I remember when Intel said "We don't glue CPUs together". I also remember when Intel said "Desktop users won't need 64-bit systems" Intel, stop limiting innovation just because AMD did it first. Get there first and if you cannibalize your own products, it's better that Intel do it than your competition.
To the adult in the room: Why are the top 10 cpus on Amazon AMD? Why is AMD stealing market share in the server space? Why is Intel's stock price in the Skibidi toilet?
It's all because of a big secretive AMD fan club that's driving down Intel's price! It couldn't be that there CPUs are actually better performing for their cost and use less energy!! But now Level1 will sell out because they gave him a big server to run in his basement for free
Businesses aren't buying their CPUs from Amazon. AMD are stealing market because their CPUs are good. There are many reasons for Intel's doom stock price. Pat being one of them.
"OK. There's an adult in the room". My god what an obnoxious arrogant guy. I think you're supposed to have the "This video contains sponsored content" card enabled for this kind of thing. This was nothing but an ad.
From my perspective Intel is still just as arrogant as they have always been. Imagine your company has not made anything truly competitive in 10 years and your stock is tanking, you are preparing to sell off some portion of your assets to your competitors yet the best that you can say is that you are the adult in the room. Honestly there seems to be no hope for Intel at all.
he looks out of touch, but in fairness I've seen the intel people and their divisions are way too far apart. The server guys have no real understanding on the hate intel is (correctly) receiving. The server (Xeon) division had no slip ups of recent. No bugs on the xeons afaik.
Server farm halls I've worked in had ear protection dispensers by the doors. The regular staff always used them, the Young Immortals working contract shifts didn't.
Just wait till you see my FluidX3D on Xeon 6 demo at SC24! Those 24 memory channels with 24x 256GB MRDIMMs at 8800MT/s is absolutely nuts. That is 6TB RAM at 1.7TB/s, perfect for gigantic computational fluid dynamics simulations and other HPC applications which are pretty much all bandwidth-bound.
Intel did it with P4D and early version of C2D and C2Q, which AMD called them out, even went as far as calling them fake dual and quads? Guess AMD has fake cores.
@@abavariannormiepleb9470The thing I don't like about STH is they don't actually tell me about serving the home. 64 port 800gb/s Ethernet switch. Even Zuckerberg doesn't need that for his home network. Still a good channel just wish they'd left the name free for home stuff.
1:26 This is all the explanation we need for Zen5. It is funny that Intel would historically pump billions of dollars into maintaining dominance in the laptop market, I guess they did it just for the entertainment value.
@@abavariannormiepleb9470 Can't outrun your spoon. Exercise is good for the heart and circulatory system but you have to eat right to actually be healthy.
@@CyberneticArgumentCreatorConsidering that Wendell has been permanently blacklisted in the tick hosts file from eating any mammalian meat or milk for the remainder of his life, he doesn't have too far to run when it comes to outrunning his spoon. No seriously, look at any video from Wendell from before the bite, a year after, and now, and notice that he went on a forced turbo crash diet as he adjusted. Losing a tremendous amount of weight without increasing any sort of exercise is *not* a pretty look.
"Oh! There's an adult in the room." I see. That explains how Intel got drunk and broke 13th gen. Really, you'd think we would be past horrible statements like that, but alas...
The intel divisions are really far apart; these are the server guys and don't really have a clue on what's the public opinion on Intel for the 13th and 14th gen chips. Vmin Shift Instability doesn't exist in Xeons; they are just trying to battle Epyc and the Arm offerings. He did sound like a smug prick but if you have ever talked to an Intel spokesperson before you'd know they know nothing besides their own line up on the server space.
So, is Intel Ryan the guy I have to thank for back in the day my Intel 320 600 GB SSDs suddenly losing all data and not being usable again until you performed a Secure Erase on them…? And no, it also happened during normal operation, not only during power cycle situations due to a faulty capacitor as was explained back then.
Sooo they finally Got A CPU with as many cores as an AMD cpu, just with insane power draw and that´s good why ? For that power draw you can get 192 Cores from AMD.
That’s hardly an insane power draw? 500 Watts / 128 Cores = less than 5 Watts per core, even less than that when you consider everything that isn’t a core that’s taking some power, like those dual IO dies for example. Compared to a 300 Watt 64 core server, that works out to … ~5 Watts per core, or more actually if you take 350 Watts. Also, aren’t AMD also selling 96 full fat non-c Core Epyc CPUs with a 500 Watt TDP, for an efficiency of … more than 5 watts per core. Compared to desktop CPUs 24 cores at 250 Watts = ~10 watts per core, 16 cores at 150 watts = ~10 watts per core, and if you wanna disingenuously disregard the efficiency cores, 250 watts / 8 performance cores = greater than 25 watts per core.
@@levygaming3133 Honestly thats comparing apples and oranges, comparing a high clock speed part to a high core count part is just being dishonest, they are meant for different things, but what I would say is that they are closing the gap between themselves and AMD, and anything that can take advantage of the accelerators built into Intel's parts it will be a no brainier to go Intel, so I dissagree with the OP and you, no it's not amazingly efficient, but it's also a massive improvement for Intel and in a lot of applications it makes Intel at least as viable as AMD and depending upon your workload one or the other will make the most sense which is super healthy. Wish the desktop/laptop market was in such a healthy position, this is great from my prospective and give me hope that maybe next generation Intel with be highly competitive with AMD in laptop and desktop.
@@Etheoma isn’t the clock speed on these intels comparable ish to the high clock speed AMD servers? Like 4.5GHz vs 4.8GHz for AMD? Unless you meant when I was comparing it to the desktop platforms, which was absolutely apples and oranges.
@@rudysmith1552 time slicing a single stupid fast core is easy and efficient. trying to get an application to take efficient advantage of lots of cores is a WAY harder problem. I would much rather have a 64 core cpu with double the single core performance of the cores in that 128 core cpu. there are also workloads that are just really difficult to parallelize that need to be done on a single thread.
Thank you for bringing the larger picture of enterprise and AI economics into the discussion. I feel as if 'Desktop Mindshare' is probably weighted by the community too heavily. Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't buy Arrow Lake Desktop at half the price(probably), but it's cool to see the other side.
Xeon 6 seems like a compelling product to me in todays “AI” era. The make or break though is whether you can leverage Intels accelerators otherwise it loses. Based on managements comments about head node wins I think that’s starting to happen. Definitely a great time to be an enthusiast or in the industry!
The best thing about Xeons is they become obsolete for data farm use and hit the used market for favorable prices. I just dropped an E5-2699 v3 into my X99 board. Sure it's old, and it's not clocked very high, and it's pretty well locked, but it's a hoot seeing those 18 cores churning away -- for under $50!
Amen to that, I'm DYING for some LGA3647 motherboards to drop in price a bit, there are plenty of Xeon Gold 20+ core CPUs for around 20-30 dollars already, but no cheap boards yet
@@ezforsaken The boards will always be in shorter supply because they tend to fail at a way higher rate than the CPUs. Double that issue if a board carries over two generations of CPUs.
@@rangersmith4652 of course, but there are always asian board wizards that will steal parts from dead boards and create weird but functional cheap motherboards (like the Machinist X99 board I own)
Did Intel pay for your trip? Do they give you free hardware to review and never ask for it back? Because what I'm hearing is a lot of rah-rah without explaining how their business model will work?
These are paid videos (as in wendell gets paid for going there and making a video about it), that's why it has the 'Includes paid promotion' on the thumbnail when you hover your mouse over it. There's nothing weird about it, Level1 has done a couple already, not only on intel but on Amd and nvidia as well. Recent one that comes to mind that has a similar fashion (basically showing off the selling points of the hardware maker) is the video shot for GTC24 (Showing off nvidia Blackwell). This type of content is extremely common on the Server space and this channel has always done this type of coverage. Mind you he is not saying this is the best CPU in the world, and he is not saying this is better than others, he is just explaining that the new work intel is doing on the server space is really interesting (which as a person from the server world i agree it is)
Intel guy be speaking bee ess marketing. "less cores are better because more cores aren't always used." Capacity Management consultants exist so ensure spend is efficient and matches usage. Programmers manage distribution of load. Idle cores means the buyers or programmers haven't done their job properly, not that a narrower CPU somehow don't have a problem a wider CPU does. Being forced to optimise for two different styles of uarchs (narrower faster P or wider slower E) with different feature sets and accelerators, IS a problem.
The needs and explanations only make sense for server workloads (virtualisation, containerisation, highly parallel loads, machine learning, scaling past 32-64 cores)
I think you should look into wire-less laviler mic's. I am thinking something like Hollyland Lark M2 or similar. The look super easy to use. Some streamers use them for IRL streaming. The perform surprisingly well in loud environments. The might be others that dos it even better 🤷♂. But wire-less with a magnet mount and multiple mics, looks to me like something you could benefit a lot from.
Why level1tech reviews are consistently different to others?. He seems to be pretty happy with the latest chips, others say "intel is doomed", "AMD lied to us" and so on.
Most reviewers are either exclusively focused on gaming or split their focus between gaming and productivity. The chips in this video are really for neither of those things.
Because most reviewers are just basic game testers and don't go anywhere near what is being explained here. This channel cares more about the server and compute stuff rather than cyberpunk 2077 fps. Its a completely different layer of approach to reviews. GN and the other game reviewers are still better at informing normal consumer decisions as this channel is mostly for people into server and compute. There are also reviewers that focus on productivity which in general reviews intel fairly well as intel cpu just perform quite well in productivity tasks.
Because doom and gloom gets clicks and the ill-informed get stuck on "their" hardware and "their" card manufacturer without understanding the industry. I prefer the balance of say Steve/Paul's reporting and STH/Wendells reporting to come to an opinion somewhere in the middle. What gamers fail to realize is that they are not any of these companies bread and butter. If "gamers" stop buying Intel, Intel doesnt go out of business. If enterprises stop buying Intel (for server compute and day to day workstation ops), they die no matter how much gamers/end users pretend they matter. Same with team Red/Green/etc and any big tech hardware company that isnt covered in rgb puke.
Phoronix has had largely positive coverage of zen 5 and arrow lake as well. Consoooomers are just mad we aren't getting another 20%+ global gen over gen CPU-limited frametime uplift. Zen 5 and arrow lake... Are good, actually. If only arrow lake had avx512 and any kind of ecc support, motherboards with pcie bifurcation, and used those 48 pcie lanes for actual pcie slots instead of motherboards just spamming the hell out of nvme... it would make a great prosumer stepping stone between real consumer chips and threadripper these days... And if only zen 5 had a faster memory controller and more pcie lanes. Here's hoping am5 is a dead platform.
Funny: Intel VP, its not just the cores, its everything around then, But our competitor is usually at least one Gen ahead of us for RAM & PCIe performance! At this point Intel might be better off exiting the performanceCPU Market & focus on peripherals, Storage, Maybe AI & Mobile CPU & low power solutions (ie Atom). Intel is like the jack of many trades, but AMD is the master of a single trade. The whole oxide problem burned too many intel customers.
As described, this sounds like the new robust and future proof threshold. Xeon 6 + PCIe-oF + SSDs, yeah ! Now we just need a board with NO legacy crap (don't use it - don't want it ). So, I think with modest investment, and careful integration, a home-lab can have the tech power of enterprise. Composable, Scalable, let's build it !
Good stuff. However, Intel is done as a fab! I am not sure they can keep that after failing over and over like they have done in the last 10 years! I mean, why are they even using TSMC if their new Intel 20A and 18A are so great? Is Intel 3 a good node? Seems like Wendell talked positive about it, but Intel is a mess and not getting better.
18A is meant to be good and it needs to be, but they're using tsmc as a hedge in case 18A is bad. They had to make that decision years ago when theycouldn;t know how far along 18A was.
they are out of cash right now because they have absolutely splurged on equipment and fabs for their new nodes. I haven't read up enough on why they are doing dev on multiple nodes all at once but it looks like they are scattergunning it so that at least one is suitable for lith leadership. The payoff on this stuff comes years after investment, the regression into being uncompetitive sludge over the last few years are probably the downstream effect of an elongated period of dodgy internal management and politicking (Krzanich, Swan, Murthy etc)
This is Intel’s _third_ generation of A “tiled architecture” (what they are calling their multi-chip technique and technology), with the first being Intel Sapphire Rapids (Intel Xeon Scalable 4th Gen) and is probably at least half of why that CPU was so famously delayed.
I don,t miss that 10 x Dyson Vacuum Cleaner screaming fan noise, I spent a lot of time and money on my home lab to shut it up, but I wouldn't mind one of those 500w Xeon's.....
Really proud of my guys in packaging that the 4:48 shot is possible. Cores and blocks and accelerators are cool, but they don't do a whole lot without the glue team tacking it all together. I'm very excited by some of the current research going on in MCM packaging in different foundries right now. There's gonna be some weird chips in the near future.
I hope Intel open source the iGPU graphics so we can install macOS on...Intel hardware, that would be massive for Hackintosh community, please Intel do the right thing for humanity
Those e-cores never belonged on the same chips. Let's hope this trend continues. Sadly, intel's new chiplet design has added enormous latency for Arrow Lake, so here's to hoping....
So pardon this layman question: in the future when these CPUs and platforms will be "obsolete" for data centers and large mainframes or whatever, and start getting dumped onto ebay for cheap like with LGA20xx chips, will there be a reason to pick them up for consumer use? Or are they so specialized and high end that they're outside of what most consumers will ever need them for.
Isn't the "ecosystem" is what AMD is doing? I understand Intel made a good product, but I don't understand how is that "ecosystem" anything new. I'm not sure what the Intel guy tried to say either. Did they just discover you work with your consumers to understand what they want? Wendell said more about these Xeons than the guy who oversees their development. Not a very good advertising.
Will server manufacturers fit brushless motors to there fans in the next iteration of carrot chasing. The human ear is 3-4 hundred thousand times as sensitive as the eye & should be appreciated accordingly. Bosch can do it in their washing machines why not server machines, with aero dynamics built into frames. Stop the Noise!
The worst part is a lot of rackable equipment with fans is always configured by default to have them run at their maximum possible speed which is in the 9000+rpm and makes this screaming from hell noise. When 99% of the time they don't need to be operating anywhere near that level of cooling at all. If its any kind of demo system or network equipment sometimes they don't even have any options to turn that sht down at all...
By what metric do you measure the ear as hundreds of thousands of times as sensitive as the eye? Did you invent an entire new branch of science in which light and sound are directly correlatable?
@@ezforsakenI don’t think AMD can accrue the level of mindless fanboyism that Nvidia currently enjoys, but that doesn’t change the fact that AMD is a publicly-owned corporation whose first allegiance is to their shareholders, even before their own customers.
after 21 minutes watching, you just told me intel realizes that memory bandwidth, storage bandwidth, PciE bandwidth AND IO bandwidth also matter in the eco system? Werent they at 64 cores 5 years ago? im confused.
Thanks Wendell, number one source of nity gritty details as always. "There's an adult in the room" 😂 I needed a good laugh. Intel has fumbled every exciting idea they've had in recent memory, that toxic positivity is what has gotten them into this hole.
Before being too critical remember this isn't about desktops, these run about $11,000 to $18,000 per cpu. It's not even in the same universe as what you're looking at on Amazon.
It's a well-designed processor but a bit of a cheat since it uses TSMC fabs, not Intel. AMD and Nvidia largely pulled ahead of Intel by focusing on design rather than fabs They delegated the work to TSMC whose superior fabs helped them pull ahead of Intel. Thus the real test of how Intel will do over the next few years is their upcoming 18A and next-gen lithography high-na 14a produced at their own fabs. If Intel wants to thrive it needs to at least match TSMC or the added expense of inferior fabs is a threat of eventually bankrupting them. Addendum: Made an error in the above post. Xeon 6 chips are manufactured by Intel 3nm fabs. I was thinking of Intel's latest Arrow Lake chips which were supposed to be using Intel fabs but were switched to TSMC and Intel canceled 2nm. Still sticking to the general thesis Intel's future hinges on the upcoming fabs. 3nm is not going to cut it for long with TSMC 2nm chips coming out in 2025. Intel needs a win in the fab business to stay competitive.
@@Level1Techs Me bad. I was thinking about Intel's latest Arrow lake chips. Nevertheless, I think Intel's future hinges on the competitiveness of their upcoming fabs. They have dumped a lot of money trying to get them to work. I hope the yields are good. Would be great for consumers to see Intel back in the game. More competition.
issue is Intel has a huge product line, and not just CPUs, where as AMD is very focused on CPUs & a bit on GPU. Master tradesman vs Jack of all Trades. No way will Intel ever beat AMD. Best option for Intel is to stop competeing with AMD and focus on the rest of its product line: Peripherals, Storage, Mobile CPU, Atom, etc
@@guytech7310 You have a point about divided resources but keep in mind Intel has more engineers and scientists than Nvida and AMD combined. Intel used to be way ahead of AMD when Intel still had the best fabs. Then the 14+++ debacle turned their fabs into a money pit producing second rate node sizes. Not sure why Intel had so many problems but Gelsinger bet the proverbial farm with their next generation fabs. Pat invested heavily a few years ago to be first in line for ASMLs next gen lithography machines and mega fabs. Assuming there are no more fab delays when Intel's high-na chips come out in theory this would give Intel an advantage over TSMC for the first time in over a decade. And since Intel have split their business and now offering fab services to competitors its potentially a double whammy for TSMC if Intel ends up taking a cut of their near monopoly marketshare in high end chip manufacturing services. Or, it could turn into another 14+++ catastrophe if there are too many more delays. TBD.
@@mydogsbutler thanks for pointing it out, people need to stop sucking on the AMD nipple so much, yes they are fast and great and AMD deserved some wins after so many years of getting the rear end; but nobody wants all the modern manufacturing plants and trade secrets to be on an Asian remote island which is sooner than later going to face military conflicts.
Lol Intel is delusional. That Xeon 6 got destroyed by Turin. Including the ARM Altera processor. Cores matter infact a LOT. Why is the E core processors and Zen c processors are coming, VMWare licensing system plus ARM density.
Turin is incredibly impressive, you're right. but even in the benchmarks where Intel wins, the gap is narrower than it ever has been. This competition means a healthier server ecosystem for customers, for whom I advocate. :)
What do you mean it got destroyed, yeah turin is faster bro but it's not faster by a mile. I'm not gonna buy nothing from Intel this gen but dude you sure you want to exaggerate on every word you use just to keep defending the TSMC monopoly on cpu manufacturing? You do understand that island is near war and is the only place on the planet where modern tech comes from...
Gaudi? So are Intel using the names of church and/or funky park designers as codenames? Who's next? Wren? Disney? ...? Intel are the best at P-cores & ST perf (really impressed with my Alder Lake systems). I'm still not convinced by the long-term viability of E-cores however but don't have the cash or the justification for a Xeon system. Must fix that...
Hey Look! A Free Webinar from Intel software.seek.intel.com/techdecoded-webinars
Also, go follow Ryan! x.com/red_stapler
Any chance you can reupload it with dulled fan noise?
We get it. They're 9000db. Doesn't mean they have to be on this end of TH-cam.
I remember when Intel said "We don't glue CPUs together".
I also remember when Intel said "Desktop users won't need 64-bit systems"
Intel, stop limiting innovation just because AMD did it first. Get there first and if you cannibalize your own products, it's better that Intel do it than your competition.
Of course Intel could have always sped up tech releases. They chose to stretch it as long and far as they could for the $$$.
Intel's been gluing dies together since the PPro
To the adult in the room:
Why are the top 10 cpus on Amazon AMD?
Why is AMD stealing market share in the server space?
Why is Intel's stock price in the Skibidi toilet?
It's all because of a big secretive AMD fan club that's driving down Intel's price! It couldn't be that there CPUs are actually better performing for their cost and use less energy!!
But now Level1 will sell out because they gave him a big server to run in his basement for free
because intel messed up
also DIY PCs are irrelevant for these companies
All that I've been given
Is this pain that I've been living
They got me in the system
Why they gotta do me like that?
Businesses aren't buying their CPUs from Amazon.
AMD are stealing market because their CPUs are good.
There are many reasons for Intel's doom stock price. Pat being one of them.
The "Adult in the room" has alzheimers
"OK. There's an adult in the room". My god what an obnoxious arrogant guy.
I think you're supposed to have the "This video contains sponsored content" card enabled for this kind of thing. This was nothing but an ad.
Watch out, you’re going to be called a AMD fan boy for calling the most obvious ad ever an ad.
From my perspective Intel is still just as arrogant as they have always been. Imagine your company has not made anything truly competitive in 10 years and your stock is tanking, you are preparing to sell off some portion of your assets to your competitors yet the best that you can say is that you are the adult in the room. Honestly there seems to be no hope for Intel at all.
Ok, but that adult keeps dropping the ball
the adult keeps torching himself to death
Was looking for someone to comment on this
I thought that comment was a bit childish, rather ironically.
that intel guy is far to arrogant for the shitshow intel delivered lately
he looks out of touch, but in fairness I've seen the intel people and their divisions are way too far apart. The server guys have no real understanding on the hate intel is (correctly) receiving. The server (Xeon) division had no slip ups of recent. No bugs on the xeons afaik.
When you film by the servers I fear for your hearing... and mine. LOL
Server farm halls I've worked in had ear protection dispensers by the doors. The regular staff always used them, the Young Immortals working contract shifts didn't.
I've learned to put in ear plugs before watching a lvl1 video, to cut the inevitable nasty sound surprise.
Just wait till you see my FluidX3D on Xeon 6 demo at SC24! Those 24 memory channels with 24x 256GB MRDIMMs at 8800MT/s is absolutely nuts. That is 6TB RAM at 1.7TB/s, perfect for gigantic computational fluid dynamics simulations and other HPC applications which are pretty much all bandwidth-bound.
That's a lot of glue right there!
Intel did it with P4D and early version of C2D and C2Q, which AMD called them out, even went as far as calling them fake dual and quads? Guess AMD has fake cores.
@AlfaPro1337 I take it you missed the older reference to glue by intel at AMD.
@@25MHzisbest last I checked, the pentium 4 much predates AMD’s return to form with Ryzen. By, like, a decade?
@@25MHzisbest I take it you're too young to remember AMD's comments on Intel's first multicore dies?
@@CyberneticArgumentCreator Too boring to care to be fair.
That guy at 4.5 minutes acting like every cpu designer in the world doesn't already know about having enough memory bandwidth to feed the cores.
but the exciting new development is that less cores is now better.
Security and Intel .... We all make Jokes about that.
This and ServeTheHome are the content I trust the most for enterprise evaluations. Thanks, Wendell!
Partly agree, the thing about STH I don’t like is that they are in my opinion too positive, not offering enough constructive criticism.
ditto
@@abavariannormiepleb9470The thing I don't like about STH is they don't actually tell me about serving the home. 64 port 800gb/s Ethernet switch. Even Zuckerberg doesn't need that for his home network.
Still a good channel just wish they'd left the name free for home stuff.
You shouldn't trust them because they're just doing paid promotion
1:26 This is all the explanation we need for Zen5.
It is funny that Intel would historically pump billions of dollars into maintaining dominance in the laptop market, I guess they did it just for the entertainment value.
"ok there's an adult in the room" yeeaah sure grandpa, lets get you back to the bingo-club ok?
windel looks physically much better.
I'm so happy, good job, not only on being a mad genuis, but also committed to their health
Get an elliptical trainer and keep a regular training schedule, it’s never too late to improve one’s health.
@@abavariannormiepleb9470 or get an rhino in your living room, you'll have to run everytime!
@@abavariannormiepleb9470 Can't outrun your spoon. Exercise is good for the heart and circulatory system but you have to eat right to actually be healthy.
if only Patrick from STH would follow suit! I want both these guys alive and well for LONG
@@CyberneticArgumentCreatorConsidering that Wendell has been permanently blacklisted in the tick hosts file from eating any mammalian meat or milk for the remainder of his life, he doesn't have too far to run when it comes to outrunning his spoon.
No seriously, look at any video from Wendell from before the bite, a year after, and now, and notice that he went on a forced turbo crash diet as he adjusted. Losing a tremendous amount of weight without increasing any sort of exercise is *not* a pretty look.
"Oh! There's an adult in the room." I see. That explains how Intel got drunk and broke 13th gen.
Really, you'd think we would be past horrible statements like that, but alas...
Toughen up, buttercup.
The intel divisions are really far apart; these are the server guys and don't really have a clue on what's the public opinion on Intel for the 13th and 14th gen chips. Vmin Shift Instability doesn't exist in Xeons; they are just trying to battle Epyc and the Arm offerings. He did sound like a smug prick but if you have ever talked to an Intel spokesperson before you'd know they know nothing besides their own line up on the server space.
So, is Intel Ryan the guy I have to thank for back in the day my Intel 320 600 GB SSDs suddenly losing all data and not being usable again until you performed a Secure Erase on them…?
And no, it also happened during normal operation, not only during power cycle situations due to a faulty capacitor as was explained back then.
Sooo they finally Got A CPU with as many cores as an AMD cpu, just with insane power draw
and that´s good why ?
For that power draw you can get 192 Cores from AMD.
That’s hardly an insane power draw? 500 Watts / 128 Cores = less than 5 Watts per core, even less than that when you consider everything that isn’t a core that’s taking some power, like those dual IO dies for example.
Compared to a 300 Watt 64 core server, that works out to … ~5 Watts per core, or more actually if you take 350 Watts. Also, aren’t AMD also selling 96 full fat non-c Core Epyc CPUs with a 500 Watt TDP, for an efficiency of … more than 5 watts per core.
Compared to desktop CPUs 24 cores at 250 Watts = ~10 watts per core, 16 cores at 150 watts = ~10 watts per core, and if you wanna disingenuously disregard the efficiency cores, 250 watts / 8 performance cores = greater than 25 watts per core.
What application would require a single threaded performance higher than AMD in a 192 core application. So maybe exclusively research facilities.
@@levygaming3133 Honestly thats comparing apples and oranges, comparing a high clock speed part to a high core count part is just being dishonest, they are meant for different things, but what I would say is that they are closing the gap between themselves and AMD, and anything that can take advantage of the accelerators built into Intel's parts it will be a no brainier to go Intel, so I dissagree with the OP and you, no it's not amazingly efficient, but it's also a massive improvement for Intel and in a lot of applications it makes Intel at least as viable as AMD and depending upon your workload one or the other will make the most sense which is super healthy.
Wish the desktop/laptop market was in such a healthy position, this is great from my prospective and give me hope that maybe next generation Intel with be highly competitive with AMD in laptop and desktop.
@@Etheoma isn’t the clock speed on these intels comparable ish to the high clock speed AMD servers? Like 4.5GHz vs 4.8GHz for AMD? Unless you meant when I was comparing it to the desktop platforms, which was absolutely apples and oranges.
@@rudysmith1552 time slicing a single stupid fast core is easy and efficient. trying to get an application to take efficient advantage of lots of cores is a WAY harder problem. I would much rather have a 64 core cpu with double the single core performance of the cores in that 128 core cpu. there are also workloads that are just really difficult to parallelize that need to be done on a single thread.
Thank you for bringing the larger picture of enterprise and AI economics into the discussion. I feel as if 'Desktop Mindshare' is probably weighted by the community too heavily. Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't buy Arrow Lake Desktop at half the price(probably), but it's cool to see the other side.
Xeon 6 seems like a compelling product to me in todays “AI” era. The make or break though is whether you can leverage Intels accelerators otherwise it loses. Based on managements comments about head node wins I think that’s starting to happen. Definitely a great time to be an enthusiast or in the industry!
The best thing about Xeons is they become obsolete for data farm use and hit the used market for favorable prices. I just dropped an E5-2699 v3 into my X99 board. Sure it's old, and it's not clocked very high, and it's pretty well locked, but it's a hoot seeing those 18 cores churning away -- for under $50!
Amen to that, I'm DYING for some LGA3647 motherboards to drop in price a bit, there are plenty of Xeon Gold 20+ core CPUs for around 20-30 dollars already, but no cheap boards yet
@@ezforsaken The boards will always be in shorter supply because they tend to fail at a way higher rate than the CPUs. Double that issue if a board carries over two generations of CPUs.
@@rangersmith4652 of course, but there are always asian board wizards that will steal parts from dead boards and create weird but functional cheap motherboards (like the Machinist X99 board I own)
What I really want is the E3 series Xeon to return, like the 1241v3 I'm using right now.
Compared to AMD's EPIC everything is relative...
You should start recording voice overs near that server rack. I was still able to hear like 5 minutes of the video without being in pain...
And a case of tinnitus
always happy to see competition
Wendel, I have a lot of respect for you... But nothing can soften the crash landing of Intel we're witnessing in slow-mo. Gotta keep it real.
I mean there's no vshift in Xeons, the server division didn't do any screw ups.
Did Intel pay for your trip? Do they give you free hardware to review and never ask for it back?
Because what I'm hearing is a lot of rah-rah without explaining how their business model will work?
These are paid videos (as in wendell gets paid for going there and making a video about it), that's why it has the 'Includes paid promotion' on the thumbnail when you hover your mouse over it.
There's nothing weird about it, Level1 has done a couple already, not only on intel but on Amd and nvidia as well. Recent one that comes to mind that has a similar fashion (basically showing off the selling points of the hardware maker) is the video shot for GTC24 (Showing off nvidia Blackwell).
This type of content is extremely common on the Server space and this channel has always done this type of coverage.
Mind you he is not saying this is the best CPU in the world, and he is not saying this is better than others, he is just explaining that the new work intel is doing on the server space is really interesting (which as a person from the server world i agree it is)
Good info and glad you are explaining that the system as a whole needs to be considered.
Intel guy be speaking bee ess marketing. "less cores are better because more cores aren't always used." Capacity Management consultants exist so ensure spend is efficient and matches usage. Programmers manage distribution of load. Idle cores means the buyers or programmers haven't done their job properly, not that a narrower CPU somehow don't have a problem a wider CPU does. Being forced to optimise for two different styles of uarchs (narrower faster P or wider slower E) with different feature sets and accelerators, IS a problem.
2:58 I'll be sure to say hi to my mom next time I'm interviewed. 📝
at least by including that, wendell primed us for the rest of the maximum level facepalm from this guy
nice newspeak there Intel Human
I am not a server guy but this looks like another intel bs for me.
The needs and explanations only make sense for server workloads (virtualisation, containerisation, highly parallel loads, machine learning, scaling past 32-64 cores)
Basking in the warmth of Wendell's enthusiasm is such a treat. 🌟
I think you should look into wire-less laviler mic's. I am thinking something like Hollyland Lark M2 or similar. The look super easy to use. Some streamers use them for IRL streaming. The perform surprisingly well in loud environments. The might be others that dos it even better 🤷♂. But wire-less with a magnet mount and multiple mics, looks to me like something you could benefit a lot from.
Why level1tech reviews are consistently different to others?. He seems to be pretty happy with the latest chips, others say "intel is doomed", "AMD lied to us" and so on.
most reviewers are focused on gaming. plus there are desktop and server chips
Most reviewers are either exclusively focused on gaming or split their focus between gaming and productivity.
The chips in this video are really for neither of those things.
Because most reviewers are just basic game testers and don't go anywhere near what is being explained here. This channel cares more about the server and compute stuff rather than cyberpunk 2077 fps. Its a completely different layer of approach to reviews. GN and the other game reviewers are still better at informing normal consumer decisions as this channel is mostly for people into server and compute. There are also reviewers that focus on productivity which in general reviews intel fairly well as intel cpu just perform quite well in productivity tasks.
Because doom and gloom gets clicks and the ill-informed get stuck on "their" hardware and "their" card manufacturer without understanding the industry. I prefer the balance of say Steve/Paul's reporting and STH/Wendells reporting to come to an opinion somewhere in the middle.
What gamers fail to realize is that they are not any of these companies bread and butter. If "gamers" stop buying Intel, Intel doesnt go out of business. If enterprises stop buying Intel (for server compute and day to day workstation ops), they die no matter how much gamers/end users pretend they matter. Same with team Red/Green/etc and any big tech hardware company that isnt covered in rgb puke.
Phoronix has had largely positive coverage of zen 5 and arrow lake as well. Consoooomers are just mad we aren't getting another 20%+ global gen over gen CPU-limited frametime uplift. Zen 5 and arrow lake... Are good, actually. If only arrow lake had avx512 and any kind of ecc support, motherboards with pcie bifurcation, and used those 48 pcie lanes for actual pcie slots instead of motherboards just spamming the hell out of nvme... it would make a great prosumer stepping stone between real consumer chips and threadripper these days... And if only zen 5 had a faster memory controller and more pcie lanes. Here's hoping am5 is a dead platform.
Funny: Intel VP, its not just the cores, its everything around then, But our competitor is usually at least one Gen ahead of us for RAM & PCIe performance!
At this point Intel might be better off exiting the performanceCPU Market & focus on peripherals, Storage, Maybe AI & Mobile CPU & low power solutions (ie Atom). Intel is like the jack of many trades, but AMD is the master of a single trade. The whole oxide problem burned too many intel customers.
Adults eating all the glueeee
As described, this sounds like the new robust and future proof threshold.
Xeon 6 + PCIe-oF + SSDs, yeah ! Now we just need a board with NO legacy crap (don't use it - don't want it ).
So, I think with modest investment, and careful integration, a home-lab can have the tech power of enterprise.
Composable, Scalable, let's build it !
What is the performance to power vs Turin?
Not me stressing over the rusty pipe above a rack of equipment worth more than I make a year. XD
HI mom!
Good stuff. However, Intel is done as a fab! I am not sure they can keep that after failing over and over like they have done in the last 10 years! I mean, why are they even using TSMC if their new Intel 20A and 18A are so great? Is Intel 3 a good node? Seems like Wendell talked positive about it, but Intel is a mess and not getting better.
18A is meant to be good and it needs to be, but they're using tsmc as a hedge in case 18A is bad. They had to make that decision years ago when theycouldn;t know how far along 18A was.
they are out of cash right now because they have absolutely splurged on equipment and fabs for their new nodes. I haven't read up enough on why they are doing dev on multiple nodes all at once but it looks like they are scattergunning it so that at least one is suitable for lith leadership. The payoff on this stuff comes years after investment, the regression into being uncompetitive sludge over the last few years are probably the downstream effect of an elongated period of dodgy internal management and politicking (Krzanich, Swan, Murthy etc)
I see glued together dies, was this ever mentioned in any press slides or public ?
This is Intel’s _third_ generation of A “tiled architecture” (what they are calling their multi-chip technique and technology), with the first being Intel Sapphire Rapids (Intel Xeon Scalable 4th Gen) and is probably at least half of why that CPU was so famously delayed.
I don,t miss that 10 x Dyson Vacuum Cleaner screaming fan noise, I spent a lot of time and money on my home lab to shut it up, but I wouldn't mind one of those 500w Xeon's.....
Informative. I have "Liquid PCIe Fabric" envy...
Heaven forbid we get affordable powerful low TDP AI cards for desktop.
a Danny Devito benchmark is a lovely concept
Well intel is atleast doing good here
Would be funny if the workstation versions of these chips would end up being better in gaming than Core Ultra.
P Cores is what I need for Servers, don't care much about E or the complexity that comes with it
Really proud of my guys in packaging that the 4:48 shot is possible. Cores and blocks and accelerators are cool, but they don't do a whole lot without the glue team tacking it all together. I'm very excited by some of the current research going on in MCM packaging in different foundries right now. There's gonna be some weird chips in the near future.
It's hilarious how "the fastest and the best CPU Intel has done in ten years" is running in old basement very close to a sink for laundry.
Intel Labs! Although I think that was Wendel's basement at home.
@ that’s even more hilarious
The hubris and narcissism from Ryan really turned me off on the video.
I hope Intel open source the iGPU graphics so we can install macOS on...Intel hardware, that would be massive for Hackintosh community, please Intel do the right thing for humanity
Could you run y-cruncher in stress test mode on it? (linux)
Those e-cores never belonged on the same chips. Let's hope this trend continues. Sadly, intel's new chiplet design has added enormous latency for Arrow Lake, so here's to hoping....
So pardon this layman question: in the future when these CPUs and platforms will be "obsolete" for data centers and large mainframes or whatever, and start getting dumped onto ebay for cheap like with LGA20xx chips, will there be a reason to pick them up for consumer use? Or are they so specialized and high end that they're outside of what most consumers will ever need them for.
or they have suicide vendor lock fuses "for securitah" so there is no trickledown onto the used market
if intel still relevant in the next 10 years MAYBE YES
What happened to all of the HBM memory these used to have? Also, can you do some gaming benchmarks on them for fun?
Shame they don't still have optane
is there going to be a follow up to the XEON 3500x series ?
First time in 5 years someone said something nice about intel and not even xmas :)
Wait a minute... Is that a screenshot of the Gnome desktop as the background image on an unactivated Win11 install in the background?!!!
vfio builds :)
Still garbage.. this reeks of paid promotion
/glances over to the Intel offerings on the desktop market
Wonder when that'll burn itself out?
Insmell Craptor Lakes, Lava Lakes and Boiling Lakes 🔥🔥🔥 are literally just brand new e-waste in a blue cardboard box now.
Isn't the "ecosystem" is what AMD is doing? I understand Intel made a good product, but I don't understand how is that "ecosystem" anything new. I'm not sure what the Intel guy tried to say either. Did they just discover you work with your consumers to understand what they want?
Wendell said more about these Xeons than the guy who oversees their development. Not a very good advertising.
Seems like amd still kicking there ass even if its price to performance or power to performance
Will server manufacturers fit brushless motors to there fans in the next iteration of carrot chasing. The human ear is 3-4 hundred thousand times as sensitive as the eye & should be appreciated accordingly. Bosch can do it in their washing machines why not server machines, with aero dynamics built into frames. Stop the Noise!
The worst part is a lot of rackable equipment with fans is always configured by default to have them run at their maximum possible speed which is in the 9000+rpm and makes this screaming from hell noise. When 99% of the time they don't need to be operating anywhere near that level of cooling at all. If its any kind of demo system or network equipment sometimes they don't even have any options to turn that sht down at all...
By what metric do you measure the ear as hundreds of thousands of times as sensitive as the eye? Did you invent an entire new branch of science in which light and sound are directly correlatable?
@@auturgicflosculator2183 See Tony Andrews FunctionOne Audio & Sound Reinforcement, read some of his material, thats a paraphrase quote from him.
:35 For triplicate backups of cat pictures, right?
but, you can not stand on the platform if it is in the cabinet, it folds out?
Nice rack
totally not an advertisment
0:06 water cooling prototype?
I don’t think so, pretty sure that’s Liquid ^TM , a company.
Although we all know intel is crashing and this video is kinda weird, but we still need intel to stick around so AMD doesn't become another intel.
or worse, have amd be another nvidia
That is all Intel consumer stuff which is very far removed from the enterprise stuff. Like I don’t think the divisions really talk to one another.
@@ezforsakenI don’t think AMD can accrue the level of mindless fanboyism that Nvidia currently enjoys, but that doesn’t change the fact that AMD is a publicly-owned corporation whose first allegiance is to their shareholders, even before their own customers.
That intel dude was spewing word salad marketing BS and basically said absolutely nothing of substance. OMG what was this video.
after 21 minutes watching, you just told me intel realizes that memory bandwidth, storage bandwidth, PciE bandwidth AND IO bandwidth also matter in the eco system?
Werent they at 64 cores 5 years ago?
im confused.
We need Intel to succeed otherwise AMD will get high on its success and charge us Nvidia GPU prices for a 15% performance improvement.
they kinda already started doing that, have you checked the latest epyc pricing? OOOF
6900 series? nice
Can it run Crysis?
P.S.: this is not my market, but this was an interesting video.
Well considering everything 128p cores in within "only" 500W is impressive for Intel.
Thanks Wendell, number one source of nity gritty details as always. "There's an adult in the room" 😂 I needed a good laugh. Intel has fumbled every exciting idea they've had in recent memory, that toxic positivity is what has gotten them into this hole.
its october 31 and rent has never been more due
But have they dropped the"Scaleable Xeon" garbage marketing strategy that has intentionally hobbled their whole lineup?
I beleave they renemed "6th generation Xeon scalable" to "Xeon 6".
@@lharsay The name is totally irrelevant.
But can it run Crysis?
Still using 3370 for watching you tube and other browsing.
includes paid promotion. only,.
Before being too critical remember this isn't about desktops, these run about $11,000 to $18,000 per cpu. It's not even in the same universe as what you're looking at on Amazon.
Don’t bother, their desktop processor is down 10 FPS in CSGO so the GN Steve zealots have declared they have nothing else to offer the world.
Competing with AMD's best in 20 years.
Good luck. 🙃
Cities Skylines 2
It's not but okay
Nope
It's a well-designed processor but a bit of a cheat since it uses TSMC fabs, not Intel. AMD and Nvidia largely pulled ahead of Intel by focusing on design rather than fabs They delegated the work to TSMC whose superior fabs helped them pull ahead of Intel. Thus the real test of how Intel will do over the next few years is their upcoming 18A and next-gen lithography high-na 14a produced at their own fabs. If Intel wants to thrive it needs to at least match TSMC or the added expense of inferior fabs is a threat of eventually bankrupting them.
Addendum: Made an error in the above post. Xeon 6 chips are manufactured by Intel 3nm fabs. I was thinking of Intel's latest Arrow Lake chips which were supposed to be using Intel fabs but were switched to TSMC and Intel canceled 2nm. Still sticking to the general thesis Intel's future hinges on the upcoming fabs. 3nm is not going to cut it for long with TSMC 2nm chips coming out in 2025. Intel needs a win in the fab business to stay competitive.
no! xeon! that's Intel. not tsmc, you thinking gaudi 3 maybe?
@@Level1Techs Me bad. I was thinking about Intel's latest Arrow lake chips. Nevertheless, I think Intel's future hinges on the competitiveness of their upcoming fabs. They have dumped a lot of money trying to get them to work. I hope the yields are good. Would be great for consumers to see Intel back in the game. More competition.
issue is Intel has a huge product line, and not just CPUs, where as AMD is very focused on CPUs & a bit on GPU. Master tradesman vs Jack of all Trades. No way will Intel ever beat AMD. Best option for Intel is to stop competeing with AMD and focus on the rest of its product line: Peripherals, Storage, Mobile CPU, Atom, etc
@@guytech7310 You have a point about divided resources but keep in mind Intel has more engineers and scientists than Nvida and AMD combined. Intel used to be way ahead of AMD when Intel still had the best fabs.
Then the 14+++ debacle turned their fabs into a money pit producing second rate node sizes. Not sure why Intel had so many problems but Gelsinger bet the proverbial farm with their next generation fabs. Pat invested heavily a few years ago to be first in line for ASMLs next gen lithography machines and mega fabs. Assuming there are no more fab delays when Intel's high-na chips come out in theory this would give Intel an advantage over TSMC for the first time in over a decade.
And since Intel have split their business and now offering fab services to competitors its potentially a double whammy for TSMC if Intel ends up taking a cut of their near monopoly marketshare in high end chip manufacturing services.
Or, it could turn into another 14+++ catastrophe if there are too many more delays. TBD.
@@mydogsbutler thanks for pointing it out, people need to stop sucking on the AMD nipple so much, yes they are fast and great and AMD deserved some wins after so many years of getting the rear end; but nobody wants all the modern manufacturing plants and trade secrets to be on an Asian remote island which is sooner than later going to face military conflicts.
Xeons are dead and so is Intel.
Recording this video in the damn server room was a bad choice.
Lol Intel is delusional. That Xeon 6 got destroyed by Turin. Including the ARM Altera processor. Cores matter infact a LOT. Why is the E core processors and Zen c processors are coming, VMWare licensing system plus ARM density.
Turin is incredibly impressive, you're right. but even in the benchmarks where Intel wins, the gap is narrower than it ever has been. This competition means a healthier server ecosystem for customers, for whom I advocate. :)
What do you mean it got destroyed, yeah turin is faster bro but it's not faster by a mile. I'm not gonna buy nothing from Intel this gen but dude you sure you want to exaggerate on every word you use just to keep defending the TSMC monopoly on cpu manufacturing? You do understand that island is near war and is the only place on the planet where modern tech comes from...
When did you get on intels payroll? Lol. Intel has been terrible for decades.. Worked there in the early 2000s...
Gaudi? So are Intel using the names of church and/or funky park designers as codenames? Who's next? Wren? Disney? ...? Intel are the best at P-cores & ST perf (really impressed with my Alder Lake systems). I'm still not convinced by the long-term viability of E-cores however but don't have the cash or the justification for a Xeon system. Must fix that...
Not good enough!
if intel drops the price a bit this would be a good setup for some datacenters, but it's more expensive than the faster Turin Epyc CPUs atm.
Alder lake is Intel's best product, Tiger lake and Raptor lake are Intel's worst. Arrow lake is not worth talking about.
but those E-cores tho. they seem QUITE good.
Though I wonder what tiles can pull off for HEDT. A possible 12 fat cores on a single chip, or 32 mini cores for server hosting...
upvote for "hi mom"