It’s funny that death marks can do more than the immortals. Different editions have had the immortals doing different roles. Mini cheapest units for a while. Now they nerfed the Gauss reapers in warriors, you may see more immortal usage again.
Talking about the repositioning dynasty... Suddenly really like the idea of being able to Embark on a Monolith and Disembark that same unit from a different Monolith in the same turn.
"They weren't nerfed, the previous abilities were overtuned!" -> He says about an army that was struggling to stay at around lower mid pack in terms of performance... I get you are trying to be positive and that's great, but the reality is GW just took an army that was 45-47% win rate depending on which stats you go by and heavily nerfed them across the board. (With a few exceptions, C'tan are way tougher now, Wraiths are awesome), but if you go through the new book and count nerfs and buffs, the ratio is roughly 2:1 and they utterly gutted Necrons one major strength from Index 10th without giving them anything to compensate.
@@JoeHero40k Space Marines had Oaths nerfed and a few other minor changes and it was nerfed about 50%. They also got some extremely powerful alternate detachment abilities to compensate. Necrons have over 40 distinct nerfs in the book and their main strength wasn't nerfed 50%, it was nerfed about 80-90%. Also Marines were better to begin with than Necrons are.
@@ryancooper3629we kept the worst half of Oath. I barely feel like we have a faction rule. We already have good BS and now we have slightly better BS...yah...! But lost the part of Oath that made it actually dangerous. My point is SM codex came out and lots of people were saying the exact same thing as is being said about the codex nerfing Necrons. Give it some time and see. You might be like me and surprised that your faction is doing better than beforehand.
@@JoeHero40k I mean I get it, but the difference isn't one nerf. Its dozens of nerfs. Everything got worse with few exceptions. (Wraiths) I just can't see how the faction can do better when almost everything it had got worse. Also, for the record marines didn't really get much better from a purely meta point of view. They have sat between 45% and 50% for the entire edition so far, and still sit exactly in that spot with a bit of variance depending on which data source you go with. When I first read codex space marines (and tyranids) I was excited because, even though oaths was nerfed, most of the detachment represented the introduction of a range of dynamic playstyles while leaving the base profiles mostly in good shape. It felt full of opportunities. I knew reading it that the army would probably stay about the same in terms of performance. With Necrons I see some janky detachments that don't offer a ton in terms of opportunity coupled with a huge array of datasheets that weren't great to begin with getting heavily nerfed while the army's core competency was utterly obliterated. Not to mention so many of the strats are obnoxiously situational. Necrons don't get stuff like Armour of Contempt that is universally applicable, but instead get strats like a 4+ invuln on a vehicle in an army where most of the vehicles already have a 4+ invuln. Its like if Armour of Contempt read: "Target Astartes unit gets a 3+ save". Or things that are super hyper specific and will often never come up in a game.
So let me get this straight, Necrons were at 48% comp right where GW wants a faction to be, overall Necrons weren´t doing so hot though, but the Race felt right for once. But because we have detachements to choose from we gotta nerf the core rule that make Necrons, Necrons. Cool...
Well, the book would have been finalized probably before 10th launched so it would have been based on internal play testing. I'm sure one guy ran an invincible reanimation build and they panicked thinking it was OP and went to town on nerfing not realizing Necrons were mediocre at best. Imo if it was only reanimation nerf and other stuff got buffed it would be fine. But the book as a whole is 2:1 ratio nerfs to buffs. Most things got weaker.
Can you say that thing should’ve never been the way they were, however, the numbers on those armies that are considered oppressive are not super high. And I realize there’s many ways to play the game but let’s be honest most of the time the game is balanced around tournaments seen. Well, the weakening of some units is required. All the units took a hit. And almost no units were brought up. This is bad game design.
As a space marine player, specifically Blood Angels, I feel like the method GW went with GK could be used for Necron Immortals. What do I mean? GK “power armor” is superior to regular power armor, it has a 2+ save. Immortals should stay 1 wound with T5 and reanimation. I think they should get a 2+ save too!! Keep squad size at 10 but make them durable but 1 wound.
You are missing their the stock buffing playform to put stuff in you can do overlord and cryptek in their depending on what stuff you kit them out with they can get a 4+invuln or a 5+fnp or. -1 to hit and lord stuff they can be upgraded by szeras for an extra ap and then those guns become significant.
The Reanimator got brutally shafted. 12" I get was too oppressive and let you keep it out of LOS for the whole game giving your opponent no answer; but 3" was way way too far in the other direction. 6"-8" would have been more appropriate while still forcing you to keep some play and allow some counter-play with positioning. Warriors went from being solid at keeping their numbers up, made more consistent by playing the objectives which is what they were meant to do (their RP went to d3+3 for being on an objective) - to just a flat d3 that you get to 'reroll'. No benefit to taking objectives. A +1 at LEAST for holding an objective needed to exist. They went from being an anvil to a wet paper towel... Reapers are trash now and theres no reason not to take flayers. You are better served just taking Immortals now and shelving warriors entirely. The Royal Warden is now a joke. You took him for the Assault he gave his squad and could stick him in Warrior blocks with a plasmancer and you were able to compensate somewhat for the abysmal movement of warriors. Now he gets to fall back and shoot... Too bad with how paper thin warriors are now they probably wont survive in any meaningful way to even make use of it. GW gutted everything that made Necrons the 'undying legions' and had flavor/identity to the army rule. After this codex drop I've lost all interest to playing my Necrons and I'm likely going to shelve them for the foreseeable future.
Even though my Death Guard are a custom warband with a non-standard colour scheme, I painted Typhus and Mortarion in their lore accurate colours. If Mortarion shows up and decides to lead my warband, he’s not going to repaint his armour.
Paint your models what you want, ain't nobody got time or money to paint several different versions of the same army just to enjoy playing different versions of them. Plus with the exception of dark angels, you don't want your only army to be nerfed into the ground so much you can't play with them (looking at you 9th edition Imperial fists) I had an iron warriors Abaddon back in the 2000s, he still kicked butt!
I can’t wait for the hypercrypt detachment to come out. A turn 1 deep striking monolith that can take a 10 man squad of lychguard and charge them turn 1 is gross. I’m gonna lose a lot of friends playing that list lol.
Gotta say... not thrilled with this codex. The nerfs haven't been counter-balanced with some buffs. Some things got nerfed into the floor that didn't need it that badly. Reanimator buff is criminal. I love how the reanimator is either an autotake or you wouldn't take it for free. To not go into a tirade... unless these nerfs are paired with a hefty points, i see crons dropping down the charts V E R Y quickly.
The Reanimator was useless in 9th and became good in 10th. Was 12" too big? Yes. Would 6" have been perfect? Probably. GW: Nerf it to 3" and increase the points!!!!! The points remain to be seen, but it would not surprise me since GW always double nerfs things that they think are to good. At least they did not make reanimation as useless for multi-wound models as it was in 9th.
Necron's were only winning 45% of their matches and now all the nerfs and now we have to wait for point changes its the same thing they did with death guard
Necrons had a low win rate before the nerfs with the codex. Some stuff may feel better but we are in a worse place. The majority of units in the start collecting and indomidus boxes have been nerfed to encourage purchases of the other, less bought units. And we lost the Lord. How many Space Marine HQs are there?
GW has completely destroyed necrons. its one thing to say hey your reanimation is too good we need to dial it back a notch. its another thing entirely to completely strip the faction of its core identity to such an extent that other factions like GSC are now better at being necrons than necrons are. GW has really screwed over necron players by deciding to nerf reanimation into the ground rather than fix it properly. Hugely disappointed in GW for this trash codex. If they sent me a free advance copy I would set it on fire and throw it in the nearest dumpster.
Definitely would paint up characters in different schemes. I’ve been thinking of doing the same for my Black Templars. If I want to try different characters I shouldn’t need a to buy and play different 2000 point army. I already have those models for my Templars so why not just add in a character? I even have a librarian I’ll be painting up an using. And while technically using SM detachments I could use librarians and Templar named characters that’s one line I won’t cross 😂. Librarians will have to stick with playing other chapters that just happen to be painted as Templars.
Thank God for not being the most boring army to play against anymore. Besides the suck of the reanimator range and the annihilation detachment (only half of the models affected), the other nerfs are ok compared to all the new tactics we got.
Steve yes Meta gamers ruin hobbies and then are the biggest complainers then there are people like you who yes likes meta but you are self aware that going full meta is not healthy for the hobby. also you dont paint a Slamander blue that is heretical says the Tyranid player who has always had the rule of paint your army in any way you feel like go ahead mix the colors in the army as well i love that rule
I am someone who doesn't play necrons, but have played VS them mannnny times in 10th, I feel like any of the Necron's players crying about the change's to the rez orb and reanimator never played VS Necrons. It was such an OBNOXIOUS time playing vs an army that if you couldn't kill the whole unit of warriors/immortals/lych/etc in 1 activation that you were better off just ignoring them. I play DG and WE's and almost every game I played against my friends Necrons I wouldn't be able to kill any of his bricks. I could kill a few single models/characters and that was it and he wouldn't even usually play full reanimation cheese 🤣The few time's I played Vs him when he did use full reanimation BS, I literally killed like 1-3 units before he fully tabled me rofl
I just got into the hobby two years ago and one thing I noticed is that when something new comes out people always b and moan about it. It’s the most annoying part of the hobby for me.
It’s funny that death marks can do more than the immortals.
Different editions have had the immortals doing different roles. Mini cheapest units for a while.
Now they nerfed the Gauss reapers in warriors, you may see more immortal usage again.
I have an alpha legion abaddon and dark angel guiliman and raven guard veterans. All aboard the unified colour schemes.
Talking about the repositioning dynasty... Suddenly really like the idea of being able to Embark on a Monolith and Disembark that same unit from a different Monolith in the same turn.
"They weren't nerfed, the previous abilities were overtuned!" -> He says about an army that was struggling to stay at around lower mid pack in terms of performance...
I get you are trying to be positive and that's great, but the reality is GW just took an army that was 45-47% win rate depending on which stats you go by and heavily nerfed them across the board. (With a few exceptions, C'tan are way tougher now, Wraiths are awesome), but if you go through the new book and count nerfs and buffs, the ratio is roughly 2:1 and they utterly gutted Necrons one major strength from Index 10th without giving them anything to compensate.
Felt the same way with Oath of Moments and Space Marines. Seems to have turned out fine for SMs. Probably be ok for Necrons
@@JoeHero40k Space Marines had Oaths nerfed and a few other minor changes and it was nerfed about 50%. They also got some extremely powerful alternate detachment abilities to compensate.
Necrons have over 40 distinct nerfs in the book and their main strength wasn't nerfed 50%, it was nerfed about 80-90%.
Also Marines were better to begin with than Necrons are.
@@ryancooper3629we kept the worst half of Oath. I barely feel like we have a faction rule. We already have good BS and now we have slightly better BS...yah...! But lost the part of Oath that made it actually dangerous.
My point is SM codex came out and lots of people were saying the exact same thing as is being said about the codex nerfing Necrons.
Give it some time and see. You might be like me and surprised that your faction is doing better than beforehand.
@@JoeHero40k I mean I get it, but the difference isn't one nerf. Its dozens of nerfs. Everything got worse with few exceptions. (Wraiths)
I just can't see how the faction can do better when almost everything it had got worse.
Also, for the record marines didn't really get much better from a purely meta point of view. They have sat between 45% and 50% for the entire edition so far, and still sit exactly in that spot with a bit of variance depending on which data source you go with.
When I first read codex space marines (and tyranids) I was excited because, even though oaths was nerfed, most of the detachment represented the introduction of a range of dynamic playstyles while leaving the base profiles mostly in good shape. It felt full of opportunities. I knew reading it that the army would probably stay about the same in terms of performance.
With Necrons I see some janky detachments that don't offer a ton in terms of opportunity coupled with a huge array of datasheets that weren't great to begin with getting heavily nerfed while the army's core competency was utterly obliterated. Not to mention so many of the strats are obnoxiously situational. Necrons don't get stuff like Armour of Contempt that is universally applicable, but instead get strats like a 4+ invuln on a vehicle in an army where most of the vehicles already have a 4+ invuln. Its like if Armour of Contempt read: "Target Astartes unit gets a 3+ save". Or things that are super hyper specific and will often never come up in a game.
Feels like Luca is a bit out of touch these days.
I've never been bothered by people painting models in the "wrong" colours. Just paint away.
"Wrong" is better then none. And there is no such thing as wrong
Isn’t that just part of the charm of the hobby? I like painting like the lore but if someone wants to go wild that’s just awesome.
Ah the new lockouts are in. What do you guys think the app will look like once all the rules are gated?
Immortals should have 3 wounds like Tyranid warriors
Lords? Lords are gone.
Hey guys love these vids!!! Cant wait to watch!!
To Steve on the Blue Vulkan and Khan, id say take this as a Kitbash opportunity to make your own custom one. Lord knows i did.
So let me get this straight, Necrons were at 48% comp right where GW wants a faction to be, overall Necrons weren´t doing so hot though, but the Race felt right for once. But because we have detachements to choose from we gotta nerf the core rule that make Necrons, Necrons. Cool...
Well, the book would have been finalized probably before 10th launched so it would have been based on internal play testing. I'm sure one guy ran an invincible reanimation build and they panicked thinking it was OP and went to town on nerfing not realizing Necrons were mediocre at best. Imo if it was only reanimation nerf and other stuff got buffed it would be fine. But the book as a whole is 2:1 ratio nerfs to buffs. Most things got weaker.
Can you say that thing should’ve never been the way they were, however, the numbers on those armies that are considered oppressive are not super high. And I realize there’s many ways to play the game but let’s be honest most of the time the game is balanced around tournaments seen. Well, the weakening of some units is required. All the units took a hit. And almost no units were brought up. This is bad game design.
Steve, I agree with you. I’m gonna get some new Deathwing Knights and paint them up as Black Templars. Templars are better knights anyways.
As a space marine player, specifically Blood Angels, I feel like the method GW went with GK could be used for Necron Immortals.
What do I mean? GK “power armor” is superior to regular power armor, it has a 2+ save.
Immortals should stay 1 wound with T5 and reanimation. I think they should get a 2+ save too!! Keep squad size at 10 but make them durable but 1 wound.
Where's that terrain from?
You are missing their the stock buffing playform to put stuff in you can do overlord and cryptek in their depending on what stuff you kit them out with they can get a 4+invuln or a 5+fnp or. -1 to hit and lord stuff they can be upgraded by szeras for an extra ap and then those guns become significant.
Talking bout immortals…
Rez orb is screwed, reanimator is DOA and warriors are weaker and too much reliance on strats and enhancemants.
The Reanimator got brutally shafted. 12" I get was too oppressive and let you keep it out of LOS for the whole game giving your opponent no answer; but 3" was way way too far in the other direction. 6"-8" would have been more appropriate while still forcing you to keep some play and allow some counter-play with positioning.
Warriors went from being solid at keeping their numbers up, made more consistent by playing the objectives which is what they were meant to do (their RP went to d3+3 for being on an objective) - to just a flat d3 that you get to 'reroll'. No benefit to taking objectives. A +1 at LEAST for holding an objective needed to exist. They went from being an anvil to a wet paper towel...
Reapers are trash now and theres no reason not to take flayers. You are better served just taking Immortals now and shelving warriors entirely.
The Royal Warden is now a joke. You took him for the Assault he gave his squad and could stick him in Warrior blocks with a plasmancer and you were able to compensate somewhat for the abysmal movement of warriors. Now he gets to fall back and shoot... Too bad with how paper thin warriors are now they probably wont survive in any meaningful way to even make use of it.
GW gutted everything that made Necrons the 'undying legions' and had flavor/identity to the army rule. After this codex drop I've lost all interest to playing my Necrons and I'm likely going to shelve them for the foreseeable future.
Think you'll run the king with the overlord detachment?
Even though my Death Guard are a custom warband with a non-standard colour scheme, I painted Typhus and Mortarion in their lore accurate colours. If Mortarion shows up and decides to lead my warband, he’s not going to repaint his armour.
Paint your models what you want, ain't nobody got time or money to paint several different versions of the same army just to enjoy playing different versions of them.
Plus with the exception of dark angels, you don't want your only army to be nerfed into the ground so much you can't play with them (looking at you 9th edition Imperial fists)
I had an iron warriors Abaddon back in the 2000s, he still kicked butt!
I can’t wait for the hypercrypt detachment to come out. A turn 1 deep striking monolith that can take a 10 man squad of lychguard and charge them turn 1 is gross. I’m gonna lose a lot of friends playing that list lol.
I believe the Deep Striking is still Turn 2 onwards.
Yeah, turn two deep-strike for monolith, turn three to use it to deploy units.
Considering the insane amount of nerfs Lychguard have taken you friends should be thanking you for bringing them...
@@liveac3694 yeah, they dicked over Lychguard to bring back destroyers…
Steve really wanted to leave this vid! Like ten times...'well gotta go." **doesn't go** :)
I'm thinking of trying a lychguard warscythe unit with Orikkan in them.
He can't join LG anymore. Crypteks can only join Warriors and Immortals in the new book with one exception: The Technomancer can join Wraiths.
Gotta say... not thrilled with this codex.
The nerfs haven't been counter-balanced with some buffs. Some things got nerfed into the floor that didn't need it that badly. Reanimator buff is criminal. I love how the reanimator is either an autotake or you wouldn't take it for free.
To not go into a tirade... unless these nerfs are paired with a hefty points, i see crons dropping down the charts V E R Y quickly.
Agreed
Whine more. Every book needs balancing. It will be fine.
@@Stonehorn So then we agree. xD
Play better 😅
Yeah, I agree.
This codex sorta feels like paying GW to spit in my mouth lol
The funny skeleton man and his bodyguard are gone I am sad
The Reanimator was useless in 9th and became good in 10th. Was 12" too big? Yes. Would 6" have been perfect? Probably. GW: Nerf it to 3" and increase the points!!!!! The points remain to be seen, but it would not surprise me since GW always double nerfs things that they think are to good. At least they did not make reanimation as useless for multi-wound models as it was in 9th.
Necron's were only winning 45% of their matches and now all the nerfs and now we have to wait for point changes its the same thing they did with death guard
Necrons had a low win rate before the nerfs with the codex. Some stuff may feel better but we are in a worse place. The majority of units in the start collecting and indomidus boxes have been nerfed to encourage purchases of the other, less bought units. And we lost the Lord. How many Space Marine HQs are there?
Lords have gone, and Ankhyr is gone😢
only Space marines get characters to lead units they had to make space for SM 27th character option
GW has completely destroyed necrons. its one thing to say hey your reanimation is too good we need to dial it back a notch. its another thing entirely to completely strip the faction of its core identity to such an extent that other factions like GSC are now better at being necrons than necrons are. GW has really screwed over necron players by deciding to nerf reanimation into the ground rather than fix it properly. Hugely disappointed in GW for this trash codex. If they sent me a free advance copy I would set it on fire and throw it in the nearest dumpster.
Definitely would paint up characters in different schemes. I’ve been thinking of doing the same for my Black Templars. If I want to try different characters I shouldn’t need a to buy and play different 2000 point army. I already have those models for my Templars so why not just add in a character? I even have a librarian I’ll be painting up an using. And while technically using SM detachments I could use librarians and Templar named characters that’s one line I won’t cross 😂. Librarians will have to stick with playing other chapters that just happen to be painted as Templars.
These codices feel like they're rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, and not even doing a good job of it.
Don’t insult my Immortals lol
i love how you guys made your passion your business. i wish i loved something that much. lazt thing i loved like that was my ps1 in the 90s
You ran a disco lord? Why? Cool model but useless in 10th.
How dare he run something that isn’t “meta”!
Jesus
its far from useless
necrons got destroyed
Besides gimmick armies necrons are done.
Just paint them how you want. There was a time of goblin green bases only glad we left that behind also lol
The spider model was always trash
Thank God for not being the most boring army to play against anymore. Besides the suck of the reanimator range and the annihilation detachment (only half of the models affected), the other nerfs are ok compared to all the new tactics we got.
The only time I played a 20 warrior squad I took them all out with 10 Hellblaster in one round of shooting
yes nerf the hell out of hellblasters remove 1 or2 of their AP as well make them damage 1 and 2
Steve yes Meta gamers ruin hobbies and then are the biggest complainers then there are people like you who yes likes meta but you are self aware that going full meta is not healthy for the hobby.
also you dont paint a Slamander blue that is heretical says the Tyranid player who has always had the rule of paint your army in any way you feel like go ahead mix the colors in the army as well i love that rule
Great another shill review
Höj
I am someone who doesn't play necrons, but have played VS them mannnny times in 10th, I feel like any of the Necron's players crying about the change's to the rez orb and reanimator never played VS Necrons. It was such an OBNOXIOUS time playing vs an army that if you couldn't kill the whole unit of warriors/immortals/lych/etc in 1 activation that you were better off just ignoring them. I play DG and WE's and almost every game I played against my friends Necrons I wouldn't be able to kill any of his bricks. I could kill a few single models/characters and that was it and he wouldn't even usually play full reanimation cheese 🤣The few time's I played Vs him when he did use full reanimation BS, I literally killed like 1-3 units before he fully tabled me rofl
Actually I did, but the difference is I knew exactly what to use to kill them off, which was actually kinda easy.
I just got into the hobby two years ago and one thing I noticed is that when something new comes out people always b and moan about it. It’s the most annoying part of the hobby for me.
no