@@flyforce16 Well, they weren't left with an option. If they called the 3DS entry "Super Smash Bros Dimension" and the Wii U entry "Super Smash Bros Universe", they sound like completely different games, but they aren't. If they called them both "Super Smash Bros All Stars" then that wouldn't work either since they are very similar games, but not the exact same game.
I kinda wish someone would go into the different patches and the metas that formed from them. I feel like it would actually be pretty fun to go over the dominance of the infamous Hoo-ha and Shiek's 50/50 kill confirm
15:34 "Yoshi as high as 2nd place" was only ever a thing on the crappy Eventhubs website which was always a terrible source for information even back in 2015. The character truthfully had always languished in results compared to his fellow midtiers since the beginning and only really started to truly downward spiral once mid 2015 rolled around and Yoshi was still one of the only characters to never take a set off the PGR top 50. ( And the only character above low and bottom tier to never do so. ) Had Smash 4 kept going past EVO 2018, Yoshi would've kept dropping lower and lower until he sank to low tier and would've been worse than his Brawl iteration by a fair margin. It always pisses me off how they gutted his unique jump, his smash attacks, his tilts ( ESPECIALLY ftilt), his back air and his pivot grab game from Brawl all in the sake of "normalizing" him/making Yoshi easier to play, which only hurt him in the end. Ultimate thankfully had amsa on the testing team to rectify these mistakes and treat him better but goddamn, Smash 4 Yoshi was like stockholm syndrome and THE posterchild for "potential" meme. Even moreso than fucking Shulk. In the end, I'd personally put Smash 4 Yoshi around Falco's potency in the late meta. A character that looks fine on paper but falls apart in so many ways when viewed under a more focused lense. People just never knew how to properly fight Yoshi's smoke and mirrors until DLC dropped and Yoshi had more to contend with than just Diddy, Rosalina and a newly-buffed Marth, Lucina and Mewtwo.
Nah, Yoshi was a mid tier, and he wasn't gonna drop below that. He was a good character, but the meta developments (patches buffing characters drastically) and DLC really hurt him. He could have kept up with some buffs, but he got nothing. At least he is no longer mid in Ultimate, but an actual contender for top tier.
@@dragnjames2190 no I think what ruined Yoshi was the perception that his neutral was only fair. A lot of people in my community thought that was truly the only way to play the character when it wasn't. Yoshi did have great mobility, strong combos and his Smash attacks weren't that bad. He actually didn't do so bad against swordies like a lot of people thought. He could actually weave in and out, use his eggs or or double jump armor to take that out. He could also edge guard them. He just wasn't given strong representation like in 64, Melee and now Ultimate.
@@ryukoprop Smash 4 Falco always felt like the character that the devs had the most scorn for from his Brawl iteration. Atleast Meta Knight had his ladder of death in 4. EVERYTHING about Falco was so fucking underbaked in 4.
Bowser's buffs felt like an apology after his tier placement in Melee and Brawl. Little Mac feels like a joke but he was lucky to be a mid-tier. Shame how Yoshi ended up becoming a literal mid-tier after being considered to be a top or high-tier...
I wish Roy still had his DED (Double Edge Dance) animations from Melee so that he wouldn't copy Marth's Dancing Blade's animations. The 3rd upwards input would've been fun to land a Meteor both onstage and offstage just like how PM did it, especially the latter since landing the meteor only worked on stage in Melee
When charizard got buffed so many people got match up checked when i kept using him. He was fun wished he stayed solo i miss the rock. I pissed off alot of people at my locals
Something to mention about Olimar is that in Sm4sh, his aerials acted like projectiles, meaning you could beat them out super easily with other aerials. Olimar is significant better in ultimate all because they fixed his aerials to be normal disjoints lmao
DK was alright in smash 4, but he’s also very funny. A Chucky rage monster who lives at the top blast zone. This DK feels like an active attempt to take him back to how he was in Melee since brawl DK was… brawl DK. Also Robin not having a visible meter on screen is so bizarre. It’s wild how robins biggest buff between games is just the fact that people can see how to play him.
@@ValueNetwork honestly I think Smash 4 DK is good where in some MUs such as Sheik, Marth, Cloud he gives them trouble while against characters like Bayo, Sonic, Fox and Mewtwo, he gets crapped on. Seeing Spin dash into dair on DK Will never not be funny
25:40 game and watch is not that bad in smash 4, i mean, he's kinda lackluster, but the worst version of game and watch when the melee version exsists? Because despite him being a mid tier in the most recent melee tier list, he was considered a bottom tier in litteraly every other melee tier list
@@TheTrixster690 Ness was very weak in both of those games. 64 Ness is arguably the worst in the game occupying the infamous Link/Luigi/Ness trio that will always be bottom 3. Brawl Ness has better normals but an abhorrent matchup spread where if the opponent is playing certain characters Ness just can't do anything at all.
@@TheTrixster690 no, ness is not a good character in smash 64, he's a low tier in that game, and his recovery is not his only weakness, he's also slow and light. And ness in brawl wasn't good, just kind off OKEY (pun intended)
honestly smash 4's mid and mid-high tiers hit the perfect sweet spot. they were solid, fun and unique without being busted if the entire game had been brought to that level the balance would have been flawless
Gladly someone finally said it. Smash 4 is G&W worst version. Not Melee. Other than the points you just mentioned, Sm4sh G&W has no kill power at all except for downthrow up air. Melee G&W while being defensively probably the worst Smash character in history, got such good kill power and combo and edgeguarding in a game where one edgeguard can mean death. In Smash 4 his edgeguarding abilties are almost useless, cause if the edgeguard won't send your opponent straight up into the blast zone he will make it back, but then there is one problem none of those aerials for edgeguards have knockback in this game. A few weeks ago a turned Sm4sh on to see if G&W was actually that bad as I remembered and to my surprise it was even worse. His Fair was outrageous. Former one of his most common killing moves in Melee and Brawl and the Knockback ... I compared it, Captain Falcons Nair, a combo starter move, did kill earlier on the ledge on the same character in training mode than G&W Fair. Cardboardbox, key, turtle, fishes, all don't kill before 150% near the blast zone. Don't even get me started on center stage. Overall G&W in Sm4sh was a toned down version of his Brawl iteration, mainly by getting all kill power he once had rid of him. A gimmicky character that had to bring your opponent to the percents for toot toot and try to get it. That's all the character does. Remove toot toot and he will be a low tier in this game
I have been a Shulk main for years but really it was because back then I was playing casually and my brother and sister weren’t that good. Before the online shut down I really tried hard to use him on for glory and it just proved that he is hard to get good with him in competitive matches. If I decide to install prentendo maybe I’ll try again.
I just came here to say that I don’t care about Smash Bros competitively, but I greatly enjoy Smash Bros WiiU/3DS, and paid for both and played it during covid way more than Ultimate before I tried playing All-Star on hard difficulty as Ganondorf and slammed my already broken gamepad into my knee. Maybe that was late 2021, early 2022. I broke it the first time playing Mario Maker. You know how bad and hard stages were in the original game. Slammed my gamepad into my forehead. Earlier that day I tried completing Champions Road in Mario 3D World and slammed my gamepad into my forehead. Luckily it didn’t break.
Actually honest content from Olimar to Lucas are considered high tiers in Smash 4, not mid tiers. To me they actually are still very strong. Lucas imo is very underrated and beats a lot of characters above him. He definitely beats DK, Bowser, Tink, Luigi, Lucario, Ryu and Pikachu while going even with Mewtwo, Mario, Fox, MK. I honestly think Lucas does well against Bayo. These high tiers are still strong. Also Charizard has some good MUs in the top and high tiers. Yoshi to me is a sad case of people thinking his fair is everything and then it becomes his whole meta that when it starts getting played around, people think he is bad.
Lucas, just like ultimate, was one of those characters that was speculated to be a secret high tier with tons of potential. But no one ever did anything significant with him and ended up just being a talking point rather than proving his potential.
@@pancpop1603Actually I did play Lucas and played these MUs I'm not talking about his "potential" when it's actually there. The best Lucas players either don't travel as much or don't go to tournaments as often. A lot of people put down Lucas but I know he has it. The problem is that we see a lot of Lucas players who aren't optimized or are just starting out unlike the better ones who don't show up as much. It's similar to the Japanese players who are character loyalist but don't travel outside of Japan as much.
22:42 checkmate was dthrow up air not arcfire up air arcfire was actually kinda stinky in 4 it was pretty easy to escape with sdi arcthunder was way more reliable (cool vid otherwise tho)
He may have the worst recovery in the game, but his ground game was significantly better in smash 4 than in ultimate, like down tilt can easily combo into ko punch
Some friendly criticism, I think it's a missed opportunity when you mention DK's true kill confirm (a huge part of his kit) without presenting it in the video. And it's a shame you didn't mention it's known name Ding Dong.
Interesting take that you think smash 4 gnw is the worst version of gnw, what makes you think he’s worse than melee? (And i say this as someone who really likes playing melee gnw on slippi, and gnw in general for that matter)
@@ShadowGlizzardMoneyGang oh i agree 100%, but one thing many people don’t pay attention to is his weight. Sure in other smash games he’s still light but in melee it’s especially crippling because he only has a weight of 60, the same as jigglypuff, while in other games it has always been 75. Also the fact he can’t shield or have a good spotdodge on top of that does not help the situation either
@@thespinodino smash 4 is a generally very low execution game with some exceptions, I'm not asking for footstool stuff, I'm asking for basic bnbs, such as ding dong or bowser uthrow uair, both of which are incredibly simple and easy.
Kinda sucks that the 3DS limited this game more than needed.
I just wish they had an actual name, not "Super Smash Brothers for 3DS" and "Super Smash Brothers for Wii U" lol. That shit was so lame
couldve made 2 builds
@@burnerffx EXACTLY! but "Nooooooooooooo, we have to make them equals 🥴"
@@flyforce16 Well, they weren't left with an option. If they called the 3DS entry "Super Smash Bros Dimension" and the Wii U entry "Super Smash Bros Universe", they sound like completely different games, but they aren't. If they called them both "Super Smash Bros All Stars" then that wouldn't work either since they are very similar games, but not the exact same game.
Eh, the only real limit that mattered in anyway was Ice Climbers not getting in.
5:22 Bro that pivot grab range is legitimately disgusting
Bruh, diddy kong litteraly teleported onto bowser
Diddy Kong extended his legs to get grabbed by bowser.
I kinda wish someone would go into the different patches and the metas that formed from them. I feel like it would actually be pretty fun to go over the dominance of the infamous Hoo-ha and Shiek's 50/50 kill confirm
yoshi truly was the inkling of smash 4
No. Inkling was the Yoshi of Ultimate.
@@substitutedoll5224 Yoshi is much better than people perceived him to be
@@Mr__Jack based
15:34
"Yoshi as high as 2nd place" was only ever a thing on the crappy Eventhubs website which was always a terrible source for information even back in 2015.
The character truthfully had always languished in results compared to his fellow midtiers since the beginning and only really started to truly downward spiral once mid 2015 rolled around and Yoshi was still one of the only characters to never take a set off the PGR top 50. ( And the only character above low and bottom tier to never do so. )
Had Smash 4 kept going past EVO 2018, Yoshi would've kept dropping lower and lower until he sank to low tier and would've been worse than his Brawl iteration by a fair margin. It always pisses me off how they gutted his unique jump, his smash attacks, his tilts ( ESPECIALLY ftilt), his back air and his pivot grab game from Brawl all in the sake of "normalizing" him/making Yoshi easier to play, which only hurt him in the end.
Ultimate thankfully had amsa on the testing team to rectify these mistakes and treat him better but goddamn, Smash 4 Yoshi was like stockholm syndrome and THE posterchild for "potential" meme. Even moreso than fucking Shulk.
In the end, I'd personally put Smash 4 Yoshi around Falco's potency in the late meta. A character that looks fine on paper but falls apart in so many ways when viewed under a more focused lense. People just never knew how to properly fight Yoshi's smoke and mirrors until DLC dropped and Yoshi had more to contend with than just Diddy, Rosalina and a newly-buffed Marth, Lucina and Mewtwo.
Nah, Yoshi was a mid tier, and he wasn't gonna drop below that. He was a good character, but the meta developments (patches buffing characters drastically) and DLC really hurt him. He could have kept up with some buffs, but he got nothing. At least he is no longer mid in Ultimate, but an actual contender for top tier.
@@dragnjames2190 no I think what ruined Yoshi was the perception that his neutral was only fair. A lot of people in my community thought that was truly the only way to play the character when it wasn't.
Yoshi did have great mobility, strong combos and his Smash attacks weren't that bad.
He actually didn't do so bad against swordies like a lot of people thought. He could actually weave in and out, use his eggs or or double jump armor to take that out. He could also edge guard them.
He just wasn't given strong representation like in 64, Melee and now Ultimate.
Falco was done so unbelievably wrong in this game, feels almost disrespectful
@@ryukoprop Smash 4 Falco always felt like the character that the devs had the most scorn for from his Brawl iteration. Atleast Meta Knight had his ladder of death in 4. EVERYTHING about Falco was so fucking underbaked in 4.
Bowser's buffs felt like an apology after his tier placement in Melee and Brawl.
Little Mac feels like a joke but he was lucky to be a mid-tier.
Shame how Yoshi ended up becoming a literal mid-tier after being considered to be a top or high-tier...
I wish Roy still had his DED (Double Edge Dance) animations from Melee so that he wouldn't copy Marth's Dancing Blade's animations. The 3rd upwards input would've been fun to land a Meteor both onstage and offstage just like how PM did it, especially the latter since landing the meteor only worked on stage in Melee
22:47 checkmate was down throw up air not arcfire up air
When charizard got buffed so many people got match up checked when i kept using him. He was fun wished he stayed solo i miss the rock. I pissed off alot of people at my locals
Something to mention about Olimar is that in Sm4sh, his aerials acted like projectiles, meaning you could beat them out super easily with other aerials. Olimar is significant better in ultimate all because they fixed his aerials to be normal disjoints lmao
That is a cool concept and now that I have heard it I kinda wish they would have kept it.
DK was alright in smash 4, but he’s also very funny. A Chucky rage monster who lives at the top blast zone. This DK feels like an active attempt to take him back to how he was in Melee since brawl DK was… brawl DK.
Also Robin not having a visible meter on screen is so bizarre. It’s wild how robins biggest buff between games is just the fact that people can see how to play him.
@@ValueNetwork honestly I think Smash 4 DK is good where in some MUs such as Sheik, Marth, Cloud he gives them trouble while against characters like Bayo, Sonic, Fox and Mewtwo, he gets crapped on.
Seeing Spin dash into dair on DK Will never not be funny
So glad we finally hear something good abt bowser on this channel 😂
Smash 4 Bowser post buffs was insane
@@ZachHonestAs a Bowser main, I approve
25:40 game and watch is not that bad in smash 4, i mean, he's kinda lackluster, but the worst version of game and watch when the melee version exsists? Because despite him being a mid tier in the most recent melee tier list, he was considered a bottom tier in litteraly every other melee tier list
melee gamer watch straight up did not function
ultimate g and w is goated lol
Every Link has the projectile invincibility property on shield. Also, I miss sm4sh Luigi...
Yeeee, ness is finally a good character in competitive play
Ness was good in 64 and Brawl. The only issue in 64 was his recovery.
@@TheTrixster690
Ness was very weak in both of those games. 64 Ness is arguably the worst in the game occupying the infamous Link/Luigi/Ness trio that will always be bottom 3. Brawl Ness has better normals but an abhorrent matchup spread where if the opponent is playing certain characters Ness just can't do anything at all.
@@TheTrixster690 no, ness is not a good character in smash 64, he's a low tier in that game, and his recovery is not his only weakness, he's also slow and light.
And ness in brawl wasn't good, just kind off OKEY (pun intended)
Ness was viable in Japanese Smash 64.
C Tier = High Tier...
D & E Tiers = Mid-Tiers
Thank you I was telling him that myself
Isn’t that what he said?
He said that at the beginning of the vid
@@alphabet_god1175 yeah but if you don't watch it then it will confuse people. Also why not just lap these guys with other high tiers.
@@mandalorianhunter1People who didn’t watch are going to be not in the loop regardless
somehow my sauceless dark pit was used as b-roll footage before my godlike ness
honestly smash 4's mid and mid-high tiers hit the perfect sweet spot. they were solid, fun and unique without being busted
if the entire game had been brought to that level the balance would have been flawless
Rob is awesome in 4
Gladly someone finally said it. Smash 4 is G&W worst version. Not Melee. Other than the points you just mentioned, Sm4sh G&W has no kill power at all except for downthrow up air. Melee G&W while being defensively probably the worst Smash character in history, got such good kill power and combo and edgeguarding in a game where one edgeguard can mean death. In Smash 4 his edgeguarding abilties are almost useless, cause if the edgeguard won't send your opponent straight up into the blast zone he will make it back, but then there is one problem none of those aerials for edgeguards have knockback in this game. A few weeks ago a turned Sm4sh on to see if G&W was actually that bad as I remembered and to my surprise it was even worse. His Fair was outrageous. Former one of his most common killing moves in Melee and Brawl and the Knockback ... I compared it, Captain Falcons Nair, a combo starter move, did kill earlier on the ledge on the same character in training mode than G&W Fair. Cardboardbox, key, turtle, fishes, all don't kill before 150% near the blast zone. Don't even get me started on center stage.
Overall G&W in Sm4sh was a toned down version of his Brawl iteration, mainly by getting all kill power he once had rid of him. A gimmicky character that had to bring your opponent to the percents for toot toot and try to get it. That's all the character does. Remove toot toot and he will be a low tier in this game
The mid tier can surprise players in this game.
Yeah, you are right, mr game and watch is in the lower end of the mid tier yet maister still won the tournament "combobreaker 2018"
Shoutouts to Marcus for winning Supernova 2024 with solo Ness
I have been a Shulk main for years but really it was because back then I was playing casually and my brother and sister weren’t that good. Before the online shut down I really tried hard to use him on for glory and it just proved that he is hard to get good with him in competitive matches. If I decide to install prentendo maybe I’ll try again.
God I miss ssb4 Lucas, they did him dirty in Ssbu :(
LITERALLY, like why can’t down throw combo into nair anymore??? Such a goated combo
It was SDI-able anyways to a ridiculous extent.
The real one who got murdered was meta knight. Give me back kill confirms
@@baer5137 djcz:am I joke to you?
@@Dbxndzz-re1sr I mean yeah its funny and pretty strong but nintendo 100% did not intend to have a frame 1 tech on Lucas
@ he’s still fun as hell to play. Plus pk freeze literally sent u into free fall in ssb4
I just came here to say that I don’t care about Smash Bros competitively, but I greatly enjoy Smash Bros WiiU/3DS, and paid for both and played it during covid way more than Ultimate before I tried playing All-Star on hard difficulty as Ganondorf and slammed my already broken gamepad into my knee. Maybe that was late 2021, early 2022.
I broke it the first time playing Mario Maker. You know how bad and hard stages were in the original game. Slammed my gamepad into my forehead. Earlier that day I tried completing Champions Road in Mario 3D World and slammed my gamepad into my forehead. Luckily it didn’t break.
I mained Charizard at first and then switched to Mewtwo and Marthcina co-main
Actually honest content from Olimar to Lucas are considered high tiers in Smash 4, not mid tiers.
To me they actually are still very strong.
Lucas imo is very underrated and beats a lot of characters above him. He definitely beats DK, Bowser, Tink, Luigi, Lucario, Ryu and Pikachu while going even with Mewtwo, Mario, Fox, MK. I honestly think Lucas does well against Bayo.
These high tiers are still strong.
Also Charizard has some good MUs in the top and high tiers.
Yoshi to me is a sad case of people thinking his fair is everything and then it becomes his whole meta that when it starts getting played around, people think he is bad.
Lucas, just like ultimate, was one of those characters that was speculated to be a secret high tier with tons of potential. But no one ever did anything significant with him and ended up just being a talking point rather than proving his potential.
@@pancpop1603Actually I did play Lucas and played these MUs
I'm not talking about his "potential" when it's actually there.
The best Lucas players either don't travel as much or don't go to tournaments as often.
A lot of people put down Lucas but I know he has it. The problem is that we see a lot of Lucas players who aren't optimized or are just starting out unlike the better ones who don't show up as much. It's similar to the Japanese players who are character loyalist but don't travel outside of Japan as much.
Next is smash ultimates top tiers
I would never call sm4sh Bowser or DK mid tiers tbh
lucas actually being decent in this game makes me smile
22:42 checkmate was dthrow up air not arcfire up air
arcfire was actually kinda stinky in 4 it was pretty easy to escape with sdi arcthunder was way more reliable (cool vid otherwise tho)
The game that made Bowser finally good!
Still shocked that Little Mac wasnt the worst character in SSB4 LOL
He may have the worst recovery in the game, but his ground game was significantly better in smash 4 than in ultimate, like down tilt can easily combo into ko punch
@@Sigma_God4884 That's also true in SSBU, although it stops being true at about 80% or so (but then why are you using KO at all?)
Little mac isn't even a terrible character, it's just his recovery that's bad
It does not make any sense to me why palu's customd weren't legal
Because no customs were legal
Customs were banned because of how unbalanced they were, with some like Villager's making the game less enjoyable to play and watch
could you imagine how good Wario would've been had they left Wectoring in the game
3:46 Why did P2 got corrupted lol
Some friendly criticism, I think it's a missed opportunity when you mention DK's true kill confirm (a huge part of his kit) without presenting it in the video. And it's a shame you didn't mention it's known name Ding Dong.
roy being in e tier is so evil
3:04 you mean Ding Dong
Robin in ultimate lost so many of his combos that he’s not an interesting character anymore
Wdym, Lucas in smash 4 was better, and ness is actually stronger in ultimate
Kirby is my favorite Super Smash Brothers character!
Missed opportunity to name the vid “How Mid are Smash 4’s Mid tiers?”
I only really played low tiers in sm4sh
4:40 Anti vs Hyuga 💀💀💀
Trela,Anti, Hyuga and Taiheta what a time to remember them. Some of them went out in shame some of them went as such chads (Taiheta my goat ngl)
They did Anti dirty like so many others, oh well at least Nintendo is giving American smashers what they deserve.
Interesting take that you think smash 4 gnw is the worst version of gnw, what makes you think he’s worse than melee?
(And i say this as someone who really likes playing melee gnw on slippi, and gnw in general for that matter)
Game and Watch in melee would've been solidly high tier without the shitass shield and lack of L cancel on most of his aerials
@@ShadowGlizzardMoneyGang oh i agree 100%, but one thing many people don’t pay attention to is his weight. Sure in other smash games he’s still light but in melee it’s especially crippling because he only has a weight of 60, the same as jigglypuff, while in other games it has always been 75.
Also the fact he can’t shield or have a good spotdodge on top of that does not help the situation either
The world heals every time Honest drops!
Huh? No Pac-Man?
PAC-Man is a low tier.
Pac is a bad character in smash 4
Pac man absolutley sucks in this game
Can you please at least learn the combos youre trying to showcase
cry about it
In other words; learn combos for every character in every game.
@@thespinodino smash 4 is a generally very low execution game with some exceptions, I'm not asking for footstool stuff, I'm asking for basic bnbs, such as ding dong or bowser uthrow uair, both of which are incredibly simple and easy.
Oh well?
Or just use tournament footage