🎹Steinway vs Bösendorfer Pianos Brand Comparison - New York, Vienna - Acoustic Pianos🎹
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ม.ค. 2021
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#Steinway #Bosendorfer #Pianos
One of the most dramatic amongst high-end pianos would be a Bosendorfer vs New York Steinway matchup. In this edition of the ‘Tasting Notes’ series on the Merriam Pianos TH-cam channel, Stu Harrison is going to take us through this exact comparison.
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Battle of Opposites
In a lot of ways, comparing these two is essentially a battle of opposites. Where the Steinway’s rim is built for rigidity and maximum projection, a Bosendorfer rim is softer, thinner and creates far greater warmth in the immediate vicinity of the piano.
Where a Steinway D can easily fill a large concert hall without amplification, rarely will you find a Bosendorfer in the same situation without microphones and amplification of some kind.
A Steinway offers a very wide range of tones from bass to treble and soft to loud, a Bosendorfer is much more consistent with regards to timbre both in terms of range and dynamic output.
Bosendorfer Playing Experience
From the perspective of the player, playing a Bosendorfer is like using a stereo enhancer with headphones, creating the feeling of a wide expanse of sound. The lack of harder, denser hardwoods in the structure and rim leaves a bit of a missing gap in the harmonics in the lower mid range of the instrument which can lead the listener to perceive a less full sounding tone.
This general tonal profile has led Bosendorfer to be regarded as an instrument best suited for jazz or early classic music given the super clear treble range. Bosendorfer’s are also common in high end studios where mic placement and post-production can help fill in the gaps in the harmonic structure, while still offering trademark clarity in the treble.
Bosendorfer has retained a reputation as being one of the top pianos in the entire industry for close to 200 years, with some of the highest quality workmanship among any manufacturer.
New York Steinway Playing Experience
Steinway’s blend of harmonics would normally be considered a more lively and dynamic piano than that of a Bosendorfer, with a wider range of nuance and tones available. The trade off is a lack of clarity, and as a result, both supporters and detractors of the brand both agree that the Steinway is the most forgiving of the high end concert grands available.
For people unhitched from the brands romance, this is a downside, especially when compared to a Bosendorfer, or other high end pianos such as a C. Bechstein or Fazioli. The Steinway essentially gives the player training wheels by masking and glossing over some detail and clarity.
Conclusions:
Despite the differences, both instruments are essentially living museums of the ingenuity of the 19th Century industrial boom. While neither would be considered a super modern piano from a design or technology perspective, both serve as a testament to how the highest levels of craftsmanship can still produce amazing results.
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I find this quite interesting. I'm a proud owner of a 225. I've played many Steinways, and love them generally as well. I've only played two Bosendorfers in my life, and the other one I tried didn't get much time, but it had an amazing sound and feel. So I haven't tried as many pianos probably as needed to make generalizations. But at least some of what you say, I agree with. In some respects, Steinways are somehow more forgiving. Especially with regards to dynamics, and bright versus mellow, it's harder to overplay a Steinway. You can pound away on them and they might stay a bit mellower, their higher dynamic range is less overbearing and bright.
That being said, the bass has less definition, and there is less fundamental tone sustain. they can also get very loud and sonorous. These are all things I believe you mention in one way or another. It's seemingly a bit harder to bring things out on a Steinway (e.g. individual melody lines etc). Strangely, I thought for sure Steinway was a brighter piano overall compared to a Bosendorfer, specifically this Bosendorfer of mine, until I realized that it's not just a matter of bright versus mellow. It's the particular kind of bright versus mellow.
The Bosendorfer, when played mellowly, has this kind of dark glow to it. There's resonance, but not as much, it's more delicate. The Steinway on the other hand has a roundness and fullness to its tone. I think this is explained by the higher harmonic differences you talked about. And I have heard that Steinways, with their lower string tension compared to Bosies, are predisposed to mellowness even at higher dynamics. Overall the Bosendorfer is I think tending to be a bit brighter, but when played mellow, is an even more subtle tone than Steinway, while also having incredible sustain in the fundamental. The brightness works because it's such a pure tone.
I'll sit down and play a Steinway extensively and will not be able to bring out as many individual singing melody lines and accented notes as easily (e.g. in jazz/classical avant-garde music). Everything risks becoming kind of muddy, especially when using the damper and playing fast passages on the Steinway. But some of the better points of the Steinway are that the sound is more rounded somehow. It's probably a bit easier to shape dynamics on the Steinway.
Bosendorfer is more responsive and it can work either for or against you. There are surely some things a Steinway can't do that a Bosendorfer can, and vice versa. I feel that cleaner and more constant pedaling is needed on the Steinway whereas Bosendorfer doesn't get as blurry and creates more of this beautiful echoing with so many colors still remaining clear even when mixed...ah well, those are just my subjective thoughts based on my limited experiences. Thanks for the video!
I enjoyed your comment very much! I have a Steinway but have always been a fan of Bosendorfer.
Je ne suis absolument pas pianiste, je suis guitariste et j'aime tous les instruments de musique en général. Hehe j'ai un petit clavier arrangeur à 900 balles, mais vu mon niveau de piano c'est largement suffisant. Mais j'adore les beaux pianos de concert, style steinway and sons, bösendorfer, pleyel,.... Ce sont de merveilleux instruments de musique. Quelle classe dans un grand salon. J'adore écouter les gens qui jouent bien. J'ai regardé, il y a 2 ou 3 semaines sur arte à 5 heures du matin, un concours international qui se déroulait à Vienne je crois. Les candidats jouaient sur un steinway, c'était vraiment très beau.
@@davgilmore6858 I also play guitar, mostly electric. It takes a backseat to my piano playing, though (I'm not as knowledegable about guitar but I can play well in a specific style). I'm self-taught at guitar, but had lessons for a while on piano when I was younger. Feel free to watch me playing the piano on my Bosendorfer 225 here: th-cam.com/video/NYV4kUnh2dY/w-d-xo.html
Currently nodding my head as if I e ever had the privilege of playing on any one of these behemoths while splitting keys on a u1.
Never say never! ;)
My fingers are certainly crossed for you, so that'll have the opportunity to play on some of these gorgeous grand pianos! Thanks so much for tuning in! We appreciate it.
I have to chime in here. I think that when discussing high end pianos like these, each one is so unique and different that it is hard to make these blanket statements about the brands. I used to sell pianos and would be amazed at how different 4 of the same model could be side by side. One would be dark and moody, the next bright and airy. It's so subjective at this price point.
I'm still marked by the dramatic presentation. I felt like watching the introductory monologue to a classical "Golden Age" movie. 🎹🤓
... later edit: that was not disrespectful, Stu, in any case. I'm a pianist, too, and I think your presentation are the best!
this channel is so good:O
I played a 9 ft. Bosendorfer for my JR and Sr recitals in a small, old 300-seat auditorium. Wonderful piano. I also played a 1988 Hamburg Steinway at North Texas. Another awesome piano. The Bosendorfer was my favorite for its warmth and action.
Very nice! Those are certainly some wonderful pianos. What a great experience to get to play those beautiful instruments!
Ultimately, hand-made pianos ultimately come down to each individual instrument. Brand arguably matters less at the high end when it's made by hand.
Greatly explained, thanks.... just some real demonstration would be nice ;) Thanks of these words I do understand why I do like Bösendorfer, Bechstein and Fazioli more then Steinway....
These VS battles are sooo good. Schimmel VS Yamaha please!
The VC Bosendorfer projects well but it is a newer model from Bosendorfer. I sat in the balcony of Carnegie Hall and heard Andres Schiff play a Bosendorfer 280VC and in a seat in the same area have heard pianists play a Hamburg and NY Steinway D. Both makes projected well. None of the pianos were amplified. I'm not sure how an older model like the Imperial would project but it is bigger and may project as well. The VC was introduced I believe in 2016 or thereabouts so it is a very modern piano series.
btw, the 280VC does not have any extra keys. It is an 88 key piano as are all VC Bosendorfer pianos. I think I disagree that Steinway has a bigger range of dynamics and tones. Bosendorfer pianos also have a wide range of dynamics and nuances and colors of tones however they are of a different nature than Steinway's.
Totally agree, Bosendorfer VC series pianos are modern designed grand piano, very impressed special VC280.
C'est magnifique!
Curious, for a follow up video --which modern grands do you consider to be the most technologically advanced?
A Tesla model S.
@@weiliu3623 😆
I would put Fazioli and Shigeru Kawai on that list
Do Bosendorfer acoustic pianos have separated sound between registers?
(I never had the pleasure of playing one☹)
On the Yamaha P-515 I hear differences in sound as I go up the registers
What I'm asking....... is the acoustic even from low to high registers, or is the separation I hear on the P-515 a sample issue?
Thanks so much for this channel
Dave
Hi Dave! Brent from Merriam Music here! Thank you for tuning into our channel! :)
Naturally, even the very best samples and emulations of an acoustic piano sound will have its shortcomings/issues. In my experiences, Bosendorfer pianos have wonderfully seamless transitions between its various registers. However, even that notion would be a matter of subjectivity as every players' ears are a little different.
@@MerriamPianos Thank you Brent
This is absolutely false. Bosendorfer piano has much more powerful bass notes than a Steinway.
He just says what everyone says about these pianos. But I agree, Bösie has deeper bass range. Maybe they mean volume? That Steinways are louder?
I would agree (with you). I have played both of those concert grand back to back and the Steinway sounds shallow in comparison. The Bösendorfer also has those awesome extra base notes and a length advantage that makes the bass so much more powerful and yet controllable.
One problem: These video commentaries imply that all pianos from a certain manufacturer play and sound the same, but that's not true at all. Much has to do with the relative size of the instruments, the adjustment of the action, such as key height, let off, and back check points, and hammer hardness. The scale design of the stringing is extremely important too. Bottom line it depends on the individual instrument, where it's used, and who is playing it. Finally it has a lot to do with how much discretionary income the purchaser may have to spend on a piano. Generally institutions have more money than individuals, and in general institutions attract a larger number of extremely proficient players. There are can be lot of politics involved in the decision as well.
You're right, the size, action and just the voicing of a piano can make huge individual differences. Or the environment the piano is placed into...
But in the case of Steinway and Bösendorfer, there is an overall sound difference. As Bösendorfer uses a solid wood rim (made of soundboard spruce) and machine cuts the holes on its pinboard, all pianos have deep, generally warm bass and crystal clear treble sound. Especially the machine cutting for the pin board - precise string positioning - helps to have relative consistency in sound profile. Which is the reason why many European brands use machine for this step.
On the other hand, Steinway uses laminated maple (hard wood) rim with hand-holed pinboard, which contributes to great variability in sound and results in less crispness of individual notes (hence the mellow sound profile). Which is also a conscious choice from Steinway's part. They want their pianos to sound widely different, so their artists have more creative freedom.
I would not compare a Bechstein, Schimmel or a Blüthner like this, but with the above mentioned two brands, one can make generalized comparison, because they have major design differences.
Professor Stu of Piano....needs to do more teaching, playing other than selling...👍👍👍
Would love to hear singer Diana Krall with a Bosendorfer it would enhance her warm sound!❤
Absolutely! That would be quite the lovely pairing. :)
I've seen her several time playing a P290 Bösen at Jazz à Vienne. You can find vids on youtube.
If someone will do your film-biopic, Edward Norton should play you, sir! 🎬🎵🎶🎹
Hmm, perhaps someone more handsome ;-)
Bosendorfer is the king! Getting my first Steinway tomorrow at 2 pm. Im smiling!
A Bösendorfer or a Blüthner do play extremely clean and every dissonance is demanding a resolution into a harmonics. The Steinway, if well manufactured (and not all are sounding the same), can still make dissonances sound less demanding and therefore transport more harmonics and dynamic to the listener. When playing some small dissonances in a romantic piece, the Steinway sounds even romantic at those parts, however, the Bösendorfer puts some drama in there that requests some good harmonics after this. Seems that the dissonance overtones bit more than on the Steinway. Or the Steinway puts them into gloves.
I was watching a demonstration of a young man playing the Imperial 290 and he demonstrated as you strike the lower keys, the upper harmonics ring in perfectly in tune. It may sound like other pianos from my description, but the Imperial destroys the competition. Ignaz was a hero in those times. It almost instantly sounds like you are striking 3 keys at once. The energy behind it is exemplary!
You recently have compared Kawai GX Vs Yamaha CX. Then, it's time for Shigeru Kawas Vs Yamaha SX~~:)
The best thing is owning both of Steinway D and Bosendorfer Imperial 290. I am using a Steinway Hamburg D 274, and longing for having enough money to buy Bisen.290 in the near future. Thank you for your comparison.
Having both a Steinway D and a Bösie Imperial? OMG, how big is your home???!!
I mean... I'm dying from jealousy... but good for you!
@@ashy969 Living in U. S.A, is there problems putting two concert grand pianos in any one house? If no, I will thank God who give me a great music opportunity. Thank you answers.
“Rarely will you find a Bosendorfer...without amplification “ what???? What bullshit.
Well, maybe not the Imperial. But most Bösies really do need some help next to a full orchestra. At least, I never seen one without.
(Still, I wish they'd ditch all the Steinways and use Bösie and other European brands instead)
I would love to get the Imperial 290 before I die.
It is a beautiful piano! My fingers are crossed for you that you can make that dream a reality. :)
@@MerriamPianos Thank you! I know it will happen. I want a piano that I can sing along with😁. But yes my fingers are itching to play on a real grand piano. I have a stand up piano from 1958. It has been far too weathered from a cold shed here in Maine.
Bösendorfer Team here!
One last point on the Steinway. I can play the revolutionary Etude by Chopin masterfully on a fazioli 278. Same on the bosendorfer. I don’t care what he says or anyone says unless you get the action worked many many times by a top-notch technician the action just blows on the Steinway. I do not believe he is a bosendorfer dealer! That explains everything. He sells Steinways
Actually, Merriam sells several brands. But for that reason, they will not talk down any brand - at least, not completely. And, I think, neither Bösendorfer or Steinway is part of their regular repertoire.
Btw, Stu has a Kawai at home (or used to). At any rate, being a jazz pianist, highly doubt his favourite brand is Steinway & sons... As he said in the video, it doesn't fit jazz that well.
(and no, I have nothing against Bösie - in fact, it is my life-long love as a piano brand)
Agregar subtítulos en español ..
One thing is true - you will virtually NEVER find a Bechstein on the concert stage. Almost never. I know I have never seen one in all the hundreds of occasions that I have attended concerts and solo recitals.
lol... I just went to their webpage to see if they might be the piano I would buy - I am greeted with a huge Ukrainian flag and some sob story about the poor Ukrainians... lol eat shit, Putin is King! Bechstein can go in the toilet.
Bechstein fell out of favour after WW2, especially among a lot of musicians with Jewish ancestry due to the owners - in particular Frau Bechstein - being big financial supporters of the Nazi party in the '30's and a personal friend of Adolph Hitler. Not surprising that when it came to renew instruments, venues - already heavily influenced by Steinway's stranglehold on artists - did not buy them.
Another thing is true: much of that is due to relentless promotion by Steinway coupled with aggressive and sometimes unsavoury business practices.
I played the Bechstein D282, the touch was phenomenally precise, right down to pppp
Please give us more real sounds of instruments! Because I know already, what you spoken😓
The bottom line is the bosen Dorfer has much more color than the Steinway. This man does seem a little bit biased about bosendorfer’s for some reason
Talking, talking and no music to compare.
😅 Ikr.
He should replace the title with:
My talk only comparation between... & ....
You are complaining? This information is gold.
At least have the decency to pronounce 'Bösendorfer' correctly.
Almost correctly but good enough for an american.
Ah, it kills my ears, too... but...No English speaker ever does. I don't think they hear ö at all... (at least, the ones coming to Finland never seem to)
Busendolfer
Thanks for tuning in! :)
I don’t even talk about the Fazioli 278,it craps all over steinway. I just traded my fazioli 278 for bosendorfer28 VC, which by the way craps all over Steinway as well. Steinway is overrated.! I tried six different Steinways all sounded different. And none of them were prepared from the factory not one. When I had a time with me it sounded good after years and years of a technician working on the soundboard. The fagioli right out of the box kick 52 swift kick in the ass at the Steinway!! Both indoor for a while not as powerful as the Fazioli. Has a lot more intimate color. It has much more projection then the older bosendorfer. Still not as powerful but the same way is that just loud brash crappy action just sucks all around. I don’t care what he says he is biased against bosendorfer
Fazioi is an amazing piano. As a professional pianist myself, I've always marveled by it's tone, clarity and a little of it's resemblance to the good old Steinway pianos. Played a few of them, as well as Bosendorfer pianos. But none sound like a good old Steinway from the golden era. I owe one. Wouldn't trade for a new Fazioli. This Italian piece of ingenuity is unequivocally a gorgeous instrument with a gorgeous sound. And very expensive ( understandable). Like a model with a perfect body, white smile, dress, make up, posing for a picture. The good old Steinway is like a very charming, elegant AND witty woman, with an occasional moody personality. The one every man ( the majority of the greatest classical and jazz pianists) fall in love with.
@@Beyondabsence If you were talking about the old case Steinways yes I agree
You Speak too much.
You are welcome to scroll to any sections of the video that interest you. We try to timestamp our videos to ensure easy navigation to the sections that are pertinent to our various viewers. Some of our viewers don't have the opportunity to play these instruments in person, so a thorough discussion about the various pros/cons of each instrument are very critical.