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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- Vintage retro teardown of an original Apple IIC
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So, I was getting ready for My sons nap time, he is 2, I clicked on this video accidentally without my headset on Dave said "It's teardown time!" My son Og replied "No, its not teardown time... its NAP time!" Adorable to the nth degree, thought I would share.
Too adorable! As a father of a 6yo, who remembers fondly how he was at each other stage, I thought you would likely appreciate a reminder of this memory in your email.
These old and still good caps are the reason why I only use these high quality caps today. Awesome teardown
12:35 " CHECK DICK " apple knows whats up
+Justagermannerd Looks like it says Choke Dick
+Justagermannerd LOL. Reminds me of the insert dick joke on Biggi's "We broke Surgeon Simulator" video. I lost it on that one.
sprybug oh yes, i remember that one xD
Checke Dick`dbiven(` d
I tell you this much, Woz knew what he was doing, and Jobs knew how to run a company. Too bad neither of them are still at Apple for one reason or another and it's become a directionless amalgamate of terrible design and hipsters.
Who's General Failure, and why is he reading my disk?
+Koppa Dasao General Failure works for the NSA.
+Koppa Dasao I don't know, ask Major Bummer. Or Captain Obvious: s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/bd/fd/6f/bdfd6f51678d0f19bb3ff7ef6cd1e92c.jpg
I think this is the computer industry's version of fart joke… ;)
EEVblog Have Major Bummer report to Dentist Puller, please.
+Koppa Dasao push the any key to correct
Love the teardown Dave, brings back a lot of memories. I purchased a brand new Apple II+ back in the day for a staggering $2k!!!. That would be both my first and last ever Apple product I buy. Not that there was anything wrong with the product at that time considering how primitive it was but it was a hard lesson about Apple's marketing wank back then.
Then, just yesterday I spotted that recognizable case shape in a pile of discarded PCs destined for the recyclers. I pulled it out and it was a IIe in pristine condition!
£7700 for an internal error? They were a ripoff even back in the 80s... :P
I knew about Steve Wozniak's plane crash but never thought to look into it. It appears he was flying a Beechcraft Bonanza, which if I recall correctly is often called the "doctor killer" due to inexperienced pilots not being familiar with the V-tail design (ie. doctors, with high levels of skill outside flying and can afford it, crashing).
Thank you for the trip down memory lane..Apple II, Trash 80, Commodore Pet, and the PDP8. Good days mate. This gal thanks you very much. - Annie
+SuperYtviewer Yeah, I love it too. Our classroom computer in 3rd grade was a TRS-80 Color Computer 2 with LOGO. It's the first computer where I learned that I was good with computers. Then in 4th grade with the TRS-80 Model III, is when I learned how to program! I had a Tandy Color Computer 3 in my teenage years for my first home computer. Loved it to death. Wish I still had one.
I was a sophomore in college. Feeling old again :-)
The "grinding sound" is the disk drive alignment procedure, which consists of winding the read-write head out to one end, and banging it against the stop. This was done when difficulty was encountered in reading a disk. I am not sure if this was implemented by the disk controller or in software but I suspect software, given Wozniak's design philosophy (why build hardware when you can implement something in software?).
The dreadful audio output is a testament to that. When an address between $C030 and $C03F appeared on the address bus, a single click was emitted from the speaker. A suitable timing loop would be crafted in machine code to create a tone (the Applesoft BASIC interpreter was too slow). Until the appearance of the IIGS that was the total of the Apple's audio capabilities.
Trouble with the floppies is not unexpected. Feeling a case of the nostalgia recently, I loaded up a pile of my old Apple disks. About 80% of them produced I/O errors. I was surprised that any of them were readable decades after being written.
Don't be concerned that none of the disks had Apple logos. Back in the day, it was customary to just copy a friend's disks, which were themselves copies. Copy protection? No problem. Use a copying program to defeat it. Don't have a copying program? Obviously the solution was to copy your friend's copying program. Don't have any friends? Join the local users group. Ah, the good olde days.
The older Apple II computers with a cassette interface also had a memory address you could access that would generate a click on that cassette interface, so you could do some rudimentary recording onto cassette that way.
i love how in depth you go into.... EVERYTHING! love it... honestly have no background at all in, software, or hardware im more mechanical (cars, engines...) but this channel is epic. I watch you ramble on at least 20 hrs a week, keeep up the good work
Now those are bloody good capacitors :-D
Dave, the apparent CPU jitter is not due to the 14 divider, it's that there's a long cycle every 65th cycle (it's 2 14MHz pulses long). This was done to keep the colorburst signal in sync.
omg did you actually just reference War Games? thank you so much. youve just made my day. im so glad someone else remembers that beautiful movie. i am though glad no one remembers the remake.
+Thomas Phew (phewTahr) Of course, WarGames showed an Altair/IMSAI 8080 S-100 system. It predated everything made by Apple by a few years.
Assembled in Ireland! Woohoo! :D That's why it still works!
Imagine saying that thirty years ago: "You can also hook it up to one of those Car Rearview Mirror LCD Reversing camera displays"
Loved my IIC growing up. I used to code BASIC after getting home from Elementary School. We had an Image Writer II, and the color monitor! While it wasn't the first computer I learned to program, It was the one I used every day in my youth, and really got into coding with. I was hand-writing code in school when I should have been doing other things ;) It's the reason I'm a computer programmer today!
I remember that computer.
Regarding the later IIc's that had the memory expansion slot on them, they did have 128k built into the motherboard, but with 4 4x64kbit chips instead of 16 1x64kbit chips. These chips were also used on the official expansion board, 8 of them soldered on with sockets for up to 24 more, resulting in a maximum total memory of 1152k.
Think you were doing this teardown literally on the exact same day I was cleaning out a Laser 128!
The IIC was better made BY FAR.
Umm, Dave, do you have any idea where the guy found this? I could swear this is my cousin's old machine, they gave it away to a family friend of theirs (the people that acquired it lived in Minchinbury NSW), anyway, if it was from there I just think it would be hilarious... So many memories of playing on that thing, our family had a IIe back in the day - still have it stored safely, I'd love to test it soon.
Seems to be a fault with the video, for some reason the bit with it being turned it on, appears before the bit where you tear it apart. Surely it couldn't have happened in that order?
Had a IIe way back when, those were the bad old days.
Correction: the 15-pin video output is not RGB. It is a proprietary "video expansion port" for use with either an RF modulator or with the optional monochrome LCD monitor.
+vwestlife Dang uxwbill cronies
+2dfx uxwbill cronies? But he's pretty cool
I have much love for uxwbill, just a small world seeing his little corner of youtube around in other channels!
+vwestlife You can Google for the pinouts. Some of the pins are proprietary for the LCD, but there is also analog video. Those pins are compatible with Mac DB15 video or (with an adapter) VGA, except for the fact that it uses a 15kHz dot-clock (NTSC composite frequency) that very few VGA (and no Mac) monitors can actually sync with. But if you have a VGA-type display that can sync to such a low frequency it will work.
The handle was not just here to carry the //c around, but also to heighten it nicely under the monitor stand, thus preventing it from heating as well…
who would throw that away? That's a collector's item right there too me. :D
That was fun, we used the IIe a lot in school and that was in 1994 lol we used to type our current events on them and print it out
I loved my Apple IIc . I still have it up in the attic. I ran a BBS from 86-89 on one and it ran 24/7 and never caused any problems. I upgraded the CPU and memory to 4Mhz via a daughter card. I recall having an issue with something during that updgrade and thanks to an apple contact I knew spent about 40 minutes with the designer of the motherboard getting it resolved! Can you image calling apple today asking to speak to an "engineer".. great little machine.
A IIc tossed in the dumpster. Breaks my heart.
"USS Enterprise - A Hi-Res Picture" oh wow, that's definitely something alright lol. Nerds from the 80's were definitely the best nerds.
Dave, a tear-down of the Australian Apple II clone the Medfly, seems appropriate after this.
Welcome in the under 301+ Club! Champagne for all
+Blackbeardjack99 Under 301 club may still exist but FYI the 301+ thing got removed recently. But hey, We're here anyway. Let's enjoy it.
I wish I still had my Apple IIc... both of them.
I still have the keyboard though, and it's the later revision with the Alps Amber mechanical keys... Those things are WONDERFUL. Not like the garbage hairspring switches not he early revisions. You said you loved the keyboard... Well, you have the cheap one there! Imagine that keyboard with something quite similar to Cherry Blues... The Alps Amber is like a slightly heavier press Cherry Blue. I love the clicky-clicky sound and feel of good mechanical switches! :D
He was lucky to come across that.
9:29 dude , this is blasphemy. At least get a damn CRT monitor to use with this computer
I'm surprised Zork understood lower case commands. You usually had to use caps lock when running the older Apple 2 titles
Memories… I built a Apple II clone. This is a real walk through the past.
10:58 - "It's got 128K of RAM, why does it have to keep reading the disk?"
It's an older Infocom game, it was probably written to run on the Apple II+ with 48K of RAM or less.
Later Infocom games will (among other things) detect whether the system can run in 80 columns and prompt you whether you want to use it or not (most software didn't do anything with the 80/40 switch) - if they're running in 80 column mode they'll also use both upper and lowercase letters (which earlier, 40-column-only Apple II models couldn't do)
The IIgs is what I had growing up. It was neat. Then we got the Performa 550. It was okay I guess. Then the iMac 333mhz blue one. A week later they released the vastly improved 400mhz versions. It was kinda sad. Haven't bought a new Apple sense.
Good memories
RS232 to USB, a small 6502 program and this is THE coolest keyboard you'd get for a modern PC or laptop :)
had one of these thing back in the day
The PC JR was fun but. I remember my mates dad bought him one and it had a joystick port and a cartridge port for games and programs. I remember his dad would go overseas and bring him home a whole pile of games on cartridge and we'd stay up all night playing them in CGA 4 colour brilliance
I can't believe that you missed the UC18 designator on the unpopulated sound section :)
That is some Steve Irwin level of Aussie happiness.
The 6502 used a two phase clock, so that could be what you're seeing. Also, I've used a DVORAK layout for about 9 years now. I just use a standard USB QWERTY keyboard and set the map to DVORAK in my OS. There's no need for DVORAK labels on the actual keyboard cuz you never look when you're typing. I've also known maybe 3 or 4 people who used DVORAK. Honestly I never found it any faster. It's more comfortable, but that could be from barely using QWERTY anymore. It takes some getting used to if I do have to use one.
My brother bought the Apple //c, I'm not sure if we still have it. Also bought a generic external floppy 💾 drive. Still remember the PR#7 command to boot from the external drive.
Dvorak!!! I use it, great for those who type a *LOT*. Woz uses dvorak which is likely why it is a feature :-)
Yes the were parallel drives but you could actually use both drives at the same time. I had several apple II's (II+ IIc and a IIGS)
+Mark Burton Well, you could have both drive motors spinning at once, but I'm pretty certain you could only move data to one at a time. On a //e, you could access two drives at once only if they were on different controller cards, but even then, only with really good software because DOS itself plays a critical role in drive operation.
I remember tearing down my IIc when I was 9, much to the dismay of my parents who then proceeded to do a tear down of my pants and give me a belting...
All Zorks etc use same virtual Z-machine system witch was made to work on all smaller systems of the era (C64, AppleII, etc).. There simply is no room for all texts on 64k or lower computers.
Besides the texts on Floppy are compressed.. You'd need at least 256K to have it all uncompressed and loaded on ram
For the record.. The 555 is used to read analog (paddle) input, the paddle pot changes 555 recrarge time.
I think the internet archive would love to have those floppies.
I use Neo2, which is based on colemak which is based on dvorak
I use the workman layout :) I pasted stickers on top of my powerbook keys. for my desktop, I just pulled them out and rearranged them. it'd be cool, if in the future, keyboards could be customized like that. now that I think about it on touchscreen phones, there's no reason for having a qwerty layout. someday, someone may come up with an idea to move the buttons around on the screen for an optimized typing experience. (on my phone, I use the qwerty... so, it's interesting how I don't even think about using the touchscreen in querty even though my keyboard is another layout -- they both feel "natural"). I keep getting the feeling that apple/woz was ahead of its/his time in some ways, and some of the instincts of its infancy won't be realized until the ergonomics of the hardware change. (prolly why the iphone was so successful). cheers
Dave, 13:45 before we see a screwdriver? Don't turn it on, take it apart!
I see 'micrsoft' on the board...
+brokenSCART where?
so it does, very weird.
That's for the BASIC on ROM, it was copyright by Microsoft
+broer61 Exactly. Hence, "Applesoft BASIC".
Microsoft wrote the BASIC for Apple // systems made after 1980 or so.
Dworak keyboard use here!
+AppleKnowsBetter keep working on your typing then!
+AppleKnowsBetter same here, but i only use Dvorak on my phone, so that I can change it more easy if someone else want to use it ^^
+AppleKnowsBetter Me too! Have been using Dvorak for 10 years now, never looked back. I never reordered the key labels, after all, dvorak makes it easier to touch type because the layout actually makes sense.
+retrotails WASD as far as I know dates back to the mouse+keyboard fps era, so much later. (I'm not a scholar but I did play FPS games at the time of change)
But games could be a reason, as they probably at the time wouldn't have had rebindable keys at the time (Atleast not the PC games I played), so you could end up with a hand stretching exercise.
+nimeq WASD predates FPS games by a good stretch. I'm no scholar either, but I was there! LOL
That CPU clock jitter has probably something to do with the fact that oscillator frequency has to be divided by 14 and not by 16.
>That CPU clock jitter has probably something to do with the fact that oscillator frequency has to be divided by 14 and not by 16.
It's about making the numbers work out for NTSC video timing. Every 65th CPU clock cycle is stretched by two cycles of the ~14-MHz master clock so that 65 cycles correspond to one line of video. See mirrors.apple2.org.za/ground.icaen.uiowa.edu/MiscInfo/Empson/videocycles for more details.
+Scott Alfter You're probably right. I am not familiar with NTSC standard at all (we use PAL here wich has exactly 64 us line period).
Judging by the size of the reset button - this is a very stable computer :)
Ahh, that 19-pin D-SUB Floppy connector reminds me of the 23-pin D-SUB RGB-connector on the old Amiga's!
Would be surprised if Zork II didn't run on 128k, it ran perfectly well on Commodore 64. *And* had actual capitalisation as I recall. =) The reason why it's reading everything from disk is that almost everything in Z-Code games were stored on the disk in small chunks and were loaded when needed - the game is only keeping extremely relevant data in memory. Too bad I don't know much more about the Z-Code stuff and really nothing else about Apple interpreter in particular, this is the first time I've seen it in action =)
The IIc did not have Dvorak outside the US. In Australia (and the UK) the keyboard button just did $ vs UK pound. You can that it is UK at 10:40 when it say INTERNAL ERROR $7700. Just release the button...
I wonder what the unpopulated LM311 and 555 timer were for. There was something called "FLASH" on the schematic, that seemed to be these.
Eheh... even Apple has Microsoft in it
The Apple II and III series did, anyway. Commodore, Tandy, pretty much anyone who had BASIC on their machines had to license it from Microsoft.
8:32 today's laptop bricks might not be linear, but my 120w brick is probably bigger than that and I still carry it around. Laptop makers should get their act together, high efficiency smps can be much smaller than they are
if i send in my potato computer could you bake and eat it on screen for us :P
It has a UK keyboard layout. Is that what Australian computers use?
+James Grimwood Austrslia uses the same layout, but upside down ;)
It's a U.S. Keyboard? Look at the @ " buttons.
No, it's a UK keyboard, the £ gives it away. Same with the enter key.
Odd. Like a hybrid then! But I guess these early 8bits didn't really follow any sort of standard!
+Ross Sissons yeah. it's Apple, their Mac keyboards are weird too ;-)
Hi Dave, very cool video...
What is the monitor you are using to display the video ?
As much as dislike Apple I've got to tip my hat to the designers of that machine it's stood the test of time.
I learned Basic in that one.
Good job. Liked the video z.
I notice on the front of the unit there is a spot that the plastic is less yellowed. It seems to say IIC. Did it used to have some sort of insignia?
20:21 does that say Microsoft under that black wire at the bottom center? WTF?
Microsoft wrote the basic. Their 6502 basic was used in the Apple II and C64. It was later ported to the Color computer (dragon), and other 8 bit machines.
+Joshua Walker Okay, but why silkscreen "Microsoft 77" on the motherboard? Microsoft didn't design the motherboard, just the ROM chip that stored Microsoft Basic. The chip above it says Apple. It's confusing.
+HUGSaLOT Valkyrie The CHIP above that contains the Microsoft-coded Basic Interpreter known as "Applesoft". So, every Apple 2 had Microsoft hardware built-in. As a side note, Microsoft was really big with the early days of the Apple 2 series. The original Apple // had 48k memory, and it was Microsoft that created the 16k memory expansion card, bringing it up to a full (for the era) 64k of RAM. Microsoft also sold early Apple // games like Flight Simulator.
Technically, it's not Microsoft Hardware, it's still Apple hardware that happens to have Microsoft-developed code embedded in it. If you look closely, right under where it says "Microsoft 77" it also says "Apple 77".
Apple is evil! Eeeeevil!
Why am i watching this? xD I use the Dvorak keyboard layout as my main keyboard layout by the way, it's still great.
I use dvorak!
Most LCD screens don't like the old 15KHz sync modes from old computers or arcade machines... They no doubt could handle it no problem, but they just aren't programmed for it.. :(
+10100rsn If it was using the RGB pins on the DB-15 video connector you'd be right, but the composite output shouldn't have an issue like that. And the Apple //c graphics mode uses the same frequency as text mode. The only significant difference I can think of is that there is no colorburst signal in text mode, but there is in graphics mode.
I wonder if this could be an NTSC-vs-PAL issue causing the display to not work in graphics mode. I seem to remember reading that monochrome NTSC can be displayed by many PAL TVs, but not when there's a colorburst signal present.
20:55 what?! above sound speaker, what does the microsoft logo here loooool WTF?
+Kamil Gorecki I believe Apple computers used Microsoft BASIC.
+Kamil Gorecki Pretty much everyone used a variant of Microsoft Basic back in the Day.
+Kamil Gorecki Couldn't wait to finish watching the video to comment or the video wasn't interesting enough to keep your attention and you fell asleep? FYI in case this fly's over your head, he mentions it in the video...
hey cool Video can i have the book with the floppys please
I got a ][c that I've never turned on, bought it sans PSU at a thrift store probably in the 90s, and then took me a casual year or three to scrounge up the PSU. Should take the 5 foot journey and fish it out of the closet and see if it comes on (more than likely most classic computers are veritable tanks when it comes to circuitry.
+Larry Anderson
Heh, ][c cost me 3.98, the psu was 2.98 (still has the prices in grease-pen) the big challenge finding a RCA cable... found,
apple //c message on TV... "check disk"..
ok go through my disk files ... I know I have some Apple Diskettes collected there...
found a late prodos system disk... and it works! What a stiff keyboard.
Now gonna have to find those game disks I have. Only missing one representative of the "Big 4" from the 70s (Apple ][, Commodore PET, Atari 400/800 TRS-80) - I don't have is a TRS-80. Someday when I find something cheap/compact enough...
Woz shaved a few more cents off the cost of his floppy drive system by omitting the track 0 sensor, hence the characteristic bzzzt-rattle sound at startup, the first job for the IWM is to seek backwards 35 times. On the Shugart floppy interface (found in PCs since 1981), there was a microswitch or optical sensor so the controller could stop seeking on reaching track 0.
for '84 that was pretty damned portable.
Use hydrogen peroxide to make it look like new!
Whooooooa!! You CAN,T play any Zork game with the lights on!
Love these vids. Thanks for sharing. Subscribed!
Excellent video, looks like I'll be taking apart my Apple IIC to clean the head on my floppy.
I was hoping you would point out the Microsoft label.
As for the handle, I bet that was Steve Jobs' doing. He thought that handles on things made them more "personal," whatever that means. When designing the original iMacs (the translucent CRT ones) he insisted on a handle even though it made the case significantly more expensive to manufacture and no one really wanted a handle, no one wants to lug around their CRT iMac.
What voltage is used in Australia is it same as Uk
whats happening with your lcd tv repair..did you order a T-Con
It's awesome seeing stuff like this. While they were trying to shave money where they could, there is still a lot of thought going into the design, still a decent amount of quality and longevity, it's such a shame to see what Apple have become now compared to the early days
He turned it on before taking it apart...
i have one of those i got it at with a monitor and power supply and mouse for $2 at a grage sail
Wow, how INCREDIBLY far we have come in only 30 years.
lol there was a unpopulated place where it says "555" close to the speaker.. must be audio generator
i cant wait 30yrs from now seeing you teardown laptops smartphones from today!
When people wonder why I have a bad taste for Apple. Let's just say I grew up with an apple 2c. While my friends had 386.
Oh man, the Integrated Woz Machine!
The IIc+ also had the powersupply in the system itself instead of that huge brick. It didn't do well mostly because of the change in the market at its time of release. The IIgs came out in 1986 but computing advancements were already starting to pick up speed and the WDC 6500 series was falling behind. The 3.5" on a 8-bit Apple II didn't help it much, either.
I think that was the first time Dave said "Isopropyl" right. :D
I still have my Apple ][c ... my first computer. :)
at 18:02. Between the IOU and the MMU, what is "W2"? Almost looks like spark gap protection, but backwards. Hmmmm.
*EDIT* Found the answer online. W1 is a track that can be cut, W2 is a normally open solder bridge. Jumperless design apparently. :)
I'd like to see more vintage equipment. The bigger stuff example amplifiers, tv's, signal generators, rare desktop pc's
I wish i could send one big ass Turner A-300 Studio amplifier.
But it weights a ton. And... well shipping from the Netherlands will be quite expensive :(
The Turner is really something, i wish Dave could do a teardown of my turner amp
It has Bakelite/epoxy pcb's huge spacing between components, hand soldered extra thick ground traces, mil grade transistors (germanium) stuff like that. And really really monstrous transformer
For the Dvorak keyboard, i worked with a guy that used the layout but with qwerty keyboards. Mostly to not get punked if he left his machine unlocked.