine worry. Especially when he talked about how the emperor bringing light to nostramo was a bad thing, I got from it that Konrad was so adamant on it because he was trying to teach Magnus the lesson found in the story of icarus: “if you fly too close to the sun, you get burned.” And considering that Konrad would have gotten visions of Magnus delving too deep into knowledge and the shit that accompanied it and so Konrad was trying to ram home the idea that some knowledge doesn’t help progress humanity and in fact would cause more trouble. Definitely makes konrad’s interactions with his brothers more interesting when you look at them in the context of curze trying to teach his brothers lessons about the flaws that lead to their greatest failures.
Today is a good day when Rho uploads!!
Curze and Russ sure have a lot in common...
The Judge and the Executioner of the Emperor... How great their combo would have been if they had grown together on Terra?...
@Jeremy Hess how much of that is Konrad. I think that his absolutist mentality is caused more by his upbringing (if you could call it that).
@Jeremy Hess Kurze is Batman if he snapped like the Joker. Good intentions, but an absolute psychopath.
To understand glimmer of Curze true purpose, you need to live in pain and corruption, and if you have it you know Curze isn't batman, nor a judge. He is *purifier* and to correct the most common sickness of humanity, he have to kill the lost.
@@VonKuro but dont you wonder would he only see black and white had he not landed on nistramo. Maybe somewhere more like terra.i kinda feel bad for this guy.
Sevatar is a Badass! I recently bought a small chainsaw on an extendable pole, and it reminds me of him every time I use it 😎
Well the emperor annihilated all organized religions on Terra and destroyed who knows how many libraries and texts to do so. He also gave the order to massacre the followers of the church of the lightning stone. In light of that it’s hard to see Conrad in the wrong here or that the Emperor would have taken the side of Magnus on this.
Poor Magnus trying compromise and reason with a childlike innocence that leads him to believe he can save the universe if only he uses his sorcery and has the right knowledge. His story was never going to have a happy ending in a verse like Warhammer.
Or any universe with humans in it for that matter...
Magnus is my spirit animal
if Magnus had the temper of Russ or Angron, Curze would turn into dust and sand.
Kurze is always right, that's why he's always wrong
Ah, Magnus... no point being righteous. One Konrad knows the "truth" of the Universe.
God I hope we get "IT IS ALSO A HAMMER" this week
Curze reminds me of even broodier, evil Batman with an army and claws.
If Magnus wanted to save the library, he should have entered it and stayed. Lower the shield and make Konrad murder him.
I don't think Curze would have hesitated to bomb it, regardless of Magnus' presence. :/
Curze is about the only being in the Imperium (besides big E himself obviously), where that gamble would not have worked, but backfired spectacularly.
You can't tell the guy who'd kill you as punishment for a parking ticket to stop something because he'd kill you with it.
At the time, he wouldn't have killed one of his brothers. What would Dad say?
Emporer bless you wolf lord rho.
This is why I love the Night Haunter.
Honestly.... Your narration, combined with the background music and gorgeous artwork is so immersive.
Magnus, and his legion, have been the most undeserved Marines of their fate. For all of their knowledge and loyalty, they were the ones most manipulated by fate. It was never inevitable for them to fall, it was just set against them at all times. They were always blinded by the fact that they knew more then the rest. And up until the end, Magnus tried. I am not a SM or CSM fan, but, the Thousand Sons were done wrong by both sides in my opinion.
I like how Magnus caused his own fall not by being malevolent, but by his lack of prudence and self control. It's so in line with reality. Dabbling too far in places better left alone can bring ruin despite any amount of good intentions. So many people prove this true in history and in real life. Magnus even clarifies that he has this error of understanding in the first line he says to Kurze.
And all the 'Magnus is innocent' team make the same mistake as Magnus too. We humans fail to learn from history far too consistently.
This shows one more possible reason why the Emperor didn't inform his sons of Chaos.
Konrad said it so himself,
A well meaning teacher who showed his people a perspective that they're not prepared for.
Didn't work out well regardless...
Magnus, was done dirty!! And I believe he can be brought back into the light!!
He makes a truthful statement in defending knowledge, and you have to find an opportunity at a character dig, calling him "arrogant". At least you're not attacking Guilliman, this time.
Hey bud, thanks for another great video. Have you ever considered streaming on TH-cam, maybe a lore Q&A with fans, or your favorite fan theories? It makes direct donations via superchat quite easy as well. Just a thought though, love the videos!
Agreed
It’s very much in future plans!
Yeah but lets be honest, Magnus was in the right here.
Let's be honest people won't admit that.
"Konrad did nothing wrong"
He usually is he’s just frequently the victim of circumstance
In any other universe there would be no question of that... but this is the universe with memetic viruses like Chaos. Those tomes could have turned legionaries into traitors and heretics. Still, Curze be spiteful.
#BlameMagnus
personaly i love the paragraph wolf lord Ro choose for us and his calm voice, and the thought of others.
Can i ask something?
Could you please show us some beautiful moment between loyalist (specifically roboute guilliman) and betrayer primarch's before heresy.
Thank you.
I'm fairly sure I know how what the last video will be and im pumped for you guys to hear it. The conversation between Konrad Curze and the emperor just before the assassin arrives to kill him.
😉
Curze was a really cool character before he became the Nykwana Wombosi of 40k.
I miss complex, subtle, brutalised, unwilling to risk rejection but righteous and a speaker of the truth (unto death) Night Haunter.
The what?
I do love kurze tho
Wombosi from Bourne?
Well, keep in mind that "The truth" was infact a carefully constructed lie, specifically designed to obscure the truth.
@@UnknownSquid I think Curze knows this and its the hypocrisy and hubris he can't stand. This whole scene with the tower and the kyne shield is a metaphore for it. Curze is saying that the ends justify the means, but the problem is that if the ends don't justify themselves, then none of it is morally justifiable. Curze is singularly lacking in ego, he sees the truth and he could have even lived with the absurd lie at the heart of it all, were it not for the fact nobody else was willing to acknowledge the lie; either through egotism or cowardice. If you've ever been the AS guy in a room full of preening ambitious weasels, you'll know the feeling. 😁
My theory about this is that Curze saw Magnus and his sons using the knowledge in the spire post heresy, and wanted to prevent it. Or Curze is just crazy 🤷♂️. Great vid either way
Dang, that would be pretty interesting if that was the case.
I think Curze was just trolling Magnus
Two of my favorite Primarchs on opposite sides. Conrad’s conviction and justice is admirable. But knowledge, understanding and realization are far more important in a universe of worlds split apart for centuries. Magnus again is in the right. Kurz needs to relax and stop being so Judge Dredd about everything.
This is Warhammer 40k. Curze was absolutely, 100% right. Magnus falls to Chaos....and Curze *KNEW* that was exactly what would happen to him. He saw Fulgrim's daemon future when they first met on Nostromo.
I love your videos. Please keep them coming. I like how you read the text then discuss the pieces.
There are few lore channels I subscribe to. You're the newest I watch and easily one of the best! Keep up what you're doing, I really like your style of video!
Keep up the good work, liking this week's efforts. Made me buy the short story.
How Magnus lost to the Lemun is beyond my understanding yet i supouse it has to do with the writers and what not, Magnus is one of my favorite Primachs he is a giant in phisicayl and mental form and if it wasnt horus with playing magnus and lemun both the heresy would be difrent and magnus is fate would be difrent but it is what it is tahank you wold lord rho and keep the good work Big fan of you chanel since its creation ps soory for bad speling english isnt my first lanuege bey :D
well he was in distress and there was a lot in his mind
Perhaps Russ had some psychic powers of his own, or some anti-psychic measures...
@@Archon3960 it is reported that he had a negative effect on psykers, and had some innate resistance to it, not on a blank level but some, and he had his rune armour which supposedly also give protection. in the end he won due to his 2 wolves who stopped magnus just when he was about to deliver the finishing blow and russ had a lucky strike and hit his eye.
In a later book, Malcador the Sigilite practically tells Leman that Magnus would've killed him if he bothered to actually go for the kill. Russ was fighting to kill, Magnus to pacify/neutralise, if I had to guess.
Magnus does seem rather sheltered, having never really been on his own. His optimism and self righteousness most likely stems from his lack of experience in anything else.
Another fantastic video, I love the lore
My lovely cursed Nighthaunter... I wish I could figure out why you are my favorite primarch... I hope that someone puts on your crown and you can be come back and maybe confuse everyone and come home to Terra.
For the life of me, I cant help but feel that Conrad, now that he has been executed, sees that his crimes have been punished.
Perhaps he sees this as his sentence being fulfilled and he can be reborn as the angel of law he wanted to be.
This is the "man" who held justice and law higher than any other... Even if it was a tainted and extreme view of it.
I hope he comes back and surprises us all. Only him tho, for he hates his Nightlords more than he hated himself.
Just fun thoughts... From someone who can't afford to play the game but listens to the lore and is very grateful for that.
Cheers mate!
Great video as always, Rho. :) Your insight into the lore always helps me to understand something I might have otherwise glossed over. And your voice is rather enjoyable to listen to, as well!
Reminds me of Corax's and Gillman's chat on the primarchs
From the Vaults of the Blood Ravens: An encoded vox recording of Primarch Konrad Curze, made shortly before his death. Marked priority listening for Blood Ravens' chapter master.
"Knowledge is power, or so says my brother, Magnus, who ended up chained to it by a grinning warp octopus. Here's a reminder: Power corrupts. Look at Magnus and his many-eyed lot now, if you can gaze upon those gibbering mutants without puking, and tell me it doesn't. Back when I cared about enforcing the rule of law, or at least (derision in voice) 'The Emperor's' view of it, Magnus wanted to save some library -- the flowery-named Tower of Serenity -- and risked his and his sons neck for it. I give him having some ... spine for that. Gah, what I would give to show you that vision of Russ performing that backbreaker -- it made me laugh every time I ran into Magnus and saw his fate (chuckles). You know, the difference between Magnus and The Robot is Magnus will argue that the truth isn't what's before your eyes till he turns blue in the face - ha! - while the other will stick his head out of his Ultramar rule books, and at least say 'Recalculating.' That one-eyed, ivory tower-dwelling fool never could see the forest that made the pages of his book his snout was stuck in. That knowledge didn't help those people realize they were in front of a knife that would cut their throats with barely a sweat if they said no to compliance; that tower's serenity didn't make them peacefully realize their society's time had come and gone. They died by the millions, screaming and burning, until a handful realized what they could've had if they said yes, then groveled for whatever law and teachings the Glorious Golden Father offered. All we had to do was burn whatever was left of the old regime so they didn't ... fall back to their old ways (sighs, agitation in voice, grinding noise -- claws? Teeth?).
"And then Magnus had the AUDACITY to say I needed permission from THE Emperor, claiming he could contact Dad in the warp, as if his mind had a private vox channel to His mind and he knew the Old Fart would say save the knowledge. 'Tell me, did Dad tell you knowledge was sacred, while he burnt down the last church on Earth, had Thunder Warriors slay the scribes serving warlords, and confiscated books challenging His rule?' I would've gone on and asked if he shared any knowledge in fixing his sons before bailing on him, just as he left Nostromo a festering mess when he pulled me from overseeing its gradual change from a crime-ridden hopeless society to one of more honesty (sighs) -- so I hoped, once -- but the silence and stun on his face was enough. Let fate's wolves bite him later. Oh, and did they ever (maniacally titters)."
I can only imagine if Perturabo was in Magnus' place, Probably would have started launching nukes as soon as Konrad said fire
probably. im also sure that he would have immediately opened fire on curze if he knew that he attacked Magnus, after all Magnus was the only brther he truely liked.
I would love to see perturabo there cause oh boy things would get interesting fast
Kurze definitely converses like jagatai. Pure bad ass. Mkter
Ive said it before I’ll say it again it’s fuckn tragic what happened to Magnus I’d love to see him redeemed in some way we search for and take the broken the lost and forgotten all hail the emperor
I never thought i would hear konrad speak in this way
i love Curze his Batman taken to his absolute Finally Conclusion his was one of the The most sad story's Of all the Primarchs
Knowledge isn't the problem. What is done with said knowledge is where problems are started.
I can see obtaining knowledge to learn and prepare, that is never wrong. But I also see that humanity is rarely responsible with knowledge and so many disasters that have resulted.
Pre-Heresy Magnus wouldn't have worried me. Post-Heresy Magnus should be stopped from attaining knowledge at all costs.
The Night Haunter wins more and more of my respect....
It's hard not to respect him.
@@randomcenturion7264
All of the Primarchs have admirable qualities, loyal or not to the Imperium. But some where far more wishy-washy then others. Konrad Curze always stuck to what he believed....as far as he could decipher from his mania.
And he looses more and more of mine. Him and Mortarion are the absolute worst trash.
@@Tragantar1310 Personally, I'd say Mortarion and Angron were the worst. As bad as Konrad was he, at least in his own twisted way, reduced casualties. Angron wiped out whole cities because he has no self-control.
And Mortarion is, just the WORST. A self-important, self-deluding sack of shit that is so pathetic, even his own sons think he's a loser and prefer to follow Typhus.
@@randomcenturion7264 the reason i didnt list angron is because he never really had a chance to do good to begin with with that thingy in his head. conrad and mortartion CHOSE their destiny
Its so funny how Curze shows and proves how loyal he is to the Emperor. Curze says all that matters is obedience. Then we later see it was in fact Magnus's disobedience that ruined Magnus. Curze shows that he is loyal to the extreme. I see why the Emperor thought the Khan would betray him and Curze would remain loyal. Khan didn't completely agree with the imperial truth, but Curze went to extremes to support it. Curze's extreme loyalty, drove him to extreme insanity. Which goes to show how power and authority can corrupt and absolutes or extreme power and authority can corrupt absolutely and extremely. But in the end and even in his insanity Curze was right. The empire of man will kill you if you break the law and he broke the law and joined chaos to prove his point. I wonder if he really ever turned to chaos, but simply wanted to prove he was right. The night lords never dedicated themselves to any particular chaos patron. They still go about exacting justice in the most cruel and heinous ways. Curze proved that "you call my ways appalling, but you will cut my head off and demand that it be brought back to you in just as gruesome a fashion as I". It's bad when Curze and the Night Lords do it, but righteous and holy when the Imperium does the same thing. What hypocrites. Even in 40k the imperium don't do anything Curze hasn't done and even purge whole worlds if need be to enact justice, punish the unlawful, and destroy corruption. How similar are the extremes of the Imperium are to Curze. How Chaos like, the Imperium is.
Really starting to love these vids bro
Onward to 40k subs for the Wolf lord! Keep doing the good work sir!
Aww WolfLord mate another AMAZING upload!!! 😃😃😃 YOU SIR ARE SPOILING US....haha
#MagnusDidNothingWrong
Didn't Horus send Curze around like a hot potato between a few primarchs?
*snipars face*
Who did Magnus NOT argue with about preserving knowledge?
All Primarchs were flawed just like the lesser and ordinary men. Only that these were superimposed. These two Primarchs were the best example. I just really hoped that Konrad Kurze found his vindication in his death and his soul was free. Free from Chaos and Order just by Himself sitting and enjoying retirement. That is why I hoped he never returns.
.
.
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As for Magnus, I hope he dies. That fuckin' Nerd.
Wolflord. Maybe a what if. Magnus didnt defect? The heresy would have been very very different. He was after-all fated to sit the golden throne himself For all time powering the astronomicion.
Curze is such a complex character. There is a part of him that has more honor and nobility than most of the other primarchs.
A part of him- "90% of the planet survived". I wouldn't call that honor.
MamboJambo - Yeah. But his intentions r good. He believes he is doing what's best for people and he has a code.
He doesnt enjoy the slaughter and he hates his sons for emulating him. He feels he is doomed to b what he is, with no control or escape.
Which is y he hates Corax so much. Because they r so similar. Yet, Corax was able to break the pattern and become something positive. Or, it was just a positive fate that fell in his lap.
But, whatever the reason is, the point is that Curze is and does horrible dark things, telling himself to accept it, because there is no way out.
But, Corax casts doubt on that. Corax is proof, somehow, that maybe Konrad did not have to become what he is.
Corax destroys the code that Curze lives by. He makes Curze wonder if he had a choice in the direction he took. Which means he is responsible for all the horror that surrounds him.
Corax, just by existing, says "Konrad, u did all of this to yourself".
By story.. yes. By lore... such is and not. A lot of them are acting like manchildren.
I do understand that they may know sth, Magnus does not. Maybe all along he was the good guy. Not saying anything against that.
I just don't understand how the super efficient astarte, that nothing can stop, and you know, the whole legion kind of thingy, destroys a world's 90% population. By either orbital bombardment to civilians, or summary executions to break the populace.
Don't forget that in most books, all these planets have no soldiers that can stop the Astarte. This is the 30k. These guys shoot someone and a big poof of blood vapor happens. They run with 20-30km/h, and really.. nothing stops them. Yet somehow the populace keeps dying off in every case. I understand I'm naive in this case and war is war. Could've been worse.
But the Imperium is making shitholes right and left, the Primarchs acting like petulant children, only a couple are mature, the Emperor does not care, and billions of people are getting murdered.
Both in small and big picture I feel like these guys are just villains at their very best, chasing an illusion of "peace" they are destroying.
I'm offended beyond reason.
MamboJambo - yup. To any other races, or non-imperium human civilizations out there, the Imperium of Man would b a horrible, horrible thing to deal with.
Uncountable numbers, highly advance/destructive tech, use of all things warp, mutants, monsters, witches, warlocks, super soldiers, demi-god generals. All being led by a Genocidal Mad God.