This Chainplate is Rubbish [E85]
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.พ. 2025
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![Why we built CARBON CHAINPLATES [E86]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FG4wTvEKJ0k/mqdefault.jpg)
![Why we built CARBON CHAINPLATES [E86]](/img/tr.png)
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For those worried about the glue joint: The published shear strength of Gel-Magic gluing to polyester (hull fiberglass) is 2800 psi. The ORIGINAL V1 shroud had a breaking strength of 28,600 kg / 62,920 lbs. So... you'd need 62,920 lbs / 2800 psi = 22 square inches bond area (if everything is perfect). The chainplate bonding area is about 5x that. So we are not relying on the bond being perfect. AND the boat will have a much lower righting moment because keel will be reduced in draft. So the shroud will have lower loads. Oh, and the typical sailing load of the shroud is not the breaking strength of the shroud, it's only ~20% of the breaking strength. So you have another 5x factor reduction on the load too. There are some very big safety factors here. Then Matt is going to bond many many layers of solid fiberglass over the chainplate. Sort of belt and suspenders. So even if the glue all failed, the fiberglass over top will hold it on....
Thanks for the numbers. This is a big help, for me at least.
Oh and an idea for the bad chainplate: make a skateboard. Or an emergency tiller.
Love your project love what you do and am really interested in this bit, and know very little about these things, I understood when fixing something like a carbon fibre chain plate (or foam or plywood)to a fibreglass part especially the hull, you should introduce a layer of chopped strand mat to make the joint proper. I know filled epoxy is either filled with fibres or microspheres, I’m hoping you can tell us that epoxy thickened with micro fibres makes a joint stronger than a chopped strand epoxy layer? Thanks for sharing the numbers gems like that are so useful to fo calculations. Thanks for sharing, love your work!
@@mikeroberts1219 Well if you're using epoxy you generally never use mat (it does not dissolve the binders holding most mat together). Mat is generally used for (a) building up thickness fast (b) in between layers of heavy woven roving to squish between the layers of the heavy fibers and help hold them together. Both of these uses are with polyester resin which has much lower material properties as a glue. Yes, you can thicken epoxy with milled fibers to strengthen it, but in Matt's case he used a epoxy adhesive that is really designed as a strong glue. Mat (the fiber not to be confused with Matt the builder) has pretty poor properties as a gluing agent and so I'd never use it on a high performance boat.
Wow incredible knowledge, there’s so much to know about glassing up even small components. I’m glassing up a foam cored cabintop/sunshade and was considering including a layer of 6mm plywood on the topside between the foam and the woven roving to make the surface more rigid under foot for accessing the boom and a bit more impact resistance, I’ve got really heavy cloth for this, but was recommended to include a layer of chopped strand both to stick the plywood to the foam and between the ply and the woven roving for better adhesion, but maybe I don’t need to. I’m looking at Matt’s cabin top and though the curve is going to give it a lot of added stiffness he doesn’t seem concerned about it being a trafficable surface. Thanks for all the great information. Mike
The family that epoxie's together, sticks together.
😂...very good!
love it!!! 🤣
Embarrassingly sticky 😅
You should use the chain plate that you won’t use to test its breaking point! This will give you a great idea of its true strength!
Great idea
That's a really good idea.
That would be a terrifying test though
Was going to suggest the same thing "stress test" the unused chai plate
This is exactly what I was going to say! Find out how strong it is so you have an idea of the others!
Rejected Chainplate.
How about testing it to destruction?
That would give you a HUGE sense of security.
That was my first thought, but how? Maybe you can rent a couple locomotives.
That would be interesting, and make great footage. But that would take a serious test rig to exceed all the design safety margins on load, material properties, fabrication tolerances, etc, etc. Likely the pin will shear first, I don't see that bomb-proof lamination tearing in two. 4 shear surfaces on the pin, each 1.25 inch or so in diameter, 50-80 t capacity or so. So that takes a rig of 100 t + to break it.
Yaaas
let @howNOT2 have a crack at it that would be cool to see. I'm sure he has the tools to test this to failure and measure every step along the way!
Could go find the shooting range that we can hear in the back ground and ask the nice rednecks to play tug o war with their mud trucks
And when that doesnt break it you can start with a 22lr and move on up to 50 cal
You could make a lot of little, non loadbearing pieces from the chain plate. Handles, levers, knobs, drawer pulls, etc.
So nice to have your parents participating in this project. Good on ya!!
"Use an embarrassing amount of glue" ... Reminds me of another You-tuber & Facebook that I follow -- "If the glue isn't squishing out everywhere on your joint, you haven't used enough!" (James King, Kings Fine Woodworking)
Tough call to replace that chainplate but I think you’ll be happy that you did. Those are amazing parts that you’ve fabricated!! Well done!!!
When you busted out the sawzall to cut that I was screaming internally
“Use a band saw!!!” Sawzall is for demo and cuts you don’t care about.
Also. That naughty inspector messing with the dogs is awesome.
Or a thin cutoff wheel with a grinder easy to make precise cuts with little effort
I would auction it off. With a picture of the two of you and your parents plus the logo of the Duracell project. This is such a special build!!! You are all amazing!!❤
good idea!
I'll bet a shop with a high pressure water jet could cut through something like that if you have similar projects in the future.
My thoughts as well that would be the best way to go
your wife rocks the camera well. really love these updates. can't wait to see you guys cruising the Caribbean!
The ventilation setup basically is a very large dorade box. And I believe you have the benches sloping up so any water has a very hard time making its way down. Approved.
Hi guys , still think after bonding and glassing the chain plates you should bolt as well no matter what’s on top it’s only as strong as the first coat. Don’t forget the glass on the original hull is old and maybe brittle. Sorry to sound negative
I would enjoy hearing Matt's comments regarding this.
I'll bet the glued chain plate is adequate until the boat reaches the middle of the Pacific. Adding bolts sounds like the perfect solution. The bond between the chain plate and the hull is my concern, not the strength of the carbon fiber.
the hull in that spot has been made solid fiberglass (I took out the foam and replaced with fiberglass) to carry the load of the chainplate into the hull. It's solid fiberglass so that the laminate will not tear out of the hull. The surface area of the chainplate with the published sheer strength of the epoxy that we used is equal to the strength of the chainplate itself. We've engineered this with a naval architect and it's much stronger than it needs to be.
Great episode, as always. I'd use the non-usable chainplates for pressure testing, especially for the bond between the plate and the hull; glue the chainplate to a mockup of the hull in the same way you are gluing the others to the boat and get it tested. Gives you peace of mind later when sailing the boat.
That's my worry about carbon fiber chain plates. Their strength is not a concern, but their ability to bond to the boat is.
@@MH55YT Agreed, that is why I would do exactly that. The chainplate itself is probably fine with its tensile strength; it is made for the job. So the term "pressure testing" I used in the initial comment is misleading (maybe I have seen too many of these submersible videos lately). I would be more concerned about the torsion of the chainplate towards the lamination with the boat, as I assume that the tensile forces coming from the rigging are coming from several directions, so torsion is the second greatest (the first being the tensile force itself) stress on this kind of assembly. (Disclaimer, I am not an engineer or a naval architect). Thank you for clarifying.
Positioning blocks for glue-ups. You can make them pointed so they contact the part with an edge rather than a side. They come off easier and you can get in an fillet the extra glue easier.
Use the bad chain plate as your emergency tiller arm!
Glad to see the chainplates going on the boat. As for the failed chainplate I think it should be decorated to commemorate the Duracell Project and auction it off with a silent auction. I love your channel.
I love the fact your parents are joining in with you and filmed it, that will be one hell of a memory one day man enjoy it 🙏🏽
Matt, fabulous instructional episode on Carbon Chainplate building.
Your mum knows what she is doing!! So lucky to have her on board 👍
Such a fascinating part of the build!!!
use the chainplate to test your design.. bond it with epoxy to something stable and test the load to separate/destroy it. I've been pondering about the hull/chainplate bond..
Good Videos and an Interesting Project, I think You should add 3 encapsulated stainless Pins in the hull, thru the chainplate, They will not be seen but add a Lot of security.⛵
I would be tempted to use it as a really nice anchor chain guide for your windless…just add a grove or sides.
You are all such an inspiration.
(6:12) Kitty! Sorry if I've missed any of your epsoides - been busy - glad to see the kitty though! Made me smile.
Welcome back, George!
Yet another great video, great to see the whole family helping
My idea for the unusable chainplate is a bit left field…
The “La Paz Ladder” could hinge off the sugar scoop into the water just in case of COB cat over board so there is a way to get back on board with paws.
Idea comes from a frog ladder we made for the pool so they could get out and not drown in the filter
Duracell is really coming along, great progress, you should have a sanding hour counter for each week to show how much pre prep has to be done
Thank you
Ben Thomas
Sydney, Australia
we like out of left field ideas, especially ones related to La Pawz! That's a good one!
Oh the magic of youtube. And here is the new chain plate, ....the hours a labor..... Great work
Use the rejected chain plates to test the shear strength of the glue bond between the chain plate and the hull. Epoxy the rejected chain plates together nose to tail matching the hull curves the same way you epoxied the new set to the hull. Send the test structure to a testing lab to see how much force is needed to shear the epoxy bond between the two chain plates. This would simulate the load of the rig trying to pull the chain plates out of the boat. Compare the result to the predicted rig loads. Better to find out now than later. I think a better, more secure design would find a way to transfer the rig loads to the ring frames as in the original chain plate design. I do admire your ingenuity, attention to detail and the explanations you provide. Good work!
You could also wrap the test assembly with fiberglass laminate to simulate the fiberglass laminate you plan to apply over the chain plates.
It's so cool to see you so cool headedly putting in this absolutely critical part of the boat that all your lives will literally depend on. I'd trust my life to it though. The way it's built, I think the whole side of the boat would come off before a chainplate broke. I don't know what you guys think, but as a viewer, it's easy to imagine both of you sailing on this and enjoying it. Oh, I also like the wood you added to the steps, it looked like you were gonna bust through the steps a few episodes ago.
Great episode. Great videography and editing. And great music. Thanks guys! Fabulous channel.
Thanks Greg, and thanks for your support😊
It so Awesome to see Mom &Dad help you Out Matt. Chainplate add a Rod to it and use it in the Front where the Rope Locker is the Hang all the Rope on the T Rod. Or make one more and use them has support for the dinghy ?
Add some screening to cap your venting to the outside to make sure you don’t get troublesome insects in the boat. As for vermin, I would make the screening more robust.
While the chainplate isn't safe for certain applications, there has to be a clever functional use for it on Duracell; my gut reaction says some kind of lifting davit.
As already mentioned in an earlier comment use the damaged chain plate to test its breaking point but also glue it to a surface replicating the boat and laminate the very same as it would be on the boat then do a load test until it fails whilst recording it’s breaking point . It will give you peace of mind knowing how well the glue and laminate hold it would be really interesting too see a video of this test maybe in the near future 🤞… great work as always
Love your choice of music organ in particular 😊 also puppies and cat with their strange politics
Matt, nice work on the chain plates. Clearly you are advancing the original design of the boat and I am hoping to better understand how these changes will impact overall weight, sailing characteristics, draft, safety etc. in the big picture. As boat building goes, you got me hooked dude! 😃
If someone asked what music to use while epoxying I’d never have guessed lounge electric organ / drum combo… but it works! 😂 Love your work guys👍
Like some have mentioned.... The last thing I'd want on an ocean cruising sailboat....is a 3" hidden hole that I can't stop water getting in. Just put a venting porthole in the bulkhead.... you'll have better fresh air & natural light too ! I'm a firm believer in having both a mechanical bond with critical structural laminate bonds.....a set of thru bolted connections at each CF chainplate would be a good safety factor for peace of mind, IMO.
Is the dog a Picard? What a lovely dog 🐕 I‘m melting 😊❤! The lost chainplate… May you could build a cool starling disk attachment riser from it? Or how you plan on staying connected when on your cruise? Guess active pushing out and a fan if possible acoustically insulated as far out as possible… For reaching perfect air having a second pipe to suck passive air in to compensate for the actively sucked out air and having a distance between intake and outtake in the cabin would be idle. But most important for good air management: active out and passive in to optimize it further create an Hepa filter box for a cheap industrial grade H14 filter cassette to have clean air even in smelly marinas.
Carframo fans are great, low power and good air flow. When you start looking at through hull fittings, have a look at Tru Design. They are great. Good job mate.
Wow tough decisions! Stay the course with what you are comfortable with Captain! Good call! 👍👍
Those chainplates, bet you're delighted to get that project done an dusted. Have to admit though when I heard Matt say he was glueing those to the boat I felt like is that enough? But my ignorance and wisdom tells me to not question the things that I don't know anything about. But I think that they will be rock solid, probably better than the originals, all this is so fascinating to me!! Lovely episode, and wishing you well, sending good energy...Neil.
The chain plates look great!
I do wonder, though - should the stainless steel piping laminated into it corrode, how would you go about replacing it?
Thanks! Already looking forward to the next episode 🙏
It’s so cool watching Matt over time master the skills of epoxy and glassing
When cutting the slots in the chain plates how about using a band saw with a water stream to cool it.
Very informative and interesting, as usual. Why couldn't you have used the epoxy squeeze out to form a fillet around the chainplate to both strengthen the joint and provide a radius for the reinforcing fiberglass?
I would think that if you did your chainplate notch cuts with the chainplate under a few inches of water, just the blade could extend down into the water and it would stay quite cool.
Construct a sailing dinghy for Duracell and your XS chainplate could be the stem for it. Do you think it would be strong enough to use as the painter attachment point for towing it? ;)
Or contact Lloyds of London maritime insurance company and see if they would be interested in testing it's strength.
I'll take it and make a plant hangar or a bug zapper over hanging in my lanai it would look amazing when I'm done.....😊 but I'm sure you'll find a good use for it. I even thought about rigging to my palm tree and fixing a floating mailbox essentially.
With the addition of some crossbars would make an interesting flip up ladder.
When passing Portugal, tow the duff chainplate as a distraction for the Orcas.
The scrap chainplate may be accepted by the inspector for use as boarding plank either from a dinghy or a marina. Although an appropriate two way pivot may be required.
I wonder if you have considered adding some portholes in the hull in the saloon quarter / berth, it would provide a connection to the outside and some light.
Yes, we will be adding ports to the hull!
I always avoid expensive or difficult projects when I first get going in the shop. Seems like that is when I make the most mistakes. Better to warm up like a ball player before tackling the technical stuff.
Bummer about loosing the chainplates. If you have four, they can be used as very large tent stakes, for a very large tent.
My concern was not the glue joint in shear but in tension. Isn't there some angular force placing the joint in tension when rigged particularly at the top where the plate meets the top edge of the hull glass ...maybe just one heretical, mechanical fastener.😇..SS or Titanium bolt at the top to prevent a tension peel
Because of the diagonals angle to the hull topsides I wouldn't hesitate to put some peel arresters (bolts through hull) at the top of D1 chainplates... cheap insurance in my view.
Nice teamwork. Great. BR
Use it for.....
Backsplash
Bow protector? Anchor guard, keel bottom skid gaurd. Rudder protective guard, rod holder, a mount for Starlink.
Great episode! Nice job on the new chainplates!! looks amazing Duracell team!! 👍👍
Hello from Ontario Canada, I’d also suggest using the botched chain plate as a test bed to see what stresses it can withstand, specifically in regards to repetitive stress/relief cycles (a la- submarine failure)
Otherwise, could it be modified as a carbon fibre emergency tiller handle?
As far as ventilation for the quarter berth, why not extend a pipe straight up the inside corner of the cabin protruding through the coach house roof to a dorado vent which can be pivoted to catch the best wind angle? That a fan isn’t always needed?
Cheers
Why not put a elbow pipe at end for ventilation, or put two and and come to a wall or on top at 1/2 inch of space so the water won't have or maybe a little bit have the chance to enter...
Hey Neil. regarding your thought about whether glueing to the boat is strong enough: the hull in that spot has been made solid fiberglass (I took out the foam and replaced with fiberglass) to carry the load of the chainplate into the hull. It's solid fiberglass so that the laminate will not tear out of the hull. The surface area of the chainplate with the published sheer strength of the epoxy that we used is equal to the strength of the chainplate itself. We've engineered this with a naval architect and it's much stronger than it needs to be.
That chainplate might make a cool tiller for a smaller boat. You could cut it down to make 3 tillers maybe?
Just totally enjoy the process
Not in every case it makes sense to use vacuum infusion. It was better to just make spacers from the boards to press the plates to the side. Pressing is stronger than with vacuum and gluing will be stronger.
I have always had a wall of shame and destruction on my shop wall. Busted dirt bike parts and everything else I messed up, it was in a light hearted manner friends wood hang there parts as well
@19:19 It might be an idea to, not even glue, but fit an elbow on it to prevent anything falling in from the locker.
I would like to see that chainplate tested to destruction. Be interesting to see just what it can manage
Will need a pretty serious test setup.
Great video about the chain plates. The vacuum system is also very cool! Maybe you could tell us where and how they were made, and how much does custom carbon fiber cost in general? Also, how about a Q&A with Judy? There are not many men or woman willing to get their hands dirty doing boat work, but now we see her often helping out! So impressive.....AND, she finally put a stop to the "embarrassing amount of glue" joke!! Hahahahah! DD
Matt made the chain plates himself. The man is a lamination wizard.
@@barneyhartman-glaser6972 Very, Very cool!! DD
On our AC project in 2001 we tapered the chainplates out to either side. Why did you create this massive blocks of carbon and now you have this step besides them which needs to be bonded to the hull extra strong. With in place tapered chainplates I believe you'd achieved both the same time.
Giant strides, you have to be feeling good about the progress and seeing the important parts almost done!
leaf spring for the boat trailer😅
I'm sure someone has mentioned it, if you cut a "v" shape into the tip of the nozzle, you'll get a consistent size bead continually.
When using adhesives, a good rule of thumb is, if some is good, more is better and too much is just right.
Would have said get a machine shop to cut the slots but it sounds like you got it done
With the amount the chain plate is overbuilt, you could still use it. Perfection is the enemy of good!
You should both sign it and auction it off. That way you can gain some additional proceeds for the project!
There is no way the glue and the lamination would hold that extreme tension for an extended period of time.. i hope I'm wrong... best of luck buddy.. love the project.❤
the hull in that spot has been made solid fiberglass (I took out the foam and replaced with fiberglass) to carry the load of the chainplate into the hull. It's solid fiberglass so that the laminate will not tear out of the hull. The surface area of the chainplate with the published sheer strength of the epoxy that we used is equal to the strength of the chainplate itself. We've engineered this with a naval architect and it's much stronger than it needs to be.
@TheDuracellProject yeah I've been following the progress from day one.. fascinating. Bless 🙌
Great progress this week and I’m thinking that the costing for the total chain plates installation is probably the most embarrassing 😂😂😂 love the canine guests too.🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺
Thanks for all your videos and hard work! Sorry if i overlooked such video, but do you have one were you describe step by step how to do strong fiberglassed foam sandwich? With some tips and tricks how to avoid bad results. Thanks in advance for your answer!
I did a fiberglassing basics video but I don’t have a step by step for sandwich foam construction. One day we might try to make some more how to vids.
@@TheDuracellProject Thanks for the detailed reply. I'm slowly researching vacuum bagging as a part of preparation to diy build of foam core 18ft catamaran. What vacuum pump you are using and what models you can recommend?
So to displace the stress and force from the chain plates you are creating a massive fiberglass and carbon anchor to the hull. I don’t think the chain plates will fail, I would think worse case they would sheer off the hull, Just my two cents…. Really cool how you are doing this.
I suggest putting the chain plate on an on line auction to raise some funds for the project.
Just a suggestion, round over the termination points on the slots to avoid shear points, twisting may cause cracks In sharp corners.
it's an exciting project you're working on, and the idea of making a chainplate in carbon is good, but you'll never get it glued in, so the gluing matches the strength of the chainplate, regardless of how many layers of fiberglass you put on top, it's still only two glue surfaces that hold them in place, namely the layer of glue you just glued them to the hull and the first layer of epoxy you laminate the first layer of fiberglass with, hope it will last
i'm not worried, it has been engineered. i didn't explain this well in the video, but i'll talk more about this next week.
I think the failed chain plate might be useful as a hinge or an arm. There’s already a hole for the pin to reside…. Now where would you use such a large hinge? Life raft locker, fold down swim platform or arm for the BBQ to bolt to.
I would keep that as a backup in case of a catastrophic failure... lol. If the laminated chainplate comes off of the boat I doubt you'll be worried about a replacement.
Just hope you don't have to remove them for some reason. Matt, it could be a big pain mate, looking pretty wicked but ... great work
Matt i am aware of you being pretty experienced boat builder, in light of recent events, have you looked into any possibility of electro static shocks, explosions say caused by lightning - i guess with a mast either in carbon fibre or aluminium there must be some possibility of a strike, i guess even with the original stainless steel chain plates it might still happen, but i was reading about electro static failures when conditions are right, metals against carbon fibre, some instances of corrosion, contact with salt water and an ignition source could lead to failure, think we have all seen some failures of this in aviation where tolerances are perhaps somewhat higher than they might be required on the boat, but never the less the question is there if you know of an answer
all stainless steel is insulated from the carbon with fiberglass...so no corrosion. We will have to install lightning protection that jumps the rigging to the water passed the chainplates.
hi !!! loving so so so much your adventure!!!! you ve got all of my wish for you to enjoy what you are doing!IT'S AMAZING, maybe to late to suggest that, but i woud like to know what do you think about my tought on those carbon chainplate: you are laminating everythink, wedding them to the skin, could you have done some step, some thikker part on the extrem botton of the chainplates? for some kind of ancoring? hope you undestand that, happy to show you my idea on cad if curios.. thanks for making those videos.... tanti auguri per tutte le vostre avventure sul gioiello che state creando!!!!
Sorry don’t understand your question
Good you identified the error.
Being a mechanical engineer and tool and Diemaker for 40 years if I can suggest find a machine shop to mill out the slots. The bottom of the slot should have a full radius this will give you far superior strength. By having straight corners at the bottom of your slots you are creating a very weak point. Straight corners will always be the first place to develop cracks and eventually fail.
I, for one, recommend you change the nomenclature from ‘chain plate’ to ‘mammoth bone’; those things are awesome!
what is that thing on your kitty's neck? just curious... great job, love the channel, can't WAIT to see the boat splash after all this hard work :-) keep up the good work
anti-kill bib. when not inspecting, she hunts and the bib prevents her from killing birds and other creatures
I was thinking the little cabin behind the cockpit chair would make a great space for keeping a fishing rod or two. Great work guys.
I like this idea much better than a fresh air supply tube.
You can still use it for a really big hinge
@17:45 the sound of Matt’s snapping knees… identified by a fellow snapping knee owner.
How about destructive testing it glued to simulated hull. Might give you piece of mind for the future.
Test the chain plate to destruction! Any large pieces, maybe you can cnc mill some soft shackle bases, or other small parts
Why so little surface area for the mating surfaces of the carbon chainplates? Its like you are glueing a 1" x 4" to the hull of the boat. Why not a 1"x12" tapered laterally?"
Bolts thru composite chainplates are never used. Composite chainplates have been used for decades, in high end racing boats that race around the world, with much, much higher loads and much, much lower safety factors on the structure to save weight.
What is the triangular bib on your cat ?. My two have bells and reflective name tags, but they are bringing me home 'gifts' both dead and alive. I can no longer leave the doors and windows downstairs open. I was curious about the bib and how it works ??? nice work on the carbon chainplates, gland your 1st error did not knock you back to much, we all learn by our errors !
The bib makes the inspector too awkward to kill. We don’t enjoy her gifts and the bib really does work!