I was talking with some electrician friends of mine recently and we all agree you are the man. Most of us have been watching you for years and we are still here Brother. Might not comment often but watch your channel religiously. Thank you for all that you share and we benefit hugely from!
As a Hispanic man, and a dyslexic (a) and dyscalculic (a) learner, and as a future Electrician Helper. I appreciate this visual presentation. My brain can usually handle 5, 10, or 15 minutes of learning at a time. The graphics or visual aids really helps. Thank you brother Dustin.
There is: *1)* grounding; *2)* circuit protective conductor (CPC); *3)* Equipotential bonding. These are all separate with different functions but all meet at the main grounding terminal of the system. These three use the same coloured wiring creating confusion. *Different coloured cable for each of the three functions would make matters easier.* *1). Grounding.* Connecting a system to the ground is for lightning strikes and static electricity. Lightning always wants to get to the ground, so if it hits electrical equipment it has a path to ground. *2). CPC.* is a parallel neutral (N) conductor with no current running through it in normal operation - It only protects the circuit it is in - an e.g. is a receptacle circuit. If the line (L) is in contact with the CPC for any reason electricity runs back to the point where the cpc and N join which is before the protective device in the main panel. Conditions will arise were, *i)* the L & N will be out of balance, or *ii)* the CPC will draw too much current, or *iii)* there is a fault condition - after the protective device so it will activate and trip, isolating the circuit. *3). Equipotential bonding.* Is connecting all the metal parts of a house together, e.g., water and gas pipes - that do not carry electrical current - to the electrical ground point. This is to ensure if a metal part becomes live *all* metal parts become live to reduce/eliminate electrical potential between the metal parts. If you are holding one pipe with your right hand and another pipe with your left, both are at 0v. If one pipe become 240v and the other stays at 0v electricity will run through your body maybe killing you. If both pipes become 240v at the same time (zero potential between the two), you will not be killed.
The grounding electrode and grounding electrode conductor are part of one system with the main job of capping the the voltages produced from induced currents due to near by lightning (building wiring is a big inductor to emp) or inductive load switching. They also cap the voltages possible if the neutral from the transformer (really a combined neutral and grounding conductor) were to be broken. If an induced current hit an open switch, it will see that as infinite resistance and the voltage would rise until it arced over or the energy dissipated in the wire. (with electronics surge suppressors are used to open a circuit from hot to neutral at the cap limit voltage). With the grounding electrode, the size of the voltage spike on the neutral is capped by the resistive path from the building electrode and the electrode at the transformer/pole. It prevents arcing through the insulation of motor windings, but also at weaknesses in the wire insulation the could let an arc happen through something flammable and causing a fire. Then it was decided to do equipment grounding, which is another loop of wire that could develop induced current and besides bonding the neutral to the grounding electrode made the voltage potential essentially zero compared to the earth making it safe to use single pole switching on 120vac circuits.
Great video, Dustin! Grounding and bonding is SO IMPORTANT to understand yet so often misunderstood. I encourage anyone uncertain on this subject to read the definitions of these terms in article 100 before going through article 250. Believe me, once you understand grounding and bonding the money will come.
i wish i worked with dustin in the field my jman gets an attitude whenever i ask something. I think literally everything i’ve learned has been watching videos on youtube thanks man
Probably has an attitude because he doesn't really understand things himself. So the attitude is a way to discourage you from asking. Find yourself someone better to learn from.
I feel u My jman didn’t “teach” me as much as just give me tasks I’ve spent hours on TH-cam to actually understand what the heck I’m actually doing and how to do it better He’s super old school so he sometimes even showed me the wrong way to do things Things that will work but potentially be dangerous
Hey man. This is so helpful. Thank you. I am studying this topic right now and seeing your explanation of these terms really cleared up the things I’m reading about. I watch tons of your stuff and would definitely watch any expansion on grounding and bonding topics. Thanks for what you do.
The system neutral is even more interesting in the distribution system… and even more critical for protection and safety. We routinely refer to the distribution system neutral as the multi-grounded neutral… it gets bonded to grounds throughout the distribution system at equipment locations. Confusion between the terms bonding and grounding also exists in distribution circles. Mitigating step and touch potential hazards is a big ordeal and bonding for the purpose of establishing an equal potential zone gets confused with grounding especially when the zone is on or under the ground… and in some situations it’s better to isolate than to bond depending on specifics. And then theres those pesky clauses in the code that demand that you bond to things in close proximity but then that just extends the hazard that also must be mitigated, so you try like hell to separate… but then sometimes there’s no room for that… and… and… and… Lots of hair pulling. Cheers!
Oh my gosh! I am having such a huge problem understanding my situation. With 1 meter and 1 panel, no problem, I get it. Here is my situation. 1 - 320 amp meter, 2 - 200 amp disconnects and 1 - 200 amp panel for metal building shop and 1 - 200 amp panel for house (yet to be built). I have photos, but I can't paste them here. I have the meter with a 200 amp disconnect on each side. These are mounted to my new shop which is a metal building. On the other side of the meter inside the shop, I have the 200 amp panel. My question is on bonding and grounding. How do I bond all the panels together and where does the GEC connect to. I know the panel inside will have a seperate grounding bus (on order), but the rest is driving me nuts and I can't find anyone with a setup like this and I don't know why because I would think it's pretty common. I have talked with the local building inspector, but he is young and I'm not sure if he really knows what he is talking about or if I'm just ignorant. Drawings of the wiring would be great if you could do that.
You should do a video or two on 0-10 volt light dimming. I'm building my own home and want to use it on my LED lighting and there is VERY little on TH-cam. Just learned there are certain LED fixtures that are 0-10V controlled and also Romex with the control wires included.
I found this video very informative. (It clicked when you drew the multiple sub panels) I know this months old, so I hope you can see and hopefully respond. I have a new 150 amp main panel. Im getting ready to wire and after watching your video a question comes to mind. In my area we need to have a meter box with a disconnect. The one I have purchased has a 200 amp breaker/disconnect with slots for a few breakers I could use for instance for a 50 amp sub panel. So having said all that, is my main panel in the house now actually a 150 amp sub panel and the neutral bonding now would be done at 200 amp meter disconnect since it is actually a disconnect breaker box all in one?
great vid could go on for hours about grounding bonding and neutrals, love it. Grounding electrodes and grounding electrode conductors video? primary electrode supplementary electrode.
Hi Dustin: Had to watch this video twice... um.... ok... three times... but the light bulb finally came on. Your ability to explain complex "nomenclature" and boil it down to a more digestible format (for my pea-brain) is rare. Thanks for putting all the work into making these videos.
QUESTION: What are your thoughts on using a bonding wire/clamps to a 10 foot ground rod or two separate 8 foot rods for a large boat and or aluminum trailer with four wheels? Would you make it worse?!?
This would essentially be equipotential bonding for the boat/trailer. You would prevent the boat/trailer from developing potential (voltage) with respect to the earth.
They're just for reducing noise on the EGC. Very sensitive electronics may sometimes benefit, but other solutions may also be needed such as proper shielding, isolation, and filtering within the equipment as well as eliminating ground loops
So, when the equipment grounding conductor is bonded to the neutral bus bar at the service panel and there is a fault.. wouldn’t the current want to go to earth rather than back to the transformer through the neutral? Or is the resistance to earth [for that current] more than the pathway to neutral, so then it goes back to the substation through the neutral instead of back to earth?
Since understanding the difference between all of these, I've thought that the EGC should have been called the "Equipment Fault Conductor" or something similar to make it clear that the intent of the conductor has nothing to do with grounding, but everything to do with clearing faults. Having the word "grounding" in the name just seems needlessly confusing. Code could then state that the EFC "shall be grounded".
EGCs do other things as well like clear any buildup of charges in the system or raceways. Like in some conditions like explosive areas the pipes must be grounded to prevent any static discharge which might ignite vapors. EGCs are also important when dealing with small control components and data junk because they’re all so sensitive to charges. The EGC I believe can also absorb some of the induced voltage from the other phases around it in raceways as well if I’m not mistaken.
The heating elements on standard residential water heaters are 240Volt rated. The controls are 240 volt as well. No 120 volts needed, no neutral. Small 6-12 gallon water heaters like in RV or for one sink are 120 Volt elements and controls.
@12:08 you cannot displace energy, you are expanding it gradience. Electricity is trying to return to its source. It will take all available pathways. Like you said the system would work just fine. I think grounding rods are silly and we are just following old ways. Love your channel
It's said that a neutral carries the in balanced load. Well, say you have a panel that has no equipment ground, only an isolated neutral bar. So you have a receptacle circuit, what if someone runs a green and white from neutral bar and a hot color from a cb to the receptacle? Lands the hot on hot screw, white on neutral screw and then bonds the ground screw with the green. Doesn't that cause a potential for arc? If worked live. Or even unplugging a cord?
I have service line coming in from the Meter Disconnect box with 3 conductors, Two Hots and a Neutral going into a Sub panel for the House. (I don’t know why they put the main disconnect meter box Way out at the road but nevertheless, that’s its set up.) I’m installing a Generac Transfer switch on to the sub panel feeding the house. I have been reading about separating the grounding wires from the neutral in the service panel. My question is since there isn’t a second ground going from the sub panel to the main disconnects meter should I install a grounding rod at the service panel connected straight to the grounding bus bar. Keep in mind the neutrals are bonded inside the Generac transfer switch. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
I would put it this way: Earth/Ground is MERELY there to reference the circuit voltage to 0v. Which then provides a SAFETY element for living humans. No circuit needs an earth, unless you want to reference it TO EARTH. You could run an entire system ON TOP OF (IE 100VDC) a large DC voltage. IE all of the neutrals and “grounds” would have 100V on them. The system will work fine! But it will also be deadly to anyone who touches the system enclosures. Therefore, we use earth instead AKA 0V.
So you have in your kitchen a GFCI receptacle, and a few feet down you have what looks like a regular receptacle, but it is connected to the GFCI. So essentially, the regular receptacle is bonded to the GFCI receptacle? It’s not that it is connected so much as it is bonded?
No, bonding refers to grounding wires. You bond metal conductors to the grounding system. Bonding is done to avoid potential differences between metal surfaces.
@@darriuscole8544 yes sir..I understand that...but what if i didn't ground the nutral in transformer side and short the phase and earth in load side... Will it be a short circuit?
I agree with you that the main neutral bus bar doesn't really need to be attached to a ground rod in order for the fault to trip the circuit breaker. So why ground it to earth at all?
It's for static discharge. Surges on the lines, lightning, etc. It gives surges a place to discharge. Also, some systems are sensitive and need ground rods for operational reasons (HAM radio guys like having a good local ground because it helps eliminate electrical noise). For example, have you ever listened to AM radio in your car and heard the engine noise in the speakers? Yeah, that could be eliminated with ground rods (but not really practical in a car). So ground rods at the residence are for these things, not really "safety" or clearing faults. Mike Holt has discussed this many times. Holt did an experiment where he showed that a ground rod won't clear a fault on a standard 15 amps circuit. It won't because it was never intended to do so.
Hey Dustin, you should honestly help write some of the code because the language you use in your videos is so much more understandable and less arcane and complicated than the language already in the NEC.
Not an electrician, but a 15 amp circuit should have 80% max load, so that would be 12 amps. When a device starts up there is a current spike to power things up, then it levels off to it's rating. It can trip the breaker sometimes when starting. Look at the amperage rating on your compressor, and see if there are any other receptacles with plugged in appliances, etc. and remove them if possible to lower the total branch circuit amperage. All the amperage combined should ideally be below 12 A. You may need new higher gauge wiring (safety concern) run to the outlet and a new circuit breaker. There are other possibilities, more difficult to trouble shoot and beyond explaining on a YT comment, but the above is the most likely. Your electrician will let you know what needs to be done, it is not about you asking him what to do.
Many years ago, when we had a main frame computer installed at a bank , we were required to have an 'isolated ground'. Does that mean it was not bonded to the neutral and why did we need to have it?
It was bonded to the neutral at the panel, but not to any other metal parts such as boxes, enclosures, raceways, screws, the building, etc. The goal is to reduce some noise on the ground to protect sensitive equipment.
Thanks for trying to make this info. Understandable. You are amazing at explaining everything, even though some things are beyond my understanding. Always enjoy your teaching.
VALUE ENGINEERING: If we could make the majority of our electrical equipment enclosures out of, lets say fiberglass, then a lot of this grounding and bonding would not be necessary. Back in the day (early days of electricity usage), wooden boxes were used to house electrical parts and devices. But as electrical usage became more mainstream and in-demand, new cost effective means had to be developed. Metal, being in high abundance, became the norm to house electrical parts and devices. But metal conducts electricity, which makes electrical usage less safe. So that is where things like (EGC) and (MBJ) came into the picture. System Grounding, found mostly in a WYE distribution system, primarily establishes Voltage stabilization, under normal operating conditions, and also helps to bleed off lightning strikes and surges.
@@dougsiskin1070 Non-metallic enclosures can be made (special order), but it has to be able to withstand the environment and conditions where it will be installed. Fiberglass or hard plastic.
12:10 important to note that the grounding electrodes generally don't dissipate enough energy to fully protect from faults. For instance, if you ran an EGC directly to a ground rod, it would do almost nothing to clear a ground fault.
Correct. Mike Holt has discussed this at length. He even filmed an experiment where he drove a ground rod to NEC specs and then ran a fault current through it. The rod did not trip a standard 15 amp breaker. It won't because it was never intended to do so. NEC doesn't require ground rods for fault clearing. They require them more for quality of life things (like giving static buildup a place to go). This doesn't matter for most home uses, but it could in sensitive industrial systems.
Okay, it’s been a while since I read/heard this (so I may be wrong), but here goes anyway. It seems like somewhere, an electrician said that you should NOT bond neutral to your grounding conductor; this was because any normally functioning load, sending power back to the panel via the neutral, would also be energizing the grounding conductors through the whole system. And that would be a problem since all metallic boxes (outlet/switch boxes, junction boxes, etc) must be bonded to the grounding conductor to provide a path for fault current; if ground is bonded to neutral, and potentially energized by a running load, then that produces a shock hazard. Or am I remembering something incorrectly there?
The idea is that you shouldn't bond ground to neutral anywhere except the main bonding jumper. You need that single bond at the panel for the equipment ground to do its job. But you are correct that there should be no other ground-neutral bond, otherwise, yes, the grounding conductor that is in parallel with the neutral will carry some of the neutral current, and a hot to neutral fault can energize other grounded metal parts in affected portions of the system.
That is mostly nonsense. Sure there can be very small stray currents but no cases are energized unless the neutral breaks. Do not listen to random people. In the US system one must bond the ground and the neutral. It is not safe if you do not. There are countries where that is not done but they solve the problems with other methods, essentially house wide RCD protection.
U-Ground Outlet, as a kid when 3-wire receptacles first came on the market they were called "U-Ground Outlets" anyone know the history of the term and why it went away.
Well is not that unusual to have problems if the neutral in the main breaker is not grounded, here in Mexico We call it Floating Neutral and the whole system goes nuts because the current is trying to find the lowest potential point and lights goes on and of everywhere as if there were ghosts in the building :D
v dope Can anyone weigh in on... say I'm doing low volt shit and my secondary bus bar eventually goes to the PBB. (The primary bus bar that I assume is connected to neutral as well as the grounding rod). I suppose that whatever energy (static or whatever) builds on my system just goes to the rod?
Hi! Apprentice here, I got home from work today after doing a bunch of cable tray bonding and grounding and was thinking to myself “Man I really wanna understand the difference clearly between these two.” My phone must have been listening to my thoughts because this video popped up first thing lol!
why would you not explain that all neutrals are grounded conductors but not all grounded conductors are neutrals depending on system? 120/208Y and 120/240 have true neutral whereas corner grounded delta does not.
PLEASE HELP… When considering Neutral Ground Bonding in a Completely OFF GRID system… If instead of a an electric company grid transformer supplying electricity as the source of power, we now consider a completely OFF GRID solar outbuilding, as the originating source of power (some distance from service structure where a main service panel will be the Main Panel). 1) Do we treat the outbuilding (power provider) as if it were essentially the same as a grid power supply transformer? 2) Do we create a neutral ground bond in the outbuilding (power provider equipment), as if it were the pole transformer, since the source of power is generated there? 3) Do we create a neutral ground bond at the Main Service Panel, located in the service structure, (power consumer structure) not near the power generating out building (power providing structure)? 4) if there is a NG bond at the power producing outbuilding, (power provider source), and a NG bond at the Main Service Panel (consumer first point of entry) in the service building (consumer), if a short circuit or ground fault occurs, a) WILL IT TRIP THE BREAKER in the Main Service Panel located in the consumer service building? b) will it trip the breaker in the power outbuilding (power provider source) that feeds the main service panel in the service building? c) should each building have their own ground rods? 5) In the power producing outbuilding can the DC side and the AC side, use the same Ground rod? or will this create an issue? This is a tough one to figure out. I have watched tons of videos but nothing explains what to do when you are the electric provider in one building and in a separate building you are an electric consumer. Thank you Need help on this one!
8:50 Wrong. A NEUTRAL HAS TO BE BROUGHT TO GROUND, Grounded, Earthed. If not, it's not a neutral. and if its supposed to be a neutral, like in a 120/240V single phase or 120/208V 3phase system, a non-grounded neutral can cause voltages fluctuations and/or damage to equipment
Electrical systems worked just fine with no grounding electrode or equipment grounds for decades before it became required. Question, is the voltage truly fluctuating or is it possible that there is no bonded point of reference for the electric multi meter to measure from?
I was talking with some electrician friends of mine recently and we all agree you are the man. Most of us have been watching you for years and we are still here Brother. Might not comment often but watch your channel religiously. Thank you for all that you share and we benefit hugely from!
As a Hispanic man, and a dyslexic (a) and dyscalculic (a) learner, and as a future Electrician Helper. I appreciate this visual presentation. My brain can usually handle 5, 10, or 15 minutes of learning at a time. The graphics or visual aids really helps. Thank you brother Dustin.
There is:
*1)* grounding;
*2)* circuit protective conductor (CPC);
*3)* Equipotential bonding.
These are all separate with different functions but all meet at the main grounding terminal of the system. These three use the same coloured wiring creating confusion. *Different coloured cable for each of the three functions would make matters easier.*
*1). Grounding.* Connecting a system to the ground is for lightning strikes and static electricity. Lightning always wants to get to the ground, so if it hits electrical equipment it has a path to ground.
*2). CPC.* is a parallel neutral (N) conductor with no current running through it in normal operation - It only protects the circuit it is in - an e.g. is a receptacle circuit. If the line (L) is in contact with the CPC for any reason electricity runs back to the point where the cpc and N join which is before the protective device in the main panel. Conditions will arise were, *i)* the L & N will be out of balance, or *ii)* the CPC will draw too much current, or *iii)* there is a fault condition - after the protective device so it will activate and trip, isolating the circuit.
*3). Equipotential bonding.* Is connecting all the metal parts of a house together, e.g., water and gas pipes - that do not carry electrical current - to the electrical ground point. This is to ensure if a metal part becomes live *all* metal parts become live to reduce/eliminate electrical potential between the metal parts. If you are holding one pipe with your right hand and another pipe with your left, both are at 0v. If one pipe become 240v and the other stays at 0v electricity will run through your body maybe killing you. If both pipes become 240v at the same time (zero potential between the two), you will not be killed.
The grounding electrode and grounding electrode conductor are part of one system with the main job of capping the the voltages produced from induced currents due to near by lightning (building wiring is a big inductor to emp) or inductive load switching. They also cap the voltages possible if the neutral from the transformer (really a combined neutral and grounding conductor) were to be broken. If an induced current hit an open switch, it will see that as infinite resistance and the voltage would rise until it arced over or the energy dissipated in the wire. (with electronics surge suppressors are used to open a circuit from hot to neutral at the cap limit voltage). With the grounding electrode, the size of the voltage spike on the neutral is capped by the resistive path from the building electrode and the electrode at the transformer/pole. It prevents arcing through the insulation of motor windings, but also at weaknesses in the wire insulation the could let an arc happen through something flammable and causing a fire.
Then it was decided to do equipment grounding, which is another loop of wire that could develop induced current and besides bonding the neutral to the grounding electrode made the voltage potential essentially zero compared to the earth making it safe to use single pole switching on 120vac circuits.
Great video, Dustin! Grounding and bonding is SO IMPORTANT to understand yet so often misunderstood. I encourage anyone uncertain on this subject to read the definitions of these terms in article 100 before going through article 250. Believe me, once you understand grounding and bonding the money will come.
i wish i worked with dustin in the field my jman gets an attitude whenever i ask something. I think literally everything i’ve learned has been watching videos on youtube thanks man
Probably has an attitude because he doesn't really understand things himself. So the attitude is a way to discourage you from asking.
Find yourself someone better to learn from.
I feel u
My jman didn’t “teach” me as much as just give me tasks
I’ve spent hours on TH-cam to actually understand what the heck I’m actually doing and how to do it better
He’s super old school so he sometimes even showed me the wrong way to do things
Things that will work but potentially be dangerous
You are most definitely the best at explaining things so it is easy to understand
Thank you Dustin Brother
Hey man. This is so helpful. Thank you. I am studying this topic right now and seeing your explanation of these terms really cleared up the things I’m reading about. I watch tons of your stuff and would definitely watch any expansion on grounding and bonding topics. Thanks for what you do.
Discord 😊
Discord
Great job...and Yes, it gets very confusing when explaining it to someone...
Do a video on last/first point of disconnect for secondary power sources.
The intro was super clean
Your explanations are brilliant , very grateful for the knowledge
Thank you for the simple explanations
The system neutral is even more interesting in the distribution system… and even more critical for protection and safety.
We routinely refer to the distribution system neutral as the multi-grounded neutral… it gets bonded to grounds throughout the distribution system at equipment locations. Confusion between the terms bonding and grounding also exists in distribution circles. Mitigating step and touch potential hazards is a big ordeal and bonding for the purpose of establishing an equal potential zone gets confused with grounding especially when the zone is on or under the ground… and in some situations it’s better to isolate than to bond depending on specifics. And then theres those pesky clauses in the code that demand that you bond to things in close proximity but then that just extends the hazard that also must be mitigated, so you try like hell to separate… but then sometimes there’s no room for that… and… and… and…
Lots of hair pulling.
Cheers!
Excellent work. Thank you!
So if my kids misbehave, am i grounding or are they grounded? And what if my wife remains neutral in the situation?
Such a great teacher!! Love your videos! Thank you 🙏
Oh my gosh! I am having such a huge problem understanding my situation. With 1 meter and 1 panel, no problem, I get it. Here is my situation. 1 - 320 amp meter, 2 - 200 amp disconnects and 1 - 200 amp panel for metal building shop and 1 - 200 amp panel for house (yet to be built). I have photos, but I can't paste them here. I have the meter with a 200 amp disconnect on each side. These are mounted to my new shop which is a metal building. On the other side of the meter inside the shop, I have the 200 amp panel. My question is on bonding and grounding. How do I bond all the panels together and where does the GEC connect to. I know the panel inside will have a seperate grounding bus (on order), but the rest is driving me nuts and I can't find anyone with a setup like this and I don't know why because I would think it's pretty common. I have talked with the local building inspector, but he is young and I'm not sure if he really knows what he is talking about or if I'm just ignorant. Drawings of the wiring would be great if you could do that.
Yes!!! Great stuff! Love the channel and love the way you simplify stuff. Thanks man!
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Thanks a lot man you really help me with your explacations. GOOD JOB !!
This guys command of the codebook is impressive
most misunderstood topic. your video is great🎉
You should do a video or two on 0-10 volt light dimming. I'm building my own home and want to use it on my LED lighting and there is VERY little on TH-cam. Just learned there are certain LED fixtures that are 0-10V controlled and also Romex with the control wires included.
Good suggestion
very nice explanation. thank you
Excellent info ⚡
Great video clip. Thank you!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Hope to keep seeing your content.
Love your content.Very knowledgeable
I found this video very informative. (It clicked when you drew the multiple sub panels)
I know this months old, so I hope you can see and hopefully respond. I have a new 150 amp main panel. Im getting ready to wire and after watching your video a question comes to mind. In my area we need to have a meter box with a disconnect. The one I have purchased has a 200 amp breaker/disconnect with slots for a few breakers I could use for instance for a 50 amp sub panel. So having said all that, is my main panel in the house now actually a 150 amp sub panel and the neutral bonding now would be done at 200 amp meter disconnect since it is actually a disconnect breaker box all in one?
Question for ya.
Would removing a section of copper piping and replacing it with pex eliminate the bonding/grounding of the house?
great vid could go on for hours about grounding bonding and neutrals, love it. Grounding electrodes and grounding electrode conductors video? primary electrode supplementary electrode.
Why don’t main bonding jumpers energize the ground bar via the neutral?
Extremely helpful video. Thanks!
Should I be getting continuity between the neutral bus’s-bar and ground buss bar/ metal enclosure in a sub panel?
Yes
Well explained.
Hey, Electrician U, you should gives us tour of all your Electrical Books.
Hi Dustin: Had to watch this video twice... um.... ok... three times... but the light bulb finally came on. Your ability to explain complex "nomenclature" and boil it down to a more digestible format (for my pea-brain) is rare. Thanks for putting all the work into making these videos.
Thank you again brother
QUESTION: What are your thoughts on using a bonding wire/clamps to a 10 foot ground rod or two separate 8 foot rods for a large boat and or aluminum trailer with four wheels? Would you make it worse?!?
This would essentially be equipotential bonding for the boat/trailer. You would prevent the boat/trailer from developing potential (voltage) with respect to the earth.
I appreciate your channel
Watched it 3 times. Did you do it in one take? Or do you have an Oscar level video editor? Wow.
I learned more here than a $150 Grounding and Bonding Class. 🙃
Thank you, I have learned a lot.
As always great job. (Except for the parallel Neutral from Meter)
Please do a video explaining the real need for IG outlets.
Isolated ground outlets / orange outlets
They're just for reducing noise on the EGC. Very sensitive electronics may sometimes benefit, but other solutions may also be needed such as proper shielding, isolation, and filtering within the equipment as well as eliminating ground loops
Thanks for explaining. Love your videos.
Boy You made that clear! thanks....
So, when the equipment grounding conductor is bonded to the neutral bus bar at the service panel and there is a fault.. wouldn’t the current want to go to earth rather than back to the transformer through the neutral? Or is the resistance to earth [for that current] more than the pathway to neutral, so then it goes back to the substation through the neutral instead of back to earth?
Since understanding the difference between all of these, I've thought that the EGC should have been called the "Equipment Fault Conductor" or something similar to make it clear that the intent of the conductor has nothing to do with grounding, but everything to do with clearing faults. Having the word "grounding" in the name just seems needlessly confusing. Code could then state that the EFC "shall be grounded".
I think this is a great idea! 👍
Not a good idea.. there are other reasons for using the grounding conductor, such as to divert overvoltages in a surge protector.
The EGC is only helpful in clearing some faults. It does not protect against all faults, such as arc faults, high impedance junctions, and so on.
EGCs do other things as well like clear any buildup of charges in the system or raceways. Like in some conditions like explosive areas the pipes must be grounded to prevent any static discharge which might ignite vapors. EGCs are also important when dealing with small control components and data junk because they’re all so sensitive to charges. The EGC I believe can also absorb some of the induced voltage from the other phases around it in raceways as well if I’m not mistaken.
its like a redundancy. its like having an extra off button a hardware off button.
I wish you were my mentor. I need you in my life right now.
Good information well done 👍🏻
Can you please tell me what whiteboard you are using
Good time to be an electrician
What is the smallest wires can used in light fixture? In nyc
Hey Justin. Why dont an electric water heater need a neutral? But needs 2 hot wires?
The heating elements on standard residential water heaters are 240Volt rated. The controls are 240 volt as well. No 120 volts needed, no neutral. Small 6-12 gallon water heaters like in RV or for one sink are 120 Volt elements and controls.
@12:08 you cannot displace energy, you are expanding it gradience. Electricity is trying to return to its source. It will take all available pathways. Like you said the system would work just fine. I think grounding rods are silly and we are just following old ways. Love your channel
Clear as mud
Can you make a video about smoke detector requirement in residential please?
Gardening ❤
so helpful!
So confused……do you have a vid where you start from the beginning, like Genesis? 😂
It's said that a neutral carries the in balanced load. Well, say you have a panel that has no equipment ground, only an isolated neutral bar. So you have a receptacle circuit, what if someone runs a green and white from neutral bar and a hot color from a cb to the receptacle? Lands the hot on hot screw, white on neutral screw and then bonds the ground screw with the green. Doesn't that cause a potential for arc? If worked live. Or even unplugging a cord?
I have service line coming in from the Meter Disconnect box with 3 conductors, Two Hots and a Neutral going into a Sub panel for the House. (I don’t know why they put the main disconnect meter box Way out at the road but nevertheless, that’s its set up.) I’m installing a Generac Transfer switch on to the sub panel feeding the house. I have been reading about separating the grounding wires from the neutral in the service panel. My question is since there isn’t a second ground going from the sub panel to the main disconnects meter should I install a grounding rod at the service panel connected straight to the grounding bus bar. Keep in mind the neutrals are bonded inside the Generac transfer switch. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
I would put it this way:
Earth/Ground is MERELY there to reference the circuit voltage to 0v. Which then provides a SAFETY element for living humans.
No circuit needs an earth, unless you want to reference it TO EARTH.
You could run an entire system ON TOP OF (IE 100VDC) a large DC voltage. IE all of the neutrals and “grounds” would have 100V on them.
The system will work fine! But it will also be deadly to anyone who touches the system enclosures. Therefore, we use earth instead AKA 0V.
So you have in your kitchen a GFCI receptacle, and a few feet down you have what looks like a regular receptacle, but it is connected to the GFCI. So essentially, the regular receptacle is bonded to the GFCI receptacle? It’s not that it is connected so much as it is bonded?
No, bonding refers to grounding wires. You bond metal conductors to the grounding system. Bonding is done to avoid potential differences between metal surfaces.
Hi sir...just a doubt.. If the transformer side nutral is not grounded, will the earth work as return path in equipment side...
NO! The earth is never acceptable as a return path.
@@darriuscole8544 yes sir..I understand that...but what if i didn't ground the nutral in transformer side and short the phase and earth in load side... Will it be a short circuit?
What about running a separate ground rod for a sub panel in a detached garage?
Nothing wrong with that.
Lightning protection. It is required.
I agree with you that the main neutral bus bar doesn't really need to be attached to a ground rod in order for the fault to trip the circuit breaker. So why ground it to earth at all?
It's for static discharge. Surges on the lines, lightning, etc. It gives surges a place to discharge. Also, some systems are sensitive and need ground rods for operational reasons (HAM radio guys like having a good local ground because it helps eliminate electrical noise). For example, have you ever listened to AM radio in your car and heard the engine noise in the speakers? Yeah, that could be eliminated with ground rods (but not really practical in a car).
So ground rods at the residence are for these things, not really "safety" or clearing faults. Mike Holt has discussed this many times. Holt did an experiment where he showed that a ground rod won't clear a fault on a standard 15 amps circuit. It won't because it was never intended to do so.
Hey Dustin, you should honestly help write some of the code because the language you use in your videos is so much more understandable and less arcane and complicated than the language already in the NEC.
I have a commercial air compressor, trips my 15 amp circuit outlets. What should I ask an electrician to do?
Not an electrician, but a 15 amp circuit should have 80% max load, so that would be 12 amps. When a device starts up there is a current spike to power things up, then it levels off to it's rating. It can trip the breaker sometimes when starting. Look at the amperage rating on your compressor, and see if there are any other receptacles with plugged in appliances, etc. and remove them if possible to lower the total branch circuit amperage. All the amperage combined should ideally be below 12 A. You may need new higher gauge wiring (safety concern) run to the outlet and a new circuit breaker. There are other possibilities, more difficult to trouble shoot and beyond explaining on a YT comment, but the above is the most likely.
Your electrician will let you know what needs to be done, it is not about you asking him what to do.
Why is it no possible to have ground and neutral in same bar in subpanels?
Many years ago, when we had a main frame computer installed at a bank , we were required to have an 'isolated ground'. Does that mean it was not bonded to the neutral and why did we need to have it?
It was bonded to the neutral at the panel, but not to any other metal parts such as boxes, enclosures, raceways, screws, the building, etc. The goal is to reduce some noise on the ground to protect sensitive equipment.
@@benchociej2435 Thank you as I always wanted to know.
You could be the next Mike Holt.
Thanks for trying to make this info. Understandable. You are amazing at explaining everything, even though some things are beyond my understanding. Always enjoy your teaching.
VALUE ENGINEERING:
If we could make the majority of our electrical equipment enclosures out of, lets say fiberglass, then a lot of this grounding and bonding would not be necessary.
Back in the day (early days of electricity usage), wooden boxes were used to house electrical parts and devices. But as electrical usage became more mainstream and
in-demand, new cost effective means had to be developed. Metal, being in high abundance, became the norm to house electrical parts and devices. But metal conducts
electricity, which makes electrical usage less safe. So that is where things like (EGC) and (MBJ) came into the picture. System Grounding, found mostly in a WYE distribution
system, primarily establishes Voltage stabilization, under normal operating conditions, and also helps to bleed off lightning strikes and surges.
Are there non metal electrical panels?
@@dougsiskin1070 Non-metallic enclosures can be made (special order), but it has to be able to withstand the environment and conditions where it will be installed. Fiberglass or hard plastic.
Sure! That's why plastic ("double insulated") power tools don't need a ground
I wish they still called them all bonding jumpers, would have made more sense to me day one when I went to trade school.
Just subscribed definitely need to watch more of your videos!
12:10 important to note that the grounding electrodes generally don't dissipate enough energy to fully protect from faults. For instance, if you ran an EGC directly to a ground rod, it would do almost nothing to clear a ground fault.
Correct. Mike Holt has discussed this at length. He even filmed an experiment where he drove a ground rod to NEC specs and then ran a fault current through it. The rod did not trip a standard 15 amp breaker. It won't because it was never intended to do so. NEC doesn't require ground rods for fault clearing. They require them more for quality of life things (like giving static buildup a place to go). This doesn't matter for most home uses, but it could in sensitive industrial systems.
Hi I like your videos
Why do we have grounding rods, "intentionally ground the system"?
I’m gonna become a master electrician
How goes a ground identify itself?
Yes
Okay, it’s been a while since I read/heard this (so I may be wrong), but here goes anyway. It seems like somewhere, an electrician said that you should NOT bond neutral to your grounding conductor; this was because any normally functioning load, sending power back to the panel via the neutral, would also be energizing the grounding conductors through the whole system. And that would be a problem since all metallic boxes (outlet/switch boxes, junction boxes, etc) must be bonded to the grounding conductor to provide a path for fault current; if ground is bonded to neutral, and potentially energized by a running load, then that produces a shock hazard. Or am I remembering something incorrectly there?
The idea is that you shouldn't bond ground to neutral anywhere except the main bonding jumper. You need that single bond at the panel for the equipment ground to do its job.
But you are correct that there should be no other ground-neutral bond, otherwise, yes, the grounding conductor that is in parallel with the neutral will carry some of the neutral current, and a hot to neutral fault can energize other grounded metal parts in affected portions of the system.
That is mostly nonsense. Sure there can be very small stray currents but no cases are energized unless the neutral breaks. Do not listen to random people. In the US system one must bond the ground and the neutral. It is not safe if you do not.
There are countries where that is not done but they solve the problems with other methods, essentially house wide RCD protection.
U-Ground Outlet, as a kid when 3-wire receptacles first came on the market they were called "U-Ground Outlets" anyone know the history of the term and why it went away.
Well is not that unusual to have problems if the neutral in the main breaker is not grounded, here in Mexico We call it Floating Neutral and the whole system goes nuts because the current is trying to find the lowest potential point and lights goes on and of everywhere as if there were ghosts in the building :D
In Canada, we call it Floating Neutral also 😉. And you are totally right about what happens when not well grounded
I've been wondering how electrical devices are grounded where there is no ground, such as in aircraft or space.
v dope
Can anyone weigh in on... say I'm doing low volt shit and my secondary bus bar eventually goes to the PBB. (The primary bus bar that I assume is connected to neutral as well as the grounding rod).
I suppose that whatever energy (static or whatever) builds on my system just goes to the rod?
Hi! Apprentice here, I got home from work today after doing a bunch of cable tray bonding and grounding and was thinking to myself “Man I really wanna understand the difference clearly between these two.” My phone must have been listening to my thoughts because this video popped up first thing lol!
why would you not explain that all neutrals are grounded conductors but not all grounded conductors are neutrals depending on system? 120/208Y and 120/240 have true neutral whereas corner grounded delta does not.
Can I use the grounding wire when putting in Wi-Fi switch when there is no neutral
This shit gave me anxiety lol
Dude that’s what I’m saying.
Enjoyed didn’t understand.
PLEASE HELP…
When considering Neutral Ground Bonding
in a Completely OFF GRID system…
If instead of a an electric company grid transformer supplying electricity
as the source of power,
we now consider a
completely OFF GRID solar outbuilding,
as the originating source of power
(some distance from service structure
where a main service panel
will be the Main Panel).
1) Do we treat the outbuilding (power provider)
as if it were essentially the same as
a grid power supply transformer?
2) Do we create a neutral ground bond
in the outbuilding
(power provider equipment),
as if it were the pole transformer,
since the source of power
is generated there?
3) Do we create a neutral ground bond
at the Main Service Panel,
located in the service structure,
(power consumer structure)
not near the power generating
out building (power providing structure)?
4) if there is a NG bond
at the power producing outbuilding,
(power provider source),
and a NG bond
at the Main Service Panel
(consumer first point of entry)
in the service building (consumer),
if a short circuit or ground fault occurs,
a) WILL IT TRIP THE BREAKER
in the Main Service Panel
located in the consumer
service building?
b) will it trip the breaker
in the power outbuilding
(power provider source)
that feeds
the main service panel
in the service building?
c) should each building
have their own ground rods?
5) In the power producing outbuilding
can the DC side and the AC side,
use the same Ground rod?
or will this create an issue?
This is a tough one to figure out.
I have watched tons of videos
but nothing explains what to do
when you are
the electric provider in one building
and in a separate building
you are an electric consumer.
Thank you
Need help on this one!
In Chicago, since everything is Ron in Candlewood, everything electrical is grounded
In one word? Current.
Confusing
Waving arms driving me NUTS!
8:50
Wrong.
A NEUTRAL HAS TO BE BROUGHT TO GROUND, Grounded, Earthed.
If not, it's not a neutral. and if its supposed to be a neutral, like in a 120/240V single phase or 120/208V 3phase system, a non-grounded neutral can cause voltages fluctuations and/or damage to equipment
You misunderstand. He means that, electrically, the circuit will operate, not that such a configuration is compliant.
Electrical systems worked just fine with no grounding electrode or equipment grounds for decades before it became required.
Question, is the voltage truly fluctuating or is it possible that there is no bonded point of reference for the electric multi meter to measure from?