Is Tone Master Pro Easier Than Quad Cortex? Fender Neural DSP Comparison
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ค. 2024
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TMP - www.zzounds.com/a--3979426/it...
Quad Cortex - sweetwater.sjv.io/LX4dzZ
Is Tone Master Pro Easier Than Quad Cortex?
I put the two side by side in a head to head comparing ways to make a preset or make adjustments on the fly. This is no anecdotal experiment. It is just me messing with the two and comparing how to get things you may need to get done!
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00:00 Intro
2:00 Basic Comparison & Finding Presets
3:50 Building Basics Amp and Cabs
7:15 Cab section Comparison
8:29 Adding a Pedal and HUGE BUG ON TMP
10:50 Losing your floorboard during edits..
13:53 Assigning Footswitches
14:38 TMP is GREAT until you pass the basics...
15:50 Parameter control
17:34 Complex Preset comparison
19:00 Weird single line on TMP
20:09 TMP WAY easier to adjust on the fly
22:43 Final thoughts and comparison... - เพลง
Hi Steve. Great video. You do great work, don't change a thing!!! Btw, I saw in the comments you're looking for an frfr cab. I got the fender fr-12, and I LOVE it...
Thanks so much Brian! I've got the 12 here actually 😅😅🤣
Soooooooo useful video ! Hardly wish Fender TM or NDQC developers will soon cast an eye on it, for their future firmware updates 🤔 I've been using Quad Cortex for 3 months. It's a great sounding unit, but the ergonomics on stage sucks, due to the proximity of footswiches, and there's some imperfections you mentioned in your detailed comparison... Very interested in Tone Master for its so explicit screen, IEC power and sturdy looking. It's a new product, with probably upcoming updates...
Great insight mate. Workflow is often overlooked in these machines by people who make reviews, and it's so important. It's all about UI and your "relationship" with the machine. Thanks for this.
Thanks for checking it out! I agree 100%
Holding out for (hopefully) a revised Helix with twice the DSP and touchscreen. 🤞
Great, informative video - along with the Helix vs TMP, I feel like you've presented the pro's and con's of the TMP, relative to the other modelers, about as well as it can be done. Hope you do one with the FM9, as well!
I do disagree that gapless preset switching has made snapshots/scenes unnecessary - for me, they still have a lot of value for organizing a preset. Just my opinion, of course - your statement could well be true with the way you use your modeler on a gig.
Thanks Roger! I can do one with FM9 soon. As for snaps vs seamless presets... i agree with your thought process, but you can organize the presets to be the same appearance as you would snapshots. Have 6 instances of the same preset saved with diff settings like snapshots, and still be able to bank to the next grouping
This makes me think I’ll wait for a touch screen helix.
Not like the Helix is gonna be any cheaper
This makes me think TMP is killer.
@@DaPoopIsInDaPuddingThe TMP kicks ass
One small thing I appreciate about this comparison: you have the QC and TMP side-by-side for long periods of time. Yes, that obviously compares the sizes, but that will impact how you interact with it live. Do you notice the “more compact” arrangement of the QC’s footswitches?
Worth saying if you accidentally change some parameters unintentionally or change your preset while in “edit” mode, the QC has an “undo option” up there right corner…actually it’s there until u save any changes you’ve made till that point.
Great points from each side 👏 I've used all of the helix and qc products and recently acquired a tmp. The only criticism I can give and please take it constructively; quad cortex has had several software revisions to improve efficiency and workflow, same with units like the helix... dozens of updates to polish it..the fact that the fender is slower 😑 yeah we all wish fender learned and implemented more lessons from other products, but I'm willing to give them time. Their first firmware update added tons of new features, and their planned Christmas release has me excited. I also never build a preset at a gig 😮 so I'm not sure if I care about saving a few seconds or a minute when building a preset...
This comment aged like wine.
Having played with mostly all of the modelers/profilers, we are in the age where they all sound good. It's easy to make them all sound good. I think it's coming down to workflow, apps and how it works for your needs. What none of them have mastered yet, is the amp in the room feel for home players. Fender is the closest to me so far, exceeding my line6 helix/powercab combo for this. Whoever gets that right first, will sell alot more to home players. It would be a big selling point to have 20 different amps that sound like an amp in the room, not a recording/IR of that amp. I did an initial impression video on it.
Great points! I think that race is for a proper cab designed for modelers. I hear good things about laney and quilter
Had mine for a few weeks and really pleased with it. Great for Cleans and even better for Ambient Guitar. Already created Guitar Synth and Ambient guitar patches and video's. Best Wishes 🎶🎶🎶🎶😎😎😎😎
Steve, you do such a great job of demystifying the complexities of the various modelers. I’ve been learning about my Helix Floor by watching you and was seriously considering buying the Tone Master Pro, until I watched this episode. Thanks for saving me $1,700, which I think I will likely invest in lessons with you.
Well he used the add block method on the TMP which is slow. You are supposed to press the left and right ‘+’ icons which brings the effects menus immediately rather than add block then ‘+’. Also, I can definitely say that the TMP amp models generally sound better than the helix,…more accurate. Lastly, In Australia, the TMP is $200 cheaper than the helix and $700 cheaper than the QC, believe it or not.
In terms of User Interface - for me: Helix >> Quad Cortex >> Tone Master Pro. The Helix is so much better thought through - the Line6 crew did an amazing job and it seems like thy actually put the unit in the hands of working, gigging musicians and gave it enough time to mature. Now, give us captures and more DSP to up the modeling quality and I take the Helix over anything else.
Can't argue it!
Yeah, I don't gig so I don't care about basically any of this. The Helix in a shootout though, time and again sounds SO terrible, almost as bad as a Headrush. For me it's all about can you trick me into thinking this is a real amp. The QC and the Kempers do that amazingly.
@fishingisawesome you can get good sounds out of all of them. Helix stuff works best for me. It doesn't need to be everyones go to 🤷♂️. Whatever makes ya happy
@12:50 the TMP bottom left foot switch says bypass and bypasses the block while editing parameters.
Thanks for this. I've learned I can get serviceable sounds out of even the most trash gear, so my main concern at this point is ease of use, especially in a gig or jam situation. Although fractal seems to be the king, I could never use one because I can't be diving into menus when a bandmate calls for a tune not on the set list.
Headrush Prime/Core units are the best in terms of user experience and functionality. Metronome and practice tools come in clutch for me. Plus you can tap the preset name then scroll to change presets 😂
If only it had a desktop editor the Core would have been perfect for me. Hopefully HR will get on it now that QC and Fender both has one..
someone did demo that color button brightness adjustment, pretty sure I saw them show it. in the settings.
5:29 on QC, add a splitter at the end of lane 1 to the beginning of lane 2. Now you have 2 full lanes for guitar in lane 1 and 2.
I have that tip on my channel numerous times 😄. I just think its ridiculous to have to split a path, move it around, change the output, mute path A at the split. I just want an easier and faster workflow. Great addition to the conversation though for those that dont know
Sounds like Fender just needs to do a nice io Firmware Update and add those options in the future , Great review Thanks 😎✨🤙🏽
Thanks for checking it out. A few updates and its a beast!
hi nice video,
I think the TMP is out of the question for me,
certainly nice pictures on the display. But somehow it's not really important, the disadvantages in terms of operation outweigh the disadvantages.
At least I find the operation of the QC better and easier, more intuitive than the Helix and that's more than enough for me. The FM3 also has quick, good operation without colorful images.
For me that leaves L6 Helix.. and FM3
It would be great hearing your comments about how they compare to each other in terms of latency and "feel"
Yeah, the QC has a better UI. Got to say that Line 6 Helix Modelers got a lot of UI right, making them fast and easy to use.
One thing I’d like to see in all these units is room mics as opposed to room verb…and preferably theyre assignable to a separate output
Yes! Like the ox stomp has. I loved using that in my recent demo of it
@@SteveSterlacci ha yep. That video you did is what got me thinking about it. I really want to try it as a mixing tool for reamping in the QC. It’s just one of those real life recoding options that seems to be missing. I’m sure it’ll come out right after I sell it 😂
I use QC and recently figured out that you can set parameters changes like Helix Snapshots by holding down the parameter I want to change per snapshot.. I hope that makes since. It’s possible in scene mode but not stomp :/
Correct. Scene mode is identical to snapshots as far as I know, but can't do parameter controls in stomp
The quad cortex wins for me. It’s smaller. Better screen. Workflow is better. And it’s sounds better. Also you have the capture features.
Better screen?
@@DaPoopIsInDaPuddingyeah lol, I was thinking the same thing, definitely not better.
me too but I wish it had an integrated volume/expression/wah pedal.
Nice 👍
cool slippers bro
They had a tone master out on the floor yesterday. I goofed around with it. Not a fan of the touch screen. I much prefer joystick access and being able to have full control over my chain. It sure looks cool though but it's the same price as a helix. I'm gonna stick with Line 6 for now. I haven't had the opportunity to try the DSP
You haven't had a chance to try a Digital Signal Processor?
More gig vlogs Steve!
It is important that the QuadCortex is small.
It can be taken anywhere.
The lack of PC software (which will be introduced, it seems) can also be seen from a different perspective: the QuadCortex can be completed using only the main unit.
However, as you say, there is not much difference in sound quality among current high-end multi-processors, so I think it is a matter of taste.
I think it would be best to prioritize your needs, taking into consideration your intended use, environment, ease of use, cost performance, etc., and choose the one that you want to use and that seems easy to use.
Ultimately, thats what I try to help people with. The editor is now out and its great. The previous issue was having to put it on a desk or table, then move it to the floor, then pick it back up, or adjust on the floor. It was a royal PITA lol
TMP workflow will improve as time goes on but really not liking the touch screen contactivity. IMO fractals FM9 still leads the pack despite its more complex UI. These modelers should all have an external virtual FX type knob controller pedal option for live use.
At 12:56 you simply don’t see the "bypass"-button down left🤷♂️ maybe it’s too big 😅
I meant for other pedals on the board as well, not just the one being edited. But thanks for the heads up 😄
I read in the manual that the first two rows run on 2 cores and the bottom two run on the other two cores. I think they think that pushing everything in two cores would be too much. Maybe that's why they decided to only allow you to move from row 1 to row 3.
QC is way more flexible, but it’s also easier to mess up and pass unprocessed signal with the amp/cab signal.
I currently have both I don’t know what one I want to keep, I like the bluetooth on the tone master pro so I can practice to backing track with no computer. Quads cortex is awesome but dam it’s a hard choice
it is absolutely a hard choice. The layout of the floorboard on TMP is way better, QC has capture tech which rules and is pretty ahead in the sheer number of amps and fx in the unit. Very hard choice
@@SteveSterlacci do you know if there’s a way dude I can use backing tracks on the QC? I like to play along to my songs for practice, but can’t always use the unit with a pc to use in my daw.
Thanks for the reply, just can’t believe in this day and age there is no perfect one solution, they always seem to fall short on something lol
what about vs the fractal?
Not sure what even would be the point of comparing fractal when it comes to live workflow. Everyone knows fractal may sound the best, but its UI is by far the worst of any modern processor/modeler.
Not your mistake. There should be an editing mode. Always used to be with processors.
You don’t have to go “add block” with the TMP… just click the left or right ‘+’ icons on the signal path!
Its still the same amount of presses and you dont get to choose the locations of the fx
@@SteveSterlacci no it’s one less click. If you add block, you have to press the ‘+’ after to get to the effects menu. However, clicking the left or right ‘+’ gets you to the menu immediately. Please try this out with an empty preset!
Please test aliasing❤
I thought the Bassman was on helix as Tweed Blues model. Right? You should compare that model with your Bassman
Tweed blues is the same '59 bassman. Mine is a blonde. Different beasts 😃
@@SteveSterlacci omg... i know nothing about amps xD
Call me naive. I just like the tmp best because of its look and the cool graphics. I am shure it sounds good too.
So do I. I would prefer dual mics built-in but not a deal-breaker.
I think you’re better served with a computer and software… I watched the whole Video start to end and I just think these units give apples when all you want is oranges.
Can't believe they don't have a supersonic in the tone master pro.
It’s just released…..be reasonable.
Sold my QC becauase of the grounding issues and the empty promises from Neural about getting a propper replacement. I'd get another if they ever address the issue. In the mean time, Axe FX III it is!
That’s pretty bad…can’t understand why QC has grounding issues..
Never had grounding issues with the QC in the UK even with just headphones connected and I very rarely have an XLR connected.
Don't forget to buy a foot controller as well, trying to manage the control panel on a dark stage and navigating to the front panel of an AxeFX III Mk II Turbo cab be a real pain especially if it offstage. You don't want the band waiting for you to change presets, especially during a song and for a new song. Out here it costs $1,800 AUD
I prefer quad cortex, the only think better from Fender is the UI and screen, but both of them are great gear
I was annoyed with both of these workflows scenarios. I’ll will stick with my Friedman IR-X and OX stomp.
Just my opinion but I personally don't worry about how easy a modeler is they are all pretty much easy to use. I only worry about how it feels under my fingers and if it inspires me to play. I love my FM9 and tried L6 and the Quad. The Fender at the price point it's at does not impress me at this point.
Here the TMP ($2,349) is cheaper that the Helix ($2800), a lot cheaper that the QC ($3,200) a and cheaper than the FM9 ($3,390). Good value methinks.
In terms of the unit itself I think the Fender takes the win by farrrrr. Seems way more gig ready and solid, better on the floor, more foot space, sexier, even the power supply is nice and solid and not some stupid radio shack plug. QC has had years to roll out updates, I think Fender will catch up to them pretty quick.
Those big screens on a busy stage. Seems not wise. Just asking, home guitarist here 😌
What if they made modellers that only had 5 or 6 amps models but allowed really in depth tweakablity.
My personal opinion…the DSP tone wins hands down (though 95 out of 100 people listening through a mix won’t be able to tell the difference).
The TMP UI is miles ahead of the DSP. Reminds me of the Headrush setup. It’s just better. It’s really not even close. Just pick what works best for you at the end of the day.
DSP stand for Digital Signal Processor, so you've lost me.
Neurals full name is Neural DSP. So he means quad cortex.
Honestly, to me, they both have things that seem like dealbreaker flaws in their workflows. The thing you showed on the QC where you can’t change banks while in Preset Mode in Play View, or whatever, is still one of the biggest head scratchers to me. And then if you’re in normal view in Preset Mode and you change banks, you can’t see the preset names in the bank before you select them… Just so freaking dumb, I can hardly believe it.
The Fender just looks slow as all get out. I don’t know how I feel about being able to assign the same block to different switches. I guess it kind of gives you a version of snapshots, but it seems like it would be confusing. Some of these choices are just puzzling. It’s like these companies decide they’re going to copy the Helix, but they’ve never really used one, so they don’t understand the actual important elements they should copy.
you have to be an engineer to understand those gears...
Still Helix is the King!!!!😄
For you
This guy never plays guitar in his videos 😩.
Does anyone know why?
I play in every video thats not a user interface comparison or a discussion. There are about 345 of the 350 videos on the channel where you can hear playing though 🫡 hope you find what you're looking for
People that are dissing the TMP have not spent the night with it. I have a Fractal and Kemper. The TMP blows the user experience away on both. Sound? The only amps the Kemper or Fractal do better are high gain (other than the 5150). Fx? Nothing touches the Fractal…period.
The question is this. Do you want to play guitar or tweak? Fractal is tweaked heaven…at the cost of making music. Kemper..not as bad but it’s up there too. The TMP allows you to do both.
Keep your money. Don’t get one. It’s your choice. You’ll never “get it” though until you sleep with the girl and feed her breakfast. At that point, you’ll understand.
The TMP will cause other companies to raise the bar on their crappy interfaces. Count on it. The TMP is a baby. Wait till they slam some updates on it if you’re uptight. They are coming.
Thats my hope too. Fractal is a nightmare to learn and TMP needs no instruction whatsoever. One day someone will be able to make us all happy 🤣😅
Agreed Steve. I am not turning loose of my others…for now. I truly enjoy both the Kemper and the Fractal. But taking outside the house…the TMP just took the prize on that for sure
@ernieficklin3593 glad you're loving it! Im trying to get there
Plus this is new for fender. Wait till they have some updates for this thing. It’ll be a beast
@@sphinx9517 - What’s new for Fender, exactly? A touchscreen? They’ve been making floor modelers and modeling amps for years.
Comparing TMP to other flagship units is an insult to them. I don't get why anyone with any experience with modelers would take this thing seriously and considering the price is the only flagship thing TMP has, who would buy it is an even bigger mystery.
Some people don't know what they want yet and think Fender must be awesome bc its Fender, which is why I think videos like this are important 🤷♂️
@@SteveSterlacciCome on now. This is a ridiculous attitude. The QC launch was a raging dumpster fire. The TMP has been out for, what, 3 weeks? You can try to be a little objective.
@sergiomartinez4403 i am the first one to call QC a dumpster fire launch lol i see my wording and see your point. Definitely didn't mean for it to come off like that. I will re word it
@@Teletex82 fixed my comment. I agree with ya and it wasn't worded how I wanted
@@SteveSterlacci Just to be clear, I really enjoy your channel and find it very helpful and informative. I appreciate your receptiveness and being able to have a discussion. Keep up the good work!
I suppose if you want to find deficiencies you will.
If you’re making presets at a gig then that’s ridiculous. Your nitpicks are because you have spent far more time with the QC so you know it and its tricks.
I do say i am covering both basic preset building as well as making adjustments on the gig. Why would I cover making a preset at a gig lol thats not good for anyone. But, I make adjustments on the gig ALL the time, so that is very important to me and not ridiculous. And I do have a bit later on in the video (i assume you haven't gotten there yet) about the TMP being so simple and easy, but once you learn the other units "tricks", they become faster if you do learn them. TMP has 0 learning curve.
Everyone needs to make changes to a patch at a gig. I remember needing to dive into the Eleven Rack onscreen editor because the reverbs weren't sounding as good as they were at home. The process was *not* fun.
@vaughanmacegan4012 yeah "critics" of my workflow videos like to point and yell that presets should be prepared for the gig. Clear indication that they must not gig with their units through diff p.a's and venues and know what they'll have to adjust on any rig they brought
Thanks for uploading TMP content. Most likely, The TMP will be my next unit unless Line 6 commits to a new unit before Midnight, December 1st, 2023. That is the cutoff date that I have elected to adopt. Ive had a Helix for 5 plus years. Without doubt, Helix is superior to Quad Cortex. Of course, getting kicked in the nuts is better than dealing with Neural. So that really only leaves the Fender TMP as a viable option. I hope Line 6 has something in the works. BUt if not, the Fender will be the product I go with.
All that being said thanks for the content. In 5 years, think of how easy the TMP will be to navigate......And no, you still won't be able to use Neural plugins in the QC in 5 years.
I'd give it until NAMM january 24th. I doubt theyre gonna. I would think Helix will have a 10 year life before they actually release something new. At least thats what makes sense to Jess 😉
If Fender haven't updated by Christmas with more amps then I might go to Helix, even with the amp fizziness issues.
@@vaughanmacegan4012 Amp fizziness issues are a "youtube thing" Talented musicians have NO FIZZENESS issues with the Helix. Plus...........Line 6 is getting ready to drop Helix 2.0 by Dec 31 2023. Steve has tried all the modelers and returned to Line 6 every time. AND trust me when I TELL YOU THIS: Jenn is a monster vocalist and an INSANE talent...............she will NOT TOLERATE sub standard guitar tones. Just sayin. Helix is awesome. Fender has potential. Which will you bet your career on?
@@benburnett8109 How do you know helix 2.0 is coming in December?
I'm being shadow banned again. The Shadow is real. The Ban is real. Only Jess can fix this.
The TMP is a very immature machine that has been launched being almost still in beta. Fender really did an incredible mistake. In 2023 we as digital machine user all know what's, the meaning of being competitive and open to the market in terms of performances sound and ease of use. This Fender is only easy to use. For the rest is a complete disater. it could have been revolutionary 10 years ago but these days such a machine can only compete with the low end of the market but the price is out of this world. Fender is on good way of destroying its reputation in the guitar digital domain.
You need to check out some other channels like Tone Junkies and such because after spending real time with the tmp they rave about the sound and UI. It’s actually got a lot of value for certain types of guitarists who want to play and don’t want to spend hours learning how to use a unit.
Tone junkies doesn't think it sounds as good as Helix in their vid. Its capable of great sounds regardless. But with today's options, they all can get any sound you'll ever need
@@SteveSterlaccidid you watch the latest friends video they released where they talk about the better Fender tones they got out of the tmp. They even said it responded more like a real amp in comparison to the Helix.
@vedder10 pretty sure it was the same one. Either way, the tones at the end of the day are always gonna be subjective and i think all the units are equally as capable in achieving pro sounds. Thats why I leave tone out of this specific discussion
@@SteveSterlacci Either way we are living in such a wonderful era where you have so many choices and everyone get's a chance to sample and find what works for them. I can only imagine what we are going to see in another 3-5 years with AI playing more of a substantial role in our tech.