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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ค. 2024
- This is a preliminary video I have made to describe a Low Mpg Mechanism that effects Gen 2/Gen 3 Toyota Prius as well as other Toyota Hybrids with the same generation of Hybrid Drivetrains. I call them MAX and WEAK EV States.
It has been a phantom issue for decades at this point because nobody has described this cause of Low MPG accurately. this could be the cause if your Prius suddenly starts getting
App used to record data in the Video: play.google.com/store/apps/de...
For updates, follow me here:
PriusChat Account/Thread: priuschat.com/threads/attenti...
Reddit Account: / thelastmojojomo
Toyota Hybrid EV States Subreddit: / toyotahybridevstates
chapters below:
00:00 - Introduction
00:55 - Brief Explanation of EV States
02:53 - How I Discovered the EV States
03:33 - Mail Delivery example of the EV States
05:36 - EV State Graphics
06:54 - 1st Post describing Weak EV State
10:18 - 2nd Post describing Weak EV State
14:34 - Kirill626 meme
16:15 - Addendum - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
What software where are you useing ?
I was using Realtime Charts for Android in the video. If you want to measure exactly as I did see this Post here: www.reddit.com/r/ToyotaHybridEVStates/comments/1c1wh70/how_to_test_what_ev_state_your_prius_is_in_using/
This is a rough version of the final how to test like I did Post.
R we just ignoring that he’s driving the the right side 😂 props bro props
Hi, for the last three years after I changed the 12V battery my Prius 2007 consumption is around 0,5-1 liter more on 100Km. Till now I tried to fix this problem by changing the sparks, I cleaned up the air sensor, and I thought to clean up the injectors..., but now based on your tests at least I know what it is. Thanks so much.
Fascinating video. I will follow your videos man.
Looking forward to this developing
Oh, yes what a great analysis.
Anyway, as I get greater mpg than the thumbnail in my 2010 gen3.
I think that I am fine to not bother to over think and probably waste time on chasing gains that I probably already indirectly I am using in practice. 👍
Dude u deserve way more views and subs
Wait.....try this before anything else > .unplug and then plug back in the big orange breaker / interlock on the battery. Or if you can, swap the bad with the 'good' cars and test again.
I upgraded to the Nexcell on my gen 2. First drive of about 30 miles computer registered 51mpg. Checked mpg on fill up and it had gone from 32 to 41 but that was on the tank when I changed the battery. Now that I am running full tanks and checking mileage at each fill up. Here’s where it gets weird. One tank I’ll get as much as 54.7 mpg the next tank will be 45 and still another tank might be 40. It’s all still better than the factory battery that was averaging around 32mpg. I just don’t know how, or why, I’m ranging almost 15mpg from one tank to the next.
Do you have any thoughts on the Nexcell lithium batteries? Thinking about buying this Friday.
Hello, I am a Prius gen 2 user. I also observe the problems you describe. What I'm wondering is, I know you have switched to a lithium battery, so what is the internal resistance and voltage of the battery during these test drives? Can you post a video about it? While I am testing it, when the hv battery drops to 218-219v volts, the ice activates. Do you have the same problem?
I use original hv battery.
Also having this issue with this on my 2008 Prius with 210k miles. One 12v battery reset and it never went back to max EV state
Are you saying … since you disconnected your 12v battery … your mpg has been bad and stayed bad?
When I had to disconnect mine a second time, the mpg went back to normal very quickly. The car behaves differently sometimes, but during driving the MPG sometimes gets better then before the disconnect.
hopefully as more people lifepo4 mod old priuses this can be figured out. i think it would be cool if everyone converted their old prius' to plug ins. for me i just went with the gen1 chevy volts lol. 50miles range after my solar and lfp mods.
Weak Eevee state is also determined by factors such as high voltage battery temperature. If it's too low you will get weak EV state if high voltage battery temperature is too high. You get weak EV state. If gasoline engine is not properly warmed up, you get weak EV State in partial because it would run on the gas engine. But it does not rev to the Moon when giving it throttle unless you give it lots of throttle. The point of this is to let you know that there could be phantom readings or just readings more specifically related to the battery, such as temperature readings that the computer doesn't trust and if it does not think it can trust these readings or there's too much variation of battery temperature between the three temperature sensors on the top of the battery, then it will automatically default to a safety mode which is weak EV state in order to preserve the hybrid battery and keep the car working effectively as a hybrid most likely it is a sensor reading and sometimes these sensors fail or go out. Anyway, that is part of the reason why there is three temperature sensors for the battery temperature after the air has been through the battery and for detecting the actual temperature of the battery unfortunately for us users, even though there is a high battery temperature light on the dash, the car defaults to its weak EV state at such a low temperature that it will never come close to actually causing the high battery temperature light to come on with the exception of the battery cooling fan outright failing because the car is set to automatically revert to weak EV state. If the temperature sensor in the intake air fails for the hybrid battery, then it reverts to the temperature for outside temperature for what the car thinks the outside temperature is and also uses what the climate control temperature is set to to try to determine what it thinks is most likely the best intake air temperature and this can sometimes be hard for the car to determine so it just defaults to its safety which is weak EV state because it knows it can trust the temperature sensors for the engine way more than it can trust the temperature sensors for the battery also sometimes hooking The 12 volt battery up incorrectly or not giving it enough time disconnected can cause these issues. In order to properly change the 12-volt battery, the procedure is to disconnect from the negative of the 12 volt first or the ground strap on a gen. 3 of the 12-volt first then disconnect the positive battery side and then when reinstalling the battery hook The positive battery terminal up first then all of the things that plug into the positive battery terminal and then connect the negative side of the battery up and then go and start your car after that sometimes hooking the battery up in the wrong order does not always cause a check engine light or a fault light to come on. But it is supposed to cause a fault light to come on. So that way you get the car checked out by a mechanic and sometimes it'll even set certain fault-like combinations or specific check engine light codes that the very first procedure is to disconnect the ground or negative of the 12-volt battery for 60 seconds or longer and then reconnect it to the car also disconnecting the 12 volt battery is also the poor man's way of resetting the check engine light without a scan tool sometimes there is faults with one or more of a computers in the car which many are responsible for communicating battery status stuff and when those computers fail but not in a catastrophic way, it does not necessarily set a check engine light and can cause the car to go into its safety mode with the battery which as described earlier in this comment is to put the car into a week EV State affecting your city driving and City fuel economy. I have noticed this many times in my 2012 Prius V package 2 and I notice that it typically occurs when the situation comes down to either. I've just recently started the car and started driving and it's a cold day and I want the heat to be on. It seems to be in a semi week EV state or on really hot summer days. It goes into week EV state as well but it doesn't necessarily give me high RPMs out of the engine. It just seems that generally in normal mode the car is performance is more like eco mode for me but on occasion, I will notice my 2012 Prius V go into a properly weak EV State typically more or less when the scenario seems to be. Most likely that the hybrid battery has gotten very warm. I am a full-time rideshare driver giving passenger rides so Auto lots of non-stop driving that does have a bit of stop and go mixed in but stop and go where I'm not turning off the car and I'm only sitting there for a few minutes at a time Plus the area where I work it is quite common to be able to quickly get out onto a road that has a speed limit of 40 mph or higher where I typically set my cruise control at 43. Mph or even 45 mph with my cruise control I ran my original battery to 400,000 mi and my replacement battery has over 40,000 mi on it itself now and both batteries seem to behave about the same and give me about the same fuel economy in the car. Sometimes I notice that I have a really great really strong EV state and other times I notice that it can be kind of weak, but that is not much of a surprise, especially when you're low enough on state of charge that the car needs to run the gasoline engine specifically to run generator mode to charge up the hybrid battery because it is at a low enough state of charge so if you were skimping out on climate control to try to get better fuel economy, in some cases it could be costing you fuel economy because the battery could be too hot. If you're trying to not run the air conditioner to save the load on the battery, it could cause the car to not cool off the passenger compartment enough, which is where the air for the hybrid cooling system is pulled from or in the winter. It's just things are too cold in general and you will be in a partial week EV state, meaning the car will run the gasoline engine because it needs the gasoline engine to be warm in order to be able to heat the passenger compartment, but especially during the summer if you're noticing weak EV State, even if your battery is at a good state of charge, it is because the battery is most likely a little bit too warm and it would be beneficial to actually turn the air conditioner on and turn it up to cool off the inside of the car.
I will read all of this later... but i have tested much of what you're talking about like how temperature effects the Hybrid Battery and am aware of this.
See here: th-cam.com/video/Bhb0qcmFFHM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=EorDb3MFrxUOYJtU
And here: th-cam.com/video/1TqN_Z49Cbg/w-d-xo.html
What I'm talking about specifically is a Macro level software State that exists outside of any other parameter that can effect the Hybrid Battery like to cold of temp, too hot of temp, SOC, etc.
Given the exact same circumstance... everything else being the same.... one Prius will use EV Output Aggressively while another will not due to phantom software (MAX EV State or WEAK EV State) that is macro level and supersedes/encapsulates all other potential factors that could effect the Hybrid Battery.
My guess as to why MAX and WEAK Aev exist is because the Prius engages WEAK EV until Hybrid Battery Helath/SOC is verified by multiple consecutive highway commutes in a row. Once health is verified MAX EV Engages.
I have been experiencing this since i bought my gen 2 Prius...and this has been making my gen 2 to have inconsistent power outputs when driving it from standstill... Ie there are times the car will behave like it is powerful and wil even go uphill effortlessly even when the battery is showing 2 red bars of SOC without engine revving up loudly, but there are times the car go uphill with gas pedal depressed a little bit harder and engine would revv up louder to go up on the same hill even if the SOC is 5 bars..,this also is making car to have inconsistent acceleration..
I have tried to resolve the issue by looking at hv battery, change spark plugs, change intake manifold, cleaning throttle body, change MAF sensor nothing has happened, the car still behave the same..
Now i have identified that whwn i drive this gen 2 Prius with traction control off, it a little. Improves, even the mpg goes up. (Note i have never had any battery issues/hybrid system issues)
What are ambient temps at your location? An overly hot or Cold Hybrid Battery effects the Maximum EV Outout and Input allowed and can lead to acceleration issues. You can see how Hybrid Battery Output is affected in this video here: th-cam.com/video/Bhb0qcmFFHM/w-d-xo.html&si=drANmoEKxnEyImHL
Horsepower output from the Hybrid Battery in it's optimal temp range of 77-125°F is 28hp
At 32°F it's 12hp
At 0°F it's less than 5hp
Ok, I live in tropical area, and coastal area too, Tanzania where the temperature during summer time ranges between 30°c to 35°c, but during rain season the temperature ranges btwn 23°c to 30°c.
Though to make sure my prius HV battery run on appropriate temps i always use dr prius app to run the battery cooling fan at higher speed..so my HV battery is always running at 29°c to 32°c. Given the ambient temp is always ranging btn 23°c to 35°c.
I even noticed the same, when the traction is off I get more improvement with the engine hp.
Overall the hybrid system behaves weirdly.
You must use Tech scream and rest it all.
Any updates on this for triggering Max EV persistently? I thought I was crazy for the last year and a half after I had to reset the computer due to a window glitch(window button stopped working but worked after computer reset). Car has been running the ICE way more since then and my average MPG dropped about 8 overall. Would love to know if you’ve had any breakthroughs. Just a thought, perhaps a hard computer reset when disconnecting the battery could possibly damage something on the circuit board over time that eventually triggers the Weak EV state? Hard to say for sure but I’m definitely leaning towards software. Perhaps a software engineer can look through everything for us haha.
In the meantime, I’ll use your tutorial for installing EV Mode switch and do that. :)
I'm working on a final video and I hope it will have enough evidence compiled efficiently so that I can present it to Toyota and they'll attempt to fix the issue.
@@JoMophee Sounds great! Excited to see it. Your other videos also motivated me to get a Bluetooth OBD II reader and install an EV mode button as well(which is kinda fun to play with, thanks for that detailed tutorial!). Feel free to reach out if you want data from another Prius owner to use, I’d love to see this issue fixed. There should be a contact email in my bio. :)
Finally someone else noticed the exact same thing that still is puzzling me, I don’t know much about Ev cars but I was looking arround if there’s any company local to me can remap my 2007 Prius so that when I accelerate the Ev mode stays on longer. Please someone has the answer to change this setting so it delays the ICE from turning on so quickly
What I noticed is opposite with my 2007 prius, 251k miles, when I disconnect the battery or reset the consumption the Prius goes in to the max Ev state, let me explain.. the first few miles I will average 60+ miles then after say 8miles drive in city at about 30-35mph it will settle to about 52mpg, then after that it will start to decrease to about 30mpg and stay there, this is in 1-5c temp here in the uk. I have been messing about to see what helps and from what I noticed it if the engine is at normal operating temp and you reset the consumption and drive say 3 miles city driving 30mph you will get over 65mpg
@@kayali8842 I don't think you're describing what I am in the video.
When Hybrid Battery Temps are at around 0°C... Maximum Hybrid Battery Output will be throttled to about 14 horsepower from it's maximum of 28 horsepower... So based upon temperature alone, your Hybrid Battery Power Output will be significantly reduced until the Hybrid Battery warms up to it's operating temp of 77°F.
It's also normal for the ICE to run much more often in winter and if you're driving very short distances of course mpg readings will vary wildly. You have to take the average mpg over the course of many miles not just a few where terrain and driving style can effect mpg readings signifcantly. You can directly measure the low mpg mechanism I'm describing by measuring EV Horsepower Output.
If you disconnect the 12v Battery it will absolutely cause the WEAK EV State due to it resetting software in the Hybrid Control ECU that Dictates EV useage.
I'm still working on a final post for this and it will hopefully be done in a couple months. I appreciate the interest.
@@JoMophee today I just reset the consumption after warming up the engine, I drove 6miles and got 46mpg, first 2miles I got 67mp and first mile I got 99mpg. I made a short video of the first mile only, but my point is after I warmed up my engine and reset consumption my Ev mode stayed on longer like I could accelerate upto like 25 mph before the ICE kicked on. I made a video of the first mile showing 99.2mpg and that was heavy traffic not going above 32mph.
So you are right but in my case when I reset my consumption it goes into max Ev state, and mpg slowly goes down untill locked back into weak Ev state, as you mentioned I think becouse I drive in heavy traffic my prii don’t meet certain conditions
th-cam.com/users/shortsD7y2p4m7OK8?si=fRApg1F_UfnlhC_U
Your office never has an LLV or Metris for you to use? Last I remember it was $.93/mile they pay you for using your vehicle, so you're doing good even with the worst mpg Prius. During the holidays I was using my 11 mpg Suburban to run Amazon on Sundays sometimes, with the size of the packages 46 stops had it 100% full with 3rd row removed and 2nd row folded down.
Yeah I drive 106 mile mail route. My Prius used to get 40-48 mpg in the MAX EV State. So 2.5 gallons of gas used a day and roughly $100 for mileage. In the WEAK EV State it gets 30-35 mpg. So 3.5 gallons instead. The Prius also has other benefits like the transmission never shifting making it near invincible and Regenerative Braking which takes alot of the brake load off of the hydraulic brakes so brakes last a long time. I use a 2004 Honda CR-V during the winter now which gets around 15 mpg.
2004 power ✌️😁
I have experienced this on my gen 3. Any way to trigger max ev?
I will be going through that In my final video/post.
What's worked for me in the past to trigger the MAX EV State was multiple drive cycles in a row of highway speed driving.
So does that basically mean going on a long road trip in order to get it back to functioning correctly at max ev levels?
@holylabs Possibly. That is what used to work to trigger the MAX EV State... but that stopped working for me after a 12v Disconnect 3 years ago. And for whatever reason other Priuses seem to become chronically stuck in the WEAK EV State as well.
@@JoMopheeMr JM thank for this video.. I have 2 questions
To run the AC overnight in a Gen 3 Prius.. for every 6 minutes the ICE runs.. it powers the AC fior 54 minutes with the ICE off... Is the Gen 2 Prius comparable?
2nd quest... Will installing a NEXCEL lithium battery keep the Prius hybrid mode in the peak power curve? Those cells cost around $2600 delivered..
@camposvazquez @camposvazquez For the AC Question.... Gen 2 is very comparable since the Hybrid Batterys are the exact same in terms of Capacity and Battery chemistry. Very little difference between both the Hybrid Battery and AC System in Gen 2 and Gen 3.
As far as installing Nexcell Lithium... it won't really change anything in terms of peak power curve. The Battery ECU still thinks there is NiMh Chemistry in the pack and regulates EV Output on the basis of that.
my gen 3 starts for no reason at all i got to the point of shutting it off at long lights it has bad software!!!
There is most likely a reason it's starting... whether your running AC, the Hybrid Battery is nearly fully charged, the Hybrid Battery is too hot, Hybrid Battery is low on charge, you're running the heat etc. I'd have to know more of the circumstances around your Prius "starting for no reason". There are lots of reasons it may be starting that are perfectly explainable... you're just not aware of the cause.