He is such a sweet man. Sometimes members paint “anti-Mormons” as angry and antagonistic. He is just a sweet, lovely guy who was on an honest quest for truth. Wishing him love and joy. 💕
I agree. Listen to John. He’s the same. He wants nothing but the best for those who prosecuted him. He even says they are good men in a broken system ......Except the home teachers who spied on him.
you've never actually talked to him have you? He can be sweet and lovely during an interview but the mask drops pretty quickly when you talk to him in person.
There are answers to all of his questions . All of them. But I would wonder if he would even listen to answers . Plus some of the things he says are not even true . For one why does his letter say there is a blood atonement?? And if he things that what exactly does he think it is ? There is no blood atonement . He just thinks there is because he has no idea what it is or what it means . He is so far off . But I would love him or anyone on here to explain what they think a blood atonement is . I think I know what they are talking about but first I would like to see what they think or feel it is . Also the air heads on here that day things about the temple like hand shakes . There are no hand shakes . These people are just nutty and full of air. I would love to see the response essays . That he feels did not answer him . Can you post them or put up how to see them . Thanks .
I am very grateful for the tremendous amount of work Jeremy Runnells has put into the CES letter. Anyone considering joining the faith should read it before they do. Any person that is currently a member of the church should read it.
Guess what?, he didn't write it on his own. He crowdsourced the thing on the exmormon subreddit. Guess what? he profits from it, a lot, so does Dehlin from this podcast. Guess, what?, he is lying when he says he wrote it as a seeker of truth in a faith crisis seeking answers to his questions. Jeremy announced in October 2012 the reddit world, that he had left the church and wanted to figure out how to keep his kids from being brainwashed by the Church. He and Dehlin make their living tearing down the church.
Anyone considering the things in the CES letter would do well to look up the evidence for the answers to the questions, rather than knee-jerk along with the author! Real, satisfying answers to those questions brings a life of joy!! Those who won't look honestly for the answers don't really want answers.
@@zubenelgenubi Just because I advocate for the CES letter doesn't mean I took it at the others word. I can tell that it is better researched and referenced than anything the church has written. I have also read the standard works, prayed, attended the temple, etc. I wanted to believe. I think you're the one that isn't allowing yourself to look honestly. You have no idea how infuriating it is to have someone like you assume that I didn't do diligent research and study. I probably know the doctrine better than you. Now your canned response is that I am one of "those that studied too much and forgot the simple truths". I've heard it all. Accept that not everyone will come to the same conclusion that your missionary/mom/bishop told you. The CES letter is being attacked because it's easy to digest, well researched/referenced, and it's exposing the scam that Mormonism is. CES letter is 100% accurate proven almost entirely by the churches own records.
I disagree. I (an ex Morm) will never advise my loved ones to read it unless they ask me about why I left the church which they never have and which they never will. Leaving the church …I’m incredibly grateful I escaped, but it’s not for me to decide if it would make them happy or not. I know that the “leaving” part for me was long (years) and painful. As Jeremy mentions, when you leave folks don’t say, “oh well thanks for your service! Hope you come visit! We loved having you!” Oh no no no. It is tears and sobbing; it is breaking mother’s heart; breaking up the family; it is quiet whispers; it is major social changes. It is a social upheaval of epic proportions. If any of my family or friends had ever asked or if they do ever ask why I left the church I will share, but they never did and they never will… unless they’ve already decided the church isn’t for them. And yes! I actually have ONE cousin and ONE sibling who have also divorced the church! My cousin called me to let me know the joyous news and, though we weren’t and aren’t close (geographically or emotionally) he told me it was a big comfort to him knowing his cousin had made the journey! We went out for drinks the weekend when the family was together for our grandmother’s funeral. I never told my Grammie I was an atheist or that I had officially taken my name and those of my children off of church records because she didn’t need to know and it would have just broken her heart as it did (and does every day) my mother’s. No reason to do that to my elderly Grammie. My sister and I are close and she is also grateful to me and that I am here to help her through this journey. And she thinks that me being openly atheist has softened the blow when she officially rescinded her membership. As for me, I am beyond grateful that I am not alone! Of ALL my dozens and dozens of relatives (both sides), cousins, siblings, in-laws, nieces, nephews I finally have TWO other non-Mormons in addition to my three children! I’m so happy to not be the “devastating lost soul” to be pitied and judged all on her own. 💕
I am leaving the church this very moment. Just started my journey last Sunday. It is the hardest thing I have ever done to tell my wife and bishop. I'm 35 and have been married for 12 years. I am also currently serving as the executive secretary. My bishop has been great so far and so has my wife.
Dustin M what made you leave? We recently left and so far it has been quiet but only because I basically had to alienate myself from LDS friends that were not respectful. I'm sad to lose friends but I also feel free from lies and anxiety.
@@natistotallyoutnumbered9558 yeah it's funny. They say that people should be respectful of their values when they're around them, but then they turn around and get salty at us for playing music that swears when to most of us, it's just a normal part of language. You don't want to hear it? Leave. There are some Mormon friends I have that I genuinely respect, but there are a few that absolutely make me lose my shit.
Dustin I’m so glad you have found the truth and have the strength to live authenticity. It’s hard to stay once you know it’s not true. As a Catholic I find it so odd that you have to explain to your Bishop that your leaving. We just simply don’t turn up. We don’t get harassed for it or questioned over it. They don’t have our phone numbers or addresses. That part of LDS does seem cultish, as well as other things. I’m so glad your wife and Bishop have been good to you about it. You have to live honestly. God bless you and your family.
Corruption when the bible testifies that the Church of Jesuschrist of latter day saints is true no other church has so much biblical clearance like this one
Haha I was that weird psycho who poof left the church and was fine and left it alone.(but I was only 17) But now like 15 years later am like interested in what the actual history of the church is since I was involved with it for the first 17 years of my life. So happy there are so many resources now. Thanks for putting all of this together.
Lol me too..i was 15, born, raised and baptized into the church. I was only allowed to hangout with other mormons and went to church twice a week during that time. I think i was guided to be rebellious in the way i was and i believe that getting pregnant at 15 on my very first time, was intentional by God to bring in another soul and to give me an easy out of the church at the perfect time, because at 15 i knew enough about the church to understand, but didn't go far enough to let them bind ("seal") my soul, which i now believe is against God's true plan. We're already allllll connected and we all are already rejoined with family and God when we die, we don't need church for that. It's automatic thanks to jesus. The issue is reincarnation is real and the sealings the mormon church does are against God and against what our souls truly want. They're not supposed to be bound and suppressed from ever leaving. They're meant to be free to choose. The leaders aren't honest with the members about what effects the sealing rituals will truly have. They're leading you all into a forever prison, not paradise. I pray people learn and research before allowing these bindings to be put on their souls or deceased loves ones.. the spirits don't really get a choice as leaders claim, it's a prison eternity forced onto them and it's wrong and evil.
This is very interesting to listen to. I'm still a member (edit: not anymore) and have been reading the CES letter. Seeing this interview you can see this guy is genuine, kind, and his attitude towards the church/mission is not really what I expected. He has a better attitude about his mission than I have about mine
@@isaacmathews4693 as you find more information it is normal to update, to revise and addend. Is the church changing information to manipulate or to reveal and repent for its sins?
@@Mlum191 not so much anymore. Too many things I couldn't get past. I feel like my biggest problem was really that our main distinction as a church is supposed to be the guidance from modern prophets, and yet we've been behind the curve on things like racism, gays, missionary wellbeing, etc for a long time and still are behind. The historicity of the book of Mormon is also a big issue for me, among many other historical issues of the church. I have basically just decided that I will try to live by good values according to my own conscience. If there's a god and he has problems with my choices then I will be accountable for them. That's probably more info than you wanted but I don't know if you're struggling with a faith crisis or just curious about my status. It certainly is hard to shatter your worldview but I am adjusting
i've been in the church for 32 years. non active for about 17 of those. always felt that it wasnt true not sure why. then we reached the information age and everything my body and intuition was telling me is now confirmed. follow your intuition!
I left at 15 same reason didn't know why. Now thanks to the internet I knew I my gut was right. Good to know God's there even when the church is trying to rid him out of you
@@paulgregersen3570 there was already a church made called the constitution. I grew up in nz and they never taught us once about it. Good teachings. But it's not the true church ahaha
I left the church back in 1979 while living in Boise, ID and attending the Institute. I only just heard about and read the letter a year ago when told about it by my youngest sister who had converted (our family in around 1974?), been excommunicated while she was in the 10th grade (THAT’s a story!) and rejoined the church when she was in her 40’s and then just left again a couple of years ago. When I read the letter I was so angry about all the poor people who have been lied to over the years and RELIEVED I had left the church before ever going through the trauma (it WOULD have been traumatic for me back then) of going through the temple. But the church left me with deep emotional scares even in the few years I had been a member and deeper insecurities that led me down an unhealthy path and eventually into an abusive relationship. I’m happy this man did the research he did and took the time to write such a well laid out discussion of his findings. Made more common sense than the church EVER did!
I can relate to Jeremy's faith to be healed. I was told repeatedly that if you had faith you could be healed. Who has more faith and sincere belief than a child? I had things I wished to be healed of and no matter how often, long, or intensely I prayed I never was. I started to realize as a kid it wasn't real. Most people do. It's the bluffing the church encourages that kept me going and I am sure many others. "The best way to get a testimony is to bear your testimony" In other words, tell everyone you know it's true and eventually you will start to believe it! Everyone is saying they know it's true when they have all the same doubts as me. And round and round it goes until you have been going to church for 20, 30, or 40 years and it has just been drilled into your head. By that time you have devoted so much time and money and sacrificed so much that not believing would be almost impossible.
That the issue when you testify something is becuase you have a clear direct spritual sealing that is true but when you come up with people that go to the mission be in the temple cerimony and still have doubts you lied breaking one the ten commanments of God thou shall not bear false testimony if you still had dopubts dont bear it dont say it its dumb to render to peer pressure even in the The church of jesus christ of latter day saints giving false testimony to somethin you know its not true becuase you had no confirmation what so ever then you are faking it and that my friend makes you a deciever a liar and you will fall
Yep... Except that Martin Luther accidentally started a new and heretical sect without meaning to, whereas this guy just exposed the fallacy of a new and heretical sect. There is no "Runnulite" branch of Mormonism. He didn't start a new church, like Luther did... He's just telling the truth about a boring old American sex cult from the 1800's..
I wish I had gotten out 25 years ago! I was in for 40 years, and only figured out the truth five years ago. I had done very careful research, checking sources again and again. I shudder when I remember the times that I followed the Mormon "Spirit" in making important decisions, then crashed. I wish I could get those years back, now that I know the truth.
Gosh I feel like such a rookie. I left last March after the SEC ruling against the church. I could have saved so much tithing money over the years for my struggling family if I had found it when you did.
First time seeing and learning what/ who Jeremy Renells is. I was told he was a liar and to not listen to anything he says. HE is sincere and humble. This has been empowering. DEC 10th, 2023 was my last day to consider myself LDS.
Oh, and also when I heard Mr. Runnells talking about how his family came across the prairie and all that, it reminded me of my sister who is LDS faithful, and how people in her ward look down on her because she comes from a jack-Mormon family. That infuriates me that people would think their ancestors' doings make them superior. This illustrates the human aspect of this whole church.
The church is full of ego. We're all connected, all one, all of God's source energy. Being "sealed" isn't necessary because we're ALREADY connected and cant be separated. Theres no hell or separated heavens. We're all one and can go where we please, but being sealed BINDS YOUR SOUL IN A PRISON for eternity when our souls are meant to be free and reincarnate when we want. Even chris langan, the 200 IQ quantum physicist believes this based on science. Binding in life, like a marriage til death is fine, but binding a soul for eternity TRAPS IT, not in a paradise. What they're doing is manipulative and evil. I've even had visions and dreams from those who've been sealed contacting me, its terrible and scary they're doing this to people. I believe the reason is very dark. Get out while you can. The leaders seek control and power at the expense of members. And I'm considered a member still, although I'm inactive. They aren't taught the truth, and if they try to look for it, they're attacked or gaslighted into not researching the reasons for bindings and such. Very Masonic and occult, and although i don't believe occult is evil, it depends how its used. They're not using it for good. Thus the secrecy
They say when you leave the church you have lost your testimony...when you loose something you did not mean to part with it.. leaving the church is because you have dropped your testimony. A wieght you Choose not carry anymore.
The whole testimony thing is brainwashing. They even use it against you when you leave. The fact that after decades in the church you still have to hear ‘this church is true’ just erks me! It should be about God first. How many times must you hear your church is true? No other church goes on and on about it, it’s brainwashing. You should there to learn about God and pray to him. Not be brainwashed and hear everyone’s testimonies. I don’t want to hear what man says. I want to hear God’s word.
Wow! Jeremy and I must have grown up in the same stake in San Diego. Lance B Wickman was my stake President too! Thank you for the work you did to help me wake up from my cultish stupor.
I'm an ex-mo and I can hardly understand why I thought the way I did from birth to 20 years old. The only way I can explain it is that I was brainwashed. I understand that now. I quietly walked away from the church. Due to life events, I've moved twice and when I got married, I changed my name. I've never had the church bother me/find me. My Dad says they knocked on his door to check on me but I had already moved away and a couple years had passed. He said they had heard I "just moved in" which makes no sense. 5 years have passed since I walked away and I'm in a TH-cam rabbit hole simply because I came across a random video called "why I left the lds church". I had reasons for leaving and I wondered if their reasons echoed mine. So far, I haven't found anyone with the same reasons as me. There's plenty of reasons to leave. PLENTY! (Most people seem to be leaving because of how sketchy the history of the church is.) But my reasons were how Singles Ward works. How creepy it is. How it doesn't make since why God is the way they explain. I believe in God and He is very different from the way Mormonism teaches (in my opinion). I'm never going back. I never want to join another cult. I have a much happier life.
I go by the New Testament & Jesus as our savior. I loved his teachings, his example, who he was. I love him & God as Jesus honored & described him. Jesus was perfect & if any church authority, even a prophet, contradicts what He taught, I go with WWJD. Prophets are human & have flaws & biases. The LDS church coming up with CTR, I guess just to be different, is very subjective. Jesus' example is not!
I am not Mormon, but seems to me if I had given 10 percent of my income over the years, to support such an organization that perpetuates what I would now realize as a fraud, I would be hiring an attorney, and suing to get my tithe back.
I believe the fleeced, flock (cult) members sign an (acknowledgement) statement when they pay that they are paying of their own free will, under no coercion, and understand that the Church (cult) will use the $$ however it chooses. If this is true, I imagine it is/was the Cult's attempt to protect itself from litigation.
I found the letter website four days ago. It was Saturday Dec 14, 2019. I think I'm done with church and it hurts. I'm going to tell my wife and tear up my recommend this week so maybe I can sleep at night again
@@DeRothschild So far--No. I told her two Sundays ago and now some days are really hard while others are just medium hard. Last night she was talking about the 12th article of faith and how we must follow our nation's laws. I piped up, "Joseph didn't follow the laws of the nation!" She didn't appreciate it. I could tell she was thinking about leaving but I don't think she will at this point. I suppose I'll know better in a few months
@@germanslice ridiculous is giving your wife or 15 year old daughter to a guy because he heard a voice in his head that said you had to do it. If a prophet tried to take my wife or daughter we'd be down to 14 instead of 15
@@billiondollardan You don't seem to understand that back in those days it was not uncommon for some girls of 15-18 years to marry. For my great great great grandmother married when she was only 15 years of age to her husband of 21 years.. But if you're gonna believe this clown with his CES letter who only has a pre school education on God then that's your loss. I don't believe the guy and his trash letter hes published because I have more KNOWLEDGE than he has about God so I'm not deceived by his cunning arguments..
That the issue when you testify something is becuase you have a clear direct spritual sealing that is true but when you come up with people that go to the mission be in the temple cerimony and still have doubts you lied breaking one the ten commanments of God thou shall not bear false testimony if you still had dopubts dont bear it dont say it its dumb to render to peer pressure even in the The church of jesus christ of latter day saints giving false testimony to somethin you know its not true becuase you had no confirmation what so ever then you are faking it and that my friend makes you a deciever a liar and you will fall
From 37:50... this gentleman has it right... Mormon Stories Podcast is an arena for free discussion among people of goodwill, and I have yet to encounter here the nastiness that can prevail on other deconstruction/deprogramming sites. This is why I come here time and again! We're all adults here, we're friends, and we can be kind! Thank you for this venue.
As a non Mormon who grew up in Utah I was aware of the true church history for years including information on the CES letters. Because the LDS faith is the predominate faith in Utah most of my friends growing up and as adults have been of the faith. Many would confide in me things they would never tell a fellow Mormon out of fear of the price they would pay beyond excommunication such as loss of job if the employer was of the Mormon faith and divorce from wife along with being shunned by fellow Mormons. To those reading this who have never lived in Utah and don't know much about the Mormon faith know this .. The Mormon faith is just not a religion but a controlling culture where members watch, spy and report on each other much like communism. In the past church leaders were successful at hiding true church history using this method of intimidation and isolation of their people from "Gentiles " a name Mormons give to non Mormons but with the advent of the internet many of their younger adherents to the faith are leaving after finding the true church history online.
May I point out that this culture of spying on each other to make sure everyone conforms to the ideology is not a communism thing but an authoritarian/dictatorship thing. The fascists did it as well, the americans did it a lot during their communist witch hunts, and just about all cults regardless of political alignment do it.
Jeremy's story, brilliantly told, illustrates the profound loss and grief--and trauma--involved in the leaving process. It's like an amputation. You learn to cope, but it's oh, so different. It's a divorce and with divorce, its tentacles reach into so many different aspects of so very many lives; even the family dog is depressed/traumatized. I was a "cradle catholic," the equal to the TBM. I can really identify, as my family is still soooo catholic. I really understand your feelings of loss, grief, anger, betrayal--there are hundreds of feelings, the trauma is so significant. When Shakespeare wrote, "To thine own self be true." he forgot to say how traumatic this experience is. We're either true to ourselves or true to the lie...wish it could be somewhere in the middle...
Why is everyone leaving for, I been in the church for 28 years, you guys are pathetic who just want to knee jerk at the first shock list you come across and get up and leave and cast away your eternal blessings. Where was your testimonies of the Atonement?....Did you have any testimony at all?
@@germanslice l have plenty of faith in the true God of the Holy Bible which l have realized is NOT the false god of the King Follet Discourse that Joseph Smith taught and the progression to godhood that Mormonism teaches in which man progresses to become a god and god has once been a man. This is a fantasy that came out of Joseph Smith's head. You assume that when people leave the Mormon church they lose their eternal blessings. You are in a false pagan religion based on Freemasonic Luciferian concepts. You cannot be saved by the false gods or the temple ordinances that the Mormon church offers. Only the True Christ who is The Jesus of Nazareth of the Historical Holy Bible , the real one can save you. Please open your mind and research. "Search all things and hold fast to that which is good" The truth cannot be harmed by inspection. It shines brightly. The lies crumble. May God bless you.
The lies and the damage the Mormon church dors to families and individuals is huge. I am so much happier now that I have left. Thanks for all your help in my own story Jeremy and John
Thank you, I left the church nine and half months ago and found the real Christ, I am free, there are no words to describe it. If you are a Mormon please read 1st John, and the new testament, and ponder it. it will change you!!
THE GUY WHO WROTE THE CES LETTER WAS JUST A REGULAR PERSON! I’ve been listening to mormon stories for about 2 years? I’m a never mo and never really looked back at old episodes unless they are suggested to me. Well I am shocked! I can’t believe the church ignored him. They definitely know it’s not real. Other wise the people in charge would have said more.
This young man has given me clarity. I'm 7th generation Mormon on both sides but I'm at least 1 generation older I left the church in 1978 but was never "angry" ex Mormon I left SLC in late 78 ( like new years 78-79 🤣) lived in the south from 79 -now pretty much I went back for almost a year (09) helped my dad graduate hospice I was never unhappy with the church until my mother's cousin (Dallon Oaks) spoke at her funeral. When the overflow was full we all went outside to transport her to the cemetary everyone was flipping their smart phones to make sure they got his "talk" on tape nobody even knew who I was??? Sad 😥
It sounds like people went just to hear Oaks speak, because he's a Mormon celebrity. Did he talk about your mother or did it turn into a church conference talk about a different subject (other than your mom). Did he bare his testimony at the end? It's so hard losing a parent, I think I'd be very upset if the funeral turned into something about someone else.
As a non-Mormon, I found this fascinating. Jeremy's pain and struggle is so authentic. A few years ago I read Under the Banner of Heaven and wondered how ANYONE could believe this stuff. Jeremy has made me understand, at least to a much greater degree. My question to former Mormons is this: Do you think the most senior members of your church believe the teachings and church approved history wholeheartedly or are they knowingly misguiding others because it benefits them it some way... (e.g. financially, community status, etc.) After reading Going Clear, I didn't think for a second David Miscavige believes the teachings of Scientology. But I can't tell what Jeremy's thoughts are on this point. I have only listened to the first of the 3 parts so maybe he addresses it later. I feel badly for Mormons who, after going through an honest assessment of what they are being taught can no longer buy it. They lose a lifelong belief system they have outgrown but sadly seem to lose family and friends who they may need more than ever. That's kind of suckie.
I genuinely don't believe Thomas S Monson and other heads of the church believe or fully follow the gospel they preach at all. It's always a gut feeling I had when I watched them talk. Especially Henry B Eyring and his crocodile tears, he always puts on the theatrics for conference.
Ok - I'll bite. YES - I believe that the most senior members of my Church believe the teachings and history wholeheartedly, including the difficult and tough parts of that history. If you look at their career paths, most of them would be more successful financially outside of the Church (do the research, look at their career paths), so why stay inside?
Good question! After much thought, I have made up my mind on that question... No. I don't believe that they believe in it. People only hide things that could potentially incriminate them if found. If you actually believe this is the one true gospel, then you should also have faith in it's ability to withstand the issues that lie within it's history... Obviously they don't because in the 20 years I attended church, seminary, Lds camps, etc. I was never taught about any of the history issues I know about today... Because it was being deliberately withheld from me. It was never about the issues for me as much as it was about the church hiding them from me... Just sayin... If you believe it's TRUE, despite it's history issues, then trust in it enough to be honest and TRUE to the people you preach it to! I didn't want to lose my faith!! I would've rectified almost any wrong-doing in the church's past in order to keep my faith intact... But when you realize that alot of things have been kept from you, and hidden away, you really can't ignore it... It becomes so obvious that you would have to be completely out of your mind to trust someone who's been hiding things from you for so long. It wasn't even as if I had a choice anymore... I couldn't trust them anymore... Unfortunately. So now I am somewhat lost in my beliefs which sucks in and of itself... But also, I have been ostrisized by friends and family... because, as I see it, I couldn't supress common sense anymore! I get left on my own to contantly doubt my own integrity and righteousness because I have been brainwashed to believe that members who leave are bad people and can't quite get rid of that particular belief. So to agree with your final sentence... It does, indeed, REALLY suck!!
Personally, I think there are some that are trying to hide their vices behind "righteousness". It's also a super steady, super easy form of income. But I definitely think there are some that genuinely believe what they preach. The prophets might honestly think that the dreams and feelings they have are guided by God, but don't realize it's just their subconscious.
2024…. My husband is blind and deaf. He’s had a couple blessings. He was told once when he worked in the temple that he be able to see what he needed to see and hear what he needed to hear. That sort of happened. But his blindness and deafness progressed. When we left the church ( still deconstructing) my husband (with my Lions Club and doing eye screenings) teaching Kindergarteners to respect the cane. We are glad he wasn’t healed.
What makes me most angry is the covering up of blood oaths in the temple. The reminants are still there they just don't go through the motions of slicing your throat and stomach. When the thumb is extended the still represents a knife or a blade. I would never take my kids to the temple and makes those gestures with them 🤬🤯😡🤢 The LDS church fits the definition of a cult in every way.
I watched all three videos going from the 3rd to the 2nd to the 1st and really find Jeremy's quest for plain truth about whether mormonism is true or not quite impressive. To me the three videos is one of the best mormon stories i've seen ! Way to go John and Jeremy! I also like the fingerpicking guitar !
Truth is not harmful or scary or dangerous. Those qualities belong to falsehood. I read that in David R. Hawkin's books. Probably the scariest thing for me, having left the Church, was that if you deny the Holy Spirit you are doomed. For me, what I identified as an experience of the Holy Spirit was basically getting a sales job that I ought to do what the Elders were saying. I still feel frightened by the evil spirit of that deep-level bit of coercion. I have faith now that what's true can't be tarnished and that only God knows who and what is true. Meanwhile, people's own way of denying the truth about themselves, and instead living life completely according to how they'd like to present themselves, goes on. When we begin to differentiate ourselves from our borrowed self-images, we evolve.
+Lisa Colorado The Holy spirit is not tied to only one spesific church. In fact the Greek word translated to "church" means "the whole body of Christian believers."
I don't understand why complicated analysis of Mormon teachings is needed to undermine your "testimony." For me it was common sense. The fact that the doctrine changed over time contradicted the story of the founding. If God restored the "one true church" to Joseph Smith, why did it change again and again on Polygamy? Why did it change again and again on the "black curse.?" Does God change his mind that often? The simplest answer that explains things is usually the right answer. In this case, the simplest answer is that Joseph Smith made it all up, and like many cult leaders, used his influence to gain power, control, and sex. Fairly common actually.
Reading some of these comments, and it's frankly terrifying. It's terrifying, the tall tales that people will believe. It's terrifying that cults can exist, and thrive, off of the desperation of humans need for meaning. It's terrifying that so many are willful slaves to the oldest system of control. And so I wonder, why? We, each of us, has so much potential within us, and yet some would sacrifice their entire being to a set of fairy tales. We are our own gods. It is by our hands that the future is made. Be free.
In 1997 I wrote a letter asking a few of these questions to F.a.r.m.s. I did get an answer... it was that I should beg God for forgiveness for having questions in the first place.
I very much resonate with this man, as I had a similar experience but long before his. My letter went to the first presidency during a very hard time in my life when my mother was dying of breast cancer. and I very much wished to communicate with my mother in heaven. This opened a whole can of worms with my bishop who was unable to answer any of these difficult concerns for me, stake president who was also a sitting state senator wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole, so I wrote a letter to the general presidency. What a crazy life I had in store for me!
@@lynnefox4892, the world rejects the Bible because they reject the Gospel. But you don’t put the Book of Mormon and the Bible in the same category and neither do I. You believe in the Book of Mormon because you have been taught that you will be on the losing side if you don’t. I believe in the Bible because the evidence is that it is true.
What Jeremy did was absolutely brilliant. I saw the CES letter early, i think, and sent several copies out; one, I think was to Mormon Think, My laptop at that time stopped working last year. just went "click" and was gone....and my access too. As I'm retired the money to get the hard drive downloaded is nil, but, I know I can still see it other places, and have. I admire Jeremy immensely. Wish him the best life possible. Sadly he will never know how many lives he will make better......but it will be at least tens of thousands.
Good interview. You can understand his sincerity. I’m glad for the points he raised...causes us all to think more deeply about our faith. I don’t know everything but I do believe in Christ. That’s my anchor when other things are uncertain. Maybe one day we will have all the answers but some things have to be taken on faith for now. I appreciate all the research people do and share. God bless your journey.
a small suggestion, on my personal journey i researched if the bible was legit, i satisfied myself it is the only thing legit,, my small suggestion is to read the whole bible, but start with the new testament, and after my research the one lds got right is the king james is the most literal translation we have in english, ymmv,, Jesus bless you and yours
"They leave the church but can't leave it alone" is what is used to keep you silent. Sadly, those who try to keep others silent are the ones who cause the upset, anger, and pain.
I think it's interesting that John asks if he remembers the first time he read about polyandry, because I totally remember. I was in the BYU bookstore. Yeah, that shook me pretty hard.
+Severian Wintermute polyandry is one of my favorite examples of how poorly researched anti-mormon claims are and the double-standard they apply to evidence. The majority of their "evidence" for polyandry is in the form of journal entries and personal statements made by people. Now, are journal entries and personal statements PROOF? Because if so then we must accept that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God who performed many miracles including healing people because there are many accounts of him doing so in people's journals and personal statements. But anti-mormons want to have their cake and eat it too. If someone writes in their journal that they were sealed to Joseph Smith then that's "proof" to them that it happened but if the same person testified that Joseph was a prophet and healed a lame woman so that she could walk, well, that's just a story. And there's plenty of evidence they just ignore or lie about. If polyandry was actually happening then why is there no real evidence to support it? If my wife married another man, I'd divorce her, plain and simple. None of these women had that happen. No children were born to them with Joseph even slightly claimed as the father, not a single mention of this. So as is the case with pretty much all anti-mormon claims this is a subject that is heavy on accusations but so very very light on actual evidence to support it and contradicting a lot of the evidence we do have. P.S. the best is when they try to use "In Lonesome Silence" to support their claims as that is the most poorly researched book I have ever seen in my life. It's a perfect example of anti-mormon books that just quote other anti-mormon books as their source and those books are quoting other anti-mormon and it turns out to all be a house of cards with no evidence at the bottom beyond some journal entries (which we've already discussed the validity of.)
+Andrew Conor You probably don't realize that LDS.org has acknowledged Joseph's polyandry. You need to read the essays buddy. DnC states that polygamy is only commanded in order to produce offspring, if Joseph did not produce offspring with his wives then he was breaking the very law of polygamy. The sealing power wasn't even restored when he was already practicing and he married 14 year olds AND sisters AND Mother and Daughter, ALL of which are against the laws of polygamy. Either way, book of Abraham, and how about Josephs own Egyptian alphabet that's complete nonsense?
+Andrew Conor you talk big but when your challenged... Crickets... Lets see your proof. Oh wait you have non just the pure bs the Mormon leaders spoon feed you.
AJ Young I'd reply if there was any need to. No one has said anything to contradict what I said. The church and/or LDS.org acknowledging polyandry provides zero evidence of anything other than showing that the LDS church appears to believe it. That's not evidence that it happened. On the contrary you guys have done a lovely job of demonstrating what I said: that anti-Mormons are full of double standards. You all want to say the church lies and doesn't know it's own history and blah blah blah but the second it says something you agree on you suddenly want us to take the church's statement on the subject to be an ironclad fact. Also hilarious to see you guys agreeing with one sentence from the essays and then ignoring the rest of the essay.
Mormons will hear this interview and say, "Your hearing has been restored via the implant!" I'm sure you have heard that. 😁 Mormons are definitely really good at "the glass is half full" perspectives. I think that becomes a necessity the longer you are in the church!
As a Deaf person, that absolutely *is* a disgusting, bigoted cliche ("you MUST be healed!") that we get. Constantly. And... so is "perform some ASL for me", which is also a rather disgusting request. Very exploitation based. Please, don't do that, it's GROSS. The lives of disabled/sick persons ***are not a performance for the amusement/curiosity of the abled***. A *lot* of this video is... deeply problematic/insulting/degrading/performative/ableist. Please, stop. The reality is CIs actually destroy part of the cochlea. Any residual hearing is destroyed to implant CIs. CI signal does not "restore" hearing, it changes sound to machine impulses that have to be learned again. You never again hear as typical folks do, and CIs have a *lot* of issues. But they are often advertised/marketed as a "solution" by lazy, bigoted communities that are unwilling to change or learn in order to support Deaf persons and Deaf culture. Importantly - CIs are *not* viewed positively by many Deaf communities. Not at ALL. Being "Deaf", capital D, is a *culture*. A language, history, community, with traditions, norms, needs. Being "hard of hearing" is simply a statement of ability. I get why *he* got a CI (immersed in a oppressive, conformist, not supportive/unwilling to learn ASL community) but CIs are *not* a universal "solution" for Deaf folks. Far from it. And they are NEVER "healing". But they sure are convenient for the able-bodied. I had a mountain of bigoted cliches about "gawd" supposedly "helping me" or "healing me" tossed on me as a hearing/then suddenly Deaf child. I was screeched at that I was being "healed" to erase neglect and harm. To FORCE me to stop asking for/needing help. All before I was SIX YEARS OLD. I heard it when using a terrible bulky FM system in school - that stayed at the school, and was, frankly, a POS. I heard it when my school care MUCH more than the churches or my family. ...unless a token "crippled kid" was needed to parade around, to increase tithes at Christmas. I was hospitalized every 2-3 months for DECADES, and having that erased, minimized, sneered at for the convenience and comfort of those who harmed me was not "healing". I was a profoundly neglected, abused kid. The family scapegoat. The target. The "b*stard". Yet I was constantly TOLD I was supposedly "helped" by a "loving" "gawd" and "father". Except "he" was a cruel, abusive monster who harmed an innocent child every day, from infancy, for simply BEING. And all that garbage came spewing out of the mouths of the supposedly "devout", both Catholics & Mormons. My hearing loss (65dB bilaterally, from a Mumps infection) was never "fixed" by "gawd" or anyone else... it was simply ignored/neglected. Rejected. Inconvenient. Religious bigots couldn't "deal", with the cognitive dissonance/doubts my mere existence brought up (a "good kid" who was "punished" with disability and severe illness and who was neglected and abused). THey all LET IT HAPPEN. They all WANTED me harmed. Gosh, how could that be?!? There were, still are, SO MANY OF US. Millions of kids are deliberately, viciously harmed, silenced, killed. And NOBODY lifts a FINGER. Nobody cares, including the "devout", and including some ridiculous fairytale "father", that only seemed to care about the already spoiled rotten and lucky. I dared to be conceived "too early". How embarrassing. How inconvenient. How dare I. They are revealed, and they RESENT being revealed. Sooooo "pro life" of them to resent and neglect and harm the results of THEIR evil choices, laziness, neglect and selfishness. 🙄🤮💩 That's the religious for you. 🤷
Thank you. Watching from Alaska. After all the years of watching I have been curious about the CES letter that is referred to but have never watched an explanation of what it is.
This is evidence of a Loving God to give to us all the intellectual innocence of a Jeremy Runnells to record the honest questions of one seeking to know the Truth. The truth will set you free
I can understand Jeremy's frustration at 41:30. I was never told about a seer stone in a top hat. The narrative we were told in the 1990s was the two stones were used with the plates in front of Joseph Smith. When it comes to much church history, there is also a lot of gaslighting.
I wrote a "CES Letter" but sent it to the First Presidency. They replied (kind and sincere) to my Bishop requesting that both he AND the stake president meet with me to discuss each point. We did over a period of several months.
@@mormonstories I did leave the church and joined a similar denomination with a similar leader from the similar time of Joseph Smith, but being who I was and the number of people I had baptized locally or had been involved with in their conversion had having completed 6 stake missions, having taught early morning seminary for several stints having taught institute at the college level, in fact one of the fair staff members at least at one time had been one of my seminary students, anyway with that background the church formally asked me to not publish my letter and not to publicly speak out against the church and I really haven't done so. This really hurt my parents who stayed faithful to the church until their deaths a few years ago, and I certainly and I know you do as well understand why the bushman's and others stay loyal and faithful to the church especially at their age because it's their whole life and the church was my whole life ...back in 1995 I ran an LDS apologetic website, which can still be found if you search my name and the word prodigy... I sent my letter to the first presidency 18 years ago and again left the church 17 years ago but I still dream of my Mormon congregations , I still dream of those I baptized , I still dream of those that I took to the temple for the first time and it's dang difficult....
Andrew Conor, I get that you believe in the church whole heartedly and that's great, but being condescending and insulting doesn't make you right or smart. if you read the responses to FAIR Mormons debunking on the CES website you'll see almost none of their arguments hold any water. otherwise why would they have changed or removed them after Jeremy responded to them? I tried to look up their responses on what I felt were the key issues and found only dead links. I The church has lied to me long enough and FAIR is just carrying on the tradition. believe what you want to but don't judge people from your pedestal. it doesn't make the church look correct or bring anyone back to the "fold". The only reason you should be arguing with someone on here is because you have a genuine desire to see them come back to Christ. insulting people doesn't accomplish that.
sorry there Harvest, didn't see your comment since you didn't reply to me directly. Being right and being smart is what makes me right and smart. I'm afraid that one of my biggest flaws is I have a hard time not pointing out when someone is being stupid. I don't respond to this weak crap to prove people like you wrong, I respond so that other people like me know they're not alone and that if they have questions the real answers are out there. FAIR and many individuals have responded to the CES letter and as Jeremy revises and redoes it they respond to his revisions too. It's not hard to look up his claims and start poking holes in them yourself. It's just a matter of whether or not you WANT to believe there's all these flaws with the gospel and are looking for an excuse to leave. There's a reason that we have three different anti-Christs in the Book of Mormon including one who flat admits he knew he was wrong and was following Satan but liked the popularity it was giving him so he kept doing it. I'm quite certain that plenty of anti-mormons know very well that they're fighting against God and just keep doing it for a variety of reasons. And I just don't have the self-control not to call them idiots when they do it.
@test I'm quite sure you're correct. Of course, our perfect example, Jesus Christ, referred to people as Fools several times as well as hypocrites and other things. So... I don't think God condemns people for calling a spade a spade.
@test I am indeed expressing my opinion here. You are correct. I'm sorry if you think I'm being sarcastic, I'm not sure why you think that since you don't know me very well but you can make whatever assumptions you like about me, my motives, intents, and whether I'm being sarcastic. You're probably wrong but that's okay.
OMG...Jeremy grew up in the same area(s) I did, and was even in the La Mirada 2nd ward. The bishop he speaks of, is Sol Kawekane. Wouldn't be something, if my childhood ward was the source of Mormonism's downfall. THAT WOULD BE ALL KINDS OF AWESOME. God speed in your quest, Jeremy. Burn it down.
The Church talks soooooo much sh** about us when we divorce it. But then they wonder why we are so traumatized when we leave. I love how Jeremy contrasts leaving the church to leaving a mission or a friend’s house or a group that wishes you well “thank you for your service, we wish you the best!”
There’s nothing new about these questions, came across them on my mission 30 years ago and they weren’t new then I just turned on my Mormon blinders and kept on my merry way
A Bishop decided custody? What court would agree to let a Bishop decide that? Even if he was qualified to do so there are some obvious conflicts there which would be totally unprofessional. There has to be more to that story. This man seems sincere and gentle, kind. I hope he has a life full of love, joy and happiness. He deserves it.
It describes a sort of self hypnosis where they convince themselves that they KNOW that the Lds church is the one true church and religion upon the face of the earth.
It would be amazing if some day someone can translate this to other languages, like I wish I could share this with my familiy that only speaks spanish.
Why does the church have to be true or false? I believe (in my case) I've moved on from the church my parents gave me a good base I know there is ONE God & He had ONE Son Jesus Christ. The church helps guide so many people who never knew of Jesus has been taught by missionaries. My dad was a missionary in Uruguay & I'm proud of him for both of his missions he later (1997-99) went to Bolivia with my mom it changed my mother I loved the woman who returned!!
I knew I could find the information I was searching for here. As a never Mormon, I’ve been reading and watching videos to learn what I can re: the roots of the LDS faith and searching for answers as to why LDS members believe what they do, and move the way they do. I have LDS family members & friends -all converts to LDS and have watched them slowly pull away from us and I needed answers. I kept hearing about the CES letter & as a new sub to your channel I thought I would come here and simply typed my question into the search bar on TH-cam next to Mormon Stories and boom 💥, what I was looking for. Thank you 🙏🏼
"Typed in Joseph Smith's polygamy." I did that. It was the spark that led me out. Not being able to hide info anymore by anything but admonition isn't working the church.
i love how they still try to defend pedophilia and polygamy aswell, its crazy, sucks that im the only one that has really put his mind out for this, the rest of my family truly believe this is the true church.
Because God nor Jesus comes first, really They believe they wouldn't have the Truth without JS Catholics put Mary above Christ with what they believe is the Truth
I have a question? The LDS says, "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's (Doctrines & Covenants 130: 22; a process of "eternal progression" by which a man becomes a god. But, in the Bible Is. 43:10; You are my witnesses, declares the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. "Before Me no god was formed, nor will there be one after Me....Don't you see 2 different God's. Mormon god was a man with parents then he became a god. Then there is the God of the Bible is Spirit and was never a man (Numbers 23:19); God is not man, nor a son of a man. See 2 different gods. Is. 44:6; I am the First, and I am the Last; and beside Me their is no God. Is. 44:8; God says, Is there a God beside Me? Yea, there is no God; I know not any. The God of the Bible said in Genesis 1:14-19, that He created the Sun, Moon, and Stars(vs 16) on the 4th day of Creation. on the 1st day of Creation God made time space and matter. His first act was to form space itself so? How could the god of mormonism be borninto the Universe that pre-existed him and he be its Creator? I don't see how they are the same God at all? Or how they both tie together. Malachi 3:6; says, for I am the Lord, I change not. The god of mormonism changes. I spoke to mormon elders and got them to agree due to I ask them a question? I ask is it true in mormon seminary doesn't it teach: as man is, god once was, and as god is, man may become. See, the difference. Malachi 3:6, says the changes not, but mormonism, god becomes a man. Also in Galatians 1:6-9 it says, But even if we or an angel from heaven preach another gospel let him be condemned......and I ask the question to the elders, didn't 2 angels preach another gospel to Joseph Smith? They agreed. They said, they didn't have an answer for that. I appreciated their honesty. What do you think?
it just proves that Mormons believe God was a man, and that man can become a God. they believe Jesus and Satan were brothers. they also believe God physically had sex with Mary. Mormons cannot answer questions about their religion without adding words to the Bible, to make it work in their favor.
Oh good Lord, Mormons do not believe God had sex with Mary! Any who do need to take a refresher course! Christ was conceived of the Spirit. As far as Christ and Satan being siblings...you left something out. Physically they could not be brothers, for Christ is the only-begotten son of the Father. But all spirits are the offspring of God and in that manner are we all brothers and sisters with Christ, even Lucifer. The apostle Paul wrote that we are all the offspring of God, and as such are spirit brothers and sisters. That is what we believe.
Read Acts7:55-56 and tell me what its mean to you? and also jenesis1: 26 God said, let us make man in our IMAGE, AFTER OUR LIKENESS." how can you describe this true scripture ??
John 4:24 says "God is a Spirit" and 2 Cor 3:17 says "the Lord is that Spirit". According to the Bible, God is a Spirit - he does not have a body of flesh and bones. When God said "let us make man in our Image" he meant with the same attributes or qualities possessed by God, such as love, thinking ability, a sense of justice and other godly qualities
I don’t understand why Joseph doesn’t have any descendants if he was married to so many other women? Or did he have children with his other wives? Do we know?
I have always wondered that also,. Of course the church says he was in celibacy marriages with everyone but Emma and that is why there are no other descendants of his multiple wives. I've never seen it addressed either.
What a fascinating interview. Logically laid out, flowing questions and well spoken on all accounts. So glad about your amazing surgeries. Best wishes to all.
Jeremy has been demonized in LDS circles and that's such a shame. Expected, but a shame nonetheless. By the way, nothing wrong with going to the Tanners' website- they got their stuff from the LDS church :)
When you mentioned your dads remarriage you stated he had 4 kids yet during the divorce you only mention 3. Can you clarify that? I find your research very interesting. Hope to hear your point of view on things that have been bothering me!
+Evan Cawley Starting at 6:15-7:15 during the divorce the bishop gave 2 sons to the father and 1 son to the mother. His father remarried and some how has 4 children... 8:05-8:20
A bit of constructive criticism, I wouldn't take the audience away with a video about cochlear implant... if I wasn't SUPER interested in his story, I would have left at this point. And I REALLY want people to stay engaged. Much love Jeremy and John!
..but at the same time I know why he wanted to explain why he is speaking a but funny, and abt the wires coming out of his head... :) but yes - he could have just told about it instead of the little video... :)
![9 Ex-Mormons share why they left the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints [EXPLICIT]](/img/n.gif)
This man changed our lives, first for the worst, then for the best. Thank you for being brave Jeremy, you saved a family.
He is such a sweet man. Sometimes members paint “anti-Mormons” as angry and antagonistic. He is just a sweet, lovely guy who was on an honest quest for truth. Wishing him love and joy. 💕
I agree. Listen to John. He’s the same. He wants nothing but the best for those who prosecuted him. He even says they are good men in a broken system ......Except the home teachers who spied on him.
I remember it was a really big thing about how angry and vengeful people who left the church were perceived to be.
Agreed
you've never actually talked to him have you? He can be sweet and lovely during an interview but the mask drops pretty quickly when you talk to him in person.
There are answers to all of his questions . All of them. But I would wonder if he would even listen to answers . Plus some of the things he says are not even true . For one why does his letter say there is a blood atonement?? And if he things that what exactly does he think it is ? There is no blood atonement . He just thinks there is because he has no idea what it is or what it means . He is so far off . But I would love him or anyone on here to explain what they think a blood atonement is . I think I know what they are talking about but first I would like to see what they think or feel it is . Also the air heads on here that day things about the temple like hand shakes . There are no hand shakes . These people are just nutty and full of air. I would love to see the response essays . That he feels did not answer him . Can you post them or put up how to see them . Thanks .
I am very grateful for the tremendous amount of work Jeremy Runnells has put into the CES letter. Anyone considering joining the faith should read it before they do. Any person that is currently a member of the church should read it.
Guess what?, he didn't write it on his own. He crowdsourced the thing on the exmormon subreddit. Guess what? he profits from it, a lot, so does Dehlin from this podcast. Guess, what?, he is lying when he says he wrote it as a seeker of truth in a faith crisis seeking answers to his questions. Jeremy announced in October 2012 the reddit world, that he had left the church and wanted to figure out how to keep his kids from being brainwashed by the Church. He and Dehlin make their living tearing down the church.
Anyone considering the things in the CES letter would do well to look up the evidence for the answers to the questions, rather than knee-jerk along with the author! Real, satisfying answers to those questions brings a life of joy!! Those who won't look honestly for the answers don't really want answers.
@@zubenelgenubi Just because I advocate for the CES letter doesn't mean I took it at the others word. I can tell that it is better researched and referenced than anything the church has written. I have also read the standard works, prayed, attended the temple, etc. I wanted to believe. I think you're the one that isn't allowing yourself to look honestly. You have no idea how infuriating it is to have someone like you assume that I didn't do diligent research and study. I probably know the doctrine better than you. Now your canned response is that I am one of "those that studied too much and forgot the simple truths". I've heard it all. Accept that not everyone will come to the same conclusion that your missionary/mom/bishop told you. The CES letter is being attacked because it's easy to digest, well researched/referenced, and it's exposing the scam that Mormonism is. CES letter is 100% accurate proven almost entirely by the churches own records.
I disagree. I (an ex Morm) will never advise my loved ones to read it unless they ask me about why I left the church which they never have and which they never will. Leaving the church …I’m incredibly grateful I escaped, but it’s not for me to decide if it would make them happy or not. I know that the “leaving” part for me was long (years) and painful. As Jeremy mentions, when you leave folks don’t say, “oh well thanks for your service! Hope you come visit! We loved having you!” Oh no no no. It is tears and sobbing; it is breaking mother’s heart; breaking up the family; it is quiet whispers; it is major social changes. It is a social upheaval of epic proportions.
If any of my family or friends had ever asked or if they do ever ask why I left the church I will share, but they never did and they never will… unless they’ve already decided the church isn’t for them. And yes! I actually have ONE cousin and ONE sibling who have also divorced the church!
My cousin called me to let me know the joyous news and, though we weren’t and aren’t close (geographically or emotionally) he told me it was a big comfort to him knowing his cousin had made the journey! We went out for drinks the weekend when the family was together for our grandmother’s funeral. I never told my Grammie I was an atheist or that I had officially taken my name and those of my children off of church records because she didn’t need to know and it would have just broken her heart as it did (and does every day) my mother’s. No reason to do that to my elderly Grammie.
My sister and I are close and she is also grateful to me and that I am here to help her through this journey. And she thinks that me being openly atheist has softened the blow when she officially rescinded her membership.
As for me, I am beyond grateful that I am not alone! Of ALL my dozens and dozens of relatives (both sides), cousins, siblings, in-laws, nieces, nephews I finally have TWO other non-Mormons in addition to my three children! I’m so happy to not be the “devastating lost soul” to be pitied and judged all on her own. 💕
@@zubenelgenubi are you denying the Joseph Smith was a polygamist?
I am leaving the church this very moment. Just started my journey last Sunday. It is the hardest thing I have ever done to tell my wife and bishop. I'm 35 and have been married for 12 years. I am also currently serving as the executive secretary. My bishop has been great so far and so has my wife.
Dustin M what made you leave? We recently left and so far it has been quiet but only because I basically had to alienate myself from LDS friends that were not respectful. I'm sad to lose friends but I also feel free from lies and anxiety.
@@natistotallyoutnumbered9558 yeah it's funny. They say that people should be respectful of their values when they're around them, but then they turn around and get salty at us for playing music that swears when to most of us, it's just a normal part of language. You don't want to hear it? Leave.
There are some Mormon friends I have that I genuinely respect, but there are a few that absolutely make me lose my shit.
Dustin M ........Embrace the freedom! Best wishes!
Give us an update. Did your wife divorce you?
Dustin I’m so glad you have found the truth and have the strength to live authenticity. It’s hard to stay once you know it’s not true. As a Catholic I find it so odd that you have to explain to your Bishop that your leaving. We just simply don’t turn up. We don’t get harassed for it or questioned over it. They don’t have our phone numbers or addresses. That part of LDS does seem cultish, as well as other things. I’m so glad your wife and Bishop have been good to you about it. You have to live honestly. God bless you and your family.
Wow! John you look so young here. Thank you for your years of work! You are appreciated ❤
Jeremy, You have helped so many people to escape this corruption. Thank You!!
Corruption when the bible testifies that the Church of Jesuschrist of latter day saints is true no other church has so much biblical clearance like this one
@@ardynleninramirezmadriz325 all myths. Time to grow up Peter Pan.
It took a lot of guts for Jeremy to be so strong. God bless him for trying to change and improve things, no matter the consequences. Inspiring person.
I like how he explains there's no such thing as a graceful exit. 41:38
Haha I was that weird psycho who poof left the church and was fine and left it alone.(but I was only 17) But now like 15 years later am like interested in what the actual history of the church is since I was involved with it for the first 17 years of my life. So happy there are so many resources now. Thanks for putting all of this together.
Lol me too..i was 15, born, raised and baptized into the church. I was only allowed to hangout with other mormons and went to church twice a week during that time. I think i was guided to be rebellious in the way i was and i believe that getting pregnant at 15 on my very first time, was intentional by God to bring in another soul and to give me an easy out of the church at the perfect time, because at 15 i knew enough about the church to understand, but didn't go far enough to let them bind ("seal") my soul, which i now believe is against God's true plan. We're already allllll connected and we all are already rejoined with family and God when we die, we don't need church for that. It's automatic thanks to jesus. The issue is reincarnation is real and the sealings the mormon church does are against God and against what our souls truly want. They're not supposed to be bound and suppressed from ever leaving. They're meant to be free to choose. The leaders aren't honest with the members about what effects the sealing rituals will truly have. They're leading you all into a forever prison, not paradise. I pray people learn and research before allowing these bindings to be put on their souls or deceased loves ones.. the spirits don't really get a choice as leaders claim, it's a prison eternity forced onto them and it's wrong and evil.
"I started having these feelings of betrayal"... same here.
This is very interesting to listen to. I'm still a member (edit: not anymore) and have been reading the CES letter. Seeing this interview you can see this guy is genuine, kind, and his attitude towards the church/mission is not really what I expected. He has a better attitude about his mission than I have about mine
@@isaacmathews4693 as you find more information it is normal to update, to revise and addend. Is the church changing information to manipulate or to reveal and repent for its sins?
Hi! Are you still a member of the church?
@@Mlum191 not so much anymore. Too many things I couldn't get past. I feel like my biggest problem was really that our main distinction as a church is supposed to be the guidance from modern prophets, and yet we've been behind the curve on things like racism, gays, missionary wellbeing, etc for a long time and still are behind. The historicity of the book of Mormon is also a big issue for me, among many other historical issues of the church.
I have basically just decided that I will try to live by good values according to my own conscience. If there's a god and he has problems with my choices then I will be accountable for them.
That's probably more info than you wanted but I don't know if you're struggling with a faith crisis or just curious about my status. It certainly is hard to shatter your worldview but I am adjusting
@@laconsuela69 thank you for sharing ❤️ wishing you all the best
you are the one that let the clouds of doubt come in to mind and fall into the waters of despairness
What a brave eloquent man. He has saved countless of people from the oppression of a racist and homophobic cult. I salute you Sir!
i've been in the church for 32 years. non active for about 17 of those. always felt that it wasnt true not sure why. then we reached the information age and everything my body and intuition was telling me is now confirmed. follow your intuition!
I left at 15 same reason didn't know why. Now thanks to the internet I knew I my gut was right. Good to know God's there even when the church is trying to rid him out of you
@@paulgregersen3570 there was already a church made called the constitution. I grew up in nz and they never taught us once about it. Good teachings. But it's not the true church ahaha
@@paulgregersen3570 don't be too naive. Can't preach free agency then practice control
I left the church back in 1979 while living in Boise, ID and attending the Institute. I only just heard about and read the letter a year ago when told about it by my youngest sister who had converted (our family in around 1974?), been excommunicated while she was in the 10th grade (THAT’s a story!) and rejoined the church when she was in her 40’s and then just left again a couple of years ago. When I read the letter I was so angry about all the poor people who have been lied to over the years and RELIEVED I had left the church before ever going through the trauma (it WOULD have been traumatic for me back then) of going through the temple. But the church left me with deep emotional scares even in the few years I had been a member and deeper insecurities that led me down an unhealthy path and eventually into an abusive relationship. I’m happy this man did the research he did and took the time to write such a well laid out discussion of his findings. Made more common sense than the church EVER did!
I can relate to Jeremy's faith to be healed. I was told repeatedly that if you had faith you could be healed. Who has more faith and sincere belief than a child? I had things I wished to be healed of and no matter how often, long, or intensely I prayed I never was. I started to realize as a kid it wasn't real. Most people do. It's the bluffing the church encourages that kept me going and I am sure many others. "The best way to get a testimony is to bear your testimony" In other words, tell everyone you know it's true and eventually you will start to believe it! Everyone is saying they know it's true when they have all the same doubts as me. And round and round it goes until you have been going to church for 20, 30, or 40 years and it has just been drilled into your head. By that time you have devoted so much time and money and sacrificed so much that not believing would be almost impossible.
"The best way to get a testimony is to bear your testimony" This is called collective autosuggestion😁
That the issue when you testify something is becuase you have a clear direct spritual sealing that is true but when you come up with people that go to the mission be in the temple cerimony and still have doubts you lied breaking one the ten commanments of God thou shall not bear false testimony if you still had dopubts dont bear it dont say it its dumb to render to peer pressure even in the The church of jesus christ of latter day saints giving false testimony to somethin you know its not true becuase you had no confirmation what so ever then you are faking it and that my friend makes you a deciever a liar and you will fall
Thank you both for your work, your grace, your honesty, your bravery, and for putting a voice to so many people who feel the same way.
That's insane. Yikes. How sad as kids.
The CES letter reminds me of Martin Luther pinning his 95 points to the Wittenberg Castle Church door.
Yep... Except that Martin Luther accidentally started a new and heretical sect without meaning to, whereas this guy just exposed the fallacy of a new and heretical sect. There is no "Runnulite" branch of Mormonism. He didn't start a new church, like Luther did... He's just telling the truth about a boring old American sex cult from the 1800's..
This is one of the most important men in American and religious history imo. He's literally like a modern Martin Luther
Thank you Jeremy, I got out 25 years ago; and am thankful that you had the courage to stand up to their tactics.
I wish I had gotten out 25 years ago! I was in for 40 years, and only figured out the truth five years ago. I had done very careful research, checking sources again and again. I shudder when I remember the times that I followed the Mormon "Spirit" in making important decisions, then crashed. I wish I could get those years back, now that I know the truth.
Gosh I feel like such a rookie. I left last March after the SEC ruling against the church. I could have saved so much tithing money over the years for my struggling family if I had found it when you did.
First time seeing and learning what/ who Jeremy Renells is. I was told he was a liar and to not listen to anything he says. HE is sincere and humble. This has been empowering. DEC 10th, 2023 was my last day to consider myself LDS.
Oh, and also when I heard Mr. Runnells talking about how his family came across the prairie and all that, it reminded me of my sister who is LDS faithful, and how people in her ward look down on her because she comes from a jack-Mormon family. That infuriates me that people would think their ancestors' doings make them superior. This illustrates the human aspect of this whole church.
Lisa Colorado “pure blood” vs “mud blood.” And you’re right, it’s disgusting!
The church is full of ego. We're all connected, all one, all of God's source energy. Being "sealed" isn't necessary because we're ALREADY connected and cant be separated. Theres no hell or separated heavens. We're all one and can go where we please, but being sealed BINDS YOUR SOUL IN A PRISON for eternity when our souls are meant to be free and reincarnate when we want. Even chris langan, the 200 IQ quantum physicist believes this based on science. Binding in life, like a marriage til death is fine, but binding a soul for eternity TRAPS IT, not in a paradise. What they're doing is manipulative and evil. I've even had visions and dreams from those who've been sealed contacting me, its terrible and scary they're doing this to people. I believe the reason is very dark. Get out while you can. The leaders seek control and power at the expense of members. And I'm considered a member still, although I'm inactive. They aren't taught the truth, and if they try to look for it, they're attacked or gaslighted into not researching the reasons for bindings and such. Very Masonic and occult, and although i don't believe occult is evil, it depends how its used. They're not using it for good. Thus the secrecy
This very notion shows the flaw in the church
@@RoanPretorius-de7xv To me, that's just a human trait. Groups of people want to make themselves feel superior. It is a flawed church, though.
So, this is the famous Jeremy Runnells. Never imagined him look like this. Good stuff, man.
Thank you for opening my eyes.
They say when you leave the church you have lost your testimony...when you loose something you did not mean to part with it.. leaving the church is because you have dropped your testimony. A wieght you Choose not carry anymore.
The whole testimony thing is brainwashing. They even use it against you when you leave. The fact that after decades in the church you still have to hear ‘this church is true’ just erks me! It should be about God first. How many times must you hear your church is true? No other church goes on and on about it, it’s brainwashing. You should there to learn about God and pray to him. Not be brainwashed and hear everyone’s testimonies. I don’t want to hear what man says. I want to hear God’s word.
Wow! Jeremy and I must have grown up in the same stake in San Diego. Lance B Wickman was my stake President too! Thank you for the work you did to help me wake up from my cultish stupor.
I'm an ex-mo and I can hardly understand why I thought the way I did from birth to 20 years old. The only way I can explain it is that I was brainwashed. I understand that now. I quietly walked away from the church. Due to life events, I've moved twice and when I got married, I changed my name. I've never had the church bother me/find me. My Dad says they knocked on his door to check on me but I had already moved away and a couple years had passed. He said they had heard I "just moved in" which makes no sense. 5 years have passed since I walked away and I'm in a TH-cam rabbit hole simply because I came across a random video called "why I left the lds church". I had reasons for leaving and I wondered if their reasons echoed mine. So far, I haven't found anyone with the same reasons as me. There's plenty of reasons to leave. PLENTY! (Most people seem to be leaving because of how sketchy the history of the church is.) But my reasons were how Singles Ward works. How creepy it is. How it doesn't make since why God is the way they explain. I believe in God and He is very different from the way Mormonism teaches (in my opinion). I'm never going back. I never want to join another cult. I have a much happier life.
I go by the New Testament & Jesus as our savior. I loved his teachings, his example, who he was. I love him & God as Jesus honored & described him. Jesus was perfect & if any church authority, even a prophet, contradicts what He taught, I go with WWJD. Prophets are human & have flaws & biases. The LDS church coming up with CTR, I guess just to be different, is very subjective. Jesus' example is not!
@@michelemiller3798 Are you aware of all the harm the LDS church has caused?
I am not Mormon, but seems to me if I had given 10 percent of my income over the years, to support such an organization that perpetuates what I would now realize as a fraud, I would be hiring an attorney, and suing to get my tithe back.
There actually are several lawsuits pending against the church for just what you said.
I believe the fleeced, flock (cult) members sign an (acknowledgement) statement when they pay that they are paying of their own free will, under no coercion, and understand that the Church (cult) will use the $$ however it chooses. If this is true, I imagine it is/was the Cult's attempt to protect itself from litigation.
I found the letter website four days ago. It was Saturday Dec 14, 2019. I think I'm done with church and it hurts. I'm going to tell my wife and tear up my recommend this week so maybe I can sleep at night again
Give us an update. Is your wife going to divorce you?
@@DeRothschild So far--No. I told her two Sundays ago and now some days are really hard while others are just medium hard. Last night she was talking about the 12th article of faith and how we must follow our nation's laws. I piped up, "Joseph didn't follow the laws of the nation!" She didn't appreciate it. I could tell she was thinking about leaving but I don't think she will at this point. I suppose I'll know better in a few months
You're throwing away your temple blessings all over a mess of pottage, this is ridiculous.
@@germanslice ridiculous is giving your wife or 15 year old daughter to a guy because he heard a voice in his head that said you had to do it. If a prophet tried to take my wife or daughter we'd be down to 14 instead of 15
@@billiondollardan You don't seem to understand that back in those days it was not uncommon for some girls of 15-18 years to marry. For my great great great grandmother married when she was only 15 years of age to her husband of 21 years.. But if you're gonna believe this clown with his CES letter who only has a pre school education on God then that's your loss. I don't believe the guy and his trash letter hes published because I have more KNOWLEDGE than he has about God so I'm not deceived by his cunning arguments..
very moving testimony. a very humble man and he did a good decision leaving the mormon cult.
That the issue when you testify something is becuase you have a clear direct spritual sealing that is true but when you come up with people that go to the mission be in the temple cerimony and still have doubts you lied breaking one the ten commanments of God thou shall not bear false testimony if you still had dopubts dont bear it dont say it its dumb to render to peer pressure even in the The church of jesus christ of latter day saints giving false testimony to somethin you know its not true becuase you had no confirmation what so ever then you are faking it and that my friend makes you a deciever a liar and you will fall
What an absolute mad lad... thank you so much for your work...
From 37:50... this gentleman has it right... Mormon Stories Podcast is an arena for free discussion among people of goodwill, and I have yet to encounter here the nastiness that can prevail on other deconstruction/deprogramming sites. This is why I come here time and again! We're all adults here, we're friends, and we can be kind! Thank you for this venue.
As a non Mormon who grew up in Utah I was aware of the true church history for years including information on the CES letters.
Because the LDS faith is the predominate faith in Utah most of my friends growing up and as adults have been of the faith.
Many would confide in me things they would never tell a fellow Mormon out of fear of the price they would pay beyond excommunication such as loss of job if the employer was of the Mormon faith and divorce from wife along with being shunned by fellow Mormons.
To those reading this who have never lived in Utah and don't know much about the Mormon faith know this ..
The Mormon faith is just not a religion but a controlling culture where members watch, spy and report on each other much like communism.
In the past church leaders were successful at hiding true church history using this method of intimidation and isolation of their people from "Gentiles " a name Mormons give to non Mormons but with the advent of the internet many of their younger adherents to the faith are leaving after finding the true church history online.
Yes it's bad...they exhile u if not mormon in Scary ways
May I point out that this culture of spying on each other to make sure everyone conforms to the ideology is not a communism thing but an authoritarian/dictatorship thing. The fascists did it as well, the americans did it a lot during their communist witch hunts, and just about all cults regardless of political alignment do it.
Jeremy's story, brilliantly told, illustrates the profound loss and grief--and trauma--involved in the leaving process. It's like an amputation. You learn to cope, but it's oh, so different. It's a divorce and with divorce, its tentacles reach into so many different aspects of so very many lives; even the family dog is depressed/traumatized. I was a "cradle catholic," the equal to the TBM. I can really identify, as my family is still soooo catholic. I really understand your feelings of loss, grief, anger, betrayal--there are hundreds of feelings, the trauma is so significant. When Shakespeare wrote, "To thine own self be true." he forgot to say how traumatic this experience is. We're either true to ourselves or true to the lie...wish it could be somewhere in the middle...
Why is everyone leaving for, I been in the church for 28 years, you guys are pathetic who just want to knee jerk at the first shock list you come across and get up and leave and cast away your eternal blessings. Where was your testimonies of the Atonement?....Did you have any testimony at all?
@@germanslice l have plenty of faith in the true God of the Holy Bible which l have realized is NOT the false god of the King Follet Discourse that Joseph Smith taught and the progression to godhood that Mormonism teaches in which man progresses to become a god and god has once been a man. This is a fantasy that came out of Joseph Smith's head. You assume that when people leave the Mormon church they lose their eternal blessings. You are in a false pagan religion based on Freemasonic Luciferian concepts. You cannot be saved by the false gods or the temple ordinances that the Mormon church offers. Only the True Christ who is The Jesus of Nazareth of the Historical Holy
Bible , the real one can save you. Please open your mind and research. "Search all things and hold fast to that which is good"
The truth cannot be harmed by inspection. It shines brightly. The lies crumble.
May God bless you.
The lies and the damage the Mormon church dors to families and individuals is huge. I am so much happier now that I have left. Thanks for all your help in my own story Jeremy and John
Thank you, I left the church nine and half months ago and found the real Christ, I am free, there are no words to describe it. If you are a Mormon please read 1st John, and the new testament, and ponder it. it will change you!!
Hallelujah!!!
THE GUY WHO WROTE THE CES LETTER WAS JUST A REGULAR PERSON! I’ve been listening to mormon stories for about 2 years? I’m a never mo and never really looked back at old episodes unless they are suggested to me. Well I am shocked! I can’t believe the church ignored him. They definitely know it’s not real. Other wise the people in charge would have said more.
And I bet now the church sure wishes they had answered his questions. He's become a wrecking ball to the church. Membership is way down.
This young man has given me clarity. I'm 7th generation Mormon on both sides but I'm at least 1 generation older I left the church in 1978 but was never "angry" ex Mormon I left SLC in late 78 ( like new years 78-79 🤣) lived in the south from 79 -now pretty much I went back for almost a year (09) helped my dad graduate hospice I was never unhappy with the church until my mother's cousin (Dallon Oaks) spoke at her funeral. When the overflow was full we all went outside to transport her to the cemetary everyone was flipping their smart phones to make sure they got his "talk" on tape nobody even knew who I was??? Sad 😥
It sounds like people went just to hear Oaks speak, because he's a Mormon celebrity.
Did he talk about your mother or did it turn into a church conference talk about a different subject (other than your mom). Did he bare his testimony at the end?
It's so hard losing a parent, I think I'd be very upset if the funeral turned into something about someone else.
As a non-Mormon, I found this fascinating. Jeremy's pain and struggle is so authentic. A few years ago I read Under the Banner of Heaven and wondered how ANYONE could believe this stuff. Jeremy has made me understand, at least to a much greater degree. My question to former Mormons is this: Do you think the most senior members of your church believe the teachings and church approved history wholeheartedly or are they knowingly misguiding others because it benefits them it some way... (e.g. financially, community status, etc.) After reading Going Clear, I didn't think for a second David Miscavige believes the teachings of Scientology. But I can't tell what Jeremy's thoughts are on this point. I have only listened to the first of the 3 parts so maybe he addresses it later. I feel badly for Mormons who, after going through an honest assessment of what they are being taught can no longer buy it. They lose a lifelong belief system they have outgrown but sadly seem to lose family and friends who they may need more than ever. That's kind of suckie.
I genuinely don't believe Thomas S Monson and other heads of the church believe or fully follow the gospel they preach at all. It's always a gut feeling I had when I watched them talk. Especially Henry B Eyring and his crocodile tears, he always puts on the theatrics for conference.
Ok - I'll bite. YES - I believe that the most senior members of my Church believe the teachings and history wholeheartedly, including the difficult and tough parts of that history.
If you look at their career paths, most of them would be more successful financially outside of the Church (do the research, look at their career paths), so why stay inside?
@@bmiller9456 Power
Good question! After much thought, I have made up my mind on that question... No. I don't believe that they believe in it.
People only hide things that could potentially incriminate them if found. If you actually believe this is the one true gospel, then you should also have faith in it's ability to withstand the issues that lie within it's history... Obviously they don't because in the 20 years I attended church, seminary, Lds camps, etc. I was never taught about any of the history issues I know about today... Because it was being deliberately withheld from me.
It was never about the issues for me as much as it was about the church hiding them from me...
Just sayin...
If you believe it's TRUE, despite it's history issues, then trust in it enough to be honest and TRUE to the people you preach it to!
I didn't want to lose my faith!! I would've rectified almost any wrong-doing in the church's past in order to keep my faith intact... But when you realize that alot of things have been kept from you, and hidden away, you really can't ignore it... It becomes so obvious that you would have to be completely out of your mind to trust someone who's been hiding things from you for so long. It wasn't even as if I had a choice anymore... I couldn't trust them anymore... Unfortunately.
So now I am somewhat lost in my beliefs which sucks in and of itself... But also, I have been ostrisized by friends and family... because, as I see it, I couldn't supress common sense anymore! I get left on my own to contantly doubt my own integrity and righteousness because I have been brainwashed to believe that members who leave are bad people and can't quite get rid of that particular belief. So to agree with your final sentence... It does, indeed, REALLY suck!!
Personally, I think there are some that are trying to hide their vices behind "righteousness".
It's also a super steady, super easy form of income.
But I definitely think there are some that genuinely believe what they preach. The prophets might honestly think that the dreams and feelings they have are guided by God, but don't realize it's just their subconscious.
Let the truth shine no matter where it leads
2024…. My husband is blind and deaf. He’s had a couple blessings. He was told once when he worked in the temple that he be able to see what he needed to see and hear what he needed to hear. That sort of happened. But his blindness and deafness progressed. When we left the church ( still deconstructing) my husband (with my Lions Club and doing eye screenings) teaching Kindergarteners to respect the cane. We are glad he wasn’t healed.
What makes me most angry is the covering up of blood oaths in the temple. The reminants are still there they just don't go through the motions of slicing your throat and stomach. When the thumb is extended the still represents a knife or a blade. I would never take my kids to the temple and makes those gestures with them 🤬🤯😡🤢 The LDS church fits the definition of a cult in every way.
What a remarkable person!
I watched all three videos going from the 3rd to the 2nd to the 1st and really find Jeremy's quest for plain truth about whether mormonism is true or not quite impressive. To me the three videos is one of the best mormon stories i've seen !
Way to go John and Jeremy! I also like the fingerpicking guitar !
Best wishes and support to this young man - seek ye first the kingdom of God!
Truth is not harmful or scary or dangerous. Those qualities belong to falsehood. I read that in David R. Hawkin's books. Probably the scariest thing for me, having left the Church, was that if you deny the Holy Spirit you are doomed. For me, what I identified as an experience of the Holy Spirit was basically getting a sales job that I ought to do what the Elders were saying. I still feel frightened by the evil spirit of that deep-level bit of coercion. I have faith now that what's true can't be tarnished and that only God knows who and what is true. Meanwhile, people's own way of denying the truth about themselves, and instead living life completely according to how they'd like to present themselves, goes on. When we begin to differentiate ourselves from our borrowed self-images, we evolve.
+Lisa Colorado The Holy spirit is not tied to only one spesific church. In fact the Greek word translated to "church" means "the whole body of Christian believers."
sending love and compassion to you, Jeremy. God loves you! And I admire and appreciate you.
I don't understand why complicated analysis of Mormon teachings is needed to undermine your "testimony." For me it was common sense. The fact that the doctrine changed over time contradicted the story of the founding. If God restored the "one true church" to Joseph Smith, why did it change again and again on Polygamy? Why did it change again and again on the "black curse.?" Does God change his mind that often? The simplest answer that explains things is usually the right answer. In this case, the simplest answer is that Joseph Smith made it all up, and like many cult leaders, used his influence to gain power, control, and sex. Fairly common actually.
Reading some of these comments, and it's frankly terrifying. It's terrifying, the tall tales that people will believe. It's terrifying that cults can exist, and thrive, off of the desperation of humans need for meaning. It's terrifying that so many are willful slaves to the oldest system of control. And so I wonder, why? We, each of us, has so much potential within us, and yet some would sacrifice their entire being to a set of fairy tales. We are our own gods. It is by our hands that the future is made. Be free.
In 1997 I wrote a letter asking a few of these questions to F.a.r.m.s.
I did get an answer... it was that I should beg God for forgiveness for having questions in the first place.
That's hilarious but also crazy
The trauma factor is real some truly don't nor will ever understand this effect on ur life .Thank you so very much for this video I can't say enough 🙏
I very much resonate with this man, as I had a similar experience but long before his. My letter went to the first presidency during a very hard time in my life when my mother was dying of breast cancer. and I very much wished to communicate with my mother in heaven. This opened a whole can of worms with my bishop who was unable to answer any of these difficult concerns for me, stake president who was also a sitting state senator wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole, so I wrote a letter to the general presidency. What a crazy life I had in store for me!
As a Biblical Christians I invite criticism. I don’t want a faith that cannot stand up to scrutiny.
You understand that much of the world puts the New Testament in the same category as the Book of Mormon, right?
@@lynnefox4892, the world rejects the Bible because they reject the Gospel. But you don’t put the Book of Mormon and the Bible in the same category and neither do I. You believe in the Book of Mormon because you have been taught that you will be on the losing side if you don’t. I believe in the Bible because the evidence is that it is true.
What Jeremy did was absolutely brilliant. I saw the CES letter early, i think, and sent several copies out; one, I think was to Mormon Think, My laptop at that time stopped working last year. just went "click" and was gone....and my access too. As I'm retired the money to get the hard drive downloaded is nil, but, I know I can still see it other places, and have. I admire Jeremy immensely. Wish him the best life possible. Sadly he will never know how many lives he will make better......but it will be at least tens of thousands.
Theres a free pdf online if you want to get a copy
Thank you so very much❤!
So this is the guy? What a great guest to have back then omg... 👏
Good interview. You can understand his sincerity. I’m glad for the points he raised...causes us all to think more deeply about our faith. I don’t know everything but I do believe in Christ. That’s my anchor when other things are uncertain. Maybe one day we will have all the answers but some things have to be taken on faith for now. I appreciate all the research people do and share.
God bless your journey.
a small suggestion, on my personal journey i researched if the bible was legit, i satisfied myself it is the only thing legit,, my small suggestion is to read the whole bible, but start with the new testament, and after my research the one lds got right is the king james is the most literal translation we have in english, ymmv,, Jesus bless you and yours
"They leave the church but can't leave it alone" is what is used to keep you silent. Sadly, those who try to keep others silent are the ones who cause the upset, anger, and pain.
I think it's interesting that John asks if he remembers the first time he read about polyandry, because I totally remember. I was in the BYU bookstore. Yeah, that shook me pretty hard.
+Severian Wintermute
polyandry is one of my favorite examples of how poorly researched anti-mormon claims are and the
double-standard they apply to evidence. The majority of their "evidence" for polyandry is in the form of journal entries and
personal statements made by people. Now, are journal entries and personal statements PROOF? Because if so then we must accept that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God who performed many miracles including healing people because
there are many accounts of him doing so in people's journals and personal statements. But anti-mormons want to have their cake and eat it too. If someone writes in their journal that they were sealed to Joseph Smith then that's "proof" to them that it happened but if the same person testified that Joseph was a prophet and healed a lame woman so that she could walk, well, that's just a story.
And there's plenty of evidence they just ignore or lie about. If polyandry was actually happening then why is there no real evidence to support it? If my wife married another man, I'd divorce her, plain and simple. None of these women had that happen. No children were born to them with Joseph even slightly claimed as the father, not a single mention of this. So as is the case with pretty much all anti-mormon claims this is a subject that is heavy on accusations but so very very light on actual evidence to support it and contradicting a lot of the evidence we do have.
P.S. the best is when they try to use "In Lonesome Silence" to support their claims as that is the most poorly researched book I have ever seen in my life. It's a perfect example of anti-mormon books that just quote other anti-mormon books as their source and those books are quoting other anti-mormon and it turns out to all be a house of cards with no evidence at the bottom beyond some journal entries (which we've already discussed the validity of.)
+Andrew Conor You probably don't realize that LDS.org has acknowledged Joseph's polyandry. You need to read the essays buddy. DnC states that polygamy is only commanded in order to produce offspring, if Joseph did not produce offspring with his wives then he was breaking the very law of polygamy. The sealing power wasn't even restored when he was already practicing and he married 14 year olds AND sisters AND Mother and Daughter, ALL of which are against the laws of polygamy. Either way, book of Abraham, and how about Josephs own Egyptian alphabet that's complete nonsense?
+Andrew Conor you talk big but when your challenged... Crickets... Lets see your proof. Oh wait you have non just the pure bs the Mormon leaders spoon feed you.
+Andrew Conor If you were in a religious cult and the leader married your wife, you would do absolutely nothing about it.
AJ Young I'd reply if there was any need to. No one has said anything to contradict what I said. The church and/or LDS.org acknowledging polyandry provides zero evidence of anything other than showing that the LDS church appears to believe it. That's not evidence that it happened.
On the contrary you guys have done a lovely job of demonstrating what I said: that anti-Mormons are full of double standards. You all want to say the church lies and doesn't know it's own history and blah blah blah but the second it says something you agree on you suddenly want us to take the church's statement on the subject to be an ironclad fact. Also hilarious to see you guys agreeing with one sentence from the essays and then ignoring the rest of the essay.
Mormons will hear this interview and say, "Your hearing has been restored via the implant!" I'm sure you have heard that. 😁 Mormons are definitely really good at "the glass is half full" perspectives. I think that becomes a necessity the longer you are in the church!
As a Deaf person, that absolutely *is* a disgusting, bigoted cliche ("you MUST be healed!") that we get.
Constantly.
And... so is "perform some ASL for me", which is also a rather disgusting request.
Very exploitation based.
Please, don't do that, it's GROSS.
The lives of disabled/sick persons ***are not a performance for the amusement/curiosity of the abled***.
A *lot* of this video is... deeply problematic/insulting/degrading/performative/ableist.
Please, stop.
The reality is CIs actually destroy part of the cochlea. Any residual hearing is destroyed to implant CIs.
CI signal does not "restore" hearing, it changes sound to machine impulses that have to be learned again.
You never again hear as typical folks do, and CIs have a *lot* of issues.
But they are often advertised/marketed as a "solution" by lazy, bigoted communities that are unwilling to change or learn in order to support Deaf persons and Deaf culture.
Importantly - CIs are *not* viewed positively by many Deaf communities. Not at ALL.
Being "Deaf", capital D, is a *culture*. A language, history, community, with traditions, norms, needs.
Being "hard of hearing" is simply a statement of ability.
I get why *he* got a CI (immersed in a oppressive, conformist, not supportive/unwilling to learn ASL community) but CIs are *not* a universal "solution" for Deaf folks.
Far from it.
And they are NEVER "healing".
But they sure are convenient for the able-bodied.
I had a mountain of bigoted cliches about "gawd" supposedly "helping me" or "healing me" tossed on me as a hearing/then suddenly Deaf child.
I was screeched at that I was being "healed" to erase neglect and harm.
To FORCE me to stop asking for/needing help.
All before I was SIX YEARS OLD.
I heard it when using a terrible bulky FM system in school - that stayed at the school, and was, frankly, a POS.
I heard it when my school care MUCH more than the churches or my family.
...unless a token "crippled kid" was needed to parade around, to increase tithes at Christmas.
I was hospitalized every 2-3 months for DECADES, and having that erased, minimized, sneered at for the convenience and comfort of those who harmed me was not "healing".
I was a profoundly neglected, abused kid. The family scapegoat. The target. The "b*stard".
Yet I was constantly TOLD I was supposedly "helped" by a "loving" "gawd" and "father".
Except "he" was a cruel, abusive monster who harmed an innocent child every day, from infancy, for simply BEING.
And all that garbage came spewing out of the mouths of the supposedly "devout", both Catholics & Mormons.
My hearing loss (65dB bilaterally, from a Mumps infection) was never "fixed" by "gawd" or anyone else... it was simply ignored/neglected.
Rejected.
Inconvenient.
Religious bigots couldn't "deal", with the cognitive dissonance/doubts my mere existence brought up (a "good kid" who was "punished" with disability and severe illness and who was neglected and abused).
THey all LET IT HAPPEN.
They all WANTED me harmed.
Gosh, how could that be?!?
There were, still are, SO MANY OF US. Millions of kids are deliberately, viciously harmed, silenced, killed.
And NOBODY lifts a FINGER.
Nobody cares, including the "devout", and including some ridiculous fairytale "father", that only seemed to care about the already spoiled rotten and lucky.
I dared to be conceived "too early". How embarrassing.
How inconvenient.
How dare I.
They are revealed, and they RESENT being revealed.
Sooooo "pro life" of them to resent and neglect and harm the results of THEIR evil choices, laziness, neglect and selfishness. 🙄🤮💩
That's the religious for you. 🤷
So disgustingly true. Or have the faith not to be healed (Bednar). 🤮
Thank you. Watching from Alaska.
After all the years of watching I have been curious about the CES letter that is referred to but have never watched an explanation of what it is.
This is evidence of a Loving God to give to us all the intellectual innocence of a Jeremy Runnells to record the honest questions of one seeking to know the Truth. The truth will set you free
I can understand Jeremy's frustration at 41:30. I was never told about a seer stone in a top hat. The narrative we were told in the 1990s was the two stones were used with the plates in front of Joseph Smith. When it comes to much church history, there is also a lot of gaslighting.
I wrote a "CES Letter" but sent it to the First Presidency. They replied (kind and sincere) to my Bishop requesting that both he AND the stake president meet with me to discuss each point. We did over a period of several months.
How did that end up?
@@mormonstories I did leave the church and joined a similar denomination with a similar leader from the similar time of Joseph Smith, but being who I was and the number of people I had baptized locally or had been involved with in their conversion had having completed 6 stake missions, having taught early morning seminary for several stints having taught institute at the college level, in fact one of the fair staff members at least at one time had been one of my seminary students, anyway with that background the church formally asked me to not publish my letter and not to publicly speak out against the church and I really haven't done so. This really hurt my parents who stayed faithful to the church until their deaths a few years ago, and I certainly and I know you do as well understand why the bushman's and others stay loyal and faithful to the church especially at their age because it's their whole life and the church was my whole life ...back in 1995 I ran an LDS apologetic website, which can still be found if you search my name and the word prodigy... I sent my letter to the first presidency 18 years ago and again left the church 17 years ago but I still dream of my Mormon congregations , I still dream of those I baptized , I still dream of those that I took to the temple for the first time and it's dang difficult....
Andrew Conor, I get that you believe in the church whole heartedly and that's great, but being condescending and insulting doesn't make you right or smart. if you read the responses to FAIR Mormons debunking on the CES website you'll see almost none of their arguments hold any water. otherwise why would they have changed or removed them after Jeremy responded to them? I tried to look up their responses on what I felt were the key issues and found only dead links. I The church has lied to me long enough and FAIR is just carrying on the tradition. believe what you want to but don't judge people from your pedestal. it doesn't make the church look correct or bring anyone back to the "fold". The only reason you should be arguing with someone on here is because you have a genuine desire to see them come back to Christ. insulting people doesn't accomplish that.
sorry there Harvest, didn't see your comment since you didn't reply to me directly. Being right and being smart is what makes me right and smart. I'm afraid that one of my biggest flaws is I have a hard time not pointing out when someone is being stupid. I don't respond to this weak crap to prove people like you wrong, I respond so that other people like me know they're not alone and that if they have questions the real answers are out there. FAIR and many individuals have responded to the CES letter and as Jeremy revises and redoes it they respond to his revisions too. It's not hard to look up his claims and start poking holes in them yourself. It's just a matter of whether or not you WANT to believe there's all these flaws with the gospel and are looking for an excuse to leave. There's a reason that we have three different anti-Christs in the Book of Mormon including one who flat admits he knew he was wrong and was following Satan but liked the popularity it was giving him so he kept doing it. I'm quite certain that plenty of anti-mormons know very well that they're fighting against God and just keep doing it for a variety of reasons. And I just don't have the self-control not to call them idiots when they do it.
@test I'm quite sure you're correct. Of course, our perfect example, Jesus Christ, referred to people as Fools several times as well as hypocrites and other things. So... I don't think God condemns people for calling a spade a spade.
@test I am indeed expressing my opinion here. You are correct. I'm sorry if you think I'm being sarcastic, I'm not sure why you think that since you don't know me very well but you can make whatever assumptions you like about me, my motives, intents, and whether I'm being sarcastic. You're probably wrong but that's okay.
thanks for sharing! had no idea this existed...
Awesome video!
Great Interview and great letter (CES). Thanks (both of you) for your personal integrity.
OMG...Jeremy grew up in the same area(s) I did, and was even in the La Mirada 2nd ward. The bishop he speaks of, is Sol Kawekane.
Wouldn't be something, if my childhood ward was the source of Mormonism's downfall.
THAT WOULD BE ALL KINDS OF AWESOME.
God speed in your quest, Jeremy. Burn it down.
We are so proud of you
Where it all started! For me at least... these 2 are the GOATs
The Church talks soooooo much sh** about us when we divorce it. But then they wonder why we are so traumatized when we leave. I love how Jeremy contrasts leaving the church to leaving a mission or a friend’s house or a group that wishes you well “thank you for your service, we wish you the best!”
There’s nothing new about these questions, came across them on my mission 30 years ago and they weren’t new then
I just turned on my Mormon blinders and kept on my merry way
My all time favorite MS interview. Much respect gentlemen.
10 years ago! 😮 I discovered the CES letter during Covid, had already left church but it was instrumental in confiming my suspicions
I love this man. South Bronx was my neighborhood! He wasn’t afraid at all, on his errand from God. Lol. He was right.
A Bishop decided custody? What court would agree to let a Bishop decide that? Even if he was qualified to do so there are some obvious conflicts there which would be totally unprofessional. There has to be more to that story.
This man seems sincere and gentle, kind. I hope he has a life full of love, joy and happiness. He deserves it.
Awww young John!!
Just a regular, nice guy 😊
Can someone explain what LDS means by having a "testimony"?
It's a statement about your belief in the church. The definition in other contexts if pretty similar
It describes a sort of self hypnosis where they convince themselves that they KNOW that the Lds church is the one true church and religion upon the face of the earth.
Love both you guys. So amazed by both of you.
Ike Ellis thank you
It would be amazing if some day someone can translate this to other languages, like I wish I could share this with my familiy that only speaks spanish.
Deepl.com. Their translator is really good. You'd have to go through find comb it, but, for the most part, it's spot on.
@@sasmills thank you
Good news, there is a spanish translation of the CES letter on the CES letter website
THIS SERIES IS MY ALL TIME FAVORITE MORMAN STORIES SO FAR. THIS WILL BE VERY HARD TO BEAT. ❤️❤️
Why does the church have to be true or false? I believe (in my case) I've moved on from the church my parents gave me a good base I know there is ONE God & He had ONE Son Jesus Christ. The church helps guide so many people who never knew of Jesus has been taught by missionaries. My dad was a missionary in Uruguay & I'm proud of him for both of his missions he later (1997-99) went to Bolivia with my mom it changed my mother I loved the woman who returned!!
I knew I could find the information I was searching for here. As a never Mormon, I’ve been reading and watching videos to learn what I can re: the roots of the LDS faith and searching for answers as to why LDS members believe what they do, and move the way they do. I have LDS family members & friends -all converts to LDS and have watched them slowly pull away from us and I needed answers. I kept hearing about the CES letter & as a new sub to your channel I thought I would come here and simply typed my question into the search bar on TH-cam next to Mormon Stories and boom 💥, what I was looking for. Thank you 🙏🏼
"Typed in Joseph Smith's polygamy." I did that. It was the spark that led me out. Not being able to hide info anymore by anything but admonition isn't working the church.
i love how they still try to defend pedophilia and polygamy aswell, its crazy, sucks that im the only one that has really put his mind out for this, the rest of my family truly believe this is the true church.
Where can we read his Reddit o& Facebook response letter? @39:00
It would be useful for you to indicate, in the titles, the number of parts to this interview. For example, indicate "Pt 1/3", for this video.
What book? @31:51 ? TIA Repstone Rolling???
What would b the best books to read in relation to this episode. Mr. Runnels is such a kind, soft spoken man.
It's it interesting that Mormon testimonies always start with and emphasize the BoM, Broseph (Brother Joseph), and then tac on Christ at the end?
Because God nor Jesus comes first, really They believe they wouldn't have the Truth without JS Catholics put Mary above Christ with what they believe is the Truth
@@paularoberts866 that's sad.. God is always first 🙏 anything less is idolatry
Where can I find the CES letter?
I have a question? The LDS says, "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's (Doctrines & Covenants 130: 22; a process of "eternal progression" by which a man becomes a god. But, in the Bible Is. 43:10; You are my witnesses, declares the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. "Before Me no god was formed, nor will there be one after Me....Don't you see 2 different God's. Mormon god was a man with parents then he became a god. Then there is the God of the Bible is Spirit and was never a man (Numbers 23:19); God is not man, nor a son of a man. See 2 different gods. Is. 44:6; I am the First, and I am the Last; and beside Me their is no God. Is. 44:8; God says, Is there a God beside Me? Yea, there is no God; I know not any. The God of the Bible said in Genesis 1:14-19, that He created the Sun, Moon, and Stars(vs 16) on the 4th day of Creation. on the 1st day of Creation God made time space and matter. His first act was to form space itself so? How could the god of mormonism be borninto the Universe that pre-existed him and he be its Creator? I don't see how they are the same God at all? Or how they both tie together. Malachi 3:6; says, for I am the Lord, I change not. The god of mormonism changes. I spoke to mormon elders and got them to agree due to I ask them a question? I ask is it true in mormon seminary doesn't it teach: as man is, god once was, and as god is, man may become. See, the difference. Malachi 3:6, says the changes not, but mormonism, god becomes a man. Also in Galatians 1:6-9 it says, But even if we or an angel from heaven preach another gospel let him be condemned......and I ask the question to the elders, didn't 2 angels preach another gospel to Joseph Smith? They agreed. They said, they didn't have an answer for that. I appreciated their honesty. What do you think?
it just proves that Mormons believe God was a man, and that man can become a God. they believe Jesus and Satan were brothers. they also believe God physically had sex with Mary. Mormons cannot answer questions about their religion without adding words to the Bible, to make it work in their favor.
learn your history, no sources are Mormon.
Oh good Lord, Mormons do not believe God had sex with Mary! Any who do need to take a refresher course! Christ was conceived of the Spirit. As far as Christ and Satan being siblings...you left something out. Physically they could not be brothers, for Christ is the only-begotten son of the Father. But all spirits are the offspring of God and in that manner are we all brothers and sisters with Christ, even Lucifer. The apostle Paul wrote that we are all the offspring of God, and as such are spirit brothers and sisters. That is what we believe.
Read Acts7:55-56 and tell me what its mean to you? and also jenesis1: 26 God said, let us make man in our IMAGE, AFTER OUR LIKENESS." how can you describe this true scripture ??
John 4:24 says "God is a Spirit" and 2 Cor 3:17 says "the Lord is that Spirit". According to the Bible, God is a Spirit - he does not have a body of flesh and bones. When God said "let us make man in our Image" he meant with the same attributes or qualities possessed by God, such as love, thinking ability, a sense of justice and other godly qualities
“Fair made things worse” @34:34 What does that mean? TIA
Faithful Answers, Informed Response. A site that attempts to give thoughtful answers to questions from struggling members.
I don’t understand why Joseph doesn’t have any descendants if he was married to so many other women? Or did he have children with his other wives? Do we know?
I have always wondered that also,. Of course the church says he was in celibacy marriages with everyone but Emma and that is why there are no other descendants of his multiple wives. I've never seen it addressed either.
He did have children who lived to adulthood with Emma. She married a non-Mormon after Smith’s death and was alienated from the church.
Perhaps he was just infertile
What a fascinating interview. Logically laid out, flowing questions and well spoken on all accounts. So glad about your amazing surgeries. Best wishes to all.
Jeremy has been demonized in LDS circles and that's such a shame. Expected, but a shame nonetheless. By the way, nothing wrong with going to the Tanners' website- they got their stuff from the LDS church :)
When you mentioned your dads remarriage you stated he had 4 kids yet during the divorce you only mention 3. Can you clarify that? I find your research very interesting. Hope to hear your point of view on things that have been bothering me!
+Dutchess830 It might have been a death in the family.
+Evan Cawley Starting at 6:15-7:15 during the divorce the bishop gave 2 sons to the father and 1 son to the mother. His father remarried and some how has 4 children... 8:05-8:20
+Cheery Photographer With Jeremy it's all about getting facts straight. Not telling the story differently or adding and leaving things out...
+Cheery Photographer Family is pretty easy to keep straight!
Are you seriously nitpicking this?
A bit of constructive criticism, I wouldn't take the audience away with a video about cochlear implant... if I wasn't SUPER interested in his story, I would have left at this point. And I REALLY want people to stay engaged. Much love Jeremy and John!
..but at the same time I know why he wanted to explain why he is speaking a but funny, and abt the wires coming out of his head... :) but yes - he could have just told about it instead of the little video... :)
Nah man I think it was important to give context about what the implant is for people who are curious. It’s all about honesty
It lasted like 45 seconds
He’s brilliant!
Leah and Cody, you are so good and pure! What is your Facebook site? I want to join it.