Haha me too. I can’t quite explain why. I think it just makes me so happy seeing people finding their way out of a high demand religion and finding freedom, peace and happiness. Plus all the mormon rules and temple stuff is super interesting.
@@christinam6430 You just did an excellent job explaining why. For me it's all those things, as well as how learning about high demand groups helps me contextualize cult-like elements in my own life.
Bad marriages at 2:14:31. I had a counsellor in a stake presidency who told me once "you don't have to die to go to hell. Just be stuck in a really bad marriage." He is right. My great grandmother's advice is a woman should know a man for at least a year before getting married. They need to see how he behaves in all four seasons.
4 seasons is true-- but dont get stuck on the number of days... you need to experience each other in grief/sorrow, elation, power and vulnerability. its imperative to see the 4 faces of coping.
@ Scott: yes, a very wise elderly woman told me, "Marriage can be heaven on earth ..... or, it can be hell on earth. Choose wisely". I heeded her advice, took my time and am so glad I did. Happily married for 20+ years now (non-Mormon). Thankful for that wisdom.
I dated my husband for more than year before we married. He was lured by his brother away from me because his family didn't like my attention to him. We were together almost 2 years before he took off. I don't know where he's at today or if he's alive.
"I always have to remind myself this isn't forever--this feeling isn't forever--and I'm going to be okay." Thank you for this quote, it's going up on my wall. And for everything the three of you shared! 💜
Thanks for that comment! I just wrote down the quote and will also be putting it on my wall. It's a very powerful reminder that "this too shall pass." I like the way she said it better, though :)
This made me cry. I could so relate to Chandler’s feelings. I left a Mennonite church a year ago. It’s been the most terrifying but awesome experience!!
Good for you. I hope sincerely that it's been a good experience to this day, that you're doing well, and that you've found success and happiness out in the world. My deepest hope for everyone who leaves a high control group is that people make an effort to show them that there is a place for each of them out here in the world with the rest of us, and that they may not have the same tight communities, but they can make community out here, and there will be good people willing to be a part of that community. Wishing you the best of luck. Take good care of yourself.
@@nicolejohnson638 you're welcome. :) Im so happy for you. I imagine it was tough, but you've clearly come a long way already in just a year. Keep it up!
I love how Samantha is like I WILL BURN THIS WHOLE THING DOWN and John is like quieter with his anger. I think that makes sense because if you've been a woman or femme presenting in these churches you are always used to silencing your voice and when you get out all you want is to be heard. loved this episode it helped me reach out to my own community of ex members here's to healing and sharing our stories
It's even tougher when you go through all that at the ripe old age of 70. I've been so angry. Afraid of losing my kids and grandkids when they found out. It's lonely. I don't trust any religion now. Crazy times.
My heart goes out to you. I cannot imagine how painful it must be, and yet I still wish that my parents would see the light and wake up to the truth so that we can spend what little time we have left together. The LDS cult takes up so much time!
💕 I'm sending you all my love, Suzy. I'm a never Mormon, but I grew up in Christianity. I went through an anger phase like many do. I can't imagine how you are feeling, but I hope that you are able to find peace. I feel like I've found my own slice of peace through processing it.
Mine started at my late 20's and I was on and off untill two years ago at 48. I'm done now for two years and I have no interest in joining any religion ever, I gave it a good go. The anger phase was in my late 20's early 30's, I felt so duped, I left my country for ten years and left my religion behind then my husband died and I came back, gave it a shot for the past ten years but I just came to the realisation that it is one big brainwashing and manipulation and paying your tithes were more important than your well being. They did not support me one bit after my husband's death they only wanted money from me. I just had enough being bossed around by our church leaders(priests, elders, profits, apostles) that are only men because women are there to have kids, make coffee and bake cakes for the church. We were nothing but support for our husbands and after I remarried with someone from my church I became voiceless, I had no right to speak to any leaders in my church, I had to go through my husband. There were so many rules and even though we are not Mormon and the Bible is what we swear by we are very much the same when it comes to certain aspects. I am at my happiest when I'm not at church and not having some strange man trying to tell my husband and I how to live our lives. Fortunately my husband felt the same way as I and we both decided to leave. His parents aren't happy but they stopped harassing us about it.
I commented on part 1 but I want to comment again on how much I enjoyed this. I love that the host let's the guest really speak freely and express her truth and doesn't interrupt whilst at the same time keeping the interview on track and giving explanations for things that someone who doesn't know Mormonism wouldn't know. Its fascinating to hear what other cultures and religions go through. All 3 such delightful people and I can't wait to listen to more from this channel!
I like the fact that when a person talks about how much they loved something to do with or about the church he doesn't discredit it. Even though there are so many things the mormon church does wrong they do have some good qualities and people can have good experiences.
I can sooo relater to Chandler's story. I left the church at 21 after divorcing from a 2-year marriage. It was 1973, and the height of the sexual revolution. Between escaping the LDS purity culture and the revolutionary societal changes in sexual attitudes of that era I lost myself -- because I never knew myself to begin with. It took years for me to find balance and understand who I was and what I wanted. When you grow up in Mormonism you are not well prepared to go out into the "real" world, so you can be easily exploited. I never regretted leaving the church, but the exit was brutal.
As someone raised an evangelical/fundamentalist christian, there is WAY more in common with mormonism than differences, so I'm shocked to hear that evangelicals think they're such an exception.
Chandler should do public speaking, not only is her story (part 1 and 2) incredible but her empathy for others, resilience, and insights about life are inspiring 💛
These video interviews are saving lives. As a Therapist I have met with men and women, teens and younger who have horror stories they are hiding from the world. The biggest fear is often the shunning. Like a pack of wild dogs that will be push out . Made to be an outcast and left to die alone. The shameful Mormon feels alone to their core. Thank you all for doing this!
Yes, that's the worst part. I'm so glad as a therapist you understand this. I'm a retired therapist myself. My sister and I had to cut off contact with our family because of the emotional abuse. Sometimes that is unfortunately necessary.
My condolences for all those who have lost years and part of themselves by these predatory religious organizations. There nothing better than owning yourself. Thank you for this podcast!
Totally with you. These religious organizations are 99% run by men and instill fear in healthy sexuality. Its so ridiculous to see this as an outsider, free from control. I feel bad for those that feel trapped and cant get out because their whole family is brainwashed in it. Its like a cult. *sigh*
Thanks for your podcasts. I was a fully committed born again tongue talking fundy Christian that had a faith crisis in 1986. Your show is more validating than any show or person than I have found.
Aww that sounds interesting. Anyone who left pre-internet is fascinating to me because there's less information and less community to rely on while transitioning out.
@@fellowviewer1095 Yes no community at all. I still miss that part. I’ve never been good at meeting people or making friends. I was divorced by January of 1990 and had five children to take care of so I was busy but lonely.
I was born and raised in Utah in a hard core Mormon area right up the street from a church. My parents gave us the freedom to peruse any belief we wanted. Listening to this has really made me reflect on long term issues. I developed an eating disperser at 15, became an alcoholic at 17. Of course other factors contributed but it’s interesting reflecting now and also on my family dynamic.
I never realized how much leaving the church has affected me. I left at 19 and I’m still angry about how controlling and destructive the church was. I wasn’t Mormon but I was part of a super Christian group in Tennessee. There are so many similarities
Thank you for this, it was super interesting. My current boyfriend is ex-mormon and went through a very painful divorce before completely leaving the church. They met at BYUI and got married at 23 after dating for only a month! This episode gave me some insight into what things might've been like for him. Over time I've come to know his story more but there are still things he's healing from everyday. It doesn't help that his mother is constantly encouraging him to re-join. The trauma that he went through because of the LDS church will always live with him. I wish Chandler and everyone else who has been brave enough to leave this constraining religion the best in their life.
Can I ask if he was specifically mormon or just LDS? I've been trying to distinguish between the two because I have a couple friends that fall into different categories...I think. It's super confusing. One of my new friends married my neighbor after knowing him less than a year (they met at BYU) and I would love to be there to support her in what must be an extremely difficult and confusing road ahead. They are still entrenched in the mormon church and seem to be "happy" there for the time being. So difficult to know what to say.
@susaneweinberg4411 ah. Part of the confusion is that Mormons themselves insist that they are not "mormon". So are the Fundamentalists even MORE Fundamentalist? Yipe
Thanks you for sitting for this interview, Chandler!!! Samantha added a ton of insight to this interview. Super effective co-host! Went into this interview not confident I would connect with it and left feeling I better understand myself and what happened to me in important ways. The interplay between Samantha’s similar experience, her insights after years of reflection, her intelligence, COMBINED with John’s deep MSP interviewing experience and psychology education and training-resulted in something quite beautiful. Really appreciate all the super high quality content. This occasional variety, pairing a deep, thoughtful co-host with a compatible interviewee, is a potent recipe. Adds even more meaningful insights IMO.
Totally agree. I wasn't expecting to connect much with this interview but everything about it was great. Chandler, Sam and John all did a great job and Chandler is super intelligent and well-spoken.
When I saw the title of young mormon marriage.. I thought it would be younger.. I unfortunately got married at 18.. I am not longer married. I tried to make it work for 28 years. 28 years of a nightmare.. Ruined my life.. My childrens.. All because I didnt want the shaming life.. This interview brought up lots of hard emotions. I Thank you so much for your podcasts. My life has been the church and their beliefs.. This girl is lucky she is only 28.. Im much older and feel my life is over and feeling so hopeless
You can be anything you want from this point on, be free you deserve it!! I can guarantee you that you have so much happiness and love ahead of you, your life’s not over we can be reborn again FOREVER ❤️🦋
No, no, your life is NOT over! It's just different now but it can be the birthing signs of something very wonderful to come, please believe this. Don't let the church win but take it one day at a time to enjoy each new day now. I'm not Mormon but there is no perfect life, we all have our struggles. But each day is a clean blank page for us to write a beautiful story. Do that, you deserve it and your children deserve to have you joyfully living in their lives. Much love to you xx. This below, has been a huge help to me to make the most of the days I have left: "Don't wait for things to get better. Life will always be complicated. Learn to be happy right now, Otherwise you'll run out of time."
For all my Mormon Stories friends, I wish you all a warm and peaceful holiday season & a healthy and prosperous new year. I value this podcast and the community of people who contribute to it so very much. You are all such a blessing to so many.
Wow, so much said here that was too familiar. Married at 23, 2.5 years later divorced and being told by the bishop that I would be held accountable for my soon to be ex-husbands sins since I did not "out" him when interviewed for temple recommend. I stood up from my chair so fast that it tipped over, leaned across his desk and said, "This is not the church that I was taught about ...cannot be held accountable for Adams transgressions...and you can ride your white horse straight to hell." I left the church that day, but struggled for decades will I be the one going to hell because I left the "only true church". Conclusion God is Love not punishment. Thank you for having this discussion.
Oh my gosh, Chandler's story about her second marriage is quite similar to mine!! I was like 80 out 20 in (that might've been with her first one, I can't remember), but ultimately after 3.5 years I realized that I didn't in fact want kids after all. There were other compatibility issues and some of those were about the church, but we were both decently set on working through that all. But once I realized that I really didn't want kids, and he eventually was like hey let's buy a house and have kids, we both had to realize that that's not something you should compromise on. It'll cause resentment on both sides. Thankfully our split has been very amicable. He's an amazing person and I do love him so much. We're even still in the same dnd group together, now that it's been almost a year and we had time alone to mourn and grieve the loss of our relationship. It was hard. Because I knew it would never be the same again. I hated that we had to hurt our families by saying we weren't going to be together anymore. I hated thinking about how our Christmas just recently had been our last Christmas together with our families and each other. Damn, even still, saying this does hurt. But it also has been so freeing for me, and hopefully him too, to not feel stuck living the way I always thought I had to live. 💛
I had a conversation yesterday with my boyfriend. I’m post-mormon he is lukewarm mormon but the way he speaks makes me think he wants to go back while the thought of going back, for me, is akin to setting myself on fire. I’m terrified our differences regarding this major topic will destroy our relationship and I told him. I love him but I fear how it may effect our future. The church has taken something from me and I am so fearful that it will take this too. He has done everything to assuage my fear but it’s there.
I just found this podcast, and I've been listening all day, lol. I grew up catholic, and this sounds SO similar! Shame, guilt, unquestioning obedience... so relatable to my own experience growing up catholic!
I had a Mormon copilot years ago when I was flying bombers while in the Air Force, we became good friends and I respected his flying skills. I never really understood his religion but never the less I came to respect his faith and his values. I'm a non-believer and not quite an atheist but my copilot was a great guy and I would gladly fly into combat with him any day.
Amazing episodes! Chandler is resilient, wise, and thoroughly charming. I'm so glad she shared her story. I absolutely love Sam as a co-host, she always has really interesting and insightful questions and comments.
Starting around 2:10:35 - you said it @John Dehlin. The “scarlet letter” of the second divorce and the stigma of it… so true. I left the church in 2005, I left him in 2007 (divorced in 2009). I got married the 2nd time in 2012, and divorced him in 2018. Even being out of the church for 16.5 years, I STILL feel the shame of the #2. I won’t even date and plan to never marry again. I’ve commented before about my abusive 1st husband (temple marriage) - I suffered so many years all because of church teachings. My second marriage failed because he was an addict and was not faithful to me.And for some dang reason I still feel shame for being divorced twice! I could relate to a lot of Chandler’s story. Thanks for being willing to talk about these tough topics. When I was 14 the son of 2nd counselor in the Bishopric touched my breasts without my consent. When I went in for the yearly worthiness interview (or it was for a youth temple trip- can’t remember now), his DAD told me that I was “trying to grow up too fast” and shamed ME (because his son had a lust attraction for me.) It was so horrible for me because I felt so violated. I never told him what his son did to me either. In the church’s POV, it’s ALWAYS the girls fault if the boys can’t control themselves!!! And girls are taught this from a very young age. It’s so harmful and disgusting.
John, as an ex mild Methodist, I laughed out loud at “There is no Methodist Stories Podcast”. I feel so lucky that my faith transition to being Athiest was semi-easy. Thank you all. It was becoming a cult watcher that made me look at at my Christian beliefs that opened my eyes. ✌🏼❤️ to all.
@@honeybunch5765 I am a part of a VERY liberal denomination called the United Church of Christ. It is an environment that is as much about asking the questions as providing answers. Our catchphrase is "No matter who you are or where you are on life's journey, you are welcome here." It is a space where LGBTQ folk are embraced, diversity is encouraged, social and environmental justice are prioritized. It IS possible to have a community of faith that is not cultish.
@@SDChemey I've been to some very culty liberal churches (or places of worship) but usually the cult aspects revolve around political beliefs or "purity" as opposed to theology.
I want to say I left the Mormon church because I met the Jesus of the Bible, which the LDS religion doesn’t teach. He is the true savior and doesn’t condone fear in order to serve Him.
Chandler - at least you were 22 when you discovered the CES letter and these truths that they hid from us and not 40! Glad you found out when you did! All those thigns that you described with your first marriage are things that my wife and have had to deal with after 20 years into marriage. I'm so glad that you found these things out early on.
omg when she said she felt like she was plopped into the world with a baby brain. That’s so specific and so real. Like I had no idea how to deal with the realities of the real world after accepting the church wasn’t true. I felt like everyone else had a huge head start on ~everything~
John, your channel is so interesting. Thank you. I joined JWs at age 36 and woke up 3 years ago. I’m now 75. I’m no longer interested in organized religion. The Mormon culture is parallel to JWs. I had no idea! I’m so grateful I wasn’t raised in the org as I was able to escape with far less damage. Still devastating but nothing like born-ins. When I left people said I was looking for an excuse to stop serving God. So disrespectful. Thank you to your and your interviewees they are all so honest and transparent. Keep up the excellent work.
Ex JW also so many things similar. Shunned by almost all people I knew, its no fun. I´m so done with all religions and god. I`m finally free and trying to find my own way of living MY life. Growing up as girl I had my box I should fit, but I didnt. I tried so hard, but it didnt work.
The JW faith is NOT like the LDS they don’t celebrate Christmas, birthdays, Easter, 🐣 don’t believe in keeping the sabbath day Holy, don’t take the sacrament, don’t believe in the priesthood, they don’t believe that there’s a spirit that leaves the body at death, they don’t believe in a afterlife, JWs believe that death is oblivion until the resurrection that it’s like waking up after being asleep I. Was brought up in the JW faith but not baptised into it I left at age 16 and became a Latter day saint at age 24 I’m 68 now and I’m still a Latter Day Saint which is fullness of the gospel and I believe that Joseph Smith was and still is a prophet I don’t believe that the people in the church are perfect they are definitely not and I’m not perfect but the fullness of the gospel is true and nothing anyone says can convince me otherwise!
Sam is very insightful, wise, and well-spoken. There were several times she said incredible things and then negated it by saying things like sorry I am talking too much or delete that. And I just wanted to say you don't need to do that, you added so much value and it was all worth hearing.
It STILL makes me SO angry how much pressure tscc puts on young people to marry early. My mission president told me, as I was leaving for home, "I don't want to hear anything from you unless it's a wedding invitation. That's your mission now. To find your eternal companion and bring children to this earth." I didn't have my education, hadn't dated a lot growing up, and didn't have any concept of what I wanted to do with my life or how to navigate adulthood.
My mission president told me to marry the First man who asked me. And, of course, we are conditioned to do what church leaders tell us to do. And, as soon as I returned home my father asked me, "Did you meet anyone?" He also wanted me to attend BYU for the express purpose of finding a "return missionary" to marry. The pressure is so unbelievable.
I was an evangelical Christian (born again from a very strong experience at age 23 of my own accord) and I love this podcast so much. I personally have gone through deconstruction and I am agnostic at this point. I personally came to this place because of an emotionally abusive marriage where I prayed for many many years for things to change and it only got worse. It was a huge loss to lose my faith, but I started to see The God taught to me as toxic (like my former spouse.). I am left to process this pretty much 100% on my own unfortunately.
I’m so very sorry that you’re going through this alone. My heart hurts for you. If I can send any comfort, humans are free to choose. God is able to change us, but only if we want/allow Him to. I am so sorry for all of the pain and emotional trauma you endured. My heart yearns for you. People fail us. I’m sorry that someone who was supposed to be a help to you was toxic to you. You are loved!!!
Hi John. So I just wanted to give my opinion as someone who's experienced SA. Sometimes during this video, these events were brought up in a sort of casual sounding way, and this can feel minimizing due to how traumatic these events can be. I think in this particular talk I think you could have held back on bringing these things up in some instances. That being said, from what I've seen you are usually very respectful and honest with how you talk about these topics, which I really appreciate. Thank you for what you're doing here! I love your content!
The stuff Chandler said around 1:40 resonates with me sooooo much! I just got divorced at the end of January. It's super sad. I think he's a great guy and I'm grateful that he's a good father to my kids. And yet, getting divorced and moving out is the best thing I've ever done! I feel so good right now! Chandler worded it so well. I feel like I can actually ask myself what I want for the first time in my life. I'm not owned by someone else. I can actually make choices that are right for me and not just in service to everyone else. I can actually get to know who I truly am. It's absolutely amazing!
I remember the exact moment when I realized that every man in my life had control OVER my whole life.... my husband, my bishop, the prophet, apostles, Joseph Smith and finally, God. I didn't have the words for it, but I finally saw that this religion was a patriarchal system. I had absolutely no control over my body, my sexuality, my life, and even my mind. I just was over it. Mormonism ruined organized realigion for me too and also God. I became an athiest for some time. I felt like I had to break everything down to build myself up again with who I really was and what I really believed.
This is one of the best podcasts ever! I find every person's story fascinating. What I find most fascinating is how such seemingly small bits of false information are usually what leads people down their path to leave. I don't want to bash anyone's beliefs here, but I find it interesting that this same logic can be applied to almost any religion, yet people still believe by the billions and don't care much to investigate the truth. I think the difference is Mormonism is so high demand that when the cracks start to show even a little, it leads people down a rabbit hole of discovery.
Wow, I see so much of myself in Chandler. Such similar stories. I'm proud of you girl, you figured it out sooner than me. Enjoy your deliberate & beautiful new life ❤️
My neighbors are Mormon and that gives me a consistent view of how they manage their day to day lives. While I cannot say it's the norm, their marriage was likely more or less arranged through the church as he was an elder from one country and she was a younger woman - from another. They have two girls and one boy. She does virtually everything around the home, including yard work, and management of all home/mechanical chores. I don't think he overtly abuses her, but he does speak to her with contempt and even the boy is verbally abusive to her as well. She is very nice, but completely oblivious to how the simplest of things work, as if she was raised to a certain age in ignorance/purity then married to produce children. I look at those kids and see a future where male preference and female submission is a virtue and think to myself, if I treated children like that, I would be locked up.
@@brocktonstockton4052 I don't engage with her because, while nice, she has the mind of a child and it breaks my heart to see a fellow human being wrapped in doctoral ignorance. On the corollary, the couple on the other side of me are both clinical psychologists and are far more insightful and interesting to engage with. If I was to seduce a married woman, I'd choose her just for the pillow talk. Ironically, Joseph Smith was killed by husbands of women (and daughters) he seduced, so your comment is rich.
@@waynemills206 I didn’t read into your comment any such supposition as Brockton Stockton’s accusation. What a weird comment to make. Anyway, your description reminds me a bit of my own (Roman Catholic) parents, although somewhat less severe. The good news is that I moved on. My highly dysfunctional parents had nevertheless treated me with kindness and indulgence when I was a little girl, and I think that provided a foundation on which I later was able to build a healthy life with an equal-partner husband. But I do still struggle with interacting with my mother respectfully. It’s been ingrained in me to treat her with disdain, derision, contempt - whatever. I necessarily moved far away from home. The physical distance was very helpful. When my children were preschool-aged, my parents came to our house to visit for several days. On the second day, my mother volunteered to do some task or another. One of the children said matter-of-factly that she shouldn’t be the one to do it because she wasn’t good at it. The child had gotten that message from watching my dad criticize her repeatedly. I realized that I had been taught from a very very young age that my mother was worthless. The thing is, adults tend to identify with our parents, whether we want to or not. Your neighbor’s child has learned to hate his mother. By the time he is an adult, unless he takes steps to understand and change, he will hate himself just as much.
@@pechaa Thanks for sharing your story. I think Brockton's response was specifically crafted to suggest I ignore behaviors that do not comport with social health. That parents should not be questioned or challenged because of genetic exclusivity. Breaking that wheel is tantamount to encouraging children to learn how to solve collective problems all humans will encounter in the future. My lamentations are not about humans being consistently rational, but rather identifying the known and correctable ideologies that have plagued the human condition since the dawn self awareness. We have better information, data and alternatives to explaining the world we live in that does not involve perpetuating myths and self deception.
@@waynemills206 great answer to Brockton Stockton. People forget that these self- proclaimed prophets were womanizers and abused their positions of power to control their flock! Definitely not Christian and definitely not the teachings of Jesus.
Probably one of my favorite episodes. Haven't been LDS but have been a part of a church that viewed sex & marriage very much that way, as in dont do anything but get married early...I got married early & divorced early & what shes saying is so relatable about both. It was so freeing to move somewhere where people knew me for me & not me as someone's wife, free of that pressure to be perfect, free from the weight of questioning what I did how I related to people every min of my life. What the cohost said about being present was so on point, w/o those pressures of overthinking every action you can be present.
Having listened to your story I feel a great sadness I am 73 and what I feel that is missing is that you do not have had the opportunity to be yourself. and your Church stood between God and you as a creation in God's likeness. Your immediate task now I believe is to be yourself and learn your own truth You are courageous and honest and I believe God does love you.
Such a great inside look at Mormonism. I went to Salt Lake City, late 70s, from Edmonton, Canada, to visit boyfriends mom. So easy to differentiate mormons from others, they had a plastic look to them. It was a huge culture shock, as I am Indigenous to Canada, and had never seen anything like that before.
We’re told to be accountable for our actions and that taking responsibility when we do something wrong is an act of integrity, so the church needs to be able to take the responsibility for its mistakes and the harm it has done. The members need to allow for the church to take responsibility instead of trying to protect it. The church cannot be absolved of any responsibility in the lives of its members. It’s illogical and unhealthy to protect it to that degree.
I have seen Sam in Zelph videos and she always has done amazing but wow she is so great in this. She is so articulate, well spoken, and a great interviewer. I love her and Cara in Mormon Stories.
“Left over sushi”. That takes bravery to a new level. Seriously., jokes aside. Chandler is a survivor. The strength and drive show through. She keeps going. Much respect.
This was EPIC!! I sadly/happily could relate to her experience growing up in the church. I may need a minute to deconstruct again. This stirred up buried emotions. Thanks for sharing Chandler ! ❤🌟❤
I've just recently started watching the pocast. It just popped up on my feed. I am an EX Jehovah's Witness and listening to the podcast, I plainly hear Mormon but your stories are mine also. No magic undergarments but we had a dress code for absolute sure. My feelings are so similar. Made me realize other religions do this same stupid stuff. Wow!!!!!
Gloria, I was raised in the Baptist church, and I no longer believe in anything in particular, but these Mormon stories also mirror a lot of my own experiences as an ex-Baptist, too.
Cool welcome, I’m exmo and I love the jw content, so similar but so different. I love the idea that I was over here in this bubble and your over there in your bubble and we so suspicious of each other but we’re so much the same.
I'm in the boat where I did rush and have two kids and then I left the church. It's incredibly painful. I got a therapist just to work through the trauma of having lost my young adulthood because I trusted the church that made poor decisions about my life for me.
🌞 Dear Page, ❤️ Be true to your nature & essence. Learn to trust your intuition & 6th sense. What is your soul calling for? When woman 🌷plant flower's, go swimming, take leisure walk's, 🍋 have a good diet with vitamin's, mineral's & 🐟 fish oil, use essential oil's & soap's, listen to relaxing music & cultivate good friend's you have alot in common with their identity & intution is strengthened. Stay close to your family. Stop elevating other people to God status over your path & destiny. 🐬 S.M.
🌞 If you pray or meditate do it toward's the east. It's the way the universe work's. It help's people feel grounded & more secure in following their path. 🐬 S.M.
"Untethered" is the word I use to describe the feelings of shock, betrayal and disillusionment I felt during my faith transition 15 years ago at the age of 40. Unmoored. Every piece of my life had been upended. It took me roughly 2 1\2 years to emerge from the depression that the psychological chaos of the church's intentional duplicity wrought. Fantastic podcast. 🍒+FLAK=Conundrum
As someone who thought I was asexual and found out I was a lesbian, I would describe my feelings about sex similarly. I wondered so much why I didn’t like having sex with men, but chalked it up to trauma or just not liking sex. We need better education worldwide, throughout religion and schools and society
1:31:42 This podcast is so amazing! Just wanted to pop in here bc you mentioned Lutheranism. It's true that there probably isn't similar things going on in the mainstream Lutheran church but there are several different sects inside the Lutheran church which are very similar to LDS as far as the demands etc. go. I grew up in Laestadian Lutheran Church (LLC) and the experience I had is very similar to the experiences people have had in Mormonism. Obviously the doctrine is different but for example the attitudes towards people leaving, family, relationships and who goes to heaven is so similar. Your podcast is so awesome because it helps so many people outside LDS as well.
I grew up in that same church as you, as well. I’ve really enjoyed listening to these podcasts because of all the similarities. I wish there was a podcast on the LLC stories! :)
I relate to this so much- also born in Vancouver WA, also spent time at BYU-I, also exmo, same age group with similar harmful experiences :/ I’m just glad I got out before I got married.
Okay I looked at the blog and those outfits are FABULOUS. Especially for the time. Making modest look stunning. & several of those outfits I would still wear today. Honestly lol the blog is gold
John is speaking as a Ph.D. in clinical psychology at 1:21:17. He is right. Sexual compatibility is a gamble if the couple are counselled to remain chaste from childhood. In many religions and cultures this is still the expectation and it seems to work out for a lot of couples. But there are many where it doesn't. I think an added reason for sexual problems in marriage is the church never really talks about anything sexual. I know the Unitarians and Quakers have programs where human sexuality is discussed before marriage. The Roman Catholic church will not marry couples unless they have taken pre-marital counselling. Some forms of Judaism also have counselling for couples. However I used to attend evangelical churches where there was none of this. Those couples also experience incompatibility, shame, and lack of communication about sexual desire.
I come from a high demand christian background and so many parallels. I have been going through my own crisis of faith. So much of this resonates with me, and is what I needed. Thank you for sharing.
Wow. Thanks for such thoughtful insight and for taking this time from your lives to share. This is the 3-4th podcast I’ve watched. Im always skeptical, as I grew up in the church w baptism at 8 and temple (Washington DC) sealing to Dad Mom 2 bro. I danced for many years and traveling on weekends started at about age13. I remember Mom saying that she hoped I didn’t always have class or rehearsal on Sundays and gave a weak protest, as if I would even THINK of missing dance class. I LOOOOOVED dancing and competing and learning and moving and breathing dance. All of it.Aaaaaanyway… I’ll forever be thankful that I started going to non holy and irreverent practices on those Sundays to prepare to perform in Spain! . I’m glad I stood my ground and Mom was open minded, bc I gave my ALL to it and danced until I was mid 20s and then again in my 30s w 2 of my kiddos! I had some bad experiences in church as youth. The young girls were sneaky and mean and allowed to be. Not all. Ioved a few like family. I was inactive from age 13 to 23, when my Grandma died. Mom and I knew we had to do Grandmas “work”. Our temple was in Chicago, now its Indianapolis. I, overall, when w the sisters… felt loved and cherished and heard and supported. LOVED) I’ll always say if I get to meet my “maker”…I’ll ask WHY so hard to have n keep love. WHY. SO. HARD???? Lol. What’s the deal w men. For real. LOVED camp. Music (I play piano so I couldn’t NOT have a calling….EVER.🙄 Thru the years I knew about - thru RELIABLE sources - or witnessed - youth molestation by youth being kept a secret from the law. Men know best, now now. I remember not EVER feeling comfortable in the Bishops office. Ever A few were real pieces of work. I witnessed budgets being blatantly wrongly and unfairly allocated. I’ve seen one of the Bishops (he wasn’t mine) get out of his car and come up to my husbands side of the car and scream at him for “almost hitting him back by the church” . I mean arm swinging in the air and pointing to where my husband had allegedly accosted him and nearly taken his life. Haha. It’s a school zone! Nice Bishop! Real nice Sam! Good job Buddy. Glad we decided to bring the kids out this Sunday. Really helped our already rocky marriage and feeling of love and safety. I’ve seen a Bishop (also wasn’t mine) gaslight his wife for years and leave her at age 55 for another woman. They married when she was 16 and had 4 wonderful girls that I babysat regularly. They are FAMILY. So yeah. I could go on and on. ***BUUUTTT! I was in tears when you talked about sex and the shame then excitement then shame then fun then… I can FEEL that entire section of this interview. (And several other things too) I see a person with huge faith and love for others. A true believer of making things work. I have a good slice of that also. I give a bloke a million chances. Not anymore. Lol. But this sexual confusion continues. Best sex ever when married to my kids dad. Only 1-2 since divorce in 2012. I’m fine. That tells me I really have to feel loved and really love and trust to be able to enjoy it. He’s the same way. And here we sit. Apart. 😕 Aaanyway…again…I can remember numerous sad times before marriage, just berating myself. Horribly. I’ve done it for years. I’ve jus RECENTLY wondered about asexuality. That’s for another time. Haha. I just want to say that I felt a lot of things today and I’ve never related so well with an ex Mormon story like with yours. I can feel the feelings that I KNOW you had when disappointment came. Over and over. I can hear the hurt when you tell about it. It’s a familiar ache. You are so good to people and can’t, for the life of you, figure out why they can’t just be as thoughtful, kind, caring, helpful, friendly, forgiving, as you. Right. Expecting yourself from others? I did for years. Still catch myself doing it. It sucks. It like we can’t fathom someone not thinking to call us when they knew we were down. Or just stopping by with lunch or coffee or a 6 pack! Or flowers!! Because that’s what we do! Used to! 😔. I’m really lonely. I’ve never said that in my life. I’ve always been completely content alone. I still am I just don’t want to burden my kids. Ever,,, . I HATE settling, so I just stopped. Friendships. Loves. All of it. I had to. Self preservation. I wish you all the love in the world. It is, after all, all there is, right?? ❤️ lol. That was sooo lovely when you said that at the end. Ive always told my kids that we are here to love one another, our religion should just be world love. And that our true test or most important or biggest etc, is how we treat others. That is all I’m capable of working out and worrying over. I know I’m loved by God. I know I’m good to people. Good to my babies. They are 16-18-20. I love them so much I could burst sometimes. Mucho amore.
Voluntary childlessness at 2:00::40. The church doesn't a great job at dealing with women who either can't have children due to infertility, or women who just choose not to have children. The Family Proclamation even states that children have a right to be born by couples. The whole rhetoric is eternal families. Singles who make up the majority of membership of the church are also left out of this plan.
We think of ourselves as intelligent enlightened humans and then we can believe in so much nonsense and allow this nonsense to rule our lives. We believe in religious books written by ancient backwards people and we will follow and believe it without any proof, knowing that most of it is so magical/supernatural that it is impossible to be true.
They're just the baby-makers. Don't have any aspirations higher than that. Just keep pumping out the kids and be grateful that God is allowing you to even do that!
I agree Sam. Getting divorced was one of the best things I've ever done. I'm grateful for the time we had together and glad that we're moving on to a new season of life. It's not a failure. It's an ending and a new beginning. AKA life.
Great interview! Also loved Sam’s comments around the 2:28 mark. Thank you for acknowledging that morality, community, and healthy lifestyles can and do happen without religion. This is such an important point that many religious people consistently fail to understand.
I am not a Mormon but I have found this channel and several others I have found through John to be so interesting. I am usually into just true crime but it’s just something about these stories of people escaping and truly experiencing freedom that has my full attention. Keep up the good work John of educating everyone.
In 2006 I met this girl, we started having sex and she was my girlfriend and then she told me that she would like me to go with her to church one Sunday and I said ok, and it was LDS. I was open minded and just went down a year path so that we could get married in the temple. I was 28 at the time. We were having a ton of sex and then as soon as we said we were getting married we stopped for a year. I joined the priesthood and finally got to temple marriage. The following couple of days I came out of my year long daze and realized i did not want to be married. I tried for a year but then it ended. I have always led my own life, and that year I certainly gave up that freedom. She eventually quickly found another guy whom was mormon and are living happily ever after,
You share incredible stories, amazing the way mormon people live and how oppresive their religion is. I used to be a Jehova's witness for more than 30 years and what i see is that we are not the only crazy people in the world 😁😁. Thanks for helping others.
I grew up Pentecostal and it’s good to know other Jesus based religions can go through the same things I did, especially if they’re as extreme as the Pentecostal denomination is.
Chandler, I hope you work on.loving yourself. I hear a lot of guilt in how you speak about you. You are amazing, girl. You made it though alot and are healing generations of women who have sat quietly instead of speaking out!
I am a cradle Episcopalian, and you are right, there will never be an "Episcopalian Podcast". The class that we did in our teens for confirmation was called "Confirm, Not Conform", and we literally spent one of the classes going through the Nicene Creed, and openly sharing the things that we struggled with believing (ex: the virgin birth, the idea of a physical resurrection, the idea that Jesus died for our sins as opposed to the idea that he died because he pissed off the people that were in power, etc.). By the way, none of us were shamed for our questions, and, while, some of our ideas were challenged, it was more just to make us think, rather than to suggest that we were bad or wrong. I have always been given the freedom to question and wonder. That said, I did live in the Bible Belt, and some of my peers who grew up in more fundamentalist churches did cause me to experience some spiritual abuse when I was young, and I am grateful that my parents didn't raise me in that type of religious environment. Especially since I have struggled with dysthymia, anxiety, and double depression on and off throughout my life.
I had a hard time with that comment- I grew up in the Anglican church and had similar experiences in terms of theological discussions growing up, and I agree that that's a huge difference. I was lucky to see really diverse examples of what it meant to be Anglican/Christian. That said, when I left the church I lost my whole community overnight, as well as feeling like I had lost a sense of purpose in my life. And that did lead me to a very deep depression. Over a decade later I am absolutely still working through that loss. I can only speak for myself- but I do know that Mormon Stories has a pretty sizeable audience who have never been Mormon, and I suspect I am not alone in finding it relatable and valuable content because of experiences leaving other faiths.
@@charlottehenderson7884 The Anglican Church is a bit stricter than the Episcopal Church on some things. Also, there is a difference between low church and high church, and the church that I was raised in was very low church, so that could have been one of the differences. There is a normal curve in every population, so I might have been on one end of the curve, and you might have been on the other end of the curve.
@UC2Sx9xlwswyqoE2j59mWrnA Just so you know, I have a degree in psychology, and I work in mental healthcare, and while I understand that a collaborative approach can help with mental healthcare, I am also well aware of the genetic link in the chain. I do best with taking SSRI medication for my anxiety and dysthymia. I have been coping with it most of my life, and some people just don't have the same level of serotonin that other people have. My whole family has struggled with mood disorders and anxiety most of our lives, and have needed medical support for these issues.
Maybe Chandler should’ve pursued her FIRST question- “what about the dinosaurs?”. lol. Seriously, leaving another high demand Religion (Catholicism- in the 50’s-60’s), I relate to so much here. Thank you Chandler and MSP
Raised Mormon in Provo, studied 29 years ago to figure out if the church was true. And left 29 years ago. So happy to be Catholic the church Christ left us....
Wow, I’ve been out of the church for a long time now (left when I was about 13) but my family is still Mormon (ok, so for them I’ll refer to it as LDS). All of these old memories have come back listening to this. I do get it, even after all these years, I totally see why, unless you’ve been brought up in the religion, it’s hard to understand how this all feels and what a pull the church has on you. I hate to say it but some of the members are kind of cruel when you present something that doesn’t fit entirely on “how it’s done”. My dad recently passed away and we were really close. I was devastated, as were my two young sons. My husband (not LDS) also adored my dad. It was terribly hard on all of us. It was tradition to have male family members as pall bearers in tiny family’s ward (don’t know if it’s church tradition generally or not) but I refused to have my kids do it as neither wanted to and they were just too young, just little boys. We were ignored and they were publicly pressured to do it which emotionally tortured them (they couldn’t deal with his dead body in there. It was too soon). They were also refused food by the relief society because they were crying in the car after the service. Apparently it was felt that they should have just sucked it up, acted like men, and followed tradition stoically because that’s how “it’s done”. It just seemed to me that their strict adherence to what they viewed as Mormon tradition prevented any exhibition of humanity. They were only in elementary school for heavens sake.
How sad Shari Thompson. So much control over people even when they are grieving over a loved one. I have a hard time understanding this concept as I have never experienced this in my religion. It makes me very sad that people have to go through this and the damage it causes. That is not Christianity!
Leaving Mormonism ruined God for me because it forced me to rethink every belief I've ever had. For the first time, I took a very objective look at the Bible and I realized very quickly that the god of Christianity is genocidal. Then I realized that if I've had such powerful spiritual experiences that lead me to believe so fervently that one false religion was the only true one, it would be wrong for me to assume that my spiritual experiences were any less powerful or valid than someone else's who believes in a completely different religion. By that logic, since we can't all be right about fundamentally different religions, then none of us can be right. I have total respect for people who choose to have religious beliefs, but it's not something I can subscribe to.
I wish I could truly express my feelings at the moment. I met my husband at 17 got married at barely 18 by 25 I already had 3 kids which I love deeply! But I’m 30 now and I struggle..everything is hitting me now..
I am still spiritual having left the LDS church, but I am extremely weary of religon, and I miss my Mormon Community....I miss the good parts, but I don't agree withe some of the LDS priniciples anymore, and I don't want to follow it.
Both of these women are amazing! So intelligent, articulate, beautiful, and strong. I’m so happy for them that they broke free from the cult and that they are speaking out to educate other people, especially women!
It is a terribly sad thing that many LDS women have faced being sexually abused and then made the sinner. There is nothing quite like having to confess your "sin" while in the midst of PTSD. I hope that leaders will come to listen. There are many young minds in your hands! By their fruits, you shall know them....Utah's highest rate of pornography use, men abusing their own children because their marriage has no sexual satisfaction and they have been set up to make such a horrendous decision, huge use of antidepressants (women not happy), forced smiles, so many things are wrong. FIX the tree. Prune it!! Leaders if you care, change!!!!!
It is so hard to reconcile sexual abuse (abuse of all types really, I dont mean to exclude other types) and rape with any kind of religion and belief system. They all fail to adequately explain the suffering of innocents. I really relate to the later part of this interview.
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I’m not even Mormon and I’m addicted to this podcast lol 😂
Same 😂
Haha me too. I can’t quite explain why. I think it just makes me so happy seeing people finding their way out of a high demand religion and finding freedom, peace and happiness. Plus all the mormon rules and temple stuff is super interesting.
SAME
Same!
@@christinam6430 You just did an excellent job explaining why. For me it's all those things, as well as how learning about high demand groups helps me contextualize cult-like elements in my own life.
Bad marriages at 2:14:31. I had a counsellor in a stake presidency who told me once "you don't have to die to go to hell. Just be stuck in a really bad marriage." He is right. My great grandmother's advice is a woman should know a man for at least a year before getting married. They need to see how he behaves in all four seasons.
Honestly that's pretty good advice for anyone
4 seasons is true-- but dont get stuck on the number of days... you need to experience each other in grief/sorrow, elation, power and vulnerability. its imperative to see the 4 faces of coping.
@ Scott: yes, a very wise elderly woman told me, "Marriage can be heaven on earth ..... or, it can be hell on earth. Choose wisely". I heeded her advice, took my time and am so glad I did. Happily married for 20+ years now (non-Mormon). Thankful for that wisdom.
I dated my husband for more than year before we married. He was lured by his brother away from me because his family didn't like my attention to him. We were together almost 2 years before he took off. I don't know where he's at today or if he's alive.
Also live together before you get married.
"I always have to remind myself this isn't forever--this feeling
isn't forever--and I'm going to be okay." Thank you for this quote, it's going up on my wall. And for everything the three of you shared! 💜
So beautiful! Maya Angelou said, "Every storm runs out of rain." I think that has the same energy and thought I would share 🧡
@@stinaplomgren7356 Thank you. I love it ❤❤❤
Thanks for that comment! I just wrote down the quote and will also be putting it on my wall. It's a very powerful reminder that "this too shall pass." I like the way she said it better, though :)
This made me cry. I could so relate to Chandler’s feelings. I left a Mennonite church a year ago. It’s been the most terrifying but awesome experience!!
Good for you. I hope sincerely that it's been a good experience to this day, that you're doing well, and that you've found success and happiness out in the world. My deepest hope for everyone who leaves a high control group is that people make an effort to show them that there is a place for each of them out here in the world with the rest of us, and that they may not have the same tight communities, but they can make community out here, and there will be good people willing to be a part of that community. Wishing you the best of luck. Take good care of yourself.
Give yourself a lot of credit for your bravery. You are strong and will be fine
@@Honey_Daddy This is so nice. 🥹 Thank you! I have found an awesome community that I wouldn’t trade for anything, but it took time!
@@heatherjoslin8291 Thank you ☺️ you’re so kind!
@@nicolejohnson638 you're welcome. :) Im so happy for you. I imagine it was tough, but you've clearly come a long way already in just a year. Keep it up!
Oh my gosh. I didn't leave the LDS/Mormon church until I was 28, and so much of what Chandler shared is so relatable.
Hope you've found your place in the world outside the church.
I love how Samantha is like I WILL BURN THIS WHOLE THING DOWN and John is like quieter with his anger. I think that makes sense because if you've been a woman or femme presenting in these churches you are always used to silencing your voice and when you get out all you want is to be heard. loved this episode it helped me reach out to my own community of ex members here's to healing and sharing our stories
It's even tougher when you go through all that at the ripe old age of 70. I've been so angry. Afraid of losing my kids and grandkids when they found out. It's lonely. I don't trust any religion now. Crazy times.
My heart goes out to you. I cannot imagine how painful it must be, and yet I still wish that my parents would see the light and wake up to the truth so that we can spend what little time we have left together. The LDS cult takes up so much time!
💕 I'm sending you all my love, Suzy. I'm a never Mormon, but I grew up in Christianity. I went through an anger phase like many do. I can't imagine how you are feeling, but I hope that you are able to find peace. I feel like I've found my own slice of peace through processing it.
My heart aches for you. I know that has to be so frustrating and confusing. Sending lots of love your way! 🥰🤗
Mine started at my late 20's and I was on and off untill two years ago at 48. I'm done now for two years and I have no interest in joining any religion ever, I gave it a good go. The anger phase was in my late 20's early 30's, I felt so duped, I left my country for ten years and left my religion behind then my husband died and I came back, gave it a shot for the past ten years but I just came to the realisation that it is one big brainwashing and manipulation and paying your tithes were more important than your well being. They did not support me one bit after my husband's death they only wanted money from me. I just had enough being bossed around by our church leaders(priests, elders, profits, apostles) that are only men because women are there to have kids, make coffee and bake cakes for the church. We were nothing but support for our husbands and after I remarried with someone from my church I became voiceless, I had no right to speak to any leaders in my church, I had to go through my husband. There were so many rules and even though we are not Mormon and the Bible is what we swear by we are very much the same when it comes to certain aspects. I am at my happiest when I'm not at church and not having some strange man trying to tell my husband and I how to live our lives. Fortunately my husband felt the same way as I and we both decided to leave. His parents aren't happy but they stopped harassing us about it.
I commented on part 1 but I want to comment again on how much I enjoyed this. I love that the host let's the guest really speak freely and express her truth and doesn't interrupt whilst at the same time keeping the interview on track and giving explanations for things that someone who doesn't know Mormonism wouldn't know. Its fascinating to hear what other cultures and religions go through. All 3 such delightful people and I can't wait to listen to more from this channel!
Totally agree with you, especially about John's excellent hosting style 👌.
I like the fact that when a person talks about how much they loved something to do with or about the church he doesn't discredit it. Even though there are so many things the mormon church does wrong they do have some good qualities and people can have good experiences.
I can sooo relater to Chandler's story. I left the church at 21 after divorcing from a 2-year marriage. It was 1973, and the height of the sexual revolution. Between escaping the LDS purity culture and the revolutionary societal changes in sexual attitudes of that era I lost myself -- because I never knew myself to begin with. It took years for me to find balance and understand who I was and what I wanted. When you grow up in Mormonism you are not well prepared to go out into the "real" world, so you can be easily exploited. I never regretted leaving the church, but the exit was brutal.
I agree, I went through something similar.
As someone raised an evangelical/fundamentalist christian, there is WAY more in common with mormonism than differences, so I'm shocked to hear that evangelicals think they're such an exception.
Chandler should do public speaking, not only is her story (part 1 and 2) incredible but her empathy for others, resilience, and insights about life are inspiring 💛
These video interviews are saving lives. As a Therapist I have met with men and women, teens and younger who have horror stories they are hiding from the world. The biggest fear is often the shunning. Like a pack of wild dogs that will be push out . Made to be an outcast and left to die alone. The shameful Mormon feels alone to their core.
Thank you all for doing this!
Yes, that's the worst part. I'm so glad as a therapist you understand this. I'm a retired therapist myself. My sister and I had to cut off contact with our family because of the emotional abuse. Sometimes that is unfortunately necessary.
My condolences for all those who have lost years and part of themselves by these predatory religious organizations. There nothing better than owning yourself. Thank you for this podcast!
Totally with you. These religious organizations are 99% run by men and instill fear in healthy sexuality. Its so ridiculous to see this as an outsider, free from control. I feel bad for those that feel trapped and cant get out because their whole family is brainwashed in it. Its like a cult. *sigh*
Thanks for your podcasts. I was a fully committed born again tongue talking fundy Christian that had a faith crisis in 1986. Your show is more validating than any show or person than I have found.
Aww that sounds interesting. Anyone who left pre-internet is fascinating to me because there's less information and less community to rely on while transitioning out.
@@fellowviewer1095
Yes no community at all. I still miss that part. I’ve never been good at meeting people or making friends. I was divorced by January of 1990 and had five children to take care of so I was busy but lonely.
I was born and raised in Utah in a hard core Mormon area right up the street from a church. My parents gave us the freedom to peruse any belief we wanted. Listening to this has really made me reflect on long term issues. I developed an eating disperser at 15, became an alcoholic at 17. Of course other factors contributed but it’s interesting reflecting now and also on my family dynamic.
That would be a fascinating interview Kynlee. If you’re interested.
What wonderful respectful intelligent parents you have!
I never realized how much leaving the church has affected me. I left at 19 and I’m still angry about how controlling and destructive the church was. I wasn’t Mormon but I was part of a super Christian group in Tennessee. There are so many similarities
Thank you for this, it was super interesting. My current boyfriend is ex-mormon and went through a very painful divorce before completely leaving the church. They met at BYUI and got married at 23 after dating for only a month! This episode gave me some insight into what things might've been like for him. Over time I've come to know his story more but there are still things he's healing from everyday. It doesn't help that his mother is constantly encouraging him to re-join. The trauma that he went through because of the LDS church will always live with him. I wish Chandler and everyone else who has been brave enough to leave this constraining religion the best in their life.
Can I ask if he was specifically mormon or just LDS? I've been trying to distinguish between the two because I have a couple friends that fall into different categories...I think. It's super confusing. One of my new friends married my neighbor after knowing him less than a year (they met at BYU) and I would love to be there to support her in what must be an extremely difficult and confusing road ahead. They are still entrenched in the mormon church and seem to be "happy" there for the time being. So difficult to know what to say.
@@Literaturelover73 The LDS church and Mormon are the same. Except for the Fundamentalist (FLDS) who aren’t
@susaneweinberg4411 ah. Part of the confusion is that Mormons themselves insist that they are not "mormon". So are the Fundamentalists even MORE Fundamentalist? Yipe
Thanks you for sitting for this interview, Chandler!!!
Samantha added a ton of insight to this interview. Super effective co-host! Went into this interview not confident I would connect with it and left feeling I better understand myself and what happened to me in important ways. The interplay between Samantha’s similar experience, her insights after years of reflection, her intelligence, COMBINED with John’s deep MSP interviewing experience and psychology education and training-resulted in something quite beautiful. Really appreciate all the super high quality content.
This occasional variety, pairing a deep, thoughtful co-host with a compatible interviewee, is a potent recipe. Adds even more meaningful insights IMO.
Thank you Craig!!!
Totally agree. I wasn't expecting to connect much with this interview but everything about it was great. Chandler, Sam and John all did a great job and Chandler is super intelligent and well-spoken.
When I saw the title of young mormon marriage.. I thought it would be younger.. I unfortunately got married at 18.. I am not longer married. I tried to make it work for 28 years. 28 years of a nightmare.. Ruined my life.. My childrens.. All because I didnt want the shaming life.. This interview brought up lots of hard emotions. I Thank you so much for your podcasts. My life has been the church and their beliefs.. This girl is lucky she is only 28.. Im much older and feel my life is over and feeling so hopeless
You can be anything you want from this point on, be free you deserve it!! I can guarantee you that you have so much happiness and love ahead of you, your life’s not over we can be reborn again FOREVER ❤️🦋
I’m so proud of you for leaving. I’m sorry you feel hopeless. I hope you have brighter days ahead 💕
No, no, your life is NOT over! It's just different now but it can be the birthing signs of something very wonderful to come, please believe this. Don't let the church win but take it one day at a time to enjoy each new day now. I'm not Mormon but there is no perfect life, we all have our struggles. But each day is a clean blank page for us to write a beautiful story. Do that, you deserve it and your children deserve to have you joyfully living in their lives. Much love to you xx.
This below, has been a huge help to me to make the most of the days I have left:
"Don't wait for things to get better.
Life will always be complicated.
Learn to be happy right now,
Otherwise you'll run out of time."
@@ivinskiwi384 Thank you.. This is beautiful💗💗
Many, many famous people didn't become accomplished until 40 or 50 or even 60.
Just don't give up on yourself.
For all my Mormon Stories friends, I wish you all a warm and peaceful holiday season & a healthy and prosperous new year. I value this podcast and the community of people who contribute to it so very much. You are all such a blessing to so many.
Wow, so much said here that was too familiar. Married at 23, 2.5 years later divorced and being told by the bishop that I would be held accountable for my soon to be ex-husbands sins since I did not "out" him when interviewed for temple recommend. I stood up from my chair so fast that it tipped over, leaned across his desk and said, "This is not the church that I was taught about ...cannot be held accountable for Adams transgressions...and you can ride your white horse straight to hell." I left the church that day, but struggled for decades will I be the one going to hell because I left the "only true church". Conclusion God is Love not punishment. Thank you for having this discussion.
You didn't leave the true church, you left a lie.
Oh my gosh, Chandler's story about her second marriage is quite similar to mine!! I was like 80 out 20 in (that might've been with her first one, I can't remember), but ultimately after 3.5 years I realized that I didn't in fact want kids after all. There were other compatibility issues and some of those were about the church, but we were both decently set on working through that all. But once I realized that I really didn't want kids, and he eventually was like hey let's buy a house and have kids, we both had to realize that that's not something you should compromise on. It'll cause resentment on both sides.
Thankfully our split has been very amicable. He's an amazing person and I do love him so much. We're even still in the same dnd group together, now that it's been almost a year and we had time alone to mourn and grieve the loss of our relationship. It was hard. Because I knew it would never be the same again. I hated that we had to hurt our families by saying we weren't going to be together anymore. I hated thinking about how our Christmas just recently had been our last Christmas together with our families and each other. Damn, even still, saying this does hurt. But it also has been so freeing for me, and hopefully him too, to not feel stuck living the way I always thought I had to live. 💛
I had a conversation yesterday with my boyfriend. I’m post-mormon he is lukewarm mormon but the way he speaks makes me think he wants to go back while the thought of going back, for me, is akin to setting myself on fire. I’m terrified our differences regarding this major topic will destroy our relationship and I told him. I love him but I fear how it may effect our future. The church has taken something from me and I am so fearful that it will take this too. He has done everything to assuage my fear but it’s there.
I just found this podcast, and I've been listening all day, lol. I grew up catholic, and this sounds SO similar! Shame, guilt, unquestioning obedience... so relatable to my own experience growing up catholic!
You experienced the religion without the genuine relationship with God. Sadly that is sooo common in every religion.
I had a Mormon copilot years ago when I was flying bombers while in the Air Force, we became good friends and I respected his flying skills. I never really understood his religion but never the less I came to respect his faith and his values. I'm a non-believer and not quite an atheist but my copilot was a great guy and I would gladly fly into combat with him any day.
Amazing episodes! Chandler is resilient, wise, and thoroughly charming. I'm so glad she shared her story. I absolutely love Sam as a co-host, she always has really interesting and insightful questions and comments.
Starting around 2:10:35 - you said it @John Dehlin. The “scarlet letter” of the second divorce and the stigma of it… so true. I left the church in 2005, I left him in 2007 (divorced in 2009). I got married the 2nd time in 2012, and divorced him in 2018. Even being out of the church for 16.5 years, I STILL feel the shame of the #2. I won’t even date and plan to never marry again. I’ve commented before about my abusive 1st husband (temple marriage) - I suffered so many years all because of church teachings. My second marriage failed because he was an addict and was not faithful to me.And for some dang reason I still feel shame for being divorced twice!
I could relate to a lot of Chandler’s story. Thanks for being willing to talk about these tough topics.
When I was 14 the son of 2nd counselor in the Bishopric touched my breasts without my consent. When I went in for the yearly worthiness interview (or it was for a youth temple trip- can’t remember now), his DAD told me that I was “trying to grow up too fast” and shamed ME (because his son had a lust attraction for me.) It was so horrible for me because I felt so violated. I never told him what his son did to me either. In the church’s POV, it’s ALWAYS the girls fault if the boys can’t control themselves!!! And girls are taught this from a very young age. It’s so harmful and disgusting.
John, as an ex mild Methodist, I laughed out loud at “There is no Methodist Stories Podcast”. I feel so lucky that my faith transition to being Athiest was semi-easy. Thank you all. It was becoming a cult watcher that made me look at at my Christian beliefs that opened my eyes. ✌🏼❤️ to all.
Personally I think all religions have cultish aspect to it, it's all brainwashing and every religion/church believe they are the one and only.
My high school Lutheran girlfriend seemed to have similar pressures to be pure and all the feelings of guilt and shame that Mormons teach.
@@honeybunch5765 I am a part of a VERY liberal denomination called the United Church of Christ. It is an environment that is as much about asking the questions as providing answers. Our catchphrase is "No matter who you are or where you are on life's journey, you are welcome here." It is a space where LGBTQ folk are embraced, diversity is encouraged, social and environmental justice are prioritized. It IS possible to have a community of faith that is not cultish.
@@SDChemey I've been to some very culty liberal churches (or places of worship) but usually the cult aspects revolve around political beliefs or "purity" as opposed to theology.
Andrea, how similar is the Methodist faith to Mormonism?
I want to say I left the Mormon church because I met the Jesus of the Bible, which the LDS religion doesn’t teach. He is the true savior and doesn’t condone fear in order to serve Him.
Samantha is a great co host. Love her well thought out thinking out loud words of love and healing.
I love her as a person, but as a host I think her views are too extreme and she seems to struggle to relate to nuances.
Chandler - at least you were 22 when you discovered the CES letter and these truths that they hid from us and not 40! Glad you found out when you did! All those thigns that you described with your first marriage are things that my wife and have had to deal with after 20 years into marriage. I'm so glad that you found these things out early on.
omg when she said she felt like she was plopped into the world with a baby brain. That’s so specific and so real. Like I had no idea how to deal with the realities of the real world after accepting the church wasn’t true. I felt like everyone else had a huge head start on ~everything~
John, your channel is so interesting. Thank you. I joined JWs at age 36 and woke up 3 years ago. I’m now 75. I’m no longer interested in organized religion. The Mormon culture is parallel to JWs. I had no idea! I’m so grateful I wasn’t raised in the org as I was able to escape with far less damage. Still devastating but nothing like born-ins. When I left people said I was looking for an excuse to stop serving God. So disrespectful.
Thank you to your and your interviewees they are all so honest and transparent. Keep up the excellent work.
Thank you Cheryl!!! So glad you are with us!!!
Ex JW also so many things similar. Shunned by almost all people I knew, its no fun. I´m so done with all religions and god. I`m finally free and trying to find my own way of living MY life. Growing up as girl I had my box I should fit, but I didnt. I tried so hard, but it didnt work.
The JW faith is NOT like the LDS they don’t celebrate Christmas, birthdays, Easter, 🐣 don’t believe in keeping the sabbath day Holy, don’t take the sacrament, don’t believe in the priesthood, they don’t believe that there’s a spirit that leaves the body at death, they don’t believe in a afterlife, JWs believe that death is oblivion until the resurrection that it’s like waking up after being asleep I. Was brought up in the JW faith but not baptised into it I left at age 16 and became a Latter day saint at age 24 I’m 68 now and I’m still a Latter Day Saint which is fullness of the gospel and I believe that Joseph Smith was and still is a prophet I don’t believe that the people in the church are perfect they are definitely not and I’m not perfect but the fullness of the gospel is true and nothing anyone says can convince me otherwise!
Sam is very insightful, wise, and well-spoken. There were several times she said incredible things and then negated it by saying things like sorry I am talking too much or delete that. And I just wanted to say you don't need to do that, you added so much value and it was all worth hearing.
I thought the exact same!
It STILL makes me SO angry how much pressure tscc puts on young people to marry early. My mission president told me, as I was leaving for home, "I don't want to hear anything from you unless it's a wedding invitation. That's your mission now. To find your eternal companion and bring children to this earth." I didn't have my education, hadn't dated a lot growing up, and didn't have any concept of what I wanted to do with my life or how to navigate adulthood.
Sounds like ur mission president haven't heard from you for a long time 😂 if you follow ur own late realization
@@merricat3025 That is very true, and a major pull for many young Mormon people.
My mission president told me to marry the First man who asked me. And, of course, we are conditioned to do what church leaders tell us to do. And, as soon as I returned home my father asked me, "Did you meet anyone?" He also wanted me to attend BYU for the express purpose of finding a "return missionary" to marry. The pressure is so unbelievable.
People do joked about it...while at BYU...What degree are you going for? My M.R.S. degree. Lol
@@merricat3025 I was there (BYU) in 2001 lol and we were joking about it.
Yes to the response about being unable to "flip the switch" when you get married about sexuality! So frustrating! UGH.
I was an evangelical Christian (born again from a very strong experience at age 23 of my own accord) and I love this podcast so much. I personally have gone through deconstruction and I am agnostic at this point. I personally came to this place because of an emotionally abusive marriage where I prayed for many many years for things to change and it only got worse. It was a huge loss to lose my faith, but I started to see The God taught to me as toxic (like my former spouse.). I am left to process this pretty much 100% on my own unfortunately.
I’m so very sorry that you’re going through this alone. My heart hurts for you. If I can send any comfort, humans are free to choose. God is able to change us, but only if we want/allow Him to. I am so sorry for all of the pain and emotional trauma you endured. My heart yearns for you. People fail us. I’m sorry that someone who was supposed to be a help to you was toxic to you. You are loved!!!
Hi John. So I just wanted to give my opinion as someone who's experienced SA. Sometimes during this video, these events were brought up in a sort of casual sounding way, and this can feel minimizing due to how traumatic these events can be. I think in this particular talk I think you could have held back on bringing these things up in some instances. That being said, from what I've seen you are usually very respectful and honest with how you talk about these topics, which I really appreciate. Thank you for what you're doing here! I love your content!
The stuff Chandler said around 1:40 resonates with me sooooo much! I just got divorced at the end of January. It's super sad. I think he's a great guy and I'm grateful that he's a good father to my kids. And yet, getting divorced and moving out is the best thing I've ever done! I feel so good right now! Chandler worded it so well. I feel like I can actually ask myself what I want for the first time in my life. I'm not owned by someone else. I can actually make choices that are right for me and not just in service to everyone else. I can actually get to know who I truly am. It's absolutely amazing!
I remember the exact moment when I realized that every man in my life had control OVER my whole life.... my husband, my bishop, the prophet, apostles, Joseph Smith and finally, God. I didn't have the words for it, but I finally saw that this religion was a patriarchal system. I had absolutely no control over my body, my sexuality, my life, and even my mind. I just was over it.
Mormonism ruined organized realigion for me too and also God. I became an athiest for some time. I felt like I had to break everything down to build myself up again with who I really was and what I really believed.
This is one of the best podcasts ever! I find every person's story fascinating. What I find most fascinating is how such seemingly small bits of false information are usually what leads people down their path to leave. I don't want to bash anyone's beliefs here, but I find it interesting that this same logic can be applied to almost any religion, yet people still believe by the billions and don't care much to investigate the truth. I think the difference is Mormonism is so high demand that when the cracks start to show even a little, it leads people down a rabbit hole of discovery.
Great MSP episode as usual! Inspiring and fulfilling to listen to Chandler's stories, experiences, and perspectives. Thank you very much.
She's so inspiring. Love love love this interview.
Wow, I see so much of myself in Chandler. Such similar stories. I'm proud of you girl, you figured it out sooner than me. Enjoy your deliberate & beautiful new life ❤️
My neighbors are Mormon and that gives me a consistent view of how they manage their day to day lives. While I cannot say it's the norm, their marriage was likely more or less arranged through the church as he was an elder from one country and she was a younger woman - from another. They have two girls and one boy. She does virtually everything around the home, including yard work, and management of all home/mechanical chores. I don't think he overtly abuses her, but he does speak to her with contempt and even the boy is verbally abusive to her as well. She is very nice, but completely oblivious to how the simplest of things work, as if she was raised to a certain age in ignorance/purity then married to produce children. I look at those kids and see a future where male preference and female submission is a virtue and think to myself, if I treated children like that, I would be locked up.
@@brocktonstockton4052 I don't engage with her because, while nice, she has the mind of a child and it breaks my heart to see a fellow human being wrapped in doctoral ignorance. On the corollary, the couple on the other side of me are both clinical psychologists and are far more insightful and interesting to engage with. If I was to seduce a married woman, I'd choose her just for the pillow talk.
Ironically, Joseph Smith was killed by husbands of women (and daughters) he seduced, so your comment is rich.
@@waynemills206 I didn’t read into your comment any such supposition as Brockton Stockton’s accusation. What a weird comment to make.
Anyway, your description reminds me a bit of my own (Roman Catholic) parents, although somewhat less severe. The good news is that I moved on.
My highly dysfunctional parents had nevertheless treated me with kindness and indulgence when I was a little girl, and I think that provided a foundation on which I later was able to build a healthy life with an equal-partner husband.
But I do still struggle with interacting with my mother respectfully. It’s been ingrained in me to treat her with disdain, derision, contempt - whatever.
I necessarily moved far away from home. The physical distance was very helpful.
When my children were preschool-aged, my parents came to our house to visit for several days. On the second day, my mother volunteered to do some task or another. One of the children said matter-of-factly that she shouldn’t be the one to do it because she wasn’t good at it. The child had gotten that message from watching my dad criticize her repeatedly.
I realized that I had been taught from a very very young age that my mother was worthless. The thing is, adults tend to identify with our parents, whether we want to or not. Your neighbor’s child has learned to hate his mother. By the time he is an adult, unless he takes steps to understand and change, he will hate himself just as much.
@@pechaa Thanks for sharing your story. I think Brockton's response was specifically crafted to suggest I ignore behaviors that do not comport with social health. That parents should not be questioned or challenged because of genetic exclusivity. Breaking that wheel is tantamount to encouraging children to learn how to solve collective problems all humans will encounter in the future.
My lamentations are not about humans being consistently rational, but rather identifying the known and correctable ideologies that have plagued the human condition since the dawn self awareness. We have better information, data and alternatives to explaining the world we live in that does not involve perpetuating myths and self deception.
@@waynemills206 great answer to Brockton Stockton. People forget that these self- proclaimed prophets were womanizers and abused their positions of power to control their flock! Definitely not Christian and definitely not the teachings of Jesus.
Probably one of my favorite episodes. Haven't been LDS but have been a part of a church that viewed sex & marriage very much that way, as in dont do anything but get married early...I got married early & divorced early & what shes saying is so relatable about both. It was so freeing to move somewhere where people knew me for me & not me as someone's wife, free of that pressure to be perfect, free from the weight of questioning what I did how I related to people every min of my life. What the cohost said about being present was so on point, w/o those pressures of overthinking every action you can be present.
One of the sweetest guests. Thank you for your work ❤
“Why won’t you leave it [the church] alone?
Because it hasn’t left me alone…”
SO TRUE!!!
Incompatibility is difficult not only for yourself, but for your children in the future. Be happy, Chandler!
Having listened to your story I feel a great sadness I am 73 and what I feel that is missing is that you do not have had the opportunity to be yourself. and your Church stood between God and you as a creation in God's likeness. Your immediate task now I believe is to be yourself and learn your own truth You are courageous and honest and I believe God does love you.
Such a great inside look at Mormonism. I went to Salt Lake City, late 70s, from Edmonton, Canada, to visit boyfriends mom. So easy to differentiate mormons from others, they had a plastic look to them. It was a huge culture shock, as I am Indigenous to Canada, and had never seen anything like that before.
Camera cuts to John, "in Samantha's opinion" made me lol 😂❤️. Great production guys ☺️
Being sexually active at 12, regardless of religious convictions is a cause for concern
We’re told to be accountable for our actions and that taking responsibility when we do something wrong is an act of integrity, so the church needs to be able to take the responsibility for its mistakes and the harm it has done. The members need to allow for the church to take responsibility instead of trying to protect it. The church cannot be absolved of any responsibility in the lives of its members. It’s illogical and unhealthy to protect it to that degree.
This was so well articulated, thank you
@@dawn2219 💛
So true!
I have seen Sam in Zelph videos and she always has done amazing but wow she is so great in this. She is so articulate, well spoken, and a great interviewer. I love her and Cara in Mormon Stories.
I could not agree more. They both add so much to the discussions!
“Left over sushi”. That takes bravery to a new level.
Seriously., jokes aside.
Chandler is a survivor. The strength and drive show through. She keeps going. Much respect.
This was EPIC!! I sadly/happily could relate to her experience growing up in the church. I may need a minute to deconstruct again. This stirred up buried emotions. Thanks for sharing Chandler ! ❤🌟❤
My boobs.what if sisterly love was like brotherly love. Old men are not interested in being young men. Old women I don't know .
Stephen, with all due respect, what the hell?
Samantha is a great guest host! ❤️
@@merricat3025 I like Sam more.
@@CarahBurrell heyyy I like them the same damnit!!! 😂
I've just recently started watching the pocast. It just popped up on my feed. I am an EX Jehovah's Witness and listening to the podcast, I plainly hear Mormon but your stories are mine also. No magic undergarments but we had a dress code for absolute sure. My feelings are so similar. Made me realize other religions do this same stupid stuff. Wow!!!!!
Gloria, I was raised in the Baptist church, and I no longer believe in anything in particular, but these Mormon stories also mirror a lot of my own experiences as an ex-Baptist, too.
@@KelseyDunlevy I am just blown away!!! I never knew other religions had people that were unhappy within their religions.
Cool welcome, I’m exmo and I love the jw content, so similar but so different. I love the idea that I was over here in this bubble and your over there in your bubble and we so suspicious of each other but we’re so much the same.
I'm in the boat where I did rush and have two kids and then I left the church. It's incredibly painful. I got a therapist just to work through the trauma of having lost my young adulthood because I trusted the church that made poor decisions about my life for me.
🌞 Dear Page, ❤️ Be true to your nature & essence. Learn to trust your intuition & 6th sense. What is your soul calling for? When woman 🌷plant flower's, go swimming, take leisure walk's, 🍋 have a good diet with vitamin's, mineral's & 🐟 fish oil, use essential oil's & soap's, listen to relaxing music & cultivate good friend's you have alot in common with their identity & intution is strengthened. Stay close to your family. Stop elevating other people to God status over your path & destiny. 🐬 S.M.
🌞 You have your own connection with "the source" of the universe, God, Jesus or what ever you believe in. 🐬 S.M.
🌞 If you pray or meditate do it toward's the east. It's the way the universe work's. It help's people feel grounded & more secure in following their path. 🐬 S.M.
@@elliotbressloer2612 Good to see you again Susie Q!
@@mylesmarkson1686 lol, myles, funny to see your name here...
"Untethered" is the word I use to describe the feelings of shock, betrayal and disillusionment I felt during my faith transition 15 years ago at the age of 40. Unmoored. Every piece of my life had been upended. It took me roughly 2 1\2 years to emerge from the depression that the psychological chaos of the church's intentional duplicity wrought. Fantastic podcast.
🍒+FLAK=Conundrum
As someone who thought I was asexual and found out I was a lesbian, I would describe my feelings about sex similarly. I wondered so much why I didn’t like having sex with men, but chalked it up to trauma or just not liking sex. We need better education worldwide, throughout religion and schools and society
My third marriage lasted 52 years. Never give up. First one was a jack mormon, I’m not but God loves all his children!
My ex and I got married 3 months after I got home from my mission. I didn't know she was paranoid. Still battling her in court to see my 4 kids.
Im so so very sorry.
1:31:42 This podcast is so amazing! Just wanted to pop in here bc you mentioned Lutheranism. It's true that there probably isn't similar things going on in the mainstream Lutheran church but there are several different sects inside the Lutheran church which are very similar to LDS as far as the demands etc. go. I grew up in Laestadian Lutheran Church (LLC) and the experience I had is very similar to the experiences people have had in Mormonism. Obviously the doctrine is different but for example the attitudes towards people leaving, family, relationships and who goes to heaven is so similar. Your podcast is so awesome because it helps so many people outside LDS as well.
I grew up in that same church as you, as well. I’ve really enjoyed listening to these podcasts because of all the similarities. I wish there was a podcast on the LLC stories! :)
@@toriaho4971 Yes I'd like that too! By the way, have you ever been to Suviseurat?
I relate to this so much- also born in Vancouver WA, also spent time at BYU-I, also exmo, same age group with similar harmful experiences :/ I’m just glad I got out before I got married.
Okay I looked at the blog and those outfits are FABULOUS. Especially for the time. Making modest look stunning. & several of those outfits I would still wear today. Honestly lol the blog is gold
Big advocate for discovering whether or not you’re sexually compatible with someone BEFORE marriage!
Fabulous story! Gained much wisdom thanks to Chandler and really enjoyed Samantha's wisdom as well. Thanks to all. Love Mormon Stories! ❤️❤️❤️
John is speaking as a Ph.D. in clinical psychology at 1:21:17. He is right. Sexual compatibility is a gamble if the couple are counselled to remain chaste from childhood. In many religions and cultures this is still the expectation and it seems to work out for a lot of couples. But there are many where it doesn't. I think an added reason for sexual problems in marriage is the church never really talks about anything sexual. I know the Unitarians and Quakers have programs where human sexuality is discussed before marriage. The Roman Catholic church will not marry couples unless they have taken pre-marital counselling. Some forms of Judaism also have counselling for couples. However I used to attend evangelical churches where there was none of this. Those couples also experience incompatibility, shame, and lack of communication about sexual desire.
Former IFB and just ended my second marriage. Refreshing to hear someone who had religious trauma and how it affects marriages
I come from a high demand christian background and so many parallels. I have been going through my own crisis of faith. So much of this resonates with me, and is what I needed. Thank you for sharing.
Why won't you leave the church alone?"
"It hasn't left me alone!"
Oof. That hit hard.
This is one of my favorite episodes. I relate so much to Chandler.
Wow. Thanks for such thoughtful insight and for taking this time from your lives to share. This is the 3-4th podcast I’ve watched. Im always skeptical, as I grew up in the church w baptism at 8 and temple (Washington DC) sealing to Dad Mom 2 bro. I danced for many years and traveling on weekends started at about age13. I remember Mom saying that she hoped I didn’t always have class or rehearsal on Sundays and gave a weak protest, as if I would even THINK of missing dance class. I LOOOOOVED dancing and competing and learning and moving and breathing dance. All of it.Aaaaaanyway…
I’ll forever be thankful that I started going to non holy and irreverent practices on those Sundays to prepare to perform in Spain! . I’m glad I stood my ground and Mom was open minded, bc I gave my ALL to it and danced until I was mid 20s and then again in my 30s w 2 of my kiddos!
I had some bad experiences in church as youth. The young girls were sneaky and mean and allowed to be. Not all. Ioved a few like family. I was inactive from age 13 to 23, when my Grandma died. Mom and I knew we had to do Grandmas “work”. Our temple was in Chicago, now its Indianapolis. I, overall, when w the sisters… felt loved and cherished and heard and supported. LOVED) I’ll always say if I get to meet my “maker”…I’ll ask WHY so hard to have n keep love. WHY. SO. HARD???? Lol. What’s the deal w men. For real. LOVED camp. Music (I play piano so I couldn’t NOT have a calling….EVER.🙄 Thru the years I knew about - thru RELIABLE sources - or witnessed - youth molestation by youth being kept a secret from the law. Men know best, now now. I remember not EVER feeling comfortable in the Bishops office. Ever A few were real pieces of work. I witnessed budgets being blatantly wrongly and unfairly allocated. I’ve seen one of the Bishops (he wasn’t mine) get out of his car and come up to my husbands side of the car and scream at him for “almost hitting him back by the church” . I mean arm swinging in the air and pointing to where my husband had allegedly accosted him and nearly taken his life. Haha. It’s a school zone! Nice Bishop! Real nice Sam! Good job Buddy. Glad we decided to bring the kids out this Sunday. Really helped our already rocky marriage and feeling of love and safety. I’ve seen a Bishop (also wasn’t mine) gaslight his wife for years and leave her at age 55 for another woman. They married when she was 16 and had 4 wonderful girls that I babysat regularly. They are FAMILY. So yeah. I could go on and on. ***BUUUTTT! I was in tears when you talked about sex and the shame then excitement then shame then fun then… I can FEEL that entire section of this interview. (And several other things too) I see a person with huge faith and love for others. A true believer of making things work. I have a good slice of that also. I give a bloke a million chances. Not anymore. Lol. But this sexual confusion continues. Best sex ever when married to my kids dad. Only 1-2 since divorce in 2012. I’m fine. That tells me I really have to feel loved and really love and trust to be able to enjoy it. He’s the same way. And here we sit. Apart. 😕 Aaanyway…again…I can remember numerous sad times before marriage, just berating myself. Horribly. I’ve done it for years. I’ve jus RECENTLY wondered about asexuality. That’s for another time. Haha. I just want to say that I felt a lot of things today and I’ve never related so well with an ex Mormon story like with yours. I can feel the feelings that I KNOW you had when disappointment came. Over and over. I can hear the hurt when you tell about it. It’s a familiar ache. You are so good to people and can’t, for the life of you, figure out why they can’t just be as thoughtful, kind, caring, helpful, friendly, forgiving, as you. Right. Expecting yourself from others? I did for years. Still catch myself doing it. It sucks. It like we can’t fathom someone not thinking to call us when they knew we were down. Or just stopping by with lunch or coffee or a 6 pack! Or flowers!! Because that’s what we do! Used to! 😔. I’m really lonely. I’ve never said that in my life. I’ve always been completely content alone. I still am I just don’t want to burden my kids. Ever,,, . I HATE settling, so I just stopped. Friendships. Loves. All of it. I had to. Self preservation. I wish you all the love in the world. It is, after all, all there is, right?? ❤️ lol. That was sooo lovely when you said that at the end. Ive always told my kids that we are here to love one another, our religion should just be world love. And that our true test or most important or biggest etc, is how we treat others. That is all I’m capable of working out and worrying over. I know I’m loved by God. I know I’m good to people. Good to my babies. They are 16-18-20. I love them so much I could burst sometimes. Mucho amore.
Voluntary childlessness at 2:00::40. The church doesn't a great job at dealing with women who either can't have children due to infertility, or women who just choose not to have children. The Family Proclamation even states that children have a right to be born by couples. The whole rhetoric is eternal families. Singles who make up the majority of membership of the church are also left out of this plan.
We think of ourselves as intelligent enlightened humans and then we can believe in so much nonsense and allow this nonsense to rule our lives. We believe in religious books written by ancient backwards people and we will follow and believe it without any proof, knowing that most of it is so magical/supernatural that it is impossible to be true.
The stark realization that women in the church don’t have body autonomy.
They're just the baby-makers. Don't have any aspirations higher than that. Just keep pumping out the kids and be grateful that God is allowing you to even do that!
Come from North Idaho, losing so many friends to Mormonism hurt so for them. Very miserable life to have to go on with. God Bless you all!
I love that so many of us have this shared experience of reading Eckhart Tolle and “waking up”.
I agree Sam. Getting divorced was one of the best things I've ever done. I'm grateful for the time we had together and glad that we're moving on to a new season of life. It's not a failure. It's an ending and a new beginning. AKA life.
Great interview! Also loved Sam’s comments around the 2:28 mark. Thank you for acknowledging that morality, community, and healthy lifestyles can and do happen without religion. This is such an important point that many religious people consistently fail to understand.
I am not a Mormon but I have found this channel and several others I have found through John to be so interesting. I am usually into just true crime but it’s just something about these stories of people escaping and truly experiencing freedom that has my full attention. Keep up the good work John of educating everyone.
In 2006 I met this girl, we started having sex and she was my girlfriend and then she told me that she would like me to go with her to church one Sunday and
I said ok, and it was LDS. I was open minded and just went down a year path so that we could get married in the temple. I was 28 at the time. We were having a ton of sex and then as soon as we said we were getting married we stopped for a year. I joined the priesthood and finally got to temple marriage. The following couple of days I came out of my year long daze and realized i did not want to be married.
I tried for a year but then it ended. I have always led my own life, and that year I certainly gave up that freedom. She eventually quickly found another guy whom was mormon and are living happily ever after,
You share incredible stories, amazing the way mormon people live and how oppresive their religion is.
I used to be a Jehova's witness for more than 30 years and what i see is that we are not the only crazy people in the world 😁😁.
Thanks for helping others.
I grew up Pentecostal and it’s good to know other Jesus based religions can go through the same things I did, especially if they’re as extreme as the Pentecostal denomination is.
Chandler, I hope you work on.loving yourself. I hear a lot of guilt in how you speak about you. You are amazing, girl. You made it though alot and are healing generations of women who have sat quietly instead of speaking out!
"You're setting yourself up for sad heaven" - Dr. John Dehlin
LOL! I love it, I need this on merch please!
I am a cradle Episcopalian, and you are right, there will never be an "Episcopalian Podcast". The class that we did in our teens for confirmation was called "Confirm, Not Conform", and we literally spent one of the classes going through the Nicene Creed, and openly sharing the things that we struggled with believing (ex: the virgin birth, the idea of a physical resurrection, the idea that Jesus died for our sins as opposed to the idea that he died because he pissed off the people that were in power, etc.). By the way, none of us were shamed for our questions, and, while, some of our ideas were challenged, it was more just to make us think, rather than to suggest that we were bad or wrong. I have always been given the freedom to question and wonder.
That said, I did live in the Bible Belt, and some of my peers who grew up in more fundamentalist churches did cause me to experience some spiritual abuse when I was young, and I am grateful that my parents didn't raise me in that type of religious environment. Especially since I have struggled with dysthymia, anxiety, and double depression on and off throughout my life.
Sounds like a lovely upbringing.
I had a hard time with that comment- I grew up in the Anglican church and had similar experiences in terms of theological discussions growing up, and I agree that that's a huge difference. I was lucky to see really diverse examples of what it meant to be Anglican/Christian.
That said, when I left the church I lost my whole community overnight, as well as feeling like I had lost a sense of purpose in my life. And that did lead me to a very deep depression. Over a decade later I am absolutely still working through that loss.
I can only speak for myself- but I do know that Mormon Stories has a pretty sizeable audience who have never been Mormon, and I suspect I am not alone in finding it relatable and valuable content because of experiences leaving other faiths.
@@charlottehenderson7884 The Anglican Church is a bit stricter than the Episcopal Church on some things. Also, there is a difference between low church and high church, and the church that I was raised in was very low church, so that could have been one of the differences. There is a normal curve in every population, so I might have been on one end of the curve, and you might have been on the other end of the curve.
@UC2Sx9xlwswyqoE2j59mWrnA Just so you know, I have a degree in psychology, and I work in mental healthcare, and while I understand that a collaborative approach can help with mental healthcare, I am also well aware of the genetic link in the chain. I do best with taking SSRI medication for my anxiety and dysthymia. I have been coping with it most of my life, and some people just don't have the same level of serotonin that other people have. My whole family has struggled with mood disorders and anxiety most of our lives, and have needed medical support for these issues.
🍋 You may want to check out Dr. Julian Whitaker in New Port Beach on 🍇 🐟"Healthy Lifestyle's" podcast. 🐬 S.M.
Maybe Chandler should’ve pursued her FIRST question- “what about the dinosaurs?”. lol. Seriously, leaving another high demand Religion (Catholicism- in the 50’s-60’s), I relate to so much here. Thank you Chandler and MSP
Raised Mormon in Provo, studied 29 years ago to figure out if the church was true. And left 29 years ago. So happy to be Catholic the church Christ left us....
Another great story and episode. !!
Wow, I’ve been out of the church for a long time now (left when I was about 13) but my family is still Mormon (ok, so for them I’ll refer to it as LDS). All of these old memories have come back listening to this. I do get it, even after all these years, I totally see why, unless you’ve been brought up in the religion, it’s hard to understand how this all feels and what a pull the church has on you. I hate to say it but some of the members are kind of cruel when you present something that doesn’t fit entirely on “how it’s done”. My dad recently passed away and we were really close. I was devastated, as were my two young sons. My husband (not LDS) also adored my dad. It was terribly hard on all of us. It was tradition to have male family members as pall bearers in tiny family’s ward (don’t know if it’s church tradition generally or not) but I refused to have my kids do it as neither wanted to and they were just too young, just little boys. We were ignored and they were publicly pressured to do it which emotionally tortured them (they couldn’t deal with his dead body in there. It was too soon). They were also refused food by the relief society because they were crying in the car after the service. Apparently it was felt that they should have just sucked it up, acted like men, and followed tradition stoically because that’s how “it’s done”. It just seemed to me that their strict adherence to what they viewed as Mormon tradition prevented any exhibition of humanity. They were only in elementary school for heavens sake.
How sad Shari Thompson. So much control over people even when they are grieving over a loved one. I have a hard time understanding this concept as I have never experienced this in my religion. It makes me very sad that people have to go through this and the damage it causes. That is not Christianity!
I’m so sorry you went though that
Leaving Mormonism ruined God for me because it forced me to rethink every belief I've ever had. For the first time, I took a very objective look at the Bible and I realized very quickly that the god of Christianity is genocidal. Then I realized that if I've had such powerful spiritual experiences that lead me to believe so fervently that one false religion was the only true one, it would be wrong for me to assume that my spiritual experiences were any less powerful or valid than someone else's who believes in a completely different religion. By that logic, since we can't all be right about fundamentally different religions, then none of us can be right. I have total respect for people who choose to have religious beliefs, but it's not something I can subscribe to.
I wish I could truly express my feelings at the moment. I met my husband at 17 got married at barely 18 by 25 I already had 3 kids which I love deeply! But I’m 30 now and I struggle..everything is hitting me now..
I am still spiritual having left the LDS church, but I am extremely weary of religon, and I miss my Mormon Community....I miss the good parts, but I don't agree withe some of the LDS priniciples anymore, and I don't want to follow it.
Samantha is well spoken, love her contributions.
Both of these women are amazing! So intelligent, articulate, beautiful, and strong. I’m so happy for them that they broke free from the cult and that they are speaking out to educate other people, especially women!
It is a terribly sad thing that many LDS women have faced being sexually abused and then made the sinner. There is nothing quite like having to confess your "sin" while in the midst of PTSD. I hope that leaders will come to listen. There are many young minds in your hands! By their fruits, you shall know them....Utah's highest rate of pornography use, men abusing their own children because their marriage has no sexual satisfaction and they have been set up to make such a horrendous decision, huge use of antidepressants (women not happy), forced smiles, so many things are wrong. FIX the tree. Prune it!! Leaders if you care, change!!!!!
It is so hard to reconcile sexual abuse (abuse of all types really, I dont mean to exclude other types) and rape with any kind of religion and belief system. They all fail to adequately explain the suffering of innocents. I really relate to the later part of this interview.