Reacting to Johnny Harris The REAL Story of the Mormon Church
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ส.ค. 2023
- Johnny Harris, TH-camr and independent journalist, recently made a video titled "The REAL Story of the Mormon Church." But what do active Mormons (correctly known as Latter-day Saints) think about his video? Does the video portray the real story of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or are there incorrect portrayals of the history of the Mormon Church? Was Joseph Smith a fraud? Are the origins of the Book of Mormon a complete hoax? In this episode, David Snell watches the video by ex-Mormon Johnny Harris and responses as a faithful Latter-day Saint.
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What did you think of David's reaction? Let us know in the comments below!!
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They came to America to get away from the Church of England which was a dictator. They came here to worship God in the way that they knew. They didn’t come here to abandon religion
That's a key point of misinformation already which is only going to skew my view further of what he has to say.
Many of the founding Fathers were religious or believed in God. They weren't anti-religion, they didn't like state sanctioned religion, thus the 1st amendment.
You're right: the main motivation of the Pilgrim Fathers in setting up the Plymouth Colony was so they could worship as they chose; as far as that goes, the sanitised mythology we were taught in grade school is correct. But the fact is that the Puritans were a bunch of religious fanatics who wanted to create a theocracy based on their narrow understanding of the Bible. Prior to getting on the Mayflower, they lived in The Netherlands where they were free to worship however they chose. But that wasn't good enough for them. In modern terms, they found it constantly triggering to live in a community where they were surrounded by decent people who did not believe as they did, and they were terrified that the general religious tolerance of that country meant that some of their members - particularly their children - might get fed up with their oppressive interpretation of the Bible and move to another church. In short, the true story of the Pilgrims is an ancient one: the men in positions of power in a church found ways of dressing up their moves to maintain and increase that power in holy garb, and they managed to bamboozle most of their gullible flock. (Hmmm... In the context of this video, you mentioning the Pilgrims was actually very appropriate!)
@@XiongGou There is no definite answer to how many attended church in 1790. The 10% claim was first proposed by a couple of historians in the 1990's
But, it contradicts 2 things. The number of chappels and cathedrals that were being built during the 18th century increased.
And journals and those who were well known
"Even today 27% of Americans qualify as regular churchgoers, according to the 2022 General Social Survey."
1. "(Washington) regularly attended services held by military chaplains, and also with local civilian congregations. As president, between 1789 and late 1790, he worshipped at St. Paul's Chapel and at Trinity Church both in Manhattan.
2. Eli Whitney was known to be a religious person and attended church. He was raised in a devoutly religious household and grew up with strong Christian values. Whitney's family belonged to the Congregational Church, and he was raised with a solid foundation of faith. While there isn't an extensive amount of information available about his personal religious practices, it's widely acknowledged that he had a connection to the church and its teachings.
3. Alexander Hamilton was also known to have attended church. He was raised as a Presbyterian and had a strong religious upbringing. Throughout his life, he attended various churches in different locations where he lived, including Trinity Church in New York City. Hamilton's religious beliefs played a significant role in his life, and he often expressed moral and ethical viewpoints that were influenced by his Christian background.
4. Throughout his life, Jefferson did attend church services at times, but his attendance was irregular and often for political or social reasons rather than strictly for religious devotion. He occasionally attended Anglican (Episcopal) services, especially during his time in Virginia. However, there are accounts that suggest he may have felt uncomfortable with some of the religious aspects of these services.
5. Thomas Paine was known for his skeptical and critical views on organized religion.
6. John Adams did attend church and was a religious person. He was a Congregationalist in terms of his religious affiliation. Adams was raised in a devoutly religious family, and his Christian faith played a significant role in his life and values. Throughout his life, he maintained a connection to his religious beliefs and attended church services.
7. Benjamin Franklin's relationship with religion was nuanced. While he attended church services at times and believed in a higher power,
There, that's 4 out of 7. That's almost 60%.
Ah yes the puritans. They were cruel to anyone who disagreed with them. Alongside the Roman Catholics, the Church of England was just politically involved in everything. Tsk Tsk Tsk. No wonder Jesus said no church that existed were true.
Actually, you're incorrect and he is in the right, though I don't think you understand what his point is. I think Johnny simply phrased it in a way that made it seem like everyone was an atheist or something. Pretty much every christian religion in America is derived from Protestantism. They were literally protesting mainstream christianity in their day and age and wanted to be able to break free and do it in their own way, with their own ideas, free from the dictations of overlording authority figures. This is why hundreds of christian faiths were created during the time of JS. That's literally what Protestantism is about. Most people in America at the time of JS believed in God but a huge chunk of people were not actually church goers, or they were constantly shifting from religion to religion.
Having met Johnny Harris in his younger years, I can't say anything but great things about him. Brilliantly talented guy with a curiosity that is second to none. The fact that he has left the church and that lately he has been open about his reasons to leave isn't at all a reason for me to doubt of his honesty and intent to do what he has concluded to be the right thing for him. I really appreciated his earlier video about his reasons to leave the church, and I took his latest "What Mormons REALLY Believe" as a personal essay supported with sources, but emphasis in "personal" nonetheless. The history of the church as understood today from credible sources provides plenty of transparency to arrive to many of the conclusions he has arrived to. Yet I'm skeptical of anyone, including Johnny, claiming to be the bearer of the "Real" story of anything--and that's where I take issue with the video. Not with the content or even with Johnny's conclusion, only with the portrayal of it in the thumbnail and title as being something like "finally! we finally have the REAL story". We know he doesn't have it. No one really has it. Not even our institutional church fully has it. It is a puzzle that many people across the belief and academic spectrum are trying to put together and therefore is an evolving story. And relying on an evolving story requires a LOT of faith--faith to either believe it, or to disbelieve it.
So again, I welcome Johnny's approach to his former faith and his story; I think it is carefully crafted to deliver a tone that is moderate and respectful, and I only wish he (and many others that engage in the online conversation about our faith) were more careful about claiming to be "the" source of truth about this whole thing.
Thanks for this reaction video!
Ditto. I also find it really ignorant when people claim they know the “real” story so that means that they need to leave and everybody else who stays doesn’t know the “real” story, and they have their head in the sand. maybe this was more realistic sounding years ago, but having experienced people online constantly talking about their decision to leave, most people are not just gonna sit there and ignore it. They are going to figure out why the heck all these people keep making all these claims and research it themselves. And for some, they will probably come to the same conclusion and leave. But for others, it’s just new information and doesn’t change our faith experiences. And also somewhere in between. But I agree that the story, however its told, is full of faith, so there really is no “real” story. You just have to come to your own conclusion because anytime I hear any “real” story, there’s actually a lot that isn’t explained.
I've done my research. And every time I research something that is said against the church, I go immediately and find out what happened. And every time I do the research , I find it is not at all what was being said. This Harris guy is lost. Can he come back yes, but he is off. He tells 98 percent of the truth , to wether he did it on purpose or not doesn't , matter it matters , that he is not speaking the truth. Wether through omission , or he is seeing it with blinders.
His title was obviously clickbaty. But what he told was actually pretty close to the first lesson the missionaries teach. His video includes stuff that is not included in this reaction like the first vision. I don't think that his intention was to give some alternative, mind-blowing story, he just wanted to give the real story as the church teaches it including all the details we leave out because "babies need milk, not meat" and stuff like that. I think he was still pretty respectful towards the church with his video.
After moving to DC he sold out for the almighty dollar and he admits to the loss of the spirit even though he may not recognize that. If you look carefully you can see the light in him before he left the church and now you can see the light is gone.
He never mentions the 3 or the 8 witnesses.
Joseph was religious. His family read the Bible every day.
Agree, many sources (family of Joseph smith) shared they read the Bible as a family and all but father attended local congregations including a 14 year old having a soul search towards a religion. Is that not young enough to be “religious”?
"Religious" is often used to describe a degree of religiosity--which would include a wide variety of regular practices. It's vague. But, I think, in this context, it just means he's not regularly attending a church. What little learning Joseph had, though, was probably learning to read from the Bible, which was very widespread practice at the time.
no Joes dad in woodscrape society weird
They were Freemasons
His family have a long history of practising magick and the occult
Joseph didn’t decide to just leave. The saints were driven out with mobbing and burning homes and killing people
Do you know why?
The saints in MO issued an extermination statement against Missourians LONG before Gov. Boggs issued his inhumane and inexcusable order. That said the people in MO did try to find ways to work with the saints there it is just too bad we as a people weren't willing to work harder to get along. We have a very severe persecution complex that exists to this day. Before you reply back telling me that I am a vile anti-mormon please read both volumes of Saints. That is where I got many of my facts from regarding our treatment in MO.
@@tykempton8562 The saints in Missouri were not perfect, but their treatment at the hands of the local population and the state itself was absolutely unjustified. I don't know how you get this both siderism nonsense from reading Saints.
Today it would be categorized as an attempted genocide under international law.
And Joseph didn't just take off the next day, like he makes it sound, or even a week later.
I am an ex Baptist now Mormon....i never say anything but great words about how the Baptist faith led me to this church. I love the Baptists (although at times they dont like me lol). If you leave your church, fair enough; I did so. But to then turn to tear it down, not a good game plan.
Maybe is because they still keep lying to people!
I have loads of respect for my Baptist friends! Love your attitude!
I don't think that it is his plan to "tear it down", his video would have been different if he tried to do that. I think he is just expressing his opinion. And why shouldn't he do that? It was a very fair video from his side, he didn't bring up any fake news. Everything he says is church doctrine in his video is actually church doctrine. His video was fair.
Well, I grew up between the Assembly of God and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and as far as I'm concerned with the Assembly of God their music and worship is awesome but their pastors most of the time were kind of nuts. Always screaming, etc.
I attended one of those myself. and yes def loved the music @@BrianTerrill
I have a question for Mormons, if a man in a similar stature to Joseph Smith were to announce today that he found the plates after the angel Moroni spoke to him to transcribe more of the book of Mormon, would yall believe him and he become your new prophet?
There have been cases of people trying that. Usually a few members of their family and a few friends join. And that's as far as they grow.
@@user-tb4cw3nm1y thanks for the answer, I didn't mean it disrespectfully either. Genuinely just wanted to know. I used to be religious (Christianity) and walked away from it to embrace Deism.
The fact that retelling history is never objective is like the first thing you learn in a decent history class…
Let’s trust the LDS to be truly objective about their history
They're not. No one is. That's the point I was trying to make.@@TaskForceB
@@TaskForceB I think that's the point. History of something like the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints or Christianity itself is going to be told by people with extreme biases on the one side or the other. Imagine telling the history of the original Christian church - the whole thing started with a bunch of people who thought Jesus was risen from the dead and now sits on the right hand of God. I'd imagine people saying 'well, where is he then?'.
@@andrewolsen2711what’s great about this channel is that it dives into the mistakes made by church leaders, exploring all documents rather than a select few
@@joeoleary9010 th-cam.com/video/HhBpHNxSlpA/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/YcTW6t2obe0/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/KvWPmLLV3Jw/w-d-xo.html
I've watched several of Johnny's videos, on occasion. Usually it's his videos about public policy and politics that catch my eye. Very smart guy. I don't always agree with him, but he gives me much to think about, and I appreciate it.
Johnny did a video about why he left the Church before he did the video that was reviewed here, but it seemed sort of vague to me about exactly why he left. He mentioned that he had some psychological issues, particularly on his mission, and his description sounded a lot like a condition called religious scrupulosity. As I have had a similar experience with the Church, but thankfully found help THROUGH the Church rather than leaving it, I can definitely attest to the fact that he's probably had a very hard faith path to walk.
Yeah, I had something similar, but it was called religious trauma to me by my therapist. My therapist was agnostic, and I was able to get through all my issues without leaving the church. It can get very complicated when personal experiences compound on our beliefs which compounds on our knowledge and understanding of something like this.
@@starzilla2975you’re very faithful and brave to not leave! I totally understand why some leave the church, but so many think that we endorse things like SA, amongst other things. I read a comment that got hundreds of likes where someone said that our church supports it. That’s not only so far from the truth, but tries to link the few horribly bad apples with the good fruit. It’s a bandwagon so many hop on, defend, and die on. It’s sad and attempts to disgrace in a way the so many wonderful and faithful members. I’ve had an undeniable witness from the Spirit that this is the restored gospel and the fact that people claim to say they had a witness that this isn’t the true church, I would be very careful in how you discerned that as Satan comes as an angel of light. I know my experience was not from the “angel of light” but was truly from the Spirit.
If I were you I would ignore the bishop's advice not to read "anti-mormon" literature or articles! There is some of that, but there is an awful lot of truth out there too! If you study everything in the church history and can reconcile that with everything you've been told, that should lead you to the reality of the truth. I don't believe most members really know enough about the real beliefs of the church to make an honest belief in all of it. Don't be duped! Look deeply into what they believe before you committ your life and your family's life to it!
@@deborahyoung7941 honestly yes. But also, the most important thing is a witness from God whether it is true or not and I received a witness at a time when I was highly mentally unstable and about to be admitted to a psychiatric hospital. When I had the witness from the Spirit (while a friend was reading a book titled ‘The Heavens Are Open’ by Wendy M. Nelson), I literally thought I was condemned to Hell because I was in an ultra delusional state. It took me months before I realized that that was God giving me a witness from the Spirit about the restored gospel. More than anything though, I’m a follower of Christ. I’m not just a 100% listening to church content-no. I go through a lot of content on YT and IG (and some TikTok) from Christian content creators and I have learned a huge wealth of knowledge. Demons aren’t really talked about in the LDS church and I really really wish they were because they are constantly trying to find ways to tempt and open doors to ultimately attempt to steal, kill, and destroy us, like what almost happened to me with an eating disorder and almost dying. I’m so freaking glad that I didn’t die and that I pushed through the physical and mental disability I experienced from it for months and came out conqueror. I can’t thank God enough for giving me another chance to redeem myself, commit myself 100000% to Him each and every day and to better following the callings he’s personally been giving me through personal revelation. Thank you Jesus 😭❤️🔥
I loved the simplicity in complexity. It actually defines any meaningful you are involved in. Think of anyone that is special in your life. Think of all the times you might have been frustrated or angered by that person. Think of all of the things you didn't know about them at first and the struggles you had when you came to knowing them. Any marriage, parent, sibling, friend relationship goes through this simplicity in complexity paradox. The most meaningful relationships are typically ones that survive the complexity. That is why I love the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and why I love Jesus.
nobody I know married teenagers, sent men on missions and then married their wives, claim that some skeletal remains were those of a white lamanite named zelph, claim to translate egyptian papyrus into abrahamic writings.
@@Goobersnobber47 Yeah you must be living under a rock cause I know people who did far "weirder or worse" things than all of those. I know people that have murdered their children in their wombs, after having plenty of premarital sex consensual and nonconsensual to get them. I know people that have cheated on their spouses with pornography and with their babysitters. I know people that have relatives and ancestors that killed other people because of the color of their skin or the hat on their head. I know people who used the Bible and make changes and translations therein to weaponize and monetize Christ to get people to do what they want and build Churches through their priestcraft. I know people that believe stoning women and children for not obeying supposed religious law is alright. I know people who believe in prearranged marriages to teenagers. I know of cultures where the cheif sleeps with the bride before she weds. And this is just the people that I know. If I were to read the Bible, I would find prophets and kings that have done even 'weirder and worse' things too. Like Joseph a almost 40 year old marrying a impregnated 12 year old Mary and birthing Jesus. Like David who sent a man to his death to marry His wife who became the Great Great Great etc grandmother of Jesus. Like Abraham who just abandon his other wife in the desert. Like Moses who built a pagan idol serpant that would magically heal those who looked at it or worshipped it. All of these people that you are mentioning are probably people alive that you know too. If you are so self-righteous and can't associate with anyone that has done weird or worse things than Joseph, you must be a very lonely man who does nothing but share how he is the only righteous person in the world and that he doesn't hang around sinners. The fact is we love sinners being one of them ourselves. We have a Church that is designed to heal this wicked world through Restoration. Not all of us members are perfect and we make mistakes, but that is why we desperately need a Savior to make it possible to get better. I believe His Church was made for this purpose. We as a whole can say that we are much stronger than we were 200 years ago partly because of weird and worse things that Jesus restored. The fruits of this Church are a much better option than what the world has to offer. The moment you see how awful the world is compared to the weird things someone did 200 or 2000 years ago, you might care about swallowing your pride, getting out of your rock and actually learning what this Church really is.
Amen
The issue though is you do not know Jesus. You know a false Christ. Not the true Jesus of the Bible. You’ve received a false spirit. Joseph smith was deceived by the same demon that Muhammad was deceived by. The same demonic spirit appeared to both of them and deceived them both. The parallels between LDS and Islam and other cults are all right there if you’re honest enough to look at them.
My question is always: if it was all fake, what was Joseph’s motivation?! What did he get from it all? It sounds like Johnny implied he was after power or fame or multiple wives, but looking closer at his actual day to day life- I think there are few if any who’d want to walk in his shoes. It was HARD. There were trials and challenges galore. He was never rich, or “popular” among the general public (quite the opposite), spent time in prison and was killed at a young age. What did he have to gain from it all if it was some complex fraud?! I just don’t see it. He persisted and endured despite trials that would have sent many of us packing.
I agree with you on this and then to put his family through all these hardships. One could say he was a narcissist, but historical records don't seem to point in this direction.
Why would someone want multiple wives anyways? I mean, isn't it better just to sleep with multiple women, leave and not make any commitments to them. Isn't that what so many 'rich' people are doing today?
Possible explanation: Generally, people who are slaves to sin don't benefit from their sin like they expected to. Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin all pursued power which ultimately led to absolutely miserable endings (and lives. Hitler was a mess towards the end, and Stalin lived in constant paranoia). Pursuing power and riches is poisonous, but most men pursue it anyway. Joseph Smith was at least positioned to be the one who had power, if it worked out. So, it can at least be a reasonable explanation.
@@juliahansen3773 The difference is those men considered themselves God and sinned by trying to throw the real God out of the equation altogether. They all failed miserably. Joseph Smith at his dying breath recognized God as his only hope. Because of that difference alone, Joseph Smiths succeeded while the others legacies died off completely. By their fruits ye shall know them. Jesus was also positioned with power and in his dying breath commended his life to God. His legacy continues today. So your explanation doesn't work. Whatever Joseph Smith wanted to happen in the world is still living today. And the world is less sinful because of it.
Muhammad also has had a lasting impact, and many Muslims will die for their belief. Neither of these two things is strong evidence that JS wasn't a false prophet.
As far as a less sinful world, that has been going on steadily since Christ's resurrection, and can absolutely not be attributed to Joseph Smith and Latter Day Saints. Human rights, hospitals, taking care of orphans, charities etc...all greatly predate Joseph Smith (and were started by Christians throughout history).
In fact, there were definitely some very QUESTIONABLE doctrines of Joseph Smith that the Latter Day Saints have abandoned - that's a big sign of bad fruit!
Johnny raises the point that some members 'ignore' inconvenient details about church history, and I think there may be some truth to that. I think Johnny and a lot of other ex-members grew up in a time and a culture where some members did obfuscate the touchier subjects in the church's history in an attempt to protect people's testimonies. These members saw the value in the church and its teachings, and believed the best approach to tricky subjects was to not give them any sunlight, or even in some cases shun their discussion in order to not harm their children's growing testimony (after all, details about Joseph's life have little impact on our eternal salvation). Although this may have been done with good intentions, the result was a lot of people grew up without the reasoning ability or information to navigate these nuances, and basically believed the church was perfect in all its facets... so once they finally heard these details about the church from a website or some evangelical, their whole world view was shattered. Saints Unscripted is a real gift for helping people understand the nuances and difficulties behind imperfect people building God's church. Hope to see more people take up this endeavor
agreed!
well put Oliver!
I agree. I think this is why I’ve never been angry when I learn something new. I can see that testimonies are so valuable to people, so I really don’t think those people meant any harm but I am seeing a lot of value in just talking about it more. I think a lot more people would be gone if we didn’t talk about it.
As a former Mormon this is the first time I have ever heard that the witnesses actually saw the gold plates. I was always taught they were covered and they saw them through their spiritual eyes. And all of the witnesses were either related to Joseph Smith or a friend and his relatives. I have a hard time believing that if they actually saw the gold plates and handled them that they would leave the church just because of disagreements with Joseph Smith. If he really had these experiences and really had gold plates they would have been a defender of Joseph Smith till death as you are. They may not have denied their testimony so they wouldn't look like they had been duped --pride. I don't get why it's a big deal when people leave the church. As a believer and follower of Jesus I don't feel a need for church. I only need a relationship with God through Jesus. He is the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE. But for those that do need a church I say go, serve, participate in any church of your choosing but don't look down on anyone or criticize others beliefs. God Loves All His Creation. He Is LOVE.❤ Jesus came and showed that Love.❤ I do see lots of people making money on TH-cam using religion and that's fine also if everyone will accept everyone and do it lovingly. I have noticed since Hello Saints started his channel people have been getting less critical and nicer. 👍 to Pastor Jeff. ❤
No. We ignore nothing that matters. Only losers fret about 200 years ago while Protestant Ravi Zacharias characters lead Protestants today.
2:04 an objective historical lens doesn't exist. I like how the leading danish science website videnskab dk discussed with experts about objectivity in history, and they said (paraphrasing):
History is like a court case. Your role is, just like a lawyer, to give the most convincing, and sometimes even the most appealing, arguments. The theory that wins the most people over gets in the history books.
The history itself isn't objective, but the people who make history their life goals, historians, typically ARE objective when averaged out across the industry. While one may say "this never happened", others may prove "this DID happen, here's the evidence, and your bias is that it makes your family lineage look bad". In that case, others in the field look at the reports, compare against their own evidences, and then, collectively, irons out the bumps of history over time. History is "objective" because the people that dedicate their lives to it have an incentive to NOT be biased, while the industry itself is set up in a way to not have blind faith in any one side. Your historical take is ALWAYS just as likely to be ridiculed as a Christians version of history... and THAT is attempted objectivity. Think of the Egyptian pyramids... for the longest time we claimed it was built ENTIRELY by slaves until Egyptian historians with a bias proved it was not. Of course it went through the wringer of critique before it was finally settled, among the historian community, that they were not, in fact, ONLY built by slaves.
This is unlike religious history which includes a lot of blind faith and almost a detestment of any sort of critique or review from other experts. It's a system designed to prevent further developments of historical claims... it just is what they say it is.
Thank you! It drove me crazy that he left out the witnesses. It feels like he should have known that and maybe left it out because its a stronger point?
I agree. Especially with a lot of the way he “objectively” presents history and doctrine, that is a key element that he should not have left out.
@@HalE14 Yeah, I mean he did a better job than most Anti, but still that's critical.
In his short video about our history he finds it fitting to mention Kolob and Joseph marrying a teenageer, but not that there are witnesses to the Book of Mormon and he doesn't think this is a biased representation?
@@adamb7230 exactly. Biased doesn’t necessarily mean you’re a jerk, but it definitely shows what is prioritized in your thinking
It’s clearly a hit piece. Google will server it first when people search “Mormonism”. This is how the world works now.
I left the church when I was 16 and I tried many other religions and churches. I came back to the church at 45 because none of those others could explain parts of the Bible to me. I have also heard the spirit of God tell me directly it’s true. So put that in your pipe and smoke it Johnny.
Hehe. You got me. I guess he is one of the few that could put it in his pipe and smoke it. You made me laugh.
Some people are happier being fool
I love it!
Some people are happier because they have ongoing personal revelation from a Loving and merciful father in Heaven.
@@sunsolstarNonbelievers have their reward.
HI David where can I watch your video about saints moving to Utah that contradicts that Zion New Jerusalem in Missouri?
The problem with his story is that he takes truths and twists and turns them to fit his narrative. The first point begins in the beginning. Joseph Smith was a storyteller. Everyone was a storyteller at this time period. They had no radio, no TV, and newspapers are limited. Indian culture is full of storytellers. Some cultures still have storytelling as a center of their existence.
He makes a monster with the puzzle pieces and tapes it together rather than putting the puzzle together in their proper place.
@@zionmama150 perfect, exactly
@@gordianknot9595 Baloney. He did not. Only in your anti-view. And btw, I see you're back! Couldn't resist, could ya' -
Trolling around on here again on this faith channel, trying to convince the ignorant the Church isn't true - good luck. I'm surprised Saints Unscripted hasn't thrown you off -
@@zionmama150yep
@@gordianknot9595 right you know everything from all the puzzle pieces we don’t have and use the changed history to tape the puzzle together into a puzzle monster. Makes me wonder what you think of the anachronisms in Paul’s accounts found in the Bible.
One interesting thing about sealings in general (not just marriage) is that originally the idea seemed to be that you would seal everyone to the prophets and apostles whether as children or wives or parents or what have you. The idea was that the sealings are only effective if the participants remain faithful and since many peoples family members had rejected the gospel (like nonmember parents) then they need to be sealed to those who were faithful or more likely to be at least. So even after Joseph and some other apostles had passed if your parents weren’t members or if a woman wasn’t married to a member they would be sealed to Joseph or brigham or someone else who was faithful their whole lives. It wasn’t till Wilford Woodruff had a revelation in the St George temple that they corrected the practice and everyone strictly had their families sealed as they are here on Earth. Doctrine is revealed line up one line. Not every aspect of things was revealed all at once or by one prophet so people tend to imperfectly try to fill in the gaps based on what they do know. All that to say that sealings were understood differently for the first 70 years or so of the church.
Revelation be like: listen, folks, stealing children was a bad idea.
@@ruslannykyforov5740 they just didn’t understand yet. revelation is line upon line. the one to Wilford woodruff was almost that blunt though haha. It went more like Wilford- “god should we be doing it this way?”
Holy Spirit- “do they have parents?”
Wilford- “yes”
Holy Spirit- “ then you should honor them.”
@@ruslannykyforov5740 The gospel of Jesus Christ is STILL being restored to this day.
Believing that all would be revealed immediately is just plain nonsense.
This is why Prophets are called of God to continue to restore His gospel.
Otherwise, why would there be a need for a Prophet after Moses since God had revealed the 10 commandments already.
Mosaic law was continually changed and updated as Hod saw the need to do so.
God is the same yesterday, today and forever.
@@brianc.1149 You make a lot of claims. Maybe you could provide a demonstration and evidence for each one that a person could examine and determine if your claims are in fact true.
Let's just start with animal sacrifice. The firstlings of a flock are no longer taken to Jewish temples to be sacrificed for the forgiveness of sin.
There were 48 Prophets and 7 Prophetesses in the Old Testament, yet a God who claims to be the same yesterday, today and forever doesn't have a Prophet among the Jews?
In the past few years, gospel changes have been made by Jesus Christ through his living Prophets. While DOCTRINE hasn't been changed, they way we worship has.
One can say this about the Bible, any belief... No real proof. It's called, Faith.
The Bible is like Santa Clause
You have a lot of evidence supporting it
1 my mom and dad say it’s true (they would never lie)
2 I had a wish list and Santa 🎅 gave me everything
3 I wrote a letter to Santa and he wrote back
4 I sat on Santa’s lap
5 I left a cookie and he ate it
6. Tons of Christmas songs about Santa, everyone knows it’s true
The Book of Mormon is like the Easter Bunny 🐰
1 A man’s claim
The Bible has something called MAPS
Manuscripts
Archeological evidence (and real cities)
Prophecies
Scientific Data
I am lds by the way, but the Bible takes almost no faith to believe, while the Book of Mormon definitely does
Exactly, typical enlightened atheist mindset, walk by faith, not by sight.
Not really, the Bible keeps being vindicated by history and archaeology. Aside from this we believe in Our Lord because of Israel's prophecies and the fulfillment he brought. That, and he established the church that still stands to this day
The bible is true and archeology and the tens of thousands of manuscripts preserved through thousands of years prove it has not been corrupted as smith said. Don't let him fool you with the same lie satan told adam and eve: you can be like the most high.
Do you know why dna shows american indians are not of jewish ancestry? Do you know why archeology shows the book of mormon is historically false? Do you know why horses and cows and things like chariots and even the wheel were not in america when the book of mormon says they were? The list is endless. Yet the bible is proven true by archeology almost monthly in the middle east.
@@jackdaw6359agree. I love that the Bible tells all believers to test their faith with their brain, that God has, does, and will always provide evidence. That God always causes a public scene when he reveals himself and does not and will not require us to take one man's word for it. I love that the Bible advises us to not trust our feelings alone because they aren't facts. Blind faith, is unreasonable and not what is being asked of us. I LOVE that.
I'd be curious to hear what Johnny says about Christianity at large and the narrative of Jesus.
To the true Christian, Mormonism is not a Christian denomination. 🤷🏻♀️
he's probably turned to atheism, that's what happens to most of these guys. If they have a modicum of consistency they have to apply the same critical standard to all religions that they applied to the LDS Church, especially just general Christianity. Once they do, they have no where left to go but atheism. Many try agnosticism for a while, but soon realize that's just a cop out.
Unfortunately, if they are intellectually honest, eventually they realize that atheism/materialism is in fact just another human created religion, doesn't provide satisfactory answers to life's existential questions and cannot sustain the soul through life's inevitable let downs, betrayals and extreme hardships. Usually then they either finally break down and call out for God when their lives experience these extreme hardships (all lives do at some point) or they double down in their anger and vitriol and die miserable and alone in their perpetual hatred. I pray regularly that those who have fallen away eventually have experiences that humble them and nudge them back to the Lord.
@@techateachaThat’s your opinion. What makes a true Christian? Why are you the authority or judge of whether those who love Jesus and truly believe in Him, believe He is the Savior, and serve Him are Christians??
“By their fruits, ye shall know them.”
I was wondering if he would get into that. I've been on the fence several times after growing up in the church, but I haven't found a better answer yet other than to believe in nothing but science.
@@deboraholsen2504 not judging the Mormon believers. It’s the heretical teachings and beliefs. Seriously, why do you all need to have a Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith to learn how to believe, love and serve Jesus? Isn’t the Bible sufficient? Sola Scriptura, 2 Timothy 3:15-17.
Where can I find something about Don Bradley's new presented research? Sounds interesting! (Catrn I read some tidbits about it without having to purchase the three-part work?)
I believe he presented this research at the recent FAIR Latter-day Saints conference from earlier this month. You miiight be able to access it on their website (if not now, hopefully soon).
My brain is programmed for many things. Staying in the church is not one of them. It’s the thing that most helps me break undesirable programming. People act like we’re trapped in this cult, as if the gospel doesn’t grant some of the best tools for gaining the sort of freedom I’d consider worth having. And it’s not some kind of blissful ignorance.
say you're trapped without saying you're trapped
It can be counterintuitive but I need outside sources (not just myself) to judge me. Otherwise I don't feel progress and a way to become better. Freedom is progress, not following my own impulses and desires all the time. One thing good about the church as it provides me opportunity to socialize and interact with those outside of my circles, my economic status, even my ethnicity and culture. I've never found anything better.
@@WhiteArtsMagictrapped how? No debt? No addictions? Healthy? Most likely with a family and close friends? Where's the trap?
@@racealexander1660then try leaving. Have your mother burst into tears because you’re not wearing your garments. Lose a large sense of community because you’ve only ever made friends at church. Feel the guilt of disappointing your friends because they respect you and your opinion but must revere the church’s authority above all else. Be the sort of person they tip toe around because they’ve been taught to distrust people who leave for being “unfaithful” or “selfish” when so many of us leave because the truth may be hard, but it is the truth. You’re not trapped in the sense of chains. You’re trapped by the familial, social, and often mental cost of leaving. And you’ve often had a lifetime of lessons and talks and small social triggers programming you that leaning will cost you everything - even your very family and soul. But being free is better.
@@brooklynparkse those are good points but also true of any very tightknit group. Not exclusive to our church.
I come from a large, close family. My brother left a few years ago with his family. He gets treated the exact same as he did before. Granted, he doesn't try to tell us how smart and free he is and how blind we are to the 'real' truth. We just go about our lives, same as before. He comes to family church events when he can, etc. Same with my aunt and her family who left 30 years ago. She's one of my favorite people on the planet.
You also have to consider a different reality. Did you grow up in the church? And have left as an adult? I think you underestimate the blessings you (or others) received by living the gospel for the first 20-40 years of your life. You get taught all the morals, probably avoid addictions, learn hard work and self reliance, have a great friend and family network, the list goes on. And then when you don't believe it or need it anymore, you bow out.
Have you ever watched the come back podcast? There are a ton of people who left and got in really dark places by not living gospel principles. And their families in many cases were still there for them. And they were able to pull out with the help of the atonement.
Anyway, i really don't believe there's any freedom in leaving the commandments. It can seem that way at first. But very rarely are people's lives better in the long term after they leave. True freedom is found in living God's will. After all, he knows the best life we can have. That's all he wants for his children.
The Gold rush was completely founded on treasure seeking.
I was raised LDS
I married a catholic and we have 4 children
2 have stayed active and 2 are not active.. They are not in any way “brainwashed” to say the least .. and I love them all equally and have raised wonderful loving beautiful children who are kind intelligent humans .. do I wish they would all go to church .. of course I do but I know that everything will be ok because I raised them well.. And I know they love the Lord .. you can’t dwell on it .. only take it one day at a time and be a good Christ like example ..
People love blaming the prejudice of their parents onto the religion they followed, even though the prejudice is against the tenets of the religion itself.
Read Proverbs 23:31-33 and Leviticus 20:13. They debunk the Catholic cult. Also, 1 Corinthians 15:29 proves the Church of Jesus Christ true.
@@general-i15No. Nothing in the Torah proves that. You need to use the new testament to prove your faith. I can read Hebrew. Jesus is never mentioned in Tanakh. I'm sorry.
It's kind of hard to see someone's view of the outside of the milk jug if you've only always lived inside the milk jug.
I've lived outside the "milk jug" for many years and have never understood ex-mos and antis. I think most of their conclusions are toxic and not completely truthful. They tend to sensationalize things. At least the vocal ones on youtube.
Josiah Stoal hired Joseph to dig for treasure and finally, Joseph convinced Mr. Stoal to give it up. That is all the treasure-seeking Joseph did and he vehemently reacted to that charge.
You should read more, he was involved in dozens of digs throughout the 1820s, even after he supposedly saw the first vision and moroni visited him.
@@dr33776 You should read more than what the anti-Mormon and anti-Joseph crowd wrote. Read the responses of Oliver and Joseph to such charges. If you can't find it, read Jonathan Neville's works-- he has done more research on primary sources than all others combined.
@@dr33776 Even if Joseph did treasure seeking that doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing. Recently, in Utah, there was a treasure hunt and someone found the 25,000 dollar price. People still use metal detectors today to search for treasure. Kids do geocaching. In Alaska, people still hunt for gold. It is all about how your frame it. The Gold Rush lead many people out west and up North, so Joseph participating in some treasure hunting isn't a deal breaker.
@@dr33776 JS married women, including some who were married to living men, in secret and attacked anyone who called him on it. I don't know why LDS find him to be such a trustworthy source when it comes to his own past.
As a believing Latter Day Saint, I really love and appreciate your reaction to this.
Ah, the Mormon Church has no way to authenticate its history expect internally within the church itself. It makes the claim to restore the lost gospel when the gospel was never lost but has always been clearly proclaimed in the only Word of God, the Bible, not the Book of Mormon which in reality was nothing more but a book that heavily steals from the Old Testament.
A great response video that should be mandatory viewing along side Johnny’s explanation of our history. I wouldn’t say all of what he said is what we “actually” believe or I would share his biased opinions. I see all the same history and “actually” believe it differently than he does and there are huge reasons for that. It would be interesting for him to include why people believe differently than he does beyond Joseph Smith being charismatic, and creating something that sounds appealing and as his says “magical.” It goes way beyond that. Many of us for instance have tested God’s word found in these scriptures and found them to be absolutely true to their word and promises. Many of us for instance have seen and experienced the priesthood in action just like people did in the New Testament. Many of us know we don’t have to take Joseph’s word or story at face value and can receive our own divine witness of the restoration etc. The list goes on. I personally see the simplicity beyond the complexity because I know the history of Christ’s church and followers have human flaws. It’s always been that way, as shown throughout the Old and New Testament, so when I here about a church leader or historical figure making a mistake, Christ’s church isn’t a glass house that shatters when a stone is tossed at it. Anyway, this video shouldn’t be called what “Mormon’s Actually Believe” rather “What I (Johnny) Actually Believe Based on My Biased Interpretation and Conclusions” which are not the same conclusions of believing members who look at the same material, without the reductions and facts left out of this version of our story. Anyway, thank you for all the people behind SU. This is a fair and well presented response :)
Amen and amen
Excellent analysis and explanation! Thank you for being so thoughtful and honest and sincere.
lol
@@AvantNovismandatory by whom? No one should be mandating anything to anyone. Especially not a religious video
A mandatory suggestion for anyone who wants to understand all sides of a story.
In all intellectual pursuits, evidence is something that needs to be considered collectively. If people like their info lopsided they of course have the agency to accept it as so. If you don’t wish the suggestion, no one can force you to do anything. Change the channel.
As a Muslim, I really love to see what was with LDS and Mormon. It's open my mind and knowledge on this matter. Thanks.
Muslims, Jehovah's Witnesses, Iglesia ni Cristo, and Mormons all share the mistaken belief that the Bible was corrupted and their true "prophet" corrected it. It is odd that each of these "new prophets" claim they are the true restorer and deny the other ones are correct.
Evidence showing the Bible is true and the Book of Mormon is a 19th century fiction below:
No wheat, no goats, no steel found in the Americas, no metal smelting furnaces, no metal armor, no temple as grand as Solomon's as described in 2 Nephi 5:16, no steel swords, no skeletons of these warriors, no graves, no cities (it would be impossible for a city the size of Zarahemla 4 Nephi 1:8 to leave no trace), no cattle, no chariot parts, no Nephite coins (listed in book of Alma as being used for a thousand years), no Jewish relics from supposed Jews, no metal plates like Nephites supposedly had, no artifacts whatsoever, no Nephite "reformed Egyptian" writings, no old world large seed barley (BoM claims that the Lehites brought their old world seeds with them) and no evidence the book of Mormon "prophets" ever existed.
There is zero archaeological, anthropological, topological, linguistic, or DNA evidence to support the Book of Mormon. It would be impossible for highly advanced civilizations (Jaredites, Nephites) with millions of people to have vanished off the face of the earth. The whole face of the land had become covered with buildings” (Mormon 1:7) “Two million Jaredites slain” (Ether 15:2) 38 cities are catalogued in the Book of Mormon, along with iron, steel, brass, metal swords, breast-plates, shields, armor, or chariots. Yet, not one item mentioned in the Book of Mormon has ever been discovered in America.
The Book of Mormon speaks of sheep, swine, goats, wheat, silk and wool clothing and elephants existing in the Americas when they did not. 1 Ne. 13:7; Alma 4:6; Ether 9:17 and 10:24 Though they were brought to America centuries later by Europeans in post-Columbian times. Again we see that Joseph Smith was thinking about things in his current day as he was fabricating the Book of Mormon.
CAN WE TRUST OUR HEARTS AS TO THE TRUTH OF THE BOOK OF MORMON since there is no evidence?
Maroni chapter 10:4 says: "he will manifest the truth of it unto you" But: THE BIBLE WARNS YOU about trusting your own heart. Jeremiah 17:9 "the heart is deceitful above all things". Proverbs 28:26 "He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool." Please don't be a fool. But TEST everything; hold fast what is good. 1 Thes 5:21
The entire belief system and premise of Mormonism is based on a false claim the Bible was corrupted and "plain and precious parts" were removed by early Christian translators sometime after the apostles had all died. This is a very dangerous claim to make against the word of God, especially since God promised us his word would never pass away. (Isaiah 40:8; Psalms 100:5; Matthew 16:18, 24:35; 1 Peter 1:23-25).
An Objective Test of the Bible and Book of Mormon
The Claim: In the Book of Mormon, the prophet Nephi has a vision the Bible was corrupted after the 12 apostles preached it and after the formation of the “great and abominable church” (1 Nephi 13:26-29). Most Mormons believe this to be the Catholic Church which was formed early in the 4th century. Nephi claims this church was founded by the Devil to lead souls to hell (1 Nephi 14:3). So let’s objectively examine both the Bible and the Book of Mormon to be fair and test if any have errors.
Bible: The earliest Dead Sea Scrolls have been historically dated by three different dating techniques to as early as 350 BC. Included in this discovery was the Great Isaiah Scroll, which is the oldest known complete copy of the Book of Isaiah and is dated to approximately 200 BC. Study the dead sea scrolls which are over 2,000 years old and see if they have Joseph Smith's uncorrupted version. They should if Joseph Smith was correct and the bible had been corrupted over time but, no they do not.
They are the same today as they were over 2,100 years ago with only minor spelling or punctuation differences. Joseph Smith was wrong. The bible had not been corrupted. This scroll could not have been touched by the Catholics. Also this scroll is a Jewish production, and the Book of Mormon claims that the Jews had the Scriptures in their "purity".
LDS Apologist Wayne Ham was forced to the conclusion that the Isaiah scroll does not support the text in the Book of Mormon. Mormon apologist Dr. Sidney B. Sperry, of Brigham Young University, had to admit that the Dead Sea Scrolls do not help the case for the Book of Mormon but uphold the validity of the bible.
IS THE GOD OF THE BOOK OF MORMON THE SAME ONE AS IN THE BIBLE?
"Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.” (Isaiah 43:10) If Mormonism is true, then God could not make the claim that there were no gods before him, for he was just a man at one point; nor could he claim that no gods would come after him, for that is the goal of every member of the LDS church. Like Joseph Smith this was also the goal of Satan, to be like God and have worshippers. "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God ... I will be like the Most High”’ (Isaiah 14:12-14)
The new testament has not been corrupted either. Take for example John 1:1 a very important verse than Smith changed to make Jesus a created being. A papyri known as the Bodmer Papyri which is almost 1900 years old of the book large parts of John. (this papyri was written not long after the apostle John died)
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΚΑΙ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΗΝ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΝ ΘΕΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΘΕΟΣ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ
John 1:1 Joseph Smith translation: "In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God." See the obvious blasphemous changes. Also, there are 4,000 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament in whole or in part. The best of these go back to somewhere about AD 350 and none support Joseph Smith's claims that the bible of today has been corrupted.
Considerable fragments remain of papyrus copies of books of the New Testament dated from 100 to 200 years earlier still and show that the new testament we have is reliable. (The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable? Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1967 (Leicester: Inter-Varsity Press, 1960) pp. 15-17
In the LDS Church’s 147th General Conference, General Authority Bernard P. Brockbank stated that the Christ followed by the Mormons is not the Christ followed by traditional Christianity. He explains: It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons…. (The Ensign, May 1977, p. 26)
I post this in love. The manuscript and archeological evidence for the bible is the greatest of anything in antiquity. I pray that you know the real Jesus, real peace, love and true salvation. "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Galatians 1 And, Matthew 24:24 warns us that Satan will send false prophets and Satan poses as an angel of light! 2 Corinthians 11:14
There is no way for the Biblical account of Jesus to arrive at the account of the Book of Mormon. Mormons have been taught that the bible was corrupted. I hope to open eyes that God is much greater than the humanoid that you have been told about. He is the creator of all creation not just this solar system. Jesus said all scripture shall not fade away but "many wolves in sheep's clothing" and false prophets will come and try to add to the word. Mathew 7:15
It pains my heart to see Mormons fall for the lie that Satan first told Adam and Eve that we can be like the most high. Genesis 3:3-5 Joseph Smith sold the same lie.
I'm a member of Tue Church Of Jesus Christ LDS. I have respect for everyone & their Religious beliefs & Faith💙🙏💙 The call to Allah is absolutely beautiful! Blessings to all.
even tho i never had a faith crisis, this channel has helped me know the history of the church in a way that i would not know how to learn it or even have time for it. This channel is amazing, thank you saints unscripted, you guys are amazing!
Thank you for your support!!
I fully agree with you! I’m in the same boat.
Thanks man! Thanks for watching.
One part of the bible that I love is how history shows it true and I try and read up on all knew discoveries. I was elated to study the dead sea scrolls found in Qumran which showed beyond any doubt that the old testament had not been corrupted as 1 Nephi chapter 13 said: "the loss of many plain and precious parts of the bible" had occurred.
This is why Nephi said there was the need for "the restoration of the gospel, the coming forth of latter-day scripture". 1 Nephi 13: 26 says "after .. the twelve apostles of the Lamb, ... the formation of that great and abominable church, ... for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the lamb many parts which are plain and most precious". The notes at the bottom say Nephi made this prophesy between 600 and 592 B.C. Then 1 Nephi 13:30 says: "because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel ... Satan hath great power over them". Then, 1 Nephi 14:3 says because of this "the devil... lead away the souls of men down to hell".
But the dead sea scrolls proved this prophecy is false as the scrolls found in cave 1 show that the old testament we have is not corrupted like Nephi said. And the other caves have proven this also with more books of the old testament. Jesus said he was the "word" of God and was one with the Father (not a previous humanoid) as a false prophet would say. God bless you.
I testify that plain and precious things were taken out, and what were they? None other than the doctrine of Christ. In John 1:25, what did the pharisees ask him? They asked “Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?” Why do you think this is important? Conventional christianity would have you believe that the doctrine of Christ came about during the time of Christ. Tell me where is there evidence of this doctrine in the Old Testament? And if not found, why then did these Pharisees essentially ask “who gave you authority?” instead of asking “ what are you doing?” If the doctrine of Christ was never taught to ancient Israel, why was Jesus or any of his apostles never challenged by what they were doing in the sense of knowing where they were getting these teachings from? Paul, being born a Pharisee himself never had a problem teaching Christ to the early Christians who were Jew, why? Because they knew. And the Book of Mormon is evidence of that. That's why Nephi spoke about it with boldness. The book of Mormon is true, I testify that it is.
@@brettpinion4233
I love you David... You are an authentic and Good person.
I LOVE Saints Unscripted! 🔥
Thank you for all your awesome fair, informative content! I love how you don’t get nasty or angry towards the anti-folks.
You rock! ☀️💕
Thanks :)
@@SaintsUnscripted HI David where can I watch your video about saints moving to Utah that contradicts that Zion New Jerusalem in Missouri?
@@kuyalemsMissouri will still be the new Jerusalem in the millenium. Utah HQ will move out there.
@@DBPCINCWasn't that supposed to happen during Joes time?
I’ve recently stepped away from being LDS, I suppose I’m in the complexity phase unsure what’s next! I watched this original as well. I appreciate how level headed your response is and of course some bias is there with both parties but I always enjoy seeing both points of view! You’re definitely the best host of the Saints Unscripted to watch!
Thank you!
Do you know why dna shows american indians are not of jewish ancestry? Do you know why archeology shows the book of mormon is historically false? Do you know why horses and cows and things like chariots and even the wheel were not in america when the book of mormon says they were? The list is endless. Yet the bible is proven true by archeology almost monthly in the middle east.
Step into the light and truth found in God's proven Word, the Bible, especially the Book of Galatians and Ephesians. As the whole New Testament will help you become free from sin and have certainty of a true relationship with God and find true peace and hope.
Good for you, asking the tough questions. May you find your answers and peace.
I'm so so so so so grateful that your channel exists!
Thanks for your support!
It is pretty great :)
We're grateful you watch it!
I don’t apologize for the restoration I own the history rejoice in its divine nature.
As someone who’s had a faith crisis and is very skeptical, I don’t need another ex Mormon to be the one to explain history. I’m sure he’s done his research, but I really don’t get people who have left for years and still decide to dedicate hours and days and even years to try to prove a religion wrong. In fact it just shows me that he has not healed in a lot of ways. I know a lot of ex Mormons who really are content living life and moving on. But I guess this is the content that brings money and views.
Of course he is miserable and money comes in to play. Your friends have not moved on I bet they are part of an ex mormon community and roam the internet bashing the church.
Exactly. I totally agree that he has not healed. I think the reason so many can’t let it go is because it was such a part of their lives. They probably had lots of family and leaders pressuring them a lot so that doesn’t really go away when they leave because they still feel like they have to prove something. Truthfully, I see this more as a people problem than a gospel problem, but that’s something they have to find themselves.
@@jabulani22shepo61 I don’t entirely agree with that. I have family who left the church around the time I was born. They do have their disagreements with the church and have been open about them but for the most part, they really aren’t obsessed with proving anyone wrong or talking about how bad it is. If anything, they actually recognize a lot of the good about church and have attended church meetings with us even when they were definitely out. They know that it has a lot of meaning to their loved ones and they recognize that meaning and embrace it. Maybe there’s a lot they don’t talk about but for the most part, I really don’t think they go to ex Mormon communities and talk trash. They live pretty busy and fulfilling lives and I would be really surprised if they actually spend time doing that.
I think I this is something I’ve observed: they claim the church is binary and dogmatic. But when people leave they leave and it’s allllll out. They still have the “dogmatic” in them. They are in fact being binary in their decisions. Not gonna lie. Im sure Johnny is a great guy but his eyes…his stare is really hollow and he doesn’t transmit any peace.
Because it’s false doctrine and we must tear it down.
It reminds me of putting together a puzzle that we only have some of the pieces for and making a monster with the puzzle pieces rather than putting together the pieces in the order and way they are supposed to go.
Oh, it's that guy. The guy that left the church and, at the time, claimed to have no hard feelings, and he was all good.
Brigham Young was right, they leave the church, but can't leave the church alone!
No hard feelings. But I'm going to use my very large following to keep publishing videos about my former church in a negative light LOL
He spent years of his life, and probably many thousands of dollars to the church- how could anyone leave the church and just walk away without strong emotions after so many years of investment? It’s pretty unselfaware when I see members of the church make this argument.
It's a two way street. Depending on the family is someone chooses to leave the church they'll have family pressure them to come back. Lots of members who leave would not want to justify their position, but when prodded they feel they have no choice but to have to explain why. Inversely, when my dad investigated the church, he wanted to leave the methodist church in peace but his family pressured him to come back. He didn't want to stir the pot, but because of their consistent efforts he felt the need to bear his testimony. I think if both parties were respectful of one another's beliefs, these videos or ex-mormon content wouldn't exist
@katieedwards6444 That's fair, I can see that point of view, if someone resents paying tithing for example. But it sounds like he came out earlier saying he left with no hard feelings.
@@katieedwards6444I doubt that's what it is. He just wants to sound smart because he thinks he has "cracked" the Latter Day Saints.
A really cool detail left out in this video is in Joseph Smith’s translating was that he couldn’t even pronounce some of the words he would have to spell them out to the scribes
Do any of you guys know why some people say no one really saw the plates? I heard that on an interview with David Archuleta’s mom
So, this comes from the 3 and 8 witnesses. The 3 witnesses claim they were not shown the physical plates, but an angel showed them. The 8 witnesses did indeed testify that they saw the physical plates.
David, you reacted to this is so much empathy, patience, and tact.
I'm failing to see the empathy, patience, and tact...
@@Compulsive-Elk7103agree, it gave me a headache at how defensive he was every 3 seconds.
BEAUTIFUL explanation of simplicity beyond complexity......Push through it! Study, pray, humble ourselves, be willing to discover and hope and then it's revealed....Johnny absolutely stopped...I feel for him as well, but maybe sooner or later he will try and push through that complexity and see the simple beauty of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. Plural marriage will be explained to us in about 30 seconds in the next life and we will go...oh, now I get it. The complexity is real, it's tough to overcome and the adversary is literally hell bent on messing with us and ruining our faith in JESUS CHRIST...because it's really all about growing our faith in him. Great video David!
How ironic I'm listening to this a second time how ironic that Johnny says Joseph Smith found audience in doing so... From what I can see, Johnny has found audience in doing so.
Exactly, Johnny the prophet. leading those astray and giving validation with inaccurate facts.
Johnny the profit seeker, not Johnny the prophet seeker!
...He found his audience while working at VOX where he wasn't really allowed to speak on his beliefs. He posted that kind of content on HIS channel. Then, of course, he left VOX and started his own youtuber journalism channel which is when it began popping off. He isn't famous because he used to be in the church, that's just a quirky fact about him. He's famous because he does deep dives into global political conflict, completely removed of any sort of religious bias. In fact, when he posted that video his most popular videos were about mcdonalds ice cream machines, why people think the world is flat, and the man putin fears the most, with 7.3, 4.7, and 3.9 million views respectively. He also had almost 1.5 million subs too.. Point is, you'd either have to be stupid or be arguing in bad faith to say he got his fame from abandoning the church.
Thank you for taking the time to do this. It’s always needed in this online world of information.
Look. I'm not sure if the start of his video is where this reaction started but can anyone living in this moment say that they know Joseph Smith well? If that is how he starts then the rest of his video probably continues down the same track. Even if he has read all of the Joseph Smith papers he is not in position to make this claim and him doing so leads to a very large eye roll for me right out of the gate. No man knows my history....
Well done! Also, it's misleading when he says Joseph kept it a secret until 1823. He told his father the next day, and soon after, he also shared it with a Methodist preacher who consequently treated him with "great contempt". So by 1823, essentially everyone knew by word of mouth and rumor that Joseph had seen a vision. (my widows mite haha)
It was bugging me that he said that too! It's literally in his first vision account.
That's not true, he told people about the plates but he didn't mention the first vision before he wrote it down in 1832. Isn't it curious that no one (not even his family or anti mormons) knew about the first vision until many years after it allegedly happened?
@@dr33776 Thank you, it’s not explicit that he told his Father (that was about the plates in 1823), but according to his account, it's pretty clear that he didn't wait until 1823 or 1832, and was open about it. And the chance that he didn’t tell those closest to him would be very unlikely:
JS_H 1:21 “Some few days after I had this vision, I happened to be in company with one of the Methodist preachers...and...took occasion to give him an account of the vision which I had had...”
JS_H 1:22 “I soon found, however, that my telling the story had excited a great deal of prejudice against me among professors of religion, and was the cause of great persecution…”
So yes, if that false claim was true, it would indeed be suspicious, hence why Johnny said it.
@jaredjensen3937 I mean, if you take as gospel his 1838 account, there's nothing that can dissuade you to consider that he retrofitted and exaggerated his visions as he saw fit. There are clear contradictions between his 1832 account and later versions of the first vision. Why would you give more weight to a late account than the first and only one written by his own hand? If he told the methodist preacher about it and suffered persecution, why was everyone unaware of the first vision? The first "anti mormon" book mormonism unvailed goes hard after the smiths, talking about seer stones, trasure digging, being lazy, drunks, cheaters, etc. yet not a single mention of the first vision. Not a single mention of a vision by Alexander Campbell. The unedited lucy mack smith biography does not mention a first vision. There was no religious excitement in palmyra in 1820. His family joined the Presbyterian church AFTER Alvin dies, so that messes the chronology as the revival would've taken place in 1824, when he was 18 and after moroni allegedly visited him in September 1823.
@@dr33776 wait, you’re assuming since the chronological ordering doesn’t add up that this makes everything invalid??? I know in your mind you think that makes this whole story false, but I’m a little shocked this would be the basis of your doubts. The idea that everything should have been documented from day one, in the meantime, the smith family had no idea what the outcome would be for many years after, makes a ton more sense why things weren’t well documented back then. If it was, I’d probably have way more doubts. That would seem way more suspicious…
Great reaction video David! I agree with your summary of Johnny’s video. Great production value, clearly biased from his opinion on the church. Johnny has a habit of claiming objective perspective in his videos, but this one is especially easy to see that it’s not objective at all.
Thanks for your comment!
Active member here. I'm enjoying your channel and appreciate the approach you took with this video! A couple observations:
- He's actually correct in stating the Land Bountiful was likely in present-day Oman. The site isn't far from the border with Yemen.
- I don't know that I'd agree it was a mistake to destroy the Nauvoo Expositor, but I can understand the logic.
I'm sure you are aware, Pastor Jeff from Hello Saints did a reaction video to this guy's "Why I left the Mormon church" video. Have you addressed these things with him? I'm curious how that went/goes.
I have not spoken to Jeff about these Johnny Harris videos, no. Would definitely be an interesting conversation, though!
You can make anything sound weird and twist the feeling surrounding something by adding weird music and tones like Johnny used. It would be fun to see how much it would change Johnny’s video if the music and sounds were changed to not be so weird
That also goes the same way with the way the church creates their own videos. One could argue that the church makes things seem more holy or spiritual than they really are. It's simply the nature of the beast
@@jonbaker476 "One could argue that the church makes things seem more holy or spiritual than they really are."
After a while it becomes conspicuous. ;-)
I'm going to write a book on what Johnny Harris really believes.
Well put 😂😂😂😂😂😂
I just hope he’s not related to Martin!
No one would buy it from you
😂😂😂
@@Compulsive-Elk7103 that's kinda the point
Quite frankly I do think that learning the gospel would probably be hard for me to believe if someone just explained it to me, but that’s not why I started going to church. I was going through a hard time and I was confused. I prayed and received an answer for myself. I started going to church and I’ve never felt a joy inside like I do now.
People can say anything they want to me about what to believe, but that experience has changed me ❤ D&C 9:8-9
I am so grateful you did this video. I saw that he posted this video, and I saw his original video. I have been studying church history for 15 years now, and it's incredibly frustrating to me to hear him misrepresent the gospel and its history. I feel more at peace hearing you along for the ride, because I was interested in what he had to say, but it makes it bearable with your meek, logical and humble commentary.
One part of the bible that I love is how history shows it true and I try and read up on all knew discoveries. I was elated to study the dead sea scrolls found in Qumran which showed beyond any doubt that the old testament had not been corrupted as 1 Nephi chapter 13 said: "the loss of many plain and precious parts of the bible" had occurred.
This is why Nephi said there was the need for "the restoration of the gospel, the coming forth of latter-day scripture". 1 Nephi 13: 26 says "after .. the twelve apostles of the Lamb, ... the formation of that great and abominable church, ... for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the lamb many parts which are plain and most precious". The notes at the bottom say Nephi made this prophesy between 600 and 592 B.C. Then 1 Nephi 13:30 says: "because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel ... Satan hath great power over them". Then, 1 Nephi 14:3 says because of this "the devil... lead away the souls of men down to hell".
But the dead sea scrolls proved this prophecy is false as the scrolls found in cave 1 show that the old testament we have is not corrupted like Nephi said. And the other caves have proven this also with more books of the old testament. Jesus said he was the "word" of God and was one with the Father (not a previous humanoid) as a false prophet would say. God bless you.
“We believe in the in the Bible to be the word of God so long as it is translated correctly.” The Old Testament is one of our standard works. I don’t see the jump in logic that finding the dead scrolls equals that the Old Testament is *perfectly* translated or that it would discount the validity of the Book of Mormon. In fact, there are variabilities within the Dead Sea scrolls that don’t perfectly match the Bible and some groups believe this disproves all of Christianity “lore”. The Book of Mormon would not exist without the Old Testament and both are cherished in the gospel. But again, logic alone is not enough to establish a relationship with Christ and understand his doctrine seeing as there is much controversy surrounding the Dead Sea scrolls as well.
Joseph Smith did not translate the bible. He did not look at the original Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic. He looked at the KJV of the bible only (English and he added or deleted in English to it).
Study the dead sea scrolls which are over 2,000 years old and see if they have Joseph Smith's uncorrupted version. They should if Joseph Smith was correct and the bible had been corrupted over time but, no they do not. They are the same today as they were over 2,100 years ago with only minor spelling or punctuation differences. Joseph Smith was wrong. The bible had not been corrupted.
Joseph Smith made it clear and said "I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt"; Joseph Smith History 1:19
Study the dead sea scrolls found in Qumran which showed beyond any doubt that the old testament had not been corrupted as 1 Nephi chapter 13 said: "the loss of many plain and precious parts of the bible" had occurred. This is why Nephi said there was the need for "the restoration of the gospel, the coming forth of latter-day scripture". 1 Nephi 13: 26 says "after .. the twelve apostles of the Lamb, ... the formation of that great and abominable church, ... for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the lamb many parts which are plain and most precious". The notes at the bottom say Nephi made this prophesy between 600 and 592 B.C. Then 1 Nephi 13:30 says: "because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel ... Satan hath great power over them". Then, 1 Nephi 14:3 says because of this "the devil... lead away the souls of men down to hell". But the dead sea scrolls proved this prophecy is false as the scrolls found in cave 1 show the that the old testament we have is not corrupted like Nephi said. And the other caves have proven this also with more books of the old testament.
The new testament has not been either take for example John 1:1 a very important verse than Smith changed to make Jesus a created being.
A papyri known as the Bodmer Papyri which is almost 1900 years old. (note that this was written not long after the apostle John would have died and it shows joseph smith changed the book of John, not that it got corrupted later as he alleged)
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΚΑΙ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΗΝ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΝ ΘΕΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΘΕΟΣ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ
The manuscript contains John 1:1-6:11, 6:35b-14:26, 29-30; 15:2-26; 16:2-4, 6-7; 16:10-20:20, 22-23; 20:25-21:9, 12, 17. It is one of the oldest well-preserved New Testament manuscripts known to exist. Its original editor assigned the codex to the early third century, or around AD 200, on the basis of the style of handwriting in the codex.[1] Herbert Hunger later claimed that the handwriting should be dated to an earlier period in the middle or early part of the second century.
Mormons have been taught that the bible was corrupted. I hope to open eyes that God is much greater than the humanoid that you have been told about. He is the alpha and omega of all creation not just this solar system. God is omnipotent and Jesus said all scripture shall not fade away but many wolves and false prophets will come and try to add to the word. It pains my heart to see mormons fall for the lie that satan first told adam and eve that we can be like the most high. Joseph Smith sold the same lie. He changed John 1:1 and added many things to the bible that were not there originally. The thousands of parchments and scrolls found from ancient time prove he was a false prophet and the word of God has been preserved and is reliable and it was Joseph Smith that falsely "translated" it. I say this in love.
Im sorry, where exactly did he misrepresent the gospel or history? I also am an armchair historian of Mormon history and while I did get hung up in one or two places, he’s generally correct from my research.
His video was more than fair towards the lds faith. If anything he was holding way back. That was a very kind video from someone who respects his family and loved ones who still belong to the church. Because the lds church has an endless supply of dirty laundry, he could have chose to air out in this video if he was trying to make the church look bad.
Unless you accept Johnny's syrup sweet voiced setup none of this makes any sense. BTW Joseph Smith Sr. Was deeply religious, holding devotionals twice a day that neighbors made a point to attend. He simply was not swayed by the preachers of the day.
And people hated him for being right. The church remains true. Joseph Smith was right!
Very ironic of you to say that his video makes no sense
@@Yeayaz Not at all... but then, I don't expect that you are very discerning. 😆
@@paulblack1799 you can believe in your made up story all you want, just don’t go about criticizing others for making no sense when you actually believe that stuff Joseph smith did
- B.H. Roberts, Studies of the Book of Mormon, pg. 240 : "Did Ethan Smith's View of the Hebrews furnish structural material for Joseph Smith's Book of Mormon? It has been pointed out in these pages that there are many things in the former book that might well have suggested many major things in the other. Not a few things merely, one or two, or half dozen, but many; and it is this fact of many things of similarity and the cumulative force of them that makes them so serious a menace to Joseph Smith's story of the Book of Mormon's origin."
So many great points to consider in this response. It's not always easy to sort through these questions. I had never heard of the Hafen's talk around faith starting with simplicity, then moving to complexity, then back to simplicity but I have experienced that on some level myself. The word that comes to my mind from multiple stories in the scriptures is "wrestle" (Enos in the Book of Mormon, Jacob in the Old Testament). Faith is not always without a struggle. Complexity and not having a perfect knowledge can cause us to have to wrestle. Some of my most challenging times where I have had to wrestle with God to come to an understanding have been the most rewarding. I think the wrestle is necessary for increasing spiritual growth. In my experience, that wrestle has been the stepping stone for increased faith and a catalyst for coming to better understand who God is. Without some complexity I would have less reason to turn to God to find answers and to turn to him with more diligence and focus and a willingness to learn. In my experience he has provided clarity, peace and answers on difficult subjects but they have generally not come until I have that wrestle before him.
Do you know why dna shows american indians are not of jewish ancestry? Do you know why archeology shows the book of mormon is historically false? Do you know why horses and cows and things like chariots and even the wheel were not in america when the book of mormon says they were? The list is endless. Yet the bible is proven true by archeology almost monthly in the middle east.
Great reaction video! Reminds me of what Elder Holland says about how there will be times when we will be called to defend our faith and that is the time when we will need to be courageous and courteous. And you were both! And I will also add that you were very compassionate, exactly how a disciple of Jesus Christ would respond.
I also cringed every time you did when Johnny implied that those who choose to be faithful are brainwashed. I totally agree that we are all presented with the same information but just exercising our agency to come to conclusions that our differing degrees of faith brings us to. Thank you for this video! Keep up the great work!
Talk to Wayne May about what he has found and what he knows about the Book of Mormon
Fair Mormon has debunked Wayne may. Google it. His theories are interesting but not credible. Definitely not supported by the maxwell institute either.
David, thanks for your reaction video.
Also, thanks to Saints Unscripted over all these years. Your always giving me the assurance in these types of topics/videos that there's more than just what the critics say. That I can make an honest choice/argument for the restoration and this church and to stay.
Looking forward to meeting ya'll at the Gather Together Conference this Saturday!
Thanks for being here!!
See you there!
The complexity of the Book of Mormon is astounding. Going back and forth between narrative/commentator past/present. I want a count of how many references prophesy or reference something that happens later in the book successfully. For instance The reference to the jaredites in Omni and then Ether. Gadianton in Helaman and then Mormon and Moroni. There are a lot.
It is really not that complex. If it were then why was there so much confusion about when Christ would return. Lehi and his family knew almost to the day when He was going to return but the prophets in the middle did not. It is because it was all made up and then the beginning had to be made up again when the first 116 pages were lost. Joseph's peep stones were all apparently in the shop getting a tune up or he would have been able to see where those pages were or what had happened to them. They could also not work to re-translate those lost pages which is why it is such a big mess. He goes from story line to story line. Once he is done with a character he does not go back.
I've been waiting so long for a response to Johnny! You guys should really do his earlier videos too!
You did great responding David! Gracious approach. Thank you for taking the time to do so 😊
Thanks for being here!
Come on you all! LDS is such horrific deception from Satan. How in the world do you fall for this nonsense?
Everyone is on their own spiritual journey. Just because you grew up in one faith path does not mean that you'll be on that faith path for the rest of your life. Spiritual Growth happens at its own pace for every individual. Choosing any faith as an adult is really important. I am pretty sure that as a historian an objective historical perspective does exist regarding the social, culture and historical facts of Joesph smith life e.g he was born, he had a leg operation, he had his 1st vision age 14 years old and he was murdered on etc etc. An objective historial perspective can't not be used to tell you if Mose talked to burning bush which was God, or if Jesus really heal a blind man, or if Peter heal the sick, or if the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was visited by the angel Jibril (Gabriel), or if Nephi really saw an angel, or if Siddhartha really got enlightened, or if Gurū Nānak age 30 disappear for 3 days and came back with divine revelation, or if a 14 year old boy saw Jesus and God while praying. Those experiences are beyond human history. But what these experience all have in common is that the divine gives revelation to one person at the time in a quiet spaces away from others. Spiritually is life long journey not a race.
Best time I ever spent was in wading through the 1977 seven volume History of the Church, including the footnotes. Nothing better than reading the words of those going through something written while they were going through it.
B.H. Roberts did a notoriously botched job at compiling that history. Lindsay Hansen Park and Bryan Buchanan did an amazing job going over the history of that set.
I have compassion for him as you can genuinely see that he's grieving his once deeply felt beliefs. My heart aches for my brother. Hoping he can come out the other side, but if not, I know he is SO LOVED by His Saviour and Heavenly Father. They know how he is feeling. They understand his dilemmas and his conclusion.
I'm atheist, raised evangelical Christian. I relate a lot to what Johnny says about grieving his loss of belief.
I enjoyed Johnny's video, but I was hoping I would see a reaction from an active member of the LDS church. I don't know much about Mormonism. It's not something I ever had much exposure to. Thank you for this video. It gave me a lot to think about.
If it means anything, I’ve had an undeniable witness from the Spirit that this is the true restored gospel on the Earth today. And when I mean undeniable, I mean even if it meant death I would not deny it. Call me insane, but I know the experience I had and I can tell you about if you would like :)
Even more than that, I know that Jesus Christ loves each and everyone of us. Heavenly Father has made that clear many times to me. I also know that he hears and answers our prayers. We have to have unshakeable faith that he will answer us, even if the answer isn’t what we expected. He knows what answers are best for us, which path is the perfect path for us because he lived the perfect path and led the perfect example.
In my experience members in the LDS church have a very poor understanding of epistemology and what constitutes "knowledge", or what is commonly known as justified, true belief. 'Certainty' is how we _feel_ about our beliefs, but it is not justification for their veracity. People can put their lives on the line for false beliefs and it's unfortunate to see happen. It is _very_ important to make sure you have the facts of a matter before committing your life or becoming emotionally invested into something.
The Kolob hymn is my favorite! More because I like the tune, I havent thought about the words much, but I hope they dont get rid of it
On my mission we had an investigator come to church for the first time and this hymn was sung that day. He read carefully every word and thought it super interesting... He did join the church and was a great member.
Really appreciate you taking this on and reacting in a sensible fair way. Ultimately it relies on faith and His spirit to know the truth. Nothing can ever be proven, even the Bible. Thanks for all you do to encourage LDS members to continue in faith even with difficult questions that they don’t fully understand, with certain teachings and doctrines. To be patient and long suffering and that the answers will come by His source. We need more people like you to stand up and to stay strong to the most beautiful thing that the God has to offer which is the Restoration of His Church and Kingdom that is everlasting. A faith that requires something of you, your heart and by doing so not only do you want to change but you want to be more like Him, not only to be happy in this life but to truly know and love Him. It truly is a beautiful thing. I just went to Palmyra for the first time. I already knew in my heart it was true. I asked myself, “what would I gain?” “What would I learn that I didn’t already know?” And when I approached Joseph’s little humble home and the path leading to the Sacred Grove, I knew. There was no doubt. That’s all we need to know. Been following you for quite a while. Keep it up man. Thanks brother!
One part of the bible that I love is how history shows it true and I try and read up on all knew discoveries. I was elated to study the dead sea scrolls found in Qumran which showed beyond any doubt that the old testament had not been corrupted as 1 Nephi chapter 13 said: "the loss of many plain and precious parts of the bible" had occurred.
This is why Nephi said there was the need for "the restoration of the gospel, the coming forth of latter-day scripture". 1 Nephi 13: 26 says "after .. the twelve apostles of the Lamb, ... the formation of that great and abominable church, ... for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the lamb many parts which are plain and most precious". The notes at the bottom say Nephi made this prophesy between 600 and 592 B.C. Then 1 Nephi 13:30 says: "because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel ... Satan hath great power over them". Then, 1 Nephi 14:3 says because of this "the devil... lead away the souls of men down to hell".
But the dead sea scrolls proved this prophecy is false as the scrolls found in cave 1 show that the old testament we have is not corrupted like Nephi said. And the other caves have proven this also with more books of the old testament. Jesus said he was the "word" of God and was one with the Father (not a previous humanoid) as a false prophet would say. God bless you.
I’m so grateful for this channel, I watched his video and had very similar thoughts. The fact that he portrays everything from a “more enlightened” position is ridiculous. I can understand coming to different conclusions, but his conclusion is not anymore enlightened or better than ours.
Mormonism isn't Christianity, stop. It's just a caricature of it, much like Gnosticism
"but his conclusion is not anymore enlightened or better than ours."
That is *pride* talking. "I was stupid, now I am smart!" And in a year or two or ten, suddenly he will be smarter yet.
@@baonemogomotsi7138 "Mormonism isn't Christianity"
What a relief! Knowing the answer to simple questions is a relief. Knowing to whom Jesus prayed, for starters.
@@thomasmaughan4798Typical Mormon coherence. Read your Bible, pray every day, and find God. Of course cultists wouldn't understand why but may The Lord help you.
@@baonemogomotsi7138 "Typical Mormon coherence. Read your Bible, pray every day, and find God."
For me the sequence was somewhat the other way round. I found God or more precisely he found me, then I found and read the Book of Mormon and it answered many questions, then I read the bible. I prayed as often as needed.
"may The Lord help you."
Thank you; he has.
I'm so sad to hear his disbelief. Good luck when you meet God for the judgement.
43:43 regarding destroying the printing press - the context is needed here. Remember that Joseph Smith is just fresh from the experience of being victimized by mob violence and thrown in prison. Johnny said that 'Joseph was himself becoming militant'. This just isn't true. He was desperately trying to prevent mob violence, which is also why he came back across the river and gave himself up. He wanted to prevent the militia from turning violent on the Mormons.
This kind of this like this Johnny's video happens so often on TH-cam. People think they can get to the bottom of everything in a short time because of google, without even looking for arguments for the possibility they aren't considering, and they make a cinematic video about it claiming they have the absolute knowledge and thinking they are both Neil Degrasse Tyson and Morgan Freeman at the same time.
😊Thank you for your review and discussion. As a new Convert (LDS), these issues are important. The explanation of the spiritual issues involved in the treasure hunting, releasing those who had buried the treasure, and then to put those resources to good use, to actually help people in need.
One part of the bible that I love is how history shows it true and I try and read up on all knew discoveries. I was elated to study the dead sea scrolls found in Qumran which showed beyond any doubt that the old testament had not been corrupted as 1 Nephi chapter 13 said: "the loss of many plain and precious parts of the bible" had occurred.
This is why Nephi said there was the need for "the restoration of the gospel, the coming forth of latter-day scripture". 1 Nephi 13: 26 says "after .. the twelve apostles of the Lamb, ... the formation of that great and abominable church, ... for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the lamb many parts which are plain and most precious". The notes at the bottom say Nephi made this prophesy between 600 and 592 B.C. Then 1 Nephi 13:30 says: "because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel ... Satan hath great power over them". Then, 1 Nephi 14:3 says because of this "the devil... lead away the souls of men down to hell".
But the dead sea scrolls proved this prophecy is false as the scrolls found in cave 1 show that the old testament we have is not corrupted like Nephi said. And the other caves have proven this also with more books of the old testament. Jesus said he was the "word" of God and was one with the Father (not a previous humanoid) as a false prophet would say. God bless you.
Do you know why dna shows american indians are not of jewish ancestry? Do you know why archeology shows the book of mormon is historically false? Do you know why horses and cows and things like chariots and even the wheel were not in america when the book of mormon says they were? The list is endless. Yet the bible is proven true by archeology almost monthly in the middle east.
@@brettpinion4233 "Jesus said he was the "word" of God and was one with the Father"
To whom did Jesus pray?
@@thomasmaughan4798 I encourage bible study to find these answers. God bless. I hope this helps as your question seems to be aimed at the deity of Christ when he was on the earth. It is a good question that the bible does answer:
Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.
First, remember Joseph Smith did not translate the bible. He looked at the KJV and not at the original Greek which is helpful when you are doing an in-depth bible study like you are (which is great).
Second, when you study scripture you must study scripture with other scripture and Philippines may answer part of your question if you are asking was Jesus god and man.
Philippines 2:5
In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death- even death on a cross!
Philippines was addressing the deity of Jesus whereas Luke was writing that Jesus' humanity was legitimate-it was complete (Luke 2:19).
Like any other human being, He matured both physically and mentally. That included growing in physical ways, as well as learning and increasing His earthly knowledge. Jesus' experience of life on earth was the same as for any other man, other than His complete lack of sin (Hebrews 4:15. 1 Peter 2:22).
He was not born with an instant ability to walk, speak, or build furniture. He learned as children learn. He grew as children grow.
The word "wisdom" (σοφια in Greek) refers to mental and moral insights, prudence and understanding. What this word affirms is that Jesus, who was already well above anything expected of his peers (Luke 2:47 “And all who heard him were amazed at his understanding and his answers.”) continued to develop in wisdom to the point that 18 years later he was ready to accomplish the mission set before him (Luke 3:23 and 4:1).
"Stature" (ηλικια in Greek) is a word that takes into account a combination of age and size to reflect that physically, Jesus grew in size like any human being would.
"Favor" (χαρις in Greek and the same word that is translated “grace”) is a term of acceptance. At this point Jesus was being accepted, was favorable to both God and man. However, later he will certainly be accepted by God but rejected by man.
The writer of Hebrews reflected on it this way, “For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin” (Hebrews 4:15 ESV).
The same writer also said, “Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered. And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him” (Hebrews 5:8-9 ESV).
In Philippians 2, we learn that when Jesus Christ came in the flesh, He gave up, He willingly surrendered. He emptied himself of some of what it means to be God. He did not ever become less than God. He was always fully God.
But when He came in the flesh, He wanted to fully experience what it was like to be human, and so He had to give up certain aspects that would interfere with being human. One of these was His omniscience-His knowledge of all things.
These verses also show the deity of Jesus on the earth:
John 8:56-59
“Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.
Colossians 1:15-20
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.
John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Colossians 2:9-10
For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority
Great question
@@thomasmaughan4798 I have one question to please.
Book of Abraham published with 3 facsimiles taken from an ancient papyrus, shown to be a fraud years later. The book is a funerary papyrus showing scenes from the Egyptian Book of the Dead. In Facsimiles Nos. 1 & 3, Smith misidentifies everything depicted.
Do you know why Smith misidentified everything in the funerary papyrus? LDS Church has the papyrus.
Johnny also minimizes Joseph’s murder/martyrdom, and even makes it sound like it was Joseph’s own actions that led to his death. “They shoot at him, and he tries to jump out the window, and he falls to his death”. They didn’t shoot him, they only shot AT him, in his words, which paints a very different picture.
Joseph was murdered. He wasn't even given a trial for his supposed crimes. If we were talking about anyone else it would be a huge injustice, like the Floyd situation a few years ago, but I guess since it is Joseph Smith it is Ok. Not! It was wrong. So much so that the state of Illinois issued an apology to the church for the injustice imposed on him and in which the state of Illinois sat back and did nothing about.
It was his actions that caused him to be murdered, he was not a martyr. He was a criminal who had set up a system of laws designed to protect him and it really got out of hand. When you pass laws that have a sentence of in the Nauvoo city jail for anyone trying to even arrest Joseph Smith what do you think is going to happen? He was very unconcerned with obeying the laws of the land and it showed in his arrogance in flaunting those laws. Had it not been for this and the extremely liberal use of Habeus Corpus in Nauvoo and then destroying a legal and lawful printing press he would have most likely not been taken to jail in another county. As LDS members we have this persecution complex that persists to this day. When you go back and really study the history and realize that most of the problems we had were because we were unwilling to obey the laws of the land you will realize this for yourself. I am still a member and attend my meetings but am probably the world biggest cafeteria mormon. I know that makes Satan happy when we use that term but I grew up and will die as a mormon. The leaders of the church have lied to us about our history for most of the time it has existed. If they would just be honest there would be no need for apologists as there would be nothing in dispute. Why do you think the church spends millions of dollars a year on this? The book of Abraham was written by Joseph Smith NOT Abraham, they know this. The Book of Mormon was written by Joseph Smith, it is not a history of ancient Jews who came here in wooden casks and ships. They know this. They are both great books that can be used to teach and to learn from but they were written by Joseph Smith. He was a religious genius and started a great movement. I love the feeling I have when in church but I also know that no one in the history of the world with the exception of Jesus Christ could ever use a rock to see with. If Joseph could do it then that means that others could and would still be able to do it. Joseph couldn't, none of his peers could do it, no one today can do it. Great story to build faith with but still in the end just a story. I bear you my testimony that Joseph Smith did not "translate" the book of Mormon or the book of Abraham. I know that God did not and will not ever command anyone to practice polygamy. I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.
@@tykempton8562 Ty, thanks for your thoughts and perspective. I'm not sure what a "cafeteria mormon" is or what is meant by "extremely liberal use of Habeus Corpus in Nauvoo", but I think I understand what you are stating with the rest of your perspective. Having said this, I respectfully disagree with pretty much all of your points.
@@haj98 Go back and study the use of Habeus Corpus in Nauvoo and you will see what I meant. Cafeteria mormonism is getting to pick and choose what I find useful in the church teachings and ignoring the other stuff. As an example I find a lot of good in the book of Mormon while not believing that it was "translated" by Joseph. I have a firm testimony that it was written by, and exclusively by Joseph Smith. I get to ignore magical peep stones, etc. and just get to pick and choose what I believe. This has been a great benefit to me as I struggle with how to live a good and fulfilling life. It also prevents me from having a calling in the church which has really allowed me to truly enjoy the Sabbath day without having endless meetings and spending the whole day working instead of focusing on Christ.
@@tykempton8562What is your response to the reality of Paul Gregersen debunking the arrogant Egyptologist opinions against Joseph Smith?
Understanding how these guys operate who preach and teach against the faith online is key. If you can get this, no one, no matter how "intellectual" or "reasoned" or "objective" will be able to lead you astray. (And the more education we have, the better.) The first red flag on Johnny Harris is the name he uses to describe Christ's modern church - in the very title of his video: "Mormon" Church. No, it's The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And he likely knows that the restored Church of Jesus Christ does not identify by that old, tired nickname that obscures who we are - as well as Christ and His Church.
Is this the Church of Jesus Christ or is it not? That is the central question they do not want to directly answer - instead, they go in the side door of your mind in their effort to position things. So in the first place they try to go after the Prophet Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon, with the usual drumbeat list of attack points.
There's not one original thing in Harris's video. It is not just a "personal essay." He's out here trying to persuade, or he wouldn't be here. Let's not ignore the obvious.
And let us not fall for the idea that "objective" reasoning is the best approach to determining truth. Common-sense reasoning, yes. But who is the arbiter of what is "objective" and what is not? As for common sense, it tells me that God and Christ exist, that we are not alone in the universe. The idea that we are temporary organisms that just spring up and live and die and are never heard of again is absurd.
Having established that God must exist, then what is the role of Christ, is He God's Son? Is He the Christ? And from there, would they leave us as individuals alone in this hyper-confused modern world? And if Christ's church existed in the meridian of time, is it also on the earth today? Now there's reasoning...
Well said. This is clearly a hit piece like any other piece of modern anti-Christian propaganda.
Let us not forget that with such a title, he gets thousands of viewers. These thousands of viewers lead to the lining of he pockets. Huge motivation for producing such a video.
This guy is more of a profit seeker than a prophet seeker.
If I were this guy who produced this video, I’d be ashamed to meet God and Jesus one day. It’s bad enough to leave the Lord’s Church, and it’s worse to persecute it in one’s mind, but to spread these lies across the internet for all to see, young and old alike, is chilling to think about for me!!!!!!
My daughter, who had formerly desired to serve a mission, but never did because of circumstances, left the Church a few years ago, and also denies both God’s and the Savior’s existence. It broke my heart when she first told me four years ago!!
I can only imagine the agony that this young man’s parents suffer!
His persecution of the Church on the internet must feel like a never-ending cancer to them!! 😢💔
@@deboraholsen2504 I hope you were kinder to your daughter when she told you this than you are to Mr. Harris. I spend all day every day living with the pain that I hurt my children so much as they were growing up. We raised them in the church and they all have and are working through the pain we caused them by using shame as a way to correct behaviors. I am only speaking for myself in this and it is not directed at the mormon church. I know that is the wrong term but I was raised mormon and my children were raised mormon. I was raised with shame as a tool to keep me in line and I continued that abusive method when raising my children. So sad for me to have to look back at what I put them through. Since leaving full and active membership in the church and just using the example of Christ rather than the teachings of men I have been able to see what is so wrong about that method. It is so freeing to realize that the only real commandment is to love God and to love our neighbors and to really study what Christ actually taught without the lens of mormon teachings to blur the view. Good luck with navigating the path as a parent as it is a tough job and I regret so many mistakes I made with our children.
Why was there a skip at 30:39?
Please post the article, or even just the details, by the anthropologist about treasure - would love to read it
Ok..im not lds but have read the book of mormon and thoroughly enjoyed it and i'm starting all over and reading it again I really feel like i've gotten a lot of good out of it and from it.. and there has been archaeological discoveries like the writing on that piece of metal in loudon TN in bat creek which is only an hour from my home there has been cemiters n swords found i think in iowa or ohio..maybe both.. but they have found different things from Tennessee to Ohio iowa on up to michigan and near the border of Canada..the information is out there!..if a body will just research for themselves
Bat creek stone is a forgery.
The Book of Mormon is true! The Bible, likewise. But just because the Bible is true, it doesn’t necessarily mean the Catholic Church is “God’s true church.”
Now apply that same logic to the LDS church regarding the Book of Mormon.
All who repent and come unto Christ are his church, even saints, in the latter days.
I appreciate your openness and respect for a book that you don't necessarily Believe in yourself. Thank you
@@lizkt i do respect it.. because it gives jesus christ his proper respects and the stories in it are just fascinating to me..its like cowboys n indians but a few thousand years ago
My biggest issue with this and other videos critical of the church is the a/v style of this and other videos. It starts out with images of the SLC temple, the Choir, filtered with an old and worn-out film filter that is darkened. Very reminiscent to the Godmakers and it's dreary opening on the Washington D.C., depressing music and all. They make the movements of Joseph a caricature, like something from South Park. Actually I think when South Park did a spoof on Joseph Smith and the church, their animation movement was better. I also see some Monty Python influences with Jesus coming up through the clouds.
I'm willing to be corrected if I'm wrong, but I don't think Joseph Smith ever said anything about a Mother in Heaven. There is an old hymn by Eliza R. Snow that refers to a Mother in Heaven, but I'm fairly confident there is no first-hand statement by Joseph of any doctrine of a Mother in Heaven. Now we have adopted "Heavenly Parents" which I don't have a problem with, nor do I personally have a problem with a Mother in Heaven. Personally I believe in a Mother in Heaven. But the idea that not only is there a Mother in Heaven, but that there are Mother's in Heaven has never been taught by Joseph, Nor has the specific act necessary to create spirit children been stated or even inferred except by critics. Yet the culture continues to perpetuate some of this non-LDS doctrine. We're not even sure if there is a need to have a spirit body created because in speeches made by Joseph Smith, like the King Follett discourse and the Sermon in the Grove that occurred just weeks before he died, spirits and an intelligence are often used to mean the same thing. There is, has, and will continue to be all kinds of speculation on how per-mortal beings become spirits ready to be born on earth, but it's unlikely we will know until after we have the capacity to understand. Maybe when we are translated/resurrected, or maybe not until after the millennium.
What also strikes me odd is that many of these concepts are biblical. They may not be concepts of the Traditional Christian persuasion, but many are biblical.
Joseph, early on, was warned through both spiritual and physical (being shocked when trying to grab the plates) that there was only one purpose for the plates. Any straying from that purpose would result in the destruction of both Joseph's life and soul. After being prepared by Moroni for seven years, Joseph understood his charge very well. Why Johnny doesn't realize this, or maybe he does but won't admit it, baffles me. Maybe my mission, due to the veracious anti-Mormon communities, prepared me more fully for these questions. With everything he has criticized so far, much of it is very superficial and can be applied to any religion or scripture. Applying Johnny's method here, what kind of lawless kook could he make Jesus out to be?
I've read, listened to, and heard much more than what is being presented here, and like you, David, even with all the nuances, problems, perceived inconsistencies and anything else I still believe. And quite wholeheartedly, I might add. If one listens closely and applies it to the New Testament, there is amazing similarities. Jesus was accused of breaking laws, living outside the norm, being weird, and making claims that were blasphemous. Modern-day critics of the LSD Church and Joseph Smith sound so much like that Pharisees and Sadducees of Christ's day, it's difficult not to draw the parallel. Maybe that's why most LDS turn to non-belief and atheism rather than to other religions; because the other religions make even less sense, therefore cancel out an option.
Facts are relative to individual interpretation. Very few interpret the same facts the same way. If this were true there would be no political, environmental, religious, gaming platform, etc, etc, divisions. Since we know this isn't true then we know that facts are understood differently. I personally have spent over 30 years being necessarily logical because I have to know how to talk to computers being a computer programmer. While I try not to get insulted when people tell me they know the facts and that's why they can't continue to be a member, I'm like "Wait! I still believe! Are you calling me ignorant or stupid because you think you know or understand the facts better than I do?" I try to give everyone leeway based on individual and human shortcomings. The same should be given to early church leaders and other members. Also, it should be given to those who decide to leave or become less active. My only issue with individuals like Johnny is that can't leave the church alone after they decide it's not for them. I have a lot of family, and a child or two who have left the church. As much as I want them to come back, it's not up to me. But I am glad they respect us enough to shove their ideas in our face. This also makes me wonder why so many Like Johnny feel the need to preach the anti-gospel and demean people while doing it.
David, great job on the video. I'm not sure I would be as patient. I'm old enough to start seeing this garbage being recycled on younger people and it gets tiring. But I did have a faith crisis on my mission that caused me to search and study much harder than I was. It also made me pray and fast much more diligently. I still think it takes work because if your not going forward, you are going backwards. I see that in my family and with some of my children.
I love Saints Unscripted. So grateful you are here. Keep up the good work and sorry this was so long.
One of the things I love about the people I watch on TH-cam is that they talk as if that person were there, not as if their back were turned. To me, this is a Christ-like way to treat them. We can talk about facts and opinions and thats great, but we can do it in a way thay doesn't attack or alienate others. Fantastic video. I wish you all the very best God has to give.
The church is true. People are messy . Good people everywhere are trying their best. Love the reaction.
Agreed.
what church?
I am glad you are reacting to his videos. Someone in my home just recently watched one of his videos. He is now agnostic/atheist.
this is very sad. he makes other people not to leave the church but make them not believe in Christ. i just remember KORIHOR.
His father was religious. He just didn't participate in local churches very often.
You’re much more diplomatic than I would’ve been. I do take serious issue with the arrogance of so many people that leave church that claim to be so much more enlightened now that they’ve left, and that active, believing members are being fooled. Like you said, we’ve all been presented with the same information, but have come to a very different conclusion. I feel like I’ve returned to the simplicity side of all the complexities of the Gospel and it’s beautiful.
"principal ancestors" I've wondered if that could infer/mean "earliest" in 1800 speak, instead of the majority or the main or biggest part.
Because such a meaning as that would be accurate even if the author of the book "Traced" is correct and the natives YDNA comes from a people that migrated from mid-Asia (and mixed) about 400 AD..
(hmmm interesting timing)
What was the apocalyptic ending?
Dude you ended up being total biased in all your review not cool
I know!! I came here to say the same thing
It’s one thing to leave the Church, it’s another to try to get others to join you. Harris’s position is similar to a guy named Korihor:
“Behold, I know that thou believest, but thou art possessed with a lying spirit, and ye have put off the Spirit of God that it may have no place in you; but the devil has power over you, and he doth carry you about, working devices that he may destroy the children of God.”
The funny and sad thing is all modern day defectors are described to a T in the BOM. Whether it's korihor or sherem or the amlicites or the great and spacious building...it's all there, and yet they use the exact same arguments to justify their rebellion against God.
“… for he seeketh that all men might be miserable like unto himself.”
When the unfaithful and ignorant and dissenters from the true church claim to know better hence distorting the truth. It reminds me of Korihor and Nehor in the book of Mormon. I know that Joseph Smith was the the prophet of the restoration. God and Jesus Christ appeared to him face to face and that The church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints is the only true church existing today and Jesus Christ lives who continue to direct the affairs of the church today through his prophets. The book of Mormon is another testament of Jesus Christ and we have Prophet Nelson today. These truths shall stand today and forever until when we are brought to stand in the presence of God to be judged of whatever we did here including misleading others. In the name of Jesus Christ Amen.
Keep up the great work, David, your videos are very important!
I feel like I've recently got to the point of simplicity past complexity.
Well done! I really enjoyed your reaction and response to this video.
Thank you so much!
Its so odd to when former members make it seem like the thing that is so cool and compelling about the restored church is the treasure, magic, wives and heavenly mother, and then declare it was discovering those obscure elements that shattered their testamony? It can't be both!
I would personally disagree with your statment. To me, it would be like you meeting a girl who's adventurous and exciting and is extremely energentic and bubbly, but then discover that all those endearing characteristics are only a part of her because she's a cocain addict, and she's been high every time you saw those endearing qualities. Suddenly, those endearing qualities take on a very different image than what you had originally seen and had been excited about.
That's a weird analogy but the point is that two things can be true at a time. At first, the things you loved and learned were great, but then as you learn more about those qualities, you realize that what seems like a good thing on the surface is actually a bad thing.
Or, if you're a woman, it would be like if you married a man who was incredibly fit and hard-working but then you discovered he was a drug addict, which was the only way he could accomplish what he had accomplished. What you originally found to be intriguing and endearing suddenly flips and becomes tainted and repulsive. You suddenly begin to question everything, even your own sense of judgment and expectations
It's interesting because his video is framed as an inverse restoration lesson from Preach My Gospel. Teaching the restoration, but to incite disbelief. Just interesting its mostly structured the same way.
The Qoricancha foundation in Cusco could easily be the foundation of the original temple that Nephi and his people built. And the "Tower of Cahuide" foundation at nearby Sacsayhuaman matches the “great tower” on a hill spoken of in Mosiah 11:13 - a tall tower built on a hill to the North. If we are going to find evidences in the New World we need to be looking in the right places. I find it a mistake that the Andes model is neglected.
I used to think the Book of Mormon was demonic and that Joseph used demons to write it
When I left the church for a watered down gospel I thought the Book of Mormon was wrong because it was the full version of the gospel (faith plus works)
When I left the watered down gospel for the real Christian gospel faith repentance baptism Holy Spirit Endure , I had to also abandon the demon theory of the BoM
Mostly though, I am LDS now because God told me
Saints Unscripted is such a beast channel!! Love it. Thanks David, you're the man!
David, you are so much more compassionate than I am. Great reaction video. The tone of all these "leaving" videos is always so sad. Your videos however are so happy. Such a contrast.
From the first moment of the video - Johnny misses Hebrews 12:2 - Jesus Christ is the 'author' and 'finisher' of our 'faith'. Not Joseph Smith Jr. That applies to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints . . .
David. Thank you for accurately explaining inaccuracies regarding Joseph Smith, portrayed by Johnny.
Well said about the witnesses of the BOM. I am an inactive member of the church however they spirit I felt reading and praying about the BOM and the church in general is undeniable. Thanks for the great work you do slam dunking over these ExMos. Keep up the great work!
Who penned the statements of the witnesses? Did the witnesses see with their physical eyes or spiritual eyes? That is an important distinction. One that his hidden and very misleading by the BOM.
NO truth: Book of Abraham published with 3 facsimiles taken from an ancient papyrus, shown to be a fraud years later. The book is a funerary papyrus showing scenes from the Egyptian Book of the Dead. In Facsimiles Nos. 1 & 3, Smith misidentifies everything depicted. "LDS and non-LDS Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham" Quote from LDS OFFICIAL WEB PAGE
NO trace of the “Two million Jaredites slain” (Ether 15:2), with iron, brass, breast-plates, shields, and armor. This is 3 times the # of Americans killed in the entire Civil War & Revolutionary War combined.
NO trace of the great city Zarahemla- it would be impossible for a city the size of Zarahemla (Alma 5:2; D&C 125:3) to leave no trace
NO trace of Jewish dna found in any Indian burial ground anywhere in the Americas from time period of BOM. Thomas W. Murphy, (Mormon scholar, DNA researcher):“We are in a dilemma, the genetic evidence shows that American Indians are not Hebrews, they are not Israelites. The Book of Mormon is not true.” John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 2005
NO temple like Solomon's described in 2 Nephi 5:16 has ever been found yet biblical temple remains in Jerusalem
NO Nephite "reformed Egyptian" writings ever found anywhere as it is not a language found in the world
NO cities mentioned in the BOM have ever been located (none of 38) anywhere
NO evidence: "The whole land was covered with buildings, and the people were as numerous, as it were the sand of the sea." Yet not one ever located. (Mormon 1:7) IMPOSSIBLE for highly advanced civilizations (Jaredites, Nephites) & MILLIONS of people to have vanished
The BOM speaks of sheep, swine, silk, wool clothing & elephants existing in the Americas when they did not. 1 Ne.13:7; Alma 4:6; Ether 9:17 and 10:24 These were brought to America centuries later by Europeans.
NO wheat, no goats, no steel found in the Americas, no metal smelting furnaces, no metal armor, no steel swords, no cattle, no chariot parts, no brass (Mosiah 8:10) no evidence of the listed Kings in BOM, no Jewish relics or Jewish Temples from supposed Jews, no metal plates like Nephites supposedly used, no middle eastern seeds growing, "which were brought from the land of Jerusalem ... and grew exceedingly" 1 Nephi 18:24
There is NO archaeological, anthropological, topological, linguistic, botanical or dna evidence to support the Book of Mormon. LDS anthropologist Dee Green: “The first myth we need to eliminate is that BOM archaeology exists” conceding 20 years of research “left us empty-handed” (Green 1969 p. 77)
CAN WE TRUST OUR HEARTS AS TO THE TRUTH OF THE BOOK OF MORMON since there is no evidence?
D&C Section 9:8-9 - tell us that if something is true it will make our "bosom burn" and we will FEEL that it is right.
This is NOT how the bible tells us to determine truth. Acts 17:11 "they... EXAMINED THE SCRIPTURES EVERY DAY to see if what Paul said was TRUE"; "TEST THEM ALL" 1 Thes 5:21 The best way to spot false teachers is to examine the TRUTH of the bible. 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV "STUDY to show thyself approved unto God, ... rightly dividing the word of TRUTH." 1 John 4:1 says: "BELIEVE NOT EVERY SPIRIT, but try the spirits whether they are of God; because MANY FALSE PROPHETS are gone out into the world."
Maroni 10:4 says: "he will manifest the truth of it unto you" But: THE BIBLE WARNS YOU about trusting your own heart. Jeremiah 17:9 "the heart is DECEITFUL above all things". Proverbs 28:26 "He that trusts in his own heart is a FOOL." "The sum of your word is TRUTH" Psalm 119:160
Faith in a false God is of what value? Faith in the true God is invaluable.
Mormonism is based on a PROVABLY FALSE claim the Bible was corrupted and "plain and precious parts" were removed by Christian translators after the apostles died. Yet, there isn’t ANY specific biblical scripture found ANYWHERE, EVER, that directly supports Joseph Smith’s translation of the Bible.
AN OBJECTIVE TEST OF THE BIBLE AND THE BOOK OF MORMON:
The Claim: In the BOM, the prophet Nephi has a vision the Bible was corrupted after the 12 apostles and after the formation of the “great and abominable church” (1 Nephi 13:26-29). Most Mormons believe this is the Catholic Church formed in the 4th century. Nephi claims this church was founded by the Devil (1 Nephi 14:3). So let’s objectively examine both the Bible & BOM to be fair and test for errors.
BIBLE: The Dead Sea Scrolls have been dated to as early as 350 BC. One is the Great Isaiah Scroll, which is the oldest known copy of the Book of Isaiah dated to 180 BC.
Do ANY ancient scrolls show Smith's "uncorrupted" version of scripture? NO! Yet they would if the scripture was later corrupted after the 12 apostles died as Smith said.
Also, if they had been corrupted, Jesus would have corrected scripture instead of affirming it! Jesus sd:“ I told you EVERYTHING written about me in the Law of Moses, the Books of the Prophets, and in the Psalms had to happen.” (Luke 24:44-46)
Scripture is the same today as it was 2,100+ years ago with only minor spelling or punctuation differences. Joseph Smith was wrong. These scrolls pre-dated Catholics, and are Jewish scrolls and the BOM says the Jews had the Scriptures in their "purity". 1Nephi 13:25
LDS Apologist Wayne Ham admitted the Isaiah scroll does not support the the BOM. Apologist Dr. Sidney B. Sperry, of BYU, said the Dead Sea Scrolls do not help the case for the BOM. BYU Professor Joseph F. McConkie: "Rather than Joseph Smith as Found in Ancient Manuscripts, it ought be Joseph Smith as Lost in Ancient Manuscripts.” (Religious Studies Center, 1984)
IS THE GOD OF THE BOOK OF MORMON THE SAME ONE AS IN THE BIBLE? NO!
"Before me NO god was formed, nor shall there be ANY after me.” (Isaiah 43:10) If Mormonism is true, then God could not make this claim, for he was just a man at one point; nor could he claim that no gods would come after him, for that is the goal of LDS members.
Like Joseph Smith this was the goal of Satan, to be like God and have worshippers. "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God ... I will be like the Most High”’ (Isaiah 14:12-14)
The new testament has not been corrupted either. See John 1:1 Smith changed it to make Jesus a created being. Research a 1900 year old papyri known as the Bodmer Papyri of the book of John. (written 150 AD, not long after the apostle John died)
John 1:1 "In the BEGINNING was the WORD and the WORD was WITH God and the WORD WAS God." ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΚΑΙ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΗΝ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΝ ΘΕΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΘΕΟΣ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ (look up this ancient Greek yourself on google)
John 1:1 Joseph Smith translation: "In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God." Smith's Jesus is no longer God in the flesh but the biblical Jesus is: "God was manifest in the flesh" 1Tim. 3:16 KJV
There are 4,000 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament. Some go back to 350 AD and NONE support Joseph Smith's claims that the bible of today has been corrupted.
Papyrus fragments exist of the New Testament dated to 175 AD and show that the new testament has NOT been "corrupted". (New Testament Docs: Are They Reliable? Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1967 pp. 15-17)
In the LDS Church’s 147th Conf., Gen Authority Bernard P. Brockbank said: the Christ followed by Mormons is NOT THE CHRIST followed by traditional Christianity. (Ensign, May 1977 p. 26)
The manuscript and archeological evidence for the BIBLE is the GREATEST in antiquity. I pray you know the true Jesus and not Joseph Smith's version.
Galatians 1:8 "Though we, or an angel from heaven, preach ANY OTHER GOSPEL to you than that which we have preached to you, let him be ACCURSED." Matthew 24:24 warns Satan WILL send FALSE prophets and pose as an ANGEL of light! 2 Corinthians 11:14
God is much greater than the humanoid of Mormonism and NOT just ONE OF AN ENDLESS NUMBER OF GODS.
Jesus said ALL scripture will NOT fade away but "many wolves in sheep's clothing" will come trying to ADD to the word. Mathew 7:15 Joseph Smith changed Jesus, the Father and ADDED you can become a GOD.
It hurts my heart to see Mormons fall for the lie that we can become God when there is only one eternal God found in the bible.
"The only men who become Gods, even the sons of Gods are those that enter into polygamy." (Brigham Young) Journal of Discourses 11 p.269
Not if they are one
@longblaid
@@Longblaid.
Thanks for the remarks on this video. I had a few thoughts that popped into my head. 1) Upon reading the comments I see a lot of people saying that those that leave the church, can’t leave the church alone and that it’s a bad thing. I wouldn’t say it’s a bad thing. For example what if someone was a Nazi in WWII but after the war they decided that that was wrong for them to do, so they change their ways, but part of moving forward for them is to share their experience as a Nazi, the positive and the negative. 2) It’s so great that this channel is addressing church historical questions like these. How come the church does not have a channel or put a lot of effort into doing the same? I get that the essays have came out and the Joseph smiths papers, Saints, etc. But often this materials are difficult to find and have not been available until recently. It just seems kind of odd.
Preserving heritage is a phrase that has a different meaning to mormons
I don't watch 1h TH-cam videos, I did not watch all of Johnny's video, he mixes true facts with his personal opinions often. But this video, (I fast forwarded several times) I really enjoyed it.