Backmount Sidemount Transitioning (Low Cost) Discussion
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ธ.ค. 2024
- Backmount Sidemount Transitioning (Low Cost) Discussion
We get asked all the time, "How Much Is It Going To Cost Me." And we all know the saying, You Have To Pay To Play. Well Scuba is no different. But when you are transitioning into a new type of diving, being smart and discussing possible ways to do it at a minimal cost helps new divers experience new types of diving with out breaking the bank. Then as they decide what type of diver they want to become, then they can make the investment of purchasing newer gear.
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if you start with a "dir configuration" every switch/addition will be affordable. doubles: buy a bigger bladder, sidemount: add a backplate and some bungees and go sandwich system...
Very true. Thanks for commenting DroPsyDro
Amazing channel , amazing video , thanks alot for the tips
I just have a question if you don't mind,
I was wondering how do you attach the LP hose inflator to ur BCD using this set up ?
Hello O_sm, the same way as if you were using certain Dive Rite systems or a Toddy Style sidemount rig. Your low pressure line comes up over your should and routes in the same manner as it would in a backmount set up.
@@LakeHickoryScuba thanks 🙏🏻
Thanks for the video!! I have the Mare Pure, but not the hybrid. Wich butt plate you recomend to do the transition??, the shipper one!! Do you have. a video showing the steps how do the transition mounting the butt plate?
Hello ramon ocasio, there are many companies that make a butt plate, including Mares, ScubaPro, Apex and several others.
Just amazing, I was looking for sth like that for weeks and I finally I found it. And this is the same BCD as I own...
Could you make a video diving with it? I'll do the same configuration as soon as possible..
Thanks for your deep and clear explanation!
Eduardo Pin In the video we made on Lost Buddy Procedure, th-cam.com/video/WZQi3LOqiNc/w-d-xo.html, you can see me using this set up with an AL80 as extra tank. You will see a front view and a side view. Since I was using this as a stage setup and not necessarily as a sidemount setup, I didn't have the retraction bands wrapped around the valve to keep the top part of the tank up. But hopefully this will give you some idea how it works. The 3:20 mark you will see a side profile of the system.
Hello, great video as always.
One question, is it possible to do it with the Mares Bolt SLS?
Thanks for your attention
Hello Felipe C Ch Bertin, anything is possible. As stated before, this is only meant as a transition. Its still better to use a BCD that is specifically designed for Sidemount.
It is very easy to do it on Bolt but if you wanna remove SLS it needs few cuts and little sewing.
The wing is placing too much lift at the diver's upper back, which is in the absolute worst place for a sidemount setup. It should be moved to around the hips and lower back in order to deal with the change in weight positioning caused from moving the tanks from your back to your sides.
If all you are going to do is clip bottles onto the chest d-rings, you are stage mounting them, not sidemounting them. This means the top of the tank will be hanging below the diver's chest and swinging like a pendulum instead of secured under the diver's armpits like they are supposed to. This leads to a lot of excess drag, and for divers of smaller stature, their center of balance in the water will constantly be shifting and making them unstable. In real sidemount diving, you would have the valves of the tanks secured with bungee cord.
The weight pouches and pockets on the waist strap need to be removed in order to prevent entanglement.
Trying to convert a recreational BC into a home made sidemount system for an inexperienced diver is going to lead to someone who is extremely uncomfortable and unstable in the water. They will more than likely give up on sidemount and decide it's not for them because they weren't taught by someone who knew what they were doing.
I would suggest to anyone who wants to learn sidemount diving to find an instructor or buddy who dives sidemount regularly and not someone who makes things up as they go in order to save a few bucks, and whatever you do, please don't take a setup like this into an overhead environment.
Thank You for your comment and concerns. You make a valid point, which I believe the video covers each of those in detail. The purpose of the video is not to have people convert their pre-existing gear into sidemount gear, but to allow them to get a feel for it without forking out a lot of money. Very similar to PADI's Advanced Open Water Diver course, where they get the feel for 5 different types of diving, just to see if they like it before they spend money on new gear to suit the needs of that type of diving. Once again Thank You for your comment and concerns.
Evan May 4444
I think for a rec diver Is importante to be able to experience differenti types of dives having flexible equipment, not everyday i will use backmount, not everyday sidemount, some cold water and some warm water, some adjustments when feeling for a serious dive in double..... Be free Is my motto !
Hello @paolafrege, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.
Great vid. This is where I am at now. I notice you mentioned the plastic backplate. Can you use an aluminum one ? And swap out to plastic for travelling ?
Hello Wade, if you are using a standard Back Plate and Wing system, then you can routinely switch between either a Solf Plate, Aluminum Plate, or a Steel Plate. Unfortunately with the Back Inflate system shown in this video, it only comes with a Plastic Plate.
Loved this video bro! thank you
Glad you liked the video @andreavizcaino9443.
I’m working on my OW right now, and think that I will want to transition to sidemount pretty quickly so that I can start training for a cave course. If I got started on a traditional backplate / wing, can I just use that harness to transition to a sidemount configuration?
Hello Ryan, you most certainly can use a standard plate and harness for Sidemount Diving. Wing shape makes a huge difference though. I would suggest finding a specific BCD for Sidemount Diving. In this video we are not suggesting divers change their equipment or adapt it in any way, but more of a way to try Sidemount Diving in a pool with out a great expense. Once you make the decision to go Sidemount, then you should purchase a BCD designed for Sidemount Diving. Hope this helps.
@@LakeHickoryScuba thanks for the reply. I may just pickup some used backmount gear to get me started and make the switch when I’m ready.
I did exactly this mistake, I bought a west styled bcd, to realized wing were much better. I chosed a Holis s.m.s 75, because it's a 3in1(1or 2 back mount) and sidemount.
It's maybe not the very best, but I love it, I really can't wait to try it, I got it since a few months, but here in Switzerland it was too cold and I didn't have a dry suit.
There is just one I blame all instructor! Why they aren't any backplate bcds when you start diving, this is very stupid, because a beginner would buy a west styled bcd first to realize, f...k I'm quite limited and there are great backplate and whining systems which give me a huge benefit and they aren't much more expensive than a jacket one.
Hello @benheckendorn2696, choosing a BCD that is right for you can be nerve racking, this is why we allow our Open Water students to try out Jacket Style, Back Inflate, and a Back Plate and Wing during their Open Water Course. Most of our students choose to purchase a Back Plate and Wing when they are ready.
Hello @@LakeHickoryScuba this is sadly unique, because I did OWD with SSI, AOWD with PADI and sadly none of them had given the chance to try, both dive centers had just jackets. So I would wish more would give a option to try different BCDs.
Can you take a 3 liter tank and strap it to the 12 liter tank on your back as a reserve air supply?
Hello g Davis, there are many different ways to secure an alternate air source to you. We will be making a video in the very near future on some of the different methods. One will be attaching a smaller cylinder to a larger cylinder, in a back mount configuration.
@@LakeHickoryScuba thanks for the reply. I've seen the pony bottle mounted with the valve facing the bottom...thought it was weird.
Some divers choose to invert the smaller cylinder, for easier access to the valve.
I really like this idear I dived with a buddy that uses side mount regularly and he got me looking into trying it one day
Hey Brian,
I am just about to buy my first BC and I have ambitions to eventually get into tech / sidemount tech diving. Should I invest in a backplate system or should I just go straight into side mount?
Hey Reilly, that is a decision you will have to make for yourself. About 15 years ago, I switched over from Backmount to Sidemount. For me, my back just can't take heavy cylinders like it use to. This being said, you can always do both. The better you become with multiple systems, the better and safer a diver you will be in the long run. Try not to limit yourself to just one method of diving. Be proficient with both Backmount and Sidemount. Hope this helps.
I know it's already several month old, but there is something that could improve this setup. If you would add a continuous bungee or 2 like in a Toddy-Style setup, you would get a much better sidemount feeling compared to clipping on to the chest d-rings. Overall it's still better to find someone who can borrow you some sidemount gear for testing.
I agree with you completely. We teach quite a bit of sidemount courses here, and we got a lot of flak from people on this video, because they felt like we were telling them this is how they should dive. The truth is, we were simply trying to show people that they could convert their pre-existing equipment, temporarly into sidemount gear, just to see if they would like this style of diving, before they went out and purchased gear designed specifically for sidemount. Think of it as a Discover Sidemount Course. Then once they get the idea of sidemount diving, they can purchase a sidemount system that suits their needs. In this industry, try before you buy is hard to do. But we try to accommodate in any way that we can.
My option would be the Hollis SMS 100 Sidemount Harness. No transition necessary.
Hollis makes some great equipment Scuba Client, we have used them for years.
I was dreaming a content like this one! Having already a back inflation bcd like that, will be a joke now to adapt it for sidemount..Thanks!
Hello Skull Gold Diver, this video's sole intention was not for divers to use their current BCD's for Sidemount, but a way they could transition into Sidemount to see if it was for them. We strongly encourage all divers to use equipment that is specifically designed for the diving they want to do. Fill free to check out our other Sidemount Tips and Tricks videos.
@@LakeHickoryScuba This is actually my will...I want to try if having two longer steel cylinders on the harness,I can manage to reduce lot of extra weight that I transport on my back to reach the beach...Seems like those streamlined bcd require less weight to keep the neutral-setup...This morning however I tried a 15 lt.steel tank with regular backmount and despite the 30+kg including tank and bcd weights I was terribly buoyant...5mm wetsuit and my pregnant style stomach...Need to reduce fat...insanely...or at least other 4kg on the belt cause without to breath I was almost down on the bottom...but for a millisecond...
As a sidemount diver , I sold all my gear to get into sidemount.... I spent hours and hours tuning underwater and this got me thinking that it will give a false and bad experience to the diver trying it....
Hello marinos ioannou, thankfully our experience has been the exact opposite. We average 20 new Sidemount students a year. A small handful of those divers modify their current BCD’s to work for Sidemount Diving. After a few times in the pool, they upgrade to a Sidemount specific BCD. It’s also a great way for myself and our other Instructors to express the need for equipment that is designed for Sidemount Diving. Whether it’s for a Try Sidemount course or as a simple teaching aid, we have had nothing but positive feed back from our students.
@@LakeHickoryScuba ok , then that's awesome.... Because for a day to day use , I think it will sacrifice some of the goods of sidemount and some safety too.... But for ""DSD to sidemount" or something like that... I guess its ok.... I never tried it... But I wanted to express my opinion for the less experienced divers to raise some awareness .... Good work though... I would have never put the work to convert a backmount rig to sidemount... I sold mine , saved more money and went head first to sidemount.... PS. I am an active backmount diver for 10 years....but newbie to sidemount....
Excellent video. I'm transitioning from backplate/wing to sidemount. I decided to go via Dive Rite Transpac, also modular.
Dive Rite makes some great products, and like you said, they are very modular for both Backmount and Sidemount
man that is not gonna let divers feel anything from sidemount diving cz the cylinders will not be in a side streamlined position, they will just drag some tanks all around.
just get few sidemount BCDs & let them try.
anyway if you succeed to put a loop bungee on this BCD they will need another d ring more to the front so when the cylinder start being positive you move it to the front one.
the butt plate should be used only for Steel cylinders.
in sidemount BCD the wing is only in the low area almost in the center of the cylinders.
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Thank You for commenting, I believe all those points were made in the video as well. This is not meant to replace sidemount BCD's, but an option to adapt their gear as a trial with out having to rent equipment or buy a new BCD. Key feature being the diver is already comfortable in his or her own equipment. We have found that this works great for divers who are slowly transitioning from recreational into technical, and need the capability to sling a stage bottle without switching to a back plate and wing setup. Once they have made that decision then they look at their options to change equipment. Thank You again for watching our video and commenting.
I have found that it’s cheaper and better to just jump in a backplate DIR system. I built my own. People need to be more committed and assertive.
Hello Wally Brown, glad to hear your system is working for you.
LakeHickoryScuba Yeah, for cheaper sake, I just built my own off Amazon etc. I love your videos and info, keep it up Bryan.
I see where you tried to go with this, but it is a really bad idea. As this sort of setup could really put people off sidemount as adding a level of complexity that could cause incidents without training. It will not feel anywhere near as comfortable, secure or streamlined then a correct setup. There are plenty of places that will run Sidemount try dives so people will get the correct feel and experience! As per some of the info such as but rails, most sidemount divers use the waist d-rings as they allow the use to better streamline cylinders to the body.
I'm going to politely disagree with you. Our numbers would indicate otherwise. In 2017 we have issued over 25 side mount certifications with 75% of them starting from a Try Side Mount course. During these courses, divers were required to have there own equipment, and most did not want to buy a new setup until they decided if side mount was for them. Each diver who chose to use their current equipment modified it in such a manor that it was at very minimal cost to them, yet still safe to dive in a 10 foot pool. We discovered that perfect trim could be obtained by each diver for the experience. Afterwards, each diver registered for the full side mount course, and purchased a side mount BCD. As most have misunderstood the purpose of the video, I appreciate you watching and commenting.
While the context you put in above would be fine, I would ask why do they need to modify their gear, why not have some try dive kits. The other side is putting a tutorial online on how to modify gear for its not intended purpose is a little irresponsible for a dive organisation. As you are probably aware and seen it for yourselves many people try to learn online, and there are people who will try and do this to their kit which could lead to all sorts of problems. Ie does their BCD have enough lift? Are the attachment points made to withstand 15 to 20kg of kit hanging off it! Have they just weakened their kit so it will now have unsafe for going back to normal use. This to me makes this video a potential hazard and people will try this without any training and the extra gear will certainly lead to task loading. Does this not worry you that you could unintentionally be putting divers at risk?
This does not worry us at all, although we can see why you are concerned. We encourage all students to seek out training from an instructor and not the internet. Starting in the scuba industry in 1988, I have seen and come to realize not everything is black and white, and what some may consider irresponsible is not as such. Also we have a full series on Sidemount Diving, feel free to watch those videos as well. Once again, this video is not telling divers this is how you should dive sidemount, but a simple way for them to try it in a pool, just to see if they would like it. Our experience has shown that they do, and it also shows them the need to purchase proper gear, instead of them just hearing it from a salesman on the floor. Thank you for your concerns and comments. Happy Diving.
Good video with good info. Thank you
Your Welcome
scuba diving is dangerous.