As an electrician for many years now, I do understand the reasoning behind it, but I just wanted to compliment you on a very easy to understand explanation.
This is hands down one of the best explanations I've seen on this. Usually when this is discussed they only of what you do and not why you are doing it. Good work.
This is a perfect explanation but it’s also important to recognize how dangerous it is to disconnect a ground wire or what happens if a conduit is broken because there would be a potential difference across the disconnected path. In other words never assume that a ground wire is dead because it can get you when you disconnect it.
I've watched lots of TH-cam videos trying to understand this concept. I'm a visual person and I also want to know why something works. If I just memorize rules I don't remember it near as well. I can rethink the process you described and refresh my memory. You did a great job! Thank you!
Here’s one that baffles me - you have a range or dryer with 3 terminals and ground. The instructions tell you in a 2 wire install (older homes) to connect the neutral and ground on the device together. I was thinking this through, and became real to me when I tried to use a 40-amp gfci breaker and it kept tripping. Often the logic boards or a motor are 120v, so they are technically flowing neutral current through ground (and the shell of the device), and if at some point a fault occurs, or the grounding conductor comes loose, that shell now becomes live. I was taking some lineman courses and they were talking about the requirements for parallel grounding of disconnected lines due the possibility of picking up on emf current simply from being next to an energized wire or the wind blowing. This stuff is serious and we take so much for granted. Sorry for the rant, but there is a lot behind how we ground. God bless and thanks for all your work.
I have a vivid memory from about 1974, when I jumped on a section of chain link outside a neighbors house. My friend pulled me off as I was “stuck” to it. The father had grounded the dryer to the fence (as I recall)
Like to THANK the video for clarifying very important topic around everything electric in the house, ground surfaces need only ground connections, so there is NEVER a remote chance for white neutral wire returning any hot AC current to a ground somewhere much further to be connected with metal surfaces of devices because they are/were not separated like they should be at 1st point of disconnect in the local house circuit ... only like to say I wish I knew ... this as teenager hooking up stuff for self and other people free but no reports of injury thus far ... but perfection is everything ... so with new information in mind everything will be checked, corrected and perfected when building NEW ...
Excellent job. Something to remember is that all conductors are also resistors. The human body is also a conductor/resistor and all the metal components in our electrical systems are also conductor/resistors. When you put resistors in parallel in a circuit the total resistance will be less than the lowest resistance value in the circuit.
I learned so much from your videos today, this one in particular. To show my appreciation I'm even watching the ads til the end, well most of them anyways. Thank you very much.
As a EE from long ago, I loved this explanation. I'm not a full-time sparky, but do a fair amount of work on 100+ year old homes and buildings and the amount of knowledge that I've forgotten is high. Never too proud to got back and review the basics. Also, have to check out the NEC and updates even though so much existing stuff is sooooo old. Where I live, NM is verboten so gnd wires don't exist as in the NM world.
I had solar installed several years ago and shortly after I needed to replace my main panel due to main breaker buss issues and to expand the number of circuits. In the process of removing the old panel I found that the neutrals and grounds were still bonded together, which at that point the main panel would have been a sub-panel due to the solar having a main disconnect after the meter head. I was surprised to see that seeing as the solar installation had to be inspected by the NEC/Underwriters inspector before being energized. I separated the grounds and neutrals in the main panel. Thanks for the great video.
GREAT VIDEO!!! I love the way you used the diagram of current flow. That made it very clear what could happen. You were also using correct electrical units describing current flow for what it is and no words like "power flowing". Nice job all around. Thanks!! Wish you would do video on generator transfer switching.
I personally think NEC should mandate separate ground bus bars for all installations. Neutral bud bar and ground bud bar, then bond them together in main panel only. This makes moving to solar or Generator easier and safer when it isn’t done unknowingly to home owner
excellent explanation. under normal operating conditions, neutral may have current flowing through it (when unbalanced load), while ground wire will never have current under normal conditions.
Thank you Electrical Code Coach! I subbed to your channel and appreciate the knowledge and wisdom you share sir. May GOD bless you! You have inspired me to raise my skill level and go into being am electrician apprentice and praying more in time.
The ground wire should be installed as basically an "extra neutral" wire that is connected to the chassis of an appliance instead of the neutral connection on it. It's a safety wire that will safely carry the current back to the breaker box if there is somehow a leak of current from the hot wire, through a component inside the appliance, to it's chassis. That way, if your grounded body touches an exterior metal part of the appliance, YOU don't become the path for the stray current to return to the breaker box, it rides on the ground wire instead. Electricity ALWAYS follows the path of least resistance, and a properly installed ground wire has much less resistance to the breaker box than the path between your body, the earth, to the breaker box. Therefore, no shock from a leaky appliance if you touch it with a proper ground.
In workers camp.....a hot/cold shower mixer has a 10 volts AC from those copper plumbings with the concrete in the bathroom. When the earth cable in the water heater was disconnected. Now it's fine. Didn't bother to troubleshoot specially those were old facility.
If I could Give more than one thumbs up you would get a crap load from me. Best explanation I have ever seen by far. Almost 40 years in the trades. You nailed it.
Awesome explanation. Reminds me of some electrical faults I saw on boats, where the (12v, thank goodness) current was getting drawn the wrong way through the circuit because there was a better ground in an unanticipated place. The ground from one circuit was functioning as the hot for a second circuit. Hard for an amateur like me to wrap my head around sometimes.
This is soo true. I came off of a outside panel bow to hook up my camper and i would get a light shock, almost like a 12vlt shock and couldnt figure it out. I called in an electrician and it was this very thing.
@7:00 side note, the panel and rigid will only be energized if you bonded the neutral bar to the panel which like youve been saying they should be seperated at every other means of discconect but also unbonded.
Electrical engineer here, It does not matter if the ground circuit, wires, conduit etc. carries current. You won't get a shock (unless the ground is faulty and open - which is a separate problem). Separating G/N in subpanels is to stop ground loops from occurring which causes noise, hum and interference in audio, video and computer systems. Its not a safety issue but rather to stop ground loop current flows.
Correct under normal circumstances you would not get shocked, but it is definitely a safety issue. One thing you're not considering is that if there is current flowing on it and you have a ground fault on another circuit it can limit the capacity to clear the ground fault or prevent it completely. Most definitely a safety hazard.
Making a super clear case for why we need to separate at any point after the first disconnect. Why do we need to connect ground and neutral at first disconnect?
I've always separated the ground from neutral at the breaker panel. The ground goes to the grounding rod, the neutral goes to the neutral side of the breaker panel and then the return side of the powerline. Anything else courts disaster.
I've noticed alot of electrical workers do know when and where to bond and separate grounds and neutrals. What I've seen time after time of not bonding a transformer. I've seen lots of licensed electricians think that because of first disconnect being bonded that they didn't have to bond the transformer . I maybe wrong I my explanation ,but I try to explain that it is now a separately derived system and you start all over again.
I Get it!!!! This makes me wonder about my Old welding connector. off panel 2 in the garage. (no neutral) Off my sub panel. 2 BTW my panel 2 has the neutral; disconnected from the case. I worked on 5000 amp DC plants in a Telephone exchange building. We had a PHG (Personal Hazard Ground) and would measure to make sure this PHG had no current on it. Thanks. I had AC electricians tell me "Oh it is just DC" LOL Just subbed.
AWESOME video! Quick question. I'm looking to do two subpanels in series (garage subpanel connects to shed subpanel for multiple local branch circuits for shed lighting, 240v air compressor circuit, and outlets). Given what you've stated in this video and your out building series, I'm guessing BOTH subpanels need their own ground circuits (separate grounding rods and equipment ground in series from the originating structure) and BOTH subpanels need to have their bonding screws removed?
Not sure about the NEC, but in the CEC(Canadian) the white wire in a 2 wire system is the ‘identified’ conductor. The green is the bonding conductor, not ground wire. The neutral by definition is the white wire of a 3 wire system. Neutral and identified are not interchangeable nor is ground and bonding interchangeable. Terminology is important when teaching. So if you are in Canada, the terminology used in this video is incorrect but the theory seems accurate.
Excellent explanation. I've been an electrician for 37 years. What surprises me is when I see a sub panel fed with 4 wires and they still didn't separate the grounds and neutrals. What did they think the purpose of the separate ground and neutral was?
What if you only have 3 wires, (2 hots, 1 neutral) coming from the Meter to the house which is about 85 feet apart. my question is do we still bond the ground and neutral at the house service panel? And does there need to be a ground rod at the house? Thanks
My problem with this is that I installed a 30 amp sub-panel for my RV and there was only one bar in the panel for attaching ground wires and neutral wires. That 's way the panel was manufactured. By what you're saying here I assume the neutral bar should be insulated from the panel body?
No, there are many panels where they are all bonded together, definitely work with a qualified license electrician in your local electrical inspector on this one
Keep in mind that older sub-panels installed before the mid-60’s typically did not have a ground going to the main and combined the neutrals and ground in the sub-panel. These of course can be upgraded by either replacing with a new sub-panel and appropriately sized ground or installing a separate ground bar and ground back to the main.
Apparently, I'm grandfathered in with my older sub panel in the garage. The ground for it is separate, and I have no choice but to connect the neutrals and grounds in it anyhow. It's an older fused based panel with room for only one bank of neutrals and grounds.
i wish someone would cover rural underground triplex install where there is no 4th wire and many outbuildings in series. not every body lives in a modern subdivision.
Im working for a swimming pool contractor and have two situations like this. Service and subpanel bonded at both sides and my foreman won't let me change it. I tried to explain he doesn't understand it. Same thing with the construction manager they just dont understand what it means and say its not our problem.
I cant find answer to my question. I have a 4 pole breaker as my first disconnect, which obviously disconnects the neutral. So should i bond Earth Neutral before or after the 4 Pole breaker?
In a very short story you want to ground all metal parts everywhere so the breaker can't trip this is the wire method they want you to use no exceptions this works best for all faults
I'm a DIY guy and have never fully understood this until now. Thank you so very much! I get it now. However, could you translate that over to portable whole house back up generators say 6500Watts and up? Sometimes bonded, sometimes, not. Why? Little back up generators say 2200Watts (if we are bad guys and back feed one side of our panel with them in an emergency using our manual transfer switch) are not bonded. Why? I figure if you could do such a good job of explaining it for the house, how about the back up generator types ?
Good explanation. Another YT video (I think Electrician U) had a video about those plug-in receptacle testers may not catch every fault. One case he pointed to was a receptacle with a jumper from neutral to ground. OK if you got an old building with no ground wire, don't do this! I talked to another electrician about this jumpered receptacle, he has seen this a few times in his career. Yikes!
Great info. Do have a video explaining the connection to ground rods and grounding to gas and hot/cold water pipes? As I understand, I'm suppose to connect my first point of disconnect (meter base) to the rod rods. Do I connect the gas and hot/cold water pipes to the first point of disconnect, the load center, or either? Also, can you explain bonding between meter base to load center when using PVC vs EMT? Thanks.
Love your detailed reply, but curious: what would ARC breaker do in this scenario ? would it trip or still function (where the ground and neutral were not separated?)
Thank you for sharing and I'm learning a lot as I like to Tinker with solder as I live off-grid and I have wired my own home I appreciate you and thank you again so much for sharing your knowledge
Good explanation, now it becomes very clear why your generator must remove the bonding between ground & Neutral when connected to you panel. So my question would be if you had a small two circuit fiberglass infused PVC sub panel connected with PVC conduit where either way the return would happened with an insulated conductor or isolated ground path would be considered safe?
This is exactly what I need to talk about: If I have a 120v furnace and its "connected to a generator only during outages" generator manual says its bonded that should work and be fine....but if the furnace is still grounded to the house via the casing so that in a sense is connected to the house ground and neutral what happens when power is restored ? any help is much appreciated.
I don’t know what the word “disconnect” means on this context but it seems I just need to separate grounds and neutrals everywhere except at the main panel, where I do connect grounds and neutrals.
QUESTION: If a house has an Off Grid solar inverter, while using the inverter as the power source, the grounding rules are consistent with your video. BUT if the Off Grid Solar inverter, is connected (still not feeding back to grid, only as off grid) to the grid to use grid power to send power to the inverter, to charge the batteries (when not enough sun), then the ground from the grid connected plug, becomes bonded to the inverter ground, and you end up with TWO GROUNDS in Violation of the rules in video, because the inverter in essence is the first cut off when not connected to the grid, and is in essence a sub panel when connected to the grid!!! So what should be done with ground in this instance? 1) Do not connect ground wire in plug from inverter that connects to grid for power? this creates two separate grounded systems and may backfeed in either direction??? not sure 2) create a ground wire disconnect on the inverter, so it only connects to grid ground, when grid connected as a power source, then if unplug from grid, reconnect inverter to the inverter ground??? this seems more plausible - but must not forget when connect or disconnect 3) some other solution you recommend thank you
I appreciate your reply. I dont think there is a definite answer that is acceptible to many, because this would be like connected two separate grid systems together, deciding which should be the master and which should be the sub system is not a clear decision. I think that I am going to go with, bonding the solar ground to the grid ground when it is connected to the grid, and when not connected to the grid, connecting the solar ground to it’s own ground rod. The issue is how to automate, or physically make a mechanical switch that can achieve it, to avoid issues of overlooking having a single ground, or mistakenly having no ground. I hope someone else will reply with their opinions on this.
Hi. Thanks for the video; I'm leaning, been doing, etc. Question: in your perfect scenario where the light bulb is lit with the current and the current passing through back to meter/shutoff where the neutral is bonded ground. Wouldn't current go to ground and neutral back to the source? If that was the case if it went to ground there, then the panel would hot also? I'm trying to clear in my head what happens at he first disconnect.... Thank you again for your video.
I need to bury my service. It will come up to the structure on the east side instead of the west. The existing main panel is inside on the west. If I use a combo, meter socket/ emergency disconnect will I need to change the existing panel in order to separate my ground and neutral, or if needed, and as long as the neutral bar is not attached directly to the "can", can I add a ground bar to accommodate moving the grounds in that existing panel? Thanks and your videos are solid and much appreciated.
Great question, definitely work with a qualified electrician and your electrical inspector. If someone changes the scenario they're going to need to end up 4 feeder wirea if it is not already present and separate the grounds of neutrals while still maintaining bonding the can to the grounds
Interesting how other countries do it. In the UK the neutral and ground are connected at the point of entry to the house. TNS and TNCS. we never connect them in the consumer unit.
Awesome video, thanks! You mentioned that old sub panels could be bonded, and undoing that could cause more trouble than it solves. I’m curious your reasoning in saying that? If one were to hypothetically have a bonded ground and neutral in a sub panel, and moved all grounds and neutrals to their appropriate sides, and removed the bonding rail (idk what it’s called) would that not be a safe way to fix the problem? Thanks again for the video, you da man!
A year and a half into an electrician classroom , no teacher has ever explained it this way, please keep doing it!! 👏🏻
Let's go! Thanks for the feedback!
As an electrician for many years now, I do understand the reasoning behind it, but I just wanted to compliment you on a very easy to understand explanation.
Thank you!
This is hands down one of the best explanations I've seen on this. Usually when this is discussed they only of what you do and not why you are doing it. Good work.
Let's Go!!!
I spent a day studying this concept for a course. You explained it far better in 10 mins. Well done!
This is by far the best explanation for GND vs N
Let's go! Thank you.
This guy is a very good instructor. I didn't have to restart the video. It was completely understood at every point.
Thank you for the kind words and support!
This is a perfect explanation but it’s also important to recognize how dangerous it is to disconnect a ground wire or what happens if a conduit is broken because there would be a potential difference across the disconnected path. In other words never assume that a ground wire is dead because it can get you when you disconnect it.
I have asked licensed electricians plenty of times about the ground / neutral thing and not one could explain it. Now I can tell THEM! Great video.
Right on!
I've watched lots of TH-cam videos trying to understand this concept. I'm a visual person and I also want to know why something works. If I just memorize rules I don't remember it near as well. I can rethink the process you described and refresh my memory. You did a great job! Thank you!
Thank You! I'm glad this helped.
Why is your channel not booming?? You should have more subscribers with the value you offer in each and every video.
Thank you for your kind words, I'm all about slow steady growth, it tends to stick around longer.
Here’s one that baffles me - you have a range or dryer with 3 terminals and ground. The instructions tell you in a 2 wire install (older homes) to connect the neutral and ground on the device together. I was thinking this through, and became real to me when I tried to use a 40-amp gfci breaker and it kept tripping. Often the logic boards or a motor are 120v, so they are technically flowing neutral current through ground (and the shell of the device), and if at some point a fault occurs, or the grounding conductor comes loose, that shell now becomes live. I was taking some lineman courses and they were talking about the requirements for parallel grounding of disconnected lines due the possibility of picking up on emf current simply from being next to an energized wire or the wind blowing. This stuff is serious and we take so much for granted. Sorry for the rant, but there is a lot behind how we ground. God bless and thanks for all your work.
I have a vivid memory from about 1974, when I jumped on a section of chain link outside a neighbors house. My friend pulled me off as I was “stuck” to it. The father had grounded the dryer to the fence (as I recall)
Wow....the pictorial of this video makes it so easy to understand one of the most, if not the absolute, hardest concept of wiring & safety to grasp!
Let's Go!!
This is the best tutorial i have ever seen. You have done an outstanding job explaining this..
Like to THANK the video for clarifying very important topic around everything electric in the house, ground surfaces need only ground connections, so there is NEVER a remote chance for white neutral wire returning any hot AC current to a ground somewhere much further to be connected with metal surfaces of devices because they are/were not separated like they should be at 1st point of disconnect in the local house circuit ...
only like to say I wish I knew ... this as teenager hooking up stuff for self and other people free but no reports of injury thus far ... but perfection is everything ... so with new information in mind everything will be checked, corrected and perfected when building NEW ...
Lets Go! Thank you for your comment, safety is always number one.
Excellent job. Something to remember is that all conductors are also resistors. The human body is also a conductor/resistor and all the metal components in our electrical systems are also conductor/resistors. When you put resistors in parallel in a circuit the total resistance will be less than the lowest resistance value in the circuit.
I learned so much from your videos today, this one in particular. To show my appreciation I'm even watching the ads til the end, well most of them anyways. Thank you very much.
I appreciate that bro! Lets get to it!!
Other than you being 100% correct, this is the best and most through explanation I have ever seen. Great job.
Don
I Think you are intelligent and making good fruits with this channel .
As a EE from long ago, I loved this explanation. I'm not a full-time sparky, but do a fair amount of work on 100+ year old homes and buildings and the amount of knowledge that I've forgotten is high. Never too proud to got back and review the basics. Also, have to check out the NEC and updates even though so much existing stuff is sooooo old. Where I live, NM is verboten so gnd wires don't exist as in the NM world.
It's always good to keep go over stuff again to keep the old mind sharp!
i love dogs. they are the best pets. good info. i was a maintenance electrician my entire career. its a pretty decent job for a young man
I had solar installed several years ago and shortly after I needed to replace my main panel due to main breaker buss issues and to expand the number of circuits. In the process of removing the old panel I found that the neutrals and grounds were still bonded together, which at that point the main panel would have been a sub-panel due to the solar having a main disconnect after the meter head. I was surprised to see that seeing as the solar installation had to be inspected by the NEC/Underwriters inspector before being energized. I separated the grounds and neutrals in the main panel. Thanks for the great video.
Cudos to the creator of this video for a job well done from a seasoned electrician and code inspector. Mike Holt would be proud of you.
Let's go!!
This is so much clearer than Mike Holt tho
Great graphics. Thank you.
You are very welcome
GREAT VIDEO!!! I love the way you used the diagram of current flow. That made it very clear what could happen. You were also using correct electrical units describing current flow for what it is and no words like "power flowing". Nice job all around. Thanks!! Wish you would do video on generator transfer switching.
I personally think NEC should mandate separate ground bus bars for all installations. Neutral bud bar and ground bud bar, then bond them together in main panel only. This makes moving to solar or Generator easier and safer when it isn’t done unknowingly to home owner
Passed my JW test last Friday! 1st attempt
Congratulations!!!!!
That's great bud... im hoping to take my nccer for electrical soon, Hopefully God willing pass it the first time.
excellent explanation. under normal operating conditions, neutral may have current flowing through it (when unbalanced load), while ground wire will never have current under normal conditions.
Thank you Electrical Code Coach! I subbed to your channel and appreciate the knowledge and wisdom you share sir. May GOD bless you!
You have inspired me to raise my skill level and go into being am electrician apprentice and praying more in time.
Thanks. Learned important grounding rules.
The ground wire should be installed as basically an "extra neutral" wire that is connected to the chassis of an appliance instead of the neutral connection on it. It's a safety wire that will safely carry the current back to the breaker box if there is somehow a leak of current from the hot wire, through a component inside the appliance, to it's chassis.
That way, if your grounded body touches an exterior metal part of the appliance, YOU don't become the path for the stray current to return to the breaker box, it rides on the ground wire instead. Electricity ALWAYS follows the path of least resistance, and a properly installed ground wire has much less resistance to the breaker box than the path between your body, the earth, to the breaker box. Therefore, no shock from a leaky appliance if you touch it with a proper ground.
Very enlightening, Thank you
You're very welcome
In workers camp.....a hot/cold shower mixer has a 10 volts AC from those copper plumbings with the concrete in the bathroom. When the earth cable in the water heater was disconnected. Now it's fine. Didn't bother to troubleshoot specially those were old facility.
I’ve watched 10 videos and you explained this perfectly.
Thank you! I am so glad I could help!
If I could Give more than one thumbs up you would get a crap load from me. Best explanation I have ever seen by far. Almost 40 years in the trades. You nailed it.
Thanks for the thumbs up it means a lot! Let's get to it!
Thank you i look for days for these
Awesome explanation. Reminds me of some electrical faults I saw on boats, where the (12v, thank goodness) current was getting drawn the wrong way through the circuit because there was a better ground in an unanticipated place. The ground from one circuit was functioning as the hot for a second circuit. Hard for an amateur like me to wrap my head around sometimes.
Heck, I'm a "pro" and it's hard for me sometimes!
Also not to forget the breaker will not trip, no? Excellent video
Best explanation on TH-cam.
Agree with the others. Best explanation I’ve seen. Now I fully understand the why. Thank you.
Thank you!
Please go over necessary grounding requirements. Code numbers on grounding.
This is soo true. I came off of a outside panel bow to hook up my camper and i would get a light shock, almost like a 12vlt shock and couldnt figure it out. I called in an electrician and it was this very thing.
@7:00 side note, the panel and rigid will only be energized if you bonded the neutral bar to the panel which like youve been saying they should be seperated at every other means of discconect but also unbonded.
Wow much respect coach!! First video I've seen of yours and I immediately subscribed, you're great!!
Thank ypu for explaining the reasoning behind this. It was always a bit of a mystery to me.
Glad it was helpful!
Wow. This explanation is the best I’ve seen.
Thank you, brother!
Electrical engineer here, It does not matter if the ground circuit, wires, conduit etc. carries current. You won't get a shock (unless the ground is faulty and open - which is a separate problem). Separating G/N in subpanels is to stop ground loops from occurring which causes noise, hum and interference in audio, video and computer systems. Its not a safety issue but rather to stop ground loop current flows.
Correct under normal circumstances you would not get shocked, but it is definitely a safety issue. One thing you're not considering is that if there is current flowing on it and you have a ground fault on another circuit it can limit the capacity to clear the ground fault or prevent it completely. Most definitely a safety hazard.
Thanks!
This video really helped to clear out the confusion in my head on this subject.
Thanks Coach.
Making a super clear case for why we need to separate at any point after the first disconnect. Why do we need to connect ground and neutral at first disconnect?
I've always separated the ground from neutral at the breaker panel. The ground goes to the grounding rod, the neutral goes to the neutral side of the breaker panel and then the return side of the powerline. Anything else courts disaster.
Already watched before signing in. Thank you so much for the information. I have wondered for years about this.
Clear concise information. Scary.
very clear explanation !!!!
I've noticed alot of electrical workers do know when and where to bond and separate grounds and neutrals. What I've seen time after time of not bonding a transformer. I've seen lots of licensed electricians think that because of first disconnect being bonded that they didn't have to bond the transformer . I maybe wrong I my explanation ,but I try to explain that it is now a separately derived system and you start all over again.
I Get it!!!! This makes me wonder about my Old welding connector. off panel 2 in the garage. (no neutral) Off my sub panel. 2 BTW my panel 2 has the neutral; disconnected from the case. I worked on 5000 amp DC plants in a Telephone exchange building. We had a PHG (Personal Hazard Ground) and would measure to make sure this PHG had no current on it. Thanks. I had AC electricians tell me "Oh it is just DC" LOL Just subbed.
Very good and explained video, as I’m sturdy for home inspector 👍
AWESOME video! Quick question. I'm looking to do two subpanels in series (garage subpanel connects to shed subpanel for multiple local branch circuits for shed lighting, 240v air compressor circuit, and outlets). Given what you've stated in this video and your out building series, I'm guessing BOTH subpanels need their own ground circuits (separate grounding rods and equipment ground in series from the originating structure) and BOTH subpanels need to have their bonding screws removed?
Great explanation! Subbed!
Let's go!
Not sure about the NEC, but in the CEC(Canadian) the white wire in a 2 wire system is the ‘identified’ conductor. The green is the bonding conductor, not ground wire. The neutral by definition is the white wire of a 3 wire system. Neutral and identified are not interchangeable nor is ground and bonding interchangeable. Terminology is important when teaching. So if you are in Canada, the terminology used in this video is incorrect but the theory seems accurate.
Excellent explanation. I've been an electrician for 37 years. What surprises me is when I see a sub panel fed with 4 wires and they still didn't separate the grounds and neutrals. What did they think the purpose of the separate ground and neutral was?
Thank you!
What if you only have 3 wires, (2 hots, 1 neutral) coming from the Meter to the house which is about 85 feet apart. my question is do we still bond the ground and neutral at the house service panel? And does there need to be a ground rod at the house? Thanks
Right on bro
My problem with this is that I installed a 30 amp sub-panel for my RV and there was only one bar in the panel for attaching ground wires and neutral wires. That 's way the panel was manufactured. By what you're saying here I assume the neutral bar should be insulated from the panel body?
No, there are many panels where they are all bonded together, definitely work with a qualified license electrician in your local electrical inspector on this one
Keep in mind that older sub-panels installed before the mid-60’s typically did not have a ground going to the main and combined the neutrals and ground in the sub-panel. These of course can be upgraded by either replacing with a new sub-panel and appropriately sized ground or installing a separate ground bar and ground back to the main.
Great explination great info
Apparently, I'm grandfathered in with my older sub panel in the garage. The ground for it is separate, and I have no choice but to connect the neutrals and grounds in it anyhow. It's an older fused based panel with room for only one bank of neutrals and grounds.
i wish someone would cover rural underground triplex install where there is no 4th wire and many outbuildings in series. not every body lives in a modern subdivision.
Dang. GREAT peace of mind Now. I watched 3hrs. of videos [ other peoples] But this made it Crystal clear to give me peace of mind .about My ....
I'm so glad I could help!
Been jake leg wiring my whole life....thank you and new sub.
Let's go! Awesome to have you!
Im working for a swimming pool contractor and have two situations like this. Service and subpanel bonded at both sides and my foreman won't let me change it. I tried to explain he doesn't understand it. Same thing with the construction manager they just dont understand what it means and say its not our problem.
Good job 👍
Thank you! Cheers!
I cant find answer to my question. I have a 4 pole breaker as my first disconnect, which obviously disconnects the neutral. So should i bond Earth Neutral before or after the 4 Pole breaker?
Thanks for the info, cleared up some things for me.
is this a correct statement? The neutral bar is connected to the metal frame? like we supposed to? 5:42
At the main G and N go into the same buss bar, at a sub panel G and N go on different buss bars.
Good stuff .very good info
In a very short story you want to ground all metal parts everywhere so the breaker can't trip this is the wire method they want you to use no exceptions this works best for all faults
I'm a DIY guy and have never fully understood this until now. Thank you so very much! I get it now. However, could you translate that over to portable whole house back up generators say 6500Watts and up? Sometimes bonded, sometimes, not. Why?
Little back up generators say 2200Watts (if we are bad guys and back feed one side of our panel with them in an emergency using our manual transfer switch) are not bonded. Why?
I figure if you could do such a good job of explaining it for the house, how about the back up generator types ?
Good explanation. Another YT video (I think Electrician U) had a video about those plug-in receptacle testers may not catch every fault. One case he pointed to was a receptacle with a jumper from neutral to ground. OK if you got an old building with no ground wire, don't do this! I talked to another electrician about this jumpered receptacle, he has seen this a few times in his career. Yikes!
Great info. Do have a video explaining the connection to ground rods and grounding to gas and hot/cold water pipes? As I understand, I'm suppose to connect my first point of disconnect (meter base) to the rod rods. Do I connect the gas and hot/cold water pipes to the first point of disconnect, the load center, or either? Also, can you explain bonding between meter base to load center when using PVC vs EMT? Thanks.
fantastic description, THANK YOU!
You're very welcome!
Love your detailed reply, but curious: what would ARC breaker do in this scenario ? would it trip or still function (where the ground and neutral were not separated?)
Thank you for sharing and I'm learning a lot as I like to Tinker with solder as I live off-grid and I have wired my own home I appreciate you and thank you again so much for sharing your knowledge
Thank you, that was well said.
Good explanation, now it becomes very clear why your generator must remove the bonding between ground & Neutral when connected to you panel. So my question would be if you had a small two circuit fiberglass infused PVC sub panel connected with PVC conduit where either way the return would happened with an insulated conductor or isolated ground path would be considered safe?
This is exactly what I need to talk about: If I have a 120v furnace and its "connected to a generator only during outages" generator manual says its bonded that should work and be fine....but if the furnace is still grounded to the house via the casing so that in a sense is connected to the house ground and neutral what happens when power is restored ? any help is much appreciated.
Great job! Thanks.
Thank you!
Excellent explanations, thank you for making this so clear! I just learned some very important information, nice job, subscribing.
I'm glad this helps. Thank you for the feed back and the sub.
Thanks!
You are very welcome!
Great explanation, thanks!
I don’t know what the word “disconnect” means on this context but it seems I just need to separate grounds and neutrals everywhere except at the main panel, where I do connect grounds and neutrals.
QUESTION: If a house has an Off Grid solar inverter, while using the inverter as the power source, the grounding rules are consistent with your video.
BUT if the Off Grid Solar inverter, is connected (still not feeding back to grid, only as off grid) to the grid to use grid power to send power to the inverter, to charge the batteries (when not enough sun), then the ground from the grid connected plug, becomes bonded to the inverter ground,
and you end up with TWO GROUNDS in Violation of the rules in video, because the inverter in essence is the first cut off when not connected to the grid, and is in essence a sub panel when connected to the grid!!!
So what should be done with ground in this instance?
1) Do not connect ground wire in plug from inverter that connects to grid for power?
this creates two separate grounded systems
and may backfeed in either direction???
not sure
2) create a ground wire disconnect on the inverter, so it only connects to grid ground, when grid connected as a power source, then if unplug from grid, reconnect inverter to the inverter ground???
this seems more plausible - but must not forget when connect or disconnect
3) some other solution you recommend
thank you
Thank you for the question, I would contact a qualified licensed electrician solar installer on this one.
I appreciate your reply.
I dont think there is a definite answer that is acceptible to many, because this would be like connected two separate grid systems together, deciding which should be the master and which should be the sub system is not a clear decision.
I think that I am going to go with, bonding the solar ground to the grid ground when it is connected to the grid, and when not connected to the grid, connecting the solar ground to it’s own ground rod.
The issue is how to automate, or physically make a mechanical switch that can achieve it, to avoid issues of overlooking having a single ground, or mistakenly having no ground.
I hope someone else will reply with their opinions on this.
This was fantastic!
Good video. I understand now!
Hi. Thanks for the video; I'm leaning, been doing, etc. Question: in your perfect scenario where the light bulb is lit with the current and the current passing through back to meter/shutoff where the neutral is bonded ground. Wouldn't current go to ground and neutral back to the source? If that was the case if it went to ground there, then the panel would hot also? I'm trying to clear in my head what happens at he first disconnect.... Thank you again for your video.
great video
I need to bury my service. It will come up to the structure on the east side instead of the west. The existing main panel is inside on the west. If I use a combo, meter socket/ emergency disconnect will I need to change the existing panel in order to separate my ground and neutral, or if needed, and as long as the neutral bar is not attached directly to the "can", can I add a ground bar to accommodate moving the grounds in that existing panel? Thanks and your videos are solid and much appreciated.
Great question, definitely work with a qualified electrician and your electrical inspector. If someone changes the scenario they're going to need to end up 4 feeder wirea if it is not already present and separate the grounds of neutrals while still maintaining bonding the can to the grounds
Interesting how other countries do it. In the UK the neutral and ground are connected at the point of entry to the house. TNS and TNCS. we never connect them in the consumer unit.
Awesome video, thanks! You mentioned that old sub panels could be bonded, and undoing that could cause more trouble than it solves. I’m curious your reasoning in saying that?
If one were to hypothetically have a bonded ground and neutral in a sub panel, and moved all grounds and neutrals to their appropriate sides, and removed the bonding rail (idk what it’s called) would that not be a safe way to fix the problem?
Thanks again for the video, you da man!